Getting an "MC" to arrive late in the box

Ok, in short:

I have a great young striker:

Unfortunately for him, I have an even greater, even younger striker who is always going to get games ahead of Guest.

So I've retrained Guest to play as an MC so at least he has two positions to fill in for (I really don't want to sell him, he was one of my very first youth signings and has spent 3 years abroad getting a workpermit and, as you can see, he really does look like he could be a major asset to any team).

So, how would I best utilise him?

I imagine he'd be most dangerous arriving late in the box, to make the most of his pace and striker attributes. So, what would you do with him? How would you go about making the most of his talents?

Problem with playing him in the MC position is going to be his awful passing I think.

The first thing is right in the topic name . It seems like you want to make him someone in the mould of Frank Lampard or Stevie G because in their careers they did this to great effect and it is also beautiful to watch. If you want him to Arrive late in the box consistently , he must first the learn the PPM : Arrives Late In Opposition Area. The PPM will now give Guest the propensity to make this movement.

However, that is not it! To make sure the PPM is fully utilized on such a player his anticipation, off the ball and composure must be good enough . The 1st is so key because he must be able to read the game and its play ; it will help him to react better to scenarios where the PPM will be utilized , off the ball combined with anticipation would be great because it is obviously the positional movement of a player without the ball. I've said composure because the player must be able to keep his head when these chances come around and they will because you see with this set up , the opposition's defence is usually on the backfoot because the late runs usually mean the player will be unmarked as well as be an element of surprise in the attack . I'm not too sure but I'd say creativity too because he'll need that extra bit of vision to spot the opening to exploit with his movement.

However, I think his average technique and poor passing will let him down severely. You see now, I examine Frank and Gerrard's careers , their game is a very technical game , the way they strike the ball and get it into the back of the net speaks volumes about how great their technique is. I'm not too sure if the 2 have this PPM but I think tries first time shot would be great with Arrives late in the opposition Area , I've seen the 2 score great goals by arriving late in the box and then taking a wonderful snapshot in free space that ends up in the net but again , technique needs to be good in order for this to be successful.

Think you should just leave him as a back-up striker if I'm supposed to be honest because his passing isn't good enough to play midfield as said above. I think you can use him more as a Mario Gomez type of striker. His stats seem to suggest a player that is in the same mould of a poacher/out and out striker, that is; someone who needs to be fed and needs chances to be created for him.

Just my thoughts though . Some of the more experienced members may beg to differ.

He may well have been a better inside forward coming from the left side with a ppm for arrive late. Though a backup striker seems the best option.

Yes, his lack of passing and technique also worry me.

However, if the stars are to be believed he has somewhere around 2 stars worth of potential to fulfil, so I have him training as a Deep Lying Forward to boost his passing and first touch (can't remember if it does technique as well).

He may well have been a better inside forward coming from the left side with a ppm for arrive late. Though a backup striker seems the best option.

It's a problem of numbers again. I already have plenty of depth on the wings and don't want to displace anyone if I can help it. The one place I needed more cover was in MC.

On top of the technique/passing issues, I think you'll have a problem with aggression (which should read more like willingness to make an impact on game), bravery and positioning. The latter may not be a huge hindrance if he's got someone covering him but with low agg/bravery I think you'll see him bullied off the game in the premiership (esp as he's not got the technique to shield the ball or passing to offload it).

It's tough when you get attached to players but I always try and look at my squad as I would if I'd just taken over - you've got to retain some objectivity. If the guy does a job as a backup striker - then that's what he is. If he doesn't and doesn't really fit anywhere else - then it's time to let him move on....

I have an anchorman doing all the hard work, my other midfielders are mostly free to do what they want (though I do have one of the MCs ready to be more defensive if needed).

Regarding objectivity, I play the game to basically make careers. If I get someone through that I don't really have room for, I will do my best to make the room for him somehow. Getting rid is the very, very final option for me.

