Any word on SI's plans for FM13 copy protection?

[Some Guy!]

With the release of Diablo III today, its been hard not to notice the storm of fury surrounding that many users have been unable to play their single player game due to them being unable to connect to the Diablo III servers. I for one have little to no issue with steam as it allows users to be able to play their games whilst offline once they are installed and verified, however if there are any plans to move to a system similar to the one used by Diablo III I'd be forced boycott the Football Manager series and SI until they drop such measures.

So yeah, I'm basically just asking if there is any word on whether SI are going to keep the system the same as FM12 for FM13.

[FrazT]

To my knowledge, SI and SEGA have never given prior notice of the means of activation before the Demo is released, so I doubt if we will hear for some months yet.

[Some Guy!]

Do you think there is any chance of them reassuring us before then?

[edgar555]

The TV advert for Diablo 3 clearly states an internet connection is required. This may sound harsh but it's just tough for those that fail to read what is a fairly obvious statement.
I can't see SI changing from Steam. They love it.

[FrazT]

Personally, I doubt it- all we know is from what the SI/SEGA staff have said on here that , despite some issues with steam, they were reasonably happy with the activation run out and I dont think there will be many changes made this year.

[!.m.!]

Is an FM 13 confirmed?

[Some Guy!]

The TV advert for Diablo 3 clearly states an internet connection is required. This may sound harsh but it's just tough for those that fail to read what is a fairly obvious statement.
I can't see SI changing from Steam. They love it.

I know, and I haven't bought the game. However, I am worried that other game producers might try the same, hence why I'm asking.

Personally, I doubt it- all we know is from what the SI/SEGA staff have said on here that , despite some issues with steam, they were reasonably happy with the activation run out and I dont think there will be many changes made this year.

I hope they stick with Steam, it is a good platform and it has been shown to be effective. Again though, if they try anything like what Blizzard tried with Diablo III, I wouldn't even consider buying the game.

[Liniert]

Hopefully its with steam again, although with the news that Sega is partnering with Origin there is the potential for Origin exclusivity for Sega.

[CLS]

Wasn't there reports of SEGA as a whole moving to Origin?

[Super Bladesman]

Is an FM 13 confirmed?

Not yet, to my knowledge.

[Super Bladesman]

Funnily enough, Miles has just said on his Facebook that FM13 is being worked on but that there won't be any announcements until late August at the earliest

[Some Guy!]

Hopefully its with steam again, although with the news that Sega is partnering with Origin there is the potential for Origin exclusivity for Sega.

Oh dear...

[hugo_rune]

If they go with Origin exclusivity, I might pass on FM13. Can't stand Origin's interface - although I did grudgingly install it so I could play Mass Effect 3. Steam feels much more streamlined for some reason.

I have no qualms about SI including DRM, obviously. Pre-release piracy kills game developers, and a bit of inconvenience - barely noticeable for me personally - is a small price to pay to avoid that.

[Some Guy!]

If they go with Origin exclusivity, I might pass on FM13. Can't stand Origin's interface - although I did grudgingly install it so I could play Mass Effect 3. Steam feels much more streamlined for some reason.

I may actually join you in a little boycott if they choose to go with Origin.

[rancer890]

I like Steam, but no way in hell I'm installing that malware known as Origin on my laptop. I trust Valve. I don't trust EA at all with all that sneaky ToS a while back.

And I like Steam sales, so please, keep FM13 on Steam.

[Redbyrd]

Is an FM 13 confirmed?

I heard that due to superstitions about the number thirteen it is going going to be called "Ultimate Football Manager".

[Swindon69]

Ah a classic game.

[RBKalle]

The whole DRM thing is a disgrace and I'm shocked it's getting the rule rather than the exception with the blessing (or the silent, reluctant support) of most fans.

If I'm forced to pay for a "digital copy" which is basically a glorified lease of the software, I expect to pay it much less than the real thing.
My right can be suspended or revoked at a hat's drop, even if I don't do something wrong...

Steam-only activation was already pushing it IMO (I buy my physical copy of FM, I want to be free to activate it ONCE and forget about Steam, online/offline mode etc), so should SEGA/SI go for something even more choice-crippling than that, they and FM can go eff themselves.

Piracy is an excuse and a card to play in order to justify corporate greed and to push for a monopolistic market of videogames.


I really hope SEGA/SI take one step backwards and allow for a one-off activation of FM2013 without forcing people to install and run Steam or any other intrusive platform.

Want me to buckle under your DRM? Cut the price by 50% from day 1 and we can talk about it

[TOUGHGUY]

If I'm forced to pay for a "digital copy" which is basically a glorified lease of the software, I expect to pay it much less than the real thing.
My right can be suspended or revoked at a hat's drop, even if I don't do something wrong...

