Racism Watch

Yea it's ugly, but there's no escaping the cloud over the this years Euros.

We've already had problems at the Dutch team, and that was just at their training base.

I'm hoping this is just another example of pre-tournament hysteria, much like the whole South Africa crime problem and the Hooligans of German 2006, but I can't but feel a little worried that the tournament is going to blighted by it.

I'm particularly worried about the Ukraine vs England match. If there's something to play for then, that match could get really nasty.

First confirmation by UEFA of Racist chanting: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18363736

That was the one at the Dutch training ground.

Should players walk off the pitch? Referees have the power I guess, but will be instructed to make such a bold move as to abandon games and jeopardise the tournament? Doubt it.

Its a bit bad racist has already been around by this stage.

By the way refs have said if they hear racism the match will be halted. Any player who walks off will be booked. The refs will do the referring is their stance.

It will be interesting to see if chanting is heard, whether they will stop games or players walk off. I'm a sceptic, so can't see it.

Especially when you see how UEFA/FIFA ignored it in the past (pointless 5 figure fines).

That said, if John Terry was under the investigation he's under in any other line of work/proffession he might just be suspended pending the outcome. So to hear the English scum press laying the racism card on so thickly about others and then thinking it's ok for Terry to fly out there smacks of complete b*llocks to me.

But hey, the Brits love to intervene in other nation's affairs.

Be interesting to see also how Terry's future looks IF convicted. It won't change much methinks.

Hypocrisy here, there and everywhere.

A bit like one of these?

It's a laugh init.

Apparently from the UEFA website regarding the Dutch training session:

'Mild sunshine warmed the stadium and 'Ooohs' and 'Aaahs' regularly emanated from the stands as the players enjoyed a session of finishing practice, with the likes of Arjen Robben, Dirk Kuyt and Klaas-Jan Huntelaar burying some nice goals.'

More ooohs than aaahs presumably. Probably lots of them one after the other.

Did they think they were at a firework show?

TBH the British can take the moral high ground all they want, I've seen the attitudes towards literally anyone who looks like they might be Muslim whenever one or two extremist morons does something to offend the British like burning a poppy or something. People in this country are just as guilty of racism in the modern day.

Its different though isn't it wands? There is definitely a racist sector of Britain, as all countries have but in my experience of our football grounds it has largely been cut out, from what i've seen and heard. Is there a racism problem in Britains football grounds, i dont think so, is there a racial problem in Poland/Ukraine? Yes, definitely. We haven't even kicked off yet and already the Dutch team have been subjected to monkey noises.

UEFA's whole response to the threat has been a joke as well

True, but I sigh when I see people on Facebook condemning racism in other countries whilst posting things like "all muslims can suk my dik".

Wands a fully paid up member of the KKK iirc

Its different though isn't it wands? There is definitely a racist sector of Britain, as all countries have but in my experience of our football grounds it has largely been cut out, from what i've seen and heard. Is there a racism problem in Britains football grounds, i dont think so, is there a racial problem in Poland/Ukraine? Yes, definitely. We haven't even kicked off yet and already the Dutch team have been subjected to monkey noises.

UEFA's whole response to the threat has been a joke as well

The FA, Chelsea FC and English scum press seem just fine with Terry's allegations (and will be afterwards if he's convicted).

Can't see Chelsea ripping up his contract. Kicked out of the England team.....

The Sun happy to splash the mick on taking off Roy's speech impediment, because he's 'different'. But not different like others are different, so fair game.

All this hand-wringing, politicians refusing to go because of human rights, racism crocodile tears just doesn't wash quite like it should coming from England.

Nah man, only Communist Party.

Im not sure what you're point is tbh Jibby123

I hate Terry as much as your next man but he's just one man, we're talking about a crowd of people who have specifically gone to the Dutch training session to racially abuse them, its different.

Categories of racism now?? Some worse than others?? Aah, I see. Apologies.

Racism is racism.

Racism - a huge problem in Ukraine? Really?) I've already written a letter to my colleagues from BBC re their Panorama doco.

There are some problems, but they are minor and mostly within ultras of some football clubs. It's not a national problem (as in EU).

Im not sure what you're point is tbh Jibby123

I hate Terry as much as your next man but he's just one man, we're talking about a crowd of people who have specifically gone to the Dutch training session to racially abuse them, its different.

Terry will never play for England again if found guilty.

Well, whilst I'm not agreeing with his point, there were Chelsea fans who were prosecuted for racist chanting (or something like that) towards Daniel Sturridge on two occasions this season iirc and you can find cases with racism anywhere in the world if you look hard enough. There's been countless mentions of racism in the stands in Spain and Italy in revent years too, fwiw.

The statement from Chelsea FC about that incident....

'However, we will continue to vigorously pursue any evidence of individuals or groups taking part in discriminatory behaviour and take the strongest action against them. Chelsea FC believes such activity shames the club and the game of football and we are fully committed to eradicating such offensive behaviour from the sport.'

Can't wait for them to follow their own such noble words and deeds post-Terry trial if convicted.

