+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 40 of 40

Thread: What is going on with the finances?

  1. #1
    Amateur
    Join Date
    12th April 2008
    Posts
    620

    Default What is going on with the finances?

    I really can't understand why is it so difficult to have a financal model that makes sense.

    At the end of the season my balance is 9m from the CL revenues. It's all good.

    My transfer budget is suddenly at 17m. I don't know why, I had none. And the new season hasn't started yet.

    At the start of the new season I get 20m for TV rights and I ask for 20m transfer budget and 3,9m wage budget (current wage spending is 3,1m) for CL qualification.

    It's all fine I think. My balance is 9m so I will finally be able to build the training facilities expansion and I also have a good transfer budget.

    After I click next and go to see my finances my balance is in the red, 290.000 minus. What on earth is going on?

    I look at the previous month and I have 6,000,000 pounds for ground maintance! What the hell costs so much? The current month, that the minus balanced appeared, it says I have spent 8m for players bought. Indeed I have bought a player. But the amount is not detracted from the transfer budget but from the BALANCE. It's the only logical explanation I can think. That's completely bugged and totally against any logic!

    The board doesn't recognize that in the future it has to pay for the training facilities it has already agreed upon, and now it won't be able to complete them (again). Then it gives my 22m for transfers without taking into account that it will have to spend an abviously bugged 6,000,000m for ground maintance and it's fine to let us operate in the red.

    I have done amazing financing work and everything should be in the green. What the hell am I supposed to do when the board is completely bugged?
    Last edited by TSH; 29-04-2012 at 11:09.

  2. #2
    Amateur
    Join Date
    10th July 2007
    Posts
    200

    Default

    i agree it just doesn't make sense.

  3. #3
    Amateur
    Join Date
    8th March 2012
    Posts
    7

    Default

    The Ground Maintenance is the Training ground upgrade. I had the same thing happen to me until I realised i had upgraded my facilities.

  4. #4
    Reserves
    Join Date
    8th January 2004
    Posts
    10,794

    Default

    Its not SI's fault you don't understand the finances!

    Your balance is your bank account and money paid & received gets taken out of it.

    A budget is not a separate pot of money, its simply the amount the board will allow you spend even if that means going overdrawn.

    Why did you ask for a £20m transfer budget if you only have £9m in the bank?

    You ask for a training facilities upgrade then complain when they pay for it? If you didn't want to spend the money you shouldn't have asked!

    You spent more on players than what you think, well obviously either you or the previous manager have bought players previously in installments and when you pay money it of course goes out of your bank account.


    You have done amazing financing work?? Not in my opinion, you are struggling to understand the basics.

  5. #5
    Semi Pro
    Join Date
    12th May 2009
    Location
    Brentwood, Essex PSN: trumanator7
    Posts
    3,033

    Default

    Cougar has it 100% right. You just don't understand how the finance part of the game works.

  6. #6
    Part-Timer
    Join Date
    31st March 2010
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    1,156

    Default

    The board give you a provisional transfer budget before the revised budget when you have to select seasons expectation. This is why the money spent on players before that point have been removed from your balance but your transfer budget seems alright. If you asked for the upgrade and it is currently being built to be ready this season then you havde already paid for it hence the £6m removed from your balance.

    Your £17m tv rights will be paid over the season (which is does tell you in the message you receive) so you shouldn't expect to see that in your balance. Your transfer budget will usually put you in the red if all spent immediately but that money will be recaptured during the season. Having your finances in the black at the end of the season is more important than during.

  7. #7
    Third Team
    Join Date
    7th March 2007
    Location
    Pro-consumer, anti-DRM. Never be satisfied with any answer. Dig until you drop.
    Posts
    6,608

    Default

    On the flip side, why would the board let you spend into the red, anyway?

    The board should never let you spend more than what is in the bank, and if things like training facilities are built in mid-season, then the board should be smart enough to reduce your budget, too.

  8. #8
    Third Team
    Join Date
    7th August 2007
    Posts
    8,473

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by x42bn6 View Post
    On the flip side, why would the board let you spend into the red, anyway?
    To own a football club you first need to be a successful businessmen & then leave all that business acumen at the door when you buy the club.

