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Thread: To All of You Out There That Struggle With The Game

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    Default To All of You Out There That Struggle With The Game

    First of all I'd just like to give a pretty brief background of me as a Football Manager player. I am terrible, I mean, it's as simple as that. I have been playing and loving the game for years now but I have been sacked so many times it's unreal. I genuinely believe that I have been sacked more times than I have won trophies on the game. I have never really understood why things haven't worked, I always try play beautiful football, perhaps that could be one of the reasons I have been unsuccessful all these years but if I'm being straight I just don't know what I'm doing wrong and that's always a problem.
    Now I decided to make this thread because I have noticed a few people on here can struggle with the game at times, I know there's many of you who have incredible amounts of success with your teams and I must admit I envy you guys! But as I said, there are also a few guys on here that simply don't seem to enjoy the same levels of success as others and I am one of those guys, I just want to show you the season I have just had with Swansea City to show that ANYONE can have success on this game if you keep plugging away at it. One thing that almost put me off making this thread was the feeling that I was showing off, maybe a little part of me is showing off but I just hope that it can inspire some of you who are having no success whatsoever to keep playing the game and hopefully you can enjoy a similar season to the one I just had, it was without a doubt the best season I have ever had on the game... Not that there was much competition in all honesty.



    I don't know whether it was simply that Swansea City's style of play suited my tactical philosophy or what but it all just seemed to come together perfectly. I never once strayed away from my 4-5-1 formation, control strategy or fluid philosophy. I was expecting the come unstuck against some of the big teams but I stuck with the same style of football and was able to get some fantastic results, results that I have never had before and never expected to have this season. Yes, we did get absolutely spanked 5-1 at Old Trafford but that was bound to happen sooner or later and I could hardly argue given the fact we were almost in 4th position at the time.




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    Congratulations. Now, how to push on next season?

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    Thanks wwfan. This is how season 2 went for us. I really struggled early on in the season and was hovering just above the relegation zone so I switched up the tactic and we managed to push on, an insane amount of loses considering we finished 6th. It's so, so hard to break into the top 5. Next season I want to get further in the EC, I was gutted we went out to Rubin in the first knockout round. I'm really enjoying this save though, I think if I stick it out for a few more years I could get Swansea into the CL which would be incredible. This is making a nice change from losing 9/10 games and being sacked before season 1 is even over I can tell you.




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    Bragging isn't a problem at all as long as you are proud of what you have achieved and you say so, which you do. Well done getting continental competitions with Swansea first season.

    What have you done differently this savegame compared to what you did earlier? That is the interesting question, I think. If you want specific advice on how to move forward, I think uploading your savegame is the best way to do this. I bet someone can point out things that could make your FM-life much more enjoyable - things you haven't thought of or not noticed, or even things you are doing wrong.

    Once the last patch is out, in March, I like to holiday a few seasons ahead before starting my save simply because the first season has had so many recent transfers that most clubs struggle with lack of team gelling already from the start, and it is nearly impossible to get rid of all the recently-joined deadwood. Five seasons in, the first good regens are beginning to make an impact on the game and most of the overpaid, elderly "stars" have either left or retired.

    I think many of those who struggle succeeding in this game are experiencing unnecessary difficulty because in 12.2.2 the first season is really sabotaging your efforts.

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    I don't see the point in this??

    I can win the Premiership with Swansea first season.

    Game is easy, I want it harder...

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    Quote Originally Posted by eastley View Post
    I don't see the point in this??

    I can win the Premiership with Swansea first season.

    Game is easy, I want it harder...
    He did state in the OP that other people are far better at the game than him. If you've missed the threads where people complain that the game is impossibly difficult, you won't get this one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eastley View Post
    I don't see the point in this??

    I can win the Premiership with Swansea first season.

    Game is easy, I want it harder...
    Win the Prem with Hayes & Yeading, then we'll see if FM is too easy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eastley View Post
    I don't see the point in this??

    I can win the Premiership with Swansea first season.

