i seriously dunno why SI decided to make a new match engine in fm11 and tweak it a bit and put it again on fm12. fm10 also had it's problems but was way more realistic then what we have today.
here's the problems i see with fm12:
players missing too many 1 vs 1
defenders are bad when it comes to marking
too many balls hitting the bar/post
lower team reputation vs big team reputation is one sided, always works bad for the big team. smaller team players nervous or afraid of big team ? don't see that
the karate attitude of a player who has less then 10 points in agression and has superb moral
the fact that player stats and reputation seems to have no effect on how easy they can get nervous if you make a bad teamtalk.
AI players always determined to score a goal even if they are loosing 3-0 or more meanwhile our players go ape mode
all those previous problems when put into an offsensive tactic makes the game seen as Biased because that will happen way more often to us. the shot on target/goals ratio is fine though.
now about what i want, i want to not struggle everytime i face a small team, i want not to steam roll big teams that makes them looklike amateurs. on my 1st game as manager with Real Madrid against Barcelona i steam rolled them 4-0, i was happy sure but then with same tactic on next game i loose against a small team the only thing that comes to mind is WTF why are they missing so many goals, why cant Ronaldo score a freaking 1 vs 1
Last edited by deathspawn666; 08-04-2012 at 06:55.
Sometimes **** happens and players get sent off.
Out of interest, what changes do you make when playing weak teams? How do you approach these matches in terms of motivation and tactics?
big teams: DCs defending, DL/DR support, MC defensive, MC offsensive, AML/AMR wingers, 2 strikers
small teams: i change MC offensive to either defensive or winning ball, AML/AMR usually go inside forwards however if center is too crowded they stay wingers.
i always play in attacking mentality, if i go lower then that my team will just start giving way too many posession and eventually conceed a goal. oh and the slider for defensive line is always in the middle
even though i understand noone is a perfect manager it doens't make sense for Ronaldo or Messi go ape mode against small teams...
Last edited by deathspawn666; 08-04-2012 at 07:08.
and as for those CA it's usually because some player went ape mode and missed a easy tackle or messi/ronaldo missed a drible against some AMC...
off to bed now, thanks for your responses
Yu have very little cover with an attacking 4-2-4, so missed tackles are to be expected. I'd also be wary of playing more patiently with a 4-2-4. I'd look to be keeping more players behind the ball. Perhaps a 4-3-3/4-51 or a 4-2-3-1 Deep.
By playing an attacking 4-2-4, you will win some games by big scorelines, but you risk losing goals from counter attacks, which plays into the hands of weaker sides.
Playing Devil's advocate here, I do think there's is more of an issue when a lower rep team, particularly one that is in poor form, and only has a small squad, seems to overcome moral and fitness issues when they play a human player.
If moral can hit the human team so drastically that they suddenly can't string two passes together, when they have done so against other teams, yet a lower rep opponent suddenly passes them off the park, that can seem to be a little one sided.
Why does low moral and poor condition not affect the AI teams?
And since the 12.1 morale changes, ultra-attacking tactics have lost their previous advantage. Players no longer get a huge, long-term morale boost from obliterating smaller opposition, so you now need a more balanced standard tactic. This is the reason why many popular plug-and-play tactics no longer work, and it's also why many AI managers that were good in FM11 are very poor in FM12. As you may recall, Arsenal under Wenger typically came to dominate the EPL in FM11 whereas, in FM12.1 and beyond, Wenger's high attacking attribute and very offensive formation typically get him sacked within two seasons. On the other hand, AI managers like Rafa Benitez, who use a generally offensive formation (4231 Deep) but a balanced mentality, tend to find much more success in FM12 than they did in FM11.
Missing good quality chances will always be inflammatory, maybe because there doesn't seem to be a feasible solution. The way I play is to create numerous good quality chances, and I have tried many different tactical connotations. And I even changed my tactics prior to a reserve game or youth game to see how they get on.
But it seems nothing prevents my players from missing decent chances. I just beat Barca 1-0, and hammered them on chances, and without any question, they have to be the luckiest side I have faced. One one occasion the ball trickled across the goal line whist their defender and GK desperately tried to clear without scoring an own goal - how they managed this I don't know.
In my investigation to remedy missing good quality chances, I have tried.
