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Thread: Fire Fire?!?

  1. #1
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    Default Fire Fire?!?

    Well either the fans of Suwon are protesting and want to burn the place down or its a flare!



    Has anyone else seen this?

  2. #2
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    It's a flare. Haven't seen one in my game yet, but apparently they're quite common higher up the leagues.

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    Flares are a huge annoyance. I see them several times each game. Had the same thing happened in real life my club would have been relegated and fined so heavily they would have gone bankrupt.

    Remove flares - instead make a manager that that gesticulates during the match

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikker View Post
    Flares are a huge annoyance. I see them several times each game. Had the same thing happened in real life my club would have been relegated and fined so heavily they would have gone bankrupt.

    Remove flares - instead make a manager that that gesticulates during the match
    Not sure which planet you're from but no club has received that punishment for having flares in the stadium. In most European nations they are seen every week in stadia especially in Germany, Italy and CEE nations. They are part of football so should be in the game. Only problem with them is that they always go off at random times and often from sectors that are clearly where families would sit. In reality they tend to go off in ultras sectors either when there is a big goal or if they are doing some sort of choreo. Should be multiple flares going off together in the same location rather than one or two at random times.

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    I watched streams of some of the Poland Cup matches and it really looked like the Stadium was burning down once the flares were lit on the home end. There was no way the people in the stands could see the action the smoke was so thick. Just crazy but they scored right after the flares were lit.

    This was a different match and the smoke was a lot worse than this...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A49dAYOI2YE

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    I've never understood the facination of lighting flares at a football match so no one else can watch the match because the stadium is now filled with smoke.

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    Seen loads tbh...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niebiescy View Post
    In reality they tend to go off in ultras sectors either when there is a big goal or if they are doing some sort of choreo. Should be multiple flares going off together in the same location rather than one or two at random times.
    This, it's a ice little graphical feature that I'd like to see being implemented in a more realistic manner, if the plan is to keep it as is then it should be removed.

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    We gon' light this place on fire, without a match or lighter...

    A flare.

    On a serious note I agree with Barside ^^

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikker View Post

    Remove flares - instead make a manager that that gesticulates during the match
    But we're the manager, we shouldn't be able to see ourselves.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Paeth View Post
    I watched streams of some of the Poland Cup matches and it really looked like the Stadium was burning down once the flares were lit on the home end. There was no way the people in the stands could see the action the smoke was so thick. Just crazy but they scored right after the flares were lit.

    This was a different match and the smoke was a lot worse than this...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A49dAYOI2YE
    As someone who regular attends Polish football matches I'd have to say not many people care about whether they can see the game from the ultras sector of most stadia. Same as away sectors. Fans are there more to create an atmosphere and improve their reputation and have fun rather than to just sit there and watch a match. Not saying that the fans don't watch the game, but it isn't their only concentration like it is for example in England. Lots of people also go to games more to watch the ultras and see what type of displays they can come up with rather than to watch the football which in crap. I often go to a game and barely watch anything. It's just normal in Polish football culture. Here's a video to show some choreos/pyro from the Polish league.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Niebiescy View Post
    Not sure which planet you're from but no club has received that punishment for having flares in the stadium. In most European nations they are seen every week in stadia especially in Germany, Italy and CEE nations. They are part of football so should be in the game. Only problem with them is that they always go off at random times and often from sectors that are clearly where families would sit. In reality they tend to go off in ultras sectors either when there is a big goal or if they are doing some sort of choreo. Should be multiple flares going off together in the same location rather than one or two at random times.
    Don't be ignorant. Clubs in Europe have been fined when fans have used flares in stadium. I know for sure that in England, Denmark and UEFA cup tournaments it's illegal to use flares and clubs will be fined. E.g FC København was fined 5000 euro for using fireworks (flares) in a game against Hannover. Hannover was fined 10000 euro for using fireworks.
    Also in Denmark clubs will eventually get points deducted.

    So yes, if my club was fined according to international and national standards my club would have been relegated and gone bankrupt by now.