Former Netherlands midfielder Clarence Seedorf on BBC Match Of The Day: "It's never a good moment when we have these type of issues [racism]. What should the players do? Ignore it. We should just tell them 'you are not affecting me' otherwise they will do it more. It's a minority."

I like his attitude. The more players like Balotelli start crying about it and walking off the pitch, the more abuse they will get. The players need to stand up, grow a pair and not let be shown that it's affecting them and the racists will get bored eventually.

Fair one Kenco.

From somebody whose never experienced it (so hardly qualified to comment), I would love to, in their shoes, blow kisses, wave, smile and give the thumbs up to the cavemen giving it the chants. Just to wind them up kind of.

Terry will never play for England again if found guilty.

He is how old? Would he have played again regardless? Leaving his case until after the Euros was a smart, if immoral move.

I like his attitude. The more players like Balotelli start crying about it and walking off the pitch, the more abuse they will get. The players need to stand up, grow a pair and not let be shown that it's affecting them and the racists will get bored eventually.

Wow. Just WOW.

I've never racially abused anyone so Wands can stick it up his backside, I'm going to moan until my legs fall off.

Former Netherlands midfielder Clarence Seedorf on BBC Match Of The Day: "It's never a good moment when we have these type of issues [racism]. What should the players do? Ignore it. We should just tell them 'you are not affecting me' otherwise they will do it more. It's a minority."

I like his attitude. The more players like Balotelli start crying about it and walking off the pitch, the more abuse they will get. The players need to stand up, grow a pair and not let be shown that it's affecting them and the racists will get bored eventually.

Do you turn the other cheek everytime someone offends you or only in select circumstances?

Bob Ley of ESPN touched on this in the post match return. In bizarre fashion he then went on to say "there was none of that during this match" (POL v GRE). Err... No, with 22 white men on the field, noone made any racist chants/sounds...

this been posted yet?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/euro-2012-50-polish-thugs-867613#.T9IggvbsuHk.facebook

Bob Ley of ESPN touched on this in the post match return. In bizarre fashion he then went on to say "there was none of that during this match" (POL v GRE). Err... No, with 22 white men on the field, noone made any racist chants/sounds...

There's no homophobia either, because there's no gays either. Come to think of it there's none in the tournament. And get this....there were none in the whole 92 club top tiers of the English league last year? Or at least in it's premier league.

No gays. No homophobia. No problem. Bob Ley ain't stoopid.

this been posted yet?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/euro-2012-50-polish-thugs-867613#.T9IggvbsuHk.facebook

Is this the best they can do? :confused: An attack on "English speaking fans", who turn out to be Russian when you read the article. Plus it was in Lodz which isn't even hosting any games.

yeah, but it did have this

"It warned police dogs were trained to "bite you directly in the testicles.""

Maybe this should be hooligan watch thread as well. Anyway apparently some Russian hooligans attacked some stewards.

if balotelli doesn't walk off the pitch if he gets it then goes on to score a goal he might go beserk(spelling). Russias a Racist country aswell, look what happened to Odemwingie! and they gave the WC to them over england.

Russia is a racist country.

A Spanish fan has been murdered in Donetsk. Wasn't black though so no worries.

Happened a while ago, too, fwiw.

A Spanish fan has been murdered in Donetsk. Wasn't black though so no worries.

He's not a fan. Was a normal guy taking a break hence him being in Donetsk when they play in Gdansk. Three men apparently murdered him during a mugging. Unrelated to the Euros though.

It's being reported here that he's a fan but is on holiday before Spain go there for the knockout stages.

[video=youtube;o9JV-SOikZI]

Why did people turn up to a training session to abuse players? Not right in the head.

The guys who did it weren't normal Euros fans. Their purpose wasn't about purely about racism either. They were Ultras from Wisla who didn't want the Dutch team using their stadium due to them disagreeing with the Euros. They used racism as a vehicle to be noticed as it's the thing guaranteed to get the most bad press. They want to humiliate Donald Tusk (Polish PM) and his party just like the Widzew fans did earlier the same day in Lodz when Tusk and Godson were making speeches about tolerance. The guys who made the noises may well be racists, but their aim wasn't really about being racist as much as making them unwelcome and using racism as it guarantees press coverage. That may sound like a strange thing to write but these guys just want to be abusive in any way possible and will attack areas that guarantee them press coverage.

It's being reported here that he's a fan but is on holiday before Spain go there for the knockout stages.

According to a Ukrainian journalist I speak to he went missing at some point in May and was there for a holiday/break. Other reports have suggested a business trip. Either way it sucks for him and is a really sad story. Just wanted to separate it from football. It's a sad and a big social problem in places with poverty like there.

