Inconsistent. Or is it realism?

[joel88]

So, in my second season as Forest. Won promotion last year from Champo.
Played 9 games in the Prem so far - won 3, lost 4, draw 2.
Not bad.
However, it's very inconsistant. My run down is as follows, forgive me but i can't remember all the teams:

Beat Arsenal 2-0, played great.
Lost Man Utd 1-0
Beat Newcastle 2-1
Drew 2-2
Drew 1-1
Lost QPR 2-1
Beat Wolves 4-0
Beat Villa 4-0
Lost Man City 1-0, played v defensive.

All seems a bit hit and miss doesn't it. I'm not expecting to beat all teams, as i'm only forest, and most my team consists of free transfers - a lot of them are young too.
Any tips on securing things up a bit? For that last Man City game i created a more defensive, counter tactic. Is this the way forward?
I hate conceeding!

[Rikulec]

I don't see anything unrealistic here.

[joel88]

I don't see anything unrealistic here.

I didn't say it was unrealistic.

I asked for any tips on securing things up a bit, or if i was expecting too much of my team.

But thanks for the helpful response...

[soccer.joel]

Yeah football is a game of ups and downs

[milnerpoint]

You seem to be doing ok for the team you are, what i would suggest is when your coming up against the bigger teams you should do as you did against City, make sure your team is solid at the back first and foremost, then build from there. Make sure your using match prep, paying attention to who is going to be up against who, and make sure your motiviating your team in the right way. Dont put them into games against the huge teams, or most away games demanding a win from your team, encourage and take the pressure off where you can. Last thing you need is your low rep players getting overly nervous against the bigger teams.

What i will say is until you get to a level where your challenging for the top you will get a lot of inconsistant results, its the nature of not being a top top team. The idea is to build each season on the success of the last season. I have a great longish term save going with Wigan, but it took me about 6 seasons before i found any real consistancy in my team.

[joel88]

You seem to be doing ok for the team you are, what i would suggest is when your coming up against the bigger teams you should do as you did against City, make sure your team is solid at the back first and foremost, then build from there. Make sure your using match prep, paying attention to who is going to be up against who, and make sure your motiviating your team in the right way. Dont put them into games against the huge teams, or most away games demanding a win from your team, encourage and take the pressure off where you can. Last thing you need is your low rep players getting overly nervous against the bigger teams.

What i will say is until you get to a level where your challenging for the top you will get a lot of inconsistant results, its the nature of not being a top top team. The idea is to build each season on the success of the last season. I have a great longish term save going with Wigan, but it took me about 6 seasons before i found any real consistancy in my team.

Thank you, it's good to hear a similar story.
What Roles and Duties do you use for your defense? I use a back four, at the moment my 2 CD's are set to CD-Stoppers (on the counter tactic). Then my FB's are set to Defend.
Do the duties and roles make a big difference? Should it be determined on my players stats?

[milnerpoint]

Thank you, it's good to hear a similar story.
What Roles and Duties do you use for your defense? I use a back four, at the moment my 2 CD's are set to CD-Stoppers (on the counter tactic). Then my FB's are set to Defend.
Do the duties and roles make a big difference? Should it be determined on my players stats?

It really depends what you have at your disposal, but yes attributes are vital for deciding roles.
Personally i started off with two limited centre halves, one on cover, one on stopper, i like that combo myself, the stopper has to be more aggresive, good at heading, tackling, anticiaption and decisions, the covering one for me should have a bit more pace about him, really good positioning amongst other attributes, i have since progressed to having two ball playing centre halves so i can build more from the back, but that only came from having success to buy better players. My full backs are both on support but if i am not getting forward well enough, or my wingers are being well marked i make use of the "overlap" shout. Again it depends what you want, do you have two good wingers or are you relying on the full backs to provide width?
I have my team always set up to counter, i like nothing more than breaking away very quickly from the back, but again my team is set up that way, i have two lightening quick wingers both instructed to stay up the pitch who can turn an opp attack into a goal for me in seconds.

