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Thread: The Add/Remove leagues problem...

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    Default The Add/Remove leagues problem...

    Following on from the discussion in this thread...
    http://community.sigames.com/showthr...o-broken/page2

    Its already been submitted as a bug and SI are aware of it but since there's no gurantee SI will fix it this year (seems unlikely now that development of FM13 is underway) this post is mainly to discuss ways on how to keep your current long term saves playable, and also how to set up a new game that will remain stable in the long run while still incorporating a decent variety of playable leagues.

    After 10 seasons my save became unplayable and thats when I became aware of the broken add/remove leagues feature. Its a feature I used several times during that 10 season game, and even though I only added a small number of leagues (3), my game database went from less 20,000 players in 2011 to over 225,000 by season 2020. The sad thing is, in season 2020 I actually had LESS leagues active than I did in season 2011, yet my db had increased 10 fold and became unplayable. I uploaded that game to the ftp for SI to look at last week, but never heard anything back.

    Since then I've ran several tests, all of which show pretty much the exact same pattern develop. Here's the latest test I did trying to work out what size db to start with, and what to avoid doing when playing a new save...

    At game start I had :-

    Playable:
    England down to level 7
    Italy top division
    Spain top division
    Holland top division
    Germany top division

    Viewable:
    Every other European Nations top divisions plus Argentina's top division and Brazil's top division

    Database size: Small (no extra players loaded).


    Season 2011 - 35,159 Players, 5,443 Staff

    Season 2012 - 38,544 Players, 10,862 Staff

    Season 2013 - 44,834 Players, 14,958 Staff

    Season 2014 - 49,904 Players, 16,650 Staff

    Season 2015 - 55,498 Players, 17,187 Staff


    This data shows 20,000 new players entered the game in the first 5 seasons despite me not using the add/remove leagues feature at all during this period, and the total number of people (staff+players) increased by 32,000. :confused:


    The following season I used the add/remove leagues feature for the first time in this save...


    Season 2016 removed from England the BSN/S & Regional Premier divisions, and Italy & Germany (7 leagues in total).

    Season 2016 - 62,126 Players, 21,009 Staff

    Thats a 7,000 player increase and a 4,000 staff increase despite the removal of 7 leagues :confused::confused:

    From this it looks like removing leagues did absolutely nothing to alleviate this problem as the extra players remained in my database and will do until they retire. Not only that but my db seems to increase year after year with the amount of newgens entering my game far outnumbering the amount of older players leaving it. Its easy to see where this is heading... a massive database becoming increasingly unstable and eventually unplayable once my recommended db size is exceeded.


    From the games I've played, and from reading other peoples problems, the best setup for a long term game is to preload all the leagues you want to manage in at the start and use a small database since it'll grow to a massive size on its own eventually anyway wether you add extra leagues or not - see season 5 summary. And if you're looking to play a long term game, don't add extra leagues once your game starts!

    If your game becomes unplayable there are ways to fix it using third party sofware, mentioned in the linked thread.



    A suggestion for SI: When adding new leagues there should be a limiter that prevents us from exceeding the recommended threashold. At the moment there is no player count or even a warning message on the add/remove leagues screen informing us that we're exceeding our PC's recommended player count. And a 1:1 ratio of newgen creation to older player retirement should be implemented to stop this spiraling increase in player count from occuring.

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    A very good thread and analysis. This issue really makes the game unplayable after 10-15 seasons as you say, and before starting a new game I am very much intrested in which settings I should choose in the number of leagues and DB size.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erimus1876 View Post
    this post is mainly to discuss ways on how to keep your current long term saves playable, and also how to set up a new game that will remain stable in the long run while still incorporating a decent variety of playable leagues.
    This is something that I think we could work out by discussing this issue. Maybe Si could give us some ideas on how we should set or pre game settings to avoid our game to become unplayable. I hope for some good ideas from SI to keep our games playable in the long term

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    The strange thing from the previous thread is that we havent yet found a common set up or common changes in the games worst effected. Some games seem to be producing huge numbers of players and eventually crashing games, and others are not. Maybe it would be helpful if we made a list of our set ups and see if we can see anything in there that is similar.
    I'm beginning to think your game is just cursed Erimus

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    My other save has just finished the first season and looks to be ok so far. I loaded English to the championship and Brazil all leagues with a small database and no added players. Started with 13,000 and have 12,987 at the end of August 2012.

    Has anyone had big increases without view only leagues loaded? Clutching at straws again but there must be a catalyst.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marty78 View Post
    My other save has just finished the first season and looks to be ok so far. I loaded English to the championship and Brazil all leagues with a small database and no added players. Started with 13,000 and have 12,987 at the end of August 2012.

    Has anyone had big increases without view only leagues loaded? Clutching at straws again but there must be a catalyst.
    I had no view only leagues loaded and mine increased from 47,000 at the start to over 150,000 by 2021, during that time I added and removed 6-8 leagues.

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    I had tons of view only leagues (but also all top division players loaded via custom DB) and had no increases while NOT using the feature.
    I did have massive increases while using the feature (making view only Eredivise as playble)

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    Quote Originally Posted by marty78 View Post
    My other save has just finished the first season and looks to be ok so far. I loaded English to the championship and Brazil all leagues with a small database and no added players. Started with 13,000 and have 12,987 at the end of August 2012.

    Has anyone had big increases without view only leagues loaded? Clutching at straws again but there must be a catalyst.
    I havent used the view only option at all......

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    Okay thanks guys, something else causing this then. I'm intrigued to say the least.

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    What about specific leagues? Again clutching at straws, but maybe its specific leagues thats causing the biggest increase?

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    I don't know what I started with but my 7 season save has 125 000 players. Started with large DB English leagues to BSP and added serie a & b after a coulee of seasons. Still very playable though on a fairly ropey machine.

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    I doubt it. When i tested, the game created a surplus of players pretty much everywhere and often in similar ratios. I can go back and crunch some numbers on the weekend, but i really doubt that will help much.
    As far as i can tell the game basically creates players in numbers as needed for a playable nation if it had all leagues added, the real problem is that the game does it for every nation and not just the nation you just added to the game.

    If i look at the regens in genie scout the game clearly adds crap regens and the reason is that it creates players for lower level clubs in adition to the regular distribution. The pattern is pretty clear with my save game because i did load all top division players from europe, meaning that all those clubs by default get a normal regen intake as it is and did not receive more players after adding the leagues.

