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Thread: FM2013 Not more steam please

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    Default FM2013 Not more steam please

    Hi, I want to ask for the developer of FM 2013 make posible to install game and play the game without Steam please , because I am tired of crash dump and to verify cache every day from the relaeasea date FM2012, so please in new FM 2013 do no more Steam

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    Its not going to happen, Steam is good.

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    Dont get your hopes up.

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    Not a big fan of it myself, and it was a pain in the arse when I first got it. On the plus side though, I reckon SI made the right move in it being a one-time thing, as opposed to Assassin's Creed games where you can't even play it if the servers are down (which happens at least every fortnight!) So whilst I agree it isn't ideal for us, it's a decent enough middle-ground until alternative "win-win" methods begin to surface.

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    Good luck with that. I hate Steam - detest the whole idea of it, but I accept that in the long run we're not gonna win that battle.

    That being said, I think SI will lose more sales to Steam next year than they think. The typical player of FM is not the typical gamer. A lot of us remember when copy protection was a codewheel, when detailed printed instruction manuals came with the game - the FM Old Guard is a tougher sell when it comes to this intrusive stuff, than teenagers who have never known anything different.

    What I'd like to see is old versions of FM/CM up for sale on the site at low prices - permanently. It doesn't cost SI anything to make more copies of old games that they own, and the people who really, really can't deal with Steam will be able to revert to an old version and play the game their way. SI makes money. Gamers get the games they want. Everyone wins, right? Why can't I get a copy of FM 2005 or CM 4 on here?
    Last edited by PG41; 27-08-2012 at 19:37.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PG41 View Post
    Good luck with that. I hate Steam - detest the whole idea of it, but I accept that in the long run we're not gonna win that battle.

    That being said, I think SI will lose more sales to Steam next year than they think. The typical player of FM is not the typical gamer.

    What I'd like to see is old versions of FM/CM up for sale on the site at low prices - permanently. It doesn't cost SI anything to make more copies of old games that they own, and the people who really, really can't deal with Steam will be able to revert to an old version and play the game their way. SI makes money. Gamers get the games they want. Everyone wins, right? Why can't I get a copy of FM 2005 or CM 4 on here?
    Well SI cant sell any CM games because they don't own the CM name and you can get the old FM games from amazon and other places.

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    There's nothing wrong with Steam, just those who use it.

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    Yeah, I remember old CM64 games and Win95 games that came with hugely detailed manuals that had answers to trivia questions that you'd have to pass during installation. But anyway, Steam's the most cost-effective anti-piracy measure that SI can turn to. There aren't really too many other options, and I'm not quite sure SEGA would be comfortable with them doing a U-turn anyway.

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    As mentioned countless times on this forum football manager is likely to always be on steam. I've only ever ha done problem with it and anyone who dislikes it can simply set it to offline mode.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomtuck01 View Post
    There's nothing wrong with Steam, just those who use it.
    Tom chipping in with his insightful comments .

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexLightsaber View Post
    you can get the old FM games from amazon and other places.
    Maybe for now. But those are just old copies being re-circulated, which will become more scarce if people don't buy the new versions because of Steamphobia. What about in 3-4 years?

    And it still doesn't answer the question of why they couldn't just sell them for $5-$10 on the site.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PG41 View Post
    Maybe for now. But those are just old copies being re-circulated, which will become more scarce if people don't buy the new versions because of Steamphobia. What about in 3-4 years?

    And it still doesn't answer the question of why they couldn't just sell them for $5-$10 on the site.
    Because of manufacturing costs. You're not going to pour money into re-producing obsolete versions of a game in the hope that there are people out there who still want to buy it. Sure, they can put them up for download, but they'll need extra bandwidth for that and they'd have to invest in new servers dedicated to hosting these games. It just isn't cost-effective.

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    Why would they bother pressing new copies of an old game? They're available on Amazon. There are loads of copies available, they aren't going to run out anytime soon. And any company will always try to push their most recent releases over older ones, why would SI be any different?

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    I think SI should offer their old games (maybe three or four years behind the current game) for a small fee direct from them as a digital download, maybe £5. They don't make any money from second hand sales.

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    I might not be playing FM 2013 at this rate, as my FM 2012 won't work on my new computer, and there is no-one lurking around on the bugs forum :P

    Steam is ok...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SCIAG View Post
    I think SI should offer their old games (maybe three or four years behind the current game) for a small fee direct from them as a digital download, maybe £5. They don't make any money from second hand sales.
    I bought CM 0304 to play it on my Mac--even in the manual instructions it says that a Mac exec file should be available when you open the game on a Mac. There's nothing. So I spent $40 on a game I can't play.

    Long story short yes, I guess that'd be good. Or better than selling games "Mac ready" when they're not. Digital download all the way.


    Regarding Steam, I never had any problems with it until last week--where I had to stop playing my save for an entire week because Steam wouldn't open the game. FM2011. That I bought almost two years ago at full price.

