How to develop this prospect?

[Robsy1990]

(Apologies if this in in the wrong forum, wasn't too sure where was best for it)

I've just had my annual youth intake, and this is the only lad I got through who looks like he will make something of himself:





He is listed as a Model Professional, so have no idea if I should tutor him or not. I have Lorik Cana in my squad and he has beastly mental stats and is listed as a Born Leader, so it is worth having him tutor this guy?

Also I normally go for centre-backs with good defending and aerial attributtes, at the expense of good speed ones. Burdett is very quick for a CB but also terrible in the air, so I'm wondering if I can improve his heading to at least a decent ability? And if so how do I go about this? If I can't improve it I'm considering training him into a defensive midfielder - would this be a good option? Thanks.

[Cougar2010]

I wouldn't tutor him as he is already a model professional.

He is also far from rubbish in the air, 6'1" tall with 17 jumping he just doesn't direct his headers very well. He is only 16 though so as long as he has potential he'll improve.

TBH if he does have potential I doubt you'll be able to keep him as big clubs will be sniffing round him soon enough.

[Robsy1990]

I wouldn't tutor him as he is already a model professional.

He is also far from rubbish in the air, 6'1" tall with 17 jumping he just doesn't direct his headers very well. He is only 16 though so as long as he has potential he'll improve.

TBH if he does have potential I doubt you'll be able to keep him as big clubs will be sniffing round him soon enough.

Really? I was leaning more towards tutoring him, Cana has the following mental stats:

Determination 20
Influence 20
Teamwork 17

They are the ones I would think are important when tutoring, would the personality change that much? Would Burdett's personality change negatively if he was tutored by a Born Leader?

I will keep him, I never sell my prospects and I am establishing myself a big club. So no worries there

[Cougar2010]

Really? I was leaning more towards tutoring him, Cana has the following mental stats:

Determination 20
Influence 20
Teamwork 17

They are the ones I would think are important when tutoring, would the personality change that much? Would Burdett's personality change negatively if he was tutored by a Born Leader?

I will keep him, I never sell my prospects and I am establishing myself a big club. So no worries there

Tutoring doesn't have an affect on influence or teamwork.

As for personalities "Model Professional" means high levels (17+) of Determination, Ambition, Loyalty, Pressure, Professionalism, Temperament & Sportsmanship while "Born Leader" just means 20 for influence & determination.

As "Born Leader" tells you nothing about a player's ambition, loyalty, pressure, professionalism, temperament or sportsmanship you could easily make them worse by tutoring him.

[Robsy1990]

Tutoring doesn't have an affect on influence or teamwork.

As for personalities "Model Professional" means high levels (17+) of Determination, Ambition, Loyalty, Pressure, Professionalism, Temperament & Sportsmanship while "Born Leader" just means 20 for influence & determination.

As "Born Leader" tells you nothing about a player's ambition, loyalty, pressure, professionalism, temperament or sportsmanship you could easily make them worse by tutoring him.

Ah, I never realised that, thanks. So if I just let him develop naturally and don't tutor him, his Determination and those hidden attributes you mentioned will increase naturally?

[steve-0271]

only tutor him if you its someone else thats professional etc...
also get some high intensive training done on his Head, First touch and Passing.

[poola21]

Model Professional: Professionalism = 20 & Temperament > 9.
Born Leader: Determination & Influence = 20

you can influence his determination and maybe other mental stats, but I think it will be a step back
what should you do is search for a model professional with 20 determination and have him tutored by that guy, if he succeeds then the youngster will be listed as a model professional with 20 determination and you won't need tutoring

your player looks like a limited defender (role), but try to improve his heading(intensive ball control maybe?), if you get it over 15 it will be good

[Cougar2010]

Model Professional: Professionalism = 20 & Temperament > 9.
Born Leader: Determination & Influence = 20

you can influence his determination and maybe other mental stats, but I think it will be a step back
what should you do is search for a model professional with 20 determination and have him tutored by that guy, if he succeeds then the youngster will be listed as a model professional with 20 determination and you won't need tutoring

your player looks like a limited defender (role), but try to improve his heading(intensive ball control maybe?), if you get it over 15 it will be good

