The subtlety of closing down

This is something thas has irked me for a while, since I could swear it used to be different on older versions when I started out playing FM.

As a starting point, I'm going to post a video of two Conference South sides having a go at each other. Here goes: One team is employing an "attacking" strategy as defined by the creator, and to hassle the opponent. This is Dorchester. The other, Farnborough, is to told to "contain" and to "stand off more", resulting in the closing down slider being turned all they way down for each and ever player. It is a video from FM 2012, but the "issue" still stands.

Now let's have a look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm2SXZZ29_g

If you think you know which team is which by watching the video: No, you're wrong. Totally. It is Farnborough playing in yellow and blue pushing the opposing centre back aggressively as far up as his own penalty area, ultimately forcing him to clear the ball. The same Farnborough that is told to stand off more.

The thing is: Whilst it's totally obvious if you increase closing down settings in PES or FIFA, which players increasingly hunting down the ball carrier in hordes, the closing down mechanism is triggered in FM as soon as a player has the ball. And that mechanism is likely to look very samey all the time. As soon as an opposing player has the ball, the ME picks a player that will start to close the ball carrier down. There is barely an exclusion. Which leads me to think that all the closing down setting influences in and on itself is which player is picked to perform the task at hand: A player being near and employing a higher setting is more prone to be picked than one with a lesser setting, which is logical. However: That is all. There is no way you can make your team actually stand off the opposition in areas you deem to be not dangerous. If the opponent has the ball, a player will step up, leave his position (and a gap) and close down. Almost always, and regardless of your own input.

This also shows in the distances covered at the end of the match. Result aside (Farnborough's goals came from set pieces and they were also able to get a few shots on the break, naturally): That one side was told to push and harrass the opposition whilst the other doesn't doesn't show much, even taking Dorchester's prolonged time in possession into account. Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me, but I think this used to be a tad different.

I will watch the vid later.

My own experience: i mostly use default pressing and often use hold off shout. I actually see it work as it is supposed to. My platers don't chase all over their half and i sometimes see the opponent pingpong in their own half while my team is waiting.

(Imo tackling is way to effective so again imo hold off + tackle more might be best overall)

Looking forward to other peoples experience/opinion.

My own experience: i mostly use default pressing and often use hold off shout. I actually see it work as it is supposed to. My platers don't chase all over their half and i sometimes see the opponent pingpong in their own half while my team is waiting.

Sometimes, yes. But in general, I just don't see much of a difference. It is naturally more prone to look like that if your players are sitting back, and no one actually being around the ball carrier. Which is also dependent on your formation, naturally. Which brings me to my next test.

Some might probably rightfully object to the extreme measures I have just undertaken, as extremes are bound to get irky results. I did it regardless: http://s7.directupload.net/file/d/3127/z723mniv_png.htm

So whilst there unsurprisingly wasn'a single shot taken in the entire match (bar a corner resulting in a goal prior to me changing formations to what you see in the picture, mind), with both teams "containing" and "standing off" more on tops, you still see the ball carrier being chased around all match all over the pitch. No matter how far away he his from the next player of yours (click for video). The ME almost always appears to pick a player who immediately steps up and closes down, regardless of input. That may be realistic in a certain sense -- bar Austria-Germany 1982 there is always a desire of the defending team to win the ball back. But in a way FM appears to go the opposite extreme. The slider might once have been misleadingly carried descriptions such as "close down in own half" and "close down over entire pitch". But there is actually no way you can really effectively let the opposition pass the ball around in their own half whilst you're rigidly sitting back and try to draw them out. Plus you cannot pile bodies up in your own third and just try to shut them out without anybody eventually stepping up and leaving a gap.

Another "extreme" test, the most noticeable difference I got was when watching a side defending their final third. I can't figure out why the above test had strikers chasing all over the opponent's half even if they were set to just stand off and drop back. Equally, I see an aggressively instructed working horse a la Tevez standing next to a centre back in possession and not doing anything equally to Aguero closing down in the same situation when he was told to stand off.

So I set up a Man City side artificially deep, so that they would always invite pressure. And a Chelsea side that tried to attack them. Naturally, every single shot taken was a pot shot from wide out, with Lampard doing the bulk of the "busywork" - from 30 potshots he took more than 20 - hooray for PPMs. But I found out that as expectedly the height of the d-line as well as the settings for closing down influenced how high up the pitch the Chelsea players were generally closed down.

Shots:

High d-line, max closing down: http://www.pic-upload.de/view-17619694/highdlinehighcld.png.html

Low d-line, max closing down: http://www.pic-upload.de/view-17619669/ldlineclosindh.png.html

Low d-line, low closing down: http://www.pic-upload.de/view-17619682/ldlinelclosingd.png.html

What cannot be seen in the last pic is that Lampard was virtually able to pick his nose for seven seconds before deciding what to do next. Not a single player even made an itch to leave his defensive position and to close him down. Needless to say, out of options and being Frank Lampard, he blasted it long. I don't know what to fully make of this. It seems that once a team has backed off all the way, they really tend to ignore players when they're told to stand off. And then you've got Conference South strikers going gung-ho all over the opposition's half even if they're told to do the exact same.

I also did the comparison with the demo of FM 2013 now. Whilst the defensive behaviour of FM 2013 is obviously much much improved over older versions of the ME - players actually defend in small units rather than always engaging the ball carier in one on ones - my overall impression stands. A player's position and thus d-line and mentality have much more of an impact on closing down movement than the closing down slider itself. As such, even with players told to "stand off" which minimall influences d-line settings but dramatically changes closing down ones, I see centre backs charging out of the box to help out their FB closing down an advancing winger, etc.

Also, what point is there to have OI's to stand off a specific player when he is likely to be pushed by packs of two or three regardless?