    I doubt these threads ever get taken into consideration, though.

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    From was released FM2012 both in mode offline and online mode every day I have to verify cache due crash dump, that is not normal, it is a error on the .exe file of the game and Steam

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    Oh yeah, that I'm already used to. Everytime I close FM2012 in my Mac I get a crash dump that I have to close. I told SI, nothing happened, got used to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pepe gotera View Post
    Hi, I want to ask for the developer of FM 2013 make posible to install game and play the game without Steam please , because I am tired of crash dump and to verify cache every day from the relaeasea date FM2012, so please in new FM 2013 do no more Steam
    Steam is not the cause of any crash dumps its your computer it seems, fix the real problem.

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    Was a bit unsure about steam at first as I had heard and read a few horror stories about it but once I got used to it and what not I think it's been fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PG41 View Post
    Good luck with that. I hate Steam - detest the whole idea of it, but I accept that in the long run we're not gonna win that battle.

    That being said, I think SI will lose more sales to Steam next year than they think. The typical player of FM is not the typical gamer. A lot of us remember when copy protection was a codewheel, when detailed printed instruction manuals came with the game - the FM Old Guard is a tougher sell when it comes to this intrusive stuff, than teenagers who have never known anything different.

    What I'd like to see is old versions of FM/CM up for sale on the site at low prices - permanently. It doesn't cost SI anything to make more copies of old games that they own, and the people who really, really can't deal with Steam will be able to revert to an old version and play the game their way. SI makes money. Gamers get the games they want. Everyone wins, right? Why can't I get a copy of FM 2005 or CM 4 on here?
    Why would they remake there old games with no steam? They have steam to stop people getting the game for free.

    you can still by there old games, on the likes of amazon.

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    Fortunately one of the few good side effects of the Win8/ Apple style stores will mean that Steam are wiped out completely.

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    I use a netbook, I need steam

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    Quote Originally Posted by InterWolf View Post
    Fortunately one of the few good side effects of the Win8/ Apple style stores will mean that Steam are wiped out completely.
    Err, why exactly?

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    I won't be buying FM13 if it's on Steam, as they don't give a **** about Mac users.

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    I agree that more communication about Mac and Windows Issues and how to resolve them need to be met.

    Personally on Windows I've had no issues. And I know people on Mac that have no issues (as well as Windows).

    Sometimes, it is down to the computer that's running the software, and some tweaks have to be made to how the computer is setup.

    That's just how things are, with all software. I use the entire suite of Adobe programs and I see nothing but issues with users in all levels of software provided from Adobe with both Windows and Mac - and it's almost always an issue with how the users computer is set up.

    So yeh, some times you will need to tweak how the computer runs. And SI have been good in helping with that. And Steam has worked very well.

    But unfortunately it can't work well for everyone, simply because every computer is different. And if you follow the in SI and Steam instructions things generally work out.

    I would like to see a bigger colloboration with Steam and SI - perhaps expert on both sides visiting both forums regularly and upscaling issues where appropriate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PG41 View Post
    Good luck with that. I hate Steam - detest the whole idea of it, but I accept that in the long run we're not gonna win that battle.

    That being said, I think SI will lose more sales to Steam next year than they think. The typical player of FM is not the typical gamer. A lot of us remember when copy protection was a codewheel, when detailed printed instruction manuals came with the game - the FM Old Guard is a tougher sell when it comes to this intrusive stuff, than teenagers who have never known anything different.
    I used to be like you; a Steam sceptic. But Steam is a free download and update service aswell as a store and player community. Steam hosts Football Manager games and updates on their servers and advertises it through their store. In exchange, Sports Interactive give them a cut from sales. It also does a good job in reducing game piracy a little. As you say, FM players are not the typical gamer so are likely not to be as tech savvy (A broad generalisation, but nevertheless...) which means anything that makes piracy a little harder is going to be effective.

    Steam holds all of your games in one place and has good customer service when there are problems (Despite a strict no-refund policy, they are quick to keep their customers happy, unlike EA for example). You only need an internet connection when you register the game, which isn't too much to ask in this day and age (Ubisoft's similar service requires a constant internet connection).


    Quote Originally Posted by PG41 View Post
    What I'd like to see is old versions of FM/CM up for sale on the site at low prices - permanently. It doesn't cost SI anything to make more copies of old games that they own, and the people who really, really can't deal with Steam will be able to revert to an old version and play the game their way. SI makes money. Gamers get the games they want. Everyone wins, right? Why can't I get a copy of FM 2005 or CM 4 on here?
    It does cost them money whichever way they do it. If they make physical copies they need to manufacture and distribute them. If they make them available for download they need to host them on download servers which costs money. They have probably already considered it, but deduced that the return wouldn't be enough to justify it.

    Of course, making them available on Steam would be the most cost-effective solution. So the people who really, really can't deal with Steam won't be any better off.