    Quote Originally Posted by !.m.! View Post
    But we're the manager, we shouldn't be able to see ourselves.
    Off course we should be able to see ourself. We can see the players warming up. We can see the bench but there's no manager...

  13. #13

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    So you would be relegated because of a tiny fine of around £5,000 which is what clubs in top divisions usually receive? In lower leagues fines are far smaller or non-existant. Not sure how my comment is ignorant. No top division club would go bankrupt for that type of fine in any league.

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    No, because the fans keep setting the stadium on fire each and every game. The fines will get bigger and bigger and eventually points will get deducted as well.

    Your post were ignorant in the way you started the post. And already now you contradict yourself by saying clubs do get fined...

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    With all this talk of starting fires, my mind wandered off...


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    Clubs get fined tiny amounts and nobody cares. Fines don't increase. The fans have no respect for UEFA or the FA and will continue to do as they wish. They don't recognise the authority of such organisations and don't respect them because of the way they run their business. If fines are so small that they don't cause the clubs any problems at all. No clubs have had points deducted because of flares. In Germany fans are even allowed to use them under controlled circumstances in their ultras sectors as agreed with the league. That is totally legal. Not sure which country you are from but clearly not one that has flares. Not sure how I contradicted myself?

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    In Denmark (and UEFA as well - don't know about England) fines will get larger and eventually points will get deducted. That's a fact.
    What fans respect or don't respect really doesn't concern me as it is the clubs that will get punished (eventually fans will get punished by the clubs as it's been done in Denmark).

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikker View Post
    In Denmark (and UEFA as well - don't know about England) fines will get larger and eventually points will get deducted. That's a fact.
    What fans respect or don't respect really doesn't concern me as it is the clubs that will get punished (eventually fans will get punished by the clubs as it's been done in Denmark).
    The fans don't care about being punished though either. There's nothing that can be done. The groups are so large and will not allow security to arrest or kick out anyone who they try to get to. It's not a deterrent at all. The whole purpose of the ultras movement is the rebellion against modern football. That means standing up against organisations such as UEFA or FIFA who are corrupt and also trying to maintain a traditional old school stadium atmosphere rather than becoming like the English Premiership, where everyone sits down like they are in the theatre. Fans groups will basically do anything to achieve these goals. In lots of leagues the ultras are the only people in the stadium and the club can't ban them because they'd have nobody to watch them otherwise. Also the ultras groups organise pretty much every aspect of away games as well as what will happen in the stadium during home games. The power is too great for anyone to do anything about it. This is why insignificant fines are the standard punishment. The FA know that they can't do anything but have to make a token gesture to look like they are taking action.

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    Just because fans are out of control acting totally braindead in Eastern Europe doesn't mean fans act the same way in more civilized parts of Europe.
    In Denmark a few ultras (something like 500 in total for 3-4 clubs) acting violently has resulted in several games where away fans were practically excluded from stadium. That was something the clubs had insured as they were afraid they would get points deducted as they already had been fined several times.
    Because of this (and because most fans have normal functioning brain) these ultras are now seen down upon and fans tell on them if they do something illegal inside the stadium. Real fans doesn't want to see their club get fined and having points deducted!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikker View Post
    Off course we should be able to see ourself. We can see the players warming up. We can see the bench but there's no manager...
    Call me ignorant but that's a silly idea... it would be well annoying seeing some little figure gesticulating in a manner I never would...... trying to be me.... I'm me...

    plus I'm sad enough to actually do actions myself, like shout out to players... hey, it's no worse than the Soccer Saturday punditry I do.... "And there's been a goal at Sandy Lane..." "Unbelieveable, Jeff!"

