really annoyed......

[Harryohh]

Probably because you build your tactics to attack rather than defend & counter.

No, complete guessing on your part. I usually play 4-4-2 with standard mentality and often set it to counter when I'm in the lead. Sometimes I play a 4-5-1 with nothing really changing.

[Cougar2010]

No, complete guessing on your part. I usually play 4-4-2 with standard mentality and often set it to counter when I'm in the lead. Sometimes I play a 4-5-1 with nothing really changing.

There is more to setting up a specific counter attacking tactic than picking a fairly standard formation and using a "Counter" team mentality.

[Harryohh]

You're the one talking about counter attacking. i'm just saying I don't set attacking tactics.

[milnerpoint]

How exactly do you set your team up, what roles and duties are your players given, especially centre halves, full backs and central mids?

[mumble jumbo]

Hang on, you've already made it clear you havent really watched them, yet your telling me im not watching the games properly? Have a day off.

Having class and dominating a game are two completely different things altogether, and do not need to be tied into each other.

Do you actually watch football?

Do you? I don't care how many times Man U lost to Fulham, or if they lost 50:0, Man U would always have more of the ball. That's all I was trying to say

[milnerpoint]

So you dont watch football then, if you did, you would know what your saying is complete rubbish, and more importantly you would know that having more of the ball doesnt mean you have dominated the game, or have been the better team. Infact without goals it means nothing.

[Ackter]

If Man U lost 50-0 they'd still have more of the ball than Fulham?

Amazing.

[Cleon]

If Man U lost 50-0 they'd still have more of the ball than Fulham?

Amazing.

They would as they'd be picking the ball out of the net

[mumble jumbo]

So you dont watch football then, if you did, you would know what your saying is complete rubbish, and more importantly you would know that having more of the ball doesnt mean you have dominated the game, or have been the better team. Infact without goals it means nothing.

The crap teams beat the good teams through sporadic moments of good play. But the much better team always has more of the ball in the majority of the match

[Ackter]

Yeah, you don't watch football.

What was your previous name on this forum btw?

[milnerpoint]

The crap teams beat the good teams through sporadic moments of good play. But the much better team always has more of the ball in the majority of the match

No they do not!! Where do you get this rubbish from? Go away and watch some football first, then come back to the debate.

[Ackter]

Would just like to post this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/16459110

[milnerpoint]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/16343415

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/16779082

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17071413


Do we need to go on here???

[Kazza]

This is turning into one of the funniest threads I have read in along time. Feed the troll, he certainly seems to be winding up enough people.

I am sure he is doing this deliberately as no one not even himself can believe what he is saying lol.

Ackter and milnerpoint I think you are both doing a grand job in the face of adversity, you have my support

[Ackter]

Most of the big upsets happen at around the 50/50 possession mark, though it usually tips 49% to the weaker side.

Not sure the Chelsea v Man Utd match will prove much though, they're both quite equal.

[mumble jumbo]

Why you posting results? Swansea 3 Arsenal 2? Good performance by Swansea but if you watched the full 90 minutes Arsenal would of had more of the ball

[milnerpoint]

In the context of this season tho you could say they are a stronger team. But your right it is probably the worst example of the 3.

[milnerpoint]

Why you posting results? Swansea 3 Arsenal 2? Good performance by Swansea but if the watched the full 90 minutes Arsenal would of had more of the ball

Clearly reading is also something you need to do before coming back to this debate, look at the stats in each of those games and you will see your wrong.

[Ackter]

Why you posting results? Swansea 3 Arsenal 2? Good performance by Swansea but if the watched the full 90 minutes Arsenal would of had more of the ball

They shared exactly 50% possession of the ball during that match.

[Ackter]

On the reverse side, Man City are the experts at absolutely dominating then messing up. It doesn't happen often, but when it does it's all over the place with them. They've had near 60% possession against some teams and still got done over.

[mumble jumbo]

They shared exactly 50% possession of the ball during that match.

Does that count for the majority of the match though? Fifa 2012 for example, in one of my games I had 60% possession and then it went roughly even by the end of the match and that's how the match stats showed at the end of the game, a roughly even ball possession.

[Ackter]

Ahah, that's fantastic.

That accounts for the entire match. For every section where Arsenal have 60% possession, Swansea must have had the equivalent of an equal spell at 60% possession in order for it to end up at 50%.

[milnerpoint]

Ackter, i think we are both being had here mate, i refuse to believe anything he/she is saying is anything more than trolling us, if its real im giving up on humanity.

[mumble jumbo]

Ahah, that's fantastic.

That accounts for the entire match. For every section where Arsenal have 60% possession, Swansea must have had the equivalent of an equal spell at 60% possession in order for it to end up at 50%.

