I see the difference, but I don't see the facts. I see your interpreations of the facts.
I suspect a lot of youth players got their chance by lack of other options.
As I say - there's not really much you can do about it now for the game. There are no more patches.
The best thing to do is bring it up in the Data thread.
I don't agree that he should be hamstrung into a career of a mediocre footballer.
I personally think he has what it takes to be the best. But that's my opinion.
Not sure I'm fully buying that line yet but based on the limited times I've seen him in TV he has looked tidy but rather unspectacular.
And I do hope they introduce a new for youth players to be evaluated.
Opportunity for their PA to grow. It's not right it's "set".
Or their pa to shrink!
[QUOTE=Barside;7811975the Arsenal fans I know who go to the games are starting to question whether Ramsey will offer enough threat in the attacking third of the pitch .[/QUOTE]
I was at the emirates 5 times last season. I'm not even an Arsenal fan. But they boo every chance they get. No matter what. WORST fans I've ever come across.
That's my opinion. But I don't see hostility towards the players. I've been to Barca, Real, Inter, AC, LFC, and a few others last season.
What I know is that the Arsenal fans are so harsh on the team. They feel the pressure as soon as they walk out. They should feel relaxed and have a 12th man.
If a player cannot handle pressure he will never be a great player.
Thanks for handing me that one.
But a PA of 200 does not = a CA of 200
Nor does a PA of 170 - a CA of 170
Remind me, when was WW2? How old would Sir Stanley Matthews have been during that time?
As I pointed out earlier he didn't receive any honours until his 30's because they didn't exists before then & if you knew your football history you would understand why he doesn't have anywhere near the number of league titles or cup winner's medals you'd expect of a player with his talent to have.
Stanley Mathews is a bad example based on whatever criteria you hold players to be.
I've cited many other players. Go pick on them.
Let's get back on topic.
Ramsey is 21. He's got every chance of becoming a world class player than anyone else who plays regular first team football for a club of of top stature.
You'll be pleased to know that I am no longer bothering with you.
Last edited by Barside; 12-05-2012 at 23:27.
Oh no! Whatever will I do?
I'll tell you who is probably the most high-profile simlar-ish type of player to Ramsey that we can use. Ozil.
Okay, so Ozil is a few months older than Ramsey, but has achieved so much more in his career to date than Ramsey. Why is he not a -10? Why does Ramsey (potentially) have a higher PA than him?
Personally I'd give Ramsey a PA of 160.
I'd also like to point out that davehanson is speaking a lot of sense, and that various other members are speaking the exact opposition of that.
In that regard why do you hold Ozil to such high esteem?
Ozil? What's he done?
Ozil is idolised by Real Madrid fans, who are notoriously incredibly hard to please. He's had over 20 assists for 4 seasons straight. He's one of the best players in the World. Ramsey is barely a Premier League standard player.
World cup semi-final. One of the best players of the 2010 world cup. Played in every single game at the world cup. Scored goals at the world cup and assisted numerous times. Was nominated for the golden ball at the world cup.
This year has won the La Liga with Madrid. Has more assists in Spain than anyone else and was on the shortlist of Ballon D'or.
Quite simply his performances in the games he has played have been outstanding.
yeh - something at Wales that Ramsey won't get to experience.
Are you honestly saying that because Ramsey has played as many games, perhaps even more, than either Xavi or Iniesta at the same age (21), that is the reason, and the sole reason, you are suggesting that he keeps his -10 and deserves to be thought of as a potentially world class player?
I haven't got anything to weigh against him???
At 21 - he's played same and performed same...
I've dared you... nothing
I'm sure Ramsey had been given a fixed PA of 175 after the January update instead of the -10. Can anyone confirm?
Well, I am off to bed now.
But Eugene, if you are struggling to compare Ramsey to Ozil, you could try:
Any of the above should give you a good idea of how great Ramsey is at this stage of his career. Night.
I would have to agree with davehanson & Nocuous etc. regarding Ramsey. I haven't seen the potential in him IRL that his PA in the game suggests he has. Even 175 is too high imo but I guess its opinions at the end of the day.
None of this would have happened if PA were ditched as a limit.
Stop feeding the troll. He obviously puts more weight to stats which have far too many variables to use as solid evidence.
Will Ramsay become one of the best midfielders of his generation? Doubtfull. He probably won't even be the best midfielder at Arsenal.
As has been said, if he's worthy of -10 then a lot of other players are as well.
His -10 rating was due to his injury, personally at Cardiff he was a -9 at best.
Yes. 175. Well nice football chat guys, but the researchers seem to be on top of it.
Besides I would actually prefer fixed PA be scrapped for 'real' players and they all be given a -9, 10 potential. I would like to see the range of - potentials be reduced to a maximum of 20 points so -10 would be from 180-200. This would add a sense of individuality to every new game.
Newgens could be fixed for obvious reasons.
i have no problem with aaron ramsey being a -10. i DO have a problem with ONLY aaron ramsey being a -10
what about the other leagues? how come aaron ramsey gets a -10 but players like federico viviani don't?
-10 guarantees a player future world class status (170+ is good enough to start for any team in the world, even barca). i don't think it should be given to one single player. either give it to several, or don't give it to anyone
I do think Ramsey will be a very good midfielder. He's already a starter for one of the best teams in Europe.
What more do you want?
If 170+ is good enough to start at Barca, surely it's good enough to start at Arsenal?
He's not below 170, I tell you that.
And I wasn't the one that brought up the other players.
People were saying that he is no Xavi or Iniesta. But he's played roughly the same amount of games for Arsenal at the age of 21 as they did for Barcelona.
He's got some good skills. He's young. And he has a very high potential. If he didn't then he wouldn't be playing first team football at Arsenal, one of the best teams in the world.
There's nothing wrong with Eugene's thoughts... He is perhaps just a "little" more optimistic than most of us.
But then again, that comes with the issue that none of us have a crystal ball...
Is this still going? My word.
No you didn't bring up the case of other players, but you actually still haven't answered if you feel he has shown as much potential in the games he has played as the players I mentioned a few posts up. I don't think he has. I think he is very lucky that Arsenal have a relatively weak midfield (either through players being sold/loaned ala Fabreagas & Asharvin, or out through injury). I think if Arsenal had a stronger midfield then he wouldn't have got half the game time that he did this season. In the games he has played he has looked slow, not good at making decisions when he was put under pressure and quite shy in taking responsibility for trying to put his stamp, for trying to dominate the opposition. To me that is not a sign of a great future player.
On current form and current showing I would argue that he hasn't done enough to warrant anything more than a PA of 160 (which still makes him a good player in the future). If you start bumping him up to 170+ you are getting into the fact that he could be potentially as good as Mascherano, Busquets or even Xavi Alonso are at the moment, and I would say he has shown nothing to suggest he has that kind of potential ability.
Stats and performances are two different things. Arshavin was Arsenal's top assists player a couple of seasons back depsite being woeful for the most part. But most people know this
This thread is just going round in circles now, so keep on topic, without the personal comments or it will be closed.
spoiler:so do players like pjanic, de jong (ajax), and the bender brothers. so why does ramsey get a -10 whereas pjanic gets a locked PA of a mere 160
why do thiago and eriksen get -9 and ramsey get -10?
again, i'm not saying ramsey's overrated, i think he's as talented as the likes of pjanic/dejong/thiago/eriksen. i'm just asking why ramsey gets singled out as the only player in the game with a -10 PA. if more players were given -10, or if no players were given the -10, we wouldn't be having this discussion
Last edited by ilCuoreDiRoma; 14-05-2012 at 23:30.