He's amazing as a backup striker, but I want him to get more game time so he can continue improving.

He strikes me as a poacher forward very much in the mould of Javier Hernandez. They have similar strengths (Finishing, Heading, Pace, Acceleration, Agility, Work rate, Off-the-ball) and similar weaknesses (Dribbling, First Touch, Passing, Technique, Creativity).

Given how poor his technical game is I think he's limited in what roles he could offer you, but he's already a very deadly poacher albeit for a slight lack of anticipation.

He actually plays as a targetman, and does so incredibly well so far.

I'm unsure how this guy would ever make it as a midfielder, he'd need significant boosts to his passing, creativity, technique and first touch attributes.

It's a hard one because you want to make something of him, but to me (if your forwards are that good) he's a backup forward, probably as a poacher.

Ok, lets put aside that hes clearly not set up to be an MC, that's where hes going to be filling in whether he likes it or not. What would you do to maximise his chances of making it in midfield?

My first two ports of call would be technique and first touch.

Ok, lets put aside that hes clearly not set up to be an MC, that's where hes going to be filling in whether he likes it or not. What would you do to maximise his chances of making it in midfield?

If he trains well, I'd put him on a passing schedule for a few months, if he's improving at a decent speed, I'd change it to technique and then first touch. Say, for a twelve month period. For the next year I'd consider putting him on an advanced playmaker to just round off his attributes. His dribbling could also be improved but it's probably not as important as the other three. I don't have the game on so I can't remember whether the 'advanced playmaker' role would improve that.

In my opinion that is, I'm sure other people would do things differently.

My first two ports of call would be technique and first touch.

I have him on heavy DLF training which concentrates on technique, first touch and creativity (well and some others), so hopefully he'll start improving there soon.

If he trains well, I'd put him on a passing schedule for a few months, if he's improving at a decent speed, I'd change it to technique and then first touch. Say, for a twelve month period. For the next year I'd consider putting him on an advanced playmaker to just round off his attributes. His dribbling could also be improved but it's probably not as important as the other three. I don't have the game on so I can't remember whether the 'advanced playmaker' role would improve that.

In my opinion that is, I'm sure other people would do things differently.

That's what I'm trying at the moment, except the other way around - I'm using the DLF training to round him off early, and then if some improve more than others I can then concentrate on specific areas of his game and see what happens.

His technique and passing have already improved by one point after only a few months, while his creativity has improved twice.

This is looking promising.

keep us posted Ackter - it's always good to see how other people's players progress (opens the eyes to possibilities...)

Rather disappointingly, I don't have the option to train a "arrive late in the box" PPM.

Any ideas what the requirements for it showing up are?

Rather disappointingly, I don't have the option to train a "arrive late in the box" PPM.

Any ideas what the requirements for it showing up are?

It's one of those PPMs that you can only learn from another player with it, it's not (I believe) an out of the box option.

That's what I'm trying at the moment, except the other way around - I'm using the DLF training to round him off early, and then if some improve more than others I can then concentrate on specific areas of his game and see what happens.

Yeah probably makes more sense. Playing him would allow you to use empirical evidence in deciding where he lacks. I think using statistics is important rather than solely looking at stats.

This is him a season and a half after the first picture:

He's coming on nicely, and I'm teaching him the "knock ball past opponent" PPM to bypass his horrendous dribbling skills.

Anyone else having trouble seeing the pictures? I've tried Firefox and an iPhone

Works fine on all those devices for me.

I love 'knocks ball past opponent' especially on players with high acceleration. I find it works nicely with players with a good first touch too as they start knocking it past the opponent on the first touch. However, be aware that doing this in the middle of the field can be harder due to lack of space and someone else closing it down.

He has good agility too, so he should do well whether he is being closed down or tight marked.

He's now outscoring my main striker, from midfield \o/

8 apps, 7 goals, 8 assists this season

And finishes the season on 33 apps, 14 goals and 18 assists.

