Tactical and ME reading help please!

Hi everyone, I'm basically looking for some pointers regarding my tactic(s) and adapting and improving them. A bit of background about me - I've been playing FM since Champ Man 95/96 and have always played using tactics downloaded from other people. That is until the days of exploiting the ME left us. Since then I have been cycling through trying to creating my own tactics, getting frustrated, staying away from FM for a couple of versions, before getting hooked again and starting the cycle over! I've probably read every major guide ever written on this site but my main problem is not being able to recognise why I play badly (or well). For me the difficulty of the game comes from trying to figure out why I am playing badly or well (and usually failing), whereas I think the difficulty should be about finding solutions to why you are not playing well.

This time I have started again as Tottenham Hotspur on Classic Mode. It's the end of February and I'm 3rd and one point off top. I'm not sure if that is good going or not, but it's not been particularly satisfactory for me as basically I have been chopping and changing formation and tactics all season. I've realised that if I want to be able to buy suitable players in the summer transfer window then I'm going to need to solidify how I play. Following the 12 step guide I have devised the following two schemes.

Going toe to toe with opponent:

Team instructions:

Retain ball - because I'd like to play a possession game

Push higher - to close that gap to the midfield. This is one setting where I believe I can read the ME. If I see attacks against me are exploiting the space behind my defence I know I should stop pushing up.

Sitting back and counter:

Team instructions:

Retain possession - I don't want to give the ball away any more than necessary.

Play narrower - To make me compact

I believe I have the players to make these approaches work. Eriksen is excellent in the AP role, as is Lamela at IF, Vertongen at CD, and Sandro at CM. So there is a good spine there.

I've imposed a 3-4-3 rule on myself regarding duties, so I always have 3 defend, 4 support, and 3 attack duties. In the Counter approach I have switched one attack duty from midfield to the AP position. This is because I didn't want any of the deeper midfielders running off. A couple of things are niggling at me here. First, I have no attack role in defence, which goes against the 12 step guide. I am adverse to having one fullback on support and one on attack, just because it feels imbalanced to me. I'm most likely wrong on that. Second, I feel like playing an AP in a counter strategy is wrong, because the creativity will probably come from the deeper midfielders as that is where I will most likely be winning the ball, if not further back. That could be completely spurious reasoning though - I have no idea.

I guess what I'm looking for is some feedback on these two initial approaches, and whether they make sense tactically. They do in my head, but I've already established that that has nothing to do with what actually happens on the pitch Then once I have them sorted I need to figure out a rigid approach to analysing my performance, because the "hit and hope" tweaks that I make right now are just as likely to make things worse than improve things...

Well it looks very crowded in the attacking 3rd. The striker will come deep to where the inside forward, playmaker and in one of the tactics CM (a) will be. Playing a Cm (A) isn't likely to help stability either. Playing with 3 players on attack duties in the AM strata will leave you with 4 players high up the pitch therefore your full backs will be under protected and the your CMs exposed. Playing with 2 Cms will also leave a fair bit of space between your defence and midfield which an opposition player could exploit.

I don't like this formation as it doesn't play like a 4-2-3-1 consistently well and it is too easy for it to become unbalanced.

Thanks - in a way that's a positive response because what you are saying are the weaknesses match up with what I thought were the weaknesses. Although I didn't pick up on the CM(a) being a problem.

I had the lone striker in a support role because I read that it was necessary in a 4-2-3-1.

I was hoping that the "push higher up" instruction would help to close that big gap between the midfield and defence - do you think that is not going to work?

Thanks - in a way that's a positive response because what you are saying are the weaknesses match up with what I thought were the weaknesses. Although I didn't pick up on the CM(a) being a problem.

I had the lone striker in a support role because I read that it was necessary in a 4-2-3-1.

I was hoping that the "push higher up" instruction would help to close that big gap between the midfield and defence - do you think that is not going to work?

The issue with the support possibly getting in the way of the AM is why I am not a big fan of play an AM on FM. Push higher up will certainly help. Playing with out anyone in between the lines doesn't guarantee failure it is just you have to work out how to deal with the problems it does bring. This formation isn't wrong but you have to make sure the roles, TIs and PIs work in conjunction with the spaces you leave open and the ones you aim to occupy.

The central midfield pair in a 4-2-3-1 should be defensive and solid - the attack duty will expose your defence as well as overcrowd your final third.

I'm not sure you have to play the lone striker on support duty in 4231. Infact having him on attack duty could push the defense back and create space for the AMC (in your case AP, who as a playmaker would probably benefit from the extra space).

-SnUrF

Sometimes instead of getting your forward dropping deep, they can pull laterally into the channels, it opens up more space for advancing midfielders.