High CF - Low CF - Balanced CF for my Att/Creative players = The only visual difference was the amount of chances I create; the lower the CF, the fewer the chances, but quality chances are still missed.
High Tempo - Low Tempo - Balanced Tempo = A higher tempo seems to move the ball around swifter, a lower tempo seems to create fewer chances, but quality chances are still missed.
High Att Mentalities - Low Att Mentalities - Balanced Att Mentalities = Again the lower the Att Mentalities, the fewer chances I create, but quality chances are still missed.
Rare Time Wasting - High Time Wasting - Balanced Time Wasting = Fewer chances created with high time wasting, but quality chances are still missed.
I really crave a simplified solution to this problem. Having exhausted all possibilities, I find scoring the first goal absolutely vital, then I tend to experiment on improving my shots to goals ratio, with little consistency (I seem to score more half chances). Luckily I seem to have understood a decent defensive structure, but I'm afraid it's making the game very dull, and the lack of reward for some great attacking endeavour is highly frustrating.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Last edited by bullybeef; 08-04-2012 at 16:16.
about the AML and AMR yeah they do behave a lot like strikers.
btw i'm using zone marking, could that be the problem? i'm using opposition instructions also for the most dangerous players, usually fast strikers.
currently playing a champs match and moved 1 MC to DM position and now it's worst, the DM completely ignores AMC players running their direcction and DC has to try cover up his mistakes and obviously leaves strikers alone. 2 goals conceeded because DM wouldn't mark AMC. meanwhile all opposition players were able to tackle Ronaldo and Neymar from behind. DR/DL NEVER tried to tackle the AMC even though they had no yeallow card and were running with the AMC until he gets 3 meters from the GK...
Last edited by deathspawn666; 08-04-2012 at 18:37.
It's definitely not tactics IMO as before the last patch my right sided striker was scoring regularly and whilst the left struggled at times I am sure that's down to right footed players on the left not being very good!!
Same tactics new patch and my top scorer is Carlton Cole with 6 goals by January. I brought in Adebayor at the start of the season and he has scored a pathetic 2. He is getting chances but he usually hits them with the power of a wet flannel and they pee roller wide, this by an apparently decent striker.
Plus just been on a great run and only a few games ago played Arsenal off the park and yet I have just lost 2-0 to botrtom of the table Blackpool with yep you have guessed it them scoring their only two chances of the game. I batter them and yet my usually reliable left back short changes a pass back and it's the best pass Blackpool's striker gets all game.
You will be told that it's overconfidence (rather than wins breeding confidence) and your players got sloppy but that's not football management that's luck, especially when both start of game and half time team talks get a positive green response. So you literally are left with just having to accept that on this occasion you will just not win no matter what you do.
the thing is, a top quality player when through on goal has more chance to score then someone who is at a lower team. this isn't adressed. i'm getting sick of conceding 2 goals to the boltons, west broms and birminghams because they score from 2 passages of play, usualy from kick offs.
the odd time maybe but so far this season, it has happened in a good 11 games.
or the AI tackles from behind inside penalty area that 99% of the time are sucesseful meanwhile our defenders won't tackle or it will be a penalty
Last edited by deathspawn666; 08-04-2012 at 19:44.
All I can suggest to those not happy with FM12 is try FM11, I am still playing it because I think its a very good game, well balanced, fun, rewarding. Its not as easy to improve a game as people think. You can change something to please one group of gamers (hardcores) and upset another (newbies).
And I have 4 strikers currently in my first team, previously 5 but one talented young striker was sent out on loan before the whole injury saga begun as he wanted first team football and anyway, my fourth striker has been injured for a while now, he had a 3-4 month injury which he suffered in February iirc.
And anyway sure Teffera has played a lot but he has a high natural fitness attribute and is not injury prone, he was last injured for a small time of 3 weeks around 3 seasons back and played 37 of 38 games last year only missing one through suspension. He's one of the most injury free players ever for me.
Where this random long term injury pops up from FM only knows! There's too many players being injured in game and you already admit this so fair enough I say.
And fwiw Robin has just gone off injured in a game. I have no strikers. Turned out to be only a concussion but still so many going off injured.
There's an issue there.
Last edited by ArsenalFan7; 08-04-2012 at 21:39.
