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Thread: Open Letter to SIGames

  1. #1
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    Default Open Letter to SIGames

    Dear SIGames,

    I have been a fan for many, many years. The first game of yours I played was CM2 Spanish Leagues - and yes, I still have the game. Since then, I have bought every new version of the manager series, convinced colleagues and friends to buy your games and have done so proudly. I have even been a beta-tester for you on CM4 and even though it was unpaid and none of us beta-testers got as much as a free game as a token of your appreciation for our efforts, I have carried on being an devoted fan.

    Once, a few years ago, I bought a copy of one of your games on-line, but regretted it shortly thereafter and have since then only bought physical copies - there is just something special about stuff you can hold in your hands, it is nice having a shiny, new CD to insert into your computer and listen to the disc being spun around while the game is getting installed. I just love it. Maybe I am a bit of a dinosaur in that way, but that's who I am.

    In the old days, you could buy the game at your local software-pusher, carry it home in one of those nice little, shiny bags, unwrap it and install it. And then just play the game, have fun, enjoy yourself. But not anymore. No, that is no longer an option. When I bought FM 2012, I was forced to register on-line through a service, I have carefully tried to avoid since I bought that one game on-line years ago. There was no choice: Yes, you have bought the game, but no, you are not allowed to play it -because STEAM is now part of the deal.

    So, to play the game I already bought, I had no choice but to register it with STEAM. Why is that? Do you think we, your loyal fan base, are cheating you out of something? Was it too complicated to create a working update-service within the game? Do you get paid by STEAM to force us to use their service? I don't know, but I do know what I suspect to be the truth.

    Nevermind, I digress, back to the point. My son, who is 10 years old, is now also playing your game. He loves it and spends hours trying to beat his dad or simply become the best manager ever. We have lots of fun with the game, which sparks interesting discussions about football, tactics, technique, stars of the past and much more. He is also becoming a hard core little fan of the game, which is fine by me.

    The problem I am now facing is your choice of forcing STEAM on me. Last week I was going to start up a save game I have been playing for the last 4 months (the last month-and-a-half on a new computer) when STEAM suddenly chose to deny me access to the game. I got a bit annoyed, tried again, but no such luck. Apparently, STEAM has now found out, that I have tried to log on to their service from a new computer - so, they of course locked my account. Guess what? I now can't play FM anymore, because STEAM says I am not allowed to. I mean, why shouldn't they? After all, you guys at SIGames have given them the power to do so.

    Honestly, I got a bit mad and disappointed. Not only because of STEAM, but also you guys at SI. I had no choice as to get in touch with STEAM to get my account re-opened. Easy peasy, right? No, absolutely not. Let me just tell you, that 2 years ago, I moved out my old apartment. Because of that, the email account provided to me there was closed. No biggie, I thought, I'll just change my info as I discover where I actually need to do so. Guess what - I later found out, that my old email-address was used more than 300 different places. Personally, I was surprised, that is a LOT.

    Sadly, just last week I found out that the same address was used for my STEAM account some years ago. Sadly, as STEAM said it had sent a new code for me to be allowed back into my account, which would then enable me to play FM. I had no choice, I started up a support case on the STEAM website, telling them I no longer have access to that email account and could they please help me.

    A measily 26 hours later, they replied. I was told to check my LAN-settings and then get back to them if that didn't solve the issue. LAN-settings? Hmmm... I checked, made no difference which I reported to the support case, while repeating my problem: STEAM software needs for me to put in a code, which has been sent to an email account that no longer exists.

    A short wait (51 hours) later, a supporter told me, that all I needed to do was to log in to STEAM using the code sent to my email (yes, the account that no longer exists). Oh, and by the way, if I had not received the code, I should check my account (yes, the account that no longer exists) to see if it had been caught in the spam-filter.

    Okay, I got mad and kind of lost it! I wrote back to them that the email address originally registered didn't exist anymore, and yes, there was a bit of profanity involved. The nice supporter then replied, that the easiest way to get around me not receiving the email with the code enabling me to log into STEAM was to log into STEAM and change the email address registered in the system. This was another 28 hours later.

    What to do? I wrote back and "kindly" described the problem again. I now have to prove to them that I have bought the game, or they won't help me get my account up and running again. I need to prove that I am in possession of a game, they didn't sell to me, before they will allow me to play it. Oh, and we are a few hours short of a full week since STEAM locked my account.