    Game is easy, I want it harder...
    I was expecting comments like this to be honest. In reply to BiggusD, this is the first save game I have edited my own full training schedule's. I'm not sure how much effect that has had but I made sure a lot of the training was ball control based seeing as my tactic involved a lot of very short passing. I think not over tweaking tactics has been a factor too. I haven't changed anything from the default settings unless I felt it was 100% necessary, I think in previous games I've felt to have success I have to edit the hell out of the tactics and keep chopping and changing but on this occasion I just opted to keep things simple and I guess it has helped me improve at the game.
    Of course there are a hell of a lot of people better than me at the game, I mentioned it as BiggusD said in the opening post but success is always relative to each team and each player and for me this has been an incredibly successful game so far and I'd just like to help others who usually struggle at the game too.
    I think what you have to do is change your mentality towards the game, perhaps even going as far as unlearning what you feel is the best way to do certain things on the game.
    Last edited by Amateurish; 16-06-2012 at 16:15.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amateurish View Post
    I was expecting comments like this to be honest. In reply to BiggusD, this is the first save game I have edited my own full training schedule's. I'm not sure how much effect that has had but I made sure a lot of the training was ball control based seeing as my tactic involved a lot of very short passing. I think not over tweaking tactics has been a factor too. I haven't changed anything from the default settings unless I felt it was 100% necessary, I think in previous games I've felt to have success I have to edit the hell out of the tactics and keep chopping and changing but on this occasion I just opted to keep things simple and I guess it has helped me improve at the game.
    Of course there are a hell of a lot of people better than me at the game, I mentioned it as BiggusD said in the opening post but success is always relative to each team and each player and for me this has been an incredibly successful game so far and I'd just like to help others who usually struggle at the game too.
    I think what you have to do is change your mentality towards the game, perhaps even going as far as unlearning what you feel is the best way to do certain things on the game.
    Training only affects how CA is distributed into attributes.

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    I'm like you. Not the best player. I'm playing with Lincoln City (FM 11), manage to take it from League Two to Championship in 2 seasons, but since then I never got promoted to the Premier League. I've been improving in terms of position (20th, 21st, 16th and 7th). Now I'm in the 5th season in a row in the Championship, 7th in the save. Sometimes I can win the best teams, othertimes not even the worst teams. Not everyone is a good player.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eastley View Post
    I don't see the point in this??

    I can win the Premiership with Swansea first season.

    Game is easy, I want it harder...
    So can anybody employing a "super-tactic" that exploits the ME and knowledge of high CA / low value youngsters. I'd be very impressed if you could do this without using a game-breaking formation, extreme settings classic tactics and the corner exploit, with a randomised database and no data editor to discover great players.

    If, of course, you can already do this, hats off to you and my apologies. You are truly a great FM player.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wwfan View Post
    So can anybody employing a "super-tactic" that exploits the ME and knowledge of high CA / low value youngsters. I'd be very impressed if you could do this without using a game-breaking formation, extreme settings classic tactics and the corner exploit, with a randomised database and no data editor to discover great players.

    If, of course, you can already do this, hats off to you and my apologies. You are truly a great FM player.
    - No exploiting like corner trick etc..
    - No data editor
    - Some knowledge good players due to repetitive play (love FM!!)
    - An awesome tactic built by user on this forum, then altered by me after some 40 seasons of playing that one tactic (I'm crap at tactics, needed a base to work off)
    - Knowing what players to bring in, my tactic is all about the Mental and Physical, like must have players with good pace!!!
    - Knowing how to use every resource available to you, even cash.
    - If I have 20m transfer budget, by seasons end, that is 100m+, I drain the club, but always bring in success and Europe qualification, I make that money back quick smart.. Board also increase my budgets 2-3 times per season due to my success.

    My current save is with Southampton, I got them promoted and currently sitting 7th in Prem, I have signed players such as:

    Pogba
    Shelvey
    Flanagan
    Shawcross
    K. Gibbs
    McEachran
    Rodwell
    LuKaka
    J. Robinson
    K. Zahore

    All by second season January transfer window!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafino View Post
    Win the Prem with Hayes & Yeading, then we'll see if FM is too easy.
    Will try that..

    In how many seasons?

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    But you do have FMRT installed and you are using a super-tactic. Not judging, but saying the game is easy when you are relying on other people's settings is disingenuous. Further, nearly all the super-tactics posted here use the corner exploit, so I'd be very surprised if yours isn't, even if you aren't aware of it.

    I'll set you a challenge. Overachieve to this extent using the TC and shouts alone, plus mixed delivery corner setting, and a tactic employing either ML/Rs or AML/Rs. Also, start in the BSS/N or a low level foreign division, so you don't know the players. If you can still dominate the leagues, you can then complain the game is too easy. It is possible to do this, but it takes a fair bit of thought and effort. Very rewarding though.

