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  1. #1
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    Default too many bookings in this game?

    in certain situations a yellow card is fine, but left and right backs and strikers always seem to get booked very often, for both teams. it is leading to these players being sent off in some games for very little.

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    I think it depends in the league you are managing. In Italy, it's a rare thing if you can end a match without a single yellow card.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vasilli07 View Post
    I think it depends in the league you are managing. In Italy, it's a rare thing if you can end a match without a single yellow card.
    They sure seem to like dishing cards out in the SPL as well, finished this game with 8 men but that's what I get for letting Johan Mjallby set my oi's for me I guess.


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    Quote Originally Posted by scott MUFC View Post
    in certain situations a yellow card is fine, but left and right backs and strikers always seem to get booked very often, for both teams. it is leading to these players being sent off in some games for very little.
    Check the player instructions for these positions because there is nothing in the game code that picks out certain psitions for bookings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrazT View Post
    Check the player instructions for these positions because there is nothing in the game code that picks out certain psitions for bookings.
    Are you sure about that? You have programmed the referee to discipline players for tackles from behind yes? In my opinion, there are many cards being given using what seems to be that rule in the wrong situations. For instance, what I see in the animation is a player sticking out a foot to trip over a player who have just turned his behind towards him. The referee blows the whistle as if someone was murdered and quickly hands out a yellow card, evidently for something considered a vicious foul.

    This happens almost every match, and has me wondering if these incidents are displayed badly in the animations or if there is simply no code to determine the force with which a tackle is performed - something which is essential to determine whether it deserves a card or is just a foul. Generally speaking, I rarely see yellow cards being given in real life when a foul has been made by a player nearly standing still, regardless of where he is on the pitch or if the tackle came from behind. The common denominator is, as said above, that these low-force fouls are done while the player having the ball is facing away from the tackler, while there seems to make little difference whether excessive force was used or not.

    So, again, are you sure that these yellow cards do not happen more often to attackers set to press the opposition defense who often turn around for a backpass, and to full backs pressing the wingers when they turn away from the goal while holding up the ball (which they do very often!)?

    Edit: or, as another explanation of these cards; are there too many attempts at tackling players from behind compared to real life?
    Last edited by BiggusD; 14-03-2012 at 17:37.

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    Some stats from the 3 big leagues based on 1 season.






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    i'm using default settings not increasing/decreasing tackling and playing very fluid so this is default

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    Quote Originally Posted by scott MUFC View Post
    i'm using default settings not increasing/decreasing tackling and playing very fluid so this is default
    Its not just about the tackling. As well as player attritbutes/aggression/dirtiness/PPMs/condition etc (we'll put those aside for now), players will also be forced into sloppy/late tackles if they are being forced to make challenges to avoid danger, In the full back positions I've found its because they are under severe pressure from the opposition wide man, and are getting skinned, or in danger of getting skinned. Have a look at the kind of play leading up to their bookings, cant say I see my forwards get too many bookings though so cant offer anything there sorry.

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    I would say this version of FM is the best in this respect. Previous versions were far too card-shy imo, but in FM12 I actually managed to pick up a fine for having six players booked in a game.

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    I only see more bookings when its a Derby game

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    I believe referees have attributes too that determines the number of cards he dishes out or how harsh he can be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vasilli07 View Post
    I believe referees have attributes too that determines the number of cards he dishes out or how harsh he can be.
    I'm pretty sure of this. Me and some mates did a season in the Irish leagues, and one of the refs picked up a rather unflattering nickname, because he tended to average 5 or 6 yellow cards every match.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vasilli07 View Post
    I believe referees have attributes too that determines the number of cards he dishes out or how harsh he can be.
    It's the discipline rating. The higher the more they like to play with cards.

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    The statistics overall I would imagine match up to real life numbers quite well, that's what they look for in their soak tests. However there are too many bookings being handed out in the first couple of minutes in a match. Had one where there were 2 in the first minute, 3 in the first three and finally five in the first ten minutes of the game - every single one of them for a standing tackle in a non-dangerous situation. That's quite frankly ridiculous and I don't think would ever happen in reality whereas it's not that rare in FM.