    Before activating the feature, i had all first division players loaded (europe) in adition to a large DB and browsing through the game those were populated with real players and regens (no matter if in england or view only slovenia) while non-league teams (which in my game was anything below the top division) in the countries aren´t or are only partially and have mostly greyed out players in low level countries.
    The game creates just as many players as needed for theese settings to hold up. Case in point, 8 seasons in my normal save has basically the same number of players than it had at the start, right around 62K.

    After activating/using the feature the game then creates scores of regens for every team imaginable as if it were a league team in a playable country where it should create players. IMHO the pattern is pretty clear, at least from my testing. Not to say it couldn´t have different reasons or is triggered by other stuff/settings, just saying that for my game/save/test this is 99% propable to be the pattern/issue.
    Last edited by Marinho; 13-04-2012 at 13:14.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    The strange thing from the previous thread is that we havent yet found a common set up or common changes in the games worst effected. Some games seem to be producing huge numbers of players and eventually crashing games, and others are not. Maybe it would be helpful if we made a list of our set ups and see if we can see anything in there that is similar.
    I'm beginning to think your game is just cursed Erimus

    I hope mine isn't cursed

    This is a good idea though, if people list their game set ups we may figure our what leagues to avoid if its a league specific problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinho View Post
    I doubt it. When i tested, the game created a surplus of players pretty much everywhere and often in similar ratios. I can go back and crunch some numbers on the weekend, but i really doubt that will help much.
    As far as i can tell the game basically creates players in numbers as needed for a playable nation if it had all leagues added, the real problem is that the game does it for every nation and not just the nation you just added to the game.
    This is what I'm noticing too. Players being generated for non-loaded leagues, and lots of them.

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    I've now holidayed to 2021.

    In 2017 I removed Holland, Spain, and the Blue Square Premier.

    This is what's left as playable in my game:
    England Premiership, Championship, League 1, and League 2.

    So in total 9 leagues have been removed since 2011.

    EDIT: Player count is now 30,000 with 6,000 staff. So thankfully there's been a good decrease in players and staff.

    So it looks like the removing leagues feature is working ok afterall

    The next phase of this test is to test the adding leagues feature, as this is where I think the main problem lies. Should have some results to post on this in a few hours.
    Last edited by Erimus1876; 13-04-2012 at 19:29. Reason: Posted wrong Player count info.

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    Well I've finished this latest test, and its similar to the others I did. Here are the results...


    Initial game set up:-
    Playable: England down to level 7, Italy, Spain, Holland, Germany (1st divs)

    2011 - 35,159 Players, 5,443 Staff
    2012 - 38,544 Players, 10,862 Staff
    2013 - 44,834 Players, 14,958 Staff
    2014 - 49,904 Players, 16,650 Staff
    2015 - 55,498 Players, 17,187 Staff
    2016 - Removed England levels 6 & 7, Italy, Spain, Holland, Germany (1st divs)
    2016 - 62,126 Players, 21,009 Staff
    2017 - 30,355 Players, 6,253 Staff - looks like the people count decrease takes several seasons to level off (which is good )
    2018 - 16,302 Players, 7,306 Staff
    2019 - 23,948 Players, 13,793 Staff
    2020 - 28,417 Players, 14,648 Staff
    *2021 - Added England levels 6 & 7, France, Portugal, Belgium, Russia (1st divs)
    2021 - 48,300 Players, 12,809 Staff
    2022 - 94,054 Players, 19,295 Staff - is something seriously going wrong here?
    2023 - 112,440 Players, 22,631 Staff

    *In season 2021 I initially re-added the original leagues I'd previously removed, that is; Italy, Spain, Holland, Germany, and the people count was 53,328 Players, 10,290 Staff.

    Looking at the stats from 2021 to 2023 (where I first used the ADD leagues feature) - if the rise in player count continues at that rate my game would soon become unplayable as my recommended player threashold continues to be far exceeded. Application errors and Runtime errors are pretty much inevitable once that happens, exactly as has happend to my previous saves.

    From this it looks like adding leagues to an existing game generates an excessive number of players year by year than if you had included those leagues in your initial game set up. I'm not sure if re-adding any leagues you'd previously removed creates an excessive number of players or not - that needs to be tested further to find out for sure.

    But on the whole its basically what AcidBurn mentioned in the previous thread; in its current state the add/remove feature is only good for removing leagues.

    • For long career saves I recommend starting with a small database, and at your game setup only load the leagues you want to manage in, but don't ever use the add leagues feature if you plan on playing a 10 season+ game.


    Quote Originally Posted by Marinho View Post
    After activating/using the feature the game then creates scores of regens for every team imaginable as if it were a league team in a playable country where it should create players. IMHO the pattern is pretty clear, at least from my testing. Not to say it couldn´t have different reasons or is triggered by other stuff/settings, just saying that for my game/save/test this is 99% propable to be the pattern/issue.
    Totally agree.
    Last edited by Erimus1876; 16-04-2012 at 16:27.

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    So the best thing to do is start the game with all the leagues you want loaded and remove them as you go on. It is very poor that a new feature like this is so poorly implemented.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AcidBurn View Post
    So the best thing to do is start the game with all the leagues you want loaded and remove them as you go on. It is very poor that a new feature like this is so poorly implemented.
    Unfortunately yes.

    Adding leagues after you've already started will kill your game. And the earlier you add them, the quicker it'll kill it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deza View Post
    This is something that I think we could work out by discussing this issue. Maybe Si could give us some ideas on how we should set or pre game settings to avoid our game to become unplayable. I hope for some good ideas from SI to keep our games playable in the long term
    SI have been very quiet on this issue. All we've had from them is that they're aware of it. I doubt there will be a hotfix, or another patch beyond 12.2.2 (hope I'm wrong). So basically we're on our own with this, hence this thread.

    Like I mentioned above, only use the add/remove feature to remove leagues you initallly started with.

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    Yeah this really is weak showing by SI, especially considering this was the main selling point and the most advertised feature in FM 2012. Luckily I am a cynic and knew to expect something like this so I never used the feature (except for removing leagues where I couldn't see much going wrong).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erimus1876 View Post
    Unfortunately yes.