    Quote Originally Posted by InterWolf View Post
    Fortunately one of the few good side effects of the Win8/ Apple style stores will mean that Steam are wiped out completely.
    Hardly, Steam is a lot more than just a game store. By your logic nobody will need itunes anymore because of the Windows store.
    Last edited by Seismica; 28-08-2012 at 01:43.

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    no crash dumps when i exit, it just reopens.
    however you can do this.
    Load game via steam
    minimize
    task manager - close steam.exe
    play on

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    I guess this thread is running out of Steam !!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBlueAl View Post
    I guess this thread is running out of Steam !!

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    i skipped FM12 because of steam, i might be skipping FM13 too

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    Fm will often have more issues with steam than without it so please get rid of it

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    Never had no problems with steam myself, and now that my disk drive is knackered am happy to download via steam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seismica View Post
    This made me laugh

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    Quote Originally Posted by InterWolf View Post
    Fortunately one of the few good side effects of the Win8/ Apple style stores will mean that Steam are wiped out completely.
    No it wont, but it could mean when you fall overyourself to upgrade to win 8 you find you cant play ANY games who dont agree to pay Microsoft for allowing you to instal their software. From what i have read Valve are not considering updating their platform for Win8 as it stands, so anyone not using it will be able to use Steam fine.

    Anyway its all hypothetical at the moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SRL88 View Post
    Tom chipping in with his insightful comments .
    I like to be as helpful as possible!

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    for possibly the first time in history.. i agree with tom here...

    nothing at all wrong with steam.. only those have minor issues and make them into major ones...

    steam is superb..

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    I think i could personally count on one hand the number of issues i've had with Steam since Half Life 2 came out, thats not to say there are not issues, but personally i have avoided 99% of them. I can only remember one time FM12 didnt work for a few hours when there was an issue with a Steam client update i think, but outwith that mines fires up first time every time.

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    There are valid reasons to dislike Steam, and I personally wish there was an option to play without it, but it is only a minor irritation for me and I will get FM13 with/without Steam. I assume with as I believe it has been a success in reducing piracy and not reduced sales.

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    It's unlikely that they will go with anything other than Steam. There will always be some sort of DRM, and while it wasn't 100% for everyone (especially for MAC users) it was incredibly effective. More likely to stick with it, and learn from the previous issues, than pick a new one, and have to make the same mistakes again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomtuck01 View Post
    I like to be as helpful as possible!
    Well stop posting.

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    I don't mind steam as I've never had a problem with it plus every time I get a new computer I can just redownload my games. I have older games that aren't through steam and won't be able to move them over to my new comp without buying a new copy.

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    Steam was successful in doing a number of things SI wanted it to do, particularly leading up to and upon launch, so it's reasonably safe to assume it'll stay.

    It has clearly not caused too significant a drop in sales, otherwise I'm sure we'd have seen a rush-released non-Steam version by now. Hell, it may even have caused an increase, thanks to the initial lack of piracy and offers that have been promoted through the platform. I dunno- I'm sure someone would be able to find some vaguely comparable sales figures with a moment or two of research.

    Personally, I dislike it and would much prefer not to use it. However, I like FM more, so it's something that I'll put up with. I get the impression I'm not the only one in this camp.

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    I don't see why people have a problem with Steam. I've only had the game crash twice since release. I play almost every evening as well, so have notched up loads of hours of play.

    I like Steam. It makes it easier to play games online with my friends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by soccer.joel View Post
    Fm will often have more issues with steam than without it so please get rid of it
    I found things the other way round, since it moved to steam I have had little issue with it (actually non I can recall so far and I rack up 700+ hours on FM each year).

    I think the sales FM gains from steam far outweighs the loss of people because of it.

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    Quite a few people mentioning crash dumps in here. I think since Steam was introduced crash dumps have become a lot more of a rarity.

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    Steam is indispensable for people who lives in Brazil, like me, or people who lives in places where the game isn't launched officially.

    We don't have other ways to buy original FM without Steam, if we don't want to wait six months to stores get the physical game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawlore View Post
    Personally, I dislike it and would much prefer not to use it. However, I like FM more, so it's something that I'll put up with. I get the impression I'm not the only one in this camp.
    That's exactly how I feel about it.

    I don't like Steam as its only redeeming feature for me is that it allows me to play FM (most of the time), which is something I've been able to do perfectly well without Steam for previous versions.

    From SI's perpective though, the benefits are huge and I can accept that I'll have to put up with it to play FM.

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    Can't say I've had any real issues with Steam since I started using it at 15. So about 8 years. Analysing crashes of any game I've been using with Steam, I have never really found Steam itself to be the actual cause of the issue. If I'm being REALLY finicky, I could say that I find it a minor annoyance that I can't for the life of me get Steam to start in Offline Mode for times when my internet connection is down. That's about it.

    With the gaming industry becoming more and more reliant on digital downloading to cut down on distribution costs, platforms like Steam are going to be more commonplace, and I've yet to find one that's better. And Valve are at least a semi-respectable company, with generally good support, so I can't disapprove of SI's partnership with them in terms of distributing their game unless such circumstances arise that change my viewpoint.