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    Seem to be a ton more since the patch to be fair, played a game as Toulouse and had something like 6 bookings and it seems to be my full backs pretty much EVERY game, what pisses me off more than anything is they are such soft bookings, you can back into someone a minute into the match and get booked I mean what the hell? the bookings on this game are pretty disgraceful and even though you can question some red cards in real life, I barely ever question yellows or feel they are too harsh or soft whereas on FM it seems the vast majority of yellow cards are harsh and/or soft and I rarely see a red.
    Last edited by kingpug; 13-03-2012 at 18:45.

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    Bookings in my game are less than Real Life in the EPL, so no issues for me.

    My squad is also the most discipline, half the amount of red and yellow cards than anyone else..

    All good here.

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    chris smalling
    played 19
    14 yellows 2 reds... playing at right back
    aggression only 14

    Nemanja vidic
    played 22/5
    8 yellows
    aggression 18
    playing Centre back

    Rio ferdinand
    played 21/3
    yellow cards 3
    aggression 8
    played at centre back

    patrice evra
    played 20
    yellow cards 8 red cards 1
    aggression 15
    left back

    doe not explain much, but smalling is getting far to many yellows, vidic should be getting loads, he doesnt. and the red cards are L/R backs

    fabio has also picked up 4 yellows in 4 apperances - 13 aggression

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    Quote Originally Posted by scott MUFC View Post
    chris smalling
    played 19
    14 yellows 2 reds... playing at right back
    aggression only 14

    Nemanja vidic
    played 22/5
    8 yellows
    aggression 18
    playing Centre back

    Rio ferdinand
    played 21/3
    yellow cards 3
    aggression 8
    played at centre back

    patrice evra
    played 20
    yellow cards 8 red cards 1
    aggression 15
    left back

    doe not explain much, but smalling is getting far to many yellows, vidic should be getting loads, he doesnt. and the red cards are L/R backs

    fabio has also picked up 4 yellows in 4 apperances - 13 aggression
    Have a look at how you are getting them for smalling, because im willing to bet they are coming from tackles under pressure.

    Fabio is fabio, picks them up for fairly often, his position stat isnt great at the start, and if he is playing high up the pitch he can be caught out easily, thus leading to a rash tackle.

    Dont see why Vidic should be getting loads though, high aggressive, but his postioning, marking, anticipation, tackling, concentraction are all superb. What roles do your full backs have?

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    they are just central defenders set to defend
    but are forward for corners.
    and smalling picks up another yellow... and does the same thing minutes later and doesnt get sent off
    Last edited by scott MUFC; 14-03-2012 at 00:32.

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    My FBs stats are thus:

    1st choice DR: P 34 (3) Y 5 R 0
    1st choice DL: P 36 (4) Y 4 R 0
    Rotation DR/L: P 19 (4) Y 3 R 0
    New Signing DL: P 8 Y 2 R 0
    Young Cover: P 2 Y 0 R 0
    Veteran Cover: P 11 (4) Y 1 R 0

    In total:

    P 110 (15) Y 15 R 0

    As per usual, your problem is because of something you are doing, not inherent to the game.
    Last edited by wwfan; 14-03-2012 at 00:53.

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    it isn't something i am doing. attacking+very fluid with no added defencive dutys from the defaults. no get stuck in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scott MUFC View Post
    it isn't something i am doing. attacking+very fluid with no added defencive dutys from the defaults. no get stuck in.
    Ok. It isn't. Your ratio of 1 card every 0.65 FB appearances versus mine of 1 every 0.13 appearances is 100% down to FM being out to get you.

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    From my experience bookings are fine,with some minor exceptions where in some cases defenders that closed down quickly up the pitch for a tactical fault should get booking more offen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scott MUFC View Post
    it isn't something i am doing. attacking+very fluid with no added defencive dutys from the defaults. no get stuck in.
    Your fullbacks are getting forced to make last ditch tackles, this is why i was asking what roles and approach. They will be very high up the pitch, and more likely to be caught out by balls over the top, or balls in the wide spaces. Smalling is likely getting skinned, and having to make last ditch tackles. Fabio isnt great positionally to start off with and that can often put him in a bad starting point leading to a rash tackle, the fact that it is your full backs getting the bookings more than anyone backs this up for me.