Apologies Robsy, Poola is right I was looking at the wrong line

Model Professional is what he has listed above, the list I quoted is for a "Model Citizen"

Yes so you risk lowering his professionalism and making his temperament worse unless you can identify more about your "Born Leader"

[BiggusD]

He is magnificent in the air, not terrible. Since he is only 16 years old, those physical attributes will improve a lot, so he will likely have from 17 to 20 in all of them by the time he has reached his potential - if he is supposed to become a good or leading PL player in the future, that is. It is rare that youngsters starting out like that don't have a lot to go on, though. Everything is in place for him to have 20 Tackling, 15+ Marking, Decisions and Positioning, and 13+ Anticipation, Composure, Concentration. If he does manage to improve that much, he will certainly be world class. He should already be good enough to play in The Championship, at least on rotation, by the looks of him right now.

As has been said above, there is no point tutoring Model Professionals or Perfectionists. I also think twice about tutoring Resilient, Resolute, Driven and Fairly Professional players.

[Coentrao]

What i usually do with youngsters is to focus on their physical and technical development until they are 21 and then start focusing on mental attributes(since these seem to improve faster at a old age, but you can always use the individual focus on some of them).

He is already impressive physically except for his strength, so i would probably make a schedule with a lot of strength training,ball control to improve his first touch and heading while also using the individual focus on his heading.

Looks like he will be a great stopper centre back.

[poola21]

what's his PA?

[The Hand of God]

You would be crazy to tutor this player, IMO. "Professionalism" is one of the major attributes determining the speed of development, so unless he has very low ambition, he should be a wonderkid in a few years. Tutoring may just slow down his development.

However, if he doesn't develop much on his own over the next two years, you should tutor as there may be some other issue at work (again, low ambition)... but again, leave him alone until you know for sure.

[HakanMild]

He seems like an excellent prospect. I actually prefer jumping over heading (both are great but if I had to choose). Jumping to me represents getting to the ball first, while heading represents the accuracy. For me it's more important for them to get a head on it first, although with poor accuracy there can be mistakes made. So just focus on heading specific training.

His anticipation and bravery aren't the best for a defender but he is world class in other areas. If you're able to create specific training regiment, maybe set him on a schedule with more focus on the mental portion. And what is his potential in terms of leading championship/premiership player?

For his personality - I agree with the rest. If you get a professional players it's better to leave it as is rather than risk it with tutoring. Professional means they will have a higher chance of reaching their potential and maintaining it.

[hhhonlyfan1984]

robsy how is your basingstoke game going? im currently playing llm game with them in 2018/2019 season so must be somewhere close. ive had a great takeover been premier league champs twice already and won everything possible. just wondered how your takeover if you had one went.

this guy isnt a bad prospect but for me because of the vast riches (well i havent got a sugardaddy as such but will let me spend when i have in the black) i have 3 wonderkids going through. i would tutor him play some games on cameos in the cup etc

[Robsy1990]

poola/Hakan - his description in the coach report was 'potential to be a leading Premier League player. I've just checked on Genie Scout and his CA is 99 and PA 184 - I think that's good? (Not overly sure how it all works). The hidden stats are as follows:

Adaptability 10
Ambition 19
Controversy 10
Loyalty 10
Pressure 10
Professionalism 20
Sportsmanship 10
Temperament 10

I guess that means tutoring is pretty much a non-starter? Asking a bit much but could anyone recommend me a how to make a good training schedule for him? I've made one but I'm still unsure as different people are recommending different areas to focus on and I don't want to hinder his development. Think of him as a player that the forum community helps develop, I can post up an image of him when he's world class and we can all feel good about ourselves