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikker View Post
    Just because fans are out of control acting totally braindead in Eastern Europe doesn't mean fans act the same way in more civilized parts of Europe.
    In Denmark a few ultras (something like 500 in total for 3-4 clubs) acting violently has resulted in several games where away fans were practically excluded from stadium. That was something the clubs had insured as they were afraid they would get points deducted as they already had been fined several times.
    Because of this (and because most fans have normal functioning brain) these ultras are now seen down upon and fans tell on them if they do something illegal inside the stadium. Real fans doesn't want to see their club get fined and having points deducted!
    They are not out of control. The purpose is not to hurt anyone. The purpose is to avoid a situation like in England or with the top Spanish clubs where ticket prices are out of control, where fans have no ability to make decisions in their own stadium and where they are forced to behave like they are at a theatre or to leave. I think you have missed the point of what ultras are. They have nothing to do with hooliganism or violence. The purpose is to do anything possible to support their club in the most lively way possible. That includes use of pyro which is most of these nations is as much a part of going to football as the actual game. It's about not losing traditions for the sake of money and keeping the stadia lively and exciting rather than quite and full of sit down and clap type fans who are too busy taking photos to support their teams.

  22. #22
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    Be as it is. All I can say with the amount of flares used every game in my current save my club would be "non existent" if real laws were applied. I guess that was start of this (my) discussion (ups, thread takeover)...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niebiescy View Post
    It's about not losing traditions for the sake of money and keeping the stadia lively and exciting rather than quite and full of sit down and clap type fans who are too busy taking photos to support their teams.
    As opposed to worrying more about lighting flares and waving flags and 'choreography' than supporting the team And I don't know what English games you've been to, but I honestly can't ever remember anybody with a camera at any of the games I've been to.

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by afced7 View Post
    As opposed to worrying more about lighting flares and waving flags and 'choreography' than supporting the team And I don't know what English games you've been to, but I honestly can't ever remember anybody with a camera at any of the games I've been to.
    This is supporting the team. Standing and singing for 90 minutes regardless of the score. The choreos are about the club's greatness usually or their opponent and are a boost to the players because of the adrenaline and emotions shown in the work. In England most people sit down. Cameras on phones flash the whole way through games. I've been to tons of English games. English fans were traditionally great but with the modern all-seater stadia and expensive tickets there's far less singing and more people who want to just sit and watch a game.

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    Of course it's difficult for people in western parts of Europe to understand ultras culture because you don't see it every day. The point is to build up the atmosphere and have fun. In Poznań there's a stand called Kocioł where people support Lech throughout the whole match, even if they're 3:0 down. From what I see, people in England sing only if their team dominates the match and is sure to win. You can't watch the game in Kocioł, because its purpose is to have fun and support the team. Recently ultras flushed out the watchers by waving flags all over the stand, making it impossible to see the pitch. If you want to watch the match, you can do it on the TV, stadium is for supporting your team. Our government tries to fight with it, but they're unable to do anything. A year ago they shut down two stadia after Polish Cup final. 10.000 Lech fans turned up and supported their team standing in front of the empty stadium by singing for 90 minutes. That's just pure passion, flares are a part of it. We're against modern football and silly restrictions. Football is made for the people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikulec View Post
    Of course it's difficult for people in western parts of Europe to understand ultras culture because you don't see it every day. The point is to build up the atmosphere and have fun. In Poznań there's a stand called Kocioł where people support Lech throughout the whole match, even if they're 3:0 down. From what I see, people in England sing only if their team dominates the match and is sure to win. You can't watch the game in Kocioł, because its purpose is to have fun and support the team. Recently ultras flushed out the watchers by waving flags all over the stand, making it impossible to see the pitch. If you want to watch the match, you can do it on the TV, stadium is for supporting your team. Our government tries to fight with it, but they're unable to do anything. A year ago they shut down two stadia after Polish Cup final. 10.000 Lech fans turned up and supported their team standing in front of the empty stadium by singing for 90 minutes. That's just pure passion, flares are a part of it. We're against modern football and silly restrictions. Football is made for the people.
    Comments like these make me wonder where some "fans" park their most vital organ.
    If football is made for the people then what is families, fans that come to watch the game and cheer, the casual fan? Not people?
    What makes you guys the übermensch that decide who can and who cannot go to the stadium and watch their favourite team play?