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    yea seems so, but they are doing it too far up the pitch, phil jones got himself sent off now -_-, i dont mind them tackling but when they are in the final third lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by scott MUFC View Post
    yea seems so, but they are doing it too far up the pitch, phil jones got himself sent off now -_-, i dont mind them tackling but when they are in the final third lol
    Try playing with them with a support role, or even a slightly deeper line, so they arent being exposed all the time.

    Remember Jones has the gets forward at all times PPM as well, so he will bound up that flank, and can get caught on the counter.

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    I had this problem even though I had set tackling to normal. A further look into player instructions showed me that I had 6 players on hard tackling including both strikers who needless to say are awful at it. My bookings has gone down since so I would check to make sure.

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    If you're worried about too many booking play in Germany, the ref's there are as lenient as they get.

    Using a very similar tactical approach to one I've used in Portugal, England, Italy, Scotland & Spain I hardly ever have players sent off (struggling to recall one in the last 5 seasons) & if I get 3 bookings in a match then it's been a rough game, I've seen games with over 40 fouls not have a single booking.

    IMHO there is a flaw in the ME when it comes to officiating but I cannot pin down what it is.
    Last edited by Barside; 14-03-2012 at 12:59.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barside View Post

    IMHO there is a flaw in the ME when it comes to officiating but I cannot pin down what it is.
    Ah the old "i dont know if there is a bug here but im going find it one way or another" ;) hahahaha

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    Ah the old "i dont know if there is a bug here but im going find it one way or another" ;) hahahaha
    I'll have you know that I'm very thorough when it comes to investigating odd behaviour & the game has proven me wrong a few times.

    Bookings are an odd one as there is a correlation between FM & real world numbers but having managed in different leagues around Europe I'm of the opinion that this is solely due to a contrived adjustment in officials.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barside View Post
    I'll have you know that I'm very thorough when it comes to investigating odd behaviour & the game has proven me wrong a few times.

    Bookings are an odd one as there is a correlation between FM & real world numbers but having managed in different leagues around Europe I'm of the opinion that this is solely due to a contrived adjustment in officials.
    I know you do, you post a good number of bugs you find, a helpful fanboi ;) hahaha
    I couldnt really comment i have only really managed in the SPL in this version, havent really noticed anything wrong in terms of cards, few dodgy calls from time to time, especially in those contested goal situations, challenges on keepers and slow centre backs, but i dont think thats officiating mistakes in the same sense.

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    In all competitions I have had 69 yellows and 7 reds in 32 games, I'm PSG.

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    There's definatley something going on with foreign referees in this game. Don't know if it's meant to replicate RL with Premier league officials being more used to seeing rough & tumble matches and foreign refs used to a more technical game. God help them when they see a player actually tackle another player, theyre brains must go completely mental!

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    I've had 52 yellows and 4 reds in the league and i've only played 21 games, surely that's not right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wwfan View Post
    Ok. It isn't. Your ratio of 1 card every 0.65 FB appearances versus mine of 1 every 0.13 appearances is 100% down to FM being out to get you.
    So because your FB's gets less yellows that means every FB who gets more is because the guy in charge hasn't got a clue what he's doing? sorry, but that is ridiculous even for a Moderator and I'd be surprised if the stats you posted even existed, maybe you should upload the picture and show us because you've had 15 yellows in over a hundred games spread out between your FB's which doesn't make sense.

    There isn't a whole lot you can do to make your players tackle better you know, have it on easy tackling and tell the team to stay on feet? yep, I've tried that when I played as Barcelona but that didn't stop the yellows coming in, but I guess I just don't have a clue right?

    So I loaded up my new Barcelona save and after 8 games played of the season these are the statistics combined from all the refs:

    80 matches
    347 yellow cards
    17 red cards

    Now, 347 yellow cards dished out in 80 matches which is 4 per game? one ref has 37 from 6 which is about 6 a game, another has 32 from 4 which is 8 a game.

    The Premiership has about half as much yellow cards even though it's more physical compared to La Liga? Germany has even more by the looks of it.