hhhonlyfan1984, it's going well mate. Had a blistering first couple of years, destroying everyone in my wake. Won the FA Cup whilst still in League Two, which is the highlight of any FM game I've ever had. Made the Premier League in consecutive seasons, but now the success has slowed slightly - I've qualified for the Champions League and am currently in the 2nd Knockout Round after a thrilling 4-3 win over Inter on aggregate, and I'm going well in the League, but have no chance of winning it as Arsenal and especially Liverpool are just too good. Going to have to wait a few years to properly challenge I think. I had a local businessman takeover two weeks after I began the save, for 2/3 years he was awful and refused to improve anything, then I hit the Leagues and slowly but surely he has improved the facilities. New stadium should be complete at the end of this season (2018/19), though it's only a 16440 seater which I'm disappointed with as I seem to be establishing myself as a regular European challenger. So yeh, going well, but I think a couple of years of building a world-class team are on the cards before I can challenge Arsenal and Liverpool. Glad you went as them as they're my hometown team!

[BiggusD]

poola/Hakan - his description in the coach report was 'potential to be a leading Premier League player. I've just checked on Genie Scout and his CA is 99 and PA 184 - I think that's good? (Not overly sure how it all works). The hidden stats are as follows:

Adaptability 10
Ambition 19
Controversy 10
Loyalty 10
Pressure 10
Professionalism 20
Sportsmanship 10
Temperament 10

I guess that means tutoring is pretty much a non-starter? Asking a bit much but could anyone recommend me a how to make a good training schedule for him? I've made one but I'm still unsure as different people are recommending different areas to focus on and I don't want to hinder his development. Think of him as a player that the forum community helps develop, I can post up an image of him when he's world class and we can all feel good about ourselves

hhhonlyfan1984, it's going well mate. Had a blistering first couple of years, destroying everyone in my wake. Won the FA Cup whilst still in League Two, which is the highlight of any FM game I've ever had. Made the Premier League in consecutive seasons, but now the success has slowed slightly - I've qualified for the Champions League and am currently in the 2nd Knockout Round after a thrilling 4-3 win over Inter on aggregate, and I'm going well in the League, but have no chance of winning it as Arsenal and especially Liverpool are just too good. Going to have to wait a few years to properly challenge I think. I had a local businessman takeover two weeks after I began the save, for 2/3 years he was awful and refused to improve anything, then I hit the Leagues and slowly but surely he has improved the facilities. New stadium should be complete at the end of this season (2018/19), though it's only a 16440 seater which I'm disappointed with as I seem to be establishing myself as a regular European challenger. So yeh, going well, but I think a couple of years of building a world-class team are on the cards before I can challenge Arsenal and Liverpool. Glad you went as them as they're my hometown team!

85 CA is a lot to gain, but with Ambition 19 and Professionalism 20 I think this is one of the cases where it might be achievable.

I wouldn't focus too much on Strength, as that is an attribute youngsters improve naturally. He should double his current number on a standard defender training. Tactics on high or even intensive is a must, though, as is Defending.

[hhhonlyfan1984]

hhhonlyfan1984, it's going well mate. Had a blistering first couple of years, destroying everyone in my wake. Won the FA Cup whilst still in League Two, which is the highlight of any FM game I've ever had. Made the Premier League in consecutive seasons, but now the success has slowed slightly - I've qualified for the Champions League and am currently in the 2nd Knockout Round after a thrilling 4-3 win over Inter on aggregate, and I'm going well in the League, but have no chance of winning it as Arsenal and especially Liverpool are just too good. Going to have to wait a few years to properly challenge I think. I had a local businessman takeover two weeks after I began the save, for 2/3 years he was awful and refused to improve anything, then I hit the Leagues and slowly but surely he has improved the facilities. New stadium should be complete at the end of this season (2018/19), though it's only a 16440 seater which I'm disappointed with as I seem to be establishing myself as a regular European challenger. So yeh, going well, but I think a couple of years of building a world-class team are on the cards before I can challenge Arsenal and Liverpool. Glad you went as them as they're my hometown team!

my stadium was 17560 when i got mine but again its been improved twice now to 32140 which according to fmrte is the maximum capacity for expansion although im hoping maybe ill get a new stadium sometime soon as this is the first season where its been expanded to that and yet to play a home match to see if i get a sellout.

just had another glance and the guy i have is 75 years old so god knows whats going to go on when he retires off now. hes started reigning in the purse strings now last season and season before i had 25m to spend this season i have been given just 6 million but with 3 wonderkids and a good squad depth and class im happy.