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niebiescy View Post
    This is supporting the team. Standing and singing for 90 minutes regardless of the score. The choreos are about the club's greatness usually or their opponent and are a boost to the players because of the adrenaline and emotions shown in the work. In England most people sit down. Cameras on phones flash the whole way through games. I've been to tons of English games. English fans were traditionally great but with the modern all-seater stadia and expensive tickets there's far less singing and more people who want to just sit and watch a game.
    Maybe in some Premier League clubs, but to say that about any lower league teams, or a team like Newcastle United who have fans singing for 90% of the match, is just plain nonsense. I have been a season ticket holder for 4/5 years now at a decent level team and I can safely say that in my area the only camera flashes are directed at other supporters when the atmosphere is good.

    Also I'm not quite sure the fans turning their backs and smoking out the entire stadium would fill me with confidence as a player, but then again...
    Quote Originally Posted by Rikulec View Post
    Of course it's difficult for people in western parts of Europe to understand ultras culture because you don't see it every day. The point is to build up the atmosphere and have fun. In Poznań there's a stand called Kocioł where people support Lech throughout the whole match, even if they're 3:0 down. From what I see, people in England sing only if their team dominates the match and is sure to win. You can't watch the game in Kocioł, because its purpose is to have fun and support the team. Recently ultras flushed out the watchers by waving flags all over the stand, making it impossible to see the pitch. If you want to watch the match, you can do it on the TV, stadium is for supporting your team. Our government tries to fight with it, but they're unable to do anything. A year ago they shut down two stadia after Polish Cup final. 10.000 Lech fans turned up and supported their team standing in front of the empty stadium by singing for 90 minutes. That's just pure passion, flares are a part of it. We're against modern football and silly restrictions. Football is made for the people.
    Bits in bold are patent nonsense.

    1. Contrary to poular belief most people stay to the end, especially in mediocre team's stadiums. I have seen my team get pumped so many times and have never either left early or stopped supporting my team.

    2. When you supported a team like mine if you only sang during victories you would never sing at all. You just seem to be stereotyping based on watching Arsenal matches on satellite.

    3. How do you suggest I watch my team on the TV? No way of watching regular kick off games on the box, so once again you are talking out of your arse.

    4. Yeah, sod modern football, bring back Heysel and knifings and short shorts and mud and long-ball play and FLARES!!!

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikker View Post
    Comments like these make me wonder where some "fans" park their most vital organ.
    If football is made for the people then what is families, fans that come to watch the game and cheer, the casual fan? Not people?
    What makes you guys the übermensch that decide who can and who cannot go to the stadium and watch their favourite team play?
    He isn't saying that fans decide who's allowed into the stadium. There are ultras sectors and then sectors for families or people who don't sing. You do not stand in the ultras sector if you don't want to sing. Otherwise you will be asked to leave. It's as simple as that. There are plenty of places for people who don't sing in the seated areas. Nobody is forced to leave the stadium or not allowed in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niebiescy View Post
    He isn't saying that fans decide who's allowed into the stadium. There are ultras sectors and then sectors for families or people who don't sing. You do not stand in the ultras sector if you don't want to sing. Otherwise you will be asked to leave. It's as simple as that. There are plenty of places for people who don't sing in the seated areas. Nobody is forced to leave the stadium or not allowed in.
    Here you go
    Quote Originally Posted by Rikulec View Post
    If you want to watch the match, you can do it on the TV, stadium is for supporting your team. Our government tries to fight with it, but they're unable to do anything. A year ago they shut down two stadia after Polish Cup final. 10.000 Lech fans turned up and supported their team standing in front of the empty stadium by singing for 90 minutes. That's just pure passion, flares are a part of it. We're against modern football and silly restrictions. Football is made for the people.

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown Hacker View Post
    Maybe in some Premier League clubs, but to say that about any lower league teams, or a team like Newcastle United who have fans singing for 90% of the match, is just plain nonsense. I have been a season ticket holder for 4/5 years now at a decent level team and I can safely say that in my area the only camera flashes are directed at other supporters when the atmosphere is good.