    Adding leagues after you've already started will kill your game. And the earlier you add them, the quicker it'll kill it.
    But then why is my game no where near being killed, 25 seasons in having used the feature? :confused:
    God it must be horrible working in QA for this game!

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    Could you try to add a few leagues after a season or two, watch it grow bloated, then remove enough leagues to make the database size quite small (in theory) and then see if the player count goes down at all?

    Someone said in the earlier thread that removing leagues at that point won't change anything! I hope at least the growth would stagnate or stop, so that it wouldn't be pointless retiring players with FMRTE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erimus1876 View Post
    Well I've finished this latest test, and its similar to the others I did. Here are the results...


    Initial game set up:-
    Playable: England down to level 7, Italy, Spain, Holland, Germany (1st divs)

    2011 - 35,159 Players, 5,443 Staff
    2012 - 38,544 Players, 10,862 Staff
    2013 - 44,834 Players, 14,958 Staff
    2014 - 49,904 Players, 16,650 Staff
    2015 - 55,498 Players, 17,187 Staff
    2016 - Removed England levels 6 & 7, Italy, Spain, Holland, Germany (1st divs)
    2016 - 62,126 Players, 21,009 Staff
    2017 - 30,355 Players, 6,253 Staff - looks like the people count decrease takes several seasons to level off (which is good )
    2018 - 16,302 Players, 7,306 Staff
    2019 - 23,948 Players, 13,793 Staff
    2020 - 28,417 Players, 14,648 Staff
    *2021 - Added England levels 6 & 7, France, Portugal, Belgium, Russia (1st divs)
    2021 - 48,300 Players, 12,809 Staff
    2022 - 94,054 Players, 19,295 Staff - is something seriously going wrong here?
    2023 - 112,440 Players, 22,631 Staff

    *In season 2021 I initially re-added the original leagues I'd previously removed, that is; Italy, Spain, Holland, Germany, and the people count was 53,328 Players, 10,290 Staff.

    Looking at the stats from 2021 to 2023 (where I first used the ADD leagues feature) - if the rise in player count continues at that rate my game would become unplayable within another 5 seasons as my recommended player threashold of 175,000 is exceeded. Once that happens it'd begin to crash on a regular basis, exactly as it did in my previous saves.

    From this it looks like adding leagues to an existing game generates an excessive number of players year by year than if you had included those leagues in your initial game set up. I'm not sure if re-adding any leagues you'd previously removed creates an excessive number of players or not - that needs to be tested further to find out for sure.

    But on the whole its basically what AcidBurn mentioned in the previous thread; in its current state the add/remove feature is only good for removing leagues.

    • For long career saves I recommend starting with a small database, and at your game setup only load the leagues you want to manage in, but don't ever use the add leagues feature if you plan on playing a 10 season+ game.




    Totally agree.
    If you really want to know whats going on, only add 1 league at a time then you will be able to see the increase per league.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    But then why is my game no where near being killed, 25 seasons in having used the feature? :confused:
    God it must be horrible working in QA for this game!
    I'm not sure mate. I think maybe because you started your game before any patching was made to FM? I suppose its possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BiggusD View Post
    Could you try to add a few leagues after a season or two, watch it grow bloated, then remove enough leagues to make the database size quite small (in theory) and then see if the player count goes down at all?

    Someone said in the earlier thread that removing leagues at that point won't change anything! I hope at least the growth would stagnate or stop, so that it wouldn't be pointless retiring players with FMRTE.

    Well the database count does go down if you remove leagues (see 2016 to 2020), so thats a good thing. I feared those players wouldn't leave the game, but they did apparantly. From what I can tell, the removing leagues part works fine and doesn't cause problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hursty2 View Post
    If you really want to know whats going on, only add 1 league at a time then you will be able to see the increase per league.
    SI can do that. All I wanted to do was find out what the best setup would be at game creation, and what to avoid doing once a game started.

    All I've seem to have done in FM12 since I got it is find problems that ruin my gameplay. First the easiness bug stopped me enjoying the game, then the editor bugs frustrated the hell out of me for months, then when I finally get a db updated and tailored to how I wanted to this add/remove leagues bug pops up and kills the only save I enjoyed playing. I think I'll go back to FM11 to be honest

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    Good to know. This needs fixing fast!

    Also (and once again) thanks Erimus. You're awesome.

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    The feature completely ruined one of my games. It really needs fixing. It add much more players than necessary when you bring in a new squad. I would like an option at the beginning of the game where you can choose a maximum database number of players. So a maximum of 30'000 players and the game reacts to that.

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    I just lost my Leeds United save to this I was in 2013 and I checked the number of players and I had gained nearly 100,000 players.

    If I start a new game and do not add/remove any leagues... will I still for sure have this problem? Please let me know. Thanks! I really appreciate any answers
    Last edited by mduffy96; 14-04-2012 at 15:18.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mduffy96 View Post
    I just lost my Leeds United save to this I was in 2013 and I checked the number of players and I had gained nearly 100,000 players.

    If I start a new game and do not add/remove any leagues... will I still for sure have this problem? Please let me know. Thanks! I really appreciate any answers
    I wouldn't add any leagues once you've started. All I can suggest is to set up your game with just a few playable leagues, save it right at the beginning, and then do a holiday test for 5-10 seasons, then check it. If its running ok, then reload your saved game and start playing. Using holiday mode as a test run could save you a lot of wasted time.

    If I start a new game, I think this is what I'll do.

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    Any more progress on this issue guys?

    I am running a test sim right now.

    I might try and wait it out and hopefully SI will release a patch to fix it
    Last edited by mduffy96; 15-04-2012 at 06:02.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mduffy96 View Post
    Any more progress on this issue guys?

    I am running a test sim right now.

    I might try and wait it out and hopefully SI will release a patch to fix it

    I haven't done any more testing, I don't think there's anything else I need to know other than avoid adding leagues once your game is underway. Also I wouldn't hold your breath on a SI hotfix, I think they're finished patching FM12 (I don't think there's ever been a patch after March/April, could be wrong though, and hopefully I am ).

    Just one more observation I've made though that might be of use/interest...

    On the other thread I posted this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Erimus1876 View Post
    Here's an example of what I mean.

    I picked a club at random.

    This is a club from San Marino (a nation not in my starting db, or added later).

    They should be made up of virtual "grey" players that have very little impact on processing times.

    But as you can see, they are proper players whose stats, history, and attributes, are "real" and constantly being updated week after week...