Using that tactic I got a 4-0 win at home to Chelsea, then another 5-0 win in Europe then a 3-0 defeat at home to West Ham. The thing is I had no idea what made me do well in the first two games, or what was going wrong in the West Ham game. I figured the best thing for me to do is reduce the number of variables and simplify the game for myself. I had already read the 12 steps post, but today after reading through the whole thread itself I found something that may help me achieve my aims:

- do you prefer alter Mentality mainly by Roles? Go for Very Rigid

- do you prefer alter Mentality mainly by a mix of Roles and Duties? Go for Rigid

- do you prefer alter Mentality by Duties? Go for Balanced

- do you prefer alter Mentality by a mix of Strategy and Duties? Go for Fluid

- do you prefer alter Mentality by Strategy? Go for Very Fluid

Nobody told this guy he was wrong, so I'm assuming it's ok. Using this idea, I decided to go for a Balanced mentality coupled with a standard strategy. Then I'd change up my approach by changing the balance of Defend/Support/Attack roles. That simplifies the game for me and hopefully with fewer things to change in my tactics I will be able to see the wood for the trees. Does this sound like a reasonable approach?

With that in mind, I came up with this as my basic starting point:

I played 1 match just to see how it looked (I won 4-0 but they had 2 men sent off), and decided I needed the following two team instructions added to my base:

"Play narrower" Because there were big gaps laterally between my attacking players that limited passing options.

"Exploit flanks" Because I have a winger on one side and a WB pushing up on the other I want to use the width that they provide.

When I want to go more attacking I will put the leftback on attack duty. When I want to go defensive I can't decide on a good change of duties - any ideas?

I have a couple of specific questions:

If I want my striker to move laterally into space in the channels or flanks what instruction should I give? I'm thinking "roam more"?

If I change that attack duty in midfield to a support per llama3's post, where would be good for another attack duty? I'm thinking the most logical place would be the striker, but then I would have to rethink his role, correct?

Thanks for your help guys, I'm really struggling. I'll go with what I have above and report back with my experiences, hopefully positive ones!

EDIT: One more question - how do I encourage my team to switch the ball from flank to flank in an effort to find a free player?

Nearly at the end of the season now and I've more or less settled on this as my main approach:

It's been very successful, and I'm pleased with that but I am struggling against certain setups. I recently played Man Utd away and I couldn't figure out what tweaks I needed to apply to counter what they were doing. This save is about learning for me, so I have saved before the match so I can try and learn what I need to do when faced with this opponent.

A ran through the match and tried to note as much as possible about how Man Utd were playing. I am playing on Classic Mode if it makes a difference.

• Formation mirrored mine - a 4-2-3-1
  
• Right winger was sitting deep almost like he was in a 4-4-2.
  
• Normal width
  
• Very high line?
  
• Interplay between Rooney (AMC) and Van Persie (ST) was a big problem. I am playing high and narrow, shouldn't that deny them space? Although Rooney is in the hole he is being picked up so its not like he's unmarked.
  
• My pass completion is appalling. I think their very high line is neutralising the attacking threat of my supporting CM, the AP, the IF, and the ST.
  

By the 20th minute I was 2-0 down already. I made the change of pushing my d-line even further up to compress Rooney out of the game, and to exploit the flanks to get around the congestion in the middle of the attacking third. I changed the right winger to a winger from an IF. I also got the defensive CM to man mark the AMC.

Things slightly picked up after this. Half time it was 0-0. My pass completion had risen from 63% to 68%. My possession was still appalling at 43%.

At this point I was kinda out of ideas so I just let the match run out. I had plenty of shots in the 2nd half but no clear chances.

I think I need a plan b which is less attacking, but I don't want to change formation or the roles too much. So I guess team instructions are the way to go but what to use.... My plan a is high and narrow (I think that's a high press?), and my plan b needs to be a "Low block" but I have no idea what that actually means :o

Any thoughts appreciated!

Your understanding of the game is very good (probably from reading posts like crazy which is the way I learned too) but it seems like you are having a tough time translating that into your own tactic.

A couple pointers:

What makes the 4231 strong defensively is the box created by the 2 cms and 2 cds, by using a cm-s that box easily becomes weak when the opponent counter attacks. In my formation I like to use a DLP-d and a CM-D, this way they can also sit deep and recycle possession. This box is also further weakened by the CD-X, with the CD-X having such high closing down it's going to leave a lot of space behind him. In my opinion I prefer a CD-D combo 95% of the time, if you want to stop a lone striker that doesn't have an AMC sitting behind him then I will use the CD-X and CD-C combo, but only then. With your CMs pushing up high and getting caught out of position and one of your CDs being set to stopper I can see why Rooney and Van Persie had a field day, I imagine Rooney/VP gets the ball in the acres of space behind your CMs then your CD-X closes him down hard which opens up acres of space behind the CD for the other Rooney/VP to get behind him, through ball and then 1v1 vs your GK.