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    I actually love steam now - i hated when it was first released when HL2 came out as i found it was just a resource hog if i had it running. Now though i have no problems with it and i've never had a problem with Steam with FM12.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veggeh View Post
    I could say that I find it a minor annoyance that I can't for the life of me get Steam to start in Offline Mode for times when my internet connection is down. That's about it.
    You need to close off Steam completely,not just clicking the "x" on the screen but closing it down so it is not running in the background,Steam cloud will then sync if you have been playing a game.

    We chatted about this quite a bit over on the Steam forums and it seems if you lose your connection whilst playing it will not start in offline mode but if you close it down and allow Steam cloud to sync it will work when you go to play next time,it will just ask if you want to start Steam in offline mode and you will be able to play your games....at least that is the theory we have.

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    If Steam didn't exist, I would have had to import FM every year, which would cost me 25%-50% more than how much I spend now. So more and more Steam please. It's one thing if you're based in the UK with FM around every corner, but I've seen one physical copy in a Canadian store in my entire life.

    It also might not beneficial for those who only play FM, but for the gamer it's definitely an avenue to get games cheap with the sales they have in the summer and Christmas.

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    Biggest issue with Steam is their sale. Always hooks me in

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    "What is the result of match 4 on page 32?"

    (One for the veterans...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by aj2kuk View Post
    "What is the result of match 4 on page 32?"

    (One for the veterans...)
    Not a patch on this

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    Absolutely nothing wrong with Steam, early in it's life it was buggy and very annoying but these days it's a fantastic system and i've bought all my games through there for the last 5 years and never had a problem with it. I personally honestly can't see how people have a problem with it, you can still create a shortcut for the game on your desktop and it's still just 1 click to get into the game, the only difference is if you don't have steam start when windows starts it launches steam before FM and that takes all of 5 seconds to launch and log in.

    Ah well I guess we're just going to have to put up with old dinosaurs who are 300 years old posting new topics complaining about steam year in year out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daylight View Post
    You need to close off Steam completely,not just clicking the "x" on the screen but closing it down so it is not running in the background,Steam cloud will then sync if you have been playing a game.

    We chatted about this quite a bit over on the Steam forums and it seems if you lose your connection whilst playing it will not start in offline mode but if you close it down and allow Steam cloud to sync it will work when you go to play next time,it will just ask if you want to start Steam in offline mode and you will be able to play your games....at least that is the theory we have.
    I was going to mention this. I had this problem and the cause is not closing Steam before shutting your computer down. I always do this now.

    There is a fix however, but it involves editing some hex values in 'winui.gcf'.

    For anyone interested, here is the fix:

    http://forums.steampowered.com/forum...1&postcount=39

    It worked for me, I had just moved into a flat so had no internet. I connected through my phone but the connection blocks Steam so I had to find a solution online.

    The offline mode issue is the only problem i've ever had with Steam.
    Last edited by Seismica; 28-08-2012 at 18:22.

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    I put up with steam because I want to play FM, but why is the price always higher in the steam store (and it never seems to reduce) than anywhere else that you can buy it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sandhams View Post
    I put up with steam because I want to play FM, but why is the price always higher in the steam store (and it never seems to reduce) than anywhere else that you can buy it.
    You dont have to buy it in the steam store, it just has to be installed through it. Get through Amazon or play etc for cheaper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sandhams View Post
    I put up with steam because I want to play FM, but why is the price always higher in the steam store (and it never seems to reduce) than anywhere else that you can buy it.
    It has been reduced 3 times in the last month on Steam,it was selling for €12,I think it has been on sale 4 or 5 times this year on the Steam store...you have to check it everyday for the daily deals and then on a Tuesday for the midweek deals and then again on Thursday for the weekend deals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sandhams View Post
    I put up with steam because I want to play FM, but why is the price always higher in the steam store (and it never seems to reduce) than anywhere else that you can buy it.
    Whilst I agree that on first release Steam is often the more expensive option, for games that have been out a while Steam is second to none for price.

    Steam sales are usually amazing for price (75% off etc.), though i'm not sure if Football Manager 2012 was in the sale.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sandhams View Post
    I put up with steam because I want to play FM, but why is the price always higher in the steam store (and it never seems to reduce) than anywhere else that you can buy it.
    To not undercut retail. Steam is only cheap when it puts things on sale, which does happen rather frequently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dafuge View Post
    Not a patch on this
    I must be old, I remember that thing vividly - from Premier Manager, right? My first management game on PC.

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    Personally I dislike Steam, I think it may not help with the slow death of my laptop over the past 12 months but it just seems to never work and slow my computer right down. It also does not work in offline mode, if I try to play FM without an internet connection it keeps trying to update itself then showing the no internet connection error, then I put it in offline mode then it updates it self. This goes on untill I throw my laptop threw the window.