    I'm not trying to criticize how you play. It is your game and you can play it any way you please. However, I don't think you can claim it is too easy unless you are doing everything yourself, plus achieve when having little to no knowledge of the database.

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    Two quick points: FM is a lot of fun, and a very versatile football simulator. Tactics and player development are my favorite parts. I downloaded tactics maybe 4 or 5 years ago to see how my results using my own tactics stacked up (before I realized that super tactics were more exploits of the match engine than based on solid football strategy).

    Second point, its very tough for people to congratulate the achievements of others. So congrats to the OP!

    For me the challenge lies in sustaining dominance. Once I have assembled a squad capable of winning in Europe and winning the league I want to see if I can improve (I try to score 3 goals a game and concede 1 or less on average) and maintain that level, even when the current stars have aged and moved on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eastley View Post
    - No exploiting like corner trick etc..
    - An awesome tactic built by user on this forum, then altered by me after some 40 seasons of playing that one tactic (I'm crap at tactics, needed a base to work off)
    So, you're saying you're not good at tactics, though you want the game to become more difficult in the future? Can't say I understand you here. If you need an awesome tactic built by another user, the game isn't too easy. It would be if most players win with ease, wich most don't. The great tactic you're using is probably an exploit of the match engine in itself. I'm not judging the way you play for I know a lot of virtual managers that don't like to put much effort in tactics, but you can't call the game easy if you ignore this aspect of it.

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    Tactics experimentation is one of the highlights of the game for me. I've found that when you line up your players according to tactics and opponent data you can make a decent swing at clubs two or three leagues above you.

    I'd pay good money to get the Sir Alex Ferguson AI's tactics though, it destroys mine every single time.

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    Congrats to the OP. I'm the same. I'm not a amazing player but I stick at my game and bring in players based on scout reports. I stick to the 4-4-2 formation and maybe switch based on the players given to me or that I buy in. Again congrats to the OP

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    Quote Originally Posted by wwfan View Post
    But you do have FMRT installed and you are using a super-tactic. Not judging, but saying the game is easy when you are relying on other people's settings is disingenuous. Further, nearly all the super-tactics posted here use the corner exploit, so I'd be very surprised if yours isn't, even if you aren't aware of it.

    I'll set you a challenge. Overachieve to this extent using the TC and shouts alone, plus mixed delivery corner setting, and a tactic employing either ML/Rs or AML/Rs. Also, start in the BSS/N or a low level foreign division, so you don't know the players. If you can still dominate the leagues, you can then complain the game is too easy. It is possible to do this, but it takes a fair bit of thought and effort. Very rewarding though.

    I'm not trying to criticize how you play. It is your game and you can play it any way you please. However, I don't think you can claim it is too easy unless you are doing everything yourself, plus achieve when having little to no knowledge of the database.
    Why ML/Rs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chao Yang View Post
    Tactics experimentation is one of the highlights of the game for me. I've found that when you line up your players according to tactics and opponent data you can make a decent swing at clubs two or three leagues above you.

    I'd pay good money to get the Sir Alex Ferguson AI's tactics though, it destroys mine every single time.
    I seem to have an excellent record against the big clubs at home, in fact I have an excellent home record. Seem to be having problems at home. I am still struggling with understanding the game in terms of motivating players and playing away from home. Anyway, congrats to the OP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Govnar1 View Post
    Why ML/Rs?
    Narrow tactics are better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BiggusD View Post
    Narrow tactics are better.
    Much easier to exploit the ME with narrow tactics.

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    Playing with wingers (or wide inside forwards) is simply more fun, who needs more reason than that?

    Amateurish: Well done! That's a great early result for a small club - and because you're playing the game in a good spirit, avoiding exploitative tactics and the like, I think your achievement is meaningful.
    Last edited by hugo_rune; 18-06-2012 at 11:54.

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    The narrow tactic exploit was back on 00/01 I thought they would have sorted it by now. For the record I use my own tactics (through the middle) and formation 3322. 3 CDs, L/R M, CM, 2 AMCs and 2 CFs with the team on the first notch of 'wide'.