Most of the comments above pretty much sum a big part of my own grudges against the game.
Injuries are a bit too close together to be looked upon as an unfortunate occurense. And the fact that a stubbed finger is enough a reason to swap a player mid-match and then lose him for a couple weeks doesn't help either.
And then we have morale and dedication. I can understand that professional players are better for that,but how is it possible that every single lowlie team that has been on a run of 15+ loses,with players of abysmal morale and surely not professional players just happens to find their lust for football against the player's team out of nowhere? Every single one of them. And it's almost always someone "scoring their first goal of the season" or even "of their career" as well.
Deathspawn has given a few really accurate things that seem biased against the player,key word being "seem" here. Some of them might be,some of them not.
It doesn't have to be that the game is programmed to act like that,just that it happened to turn out like that in practice.
Like it's been said before,the AI seems to do everything close to spotless. Their marking,their crossing,everything seems perfect,whereas PC players seem to forget about what football is about.
And the "change your tactics" is a bit tiresome. It makes most of us feel like we're being mistaken for players that took a random tactic,put some players there and expected to win. Trust me,I've tried a lot of things,most of them in vain though.
The match preparation system doesn't help either. The game practically punishes us for trying new things,whereas the AI seems to be able to change tactics and perform well with them with ease.
This is a question that I always had since the introduction of this feature in FM11, do the AI teams have any penalties from changing tactics? Does the match preparation system affect them at all? If not,then this is clearly a big part of what's causing all these bizzare situations that seem to be biased towards the user.
Last edited by Apos; 08-04-2012 at 22:35.
I think you've hit the nail on the head there....never thought of that.
I must add though, not all the game is biased, sometimes I score 'jammy' goals, although it does occur in games were I've made my own luck (had lots of other chances that missed, hit the post etc). Sometimes it is like the ME is tormenting you, and I wouldn't put it past a programmer sticking these little annoyances in for their own amusement [only joking of course].
What else would we do if we couldn't have a good old moan; you wanna go and have at look at some RL LFC forums, boy does the team and manager get it when they lose.
Last edited by bullybeef; 08-04-2012 at 22:47.
Though I dislike match prep entirely to be honest.
It may seem like there is bias, but the FACT is that is no bias in the ME, or in how the AI reacts you on the pitch, or your injuries in relation to AI injuries.
As the saying goes, "garbage in, garbage out!"
Have another read of what he said, the 37 game striker is the exception rather than the norm & he's already qualified why he has played all but 1 league (high natural fitness).
You're point about ensuring the fringe players are relatively fit is valid but not being 'match fit' does not excessively increase the risk of injury as it generally relates to mental fitness such as anticipation & timing, I will confidently say that the ME is not sophisticated enough to replicate the sort of injuries that carry an increased risk due to a lack of match practice.
I'd agree that the nature of the actual injury is not sophisticated enough, but not that there are no mechanisms to reduce the likelihood of in-game injuries.
Thankfully like you I do not tend to suffer from frequent large scale injury problems, I'll get the occasional knock or strain/pull & at most I might have 4 or 5 players unavailable at any one time which is more than manageable. Maybe I'll try to do the opposite of what I usually do at some point in the future to see if there really is a correlation.
I might add that I do not think the injury/fitness model is anywhere near accurate enough & if anything there are not enough fitness problems, at this time of year I'd imagine that most squad's have a large number of players nursing minor injuries or niggles yet this is not replicated by FM & as for having most of your squad at 100% fitness unless officially injured that is & always has been a nonsense.
I still don't think the condition element of the ME works well enough, with certain positions being over-penalised whereas others barely get a hit. It seems to be related to the speed at which forwards, wingers and attacking midfielders run, especially with the ball, which causes a major hit to condition. Perhaps users struggling with injuries rely too much on high speed dribbles. That would be consistent between the inability to score (far less likely to score after a player has touched a ball twice prior to shooting) and high injury counts (penalisation for RWB). If the user has lots of RFD/FWRs for front players as well, then the problem will be further accentuated.
Last edited by wwfan; 09-04-2012 at 00:12.
Just for kicks you can also add the occasional injury not tallying up with what happened on the pitch, I've had a player break a rib after trapping a ball & passing it, the nearest other person to him was 10 yards away.
yes i know, yet come off for a bruise
Yeah, one of mine recently suffered a strained neck while simply standing in the centre circle with no-one near him. The match report claimed it was a result of an aerial challenge yet the statistics showed him having 0 headers attempted. Go figure..