    Latest save from latest patch, one ref in the French league has 50 yellow cards and 2 red cards after 7 matches yet in over 100 games your FB's alone only rack up 15 whereas after 8 games my striker has already got 3? I know you're talking about Full Backs but you seem to defend FM at every corner while blaming every problem on the user, if FM was as perfect as you make it out to be we wouldn't need patches even after what, 5 months?
    Last edited by kingpug; 15-03-2012 at 09:19.

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    Yeah Wwfan how about you back yourself up with some stats for a change........:P

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    Wwfan has fullbacks who rarely get booked, he concedes 1 goal every 3 matches and barely ever sees his AM lose the ball, let me guess, your players never get injured because you're just that awesome and they have a pass percentage of about 98% because again, you are just that damn good? all you seem to do is defend the game based on your own experiences providing zero proof while saying anyone that experiences something they don't agree with pretty much sucks.

    That guy got 2 red cards yet I don't, that clearly means I'm just awesome whereas he sucks? that seems to be your logic behind everything.

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    There is a very simple explanation, he knows what he is doing, more than probably anyone on the forums, he doesnt need to lie about anything as its all true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    There is a very simple explanation, he knows what he is doing, more than probably anyone on the forums, he doesnt need to lie about anything as its all true.
    Again, because he's using a different team with different players and his full backs get less yellows that means everyone else who does get more yellows doesn't know what he's doing as much as this awesome player? I highly doubt it, coming onto a forum with such nonsense is just dumb, that's like me coming here saying I scored 4 goals, if you only scored 3 then I'm better than you, you can't defend FM based on your own experience, ONE person can't come here and say FM is fine because it is for me, again it's pure nonsense.

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    Look, he helps code the match engine, he knows more about the game mechanics than 99% of the people that post on these forums, what he achieves is not through luck, or buying the worlds best players, its by him actually knowing what he should be doing. He is anything but arrogant about that fact, infact he tries his best to help people, although i have no idea why when you read posts like yours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    Look, he helps code the match engine, he knows more about the game mechanics than 99% of the people that post on these forums, what he achieves is not through luck, or buying the worlds best players, its by him actually knowing what he should be doing. He is anything but arrogant about that fact, infact he tries his best to help people, although i have no idea why when you read posts like yours.
    I couldn't care less if the guy made FM all by himself, fact is saying what he says is nonsense period and even if you know more about FM than 99% of people you don't say because my FB's get less yellows it means you're a bad player, you just don't, as I said above just because 1 person has luck with yellows doesn't mean everyone else who doesn't sucks. And the guy helps people? well yeah, he's a moderator that's kinda what he's supposed to do but even then, look through his posts and you will hardly see him doing his best to help people.

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    You clearly have not looked through his posts, and you also seem to have no idea why he has made that post, next time before you attack someone, know what your actually talking about. Right now your making yourself look like a fool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    You clearly have not looked through his posts, and you also seem to have no idea why he has made that post, next time before you attack someone, know what your actually talking about. Right now your making yourself look like a fool.
    I clearly have hence why I said at the end, "look through his posts" and I do know why he made that post, to defend FM by saying the person pretty much sucks because he doesn't get as many yellow cards with his FB's, next time you defend someone make sure you know what it is you're actually defending, but then again with almost 7k posts in 4 months you clearly enjoy posting nonsense, even then what I said still stands and is still true so why don't you stop defending the guy and let him defend himself.

    Anyway man, I said what I had to say and I don't want to derail a thread talking about 1 guy to his fanboy, so if you want to keep defending him do it in private and I'd be happy to, but I still think the way he's posting is ridiculous regardless of how good he is or what he's done on FM etc.
    Last edited by kingpug; 15-03-2012 at 19:04.

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    hahahaha i suggest you also think about what year it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    hahahaha i suggest you also think about what year it is.
    Oh yeah my bad, but still mate, 6800 posts in 16 months? I wonder how many mods/SI guys you've defended in that time, stop being a little fanboy and take it to private.

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    I defend all the mods, especially Ackter, he is my hero.