    And this is this clubs sole contribution to my gameworld this season....




    They played 2 games.

    Yet for the rest of this season all their players stats etc will be constantly updated with make-believe statistics.

    That team (along with 1000's of others not in loaded leagues in my game) should be full of grey players that don't take up processing time by having their stats constantly updated week after week.

    On a similiarly set up game where I never used the add/remove league feature at all, this is this clubs roster...



    As you can see, its made up of virtual greys that don't have their stats, attributes, and histories constantly updated.

    I'm not saying its proof that the add/remove leagues feature is adding tons of players to clubs that you never even added to your game, but there's definately something along those line happening, as other have also pointed out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erimus1876 View Post
    I haven't done any more testing, I don't think there's anything else I need to know other than avoid adding leagues once your game is underway. Also I wouldn't hold your breath on a SI hotfix, I think they're finished patching FM12 (I don't think there's ever been a patch after March/April, could be wrong though, and hopefully I am ).

    Just one more observation I've made though that might be of use/interest...

    On the other thread I posted this...




    On a similiarly set up game where I never used the add/remove league feature at all, this is this clubs roster...



    As you can see, its made up of virtual greys that don't have their stats, attributes, and histories constantly updated.

    I'm not saying its proof that the add/remove leagues feature is adding tons of players to clubs that you never even added to your game, but there's definately something along those line happening, as other have also pointed out.
    Wow, that's pretty interesting. In the save where the team all has actual players, did you add/remove leagues?

    I ran a short 3 year test sim. When I set up the league the estimated size was 66,000. After 3 seasons there was over 70,000 players + 20,000 staff... so after 3 years it went up by nearly 30,000... I didn't add/remove any leagues...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mduffy96 View Post
    Wow, that's pretty interesting. In the save where the team all has actual players, did you add/remove leagues?
    Yes, I used it 3 times I think, adding Italy, Spain, and Germany, over a 10 season period, yet players from all over the world, not just Europe, seemed to be added to non-active teams.

    I ran a short 3 year test sim. When I set up the league the estimated size was 66,000. After 3 seasons there was over 70,000 players + 20,000 staff... so after 3 years it went up by nearly 30,000... I didn't add/remove any leagues...
    Thats similar to the first 5 years on the test save I ran, earlier in this thread. I'm not sure if thats normal or not. What isn't normal is when you add leagues, that steady increase in people count then becomes a flood... its possible you may soon have well over 100,000 - 200,000+ players and staff before too long, even if you started with a small database and a relatively few leagues.
    Last edited by Erimus1876; 15-04-2012 at 09:37.

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    Well, good that one of THE main features this year is useless. And thanks for mentioning it, started my first longterm save 2 weeks ago wondering why it became
    so slow allready 2014/15. The db size increased from originally 60k to more than 120k players... So, i started again, after really thinking through which leagues i want
    to have in my game. I really looked forward to the add/remove feature this year. What a shame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mduffy96 View Post
    Wow, that's pretty interesting. In the save where the team all has actual players, did you add/remove leagues?

    I ran a short 3 year test sim. When I set up the league the estimated size was 66,000. After 3 seasons there was over 70,000 players + 20,000 staff... so after 3 years it went up by nearly 30,000... I didn't add/remove any leagues...
    actually it went up only 4000 as the DB screen at startup only shows you players and not players+staff, so you went from 66k to 70k and propably you also took the numbers at different time during the season. Holidaying for 10 years with yearly save games, my test basically had the same amount of players at all times.

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    I'm now in 2021 and my game has gone from around 70k to 160k over the years. All I've done is add 1 league and then remove 2 :|

    Tragic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinho View Post
    actually it went up only 4000 as the DB screen at startup only shows you players and not players+staff, so you went from 66k to 70k and propably you also took the numbers at different time during the season. Holidaying for 10 years with yearly save games, my test basically had the same amount of players at all times.
    That's awesome news! I was starting to think that no matter what the game would continue increasing in amount of players. And yeah, i did check the number of players at different times of the season. thanks!

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    now that i've read this thread, i know why my save is becoming unplayable. i also made use of the add/remove option, and the number of players exploded... at the moment i can't watch 3d-games, only 2d is working good

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    Quote Originally Posted by karremansje View Post
    now that i've read this thread, i know why my save is becoming unplayable. i also made use of the add/remove option, and the number of players exploded... at the moment i can't watch 3d-games, only 2d is working good
    There may be a way to salvage your game (beyond trying the FMRTE method), and that is to remove some of the leagues you added, and holiday your game a few seasons into the future. In theory your player count may reduce enough for your game to become playable again if you look at the data on the test save I did (2015 to 2020). There's no guarantee it'll work but if you have a long-term game going that you don't want to abandon, it may be worth a try?
    Last edited by Erimus1876; 16-04-2012 at 10:07.

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    players in game 127954
    online game season 24/25 ....so far still going strong, started with 70,000, now its nearly doubled
    started with full English down to BSS/N
    added Spain/Germany in later seasons
    Germany since closed has been for 2 seasons.

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    Some really good useful stuff in here, as always much appreciated

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    If you want a copy of our saved game Mr B of our online game your more than welcome if helps to fix the above issue.

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    I've passed this thread onto a coder, if they need any further information I'll be in touch, thanks again.

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    Having read this thread I thought I would see how many players were in my game given that I added 9 new nations all at the same time when I got a new PC just before Christmas. I'm up to a ridiculous 128,304 players now and 17,936 staff (as of 11th Jan 2017). I'm currently in the 4th season after I loaded all the new nations (Argentina top 2 divs, Brazil top 3 Divs, France top 2 divs, Germany top 2 Divs, Holland top 2, Portugal top 2, Russia Premier League, Scotland top 4 divs and USA MLS).

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    How do you find out how many players are currently in the game?

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    I use genie scout to tell me.

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    Yeah same as others, currently in 2020, added the Brazilian, South African, Chinese and Korean leagues whilst getting rid of the Mexican and Argentinian and I'm at a ridiculous 288,000 players, which means whilst my game is playable, it slows the rest of my computer down thus making it incredibly irritating to try and use

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    I've just checked mine, no wander my games slow. Currently in August 2013; 123,412 Players and 17,765 staff members. I only have England (As low as BSQ Conf, Scot, Ire, N. Ire and Italy on Serie A. Craaazy!