Has anyone ever noticed the 1-on-1 scenario, were the player is clean through on their GK, he sidesteps him to create an empty goal shooting angle, but then kicks it back towards the GK. Bizarre isn't the word.
Thanks for the reply, wwfan, it is appreciated. I can imagine it is frustrating for you guys when you try to advise and it seems we are set in our ways so much we don't take it.
As you may recall, I do play a deep, defensive 42121 system (2 def mids (1 Achman, 1DLPM,); 1 CM (APM); 2 AIF; 1 GP). Are you saying to stick with the pre-set default mental settings for my CA tactic, rather than manually set them? And as much as I have tried toggling CA to on, I don't seem to notice if it makes any difference other than I keep the ball better. Would you suggest beginning the game with CA ticked, and maybe un-toggle it once I am winning to maybe keep the ball better?
Why? Because match preparation has been proven plenty of time to be tied with the manager and not the team. Don't believe me? Do this: Take a team and pick a tactic,anything, then holiday 3-4 months and return(have the ass.manager to use that tactic). Retire,add new manager and try getting the players to play the exact same tactic,with zero changes.Bizzare how they will have forgot everything within a single day,right?
In the meantime, manager changes don't affect AI teams as much. Their tactics won't be crap on their first games after a new manager signing as long as the players are good,so it is unlikely that AI is affected at all by match preparation.
Even their motivation is dubious. Like I said on my previous reply,I find it extremelly hard to believe that every team of the league that has abysmal morale,bad players and a streak of 10 loses in a row somehow got to find their lust for football against the very same team every single season. It doesn't matter of what team it is anymore really,if I see a streak of LLLLLL I know what's my next game's outcome will be. Their first W of the season.
Last edited by Apos; 09-04-2012 at 10:01.
Everything the AI can do, you can do better.
If I see a streak of LLLL coming, i know what the outcome its, usually a 4-0 win for me.
Last edited by themadsheep2001; 10-04-2012 at 13:54.
And it seems you fail at reading as well,because I didn't say that the game is stacked against me. I said it "seems", want me to expand on that word so that you understand it better?
If the AI suffers from match prep then how can they change so many tactics throughtout matches without any effect on their performance? Last time I checked there is a limit of 3 tactics on preparation,yet they can change from 4-4-2 to 4-5-1,then 4-2-4,and then whatever and get away with it with no performance penalty? And I'm talking about the same penalty the player has when doing something like that,aka absolutely ******** football from their players.
And unless you can prove otherwise yourself,there is not much truth in your words either. There is no feedback provided that proves that the AI is affected by the same parameters as the player. And ask Riz of SI? You mean ask the same people that said that the greek and turkish leagues were fixed in 12.2 even though absolutely nothing was taken care of? Erm...no thanks,I prefer to trust what I see myself and complaints of other players that have the same experiences as mine.
"Everything the AI can do,you can do better"
Ok then,I'd like to see you take over a squad of bad players,none of them professional,all of them on abysmall morale,on a streak of 10+ loses, and win against a superior team that has suberb morale and much better players on every single stats,technical,physical and mental.
And did I mention that their managers have a motivating of 8-10 most of the time? And yet they manage to motivate their players to do the impossible every time? To put it bluntly: "Slim ******* chances!"
I've tried all the advice that was given to me,from you and everyone else. The outcome is the same, outcomes that seem unbelievable, streaks that can't be stopped for anything (wasn't this "supposedly" fixed in 12.2 as well? Go figure!) and generally stupid football from my players. The only thing that was fixed was my injuries for 2 seasons. But that's just like I said before. You either have no injuries or end up renting a hospital floor just for your squad. Start of the next season and 4 injuries on the first friendly. 2 on the second. One of them being 9 months long.
We play the same game, if you are getting humped by poor morale sides constantly, you're doing something/somethings wrong.
Trying to create a strawman argument that because an issue wasnt dealt everything SI say is wrong doesn't wash. If you put as much work into trying to take in what people say and dropping your misconceptions as you did making jibes at people who have done nothing but try to help you, you might be less frustrated.