    Sounds like the chairmen is willing to gamble the club's financial future on continued league success which in the crazy world of top flight football is a perfectly logical way to go about your business.

  9. #9
    Part-Timer
    Join Date
    31st March 2010
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    1,156

    Default

    Plus a chairman would be able to estimate the annual income and if that is projected to get the club back in the black then there is no real issue.

  10. #10
    Reserves
    Join Date
    4th March 2004
    Location
    Granada, Spain @GranadaCdeF_en & @HeathISF Editor: InsideSpanishFootball.com
    Posts
    10,699

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Barside View Post

    Sounds like the chairmen is willing to gamble the club's financial future...
    Just that for most Spanish clubs.

  11. #11
    Amateur
    Join Date
    12th April 2008
    Posts
    620

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by marty78 View Post
    The board give you a provisional transfer budget before the revised budget when you have to select seasons expectation.
    How is that even remote logical? Why give me a provisional transfer budget, in a period when the transfer window is not open, only to revise this in this future and not take into account current offers?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty78 View Post
    This is why the money spent on players before that point have been removed from your balance but your transfer budget seems alright.
    You understant that this is completely crazy, right? They give me a preliminary budget that I can spend and it shows like transfer budget, but it is actually removed from my balance account when the transfer budget gets revised? Complete bollocks.

    Quote Originally Posted by marty78 View Post
    If you asked for the upgrade and it is currently being built to be ready this season then you havde already paid for it hence the £6m removed from your balance.
    The upgrade will be ready in a year and a half. The club has paid for it so there's no reason for it not to be built, ever, right? The club has already PAID for it.

    Wrong.

    When the time comes and the my general balance is in the red, then the facilities project will be CANCELED. It doesn't matter if I have already paid it the year before! That is why I have already started it 2 times now and it hasn't been built. The board keeps the money but the if the balance is in the red it cancels the whole thing. Absolutely illogical.

    You can't offer me the option of 22m trasfer budget as a season's expectation choice, when this money will be kept by the GENERAL BALANCE, which means making the whole club operate in the red and canceling the project that the board HAS ALREADY AGREED to give the green light!

    It just doesn't make sense.

  12. #12
    Semi Pro
    Join Date
    12th May 2009
    Location
    Brentwood, Essex PSN: trumanator7
    Posts
    3,033

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TSH View Post
    It just doesn't make sense.
    To you, most other people understand it perfectly.

  13. #13
    Third Team
    Join Date
    7th March 2007
    Location
    Pro-consumer, anti-DRM. Never be satisfied with any answer. Dig until you drop.
    Posts
    6,608

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Barside View Post
    To own a football club you first need to be a successful businessmen & then leave all that business acumen at the door when you buy the club.

    Sounds like the chairmen is willing to gamble the club's financial future on continued league success which in the crazy world of top flight football is a perfectly logical way to go about your business.
    "Spending beyond your means" usually implies loading up on debt and not being able to repay it. This is different - this is a club not taking out a loan. The club will end up with no cash in the bank to speak of - that's worse than being loaded with debt.

  14. #14
    Amateur
    Join Date
    12th April 2008
    Posts
    620

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by afced7 View Post
    To you, most other people understand it perfectly.
    It does? How does not building something which you have already paid for makes sense?

    And not only that, now after spending the 22m transfer budget, which the board made available, I'm now 22m in the red in the general balance! Which means the balance will go even more red with the bonuses and other contract clauses each week and month. And of course it means no building of the facilities, which I have ALREADY paid in the previous month!

    Simply unbelievable...

    No team in the world would mess the transfer budget with the general balance that is used for maintance, expansions and general running costs. They are completely different economic branches for a team.
    Last edited by TSH; 29-04-2012 at 19:35.

  15. #15
    Amateur
    Join Date
    21st April 2009
    Location
    Hartlepool,UK
    Posts
    47

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TSH View Post
    It does? How does not building something which you have already paid for makes sense?

