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Thread: not changing season expectations, when you're overachieving...

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    Default not changing season expectations, when you're overachieving...

    hi,
    I just wanted to know, if anyone else has made similiar experiences, that when you for example had "top half finish" as preseason expectations, but finished the first half of the season on top, the board asked you, whether you want to change your expectations, you still remained at "top half finish" that your players more and more got complacent in the league and you rarely brought the performance, you did in the first half.

    kinda have the feeling, that my players feel like "we've don it, we dont need to reach more", as the curious thing is, Im awesome in other competitions like winning the carling cup, semi finals of the fa cup.
    so I thought, it must have something to do with my expectations and players feeling complacent...

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    Interesting point OP. I don't often spend much money so I rarely change but also tend to see a drop in form, particularly in Feb-March time. Maybe that does have something to do with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawrie View Post
    Interesting point OP. I don't often spend much money so I rarely change but also tend to see a drop in form, particularly in Feb-March time. Maybe that does have something to do with it.
    thats what I am thinking about mate. the funny thing is, just for example: carling cup semi finals, at home, I am beating newcastle 3-1, then just a few days later, I fail to win against wolves in the league, then in midweek, I am beating newcastle 5-1 away, a few days later, they once again visit me and in the league, we just draw 0-0, where I miss 4 ccc... I am losing 6-0 against tottenham in the league and beating them 3-0 in carling cup final. so, some might say, its your tactic, AI has found out a way to deal with it, your reputations has grown, teams are playing more cautious and more defensive against you and so on... but its still the same game, I am still creating lots of chances but fail to score, but ironically, in the cup matches, the same players, who miss 4 ccc in one match, starting to score twice, hattricks and so on...

    in my villarreal save, with the same tactic, I finished the league as runners up, with just conceding 23 goals and winning 28 games out of 38. with them, I didnt experience such a drop of the form after the first half of the season, as I had "european competition throug the league" as season expectation. maybe it would be the same, if I had them on "top half finish".

    I am going to star a new save, once again with everton, gonna sign exactly the same players, but this time, when Iam overachieving, which I expect, I will change my season expectations in midseason and gonna post the results

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    For me there are a few possible outcomes to consider;
    1. Do not change expectations, players become complacent & our early success is undone.
    2. Do not change expectations, our form stays on track & I'm lauded by the fans & the board.
    3. Change expectations, impossible to please the board as now they are only pleased/satisfied when one click ago they were delighted.
    I never change my expectations because of #3.

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    I never change expectations and never had complacency issues because of that, i would look first at team talks or press conferences for the source of your complacency, also the personality of the squad is quite important, it's a lot easier to avoid complacency when you have a top professional squad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barside View Post
    For me there are a few possible outcomes to consider;
    1. Do not change expectations, players become complacent & our early success is undone.
    2. Do not change expectations, our form stays on track & I'm lauded by the fans & the board.
    3. Change expectations, impossible to please the board as now they are only pleased/satisfied when one click ago they were delighted.
    I never change my expectations because of #3.
    why should it be impossible to please the board as now? I mean, as Ive written before, youre starting into the season with the expectation of finishing "at the top half". after 19-20 games, youre on top of the league or a few points behind the leaders and now the boar asks you again. so why should it be impossible, if you just change from "top half finish" to "european qualification through the league" for example? your current table situation is more than enough for an european spot, so why not telling your board, fans and players, that you want to keep this place and are not happy about a top half finish anymore? I am really exciting about the results of this experiment. either it was due to the low form of my strikers, or it was because of complacency.

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    I've never really had this problem since i just pick the finish champions options, just seems to make things easier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lufc_white View Post
    I've never really had this problem since i just pick the finish champions options, just seems to make things easier.
    lol, but you cant really start like that, when you play with everton or betis sevilla
    but its logical, that you dont have such a problem

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    Quote Originally Posted by el_magico89 View Post
    why should it be impossible to please the board as now? I mean, as Ive written before, youre starting into the season with the expectation of finishing "at the top half". after 19-20 games, youre on top of the league or a few points behind the leaders and now the boar asks you again. so why should it be impossible, if you just change from "top half finish" to "european qualification through the league" for example? your current table situation is more than enough for an european spot, so why not telling your board, fans and players, that you want to keep this place and are not happy about a top half finish anymore? I am really exciting about the results of this experiment. either it was due to the low form of my strikers, or it was because of complacency.
    The problem is that if you change your expectations the board will immediately change from being delighted with your performance to only being satisfied or pleased.