    Dear SI, could you pretty please with sugar on top consider not to force STEAM down my throat? I am not the only one having problems with them, which is evident when you read about their service around the Internet

    I have bought my game IRL. You at SIGames have gotten your money. Why do you then give the power to deny me access to a game I have paid for in full to some *insert profanity* people who know not what they are doing?

    Should you choose to force STEAM on me again for your next release, I don't think I'll buy your game. Paying you to let someone else control my game just seems wrong.
    Last edited by Arsdfarg; 15-03-2012 at 22:18.

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    steam..
    of course they want proof, you bought the game there should be some sort of CD key on it, supply that to them it SHOULD be ok.
    try including in your email that you want the code sending to a new email address you provide, i am sure i have changed it via support before.

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    You seem to miss the point, scott.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scott MUFC View Post
    steam..
    of course they want proof, you bought the game there should be some sort of CD key on it, supply that to them it SHOULD be ok.
    try including in your email that you want the code sending to a new email address you provide, i am sure i have changed it via support before.
    I assume that you would need to mail them from your current registered email address with Steam which the OP does not have access to.

    To the OP, I agree with you completely but I also see the benefits of Steam from SI's perspective and understand why they've chosen it.

    I am very picky about what I install on my PC and which processes run in the background. I hate that Steam has to be running for me to play FM but it's either that or no FM
    Last edited by ShirazS; 15-03-2012 at 22:31.

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    Sounds horribly frustrating, I had similar trouble accessing my dormant account last year, thankfully it only took 4 days to resolve the problem & since then I have not had any reason to raise a support ticket.

    Don't worry though as based on a recent announcement by SEGA there could be some good news.

    We 'might' not have to use Steam next time, the bad news is that the possible alternative is a whole lot worse.

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    no you dont, steam support setup is seperate from steam, so can use differant emails.
    i had steam crash randomly while playing, game still ran. last time it closed with it

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    Please don't turn this into a thread of Pro Steam vs Boo Steam or it will have to be closed.

    Please stay on topic and try to help the guy get back to his game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barside View Post
    Sounds horribly frustrating, I had similar trouble accessing my dormant account last year, thankfully it only took 4 days to resolve the problem & since then I have not had any reason to raise a support ticket.

    Don't worry though as based on a recent announcement by SEGA there could be some good news.

    We 'might' not have to use Steam next time, the bad news is that the possible alternative is a whole lot worse.
    Can you link me to this announcement?

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    basically you are near the end if they want proof of purchase.
    you have your current email set on the support site i presume, if not, you can set it somewhere just say you cant access your other and to use the other one provided (provide it in the message if not sure) they SHOULD send any codes to that one, provide your proof, give them a day/week to reopen it (they should send you a password by email, that is what they sent you i guess)

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    You have bought a physical copy of the game, right?

    Then proof that you own the game is simple, write your steam username and the date on a piece of paper, put the DVD and case on top of the paper, so you can clearly see your username and the date, take a photo of it and email it to steam.

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    surely Arsdfarg can easily log into his steam account and change his personal details right ? It's not that hard to be honest. Does he remember his Steam login details ? that's all I had to do and all was good again

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ackter View Post
    Please don't turn this into a thread of Pro Steam vs Boo Steam or it will have to be closed.

    Please stay on topic and try to help the guy get back to his game.
    You entered just in time I was beginning to write a rant. No matter how much I strongly disagree with the OPs views I shall try and help. Have you tired to get in touch with the people who ran your old email. Maybe they could set it back up on a temporary basis so you can log in and get what you need and properly sort out the fact that you will no longer have access to said email address, I mean you if move house you let any companies you deal with know that fact, changing your email is no different. Also do what mack said, I find Valve is a great company and Steam is a wonderful service. Not sure about you but i have lost countless games due to CD damages/losses or Keys gone missing where with steam i have a safe and reliable service keeping every thing i own in a nice bundle that no mater where i go i can have access too, with out the need of physical items that can easily get lost/damaged/stolen.

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    I have no use for Steam beyond playing FM, but despite my original scepticism I can't say it's caused me any problems. I keep it in offline mode, only logging in when a patch is available, which seems to have kept it running stably.

    At most it's a minor irritant popping up when I boot the computer, and telling me about the odd achievement, as well as taking up a small amount of resources.

    Ideally I hope SI get rid of Steam as I do disagree with the concept of us having to run 3rd party software to play a game we've paid for, but it's not going to stop me buying FM.