Last edited by themadsheep2001; 09-04-2012 at 13:42.
Can someone pls explain how the goal conversion rate works? If the CCC conversion is 1 in 3 (and I understand now that some CCC are exaggerated on the game), could this explain why some CCC are missed, to keep within this rule?
If I recall correctly, I score more half chances than CCC.
I just wanted to question about the AI tactics, each individual AI manager has a specific tactical preference on their profile, yet they are adept at numerous tactics. Could this also be a questionable advantage?
Last edited by bullybeef; 09-04-2012 at 13:44.
If "it's my tactics", like the saying goes around these parts by what I call fan-boys, I'll never know thanks to no feedback.
If I'm right though and those who defend the game just happen to be lucky on the right times, once again we can't tell, thanks to close to no feedback.
The game is about "here's a random outcome,either you like it or not". The information around that is minimal and also hard to approach as well. (analysis panel,etc) And even if someone checks the analysis panel,the information is still not enough to make a good decision on what to fix, chances are the player might end up making things worse as well.
But I would write off half the "CCC" i create as not being CCCs. Its a small issue but one with big ramifications if people are using it as a guide to how well their play is going.
If you create 10 CCC, you would hope (all things being equal) to put away 3-4 of them. But the problem is 4-5 of this may not actually be CCC's ( this is averaging for the sake of the argument, of course they could all be actual CCC's or they could be badly interpreted ones). Now if you put away one or none from 10, you're going to be livid as a manager. Especially if you feel its happening toooften ( and the AI hits a 25 yarder).
I frequent other forums, one a music forum with a fantastic FM thread going, these guys can accept when they are wrong and are open to advice, even if the game is letting them down slightly, they dont rant on and on about every minor detail, and guess what, they love the game. One of FM's biggest problems is the mis-information that comes out from the GD forum.
There's plenty wrong with the ME in its current state. But there's no such area in the game where the AI gets an advantage over a clued up human manager. If you want to stop getting beat by teams on long losing runs and be more efficient yourself then give people details about your tactics, upload pkms and there will be plenty of people willing to help you. If you stop your ranting and insulting people of course.
In this version i have played as Aberdeen, a poor team in a poor league, so i dont listen to any of this nonsense that the people who are not struggling are playing with the worlds best teams and players and i dont experience the problems being described in this thread.
My last match being a case in point. Form of my opponent:
By no means an efficient shooting night for my team really. But the opponent shot 6 times so by that 'every shot goes in' theory must have scored 6 right? Or at least once? Well no. The result:
Couldn't have been more comfortable. And that's the norm, not an exception. Could have gone for more if I felt like it but I like to keep things tight throughout and not take unnecessary risks.
Now either I'm playing a different game to those that lose every game against an opponent on poor form - or it's something they're doing that's causing this to happen.
Exactly! Anyway moral is only a part of the overall picture!! Always has and always will be.
Last night i was playing the end of a season, lost my last 5 league games and lost the league on the last day of the season to Celtic, moral was all on very poor or below, had the champs league final to look forward to as well, so i changed my approach for the game to suit how my team was playing and feeling, tightened things up a bit and changed a few bits and pieces to make the team solid first and foremost and able to score second, encouraged the players a bit, got through the first half 0-0, moral went up a bit because we had played well, so gave them a bit of praise and a bit more attacking freedom and won the game 2-0 despite both strikers playing without confidence for the first 60 minutes, but because my team made 4 very very good chances and kept things tight at the back we won the game, was it luck or because of the changes i made? I know which one ill go with.
If you were better at reading you'd notice that I did not claim that I do everything correct.I have really often admit that I'm doing something wrong and I'm asking for advice. Guess what,that advice doesn't help either. The same crap keeps happening,I don't care if it happens to you or not,it happens to me and that's what I care about. You know,enjoying the game,like for instance...before FM11 appeared.
But since you are so eager to defend your "perfect game" , then so be it. You keep supporting it,I won't. I already feel robbed for 2 years in a row and a game that is being developed according to the standards similar to yours is not a game I will support. Keep the crap defence,the mass of injuries and the players that are ready to collapse mentally as soon as a butterfly dies next to them to yourself,I'm full.