    IMHO the feedback should change to 'delighted that you're on course to win the league given our modest expectations at the start of the season', if you then slip down the table rather than getting 'disappointed we are only on course for a top half finish' it should be something like 'disappointed that we could not maintain our position after providing additional financial backing'.

    It all in the detail & for me the game does not correctly acknowledge a mid-season change in expectation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barside View Post
    The problem is that if you change your expectations the board will immediately change from being delighted with your performance to only being satisfied or pleased.

    IMHO the feedback should change to 'delighted that you're on course to win the league given our modest expectations at the start of the season', if you then slip down the table rather than getting 'disappointed we are only on course for a top half finish' it should be something like 'disappointed that we could not maintain our position after providing additional financial backing'.

    It all in the detail & for me the game does not correctly acknowledge a mid-season change in expectation.
    Excellent post, I completely agree

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barside View Post
    The problem is that if you change your expectations the board will immediately change from being delighted with your performance to only being satisfied or pleased.

    IMHO the feedback should change to 'delighted that you're on course to win the league given our modest expectations at the start of the season', if you then slip down the table rather than getting 'disappointed we are only on course for a top half finish' it should be something like 'disappointed that we could not maintain our position after providing additional financial backing'.It all in the detail & for me the game does not correctly acknowledge a mid-season change in expectation.
    While I don't actually disagree with what your saying, if you take the boards money and increase the expectations then why would they be happy with underachieving?

    The thing is your changing the seasons expectation and not the half season expectation. It is the same as telling the board at the start of the season you will win the league for example. I don't think that the game distinguishes between the two and I'm in two minds whether it actually should.

    The only reason to increase expectation is to gain more funds IMO and never seen an issue with complacency because of this.

    Anyway, I don't think it would hurt to mention this in messages about board confidence but it would purely be cosmetic I think and wouldn't change the actual leniency of the board to underachieving.

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    Is there a link between your expectations and how the players respond?

    I have never considered that a link was in place. I have always sought to minimize expectations in order to keep the board happy. I have not noticed an increase in complacency amongst my players. We are usually overachieving with regard to my stated season expectations and the media prediction, the players always seem to carry on performing at a high level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darkfng View Post
    Is there a link between your expectations and how the players respond?

    I have never considered that a link was in place. I have always sought to minimize expectations in order to keep the board happy. I have not noticed an increase in complacency amongst my players. We are usually overachieving with regard to my stated season expectations and the media prediction, the players always seem to carry on performing at a high level.
    I think it is possible there is a link, i mean in real life there would be so why not in the game. Imagen your team is thinking "we are only expected mid table" so they come up against a big club (united,city,barca) and think were not expected to finish top we can relax a bit. But same situation where the players know there expected to finish in the top 4, then they know that every point counts so will try harder to make sure they get the win.
    I think seeing the results of the experiment will be interesting, and really a view point I had never though of before.

    On a side note, i tend not to change the expectations "just in case" as the board say your meant to finish in a certain position and if you have gone all out in first half then collapse in second due to tiredness, atleast your still in a job.
    Last edited by ljwjones; 21-02-2012 at 10:49.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marty78 View Post
    While I don't actually disagree with what your saying, if you take the boards money and increase the expectations then why would they be happy with underachieving?

    The thing is your changing the seasons expectation and not the half season expectation. It is the same as telling the board at the start of the season you will win the league for example. I don't think that the game distinguishes between the two and I'm in two minds whether it actually should.

    The only reason to increase expectation is to gain more funds IMO and never seen an issue with complacency because of this.

    Anyway, I don't think it would hurt to mention this in messages about board confidence but it would purely be cosmetic I think and wouldn't change the actual leniency of the board to underachieving.
    I think it should change how the board deal with your requests in the future, in some instances a failure to achieve the adjusted goals should result in you losing your job but if you keep your job the board should be less inclined to offer you additional funds in the near future or agree to one of the many requests you can make in the board interaction section.

    In essence not meeting your adjusted expectations should have more ramifications than simply being at greater risk of getting the boot & at the moment that seems to be the only risk that you have to consider when considering a mid-season change to club expectations.

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