    Also I'm not quite sure the fans turning their backs and smoking out the entire stadium would fill me with confidence as a player, but then again...

    Bits in bold are patent nonsense.

    1. Contrary to poular belief most people stay to the end, especially in mediocre team's stadiums. I have seen my team get pumped so many times and have never either left early or stopped supporting my team.

    2. When you supported a team like mine if you only sang during victories you would never sing at all. You just seem to be stereotyping based on watching Arsenal matches on satellite.

    3. How do you suggest I watch my team on the TV? No way of watching regular kick off games on the box, so once again you are talking out of your arse.

    4. Yeah, sod modern football, bring back Heysel and knifings and short shorts and mud and long-ball play and FLARES!!!
    Lower league fans are definitely far better than Premiership fans. No doubt about that. I'm half English half Polish (one parent from each country) so know both leagues well. I grew up supporting a conference club and probably around 1/3 of the people in the terraced area behind the goal sung. We were pretty decent for our level. I still wouldn't say it's close to what you'd see at the same level in Poland in terms of atmosphere and noise. Definitely far better than going to a premiership game for sure though. I've been to St James Park and thought the fans were pretty crap tbh. It's a massive stadium and some pockets do sing but was mostly quiet. I'll be neutral and compare it to the best atmospheres in Germany and it's not even close. In Germany it's E15 for a ticket in the terraced sectors, which means they are full of fans and everyone sings and stands for the whole game. To watch league 2 in England costs more than that, which affects who attends the game.

    It's completely different level to anything in England. Here's an example from Dortmund who have the biggest terrace in Europe.



    Unknown Hacker I'm not sure why you have knifings and Heysel in the same sentence as flares. Pretty much every nation has a code where fans don't knife each other. Haven't heard anything about knives in a stadium? Flares don't hurt anyone apart from the extremely rare occasion where some idiot brings a shipping flare at shoots it, but that barely ever happens as in you hear about it maybe once per year globally. Flares just add to the atmosphere.

    Also turning your back does actually add to the atmosphere. When you are doing it people may think it's pointless but if you watch from a distance you will see the visual effect that it has. Watch this video of my favorite team playing in the Polish Cup final. I was there and it was amazing. The game was over after 20 minutes and our players were dreadful but we carried on singing and out-sung Legia who won the game. You can also see on this video the visual effects of turning your back and jumping.


  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikker View Post
    Here you go
    Yes but he is making a general statement about his opinion on people who don't add to the atmosphere. He isn't saying that people who don't sing aren't allowed in. For example if you watch his team Lech if you go behind the goals you have to sing because these are the ultras sectors. If you go in the main stand nobody cares if you sit and just watch the game. He is saying that people who don't sing aren't wanted on their terrace and that he doesn't see the point in going to a game and not doing anything to support your team, not that you will be banned or told to leave for it.

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    Ye, seen flares before.
    See them all the time when my team goes to Porto in the Champions league.

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    I think atmosphere at most Stadia in England is poor unless it's a rivalry game. I'm a Wolves fan and games at Molinuex might as well be in a library. I only see life in fans in the away end. Also, when I go to away games I find the home fans quiet and boring, even at St. James' or Sports Direct, if you prefer. My mates who support local teams also hate the boring atmosphere at home games. I was listening to TalkSport the other day and Collymore was bemoaning the situation in modern day Stadia. I want families and kids there to enjoy the sport, but being loud and chanting and maybe even lighting the odd flare in a designated area of the ground doesn't equal violence or danger. I even saw more life in MLS games!

  34. #34
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    i see this every fixture in Serie A in FM

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    What I was saying about coming to the stadium and singing was just my opinion, not the description of actual situation. Niebiescy explained it really well, but I still think you won't feel the atmosphere if you don't take part in it by standing and supporting your team. There's no difference between sitting quietly at the stadium and sitting quietly at home in front of your TV. Modern football is trying to make ultras disappear, that's natural they'll be against it.

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    I bloody hate football

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