But since you have said your done, then there is no point in anyone offering any more advice to you, i dont make any standards for SI in anyway, i buy, play and enjoy a game, nothing more.The ME and game in general has its problems and weaknesses
Hopefully you find a game that ties more into what you enjoy and you can leave us to enjoy FM.
and as for 4-2-4 (two MCs) being too risky, well i don't see that problem when AI goes with it and their MCs are everywhere in the field...i guess they must all have 20 pace and 20 speed...
and from what i see in FM the logic is: score 2 goals before players go ****** and you get 1 goal inside your net from a super AI play or player stupid mistake
Last edited by deathspawn666; 09-04-2012 at 18:46.
OK, so a formation works against Barca. Conclusion: use it against Barca!
Where you are deciding that its a good formation for small teams that play deep, and counter you, I don't know. If it beats Barca, use it against Barca! Come up with something different for the smaller teams! A more patient approach, another player in midfield... You have to remember that just because players get up for a big game it doesn't mean they will feel the same way about facing Real Zaragoza! Once you realize you can score goals using a counterattacking mentality, standard mentality, AND Control mentality, not just attacking or overload it can make a BIG difference.
and how many tactics do teams play through a season? i see AI constantly changing then through the season depending on the match but when i go watch my league RL i see teams using 1 or 2 tactics. if FM12 is a simulator then start going by the basics and not start with real numbers on an unreal engine.
btw funny thing i found in ME, AI can have 1 total shot and have 0 shots on target and 0 shot not on target. clear example on how number are made up on ME.
everytime i check a big team in RL they play 4-4-2 with 1 MC as defensive and 1 as support/attacking, 4-1-3-2 with 1 MC on defensive duty and 3 AM, 2 strikers and i don't see them having problems against small teams. maybe they have super players, or super coaches, or maybe they are repeating the game until they win, or maybe they're super psychologists that always find the perfect team talk
Last edited by deathspawn666; 09-04-2012 at 19:10.
The problem is no team in the world uses that formation in real life.
So it works in FM in specific circumstances but as wwfan has pointed out its a "gamey" solution - You are basically trying to exploit the ME which is why you are having problems in other matches. If you concentrated your efforts into building solid footballing tactics that we see in real life you would get less random results from the FM ME and be happier as a result.
What team in the WORLD hasn't had trouble with small teams in the last year? Inter lost against Novara, Barcelona have dropped points many times, Man U lost against Blackburn (guess what, the keeper played a shocker). Thats real life from what I have seen. Yeah, the big teams win almost 70% of those games, but I think you are somehow forgetting those other 30%. Like I have said before, I play FM11, haven't tried FM12 because FM11 is great and I love it, and I have seen games NOT improve year over year, it happens, so when you find a good, well-balanced, FUN game, you stick with it, IMO.
it's funny to see ppl saying: it's like in real life for 1 situation and then on another situation ppl say it's just a game with flaws and therefore can't be like RL
Last edited by deathspawn666; 09-04-2012 at 20:34.
Thanks for the explanation, themadsheep2001, it maybe a case that SI need to think about how "CCC" are registered. Even since FM11 I took a CCC as red and was naturally disappointed and confused why I kept missing so many.
I just had an interesting home game against mid table opposition. I have been winning lately, but not emphatically, so I decided to undo some manual individual player instructions back to default, and I had eight SOT and eight "CCC", and scored 3 goals! Before you explained the how to understand "CCC", I would have been left scratching my head why I couldn't score more, even after a reasonably decent home win.
It is difficult not to feel sympathy for the disillusioned, because I know how much time and effort I can put into trying to understand the game. Maybe we're just not meant to understand everything about it. I would be fascinated to have a long term FM gamer, whom knows the game inside and out, to sit down with me and show me exactly what they mean when they explain things.
I think for the time being, it just comes back to how much you can personally accept out of the game, especially when you lose, draw after dominating, or miss umpteen chances, and have no idea what you did wrong. Hopefully, SI can help the ignorant (like myself) to better understand future versions of the game with better improved tactical advice from coaching staff etc. Personally I thought the tactical advice from FM11 was more informed, albeit not entirely accurate. Pre-match advice on FM12 tends to come across incredibly vague now.
You would expect to do well against smaller teams and you would expect a tougher match against bigger teams in real life.
