Match Engine Strategy tactics and Counter attacks for those strategies.

Hey guys,

im looking to put together a document based on the new tactical overhaul of the game.

This document could be used as a reference guide to when you notice certain events that happen in the game.

For example, if your opponent is playing a deep defensive strategy and seemingly standing off your players because they want to soak up pressure and counter attack. Then what is the best counter to this strategy?

I would say from my experience of playing that moving the ball around quickly and patiently will ensure you dominate possession in this instance and implementing a control strategy i think would be the right move here.

What i would love to do, is put together a table that shows the counter of each piece of information you can see from your opponent.

Does that makes sense?

A bit like how in pokemon you have a table to show that fire is great against grass pokemon, but crap against water pokemon

Known Opposition Strategy

Counter

Stand Off

Counter Move

Control

Faster passing

Short passing

More patience

Now im not saying that the above is correct, im at work and i cant even remember the names of the shouts you can use. The best strategy for each could be debated until the cows come home but there would be some kind of general area of agreement i feel that we could agree on.

If you think this idea is cool then leave a reply to say so, if you think its a terrible idea then please let me know why! Maybe i have missed something, but i will never know unless you tell me!

If you like thiis then you may enjoy this thread i made. Lower League - Common Attributes of the Highest Rated Players

UPDATED: 26/11/13 16:14 GMT

i have made an excel spreadsheet that shows what I would do in certain situations.

This will hopefully be of use to some of you as a general guide?

Maybe i am wrong on a few things?

You have to run the excel spreadsheet, i havnt tested this in anything other than excel 2003! So let me know if it works ok

Football Manager 2014 - Counter Opponent Strategies.xls

Great idea mate. I enjoyed your thread on the 'common attributes of the highest rated players', so I'll be interested to see what you can come up with here.

Great idea mate. I enjoyed your thread on the 'common attributes of the highest rated players', so I'll be interested to see what you can come up with here.

awesome i have a fan. That is great news now if only i can apply myself to my work as much as FM14.

I am creating a list of FM14 players on twitter, have you an account Foot?

[...]

For example, if your opponent is playing a deep defensive strategy and seemingly standing off your players because they want to soak up pressure and counter attack. Then what is the best counter to this strategy?

I would say from my experience of playing that moving the ball around quickly and patiently will ensure you dominate possession in this instance and implementing a control strategy i think would be the right move here.

[...] Lower League - Common Attributes of the Highest Rated Players

Actually, in the example you provide, you're right about being patient, but IMO wrong about higher tempo (moving the ball quickly), I usually lower my tempo if I see I'm not being closed down.

This has two advantages, one: you have more time to pick out a player with space, or with a good run, and two: the passes are of higher quality because they are not rushed.

Other then this, I think it is a great idea to make such a table.

You can't do this, because it's not paper-scissors-rock.

The attributes of the players are more important in considering how to counter specific actions.

Furthermore, tempo is not speed of passing, it is urgency. Urgency is exactly what it says; how much of an "urge" to get the ball forward there is. Low tempo can result in quite quick passing if players are close together and have the right attributes (especially "dribble less" - as soon as they're pressed, they'll either hold the ball or pass), instructions, and PPMs (especially plays one-twos), and, at the same time, high tempo can result in slower passing (because there may be fewer, more direct passes in each move). This is why passing distance and tempo are linked.

Also, after thinking a bit - the last thing you'd want to do is raise the tempo if they're standing off. Standing off + counter means that they're retaining shape for very fast transition (something that is hard to do if you press, unless the pressing is extremely well organised). Plus, higher tempo means more through balls, and passes into space are nearly entirely useless against a team that's sitting back and holding... especially if your urgency is such that they're never enticed into coming out to press you regardless of instruction (IE, make a bad decision).

You can't do this, because it's not paper-scissors-rock.

The attributes of the players are more important in considering how to counter specific actions.