    And not only that, now after spending the 22m transfer budget, which the board made available, I'm now 22m in the red in the general balance! Which means the balance will go even more red with the bonuses and other contract clauses each week and month. And of course it means no building of the facilities, which I have ALREADY paid in the previous month!

    Simply unbelievable...

    No team in the world would mess the transfer budget with the general balance that is used for maintance, expansions and general running costs. They are completely different economic branches for a team.
    just reading through a lot of your past posts and what i can tell you is, the only thing illogical here is why you continue to play a game you so obviously have a great many issues with and seem to dislike a LOT... the mind boggles

  16. #16
    Stoke City Researcher
    Join Date
    1st January 2007
    Location
    Nihilism.
    Posts
    3,405

    Default

    They really aren't. I can tell you as the others have done that the money in your balance is for everything. Wages, bonuses, transfer fees, ground maintenance, sponsorship income, loan repayments and all other financial activities.

    Your transfer budget is the amount of money the club are willing to let you spend, regardless of whether you have it or not. Some chairmen will tighten their belts, others will try and spend their way out. If you have a £20m transfer budget and £10m in the bank and you buy a player for £5m upfront your transfer budget goes down to £15m and your £10m goes down to £5m.

    Just to give you an extra bit of assurance for you that it is this way the people telling you are long time players, moderators and a couple of researchers (I think).

  17. #17
    Part-Timer
    Join Date
    31st March 2010
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    1,156

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TSH View Post
    How is that even remote logical? Why give me a provisional transfer budget, in a period when the transfer window is not open, only to revise this in this future and not take into account current offers?

    The transfer window opens on about the 6th June and the new budgets and season expectations are 24th June. If you have current offers that go through after 24th June it will come out of the revised budget. Regardless of when it is completed it will come out of your balance just like every other transfer

    You understant that this is completely crazy, right? They give me a preliminary budget that I can spend and it shows like transfer budget, but it is actually removed from my balance account when the transfer budget gets revised? Complete bollocks.

    Transfer fees always come out of your balance. Transfer budget is just how much of your balance the board will allow you to use.


    The upgrade will be ready in a year and a half. The club has paid for it so there's no reason for it not to be built, ever, right? The club has already PAID for it.

    Wrong.

    When the time comes and the my general balance is in the red, then the facilities project will be CANCELED. It doesn't matter if I have already paid it the year before! That is why I have already started it 2 times now and it hasn't been built. The board keeps the money but the if the balance is in the red it cancels the whole thing. Absolutely illogical.

    You can't offer me the option of 22m trasfer budget as a season's expectation choice, when this money will be kept by the GENERAL BALANCE, which means making the whole club operate in the red and canceling the project that the board HAS ALREADY AGREED to give the green light!

    Right it sounds like you have not paid for it then. IIRC the building costs come out when building(not planning) actually starts. This will happen at the start of June(end of season). This is when you need to have the money available for it not to be cancelled. If you are in the black, which you should be, at the end of the season when all prize monies have been received you shouldn't have a problem. I always ask for upgrades at this time and building starts almost immediately and is completed in oct/nov. Never have cancellations either.

    It just doesn't make sense.
    It does make sense I'm afraid
    Last edited by marty78; 29-04-2012 at 20:02.

  18. #18
    Reserves
    Join Date
    8th January 2004
    Posts
    10,794

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TSH View Post
    It does? How does not building something which you have already paid for makes sense?

    And not only that, now after spending the 22m transfer budget, which the board made available, I'm now 22m in the red in the general balance! Which means the balance will go even more red with the bonuses and other contract clauses each week and month. And of course it means no building of the facilities, which I have ALREADY paid in the previous month!

    Simply unbelievable...

    No team in the world would mess the transfer budget with the general balance that is used for maintance, expansions and general running costs. They are completely different economic branches for a team.

    I smell a troll as I don't believe anyone could be this dumb.