every season i have only to secure the title on the 37th or even last day of the season. seems for me i have arsenal, spurs and stoke (who have been taken over by a sugardaddy) challenging. stoke have twice tried to poach my wonderkids and refused 30million plus offers for them. man city usually 4 or 5th utd struggling at 3rd at best 9th last season

[whilewolf]

Don't retrain him as a DM he has way more deficiencies at DM then he does at CM. Id put a lot of training into Strength until his up to about 12 then start focussing on his heading. Once he gets to about twenty two id drop strength training to a maintenance program and try increasing his heading and positioning.
I'm not that happy with 10 for bravery and aggression but I'm not sure what you can do about those?

[Robsy1990]

Just an update on how Burdett is getting on:



Overall, I think he's doing well. Still haven't got his Heading up as much as I would've liked despite heavy training focus, and some of his technical stats have dropped (such as passing, which I still quite like a CB to have), but his physical progression has been immense. His strength has really shot up which is pleasing. I'm unsure when to edit his schedule though - should I keep him on the physical-heavy one or change to focus on his technical attributtes?

[kingjericho]

You should focus on the mental attributes, especially aggression and/or bravery. A good CB needs at least one of these two attributes to be high.

[paganizer]

I certainly wouldn't mind having him in my squad!

[Robsy1990]

You should focus on the mental attributes, especially aggression and/or bravery. A good CB needs at least one of these two attributes to be high.

In training terms, what sliders impact these attributtes? Tutoring is out of the question as he has a Model Pro personality and don't want to risk losing that.

[Rikulec]

Tactical training is what he needs, you shouldn't focus on his physicals as they're already good.

[hhhonlyfan1984]

robsy nice to see him coming along just got another takeover on my basingstoke team. now moving into 60000 arena named after myself but i got a sugardaddy so now its feeling boring this save.

[hhhonlyfan1984]

how he coming along for you now robsy?

[Robsy1990]

Here he is, the man - the legend - that is world class centre-back Ryan Burdett. Developed beautifully if I may say so myself, probably the best defender I've ever had on FM:







If his mental stats develop as planned, I think he will be the complete defender.

[Nocuous]

Why did you let his passing deteriorate so much? His pass competion rate is woeful, and a player of his ability should have at least 10 for passing.

[BiggusD]

Why did you let his passing deteriorate so much? His pass competion rate is woeful, and a player of his ability should have at least 10 for passing.

He has probably set Attacking and Shooting training to zero or close to zero. I am of the opinion that the CA points gained from losing non-essential attributes is negligible, so I always set them to the minimum training level (3rd click iirc). The 1st and 2nd clicks are useless since they don't actually train in that category then.

[Cougar2010]

Why did you let his passing deteriorate so much? His pass competion rate is woeful, and a player of his ability should have at least 10 for passing.

Whilst I agree his passing attribute is woeful his pass completion perhaps isn't.

As a DC if there is no easy pass he will be booting a lot of balls upfield and his passing % will suffer as a result.

[Robsy1990]

Why did you let his passing deteriorate so much? His pass competion rate is woeful, and a player of his ability should have at least 10 for passing.

His passing has only lost 2 points, hardly 'deteriorated'. Could be better I admit but I play him as a Limited Defender with the covering instruction so it's not really needed. I would like his passing to be better, but not at the cost of aerial, defensive or physical stats.

He has probably set Attacking and Shooting training to zero or close to zero. I am of the opinion that the CA points gained from losing non-essential attributes is negligible, so I always set them to the minimum training level (3rd click iirc). The 1st and 2nd clicks are useless since they don't actually train in that category then.

This was exactly correct, though I edited his schedule 3 months ago to boost his attacking training and lower his strength and aerobic.

[daylight]

I must admit a passing of 4 for a CB is pretty poor,he looks a really good choice but I would prefer my CB's to be a touch better in passing.
Also at a loss why you would lower his strength and aerobic too boost his attacking?