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    I checked mine, after 5 years the number of players has remained stead, (actually 30 less than at the start) The non players however has risen by over 1000

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Whippy View Post
    I've just checked mine, no wander my games slow. Currently in August 2013; 123,412 Players and 17,765 staff members. I only have England (As low as BSQ Conf, Scot, Ire, N. Ire and Italy on Serie A. Craaazy!
    What leagues did you add? What sized db did you start with?

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    Has anyone encountered a dramatic increase when adding leagues which do not include either Brazil or 'custom' leagues? Let us know, thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Brock View Post
    Has anyone encountered a dramatic increase when adding leagues which do not include either Brazil or 'custom' leagues? Let us know, thanks.
    Hey Neil,

    i added the dutch Eredivise without any alteration to it (which was set to view only on startup). My base DB was large, but customized to retain/add all international players from europe and south america as well as all first division players from Europe + Brazil and Argentina which came out at about 65k players at the start (and without adding the league remained steady well into the future)

    I´d have to look up the leagues i started with, but it were the big european ones as playable, a couple other european as view only and brazil and argentina as view only.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Brock View Post
    Has anyone encountered a dramatic increase when adding leagues which do not include either Brazil or 'custom' leagues? Let us know, thanks.
    I added Scottish First Division (2nd level of the nation, the PL was there already). At the start of the game I added the top divisions of all the major leagues in Europe and S.A, no extra players or custom database. I chose large database. The result was about 65000 players. I added the league in 2017 or 18 or something, and now I have 125000 players in my scouting area (widespread global knowledge). I don't have FMRTE - or well I do but I don't get it to work...

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    I only added Peru and the 3rd German League. No custom leagues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Brock View Post
    Has anyone encountered a dramatic increase when adding leagues which do not include either Brazil or 'custom' leagues? Let us know, thanks.
    I started off with just America and added Argentina, South Africa, China and South Korea (but also Brazil) but no custom leagues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Linie View Post
    I only added Peru and the 3rd German League. No custom leagues.
    Do you happen to have a before and after save? Or even just an after save? If so, could you please upload it to the FTP so we can take a look? FTP details here - http://community.sigames.com/showthr...P-Instructions

    Let me know either way, thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Brock View Post
    Has anyone encountered a dramatic increase when adding leagues which do not include either Brazil or 'custom' leagues? Let us know, thanks.
    I added the Swedish top league and then went on later to remove the Greek and Swedish leagues.

    I started with 60-70k players, I'm now at 169,200 players, so I presume my game is continuing to add more by the year. Last time I posted which must have been a season or two back (?) I state I had 160k.

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    ArsenalFan7 - did you have the Brazilian league in from the start?

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    EDIT: Scratch that, we're looking into the issue and we running some internal tests now. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Brock View Post
    ArsenalFan7 - did you have the Brazilian league in from the start?
    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Brock View Post
    EDIT: Scratch that, we're looking into the issue and we running some internal tests now. Thanks.
    I did though fwiw, playable as well.

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    I've never added any nations outside Europe on my games, or on the tests I ran. I did have Brazil & Argentina as view only, but not loaded as playable.

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    I have to say i half gave up my career save due to how slow it got. I started with England to league 1, and top divisions of holland, spain and italy Over time i'd added greece, France, germany and USA, i removed those last 4 after it taking an age to go through just a day, and even looking at it now (2027) there are 128,922 player in the game. When i started there were around 35,000, players, just so slow now. Its such a shame as its one of the biggest additions to this game since the 3d match engine.

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    Keeping my save in case a fix can be applied. Already tried making 15k players aged 48 and releasing another few thousand youth players in the hope they retire. Not got the save opened at the moment but I started with the big 5 Euro leagues then added India, S Africa and one or two others. Reduced now to just 4 English leagues but the game is so slow that I've taken a break from it and moved to Belarus (Smorgen) with my 17k player database

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    I've gained over 10k players in a season just about, 125k to 135k. 2018 now, Hope this can be fixed.

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    Just done an Extra little test:
    italy Spain England, top 2 tiers for all.

    2019: 20,480 players
    added french leagues 1+2
    2020: 68,500 (roughly) players.

    Wtf?? whats worse is so many are like players with less than 80 pa. Why are they still alive and clogging my game up!!!

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    Any news on this front ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erimus1876 View Post
    SI can do that. All I wanted to do was find out what the best setup would be at game creation, and what to avoid doing once a game started.

    All I've seem to have done in FM12 since I got it is find problems that ruin my gameplay. First the easiness bug stopped me enjoying the game, then the editor bugs frustrated the hell out of me for months, then when I finally get a db updated and tailored to how I wanted to this add/remove leagues bug pops up and kills the only save I enjoyed playing. I think I'll go back to FM11 to be honest
    I have the same feeling; I’m spending more time on making bug reports then actually enjoying the game. I hope that FM 2013 will eliminate the worst bugs, otherwise I will try to stay disciplined and buy the game in March 2013.

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    sry for the delay @SI: do you still need a savegame (no pre-add/remove though)? / And i agree, this is indeed very frustrating, and in my opinion a MUST-FIX for this
    version of the game...only wonder why was it noticed so late? Did it came only with the latest patch?

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    I big thing I just noticed on my save is that countries like Bahrain or Turkmenistan have got actual players as opposed I greyed out ones. Whereas in FM 2011 those countries either didn't have full rosters or the players were greyed out.

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    How can I check the current database in game? I can't use genie scout.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ushark View Post
    How can I check the current database in game? I can't use genie scout.
    I'v got 91337 players and 14629 staff in 2017. Started with all english leagues and custom database of 48000 players. I added german, italian, dutch, spanish top leagues in 2016 but the save became really slow so I removed them instantly. It got better but still twice as many players that I started with. Is there a way to remove some of them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ushark View Post
    I'v got 91337 players and 14629 staff in 2017. Started with all english leagues and custom database of 48000 players. I added german, italian, dutch, spanish top leagues in 2016 but the save became really slow so I removed them instantly. It got better but still twice as many players that I started with. Is there a way to remove some of them?
    You could try using FMRTE to make low-PA newgens retire.

    Here's what I did...

    Searched for players with a maximium PA of 80.

    This brought up 113,000 players out of 225,000 that were in my database.