Now your attacking setup...really doesn't have any natural overlap, I prefer to have one flank have an attacking winger/IF (that flank has a supporting FB/WB) while the other flank has a supporting winger/IF (this flank has an attacking FB/WB). Also I think its only beneficial to have a WB on the side of your IF-A, with your Winger set to support he should have a FB-A.

For the final 3rd, a False 9 drops really deep and I think you'd be much better off with a CF-A with an AP-S or a CF-S with an AP-A. When creating a new tactic I sometimes draw out a little diagram of where my players will end up according to their role and duty. If I made a diagram with your tactic you would be able to see how massively crowded it is in the AMC strata.

Mostly agree with Drinkmixer, but as I'm doing this on my phone won't go into too much detail.

What I would add is that if you want to play with a high line you WILL be vulnerable to the ball into the space behind your CD's, so try and minimise this risk. A cover CD may help, but what helps most is stopping the through ball in the first place, hence why many in here couple a high line with Hassle or Closing PI's for necessary players.

Thanks for the responses guys that taught me a lot. Based on your advice I changed the system to this:

I decided against a DLP in midfield because I don't have anyone to play the role, and when I tried it the fellow drifted all over the place. I think I will trust the player to make the right moves.

I thought I was being smart by setting a CD to stopper so that he would challenge anyone in the AMC position, but I can see that was a bit silly now! I see how it might work against a lone striker with no AMC as you suggest - I'll keep that nugget of information in my pocket in case I face any lone strikers.

I also added "hassle opponents" to the team instructions, alongside "push higher up" and "narrow".

I replayed the game and there was much less of the Rooney Van Persie interplay so that was definitely problem solved there! However, the high narrow hassle strategy was just too offensive away to Man U and they had the lions share of the game ( although I fluked a 2-1 win). For the second half I tried to switch to a more defensive approach which involved the following changes to the TI:

• Play higher changed to sit deeper
  
• No more sitting narrow (as they could get around the outside of me easily)
  
• No more hassle opponents
  
• Changed to a counter attack strategy to lower mentality a little.
  

This actually worked quite well. What I'm wondering is what is the thinking behind a deep line as a defensive approach? For example I know now that with the high line the idea is to compress the space and hassle the opponent to win the ball back quickly.

Thanks again - I feel like I'm close to figuring it all out for the first time since....well since cheat tactics stopped being an option!

You can alter it slightly by adding a CM(S) instead of 1 of your CM(D)'s when you need a late arrival in the box, and a more expansive passer.

I must admit, that you have a great understanding of Strategic value, thumbs up

To your question

This actually worked quite well. What I'm wondering is what is the thinking behind a deep line as a defensive approach?

As you have stated correctly, the high line and hassling is there to tighten up and recover the ball fast and high up the pitch.

Now what does a Deep Line do?

The obvious first, the deep line stretches play from defense to center (duuuhhh), yet it also provides more midfield movement. On the Tactics screen they might seem far apart, yet when watching the match, you'll see the CM's on defend duty to drop into that hole and finding themselves with space to (maybe) perform some magic. More Space = Less Pressure.

Also a Deep Line will still let your defenders move forward, when the opportunity arises, yet they will do it in a more cautious manner, without neglecting their defensive duty too much (when in possession).

When your team loses possession by an individual error in midfield, their way back to the goal is shorter and therefore they might just have the time to get back into position, to not let the opponent become to dangerous in his attacking effort. Of course individual errors can always happen, even if you have 10 men defending.

So basicly a Deeper Line is a more cautious approach for wider play.

Hassling opponents is a powerful instructions, which can easily draw your defense out of position. From what i have learned to far, hassling should only be applied when you are playing a solid defense, without any extra closing down options. By solid defense i mean a strict line up, which is on line i.e. FB-S, CD-D, CD-D, FB-S.

Ah thanks Siron that's exactly what I needed to know! I'm in the close season right now but I can't wait to apply that to next season

EDIT: Start of the second season is going well - I'm playing with defensive line and width, along with counter attack strategy with good results. I've also discovered the joy of the "pass into space" shout! Really useful when I want the guys in the middle to get the ball to my wider players in space rather than trying to be intricate between themselves.

Back again!

Things are going well enough but I think I can do more. I was thinking about tempo. As far as I understand it tempo is basically how quickly a player will look to move the ball on when he receives it. I think I can easily spot that so I looked at the team shouts and thought up a couple of ideas:

If they are playing high tempo

I was select "mark tightly" and "stand off oppenents". My thinking is that as they will be looking to pass quickly anyway it is probably more efficient if I try to regain possession of the ball at the recipient's end of the pass. "Marking tightly" means I'll be close to opponents making it difficult to pass to them. By standing off I won't waste effort trying to harry them.

If they are playing low tempo

I "Harass opponents" so that they don't have time to think about where they are going to pass the ball. This is in combination with playing high and narrow to really squeeze on the opponent.

Do I understand tempo correctly? Are those shouts sensible?