  19. #19
    Semi Pro
    Join Date
    12th May 2009
    Location
    Brentwood, Essex PSN: trumanator7
    Posts
    3,033

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TSH View Post
    And not only that, now after spending the 22m transfer budget, which the board made available, I'm now 22m in the red in the general balance! Which means the balance will go even more red with the bonuses and other contract clauses each week and month. And of course it means no building of the facilities, which I have ALREADY paid in the previous month!
    Yeah, stupid board, forcing you to spend that money. Oh wait, they didn't.

  20. #20
    Amateur
    Join Date
    12th April 2008
    Posts
    620

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by afced7 View Post
    Yeah, stupid board, forcing you to spend that money. Oh wait, they didn't.
    But they are available transfer money. Why won't I spend it since it's what the board made available to me under the label "tranfer money?"

    Since I don't seem to understand, pleas help me.

    Why won't my facilities be built since I have already paid for them?

    edit: Why would the board made 22m that doesn't have available? "Sure, take 22m TRANSFER money ut the whole team will be operating in the red and plunging in the red each month". How does that make sense?

    Wouldn't it be more logical to offer 10m TRANSFER money and keep the other 10m to see the team's day to day affairs through the year?

    p.s. Edit, cougar, don't bother. You're in my ignore list after your behaviour.
    Last edited by TSH; 29-04-2012 at 21:14.

  21. #21
    Semi Pro
    Join Date
    12th May 2009
    Location
    Brentwood, Essex PSN: trumanator7
    Posts
    3,033

    Default

    Because its a reasonable assumption that you can look at your finances and think 'hmmm, I only have 9 million in the bank, perhaps it wouldn't be a great idea to spend 22 million'. Also I have no idea why you assume the facilities won't be built, maybe you should play the rest of the season to find out.

  22. #22
    Amateur
    Join Date
    12th April 2008
    Posts
    620

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by afced7 View Post
    Because its a reasonable assumption that you can look at your finances and think 'hmmm, I only have 9 million in the bank, perhaps it wouldn't be a great idea to spend 22 million'. Also I have no idea why you assume the facilities won't be built, maybe you should play the rest of the season to find out.
    Why wouldn't it be a great idea since the board made them available for transfer money???!

    The facilities don't get built (at least in my game) if I'm in the red when the time comes for building them (despite the fact that I paid for them when I had the money).

  23. #23
    Semi Pro
    Join Date
    12th May 2009
    Location
    Brentwood, Essex PSN: trumanator7
    Posts
    3,033

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TSH View Post
    Why wouldn't it be a great idea since the board made them available for transfer money???!
    Yes but they aren't separate pots of money, which seems to be the thing that is confusing you. Also the board know that going into the red at the start of the season isn't a big deal, since you make it all back at the end of the season anyway.

  24. #24
    Part-Timer
    Join Date
    31st March 2010
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    1,156

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by afced7 View Post
    Yes but they aren't separate pots of money, which seems to be the thing that is confusing you. Also the board know that going into the red at the start of the season isn't a big deal, since you make it all back at the end of the season anyway.
    yeah I think the board are aware of your projected earnings over a season based on the expectations you have agreed to and therefore will allow you to go in the red during it. Some boards are irresponsible though as irl so it is imortant you keep an eye on overall season losses.

  25. #25
    Amateur
    Join Date
    12th April 2008
    Posts
    620

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by afced7 View Post
    Yes but they aren't separate pots of money, which seems to be the thing that is confusing you. Also the board know that going into the red at the start of the season isn't a big deal, since you make it all back at the end of the season anyway.
    How are they not seperate when the transfer money is 22m and the general balance is 9m? Why make available money that don't exist and will result to the club going into the deep red? The logical thing in this situation would be the general balance to be 31m. With the22m available that would leave the general balance with 9m, which would be fine. The problem is not that the club goes into the red, it is tha this "red" affects things in the club, like facilities being built (that you have already paid for them when you are in the green!).

    And why doesn't the board think that going into the red is a big deal when when it will result in the cancellation of the facilities it has already agreed to?