    I used the mass edit feature to make all those players 55 years old, expired all their contracts, reduced their CA & PA's to 10, and their reputations and attributes to 1 (so no one would resign them).

    It can take a few seasons but eventually most of them will disapear out of the game, the problem is just as many new ones seem to enter the game , so its a never ending battle to keep player numbers down to a normal number. And over using FMRTE can corrupt your save, so make backups.

    Realistically its probably just better to start a new game, load all the leagues you want to manage in at game set up, and once underway don't add any more.

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    I'm sorry but does this mean that my game will become unplayble in 10 years? I've started with 12 playable leagues (1st divisions except the big ones (UK, Italy, Spain, Germany) which begin from 2nd division and up). I haven't used the add leagues feature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TSH View Post
    I'm sorry but does this mean that my game will become unplayble in 10 years? I've started with 12 playable leagues (1st divisions except the big ones (UK, Italy, Spain, Germany) which begin from 2nd division and up). I haven't used the add leagues feature.
    Just don´t add any leagues now and you should be fine, don´t think anybody had this happen without using the feature. In my case in 2018 i have basically the same amount of players than in 2012.

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    Any news from SI on a potential fix for this? Hopefully one would be save compatible also.

    Unfortunately the suggestion for retiring players on FMRTE actually adds more players for me, although maybe the database has to be at the player limit for it to take effect.

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    Good to see this is getting SI attention

    In the meantime, can you delete players via FMRTE? And is that easily done via selecting a lot of them and then click on delete or would you have to set retirement dates for each player manually? Maybe in that case I may download this for the first time ever...

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    Unfortunately no, you can't delete players with FMRTE. Afaik retiring them early is the only way to get them to leave your game, and even that can take anywhere between a few game months to a few game seasons (seems random). You could try setting retirment dates individually but it'd take forever. You can make a mass retirment preset, but I could never get mine to work. Increasing their ages (using mass edit) and expiring their contracts is probably the only workable way that I know of (see post #72).
    Last edited by Erimus1876; 26-04-2012 at 13:48.

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    For the SI guys looking at this problem (and anyone else who may find it interesting)...


    Before starting a new game I decided to run some more tests to make sure the game setup I would be using would remain stable in the long term, since I plan on playing a long term career game.

    First of all, I think its pretty obvious that adding leagues once your game is underway will more than likely ruin your game, sooner rather than later.

    So these 4 tests I've just done were conducted without using the add/remove feature at all.

    With that in mind, I set up my tests with a medium DB and only the nations set to playable that I plan on one day managing in.

    In test #1 (mentioned in the first post) I had the following selected from the start:

    England
    Italy
    Spain
    Holland
    Germany

    Results:

    Season 2011 - 35,159 Players, 5,443 Staff
    Season 2012 - 38,544 Players, 10,862 Staff
    Season 2013 - 44,834 Players, 14,958 Staff
    Season 2014 - 49,904 Players, 16,650 Staff
    Season 2015 - 55,498 Players, 17,187 Staff

    Remember, this is without using the add/remove league feature!

    This shows an aveage player increase per season of 5,000 to 6,000. If that continues my game will eventually become unstable as the recommended amount of players in my game will be exceeded. Therefore a long term game is unviable with this setup (wether I use the add/remove feature or not). Thats worrying.


    In test #2 I had again the following nations selected as playable from the start:

    England
    Italy
    Spain
    Holland
    Germany

    Results:

    Season 2011 - 36,796 Players, 10,084 Staff
    Season 2012 - 40,930 Players, 10,659 Staff
    Season 2013 - 46,817 Players, 11,898 Staff
    Season 2014 - 53,768 Players, 16,034 Staff
    Season 2015 - 58,507 Players, 17,576 Staff

    Again, this is without using the add/remove league feature!

    And again an aveage player increase per season of 5,000 to 6,000.


    In test #3 I had once again the following nations selected from the start:

    England
    Italy
    Spain
    Holland
    Germany

    Season 2011 - 36,792 Players, 10,084 Staff
    Season 2012 - 40,918 Players, 10,616 Staff
    Season 2013 - 47,743 Players, 11,824 Staff
    Season 2014 - 52,118 Players, 15,225 Staff
    Season 2015 - 59,389 Players, 17,899 Staff

    Again, this is without using the add/remove league feature!

    Another yearly player increase as before.


    Dissapointed that the game set up I normally use in long-term career games looks unstable in FM12, even without adding leagues, I tried one more test...

    In the 4th test I only selected the following as playable at game setup:

    England
    Spain
    Italy

    In Season 2011 I had approximately 18,000 players.

    I'm now into my 8th season with this save, and I still have approximately 18,000 players!

    Finally! I have a game set up that looks stable. As was mentioned earlier in this thread maybe the problem isn't just with adding leagues, maybe there's a nation-specific problem too? These were just short tests, but at first glance it *looks* like Holland or Germany may be problem leagues, since they were the only two I didn't have loaded during my stable game (4th test). Thought you may find this interesting (or irrelevant to your own testing). Either way I can now start playing a long term game and be confident it won't eventually snuff it.

    I've uploaded my stable 8-season game to the FTP as 'TEST 4.fm'

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    no wonder my career game in which i used add-remove several times and have Holland and Germany active is starting to slow down after 6+ seasons

    decided after reading this to check with fmscout

    HELP

    over 200.000 players and 16.000 staff

    bad thing is i always start several saves and eventually end up with the one i enjoy most and ....... its this one

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erimus1876 View Post
    [B][COLOR="#008000"]
    Finally! I have a game set up that looks stable. As was mentioned earlier in this thread maybe the problem isn't just with adding leagues, maybe there's a nation-specific problem too? These were just short tests, but at first glance it *looks* like Holland or Germany may be problem leagues, since they were the only two I didn't have loaded during my stable game (4th test). Thought you may find this interesting (or irrelevant to your own testing). Either way I can now start playing a long term game and be confident it won't eventually snuff it.

    I've uploaded my stable 8-season game to the FTP as 'TEST 4.fm'
    i did load Holland and Germany and am in 2018 with the same number of players as in 2012, so that´s another theory that´s not it.

    very surprised by your findings, have had (tests and real games) now half a dozen games with varying league selection where (without using the feature) the number of players remained stable. I started with a large DB (and started with about 60k each time) allways. I really doubt we´ll get to the bottom of this ourselves, i do aplaud your effort though !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erimus1876 View Post
    For the SI guys looking at this problem (and anyone else who may find it interesting)...