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    To be honest not sure what the fuss is about. I pointed out to the OP where i though he was going wrong, and he seemed to agree. I'm playing as United, I have the same back line as him, and his bookings are 3 times as high as mine. I did have a problem similar to him very early on and quickly spotted the issues, so i can pretty much see why his fullbacks are getting cards. It is partly down to his approach, but also down to the players themselves, and a few small changes, and more player development (Fabio, Jones' PPM) will see a fall in cards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by themadsheep2001 View Post
    To be honest not sure what the fuss is about. I pointed out to the OP where i though he was going wrong, and he seemed to agree. I'm playing as United, I have the same back line as him, and his bookings are 3 times as high as mine. I did have a problem similar to him very early on and quickly spotted the issues, so i can pretty much see why his fullbacks are getting cards. It is partly down to his approach, but also down to the players themselves, and a few small changes, and more player development (Fabio, Jones' PPM) will see a fall in cards.
    Problem wasn't with you though and people forget this is a game and it's not the same every time for every team and every player, you can play a match with one tactic and win 6-0, get 6 yellows, a red and some injuries and reload that same match with the exact same settings and get something completely different, I've tried it and FM isn't a 100% consistent game, it's football after all, my point is what happens to someone on their game doesn't mean it should happen to EVERYONE using the same team.

    I've had the same problem with my players getting inconsistent cards and they ain't for tackles, but stupid stuff like bumping into the player, well according to the commentary anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingpug View Post
    Problem wasn't with you though and people forget this is a game and it's not the same every time for every team and every player, you can play a match with one tactic and win 6-0, get 6 yellows, a red and some injuries and reload that same match with the exact same settings and get something completely different, I've tried it and FM isn't a 100% consistent game, it's football after all, my point is what happens to someone on their game doesn't mean it should happen to EVERYONE using the same team.

    I've had the same problem with my players getting inconsistent cards and they ain't for tackles, but stupid stuff like bumping into the player, well according to the commentary anyway.
    But the point I think you missed in the first place, was that wwfan was pointing out that this was an issue of the OP's making, which i also believe it is. he is playing very fluid, with attacking mentality his full backs will be very high up the pitch, and unless they are spot on can get themselves into difficulties leading to yellows and reds for the reasons i pointed out to him earlier. Of course its not 100%, everyone's game is different. But if he is picking up that many cards on his fullbacks over that kind of period, then he is doing something wrong. Regardless of how many different games, his figure is too high.

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    My defensive record and starting full backs from last season, as my word doesn't seem to be good enough.

    For the record, I am not saying anyone is rubbish at the game. Rather that the problems they report are down to something they are doing, not inherent to the game itself. Until people recognise that, you cannot help them.

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    I would say there is enough of a problem wit with the game & in particular the tactical interface.

    Take 'Hard' tackling as an example, in the real world I would define this as being a more forceful in a challenge, standing your ground so to speak but in FM world it means play dirty by pulling/holding/pushing players or committing persistent tripping offences to break up play.

    The ME does not always do what we would expect it to do based on the language used in the interface, rarely, sometimes & often are meaningless words based on how the ME interprets them when compared to how most football people would understand these instructions.

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    it just seems to me its very easy for them to get booked, and they are not getting booked when higher up the pitch, this is tackles in the final 3rd. i have no problems with them getting booked for a foul that stops them scoring, but the same player did the same, no booking. and i wasn't refering to just me either, i was facing blackburn, yakubu got sent off for 2 fouls. i dont think the ME is putting that sort of stuff into consideration.
    midfield is not getting yellows thrown at them, and they make the same sort of fouls.
    half the time i dont know who is booked when it isn't shown on the game i am watching.

  53. #53
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    You can get booked for a single foul that is a bit too late or is obviously stopping the player without attempting to win the ball or because you are consistently making niggling fouls. You need to know which type of foul your players tend to commit. If the former type, it is likely your team is getting stretched and forced into slightly reckless tackles. If so, your formation structure, roles, duties and mentality are likely to be the cause. If the team is merely niggly and dirty, then tackling hardness and time wasting are the more likely culprits.

  54. #54
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    team isn't getting stretched though, thats the strange thing. might just be a bunch of fussy refs, last 4 games been very little in terms of bookings and i havn't changed anything.
    oh he got 2 yellows AGAIN, making tackles he didn't need to make and being booked for "tripping" they player did that 3 times.
    Last edited by scott MUFC; 15-03-2012 at 22:56.

  55. #55
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    Then they must be niggly fouls? It HAS to be one or the other. Perhaps you should look back at the yellows and see why your players are picking them up.