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    When I got my new laptop Steam thought I was hacking my own account, but they just went a relatively simple authorization process (which includes sending a link to my email with a couple code verifications to enter) with me and I could access my games and download them 5 minutes after I went through this process. Did you go through this process?

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    My comment has been deleted, so I'll try again. Is there anywhere on this forum where we can engage in a 'pro steam vs. boo steam' debate?

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    Quote Originally Posted by offleyhornet View Post
    My comment has been deleted, so I'll try again. Is there anywhere on this forum where we can engage in a 'pro steam vs. boo steam' debate?
    Last time that debate happened some people were banned for foul language and insulting other members, so if you decide to even post up a thread like that it will get closed for sure...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mack4life View Post
    You have bought a physical copy of the game, right?

    Then proof that you own the game is simple, write your steam username and the date on a piece of paper, put the DVD and case on top of the paper, so you can clearly see your username and the date, take a photo of it and email it to steam.
    This is the correct thing to do. Steam's support is really no difference from any other company who uses email as their main means of support. Conversations over email can take a long time, and it is common that readers mis-interpret the content in the email and so it is very easy to feel frustrated and mis-understood. If you want the issue to be resolved quickly, you need to provide them with overwhelming evidence that you own the account. On top of what mack4life said, I'd also write and mark your old and new email addresses on the paper so they can be in no doubt that the photograph refers to your request.

    Steam support aren't deliberately slow and frustrating - there are procedures to go through and criteria to meet in order to make changes to someone's account - which is why it can take time. I've been in the same situation as you, but I provided a list of all my games I own on Steam, all gifts I had bought and previous address history in my initial email. I got my email address switched without having to provide any more information. Don't see it as a challenge, it is just the progression of the industry as it moves towards digital distributions.

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    For some reason your account details were lost on your system so it needs to be verified ,i know it sucks and frustrating but its to provent accounts from being stolen
    follow this instructions to prove you own the game


    https://support.steampowered.com/kb_...2347-QDFN-4366

    Again this would not be happening if you had your email contact updated ( you can change this on steam settings) , ultimately its your own fault , its the same if you change house and not update it on your post office ( so mail can be sent to the right house ), finances etc
    Last edited by Aim_Less; 16-03-2012 at 01:48.

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    Just a general reply, to sum up my problems with this:

    - Steam has locked my account. I can't access it in any way, thus can't change email addresses.
    - My account has been locked because of me using it on a computer, I have been using for months - apparently, it is now a new, unregistered computer.
    - I have never read anywhere or gotten any info that I remember, that I have to register hardware in a software solution to be able to play a game bought somewhere else
    - My old email account is closed - which is the one STEAM keeps referring to when sending new codes
    - I have not used STEAM for 3-4 years, thus not considered changing my personal details (I never expected to use the service again)
    - Only in STEAMS 4th reply to my problems did they actually read what I have written in the support case
    - I still see no reason to be forced to use a 3rd party software to play a game bought and paid for IRL

    And yes, I have sent in the proof they are requesting, in the way the have requested it.
    Last edited by Arsdfarg; 16-03-2012 at 08:19. Reason: Corrected a meaningless sentence

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    i'm sure FM players must be the only ones that have problems with Steam. i dont see this much vitriol being aimed at Steam by Deus Ex or Mafia 2 players.
    either FM players dont know how to use Steam or there is some inherent problem that affects the game FM over any other game on the Steam Client.

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    Quote Originally Posted by postal postie View Post
    i'm sure FM players must be the only ones that have problems with Steam. i dont see this much vitriol being aimed at Steam by Deus Ex or Mafia 2 players.
    either FM players dont know how to use Steam or there is some inherent problem that affects the game FM over any other game on the Steam Client.
    Most people here never used Steam or anything similar in the past they are used to play from the DVD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aim_Less View Post
    Most people here never used Steam or anything similar in the past they are used to play from the DVD
    so would it be fair to say that the majority of the complaints here about Steam is due to a lack of knowledge on how to use it?

    until i bought Mafia 2 back in January 2011, i had never used Steam either. sure i had it installed (since 2005) and there were various half-life mods that were cued up ready to download, but i never really used it.
    i would definitely consider myself a convert now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by postal postie View Post
    so would it be fair to say that the majority of the complaints here about Steam is due to a lack of knowledge on how to use it?
    I think that's true to an extent, when Civ went Steam only it was very similar for the first year.