Are you sure those stats are not just based on how the game ended? Absolutely sure about that?

[Ackter]

I'm bored at work and this is fun. I'm here till 5:30...

[AcidBurn]

This thread is strangely entertaining.

[Ackter]

Are you sure those stats are not just based on how the game ended?

What are you talking about? How the game ended?

You think possession stats are only for a few minutes of games, and that the BBC just pick them randomly for their match reports?

[milnerpoint]

Of course thats how FIFA does it, must be the way the real world works.

[Barside]

Yeah, you don't watch football.

What was your previous name on this forum btw?

I'm not the only one who senses an alias then.

[mumble jumbo]

What are you talking about? How the game ended?

You think possession stats are only for a few minutes of games, and that the BBC just pick them randomly for their match reports?

What I mean is, for example, Arsenal dominating for long periods of the match, and then the other team having a spell of ball possession near the end to even things out.

[Kazza]

I'm not the only one who senses an alias then.

Well you only got to check his profile and style and it appears he has been here before in another guise!!!

I bet he is also 22 years old - I have detected a pattern

[milnerpoint]

I dont think you understand how that stat is calculated, before it could be 50/50 both teams must have had the ball for an equal amount of time, throughout the whole game. No periods of anything, the whole entire match from the first whistle to the last.

[ham_aka_stam]

What I mean is, for example, Arsenal dominating for long periods of the match, and then the other team having a spell of ball possession near the end to even things out.

if the game ends with 50-50 possession, each team spent the same time over the 90+mins with the ball as without it.

I must say this thread has brightened my day somewhat.

[Barside]

What I mean is, for example, Arsenal dominating for long periods of the match, and then the other team having a spell of ball possession near the end to even things out.

So you're saying that one team will dominate for one period of the match & then for another period of the match the other team will dominate which gives a 50:50 possession ratio but the team that dominated the early stages were the more dominate team over the course of the whole match.

My earlier statement about you being short of the full picnic was quite clearly wrong, you're actually missing the full picnic & have no idea where the outdoor feast is taking place.

[Cleon]

Let's not get personal with the comments.

[Barside]

Sorry, should have added a or a .

[mumble jumbo]

So you're saying that one team will dominate for one period of the match & then for another period of the match the other team will dominate which gives a 50:50 possession ratio but the team that dominated the early stages were the more dominate team over the course of the whole match.

My earlier statement about you being short of the full picnic was quite clearly wrong, you're actually missing the full picnic & have no idea where the outdoor feast is taking place.

Precisely. Teams can sit back for periods of the match.

[milnerpoint]

Your completely mental

[mumble jumbo]

Your completely mental

Dude, listen to what I'm saying, you can't throw fulltime ball possession at me in a bid to prove me wrong. Watch the full 90 minutes. Watch that Arsenal game. The reason I'm questioning the possession on the site is because that may not be a true reflection of the entire match, hence why I didn't post links to full time stats.

Also, the Champions league is a little bit different

For example, a team can dominate for the majority of the match and then change their mentality allowing the other team to catch up on the possession stats

[Ackter]

Any more excuses?

I'd like to get them all together so I don't have to keep coming back to them.

[milnerpoint]

Sigh, are we really going to have to spoon feed you on this.
Arsenal cannot have had more possession, the stats were 50/50 for the entire game, come on mate this isnt hard to grasp, it really isnt. Arsenal did NOT have more of the ball in that game, even if it goes against what you claim, they still didnt have the ball for more than half the game.
Your right champions league follows different possession rules clearly Man U had the ball more than Ajax, just the stats tell us the exact opposite.

[Ackter]

If a team dominated possession for the majority of the match, I'm assuming that you mean they had 60% possession for at least 60% of the match?

[mumble jumbo]

Sigh, are we really going to have to spoon feed you on this.
Arsenal cannot have had more possession, the stats were 50/50 for the entire game, come on mate this isnt hard to grasp, it really isnt. Arsenal did NOT have more of the ball in that game, even if it goes against what you claim, they still didnt have the ball for more than half the game.
Your right champions league follows different possession rules clearly Man U had the ball more than Ajax, just the stats tell us the exact opposite.

I never said that Arsenal had 60% posession here. I'm just saying that the much better team always has more of the ball the majority of the time. I don't care if the crap team is able to squeeze some posession back 70 minutes into the game

[Gee_Simpson]

I never said that Arsenal had 60% posession here. I'm just saying that the much better team always has more of the ball the majority of the time. I don't care if the crap team is able to squeeze some posession back 70 minutes into the game

But that is impossible if the possession stats say 50-50. You are clearly at the wind up here.

[mumble jumbo]

But that is impossible if the possession stats say 50-50. You are clearly at the wind up here.