Its really very simple you can continue trying to beat the "coding", achieving frustrating results and whining on the forums about it or you can do some reading in the tactics forum, apply the knowledge you gain and achieve less random results.
Which would you prefer to do?
re strikers, use the advice wwfan gave arsenalfan7:
Detail your thoughts on how you should be creating chances.
Who should the main goalscorers be?
How are you getting the ball to them?
Where is the support coming from?
How are you trying to open space?
Are you playing patiently or driving forward at tempo?
Beyond that there are plenty of much more detailed pieces of help in the tactical section. You'll soon find your strikers scoring and your keeper hard to beat on the few chances you have to deal with.
I just showed a small piece about your strikers. There is far more than that floating around.
Anything the AI can do, we can do better. Until you accept the above you will always struggle.
The information and help is there. Use it or don't use it, at the end of the day we all have the same game, and the people giving advice are not having the problems you are having. Upto you to use that advice or keep struggling. Either way, I'm off for a drink.
I think you've earned a big one! hahaha
You are just being ridiculous here. If you constantly do well or badly, there's a reason for it. Likewise, if you suffer random results, there's a reason for that as well. I might even agree that the in-game feedback could be better if you could accept that you might be doing something wrong, even after trying to incorporate the advice you've been given.If "it's my tactics", like the saying goes around these parts by what I call fan-boys, I'll never know thanks to no feedback.
If I'm right though and those who defend the game just happen to be lucky on the right times, once again we can't tell, thanks to close to no feedback.
I'll just chip in here with a recent personal experience of mine. I am playing as Tenerife and I've brought the club from Segunda Division B1 to the top flight with back to back promotions. I've spent two full seasons now at the top flight, finishing 10th and then 3rd. 10 games into this season I am top of the table and looking set to qualify out of my CL group. I then come across an away fixture vs Granada. This has always been a very bad fixture, only the one draw from 3 tries and last time out I got stuffed 4-0 in the last game of last season. They are 16th in the table with pretty poor morale, not much different to when I had my last two defeats there.
So instead of playing my normal game and getting beat again I decided against the Standard/Control strategy with aggressive shouts and went with a Counter strategy with shouts that would normally be used with a counter attacking play. I knew that if I gave them room to work, it would go wide, get swung in and headed home. That's how they beat me last time so I had to address that.
I decided that I would try and keep things really tight and burst on the break. That's exactly what happened. I had 4 shots on target, 3 were scored and they barely looked like scoring themselves despite having more shots. I have played both Barca and Real this season and in both games I played very aggressively, lots of pressing and ball retention. I got 2 1-1 draws from those games and if my players took their chances better I may have scored winners in both but the high tempo didn't help create clear quality chances. The slower play vs Granada did and I got a lingering monkey off my back.
So to cut a long-ish story short, what works against a Manchester United or a Barcelona or a Bayern Munich might not work against a Novara, a Getafe or a Wolves. No 2 games are the same and you have to adapt, exploit opposition weaknesses and shut down their strengths. The AI is still fairly limited as has been mentioned. So use your brain, think like a manager, and you should see your conversion rates improve.
It's totally understandable why people get so frustrated. Have a quick look at 1 month of league fixtures.
Sitter after sitter goes begging. What on earth are you supposed to do?
According to the game:
Link 1 - 2 CCC, 7 Half chances (Hartlepool had 0 CCC and 3 half chances; 2 went in.)
Link 2 - 3 CCC, 7 Half chances (Rotherham had 2 CCC and 2 half chances)
Link 3 - 3 CCC, 3 Half chances (Rochdale had 5 CCC and 2 half chances)
My players get into poisition...BAM! Row z. Their striker gets into (arguably worse) positions, 0-1.
The interpretation of CCCs in FM is hugely liberal. Basically, a chance is a CCC if the player is in a position from which, should he do everything right, he will score. However, doing everything right still means he often has to:
Dribble at pace with defenders breathing down his neck
Get the ball on his stronger foot
Miss the keeper
Hit the target
We've long argued for a more precise interpretation involving distance from goal, space around the player, angle of shot, touches taken, angle of the supply pass etc. With the current interpretation, the user requires a very subjective eye to determine between genuinely good chances and those that the player will do well to convert. Long term, I'd expect the interpretation to get better and more useful, but until it does, it is a very flawed stat.
and i'm still waiting for a mod to show tactics,instructions, whatever it is, to make my strikers not miss ridiculous 1vs1 and also make Casillas actually save 1vs1 because after 3 seasons he still hasn't done 1
Last edited by deathspawn666; 10-04-2012 at 01:01.