    Before starting a new game I decided to run some more tests to make sure the game setup I would be using would remain stable in the long term, since I plan on playing a long term career game.

    First of all, I think its pretty obvious that adding leagues once your game is underway will more than likely ruin your game, sooner rather than later.

    So these 4 tests I've just done were conducted without using the add/remove feature at all.

    With that in mind, I set up my tests with a medium DB and only the nations set to playable that I plan on one day managing in.

    In test #1 (mentioned in the first post) I had the following selected from the start:

    England
    Italy
    Spain
    Holland
    Germany

    Results:

    Season 2011 - 35,159 Players, 5,443 Staff
    Season 2012 - 38,544 Players, 10,862 Staff
    Season 2013 - 44,834 Players, 14,958 Staff
    Season 2014 - 49,904 Players, 16,650 Staff
    Season 2015 - 55,498 Players, 17,187 Staff

    Remember, this is without using the add/remove league feature!

    This shows an aveage player increase per season of 5,000 to 6,000. If that continues my game will eventually become unstable as the recommended amount of players in my game will be exceeded. Therefore a long term game is unviable with this setup (wether I use the add/remove feature or not). Thats worrying.


    In test #2 I had again the following nations selected as playable from the start:

    England
    Italy
    Spain
    Holland
    Germany

    Results:

    Season 2011 - 36,796 Players, 10,084 Staff
    Season 2012 - 40,930 Players, 10,659 Staff
    Season 2013 - 46,817 Players, 11,898 Staff
    Season 2014 - 53,768 Players, 16,034 Staff
    Season 2015 - 58,507 Players, 17,576 Staff

    Again, this is without using the add/remove league feature!

    And again an aveage player increase per season of 5,000 to 6,000.


    In test #3 I had once again the following nations selected from the start:

    England
    Italy
    Spain
    Holland
    Germany

    Season 2011 - 36,792 Players, 10,084 Staff
    Season 2012 - 40,918 Players, 10,616 Staff
    Season 2013 - 47,743 Players, 11,824 Staff
    Season 2014 - 52,118 Players, 15,225 Staff
    Season 2015 - 59,389 Players, 17,899 Staff

    Again, this is without using the add/remove league feature!

    Another yearly player increase as before.


    Dissapointed that the game set up I normally use in long-term career games looks unstable in FM12, even without adding leagues, I tried one more test...

    In the 4th test I only selected the following as playable at game setup:

    England
    Spain
    Italy

    In Season 2011 I had approximately 18,000 players.

    I'm now into my 8th season with this save, and I still have approximately 18,000 players!

    Finally! I have a game set up that looks stable. As was mentioned earlier in this thread maybe the problem isn't just with adding leagues, maybe there's a nation-specific problem too? These were just short tests, but at first glance it *looks* like Holland or Germany may be problem leagues, since they were the only two I didn't have loaded during my stable game (4th test). Thought you may find this interesting (or irrelevant to your own testing). Either way I can now start playing a long term game and be confident it won't eventually snuff it.

    I've uploaded my stable 8-season game to the FTP as 'TEST 4.fm'
    This seems to be the worst FM ever, this is the first time in my FM career, that gamebreaking bug's are appearing in such various ways and forms. When are we getting the finished product?

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinho View Post
    i did load Holland and Germany and am in 2018 with the same number of players as in 2012, so that´s another theory that´s not it.

    very surprised by your findings, have had (tests and real games) now half a dozen games with varying league selection where (without using the feature) the number of players remained stable. I started with a large DB (and started with about 60k each time) allways. I really doubt we´ll get to the bottom of this ourselves, i do aplaud your effort though !
    Yes, I probably need to test leagues individually to see if its a league specific problem as well as just using the add league feature. Whats worrying me more though is the fact that my tests show the player count increases anyway, wether I use the add feature or not.

    With 6 leagues playable at game set up, its showing an average of 5000 to 6000 new players entering the game every season, plus staff too! If that rate of increase continues, within 10-15 seasons my game would have in excess of 100,000 players. At 150,000 my game begins crashing everytime I try to play a match, meaning a long-term game in FM12 is impossible for me.

    The way I see it is the number of new players entering the game must eventually level off and fall in line with the number or retirements, otherwise games will become bloated with players and eventually become unplayable. I should test 20+ seasons to see if that happens, but to be honest I'm a bit burned out with it all now.

    Lesson learned...

    If I buy FM13, it won't be until March when its..

    a. cheaper.
    b. any game killing issues are known, and fixed!

  83. #83
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    double post
    Last edited by marty78; 27-04-2012 at 22:10.

  84. #84
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    My current save has a similar setup to Erimus' above. I have 7 leagues in 6 nations that are playable with a small database of 25,000 players. Three season in and holding steady so far.

    England - premier league and championship
    Holland - eredivisie
    Italy - seria a
    Spain - liga bbva
    Germany - first division
    France - ligue 1

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erimus1876 View Post
    For the SI guys looking at this problem (and anyone else who may find it interesting)...


    Before starting a new game I decided to run some more tests to make sure the game setup I would be using would remain stable in the long term, since I plan on playing a long term career game.

    First of all, I think its pretty obvious that adding leagues once your game is underway will more than likely ruin your game, sooner rather than later.

    So these 4 tests I've just done were conducted without using the add/remove feature at all.

    With that in mind, I set up my tests with a medium DB and only the nations set to playable that I plan on one day managing in.

    In test #1 (mentioned in the first post) I had the following selected from the start:

    England
    Italy
    Spain
    Holland
    Germany

    Results:

    Season 2011 - 35,159 Players, 5,443 Staff
    Season 2012 - 38,544 Players, 10,862 Staff
    Season 2013 - 44,834 Players, 14,958 Staff
    Season 2014 - 49,904 Players, 16,650 Staff
    Season 2015 - 55,498 Players, 17,187 Staff

    Remember, this is without using the add/remove league feature!

    This shows an aveage player increase per season of 5,000 to 6,000. If that continues my game will eventually become unstable as the recommended amount of players in my game will be exceeded. Therefore a long term game is unviable with this setup (wether I use the add/remove feature or not). Thats worrying.