Excuse me but if I'm not mistaken here, a team can edge possession and then the other team can bring it back, provided there is enough time?

[Cleon]

Excuse me but if I'm not mistaken here, a team can edge possession and then the other team can bring it back, provided there is enough time?

If possession was 50/50 then both teams would have had an equal amount of time spent on the ball during the 90 minutes. Regardless of how it was done whether it be at the start, middle or end each team would have had the same.

Anyways you're becoming tiresome and you're only here for the wind up. No doubt this thread will be closed soon now as its morealess run it's course.

[tomtuck01]

I think mumble jumbo should stop embarrassing himself, or trolling, whichever he is doing.

Usually I like to be more constructive than that, but in this instance there is no point.

[mumble jumbo]

If possession was 50/50 then both teams would have had an equal amount of time spent on the ball during the 90 minutes.

Ok..... And a team can't have the overall edge and then allow the other team to bring it back?

[Cleon]

Ok..... And a team can't have the overall edge and then allow the other team to bring it back?

No because both teams would have had equal amount of time on the ball.

[mumble jumbo]

No because both teams would have had equal amount of time on the ball.

Ok, get it, I understand what you all mean, but you're acting as if ball possession can't fluctate during the match, Example, a team can't allow the other team to have more time on the ball after having the edge for long periods of the match

[Ackter]

Ok, so a team dominates possession for the majority of a match. I'm using 60% possession and 70 minutes here (both figures you've mentioned already iirc).

So Arsenal have 60% possession for 70 minutes. That leaves Swansea needing around 80%+ possession for the final 20 minutes in order for the full time stats to end at 50/50.

Though that does raise the question, why exactly did Arsenal allow Swansea 20 minutes of possession when they were losing?

[milnerpoint]

No one on here said that at all, of course possession fluctuates in a game, thats bloody obvious.

[Ackter]

Oh, and to clarify further, here's the scoring times for the match:

05:00 - Arsenal
16:00 - Swansea
57:00 - Swansea
69:00 - Arsenal
70:00 - Swansea

At which point in that match do you reckon Arsenal decided they'd done enough and it was time to let Swansea have the ball?

[mumble jumbo]

You're taking everything I say out of context

I'm not necessary talking about a constant flow of higher ball posession. I'm just saying the much better team has more of the ball for longer periods of the match, and that may even out by fulltime

[Ackter]

Take the Arsenal example I've just posted above and use it to explain what you mean.

[Kain]

Not to make it even more obvious, but Swansea completed almost 100 passes more than Arsenal during that game. Arsenal had something like 60-70% possession in the last 10 minutes too, otherwise the possession would've been more in Swansea's favour than level. Nice of Swansea to let the inferior team level out the statistics at the end of the match.

It's actually quite a good match for FM comparisons, as Swansea only managed 4 shots in the whole match while Arsenal had 18. Just shows the massive difference between attacking tactics where your team rushes your shots and fails to score effectively, while the other waits for an opening and strikes when they find one.

[Ackter]

Oi, stop telling him the next card in my hand before he's revealed his

[mumble jumbo]

Take the Arsenal example I've just posted above and use it to explain what you mean.

What? A team can have 10 minutes more ball posession all game and then the other team can bring that back in the last 20 minutes of the game to about even

I said 'about' even

[Kain]

You weren't really expecting a more detailed answer than you've already had, were you?

[mumble jumbo]

You weren't really expecting a more detailed answer than you've already had, were you?

The reason I'm still here is because you're saying a team could not have edged it with a full time possession of 50/50

A team can edge the game and the other team can bring it back say 10 minutes from time

[Ackter]

This isn't what happened. To quote yourself "watch the match".

Ok, either start making your points properly (ie actually discuss the issue and back up your points and claims, not give vague non-answers) or please just stop posting about it.

I've been quite patient up 'til now to allow you the chance to explain yourself and your points properly, but as you keep refusing to do so I can only take it as trolling.

[mumble jumbo]

This isn't what happened. To quote yourself "watch the match".

Ok, either start making your points properly (ie actually discuss the issue and back up your points and claims, not give vague non-answers) or please just stop posting about it.

I've been quite patient up 'til now to allow you the chance to explain yourself and your points properly, but as you keep refusing to do so I can only take it as trolling.

Dude you were all acting as if a team can't have the edge with a 50/50 fulltime possession, and all I was saying is that the end possession doesn't always reflect the full match. You are the trolls. Fine you knew what I meant

I've watched plenty of football over the years

I've seen plenty of games where teams edge on posession for most of the match and then other team pulls that back, has more of the ball, late on into the game to bring that back by the end of the game

The point is, the much better teams will always see more of the ball

[Cleon]

Enough is enough.