    Hopefully a new computer for FM13 should sort of solve the problem, besids from that Im pretty indifferent I rarely ever notice its running untill it either pops up with someone online or a acheivment.

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    I remember that too - which game was that? One of the Premier Manager games?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snipergod View Post
    Absolutely nothing wrong with Steam, early in it's life it was buggy and very annoying but these days it's a fantastic system and i've bought all my games through there for the last 5 years and never had a problem with it. I personally honestly can't see how people have a problem with it, you can still create a shortcut for the game on your desktop and it's still just 1 click to get into the game, the only difference is if you don't have steam start when windows starts it launches steam before FM and that takes all of 5 seconds to launch and log in.

    Ah well I guess we're just going to have to put up with old dinosaurs who are 300 years old posting new topics complaining about steam year in year out.
    Seems to me that most people either like, or don't have a problem with, Steam until/unless they encounter an annoying problem with it or their internet connection.

    Be careful what you post lest it happen to you.

    Cheers,
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    Pft go grab your walking stick and get movin granda.

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    I personaly have not had a problem playing FM 13 using steam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lostpoolie2 View Post
    I personaly have not had a problem playing FM 13 using steam.
    Nobody has had a problem playing FM13 with Steam, therefore Steam is brilliant!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Q.P.R View Post
    I like many 1000s of others will no longer buy FM because of steam .

    Its a real shame that we are now seeing the end of FM .. we all know that sales of FM2012 fell by a mass amount . and there has been many staff members that have now left SI .

    It is now all over for us FM fans ... the big fall from grace has started .. of course it is not all beacuse of steam . its down too many factors
    We'd very much appreciate that you didn't just make things up. Nothing you've posted there is even remotely true.

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    I have never had a problem with steam before. being from Canada im very pleased that I can buy the game via steam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Q.P.R View Post
    we all know that sales of FM2012 fell by a mass amount
    Retail sales are going up. Digital sales are unfortunately not documented publicly.

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    If you're getting crash dumps every day then it is 100% your PC which is the problem and not steam, I haven't had a single one.

    That being said, I don't like having to use Steam, and it didn't solve the problem they wanted it to anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Widzew View Post
    I have never had a problem with steam before. being from Canada im very pleased that I can buy the game via steam.
    I am with you and Rancer, on this one, in New Zealand the game is really hard to get in a store, or even through an online store. One year I ordered it from a games store, and they gave me the release date (Same as UK), 2 days before then they ring me and say it is delayed be out a week after UK, then 2 days before that they ring to say only 3 copies are coming and they have 6 pre-orders your order has been cancelled. With Steam it is about 70% of the instore price in New Zealand, it is here a week earlier, and a lot of the UK based online stores won't ship to NZ or will charge ridiculous fees to do it. Steam all the way.

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    I just don't like the fact that Steam slows down my computer a lot for some reason.

    Now I have it, I don't have a problem with what it does or what it is trying to accomplish, I just wish it didn't slow my system down and do strange things in the background

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    Personally I really like Steam it works really well for me over last few years now.
    http://www.theroad2success.co.uk - My simulation game, which puts you in control of a music label.

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    People keep saying how Steam is such a bad thing as it impacts sales negatively.

    If I remember back to January, when I decided I wanted to buy a football manager game. LMA doesn't exist anymore, which basically left me with a choice between Football Manager and Fifa Manager. I use Steam as it's a place for all of my games. EA started up their own version to cash in on the idea, thereby removing all of their latest products from Steam. This was counter productive, because instead of one program with all of my games in one place, EA want me to have two programs running on my computer to play my games (As I use Steam for chat). I decided against Fifa Manager almost instantly. I then considered whether buying Football Manager was worth it, because as a general rule I don't buy games that have intrusive DRM. I know Ubisoft is the most notorious publisher for this, but there are others.

    In short, I most likely wouldn't have bought Football Manager if it wasn't on Steam. There is at least one sale gained through their decision to go with Steam, rather than some intrusive/rootkit third party DRM (And in the fight against piracy it's one or the other for most companies).

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    I have nerver had a problem played FM11 or 12 on Steam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Q.P.R View Post
    I like many 1000s of others will no longer buy FM because of steam .

    Its a real shame that we are now seeing the end of FM .. we all know that sales of FM2012 fell by a mass amount . and there has been many staff members that have now left SI .

    It is now all over for us FM fans ... the big fall from grace has started .. of course it is not all beacuse of steam . its down too many factors
    This is mostly the opposite of the truth. Sales have increased, SI have taken on loads of new staff, and FM is going to get really good in the next few years. I'm not a big fan of Steam itself, but the consequences of moving to Steam are overwhelmingly positive for SI and the majority of customers. If you decide not to buy FM because of Steam, then you are being foolish.
    Quote Originally Posted by woody2goody View Post
    I just don't like the fact that Steam slows down my computer a lot for some reason.