    I suspect your FBs tend to get caught high because of your high line, their attacking mentalities and run from deep settings, and are forced into stretched tackles from behind when the opposition breaks. If you are totally dominant, they won't get booked. However, if the other team is looking to counter and reasonably effective in doing so, they'll get caught out of position and forced into taking action.

    If you want to stop it, YOU need to work out why it is happening and stop thinking it is inherent to the game or down to fussy refs. It is tactical / player related, and the solution is in your hands.

  56. #56
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    my last one was him being randomly infront of the back 4, therfore didn't need to make the tackle, how he ended up there i dunno.
    nani just got booked for a nothing challange though
    Last edited by scott MUFC; 15-03-2012 at 23:05.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scott MUFC View Post
    my last one was him being randomly infront of the back 4, therfore didn't need to make the tackle, how he ended up there i dunno..
    Were they backing off as players were running at them on the break?

  58. #58
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    i dunno, i might see what they are set as, smalling is lunging in like mad when on a yellow.
    just let assistand do a match, only bookings on my team are smalling and evra, and he played flat 4-4-2 so less holes.
    strange one this.
    Last edited by scott MUFC; 15-03-2012 at 23:12.

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    How do you not know if they are backing off? Look at the replay.

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    Fired up players are more inclined to lose discipline - something not mentioned yet in this thread.

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    it isn't that team talks nothing is happening.
    IT could be a game thing (i dont care if you say it isn't) looking at positional things, ferdinand was booked for pulling someone back on the wing halfway back in my half, thier player pulls someone back in the centre circle, nothing.
    looking through there is very little problems, just random tackles that seem to yellow cards when in the final 3rd and not, in the central area

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott MUFC View Post
    It could be a game thing (i dont care if you say it isn't)
    If you STILL think it is hard coded against the user, then there's really no help for you.


    looking at positional things, ferdinand was booked for pulling someone back on the wing halfway back in my half, thier player pulls someone back in the centre circle, nothing.
    Which makes perfect sense. Your team is being forced to make fouls in the final third, as they are being stretched, whereas AI teams make them higher up the pitch, as they aren't. As your foul happens in more dangerous circumstances, a yellow is far more likely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wwfan View Post
    If you STILL think it is hard coded against the user, then there's really no help for you.
    I don't think it's hard coded against the user. But I do think it's coded in such a way that in the long-term it affects the user much more than the AI teams. Same goes for injuries,especially injuries actually but that's another thing.

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    i dont think it is against the user, just think it isn't considering where the areas are, players that are not threating (aka centre circle) fouls are just fouls, if a player has a chance of getting to the goal, yellow - i expect that, but a foul that isn't a booking in the centre circle infront of my back foor (few feet away) is. the wing one shouldn't have been a booking, shirt tug yellow card, player had lots of cover. thats what i'm pointing at as a game thing, it is basing it on position.
    they arn't being forced to make these fouls, players just seem to be making them
    Last edited by scott MUFC; 15-03-2012 at 23:58.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scott MUFC View Post
    i dont think it is against the user, just think it isn't considering where the areas are, players that are not threating (aka centre circle) fouls are just fouls, if a player has a chance of getting to the goal, yellow - i expect that, but a foul that isn't a booking in the centre circle infront of my back foor (few feet away) is. the wing one shouldn't have been a booking, shirt tug yellow card, player had lots of cover. thats what i'm pointing at as a game thing, it is basing it on position.
    they arn't being forced to make these fouls, players just seem to be making them
    They'll be fouling and being booked for a reason. You just need to work out what it is. We've provided copious reasons for why it might be happening, and evidence that it doesn't happen to everyone. Your replies suggest it is to do with where the fouls are taking place, which further suggests you are getting stretched. It is now down to you to either fix it or live with your system resulting in many cards.


    I don't think it's hard coded against the user. But I do think it's coded in such a way that in the long-term it affects the user much more than the AI teams. Same goes for injuries,especially injuries actually but that's another thing.
    If you believe that, then you'll never work out how to stop it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wwfan View Post
    If you believe that, then you'll never work out how to stop it.
    Yes,I bet it is my fault that I had 4 injuries within a game. Absolutely. Especially when I didn't play fast,I didn't tackle hard and I didn't push high either...but I guess it is always our fault and the match engine of FM11 that was kept is flawless. Funny though that this particular engine had countless complains since last year.