One serious point I would like to make is to warn any Russians on here to avoid Warsaw next Tuesday. If they do go they should speak very quietly and not wear team colors. This "event" was arranged a few days ago but now the Polish Ultras groups are even more angry after the Russians beat the stewards last night. What ever you do not not wear anything with Communist symbols as they are illegal in Poland like Nazi symbols and wearing these could result in being attacked for obvious reasons.

http://ceefootball.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/403388_373620916034124_1234204462_n4.jpg

The guys who did it weren't normal Euros fans. Their purpose wasn't about purely about racism either. They were Ultras from Wisla who didn't want the Dutch team using their stadium due to them disagreeing with the Euros. They used racism as a vehicle to be noticed as it's the thing guaranteed to get the most bad press. They want to humiliate Donald Tusk (Polish PM) and his party just like the Widzew fans did earlier the same day in Lodz when Tusk and Godson were making speeches about tolerance. The guys who made the noises may well be racists, but their aim wasn't really about being racist as much as making them unwelcome and using racism as it guarantees press coverage. That may sound like a strange thing to write but these guys just want to be abusive in any way possible and will attack areas that guarantee them press coverage.

That is all well and good but here is the part I am having trouble getting my head around.

The Dutch players and staff had to move their exercise equipment to the other end of the pitch so they could continue,why did they have to move?

Where is the policing of these events?and how did these ultras even get entry into the stadium?I am sure they are all well known to the police and stadium staff.

It has been spoke about and reported that racism was/could be a big problem in this competition so where is the hard stance against it?

They should have dealt with this incident(the first of the competition)with an iron hand to send out a message.

That is all well and good but here is the part I am having trouble getting my head around.

The Dutch players and staff had to move their exercise equipment to the other end of the pitch so they could continue,why did they have to move?

Where is the policing of these events?and how did these ultras even get entry into the stadium?I am sure they are all well known to the police and stadium staff.

It has been spoke about and reported that racism was/could be a big problem in this competition so where is the hard stance against it?

They should have dealt with this incident(the first of the competition)with an iron hand to send out a message.

Doubt many of them were known to cops tbh. Ultras are different to hooligans. Tend to make noise but not get involved in the violence hooligans enjoy. Unlikely many have criminal records or football related offenses so hard to ban them.

Removing 500 of these guys would require riot police using extreme force and would take a long time. It's a hard one for the officials. You need to stamp out this type of behavior but politically it would be a bigger political/image disaster as removing them would result in war zone type images being broadcast as they wouldn't leave if told.

Doubt many of them were known to cops tbh. Ultras are different to hooligans. Tend to make noise but not get involved in the violence hooligans enjoy. Unlikely many have criminal records or football related offenses so hard to ban them.

Removing 500 of these guys would require riot police using extreme force and would take a long time. It's a hard one for the officials. You need to stamp out this type of behavior but politically it would be a bigger political/image disaster as removing them would result in war zone type images being broadcast as they wouldn't leave if told.

So in other words just let them carry on as it is too much of a hassle.....man what a lot of nonsense.

To many people putting their heads in the sand and saying this is not a problem.

If it continues with no iron hand tactics then this competition is going to be a disaster.

So in other words just let them carry on as it is too much of a hassle.....man what a lot of nonsense.

To many people putting their heads in the sand and saying this is not a problem.

If it continues with no iron hand tactics then this competition is going to be a disaster.

That's not what I'm saying. My point is that they would need to call the riot police into the stadium and baton the crap out of the guys doing it to get them to move. It would be nearly impossible to get them out of there, would make it impossible for the Dutch to train and would be an international PR disaster for the Polish government. It's easier to look into their faces on film and arrest them once they're identified. You can move individuals or small groups from stadiums for doing this, but you couldn't remove 500 people regardless of the country or your opinions on the issue. Even if the UK there is no way the police could get 500 people out of a stand without a long-lasting violent event and they wouldn't do this. They'd use CCTV to identify the culprits and then try and catch them by identifying them or putting their faces in the papers/on TV.

Well if that is going to be the tactics I sure hope there is no racism at the match's or we might never see a game getting finished,the referee's have the power to stop the game if there is racist chants and take all the players of the park,if they do not do anything but film these guys then the players could not return so then game abandoned....pretty bleak.

Well if that is going to be the tactics I sure hope there is no racism at the match's or we might never see a game getting finished,the referee's have the power to stop the game if there is racist chants and take all the players of the park,if they do not do anything but film these guys then the players could not return so then game abandoned....pretty bleak.

There won't be any during games because the Ultras are boycotting the Euros due to them disagreeing with the event and also high ticket prices. They could cause problems at training due to free entry. Not sure about the Ukraine but it won't happen during matches in Poland. Not among Polish fans at least. The people there will be middle class and sit and watch the game rather than being hardcore nutters.

Just heard from a friend what happened in Lodz in the story posted earlier in this thread. It was not Polish thugs attacking foreigners for fun as the paper suggested. Widzew Lodz have a friendship with CSKA Moscow and the fans of those two clubs were drinking together in the city. This is also why they were speaking English as well as Russian. The LKS hooligans who are the biggest rivals of Widzew then attacked the pub full of their rivals. It was basically a domestic Polish hooligan incident rather than anything to do with the Euros. Doesn't excuse their behavior or justify them doing it, but fans of visiting nations shouldn't feel threatened by it.