    In test #2 I had again the following nations selected as playable from the start:

    England
    Italy
    Spain
    Holland
    Germany

    Results:

    Season 2011 - 36,796 Players, 10,084 Staff
    Season 2012 - 40,930 Players, 10,659 Staff
    Season 2013 - 46,817 Players, 11,898 Staff
    Season 2014 - 53,768 Players, 16,034 Staff
    Season 2015 - 58,507 Players, 17,576 Staff

    Again, this is without using the add/remove league feature!

    And again an aveage player increase per season of 5,000 to 6,000.


    In test #3 I had once again the following nations selected from the start:

    England
    Italy
    Spain
    Holland
    Germany

    Season 2011 - 36,792 Players, 10,084 Staff
    Season 2012 - 40,918 Players, 10,616 Staff
    Season 2013 - 47,743 Players, 11,824 Staff
    Season 2014 - 52,118 Players, 15,225 Staff
    Season 2015 - 59,389 Players, 17,899 Staff

    Again, this is without using the add/remove league feature!

    Another yearly player increase as before.


    Dissapointed that the game set up I normally use in long-term career games looks unstable in FM12, even without adding leagues, I tried one more test...

    In the 4th test I only selected the following as playable at game setup:

    England
    Spain
    Italy

    In Season 2011 I had approximately 18,000 players.

    I'm now into my 8th season with this save, and I still have approximately 18,000 players!

    Finally! I have a game set up that looks stable. As was mentioned earlier in this thread maybe the problem isn't just with adding leagues, maybe there's a nation-specific problem too? These were just short tests, but at first glance it *looks* like Holland or Germany may be problem leagues, since they were the only two I didn't have loaded during my stable game (4th test). Thought you may find this interesting (or irrelevant to your own testing). Either way I can now start playing a long term game and be confident it won't eventually snuff it.

    I've uploaded my stable 8-season game to the FTP as 'TEST 4.fm'
    You're saying which nations you have loaded, but not saying which league divisions. It could be a specific division causing the problem.

  86. #86
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    Im assuming that the retain players feature is being omitted from these tests?? Cause if not that could be a potential problem...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Brock View Post
    EDIT: Scratch that, we're looking into the issue and we running some internal tests now. Thanks.
    Just wondered how your internal tests are going?

    My game's become so slow that I've put it on the shelf for now. Having downloaded Genie Scout it turns out that I have over 250k players not what I initially thought in my earlier post :-|

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    You can't see how many players in your game if you load 'all players from...' can you?

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    bump

    some sort of Update would be nice here. If nothing can be done it´d still be nice to know that this is the case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinho View Post
    bump

    some sort of Update would be nice here. If nothing can be done it´d still be nice to know that this is the case.
    I agree. Some people are waiting for a fix before restarting their saves, but if this isn't going to be fixed until FM13 I think people deserve to know.

  91. #91
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    I would quite like to know too. Any sort of update would be appreciated.

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    Agreed. An update would be appreciated. Or at least how i should handle this issue properly, don't want another save ruined.

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    I am following this with great interest. I have a setup with only the Dutch Eredivisie loaded from the start, but with lots of extra files loaded too. I want to be able to play in Africa or Asia, without having to start all over again, or without having to have them allready in from the start. Does SI has some clues about what is going wrong here?

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    Just a thought, and it might be a long shot, but given that the Remove league feature appears to work as intended, has anybody tried adding ALL the available leagues and then the following season removing all of the leagues that are not required.

    I'm aware that this will make the game run really slow for 1 season whilst all available leagues are running, but potentially the subsequent removal of these leagues might resolve the issue of players being added to clubs in those leagues.

    I'm going to run a test on this myself, but given I don't have FMRTE to count the player numbers I thought I might just put this out there to the community to see whether we can get a few people testing?

  95. #95
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    What needs to be done is this: start a save with one division, say the English Premier League, holiday for 10 seasons, check the effects. If no effect, then restart the process but add the Championship, 10 seasons, check, and repeat. Add a new division each time. When all divisions from one country are entered, start adding them one by one from another country as well as keeping the ones you've already added.

    Do this until you start seeing issues. Once you do, make a note of the last division you added, and start removing them one by one from the division you started the save with and work down (just in case it's one division effected by another, you never know).

    Time consuming I know, but it's the only way it can be done, really. That's how I'd do it if I had FMRTE (I've heard it costs money now, so I can't try this).

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    If people want to spend time narrowing down the problem I'd be interested in the results, but really thats SI's job. And to be honest I don't think SI have time to fix this now that FM13 is in full development, so there's not much we can do anyway.

    Personally, this is what I recommend...

    • For those with bloated DB's, sorry but its time to start a new game.
    • Make sure all the leagues you want to manage in are loaded at game set up.
    • And don't use the add/remove feature once your game is underway, unless its to remove leagues only.


    I know people bought FM12 on the back of this feature but with this problem unfixed all you can really do now is set up and play the game as you would have in FM11.

    Sad to say, but thats the top and bottom of it unless SI say otherwise.

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    Having played several long term games, one of which was 10 seasons and I'm yet to notice such an issue.

    You mention "Level 7" of the English leagues, to my knowledge the standard game database only goes down to level 6, does this mean that these saves were made using a custom database, if so, maybe this is the issue here.

    Sorry if this has already been mentioned.

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    From my experience it doesn't matter if its a custom database or the default SI one. Its occurs on both. Other people are reporting the same problems too. I'm sure some of those are using normal DBs.

    You said you haven't had any problems with your save? When did you start your save? was it before patch 12.2? As far as I know milnerpoint also hasn't had any problems on his game either, but he started his save back in October before FM12 was patched. I'm wondering if games started post 12.1 and 12.2 are the only ones effected. Just clutching at straws here but it may be something worth looking at.

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    Started my game on release day on original patch. No add-ons or custom databases.

    Started with 75000, but database ballooned up to 150000 after about 20 seasons. In that time I added a handful of league, which I think is the cause of the problem (Holland/Portugal/Australia/USA and a couple of others).

    I've now been able to reduce the database to about 120000, but had to remove lots of leagues to do so; in fact I'm now running less leagues than what my original set-up was. Thankfully, I've got a pretty decent machine, so can just about handle to large database, but it's certainly not ideal!!!

  100. #100
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    Just wondering how do I use FMRTE to clear some players out? I have over 206000+ players and over 10500+ staff with only 4 leagues loaded, and I'm in the year 2016. Please help thank you

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