    Now I have it, I don't have a problem with what it does or what it is trying to accomplish, I just wish it didn't slow my system down and do strange things in the background
    Unless you are using a Mac or a very old PC (I know people say a PC from 2 years ago is old, but I mean 10 or 12 years ago) then Steam shouldn't be affecting performance very much, except perhaps when it updates (which is too often for my liking). My only idea is that maybe your internet connection is strained- does offline mode help?

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    Steam is fine if you want to use it to get in on the sales. I have real problems with using it as the only way to play a game. Many of you might not play other games but it is setting us on a bad road where 3rd party software is included in games we play. At some point in time it will be included in every software product we buy. It's not like we don't jump through hoops to play something we pay money for to start with signing agreements before even installing software as it is. This is a bad road to take and I will be staying with FM 11 till the online game I have running ends and they all move on. Then FM will be dead to me as single player now is not as much fun. I have no problem with steam is an option but it needs to be an option. Even if I have to wait a few month till a retail none steam version is available is a better option. (This protects SI from pre-launch piracy while giving the option of playing the game as I decide. After all that's what the steam only version was supposed to do.)

    Hell I would even wait till the Jan update/patch. Just as long as I am not forced in to using 3rd party software.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SCIAG View Post
    This is mostly the opposite of the truth. Sales have increased, SI have taken on loads of new staff, and FM is going to get really good in the next few years. I'm not a big fan of Steam itself, but the consequences of moving to Steam are overwhelmingly positive for SI and the majority of customers. If you decide not to buy FM because of Steam, then you are being foolish.
    I'm not a fan of DRM measurements myself. However, to me it was intriguing to see FM's popularity measured in numbers day in day out. Since its release, I have never seen FM dropping out of Steam's top ten list of most played games. Skyrim, despite its most recent download content, was only a match around the time of its initial release, and we're basically talking Counter-Strike levels of popularity here when we are counting peak numbers of players per day. Even more intriguing: Up until recently, numerous older versions going straight back to FM 2009 made this top 100, despite FM 2012 being the only release so far that makes Steam mandatory to play.

    I spread the word on this quickly, as there is very limited coverage of all things FM over here, and even many so called "games journalists" being ill-informed due to the manager market being essentially a monopoly with no real contest whatsoever and magazines only being provided with review copies from a single publisher. Mind, SI do have little to fear themselves now in particular that Championship Manager is essentially no more for the time being. But this is not acceptable to me, both as an FM player as well as the fan of the genre I have been for the past 20+ odd years.
    Last edited by Svenc; 30-08-2012 at 04:00.

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    Steam is the greatest digital invention in history.

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    I wouldn't say I'm a Steam convert but I will probably buy FM13 directly from them just for the convenience.

    You can see from this thread how many converts there are. Sega consider it to be a HUGE success.

    There is NO WAY Steam won't continue to be used for the foreseeable future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Q.P.R View Post
    I like many 1000s of others will no longer buy FM because of steam .

    Its a real shame that we are now seeing the end of FM .. we all know that sales of FM2012 fell by a mass amount . and there has been many staff members that have now left SI .

    It is now all over for us FM fans ... the big fall from grace has started .. of course it is not all beacuse of steam . its down too many factors
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA this guy is priceless as well as clueless, did someone say EPIC FAIL?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BiggusD View Post
    Steam is the greatest digital invention in history.
    Now that's foolish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Svenc View Post
    Up until recently, numerous older versions going straight back to FM 2009 made this top 100, despite FM 2012 being the only release so far that makes Steam mandatory to play.
    Which should make people realise that Steam was hugely popular with FM players long before it becamse mandatory. I play every single PC game i play through Steam, even if its not released through Steam, it just makes things simpler.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robsy1990 View Post
    I won't be buying FM13 if it's on Steam, as they don't give a **** about Mac users.
    I often play FM on my MacBook Pro and never had any problems with it?

    Personally I love Steam, all my games in one place, can delete and re-download as I please, games get patched automatically and their sales are pretty spectacular.

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    Ah the car analogies are back!! Yus!! I have a few crackers lined up if Ackter doesnt threaten to ban me!!

    Goaltie, do you know what data Steam collects?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaltie View Post
    The technical pro's and con's of Steam are irrelevant.

    What many people object to is the intrusion of a mandatory piece of software on their system. Would anyone buy a car with a mandatory sat nav that the manufacturer reserved the right to store the information from? Of course not, you'd buy from another, less intrusive, manufacturer. Of course, we can't do that with Steam because we are a captive market.

    Steam is a surveillance tool for the purpose of increasing sales as much as it's DRM. Not to mention the fact that no refunds policies are a violation of statutory consumer rights, and if challenged en mass shouldn't be enforcible in the EU.

    I think of Steam as mandatory keylogging software and CCTV on my PC. That said, pirating isn't fair and software like Steam is, I suppose, a natural reaction. Expect much, much more of this type of manufacturer intrusion in future.
    Steam isn't mandatory software though - however it is if you want to use Football Manager 2012 (and I assume 2013).