    Its a great formation, but given 13 years to reach the Prem with a relegation and turgid early years I like to think there wasn't an exploit.
    Last edited by nickdc; 18-06-2012 at 12:03.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BiggusD View Post
    Narrow tactics are better.
    Quote Originally Posted by wwfan View Post
    Much easier to exploit the ME with narrow tactics.
    Would any of you please elaborate that a bit? Wide and especially asymmetric formations in combination with off center positioned AMC (AMCr or AMCl) seem extremely successful at exploiting ME.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Govnar1 View Post
    Would any of you please elaborate that a bit? Wide and especially asymmetric formations in combination with off center positioned AMC (AMCr or AMCl) seem extremely successful at exploiting ME.
    If you have one FCL and one AMCR the central defenders will not cope with their running. This is more useful with a narrow tactic because the situation will happen more often.

    The fact is that while the ball is on the flanks or in the middle of the pitch, no goals will be scored. Thus, the more the ball finds itself in the penalty mark area, the more goals will be scored - and you really want to prevent this happening on your end so you make sure the central area is well defended. One way of using wide players to get the ball into the box is crossing, but this is much less efficient than through balls in the centre.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BiggusD View Post
    If you have one FCL and one AMCR the central defenders will not cope with their running. This is more useful with a narrow tactic because the situation will happen more often.
    I fully agree with this. Diagonally positioned FC and AMC rip apart AI DCs. Although this should happen occasionally it is all to frequent in FM. In my opinion it's the most efficient exploit in the current ME.

    The fact is that while the ball is on the flanks or in the middle of the pitch, no goals will be scored. Thus, the more the ball finds itself in the penalty mark area, the more goals will be scored - and you really want to prevent this happening on your end so you make sure the central area is well defended.
    Well this is truth in life and in game, so it's not really an exploit.

    One way of using wide players to get the ball into the box is crossing, but this is much less efficient than through balls in the centre.
    Yo can not relay on crosses in FM as players (especially FBs) are far too reluctant to cross even when wide open. So low number of crosses in combination with low efficiency of this type of attack really kills this strategy in current ME. This unfortunately means that wide players are used more to stretch the play and directly attack central area than to contribute from wide position as Jérôme Rothen would. Dennis Aogo is another good real life example, he attempts around 7 crosses per game and around 30% of them find target.
    Last edited by Govnar1; 18-06-2012 at 15:25.

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    Basically, the ME defends wide positions than it does central ones. If, as with many of the most popular super-tactics, you play 4 defenders, 3 central midfielders in the M/DM strata and three FCs, you score lots of goals simply down to the AI's defence regularly failing to pick up the most central FC. In defence, you merely keep 7 players back, and rely on your FBs coping with the wings.

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    In my save a number of top clubs (mainly Man U, City, and tycoon owned Lazio) have started ripping apart the opposition with a 3-4-3. Can be tough to play against, but not impossible.

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    Much study is needed to master this series of games. And that's just with Glentoran. Amen?

    Amen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wwfan View Post
    So can anybody employing a "super-tactic" that exploits the ME and knowledge of high CA / low value youngsters. I'd be very impressed if you could do this without using a game-breaking formation, extreme settings classic tactics and the corner exploit, with a randomised database and no data editor to discover great players.

    If, of course, you can already do this, hats off to you and my apologies. You are truly a great FM player.
    Cleon managed it

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    I've never used a data editor, ive always kept the same default tactics and training schedules that start with the a new game. I always played as Liverpool FC. My initial starting transfer budget has been approx 17 mil, Ive always sold players to raise that amount. I always buy young cheap players and toss them into the first team to build up their attributes. Ive never had a season where ive finished below 2nd or 3rd place. I do set my own formations but thats pretty much it. I never change sliders or anything like that.

    I guess I just buy the right players that seem to perform and develop in the first team. I dunno if its luck or what lol.

    I just started recently using ferious' schedules.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wwfan View Post
    Basically, the ME defends wide positions than it does central ones. If, as with many of the most popular super-tactics, you play 4 defenders, 3 central midfielders in the M/DM strata and three FCs, you score lots of goals simply down to the AI's defence regularly failing to pick up the most central FC. In defence, you merely keep 7 players back, and rely on your FBs coping with the wings.
    Thanks for explanation . I rarely venture into Tactics & Training subforum so I didn't know that overloading central deference is still that effective. In my opinion AI defends central area better than it used to but it's still not good enough. I still don't think AI adequately protects wide areas, it's more reluctance of wide players to cross when wide open that gives that impression.

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