  26. #26
    Amateur
    Join Date
    23rd November 2011
    Posts
    166

    Default

    What are you talking about? The transfer budget is NOT some extra source of transfer money separate from your balance. The money used for transfers always comes out from your balance as that is your source of available funds, and the transfer budget is the amount of money from your balance that the board are willing to spend that year. The reason why some teams will have a transfer budget higher than their balance is because they're taking the amount of income you're going to make in the year when they set that budget.

    Also, as other people have already mentioned, just because the board is willing to let you spend some amount, does not mean you have to. Its how teams get into trouble both in the game and real life because if you spend all the money you're allowed to, you're most likely going to operate in the red. Teams with sugar daddies like Man City will be fine (I think the figures are they're losing about 100M per year since the sheikh took over or something like that), but teams that can't handle that kind of debt continuously will go into administration like Rangers.

    edit: To use a crude example, from your last post you're thinking that the board is essentially handing you a savings account of 9 mil (balance) and 22 mil (transfer budget), but that's not the case. The real situation is that you just have one account of 9 million, and they're willing to let you spend 22 million over the season on transfers because they believe that that's how much money they'll have availble for the year when taking into account all the income and expenses.
    Last edited by slich; 29-04-2012 at 21:40.

  27. #27
    Amateur
    Join Date
    12th April 2008
    Posts
    620

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by slich View Post
    What are you talking about? The transfer budget is NOT some extra source of transfer money separate from your balance. The money used for transfers always comes out from your balance as that is your source of available funds, and the transfer budget is the amount of money from your balance that the board are willing to spend that year. The reason why some teams will have a transfer budget higher than their balance is because they're taking the amount of income you're going to make in the year when they set that budget.

    Also, as other people have already mentioned, just because the board is willing to let you spend some amount, does not mean you have to. Its how teams get into trouble both in the game and real life because if you spend all the money you're allowed to, you're going to operate in the red. Teams with sugar daddies like Man City will be fine (I think the figures are they're losing about 100M per year since the sheikh took over or something like that), but teams that can't handle that kind of debt continuously will go into administration like Rangers.
    How can I NOT spend them when the board makes them available??

    I have already PAID for my facilities and the board makes 22m available! Am I to think as a player and as a manager that the money the board OFFERS for transfer will bring the club in the red and will result in the cancellation of the facilities upgrade???

    That's beyond absurd!

  28. #28
    Semi Pro
    Join Date
    12th May 2009
    Location
    Brentwood, Essex PSN: trumanator7
    Posts
    3,033

    Default

    TSH, go on the finance screen and click expenditures. Then hover over the bit that says players bought. Hopefully you now understand that they aren't separate piles of money.

  29. #29
    Semi Pro
    Join Date
    12th May 2009
    Location
    Brentwood, Essex PSN: trumanator7
    Posts
    3,033

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TSH View Post
    How can I NOT spend them when the board makes them available??
    By not buying players. I'm done with this though, you're either trolling or just stupid.

  30. #30
    Part-Timer
    Join Date
    31st March 2010
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    1,156

    Default

    If your balance is £9m and your Transfer budget is £22m then the board will allow you to run £13m in the red. If your in European competition then that should be no problem and wil be re-couped in time for the facility upgrade. I personally always keep in the black. If I have a balance of £10m then that is my transfer budget regardless of what the board offer but that is just personal preferance.

  31. #31
    Amateur
    Join Date
    12th April 2008
    Posts
    620

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by marty78 View Post
    If your balance is £9m and your Transfer budget is £22m then the board will allow you to run £13m in the red. If your in European competition then that should be no problem and wil be re-couped in time for the facility upgrade. I personally always keep in the black. If I have a balance of £10m then that is my transfer budget regardless of what the board offer but that is just personal preferance.
    Thanks Marty. Shouldn't the facilities be built though since the money have already been paid?

    You have 9m. You give 6m for the facilities (it appears in the expenditure) so you are left with 3m in the general balance (the 22m transfer budget remains). Why don't the facilities get built if you are in the red a year after?

    If the 6m that you prepay is iconic then why does it get detracted from your earlier balance?

    edit: afced, ignored.
    Last edited by TSH; 29-04-2012 at 22:13.