    You can either accept that, or not play the game. Up to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaltie View Post
    Car analogies are useful because most of us can relate to them, as most of us have one, but most consumer products are just as relevant.

    Without getting too deep into economics, one of the big principles of a free market is; once a product is sold it is the buyers property. Once you start eroding that, buy having post-sale restrictions you will always end up on shaky legal ground, unless you're somewhere like China.

    And, no one knows what data Steam collects except Steam. I know Some say they don't collect any. I respectfully disagree, at the very least they will collect email addresses and Steam downloads, which can be used for targeted marketing and sale of user data. I very much suspect that most online retailers go further but non of those have software permanently installed on your PC.
    Car analogies are pointless because buying a computer game is NOTHING AT ALL like buying a car except you transfer money.

    Anyway, its quite easy to find out what info Steam collects, but based on your earlier post i assumed you would have already done your research before insinuating Steam is like a CCTV camera.

    Its posts likes yours that have lead to the hysteria and unfounded nonsense that has been spouted out since SI moved onto Steam full time.

    Its also worth pointing out there has NEVER been a free market on computer games, at no point in any period of time have you owned a game you have bought, you have always owned a license to use the game, nothing more.

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    genuine question here.

    you have to be 13 years old, or older to open a Steam Account.
    you can play FM if your 3yrs or older.
    i'm pretty sure that you cant let someone else use your Steam Account.
    so does that mean that the parent of a 10 year old cannot set up a Steam Account, and let their 10 year old play games in it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaltie View Post
    Calm down Milner. I'm sorry my posts seem to upset you so much but I'm pretty sure I'm right. I do, however, realize I'll never convince a zelot such as yourself. I'll live with that if you can live with other people's right to an opinion ok?
    Having an opinion is fine, making things up is another thing.

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    Steam has been done to death in previous threads but despite the various positives & negatives atm SI deem Steam the best option of the ones given to them by Sega.

    At the end of the day Steam works well for 99% of users 99% of the time, the problems occur when you fall into the small minority that have issues.

    This could be a minor issue due to an update or offline mode not working which is annoying and temporarily means you cannot play any of your games registered with Steam (Not just FM).

    Or it could be a more serious issue, eg a hacked account, Steam blocking access to your account for various reasons or more extreme reasons such as Steam going bankrupt. Whilst many users don't consider these possibilities anyone that has worked with risk assessment will tell you a basic principle is "Don't put all your eggs in one basket" If your entire games collection is on Steam then you run the risk of losing that entire collection for reasons that are possibly beyond your control.

    For Steam to become a safe place to store a collection it needs to improve its customer service to the standard we have come to expect from SI, have terms & conditions that adhere to EU & UK law and have written guidelines/procedures for dealing with account recovery and in the more extreme cases eg of Steam/Valve going bankrupt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by postal postie View Post
    genuine question here.

    you have to be 13 years old, or older to open a Steam Account.
    you can play FM if your 3yrs or older.
    i'm pretty sure that you cant let someone else use your Steam Account.
    so does that mean that the parent of a 10 year old cannot set up a Steam Account, and let their 10 year old play games in it?

    The account holder needs to be over 13,you are not allowed to share your account information but I have seen many people post that they have a separate account for their child to play games on.
    You the account holder are responsible for the account but I have not seen anything to say your child could not play on the account..maybe not a good idea to have your credit card saved on the account though....the kid may get addicted to TF2 and buy lots of stuff from there.

    There was a thread not long ago on Steam were a Father used to add money to his kids Steam wallet to buy things in TF2 he was in a rush 1 day and asked his wife to do it,Instead of adding funds she just added the credit card,2 weeks later they got their bill and it was over $200 from the kid buying things,Steam was very helpful with them once they explained and the items were taken back and the money returned but better safe than sorry

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    Quote Originally Posted by daylight View Post
    The account holder needs to be over 13,you are not allowed to share your account information but I have seen many people post that they have a separate account for their child to play games on.
    You the account holder are responsible for the account but I have not seen anything to say your child could not play on the account..maybe not a good idea to have your credit card saved on the account though....the kid may get addicted to TF2 and buy lots of stuff from there.

    There was a thread not long ago on Steam were a Father used to add money to his kids Steam wallet to buy things in TF2 he was in a rush 1 day and asked his wife to do it,Instead of adding funds she just added the credit card,2 weeks later they got their bill and it was over $200 from the kid buying things,Steam was very helpful with them once they explained and the items were taken back and the money returned but better safe than sorry
    i see. i wasn't sure what the legal (according to Steam) ramifications were for allowing a minor to use a Steam Account that was created for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaltie View Post
    Car analogies are useful because most of us can relate to them, as most of us have one, but most consumer products are just as relevant.

    Without getting too deep into economics, one of the big principles of a free market is; once a product is sold it is the buyers property. Once you start eroding that, buy having post-sale restrictions you will always end up on shaky legal ground, unless you're somewhere like China.