I'd call this a success

Which team did you get him from Ackter? How much and when?

Free transfer - he was released from Los Angeles when he was 17. Spent 2 years at Beerschot before he became a USA regular and qualified for a work permit before he needed Belgian nationality.

Not a bad player to get on a free then bloody hell!

How have you been playing him? What system and what role in that system?

This is fantastic. I found it bizarre that you wanted to play him in midfield given his low stats for passing, first touch and creativity but the latest screenshot is massive improvement. Very good judgement.

Fantastic work in getting him to perform amidst a 'selection problem'. A point I'd like to make is this: It is irrelevant what his weaknesses are; it is more important what his team mates strengths are. The importance of selecting a player alongside him who compliments him is imperative. From the looks of things you have got this spot on. A case in point is my current Gladbach team. I am using Amin Younes as a CM. An unfamiliar position for him. His stats are woeful for this position however week in week out he performs. The sole reason why is because my midfield works as a team. Alongside him I have two of the following players: Nordtveit, Marx and Xhaka. I don't need him to be creative necessarily, nor do I need him to track back. All I want from him is penetration from deep - similarly to what Ackter wants (and gets) from Guest. The intelligence and movement of his midfield partners compliments Younes. His ability to out-pace (his main strength) his opposite number and create space for other attacking players is unrivaled. If he doesn't make that crucial pass, I don't mind. If his shot skews wide, I don't mind. The fact is he has forced their midfield out of position and forced their defence to back peddle. With players like Beister, Bony, Luuk De Jong, Gaitan and Sulejmani up front the opponents can't afford to be out of position.

Younes isn't getting the kind of stats that Guest is getting - I applaud you on that. Very impressive and, if you don't mind, I think I will reference this for Younes' development.

With 20 off the ball, 18 for both pace and acceleration, great technique, composure, decision making I am sort of baffled why you retrained him as an MC instead of an AML/AMR Winger or Inside Forward (I would've gone winger).

With 20 off the ball, 18 for both pace and acceleration, great technique, composure, decision making I am sort of baffled why you retrained him as an MC instead of an AML/AMR Winger or Inside Forward (I would've gone winger).

Id not class 15 as great technique tbh. Plus he can't dribble so regardless of the other attributes he'd be a pretty rubbish winger. An inside forward though, he'd make a decent one of those.

Last I knew Ackter played a 352 (this was a while back though) and the player above doesn't really suit the wide role for that formation.

Yeah I stopped playing 352 when my best X1 refused to replace Tiote in the DM slot despite having much better players

I'm playing 433 wide with an anchorman.

The reason I didn't want him on the wing is again because I had better and more promising players there at the time.

Turns out I was wrong about one of them, and he didn't develop into quite the world beater I thought he would, but he still performs amazingly and I'm nothing if not loyal to the youth of my clubs.

If I remember tonight, I'll update with the most recent pic of him, and the team I've built.

He's still second choice striker and I've also relegated him to second choice midfielder, but between both positions he still gets a huge load of appearances each season.

How have you been playing him? What system and what role in that system?

I didn't actually need to do much with him. Once he learned to knock the ball past his opponent he kept turning up in dangerous positions several times each game.

I think he may just be a regular CM on support or attack with me, I'd have to check.

Here he is at 27:

and his league career stats so far (roughly 2/3rds of his appearances are in midfield):

This is the team around him:

GK https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/65002_10152962466465268_782986592_n.jpg

DR https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/995406_10152962466325268_1516285437_n.jpg

DL https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1044540_10152962466660268_716506728_n.jpg

DC https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/1005958_10152962466425268_2145671900_n.jpg

DC https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1043883_10152962466580268_1529939442_n.jpg

DM https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1002130_10152962466450268_1060268711_n.jpg

MC https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1011927_10152962466530268_1813749430_n.jpg

AR https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/67797_10152962466695268_2145056299_n.jpg

AL https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/945693_10152962466320268_194767494_n.jpg

ST https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/969507_10152962466335268_1891659667_n.jpg

And finally my tactics, which I think will surprise quite a lot of people:

That's literally it. Everything else is done via shouts in-match.