Furthermore, tempo is not speed of passing, it is urgency. Urgency is exactly what it says; how much of an "urge" to get the ball forward there is. Low tempo can result in quite quick passing if players are close together and have the right attributes (especially "dribble less" - as soon as they're pressed, they'll either hold the ball or pass), instructions, and PPMs (especially plays one-twos), and, at the same time, high tempo can result in slower passing (because there may be fewer, more direct passes in each move). This is why passing distance and tempo are linked.

Also, after thinking a bit - the last thing you'd want to do is raise the tempo if they're standing off. Standing off + counter means that they're retaining shape for very fast transition (something that is hard to do if you press, unless the pressing is extremely well organised). Plus, higher tempo means more through balls, and passes into space are nearly entirely useless against a team that's sitting back and holding... especially if your urgency is such that they're never enticed into coming out to press you regardless of instruction (IE, make a bad decision).

You make a great point, but i feel one that contridicts the first part of what you said?

I have misinterpreted what higher tempo means all this time! Unbelievable! Thanks for explaining it and showing that a slower tempo is what is needed to beat a well organised deep opponent.

What do you do against a team that are slow and more patient to build their attacks? Generally speaking and assuming all attributes are equal.

i have made an excel spreadsheet that shows what I would do in certain situations.

This will hopefully be of use to some of you as a general guide?

Maybe i am wrong on a few things?

You have to run the excel spreadsheet, i havnt tested this in anything other than excel 2003! So let me know if it works ok

Football Manager 2014 - Counter Opponent Strategies.xls

very interesting spreadsheet, and critical feedback. I'll keep an eye on this!

You make a great point, but i feel one that contridicts the first part of what you said?

I have misinterpreted what higher tempo means all this time! Unbelievable! Thanks for explaining it and showing that a slower tempo is what is needed to beat a well organised deep opponent.

What do you do against a team that are slow and more patient to build their attacks? Generally speaking and assuming all attributes are equal.

Well - yes. In very general terms you can paper-scissors-rock, but player attributes are quite variable, so it's never so cut-and-dry. I suppose what I mean is that sometimes the obvious counter to a strategy works, but not necessarily, so it's not really as useful as it might seem.

Against a slow, patient team, typically I deny them the ball. This is one of those areas where the paper-rock-scissors doesn't work though - logic suggests that to deny a team the ball who are patient with it, the best option is to press higher up the pitch, reduce the size of the playing area, and press hard. But you don't necessarily have to do that for very long - sometimes it's a good quick strategy to get a foothold in a game, but continuing with it just opens you up to the advantage Spain have had for a while: they have more in the tank for the last 10 minutes of matches because they've not been doing the pressing.

In truth, the only real foolproof way to combat a slow, patient passing side is to be better at passing than they are. That's why possession can be so important at the top level.

Typically if I'm struggling for possession, I start out by contracting the playing space (narrowing it, not shortening it) and moving at least one of my creative players into a wider position, or redesignating a winger/inside-forward/wingback to a support role and make them do the link-up play out wide. More through balls, but not more direct. This tends to force the opposing team to either drop deeper to guard against those through balls, or go narrower themselves to reduce the space for those through balls to go through.

It's also important to think about why they're winning the possession battle: is it that they press better than we pass? Are they closing space? Do we need a a different shape? But staying general...

As soon as/if we can force them to go narrow, we go wide and push up. Since I usually play a lone striker, sometimes I'll drop him into the AM slot instead, just to make our formation even more compact; minimum distance from front to back means it's very hard to press us vertically, which means our possession, even if it remains inferior in quantity, will hopefully be superior in quantity (because you're trying to break their lines).

If necessary I'll also stick on an extra holding midfielder, preferably one who is actually a box-to-box midfielder, since I can then shove him higher up the pitch if we take full control. It is however just as likely that the AI will reverse all of its decisions leading up to this point and possession will just swing back their way again...

It all depends how it evolves. Which is why the paper-scissors-rock thing doesn't really work. Or, looked at another way, it does work. Both ways. Which means it doesn't.

All you can do is reshape your system to probe the weaknesses that the other system has, and it's generally better to know what those weaknesses are and what your own strengths are than it is to set out a list of if-then notions. (In my opinion. It's a philosophy thing, when you get right down to it.)

ETA: I think too much about tactics.