    And, no one knows what data Steam collects except Steam. I know Some say they don't collect any. I respectfully disagree, at the very least they will collect email addresses and Steam downloads, which can be used for targeted marketing and sale of user data. I very much suspect that most online retailers go further but non of those have software permanently installed on your PC.
    Car analogies are not relevant. A game is a piece of software, and you are buying a license to use that software, you are not buying the software itself. In the same way that when buying a physical copy, you can only play it if you enter the CD key (Even pre-Steam); the actual physical product means nothing. Of course, most of these software license agreements have stupid time lengths like 99 years, or just endless licenses.

    You shouldn't be paranoid about Steam. As far as DRM goes it is very open about what it does. It links games to your account, and only one person can use that account at a time (So you can't go to your mate's house and install it on his computer). That is about it. Some DRM (See: Ubisoft) actually installs a rootkit in your computer that you cannot remove. Then they require a constant internet connection to play (No offline mode). As you play it sends real-time information about what hardware you are using, what software/programs you are running etc. There is also one notorious DRM that binds your CD key to your hardware, so if you decide to upgrade your graphics card, on install a new hard drive, your game no longer works.

    Steam has many advantages for SI relating to cost, distribution and advertisement, aswell as a reduction in piracy. Players can use Steam as a chat tool. If you are a big PC gamer it also allows you to use Steam as a place to launch your games from; Otherwise your desktop becomes too cluttered. Obviously for the casual gamer there are few advantages to being forced to use Steam, but you have to look at the bigger picture. It could be far, far worse. Imagine having to have a constant internet connection, with a server that keeps dropping out on you and closing your game?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seismica View Post
    Car analogies are not relevant. A game is a piece of software, and you are buying a license to use that software, you are not buying the software itself. In the same way that when buying a physical copy, you can only play it if you enter the CD key (Even pre-Steam); the actual physical product means nothing. Of course, most of these software license agreements have stupid time lengths like 99 years, or just endless licenses.

    You shouldn't be paranoid about Steam. As far as DRM goes it is very open about what it does. It links games to your account, and only one person can use that account at a time (So you can't go to your mate's house and install it on his computer). That is about it. Some DRM (See: Ubisoft) actually installs a rootkit in your computer that you cannot remove. Then they require a constant internet connection to play (No offline mode). As you play it sends real-time information about what hardware you are using, what software/programs you are running etc. There is also one notorious DRM that binds your CD key to your hardware, so if you decide to upgrade your graphics card, on install a new hard drive, your game no longer works.

    Steam has many advantages for SI relating to cost, distribution and advertisement, aswell as a reduction in piracy. Players can use Steam as a chat tool. If you are a big PC gamer it also allows you to use Steam as a place to launch your games from; Otherwise your desktop becomes too cluttered. Obviously for the casual gamer there are few advantages to being forced to use Steam, but you have to look at the bigger picture. It could be far, far worse. Imagine having to have a constant internet connection, with a server that keeps dropping out on you and closing your game?
    Or, it could be far, far better. Imagine putting your disk in your drive and playing your game whenever you want to and closing it yourself when you are finished.

    Pointing out the "advantages" of something to someone who has no interest in it, or has been negatively affected by it, is a useless PR exercise and as for looking at the "bigger picture" - imagine, "...I don't like being here because I keep getting punched in the face, but I'd better stay because over there they're using hammers!..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by pigfacemonkeyman View Post
    Or, it could be far, far better. Imagine putting your disk in your drive and playing your game whenever you want to and closing it yourself when you are finished.

    Pointing out the "advantages" of something to someone who has no interest in it, or has been negatively affected by it, is a useless PR exercise and as for looking at the "bigger picture" - imagine, "...I don't like being here because I keep getting punched in the face, but I'd better stay because over there they're using hammers!..."
    touché

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leishy1995 View Post
    I use a netbook, I need steam
    I think I'm right in saying that FM will still be taking up the same amount of resources even if you install via Steam. Most (all?) of the files are saved locally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seismica View Post
    Car analogies are not relevant. A game is a piece of software, and you are buying a license to use that software, you are not buying the software itself. In the same way that when buying a physical copy, you can only play it if you enter the CD key (Even pre-Steam); the actual physical product means nothing. Of course, most of these software license agreements have stupid time lengths like 99 years, or just endless licenses.?
    If I may apply a car analogy to this criticism of car analogies, if I go to a dealership and buy a VW Golf, I am not buying the Golf, I am buying a lifetime of usage of one Golf. Volkswagen still owns the Golf. Likewise, when I buy FM, I am not buying FM off SI so that I own the game and they don't, I am buying one copy of the code, database and so forth to play with.

    The alternative is Mercedes saying to Volkswagen "we'll buy the Golf off you", the rights to the Golf being transferred to Mercedes, and the Mercedes Golf being sold around the world, or EA going to Sega and saying "we'd like the buy the name, code and database for FM".

  100. #100
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    I think he means he doesnt have a cd drive on his netbook.....

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