two central midfielders

I keep reading threads where people refer to the well-known match engine bug realting to two central midfielders. What exactly is the problem?

they don't defend properly, if you want a ball winning midfielder, just pop him in the dm position.

The problem is only related to a specific formation, if you have not noticed it there is not point going looking for it, and even if you do use the formation its no where near as bad as this forum makes out. I have used the "weak" formation for 10 seasons with Wigan without having any problems.

They dont handle defending and attacking as well as they should. Its less of an issue with a DMC behind them, or alongside an ML and MR, but on their own they are exposed, most notably in the 4-2-3-1 Denmark formation.

I tend to play with a 4-1-2-2-1 formation, with 1 striker, 2 wingers, 2 centre-mids and a dm anchor. I am pretty rubbish at this game so am quite capable of not noticing the problem even if my tactics were suffering from it. I have never noticed the front post corner exploit either for instance. And I can never notice shouts making any difference to my team.

I once tried playing a 4231 (four defenders, 2 central midfielders, 3 attacking midifelders and a striker) i got ripped apart for the first few games of the season and so resorted to pushing the 2 central midfielders back to the DM position.

i thought i was just playing too attacking.

think my team was

.................Suarez........................

Sterling..Lucas Moura ...Boudabouz

.......Lucas Leiva....Gerrard............

....................................................

def1.......def2....def3...........def4.....

I've turned Brøndby IF into a 3 times CL winner and lost 2 finals (in 2031) using said formation with two central midfielders. It works like a charm. My midfielders defend well, they create and score goals. My wingers (support) are the same.

The reason some people fail using this formation must be due to their tactics and maybe their use of player roles.

Sikker, you are wrong in believing that people "fail" using the 4-2-3-1 formation due to their tactics.

Their is a flaw there, whether you like it or not.

Well, I'm not having any problems using that formation. And quite often when I read about people experiencing problems with their formation it's due to their tactic. They tinker with it to much and seem more focused on how their team plays rather than also focusing on their opponents play. These things goes hand in hand.

But fine with me if there seems to be an agreement that said formation is flawed. Just wanted to comment that the formation is indeed usable so people shouldn't hold back if they really want to use that formation.

I tend to play with a 4-1-2-2-1 formation, with 1 striker, 2 wingers, 2 centre-mids and a dm anchor. I am pretty rubbish at this game so am quite capable of not noticing the problem even if my tactics were suffering from it. I have never noticed the front post corner exploit either for instance. And I can never notice shouts making any difference to my team.

You can win everything using that formation. I do.

Having the DMC in front of the back four makes it very secure defensively.

4-2-2-2 formation is insane though, and that uses 2 central midfield

I've turned Brøndby IF into a 3 times CL winner and lost 2 finals (in 2031) using said formation with two central midfielders. It works like a charm. My midfielders defend well, they create and score goals. My wingers (support) are the same.

The reason some people fail using this formation must be due to their tactics and maybe their use of player roles.

It's mostly the AI. Allegedly Man City are weak defensively because their default midfield roles are too attacking. Of course, there's no way of knowing because you have to have 10 men back to stop them tearing you to shreds.

Isn't it mostly Man City?

In the Italian Serie A there is a couple of teams playing this formation (notably Bologna and Catania), and their central mids sit back and enjoy life all game long. They defend perfectly well.

So I think this issue has been totally overblown.

It's not really a match engine "bug." It's a tactical issue that affects certain AI formations (mainly the wide 4-2-3-1 and 4-2-4) but won't affect player tactics assuming they adhere to conventional role distributions (i.e., using at least one holding midfielder in either a CM or DM spot).

The problem is only related to a specific formation, if you have not noticed it there is not point going looking for it, and even if you do use the formation its no where near as bad as this forum makes out. I have used the "weak" formation for 10 seasons with Wigan without having any problems.

To be more precise, it has to do with a specific AI formation. It is very easy to set up an effective 4-2-3-1 with two central midfielders in the tactics creator by having one of the central midfielders sit deep with a more defensive mentality.

However, the AI 4-2-3-1 with two central midfielders typically has both CMs operating too aggressively which creates an easily exploited gap in front of their defensive line.

It's mostly the AI. Allegedly Man City are weak defensively because their default midfield roles are too attacking. Of course, there's no way of knowing because you have to have 10 men back to stop them tearing you to shreds.

The Man City "narrow" 4231 actually works pretty well. I don't know if it's because the CMs are set to be more defensive with that formation or if the wall of ACMs in front of them encourage the CMs to sit deeper, but it generally doesn't suffer from the "wide" 4231's midfield gap. In the thread where this is discussed, Man City is used as an example but it was after Remi Garde had been appointed as manager.

FWIW, if you're more of a "Press Start and Watch" type of player, you probably won't ever notice it, but if you're a tactical micromanager, it's one of several reasons why the "4231 Denmark" is considered the worst AI formation.

Thanks guys, that's what I was after.

I play with 2 CM's all the time and have never noticed anything wrong.

The Hand of God is spot on here, its mostly an ai problem, in addition to that I think the main reason players might have issues with the formation is that they both misunderstand and misuse the ball winner role

I have 2 central midfielders with the following roles:

Ball-winning - Defend

Deep lying playmaker - Support

I have no problems winning games. Could someone please let me know if this issue applies to what I'm doing? (For my own curiosity)

I have 2 central midfielders with the following roles:

Ball-winning - Defend

Deep lying playmaker - Support

I have no problems winning games. Could someone please let me know if this issue applies to what I'm doing? (For my own curiosity)

Read above, Hand of Gods post. It's relating to the AI CMs not tracking back enough or pushing forward too much in a 4-2-3-1 formation.

Don't think there is any issue with users formations if you address any issues you find (eg.defensive vunerabilities) My 4-2-3-1 formation is godlike, but even against strong opponents away, I will pull the AMC back to make 3 CMs. If not, you will have 4 players that basically won't defend/track back, ST, AMR, AML, AMC unless you adjust their instructions.

I use two box to box midfielders in the middle, Gökhan İnler and Fernandinho and it works great for me. They have a bunch of goals and assists. I also strongly suggest Kwadvo Asamoah and Ognjen Vukojevic for this position.