You're right. That is surprising. I never thought a TM/A as a lone striker would work as he doesn't offer as much movement vertically or horizontally as the other options. Also, no Support role in the front three, but you're playing with short passing? How do you get your goals typically?

The vast majority come through the striker (I like making people get ridiculous scoring records, so my teams are always set up to give the striker as many chances as possible).

Had a quick look through to check, and most of his goals come from a "close range finish to round off a great team move".

Here's some clips. The first and last goals are pretty representative of how he scores:

[video=youtube;Ch2IYmpBKuI]

Nice thread and some great work on that MC!

What this thread shows me is that I am not getting the most out of my team or striker. As apart from the RB and maybe one of the wingers not one of your side would get into mine.

After seeing your goalscoring exploits on another thread I now know that I could be getting more out my striker (maybe to detriment to the rest of the team and/or results?).

The season before last I had just completed the full set. All 7 trophies available in one season, yet my main man only scored at roughly 1 a game, which as daft as this sounds left me a little disappointed!

I will post up my team tonight and tactics so that you can have a look. I want my striker scoring more!

The best players in my save wouldn't get into your team?

The pictures I've uploaded so far are all from when they were young. They're monsters peaked out.

Would you mind putting them up at their peak?

Yeah I will do tonight. I don't think I have any of them uploaded already.

Very nice team there (particularly the RB!) and great to see what you've done with Guest - what do his goals tend to be like? I would have expected a CM (A) role for him based on what you had envisaged.

GK: https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1069159_10152973055345268_946736099_n.jpg

DR: https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1045060_10152973055265268_861821246_n.jpg

DC: https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1002773_10152973054675268_938837486_n.jpg

DC: https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/994502_10152973055960268_2077576173_n.jpg

DL: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/993009_10152973055015268_1584740307_n.jpg

DM: https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/971676_10152973054580268_59134437_n.jpg

MC: https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/988635_10152973054935268_2001103345_n.jpg

MC: https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/971141_10152973056860268_1286167357_n.jpg

AR: https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/993915_10152973056470268_1785895606_n.jpg

AL: https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1005150_10152973054630268_1546037899_n.jpg

ST: https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1005609_10152973055720268_375516497_n.jpg

Subs:

GK: https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/995126_10152973056080268_1411968762_n.jpg

DR: https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1069200_10152973055565268_1766234716_n.jpg

DC: https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1016870_10152973056700268_752520782_n.jpg

DC: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1069224_10152973056020268_997438833_n.jpg

DL: https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/1001874_10152973054955268_1090536241_n.jpg

DM: https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1044809_10152973055605268_1784465335_n.jpg

MC: https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1013090_10152973056400268_649319123_n.jpg

AL: https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1044985_10152973054325268_1259724824_n.jpg

AL: https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/994824_10152973054250268_1132441548_n.jpg

MC: https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1069136_10152973054285268_1247038534_n.jpg

ST: https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/600539_10152973056415268_1324500930_n.jpg

Steve Guest:

Annoyingly, Boderone, Britos and Situm have just recovered from quite big injuries and are a few points off what they usually are.

Nice side! Boderone definitely would get in my side! Bolletta and Stranger probably would as well. And the keeper is decent.

Quite a few of my side have yet to fully develop, although it appears that when they get to 22/23 they reach their potential, or at least the development slows right down!

Martin and Nowak are going to be beasts. My captain Verlijsdonk has suffered a number of injuries and his progression has gone backwards.

GK -

RB -

LB -

CB -

CB -

DM -

CM -

LW -

AMR -

AMC -

ST -

A few of my better youngsters

Tactic