    As long as we are close to the real life statistics it means we are ok,right?

  67. #67
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    There are copious reasons you might have had so many injuries. One is bad luck. However, you need to realise the ME does not know which team is the user team and which team is the AI team. If you are consistently getting more injuries than the AI teams average, it is down to the instructions you are providing the ME.

    There are always reasons for repeating patterns. Blaming the ME is not just fallacy, but a total cop out. The moment you realise that a high proportion of your problems are off your own making, you have taken the first step towards solving them.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by wwfan View Post
    There are copious reasons you might have had so many injuries. One is bad luck. However, you need to realise the ME does not know which team is the user team and which team is the AI team. If you are consistently getting more injuries than the AI teams average, it is down to the instructions you are providing the ME.

    There are always reasons for repeating patterns. Blaming the ME is not just fallacy, but a total cop out. The moment you realise that a high proportion of your problems are off your own making, you have taken the first step towards solving them.
    Really? Are the matches where the AI team scores with 1 shot after 90 minutes of being dominated whereas our players miss 15-25 shots throughout the game our fault as well? I didn't know that...

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apos View Post
    Really? Are the matches where the AI team scores with 1 shot after 90 minutes of being dominated whereas our players miss 15-25 shots throughout the game our fault as well? I didn't know that...
    Unfortunately, yes they are. You have developed a tactical system that produces a lot of shots but fails to successfully break down a solid defence. As the match progresses, your players will become more frustrated at their inability to convert and the opposition will become confident that they might get something out of the game. As you don't have a Plan B, this will repeat and repeat.

    There are other more mechanic reasons that might cause this as well (i.e. poor mentality slider settings), but the above is the core reason.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by wwfan View Post
    Unfortunately, yes they are. You have developed a tactical system that produces a lot of shots but fails to successfully break down a solid defence. As the match progresses, your players will become more frustrated at their inability to convert and the opposition will become confident that they might get something out of the game. As you don't have a Plan B, this will repeat and repeat.

    There are other more mechanic reasons that might cause this as well (i.e. poor mentality slider settings), but the above is the core reason.
    Riiiight...

    The reason is something called rubber band effect. Go look it up,even though I don't think it makes much sense since you don't seem to be taking off your rose-tinted googles for a second lately.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apos View Post
    Riiiight...

    The reason is something called rubber band effect. Go look it up,even though I don't think it makes much sense since you don't seem to be taking off your rose-tinted googles for a second lately.
    There's no rubber banding in FM.

    Quite simply, if it happens to you, but not to others (including myself) then there are three possible conclusions.

    1: You are amazingly brilliant at FM, with a secret rubber band effect activating in your matches to stop you unrealistically dominating and to keep the game competitive through unfair means. The rest of us aren't as good as you, so do not experience the effect.

    2: It happens to you because of something or things you, but not others, are doing. If you stopped doing these things, you'd stop seeing these patterns.

    3: It happens to everyone, but some of us deliberately lie about it to try and wind you up.

  72. #72
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    I've said it before and I'll say it again...

    There's far more a human player can do in the game, than the AI can.

    The AI in FM isn't as sophisticated as people seem to think it is. It doesn't cheat and it's not as clever as this...



    Meanwhile, the answer to all your problems, indeed EVERYTHING... is of course, 42.
    Last edited by heathxxx; 16-03-2012 at 01:19.

  73. #73
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    I have helped by writing a pretty extensive guide to tactics, available in the Tactics Forum. It's stickied under Tactical Theorems and Frameworks. Plus multiple other threads and advice. It's also worthwhile reading anything by Heath, Cleon or SFraser.

    If you haven't read them, I suggest you do.

    And I haven't implied anything about exact same slider settings. There is a style of play that tends to produce the phenomena you experience. The settings do not have to be exactly matched.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by wwfan View Post
    I have helped by writing a pretty extensive guide to tactics, available in the Tactics Forum. It's stickied under Tactical Theorems and Frameworks. Plus multiple other threads and advice. It's also worthwhile reading anything by Heath, Cleon or SFraser.