2: Each player has personal characteristics (PPMs) plus ability levels (attributes). By analysing what they are and setting relevant Roles/Duties/Sliders, you can get very different behaviours from very different players.
3: Creative Freedom allows players to exercise more or less free will. As does the flair attribute, which will naturally override instructions to any player if it is high.
As for the missed chances/converted chances, if you are approaching them in a similar manner to dealing with Ramos then you deserve what you are getting.
2: i can't say a player "hey you got a yellow card be careful" or "hey stop getting those stupid yellow cards when there is no need to even tackle the player"". i also don't see anything in Ramos stats or PPMs that would make him take his stupid decisions, his "agression" stat is now 15, have players with more and they don't see yellow cards for stupid reasons
3: and where can we see flair attribute? right we can't...creative freedom on defense? that would be interesting but then if i conceed the answer would be "it's your tactics"
and why is there no answer for strikers missing so many 1vs1 against small teams? all i see is ppl saying go defensive, hell i even tried 4-2-1-2-1 (2DMS and 1 MC) with control mentality and guess what still conceed in a freaking CA because apparently 2 DCs can't mark 1 lonely striker that is between them 2 and 1 meter away from them. also why is every AI crossing in CA so perfect that always goes near the AI striker? i'm yet to see 1 crossing from CA go out,meanwhile dimaria,ozil,douglas costa,william,gaitan keep doing it...i'm starting to abandon wingers tactics, they all made stupid crossing that either go out or straight into keeper
Last edited by deathspawn666; 10-04-2012 at 01:18.
2: 15 is high aggression. A defender with that level of aggression will pick up yellows, no matter what.
3: Flair is a player attribute. It is under mental attributes. Some level of CF is useful, even vital, for defenders. Doesn't have to be high, but shouldn't be set to the absolute minimum.
Just as a bit of back up on the yellow card issue. Sergio Ramos in my Tenerife save has amassed an incredible 11 yellow cards in 10 games with 1 red this season. I also note he has only 11 for decisions, so he's not the most intelligent player either and will make silly decisions, and in his position, he'll make a lot of poor tackle choices
If I have 20 shots, and they're all crap, yet the opponent has one good shot and scores, I have no complaints.
My complaints come when I have 5 CCC and the opponent has 1 or even 0 yet wins 2-0.
I really can't recall a game in which the AI had more CCC's than me, but I won the game/got a point, even when managing lesser sides.
I remember last year (or two years ago), someone from SI acknowledging that because it is easier to for the User to generate more CCC's, the ratio of CCC's to shots had been toned down. I don't know if this is still the case, but it would not surprise me.
2: yes it's high but i'm using him as FB and i have players with same aggression and they behave better after having 1 yellow card. also i'm currently unable to lower his agresion, it went down 1 point when i cut his salary first time but after that it just won't go down.
3: hum i think i mistaken (in transalation) the atributte you were talking about, my bad on that
Last edited by deathspawn666; 10-04-2012 at 01:59.
I think I'm just massively unlucky or a tactical disaster at times.
Relegation candidates in horrific morale get one shot on target (from a corner) and it goes in. My players are motivated, playing with confidence and yet they still can't convert chances, so frustrating.
I think I'll just accept these as pure luck from now on, cbf anymore.
and i concede another 2 goals in a match, one of which was some buggy own goal, from a cross.
every cross of mine is magically caught or cleared,
well yea because i won 3-2. ;)
no reason for a cross to be whiped in and to bouce off a defender while the keeper stands there, none.
wouldn't the red cards also be caused by fluidity? tracking back and making late tackles etc.
I tell you what I am sick unto death of...its the damn AI putting in a cross and having their FW/Winger come in and do the little slide with a toe touch putting the ball past my keeper. In my first 2 league games of my new season I've giving up 4 goals ALL by this same damn sequence. 4 shots on target all 4 goals all 4 sliding toe touch goals. Enough All Ready!
yea that happens to me.
my team did it in the previous season, but now the keeper or defenders get to them.