[joel88]

It really depends what you have at your disposal, but yes attributes are vital for deciding roles.
Personally i started off with two limited centre halves, one on cover, one on stopper, i like that combo myself, the stopper has to be more aggresive, good at heading, tackling, anticiaption and decisions, the covering one for me should have a bit more pace about him, really good positioning amongst other attributes, i have since progressed to having two ball playing centre halves so i can build more from the back, but that only came from having success to buy better players. My full backs are both on support but if i am not getting forward well enough, or my wingers are being well marked i make use of the "overlap" shout. Again it depends what you want, do you have two good wingers or are you relying on the full backs to provide width?
I have my team always set up to counter, i like nothing more than breaking away very quickly from the back, but again my team is set up that way, i have two lightening quick wingers both instructed to stay up the pitch who can turn an opp attack into a goal for me in seconds.

Good info, thanks again. Yea i have 2 good wingers playing up high, so would like my FB's to stay back really. I will try the Cover and Stopper option, sounds good.
One last question, what kind of passing do you use for a countering, shorter or direct? Or again, do you base it on individual skill?

[jayahr]

After having read hundreds of rants about there being too many and too long streaks of success or failure in FM, it's really relieving to read a rant about inconsistent results for once

[milnerpoint]

Good info, thanks again. Yea i have 2 good wingers playing up high, so would like my FB's to stay back really. I will try the Cover and Stopper option, sounds good.
One last question, what kind of passing do you use for a countering, shorter or direct? Or again, do you base it on individual skill?

Again it depends what you have at your disposal, my team is set up for quick direct attacking football, its more useful for my team to get the ball wide and forward as quick as possible because i have a lot of pace in those areas, playing a lot of short passing doesnt play to my teams strengths my team needs space to run into to be really effective so i set up with direct passing, that doesnt mean you should, its just the way i like my teams to play. Saying that if i come up against a team sitting back and not letting me find the space i will use the shout "retain possession" and play wider to drag the opposition out of position to create that space.

I think when your a smaller team you really need to think about each game, rather than an overall tactic until you find a level your team is comfortable in.

But dont take my word for gospel, you need to tinker and find your own combination that works for your players.

[marty78]

Location Leicester and playing as Forest.

Seriously though your results are very good having just been promoted so your not doing too bad at all. You have to remember you have just entered one of the most competitive and highest quality leagues in the world. I am not too sure about two stoppers at the back though. I have not tried it but I would be worried that if the first came out to win the ball and failed the second would not be in the best position to cover him.

As milnerpoint says you should find your teams strengths and play to them as he does to his. If you keep up your early form a safe mid-table finish will be on and that is very good in the PL.

[milnerpoint]

If you feel your struggling, then i can suggest posting up your tactics, either note them down or upload the tactic somewhere and we can have a look at it for you, but just from looking at those results alone i would say your doing pretty well, if you keep up a season like that you will stay up and you can really build after a few years in the EPL.

Dont be overly worried about the big games right now, concentrate on beating teams around you and keeping things respectable against the big teams, beating them is something to build towards in the next few years.

[joel88]

Cheers guys, all helpful.
I played 2 more games in my lunch hour at work (laptop), i beat Sunderland 1-0 after a last minute goal - little bit lucky as they were all over me, especially in the 1st half.
Then i just beat Wigan 2-1. I was all over them and should of been easier but Guy Moussi had a nightmare and Al Habdsi played a blinder in there goal.

I think maybe i'm expecting too much as you guys said. It is my first season in the Prem, and only my 2nd in charge. We'll see how it pans out!

Btw, haha yep, Leicester born but a Man United and semi Forest fan. Long story!

[bolulu]

I am sure if Forest irl did what OP is doing, there would be no complaints about inconsistancy. "Won 3, lost 4, draw 2" is fairly staedy in my book.
You Reds!!!!

[Sir_Liam]

Those results are a good start to the season considering your circumstances.

I'm guessing you signed quite a few new players upon promotion, and I tend to find that while they're still getting to know each other results will be inconsistent. Providing you get things like tactics and team talks right, then your team should start being more consistent in the 2nd half of the campaign.

[joel88]

Cheers guys, think i need to stick witht he same tactics for a while and see how it all pans out.