    It's a combination of people getting used to it and Steam/SI sorting the issues that are peculiar to FM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barside View Post
    Sounds horribly frustrating, I had similar trouble accessing my dormant account last year, thankfully it only took 4 days to resolve the problem & since then I have not had any reason to raise a support ticket.

    Don't worry though as based on a recent announcement by SEGA there could be some good news.

    We 'might' not have to use Steam next time, the bad news is that the possible alternative is a whole lot worse.
    Christ that means its Origin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispypaul View Post
    Christ that means its Origin.
    Then it will be over for me after being one of the 1st buyers of CM1 and every version after it. Definately.
    Not going through this process again the next version.
    Last edited by Stampler; 16-03-2012 at 14:37.

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    [QUOTE=Barside;7661264]Sounds horribly frustrating, I had similar trouble accessing my dormant account last year, thankfully it only took 4 days to resolve the problem & since then I have not had any reason to raise a support ticket.

    Don't worry though as based on a recent announcement by SEGA there could be some good news.

    We 'might' not have to use Steam next time, the bad news is that the possible alternative is a whole lot worse.[/QUOTE]

    Would you please elaborate or point me in the direction of the source of this information.

    Cheers
    xxx

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    I was in almost the same situation as the OP a little while back. My problem was that i had forgotten the login access to my steam-registered email. When i wanted to change my email from inside steam, i needed to log into my (now lost) email-adress to retrieve a confirmation. I solved the problem by verifying ownership by entering a code of one of the games on the steam account. I'm guessing that will solve the OP's problem as well.

    I can relate to how frustrating the situation is, and support just sending standard replies without actually reading what the requestor says is simply not acceptable. I work in first line support as well, and know very well that some costumers doesn't know exactly what they want, but when the problem is described precisely i take pride in giving them an accurate and relevant answer back.

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    Less bitchiness, more helping in nice ways please.

    Ta.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pigfacemonkeyman View Post
    Would you please elaborate or point me in the direction of the source of this information.

    Cheers
    xxx
    I would imagine its related to this

    http://www.gamingbus.com/2012/03/16/...r-3rd-parties/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispypaul View Post
    Christ that means its Origin.
    EA Origin would be enough for me to never buy FM again. And I'm a big Steam supporter. Origin is an evil piece of software and a breach of privacy.

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    Let's wait and see eh, far too early to speculate.

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    Origin would be a bit rubbish but im hopeful with the success Steam has been overall SI wont change again.

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    Noooooooo! This is the last FM for me if it does go Origin, evil EA arguments aside, it's windows only.

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    Origin = Goodbye FM

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsdfarg View Post

    So, to play the game I already bought, I had no choice but to register it with STEAM. Why is that? Do you think we, your loyal fan base, are cheating you out of something? Was it too complicated to create a working update-service within the game? Do you get paid by STEAM to force us to use their service? I don't know, but I do know what I suspect to be the truth.
    Here's the answer:
    1) SI wanted to reduce piracy levels, and thought a big way of doing that was delaying piracy until the game was released. FM11 was pirated before official release, FM12 wasn't pirated before release. It isn't supposed to be a punishment for the loyal fanbase, who SI are very grateful for, but
    2) It is also good for SI that they always know which update their players are playing on when they report a bug.
    3) The second hand market is reduced- this wasn't explicitly stated by SI, but it will have helped them financially.

    Valve don't pay SI to make FM Steam-only, or if they do then it is a tiny amount in comparison to game sales.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsdfarg View Post
    Dear SIGames,


    Should you choose to force STEAM on me again for your next release, I don't think I'll buy your game. Paying you to let someone else control my game just seems wrong.
    Feel for you mate and have similar feelings. Would always buy the boxed version, and personally feel that being unable to play a game you have paid for actually breaks the sales of goods act.

    The situation you have found yourself is similar to what I found myself in, with one key difference; I still had the same email address.

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    Just to add a bit of information.

    I have 1 copy of the game, I play it on 3 different computers. Up until last weekend it has never been a problem. But apparently SI or Steam via the latest update, introduced more security, meaning I have to enter a security code every time I start the game on a different computer than last time.

    I have never, and I mean NEVER, from release until last weekend have had to enter this code.