The physical copy operates under more or less the same constraints, though. Yes, ultimately noone is coming to break your CD, but since you talk about rights and theory then you are still pretty much only leasing the game and there is little difference, except for the medium used.

[Kriss]

Any speculation on this is about 3 months too early atm, personally I don't see it changing.

[Ackter]

The real thing is the program, not the medium it comes on ffs.

[x42bn6]

The real thing is the program, not the medium it comes on ffs.

When you purchase the product, you also purchase the DRM. So it makes sense to scrutinise the DRM solution.

It's the reason why some games like Assassin's Creed and Spore were rightly criticised for their restrictive DRM.

[Ackter]

Yeah, as usual that had absolutely nothing to do with what was said. Stop that.

[endtime]

Origin = no purchase for me. I don't care if the game ships with booze and hookers, I'm not letting it anywhere near my system.

[x42bn6]

Yeah, as usual that had absolutely nothing to do with what was said. Stop that.

Didn't read your post there, apologies...

[RBKalle]

The real thing is the program, not the medium it comes on ffs.

Sure but if I buy a physical copy with no restrictions in use besides the actual presence of the disc in the drive I have more "rights" than if I'm paying to get a digital copy whose use can be subjected to factors out of my control.

When I buy a car I can drive it the way I see fit (as long as I respect the law and the road user code)

With DRM it's as if I'm renting the car for an unlimited amount of time but the the rental provider can decide "it's Sunday and it's rainy outside, you can't drive today"


Anyway I know such a debate is both Off Topic and definitely a touchy subject in here... So, as proved by the long (and troubled) debate about Steam last fall, there's no use insisting, because, as Virgil said to Charon

"So 't is will'd where will and power are one / and ask thou no more"

[Ackter]

No, you actually don't. The T&Cs are identical.

Analogies are all rubbish and should never actually be used in order to try and make any point.

[x42bn6]

They're not always the same. If you purchase a product that does not require Steam (and you use that product), then you are not bound by Steam's terms and conditions. So if you have a choice between Steam and non-Steam, the terms and conditions are very unlikely to be the same (unless for some odd reason the product's terms and conditions includes Steam's terms and conditions).

Analogies are not useless. Analogies are used all the time in learning, to "dumb down" ideas. False analogies are the useless ones.

[RBKalle]

No, you actually don't. The T&Cs are identical.

Are you ACTUALLY claiming the ToS of, say, CM2, CM4, FM2007, FM2012 and Diablo III are the same?!

[CaptainPlanet]

I don't care about DRM, never have, never will and can't understand for the life of me why so many people are so strongly against it.

I only care about the game actually being any good, which it probably won't be.

[Kriss]

Car analogies are the useless ones honestly, why are you all getting worked up?

We aren't going to know what FM13 will use for months yet and if this is a general discussion on DRM (and the value of analogies) then it belongs in OTF, not here.

[skinny7]

The whole DRM thing is a disgrace and I'm shocked it's getting the rule rather than the exception with the blessing (or the silent, reluctant support) of most fans.

If I'm forced to pay for a "digital copy" which is basically a glorified lease of the software, I expect to pay it much less than the real thing.
My right can be suspended or revoked at a hat's drop, even if I don't do something wrong...

Steam-only activation was already pushing it IMO (I buy my physical copy of FM, I want to be free to activate it ONCE and forget about Steam, online/offline mode etc), so should SEGA/SI go for something even more choice-crippling than that, they and FM can go eff themselves.

Piracy is an excuse and a card to play in order to justify corporate greed and to push for a monopolistic market of videogames.


I really hope SEGA/SI take one step backwards and allow for a one-off activation of FM2013 without forcing people to install and run Steam or any other intrusive platform.

Want me to buckle under your DRM? Cut the price by 50% from day 1 and we can talk about it

i couldnt agree more to be honest. sad but true

[Kriss]

Enough, as people can't take even a very broad hint this is closed.

As said if you want a general discussion on DRM do it in OTF, if you want to discuss FM13 DRM come back in a couple of months minimum.

[SCIAG]

Edit: sorry Kriss, started writing this before you closed the thread.

Ultimately from SI's perspective Steam activation has worked brilliantly, they've had a few issues (Mac users who upgraded their OS being locked out, users being accused of piracy, people not being able to access the game occasionally, Steam randomly forgetting it is in offline mode), but from their point of view piracy is down, sales are up, and the vast, vast majority of users are playing on the latest update which makes it easier to fix bugs. The customers they lose who don't want Steam being intrusive or locking them out are minimal compared to those who can't pirate the game, so it is the right business decision (in a simple, purely money-based outlook).

[Kriss]

No prob, that's probably an excellent way to round off the discussion for now, my money is on Steam again (I have no inside knowledge) when we do know we'll have a point for discussion.