  32. #32
    Reserves
    Join Date
    8th January 2004
    Posts
    10,794

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TSH View Post
    p.s. Edit, cougar, don't bother. You're in my ignore list after your behaviour.

    You've been ignoring me for the last six months anyway when I've answered your questions and given you advice


    Hence the reason I believe you are trolling, you aren't interested in posts that answer your questions.

  33. #33
    Semi Pro
    Join Date
    12th May 2009
    Location
    Brentwood, Essex PSN: trumanator7
    Posts
    3,033

    Default

    Cougar, why are you bothering, the guy has the mental age of a toddler.

    If the 6m that you prepay is iconic then why does it get detracted from your earlier balance?
    What does this even mean?!

  34. #34
    Amateur
    Join Date
    2nd November 2008
    Location
    I had a wheelbarrow, the wheel fell off. FORZA NOTTS! FORZA JUVE!
    Posts
    666

    Default

    this has got to be the funniest thread ive read all year

  35. #35
    Part-Timer
    Join Date
    31st March 2010
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    1,156

    Default

    I don't think that 6 million maintenance expenditure is for them facilities by the sound of it. Have you had any other facilities built or your pitch re-laid? Was that in one month or for the season? I am paying £207,000 a month in the championship for ground maintenance so if that is £6m for the whole season it would probably be about right for a top club.

    When upgrading facilities you need to have the money when you ask or the board will refuse. You then still need to have the money when building starts. Building starts at the beginning of June so you will need the money then.

  36. #36
    Amateur
    Join Date
    12th April 2008
    Posts
    620

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by marty78 View Post
    I don't think that 6 million maintenance expenditure is for them facilities by the sound of it. Have you had any other facilities built or your pitch re-laid? Was that in one month or for the season? I am paying £207,000 a month in the championship for ground maintenance so if that is £6m for the whole season it would probably be about right for a top club.

    When upgrading facilities you need to have the money when you ask or the board will refuse. You then still need to have the money when building starts. Building starts at the beginning of June so you will need the money then.
    I had the money twice when the facilities started, only to be cancelled because balance was in the red a year after. I didn't suggest the 6m was the facilities, someone else did. Unless I'm tragically mistaking.

    We'll see.

    I don't understand though why such basic info should be appear in such a strange way.
    Last edited by TSH; 29-04-2012 at 22:46.

  37. #37
    Part-Timer
    Join Date
    31st March 2010
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    1,156

    Default

    If look at the boardroom page where upgrade progress is listed it should say planning or something like that. You have not paid yet. Then if you have less than the cost of the upgrade at the beginning of June it will be cancelled. If you have the money it will now say "under construction" and you will recfeive a message. If you are in the red at the beginning of June you will not complete the upgrade.

    Here you will see that I have a youth facility upgrade for £2m pound. I have not paid for it yet and if I don't have £2m come June they will be cancelled. I will make sure not to agree any end of season transfers that will take me below £2m.


  38. #38
    Part-Timer
    Join Date
    23rd February 2010
    Posts
    1,927

    Default

    I think the problem is that the facilities are only going to be ready next year?

    That depends on the time of the season you "order" them, you can generally order them by the end of the league and they will still be "finished" on the same calendar year, if you order them by the time the new season is starting, i think you pay for them immediately but they will only be ready on the next year.

  39. #39
    Part-Timer
    Join Date
    31st March 2010
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    1,156

    Default

    I'm pretty sure you pay when construction starts not planning. Construction never starts until the end of the season and until planning is finished the final cost isn't known as with stadiums. If you notice in my screenshot it says "is expected to cost" and I haven't paid a penny yet. As you say though if you order them just before that they will start almost immediately and be ready in a couple of months. I may be wrong but I think thats how it works.

  40. #40
    Part-Timer
    Join Date
    23rd February 2010
    Posts
    1,927

    Default

    I think you are right marty i'm not sure anymore.

    If the OP could find the news item regarding the facilities work or if there was any upgrade to the stadium it should clarify everything.

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts