FIFA Manager discontinued - German release soon?

Hey guys,

yesterday FIFA Manager Developer announced that the FIFA Manager series will not longer be continued. The 2014 version is the last one.

Now I just would like to ask what will happend with german licensing? Will there be a german release of Football Managers future version? Is this going to be a topic?

I am just curious.

Source: http://www.fifa-manager.com/home/blog/blog-article/n/News/show/offener-brief-von-gerald/

Fifa manager is unrelated to this and the german issue can't be discussed on the forum.

I think you're wrong stevie, this is very much of interest to FM fans even if only for the admissions made in that article.

Also we just don't permit discussion of circumventing the licensing restriction.

I think you're wrong stevie, this is very much of interest to FM fans even if only for the admissions made in that article.

Also we just don't permit discussion of circumventing the licensing restriction.

So, you're telling us...there's a chance?

It was about bloody time! Here's hoping SI grab the licence! Out of interest, what happened to CM? They've released 05, 06, 07, 08, 09 and 10, right? And nothing after that?

So, you're telling us...there's a chance?

Depends on SI but I doubt they'll give this sort of information away.

But there will still be Fifa 15 or whatever ? Isn't that the license too?

But there will still be Fifa 15 or whatever ? Isn't that the license too?

This is my understanding of the issue.

Let us hope this does not lead to SI complacency.

I don't understand the point of these exclusive licences from the point of view of the respective federations, think they only harm their own publicity this way.

But there will still be Fifa 15 or whatever ? Isn't that the license too?

Exactly. It doesn't matter if they make another FIFA manager or not, EA still hold the relevant licenses. This changes nothing really.

Exactly. It doesn't matter if they make another FIFA manager or not, EA still hold the relevant licenses. This changes nothing really.

Yes, but will they continue to pay for them if they're not using them?

It's all speculation and I have no idea of the implications but very interesting nevertheless.

Also the admission that SI helped knock them out of the market if I read it correctly.

Yes, but will they continue to pay for them if they're not using them?

It's all speculation and I have no idea of the implications but very interesting nevertheless.

Also the admission that SI helped knock them out of the market if I read it correctly.

They are using the license unless you think they're suddenly for some reason going to stop making FIFA games.

They are using the license unless you think they're suddenly for some reason going to stop making FIFA games.

Errr did you read the article, it says FIFA Manager14 is the last one.

Edit/ to clarify, I don't think FIFA needs or uses the same licensing permissions.

the question is more, does ea has a general license they used for FIFA 14 and FIFA Manager 14.

Errr did you read the article, it says FIFA Manager14 is the last one.

Edit/ to clarify, I don't think FIFA needs or uses the same licensing permissions.

Why wouldn't it? A license is for the use of player personal information/likeness and the one EA hold is exclusive. I absolutely do not see why it would be limited to a game genre especially as there isn't an officially definable distinction between the management games and the action genre. By general definition both are football games.

Why wouldn't it? A license is for the use of player personal information/likeness.

No it's for much more than that and can have different constituent parts.

When I better think about it, they are most probably right. EA SPORTS has the licence and can use it for any of their games, all together or separately.

hate for exclusive licences anyway!

No it's for much more than that and can have different constituent parts.

Which is irrelevant to the point I'm making. EA hold the exclusive license, why would it be limited to FIFA manager only and, more importantly, how? What's the distinction?

I think that fact that FIFA manager is discontinued as no relation to their licenses as FIFA will continue

I disagree. For example, The Championship is in both Football Manager and FIFA, as is La Liga and Serie A etc...

There is no reason, to me, why the Bundesliga can now not be licensed in future Football Manager releases.

I disagree with Aktsjon Mann. For example, The Championship is in both Football Manager and FIFA, as is La Liga and Serie A etc...>There is no reason, to me, why the Bundesliga can now not be licensed in future Football Manager releases.

I disagree with Aktsjon Mann. For example, The Championship is in both Football Manager and FIFA, as is La Liga and Serie A etc...>There is no reason, to me, why the Bundesliga can now not be licensed in future Football Manager releases.

Because no-one has exclusive licence for them, while for Germany EA SPORTS have a exclusive licence.

I disagree with Aktsjon Mann. For example, The Championship is in both Football Manager and FIFA, as is La Liga and Serie A etc...>There is no reason, to me, why the Bundesliga can now not be licensed in future Football Manager releases.

The reason for that is that the football league, Serie A and La Liga don't sell exclusive licenses. Bundesliga and the German FA do.

So do Holland don't they? Their leagues are in both FIFA and FM

I disagree with Aktsjon Mann. For example, The Championship is in both Football Manager and FIFA, as is La Liga and Serie A etc...>There is no reason, to me, why the Bundesliga can now not be licensed in future Football Manager releases.

The exclusive rights EA own prevent the Bundesliga being used on other games. The rights are EA's until the end of 2015, that's when the current deal expires.

Basically, the way I see it, the only way for FM to get onto the German market is if German football authorities change the way they market their rights. As it is now there's no chance anyone's going to compete for the license with EA because no-one has the financial means to do so. Outbidding EA is pretty much impossible.

Interesting.

If that's the case then I agree. It's a shame though.

Would it be possible however for SI to perhaps sub-license the Bundesliga from EA, given that the two are no longer in competition?

Would it be possible however for SI to perhaps sub-license the Bundesliga from EA, given that the two are no longer in competition?

I highly doubt it.

Because no-one has exclusive licence for them, while for Germany EA SPORTS have a exclusive licence.

I think FIFA has the exclusive license surely? That's why Konami nabbed Japan wasn't it? Pro Evo has Japan and FIFA keeps Germany iirc.

I highly doubt it.

Why?

EA exist to make money, not to hit back at former rivals out of spite.

As soon as SI are no longer a rival, and they aren't competing for the same gamers, any money that SI pay for a sublicence is money they otherwise wouldn't have. Pure profit.

If they turn that down, I can foresee annoyed shareholders.

There's a similar issue that Gran Turismo faces each release. As EA hold exclusive Porsche rights, GT is unable to include any Porsche in their games. In this instance, it is EA that hold the license that is then used by other studios under the EA umbrella.

If a similar exclusivity agreement was held here, the demise of FIFA Manager will have no affect on the arrangement held with the German FA.

It's possible that EA choosing not to continue is related to them not wanting to, or being able to justify the cost of renewing the license. It may just not be worth it for them - the license is likely rather expensive.

I expect that if EA aren't going to make management games then they wouldn't object to SI using it in that category (the license holders almost all distinguish between action and management).

I think the 2015 expiry is unlikely to be relevant any more. The bigger question is whether SI and the Bundesliga could do a deal which has never been guaranteed regardless of EA's position.

All of this is guesswork, btw - I've not had anything to do with this forever.

It's possible that EA choosing not to continue is related to them not wanting to, or being able to justify the cost of renewing the license. It may just not be worth it for them - the license is likely rather expensive.

Electronic Arts primarily hold onto the exclusive licenses to use them to full effect in FIFA Soccer, a game that sells multiple times the copies of any management game. Let alone FIFA/Fussball Manager, which never massively caught on outside of Germany, and in Germany, was awarded a measly BIU Sales Award for selling more than 100,000 copies in Germany each year, its core market by far. A guy on the official forums posted snippets of a booklet that shipped with a special edition in 2011, in which the current developers Bright Future clearly stated that by 2006ish, Electronic Arts wanted to ditch FIFA Manager already due to their new focus in games: the then next-gen consoles. That could be also read between the lines of the news of that time: It was Bright Future, an outlet based in Cologne, independently who were allowed to carry that torch, and EA didn't invest masses of buckets in the franchise, which remained a PC-exclusive niche within a niche from start to finish. Read: For EA, unlike Sega, their manager had never been a major product in the product portfolio. Which nonethtess is business for both.

For this year's and final ever iteration, a data update cut short of some features, EA thus even didn't renew rights with the DFB. And that meant complete fantasy third and fourth tiers in their home and core market, Germany. Those licenses were amongst the few that had to be acquired solely for the management game, as 3. Bundesliga and the Regionalligen aren't available in FIFA Soccer, and they aren't governed by the DFL, but the DFB. Likewise, there's a similar reason why German clubs despite it all were completely run by fantasy personae pretty much all throughout (there are no Klopps, there is no Hoeneß, no nothing). And there had never been officially a fully simulated World Cup qualifying campaign, and various other major international tournaments completely missing (Copa América, African Cup Of Nations, etc.). Almost all data that helped FIFA Manager reign supreme in Germany was simply "leftovers" carried over from FIFA Soccer. Likewise, the testimonials used throughout to market the game in Germany, with popular faces such as Magath, Tuchel, Löw and many more making the cover and ad campaigns, were cut. To still get the selling point home to Germans across that this was an officially licensed Bundesliga game, and that on first sight, EA simply replaced the popular faces with the sight of the Meisterschale on the German box cover. Still, this is no more business for EA than for Sega.

The press release at the time of EA's contract renewal with the DFL hinted at that the license was made available in packets ("management international"?), but it is a bit of a stretch to imply what these packets include without further knowledge. Even if one of the packets is intended apply for management games exclusively, that could already include FIFA Soccer's management modes. Such a packet is the only chance I can see Sega getting another shot, but to be honest, FM and Champ man before that hasn't been massively popular in Germany even when they still got released until about 2007. Partly that is lack of PR to blame, but then some of the press articles around that time borderline on the ridiculous and had me not trying the game personally myself until about FM 2008. That's what you get when pretty much all of the local press hints at FM being a freak game, an ugly Excel spreadsheet no match for Fussball Manager (or Anstoss, at that time) in any kind of way. Which, for all of FIFA Manager's strong points, especially in terms of match day experience and how it ties together with the rest of the game, that is transfers, player development, tactics, data base and man management, has always been a bit daft of an assessment, obviously.

I wouldn't hold my breath for FM suddenly appearing on German shelves again in the short-term. Until 2015 that is a no-go either way. Until then, who knows. And with the news of FIFA Man's death going places already in Germany, there are other people who will think about filling that gap that has now been opened up: After all, we're talking one of Europe's biggest PC and management game markets that will no longer see a management game at all in the short term. Amongst those I fully expect the current holder of the German-popular Anstoss license to give this another thought. It's been on hiatus for years, and its situation is roughly comparable to the situation of Championship Manager in the UK.

I doubt Ea will give up the licenses they hold.

Well - it wouldn't be unlikely for the license holder to have a clause in the contract stating that the licensee is required to use the license - no-one likes a license that's just being sat on. As there's a precedent of releasing games annually, you may find that EA effectively void their license by not continuing to release the game. Or potentially even face a penalty for doing so.

So if you then think about it in terms of the licensor - it obviously benefits them to have someone using the license and releasing a game - or they lose an annual revenue stream. That would also benefit EA - as they could potentially arrange to sublicense it to minimse their own losses. EA don't see FM as a threat to FIFA (quite rightly). The market has value for SI with a quality product that could do well - and they'd sure like to be in there before Anstoss, or anyone else. Suddenly, everyone's a winner - at least in terms of negotiations opening up.

For the record - football license rights are almost all divided into action and management and have been for years. Again, most licensors want to maximise revenue opportunities and understand the category pretty well. That said, the Bundesliga may be different here given the history of the products.

I'm certainly not saying to expect it, at all - the localisation would be a challenge enough in the time available, I suspect. But there's probably more willing to do it than you'd think.

Well - it wouldn't be unlikely for the license holder to have a clause in the contract stating that the licensee is required to use the license - no-one likes a license that's just being sat on. As there's a precedent of releasing games annually, you may find that EA effectively void their license by not continuing to release the game. Or potentially even face a penalty for doing so.

So if you then think about it in terms of the licensor - it obviously benefits them to have someone using the license and releasing a game - or they lose an annual revenue stream. That would also benefit EA - as they could potentially arrange to sublicense it to minimse their own losses. EA don't see FM as a threat to FIFA (quite rightly). The market has value for SI with a quality product that could do well - and they'd sure like to be in there before Anstoss, or anyone else. Suddenly, everyone's a winner - at least in terms of negotiations opening up.

For the record - football license rights are almost all divided into action and management and have been for years. Again, most licensors want to maximise revenue opportunities and understand the category pretty well. That said, the Bundesliga may be different here given the history of the products.

I'm certainly not saying to expect it, at all - the localisation would be a challenge enough in the time available, I suspect. But there's probably more willing to do it than you'd think.

As I said - license rights are almost always divided into action and management. So that's not actually particularly relevant here - if it doesn't happen, FIFA won't be the reason.

Depends then if management already applies for the management modes of play in FIFA Soccer. I reckon this is a typo, but here it says there was a deal with "FIFA and Football Manager" in the third paragraph: http://dfl-sports-enterprises.de/de/licensing.html No doubt this will fuel the many theories some Germans have on the situation. After all, Football Manager is allowed to ship with Bundesliga data (at least players and staff), a rather popular theory has it that there was a gentlemens' agreement between Sega and Electronic Arts: Sega would be allowed to use real-life Bundesliga players and in turn would not further try to penetrate the German market, FIFA Manager's #1 market by very very far.

I'm split on the issue. On the one hand, I'd like to become Football Manager more popular in Germany, as it allows for a better research pool and could rectify some of the early sometimes downright laughable press and undeservedly obscure reputation. On the other, Germany really is the only major management market which Sports Interactive haven't yet conquered, and where a start-up still has a bit of a chance. Realistically, nobody's ever going to compete straight with a dedicated 70+ full-time team dedicated to this niche, the masses of researchers collecting the data and pull away chunks of a community this big. SI have a bit of a monopoly themselves, if not through exclusive rights as such. Whilst I'm glad that FIFA Manager is gone now that it is obvious it never had the backing of its publisher, the German market is still for the taking for upshots. I can't imagine that anywhere else in the same ways.

edit: It must also be noted that Fussball Manager/Anstoss had been games of a bit of a different breed, at least slightly so, as the core has always been football. Yet there was a reason why Electronic Arts sold the early incarnations as "Total Club Manager" internationally, as contrary to Championship and Football Manager, players are involved in all aspects of the club, and also have a bit of a private life thing going on. I'm from the Anstoss mold of old, and I don't miss a thing personally myself, in particular as the financial aspects have never been any real deep, but that is something to consider. The least I'd want is for SI to open up and shift focus to cater to that audience. In fact, in an ideal world, I'd want both core ideas to fully split and head off into different directions, with the descendants of the "German" breed simulating the finances of the footballing world as deep as SI do it for the sports.

Still, the biggest Fussball/FIFA Manager fansites are already considering setting up sub forums for Football Manager, and have done so in the case of FM Arena already, a community consisting of more than 200,000 users, which seems the largest FIFA Manager community by far. SI probably know themselves how many people are playing the game from Germany as is, as it needs be actived via Steam.

It's all speculation though, isn't it? I doubt a single person registered on the forum will know exactly what EA's licensing agreement is, and whether it would be used in FIFA or not. Just remember we're talking about EA, who have less scruples than most developers. They'll most likely retain the licence, whether they're using it or not.

That would be sooo cool, if EA awarded a sub-license to SI for management games

However, shame that our FM will soon be without competition Unlikely to do the game any good...

However, shame that our FM will soon be without competition Unlikely to do the game any good...

While I agree that competition is always good, I trust the passion behind the peeps at SI to keep making great games ,and not use this as an excuse to do less every year.

Was FIFA Man ever really a competitor? Could you even buy it over here?

Ex Sega Matt knows more than most about this murky world, even though he has a real job now

Was FIFA Man ever really a competitor? Could you even buy it over here?

About 2003 I'd given up on Railroad Tycoon and was looking for something new, I bought FIFA Man, installed it and binned it same day.

Luckily my son bought me FM because after FIFA Man my inclination was that football management games weren't worth the effort.

I don't get the whole "competition" argument around the quality of the game. Yes, usually if someone/something has competition, it'll drive that someone/something to get better. But then FM has never really had any genuine competition, and they've done alright over the years.

I don't get the whole "competition" argument around the quality of the game. Yes, usually if someone/something has competition, it'll drive that someone/something to get better. But then FM has never really had any genuine competition, and they've done alright over the years.

Its this false notion that if FM had a strong competitor there would never be any bugs in the game. Clearly it has worked that way for FIFA and PES over the years....oh wait.....

I remember playing Premier Manager 97 on the Playstation and enjoying it A LOT. But hey I was just a young lad back then

Was FIFA Man ever really a competitor? Could you even buy it over here?

My thought exactly. SI has no competition. They are the only and the best at what they do.