    So something has changed for sure. I am very much for protecting the rights of SI for developing the game and very much support SI and have bought every game, and I will most likely continue to do so, but I also strongly recommend finding a tool that does not cause so much irritation for so many customers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispypaul View Post
    Christ that means its Origin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stampler View Post
    Then it will be over for me after being one of the 1st buyers of CM1 and every version after it. Definately.
    Not going through this process again the next version.
    Quote Originally Posted by rancer890 View Post
    EA Origin would be enough for me to never buy FM again. And I'm a big Steam supporter. Origin is an evil piece of software and a breach of privacy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nellie View Post
    Noooooooo! This is the last FM for me if it does go Origin, evil EA arguments aside, it's windows only.
    Quote Originally Posted by wackettdagenham View Post
    Origin = Goodbye FM
    Oh man I'm laughing hysterically right now
    Origin could be the death of FM

    On a more serious note, I don't think there's really anything we can do to help. His issues are with steam and he has talked to steam support. There's nothing we can do to help speed up that process.

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    to go to origin is to commit commercial suicide.

    and yes steam support is not the fastest, but it thourough

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    Personally if it was a choice between slow but thorough, or fast but very easy for someone to claim my account, I know which I'd choose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mije1983 View Post
    Personally if it was a choice between slow but thorough, or fast but very easy for someone to claim my account, I know which I'd choose.
    Well..............which is it?

    I've waited over an hour already!

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    It would be very good if SI strongly suggested that people always run Steam in offline mode, This seems to avoid most of the issues I have seen people having. You only need to start the game online once, then quit it, thereafter always start Steam in offline mode. Just make sure that box that says "Don't save account credentials on this computer" is NOT ticked.
    Repeat when needed, eg. after you have been online to update a patch.

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    if people are complaining about one service (Steam), going to another similar service (Origin or any other one) is not likely to solve the original issue. the original issue being ignorance on how it works. it also doesn't allow a company like SI build a working relationship with any one service, which is very important if they want this sort of process to work smoothly.

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    I know fully well how steam works and I would still never even consider touching it if it was for any other application apart from FM, which I find a bit too hard to boycott on principle. Luckily I have no interest in any other games. Going to Origin however would be a step too far even for me.

  45. #45
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    My last comment was deleted, possibly because of the sarcastic tone, or possibly because it was swept up in a bunch of comments that were deleted from this thread. Either that, or mentioning FML outside its dedicated thread is now verboten.

    The point still stands, though- FM Live operated within its own client, which SI used as a delivery portal for updates, not dissimilar to how Steam is being used. Yes, the game was based entirely in that client as well, which is a different story to FM, but as a starting point it must be worth some consideration. If using a delivery platform of Steam's nature is considered essential for FM, surely people would be more comfortable to do so if a third party was not involved- that's where most of the objections and difficulties are stemming from.

    Yes, yes, development/maintenance costs etc., I know. My sky is full of pie.

  46. #46
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    A in-house solution would be much easier to swallow - even if it came with even more nuisances than Steam. Being forced to a "membership" with a third party entity that you do not want, is bad. Very bad. It's like those music streaming websites (like Spotify) that forces you to have a facebook account in order to use it. I don't want anything to do with Facebook, but I would be interested in paying for music streaming. They have lost a customer. SI nearly lost me as a customer with this forced Steam relationship, but, like some others here, I am weak and spineless, and decided to bite the bullet. Because I like the game too much.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aim_Less View Post
    For some reason your account details were lost on your system so it needs to be verified ,i know it sucks and frustrating but its to provent accounts from being stolen
    follow this instructions to prove you own the game


    https://support.steampowered.com/kb_...2347-QDFN-4366

    Again this would not be happening if you had your email contact updated ( you can change this on steam settings) , ultimately its your own fault , its the same if you change house and not update it on your post office ( so mail can be sent to the right house ), finances etc
    Poor analogy tbh. What you are saying is that, basically, if you move house and don't have your post re-directed you won't be able to do certain things: like use your bank account (except you can as you still have your bank card), drive your car - driving licence at your old address (except you can as you still know how to drive and can drive).

    Yes, details should be updated, however, we are all human. Steam should have a quicker response to a customer, 2 days isn't acceptable when it is a product you have already paid for. And, from my own experience, some of their customer service people seem to lack the ability to read exactly what you have written to them.

  48. #48
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    Big man, little man. Such a sad world, sigh

  49. #49
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    As this is tending to stray from its intended path and as it's actually a Steam problem rather an FM one, I'm closing this.

    The decision on DRM for FM13 won't have been made yet so let's wait on that before imagining demons which may not exist.

    It would be welcome if the OP could let us know if/when/how Steam resolve his problem in due course.

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