To each their own

[Robsy1990]

I must admit a passing of 4 for a CB is pretty poor,he looks a really good choice but I would prefer my CB's to be a touch better in passing.
Also at a loss why you would lower his strength and aerobic too boost his attacking?

To each their own

His physical stats are immense as they are, I lowered his strength & aerobic training to a steady level (low/medium), as before they were on intense. He's hit 21 as well now so he won't develop as fast as far as physical attributes are concerned. I've boosted his attacking and ball control to try and up his passing and first touch.

To be honest I'm pretty happy with how he is now, if his concentration, composure, anticipation, bravery and/or aggression improve a little he would have turned out exactly as I envisaged. People talk about his passing being extremely low, but there isn't an area other than corners where I'd want him to lose anything. No player is perfect, but imo he comes pretty damn close.

[daylight]

Passing for a defender is quite important,why would you not want your CB too pick out passes that split the others teams defence in half or released your winger to play in that killer cross?

Like I said he is a good choice but I would prefer my CB to have a better passing rating.

[Robsy1990]

Passing for a defender is quite important,why would you not want your CB too pick out passes that split the others teams defence in half or released your winger to play in that killer cross?

Like I said he is a good choice but I would prefer my CB to have a better passing rating.

Well, I guess this is relative to your tactic. I play a 4-3-1-2 with no wingers, and three central midfielders. Burdett plays on the right side of the CB pairing, with my right back being very attack minded (the left-back isn't attack-minded). As I said previously, he is a covering defender, so most of his work is covering the RB when he is out of position. I don't want to him try anything fancy (definitely no defence-splitting pass attempts) , so just have him pump the ball forward, which would explain his poor pass completion.

The three CMs have different roles - the left-sided one attacks, the centre one dictates play from deep (and also drops back into defence when the right-back gets forward), and the right-sided tends to stay central - this a conscious decision to allow a balance across the width of the pitch. They do most of the creative work, the CBs are essentially just fast, aerially-dominant lumps that pump the ball forward and prevent any danger. One of my midfield trio will usually retrieve the ball after one of these said 'pumps' and begin working the ball along the ground again.

I understand that if you want ball-playing defenders, then Burdett probably wouldn't be a lot of good. But he covers my attacking right-back excellently, with 99% of headers and reads the game well so I'm happy with him. The only two serious mistakes he's made to allow a goal to be conceded were both consequences of his poor first touch, so I'm more concerned about that than his passing.

[Rikulec]

A 4 in passing can lead to putting the opposition striker in a goalscoring opportunity while passing the ball around, so I'd definitely work on it as his defensive and physical stats are already top class.

[Nocuous]

Assuming he's developed to his peak and his CA equals his PA at 184, it's pretty ridiculous for his passing to only be at 4. It's silly to have a player who is so good at defending, yet when they do win the ball back for you, there's a good chance they'll just give it back straight away with a poor pass.

Whilst I agree his passing attribute is woeful his pass completion perhaps isn't.

As a DC if there is no easy pass he will be booting a lot of balls upfield and his passing % will suffer as a result.

I don't know about you, but if I'm managing a good team, I expect my central defenders to have at least a 75% pass rate at minimum. And I don't even play a short passing game, there's plenty of punts in there too.

[Missioner]

The creativity/vision at 4 is a little lacking too, surely? What passing options would you lose at this level with such a low value, even for a defender?

At the end of the day though, this guy has a good performance rating. What are his mistakes/mistakes led to goals tally?

[CityAndColour]

Meh, the guy is clearly a Vidic/Terry type of defender. Great average ratings for a defender that age in the Prem too, and already 22 caps. He's only 21, you could work on his passing now and have that up around 7-8 by the time he is 24. Not sure what the fuss is about really.

[BiggusD]

Meh, the guy is clearly a Vidic/Terry type of defender. Great average ratings for a defender that age in the Prem too, and already 22 caps. He's only 21, you could work on his passing now and have that up around 7-8 by the time he is 24. Not sure what the fuss is about really.

The PPM "plays short simple passes" could help too, since his Decisions is 17 he would know when to boot it anyway. I'd put Attacking (creativity and passing) up there with the rest for a few years.