    If you haven't read them, I suggest you do.

    And I haven't implied anything about exact same slider settings. There is a style of play that tends to produce the phenomena you experience. The settings do not have to be exactly matched.
    Got to be honest, I've never understood why people are so determined to decide the game is fault/out to get them, rather than actually really looking at their own failing, or encompassing they might be wrong.

    As an aside, I actually think the flaws of the ME create these schools of thought. I look at some of the "super" tactics, (with setting that i know are just not going to work properly, that eventually fail when the AI reacts from your increased rep, and I think, if the ME was more robust, or the AI was better equipped, these approaches would get ripped apart in the first half an hour of a match

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by themadsheep2001 View Post
    Got to be honest, I've never understood why people are so determined to decide the game is fault/out to get them, rather than actually really looking at their own failing, or encompassing they might be wrong.

    As an aside, I actually think the flaws of the ME create these schools of thought. I look at some of the "super" tactics, (with setting that i know are just not going to work properly, that eventually fail when the AI reacts from your increased rep, and I think, if the ME was more robust, or the AI was better equipped, these approaches would get ripped apart in the first half an hour of a match
    That I would agree with. We pretty much conclusively proved that logical decision making in the context of the match massively out-performed all "super-tactics" in the latter days of FML. Unfortunately, it was too late to save it. Of further misfortune is the AI's inability to do so with any degree of sophistication. Which leaves it, in match statistic terms at least, at the mercy of the user.

    Making it sophisticated enough to employ logical and individually tailored strategies that relate to the match context is a huge challenge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wwfan View Post
    That I would agree with. We pretty much conclusively proved that logical decision making in the context of the match massively out-performed all "super-tactics" in the latter days of FML. Unfortunately, it was too late to save it. Of further misfortune is the AI's inability to do so with any degree of sophistication. Which leaves it, in match statistic terms at least, at the mercy of the user.

    Making it sophisticated enough to employ logical and individually tailored strategies that relate to the match context is a huge challenge.
    Where's this proof then, or is that what you funnily enough "forgot" to save? I think people like you forget this is indeed a game that you don't controll like FIFA, this is pretty much a game based on data so if your striker misses an open goal I fail to see how that's the users problem, if my defender does a dodgy backpass and I concede a goal I also fail to see how there is anything I could've or should've done to avoid this, you seem to think everything that happens in the game is completely down to the person playing it.

    Now I'm not expecting you to admit this, but FM is not a perfect game in 100% working order nor is the ME for that matter but I guess if something bad happens it's just the user right? and not the perfect game that replicates real football with deadly accuracy.

    Oh look, my player got a straight red card even though his tackling is on easy, guess that's just me being crap at the game right? I also fail to see how giving instructions causes injuries but again, a player getting injured is OUR fault and not the games, honestly mate, with the defending you do of FM I'm getting the feeling you pretty much made it and funded it entirely on your own, I guess it's also my fault that players who go 40 games without injury suddenly get injured 2 days before a major final right? my keeper has 3 shots against him and conceded 3 goals because it's my fault, you're one of the biggest yet saddest fanboys I have ever seen so keep up the good work.

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    No need for that kind of post kingpug.

    Post with some respect for everyone else please.

    On the subject of your post, FM isn't a perfect game, no-one will ever tell you that it is, the ME is flawed, as is the AI. That doesn't meant that everything that happens is the user's fault, everything that you've mentioned happens in real life too. Players get injured before important competitions after being injury free for ages, keepers concede every shot sometimes. But that doesn't mean that you as a manager can't take some measures to limit some things happening.
    Last edited by ham_aka_stam; 16-03-2012 at 11:45.

  78. #78
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    First league game, 50 yellow cards... way too much! New game on new patch.


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    Waaay.... tooo....many for me... (my team only....half way through season, I've gotten 74 yellows (10ish reds, all through double-yellow). Next highest team is like 47ish. Playing BSN Stafford Rangers in 2013/14 season, and just can't seem to escape a game without picking up 3 or 4 at least.

    For last match of the 2013 calendar year, I was short four starters through their 5th yellow of the season. Add on top of that injuries, I was lucky to field a squad

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