[BiggusD]

As has been said above, with a team consisting of leading championship and decent premier league players with a few good premier league players as stars, you will get good results in matches where you get space and time to score goals. In the matches where you are denied this, the lack of player quality will make it difficult for you to score and you will be punished for any mistake made.

Hence you will be inconsistent. I see you beat the big teams where you are a huge underdog and struggle vs the smaller teams where you are the favourite or are thought to draw. This is entirely consistent with a tactic that is efficient when given space but requires high skill to be efficient against defensive teams.

[joel88]

Hence you will be inconsistent. I see you beat the big teams where you are a huge underdog and struggle vs the smaller teams where you are the favourite or are thought to draw. This is entirely consistent with a tactic that is efficient when given space but requires high skill to be efficient against defensive teams.

Ah interesting. Are there tactics then that are better against more defensive teams then?

[BiggusD]

Ah interesting. Are there tactics then that are better against more defensive teams then?

Yes; slower, wider, more patient tactics. Counter-attacks isn't that efficient against teams waiting for your team to go forward - there is no space to counter in! You need to find that space, and that can't be done if your players are attempting to find the shortest and most direct route to the goal and finish at the first opportunity.

[markyosullivan]

If I'm honest it looks like you're over achieving

[ife]

I noticed this tends to happen. I took eastleigh from the lower blue square to the championship. I didnt expect or even want promotion to the Epl in my 1st season in the championship cos I knew being fresh from the League 1, my team wouldn't be good enough to stay up. Somehow, with a remarkable final half season run of results, I found myself in the final seed playoff spot and got promoted. As bad as that team was, I had a similar run to yours in my 1st few Epl games. Was 3rd after 4 games, 17th in mid season and finished 10th overall.

I think teams just got complacent against us cos I got a good whooping the following season. I could tell cos I got battered in many of the matches but won because of lazy finishing by the other teams. It happens when the talent drop off between two teams in a match is very large. The better team tends to play crap and an upset bcomes very likely cos I upset half the big teams that season and many midtable teams. See if you still have the same luck next season.

Another thing is, In my 1st season, like you I mostly lost when i tried to play defensive and won when i went fluid attacking.

[joel88]

Yes; slower, wider, more patient tactics. Counter-attacks isn't that efficient against teams waiting for your team to go forward - there is no space to counter in! You need to find that space, and that can't be done if your players are attempting to find the shortest and most direct route to the goal and finish at the first opportunity.

Ah i see. My main tactic is Slow, Wide and Standard mentality. I haven't actually used the countering one since Man City.

Drew with Chelsea 1-1, beat Reading 4-1 and drew with Liverpool 2-2 are my latest results.

[scott MUFC]

I find counter attacking works best against attacking focused teams. to get the best out of counter attack you need to score early yourself, so they do focus on attack, works better away from home.
very fluid attacking 4-2-2-2 always wins the day (4-4-2 with wingers pushed up) at home. no matter who you are.

[tomtuck01]

I find counter attacking works best against attacking focused teams.

Cheers for that Captain Obvious.

[scott MUFC]

ahh yes, but those so called attacking focused teams could play hardball and go defencive. i beat liverpool 6-0 at anfield. was 19 minutes of midfield boredom until i scored so they had to attack (and therfore opening the floodgates).
and i tried it at all away games, even when these teams attack they are so bad at it you cant counter them either lol

[Sussex Hammer]

I can't get my head around the inconsistency. In second season my West Ham team have beaten Man City, Liverpool twice, Arsenal, Man United and drawn with Chelsea. Yet I have been beaten at home by QPR, Reading, Fulham, Southampton and Swansea!!!!

[BiggusD]

I can't get my head around the inconsistency. In second season my West Ham team have beaten Man City, Liverpool twice, Arsenal, Man United and drawn with Chelsea. Yet I have been beaten at home by QPR, Reading, Fulham, Southampton and Swansea!!!!

You lose when you are the favourites and win when you are the underdog. It requires more skill and mental fortitude to break down a cynical defense while being expected to win than it does to run in lots of space when noone expect anything of you. At least in FM.