I think that the game has become too complex for me

For me FM 2012 is the MOST frustrating game I have ever played. I tried to make my own tactics but by the time I found a decentish formula the new patch would come along and render it useless again. I just dont get the teamtalk stuff, I apparently get some players "motivated" or "fired up" but they then go on to produce either a shocking display or a mediocre performance. I have conceded farcicial own goals and everything that happens to my team in the game just seems completely random.It doesnt feel like anything I do has much effect or for that matter makes much sense.

My team suddenly play really well against Villareal winning 2-1 at home but all of a sudden I go to Rangers and am 3-0 down at HT. It probably does have something to do with the fact that Im not very good at the game but I just dont understand where I go wrong.

People talk about the game being too easy but I havent got a clue- its easily the most frustrating and annoying game I have ever played. I make the most basic tactical systems that people say work well and I think are good in theory but regardless of that I just dont get much success. Teamtalks I sometimes leave to my Assistant who has high motivational skills but it doesnt seem to matter a great deal. Even when things are going well something bad always happens- the most ridiculous sending offs I have seen have been when we lead with 10 minutes to go and my winger with low aggression puts in a 2 footed lunge.

I know it sounds like a rant but Im feeling less and less motivated to play the game because it just seems like I dont really understand it.

Trial and error. Learn from your mistakes. It's a game after all and there will be some logic in there somewhere.

Just keep signing the best players you can, youngsters with potential if you don't have much money, and give it time . Give your tactic time too (years perhaps). Watch some of the games all the way through (you can see problems better, eg.close down/mark someone you think your players are giving too much space) and use analysis to see what you (think) the problem is. Don't do too many tweaks at a time.

I think you need to think about it this way. In most games, there is a way to 'beat' it. Mash button A, C, move right, mash button B, A twice, move down, C, win. Repeat.

That's not the case in sports management simulations. You can't control everything. And that's why even if you're playing the game really well, you should expect that sometimes you will lose. Football Manager used to have 'exploits' - things the player could do, 'super tactics', and the like, to make it very easy to win a lot more games than you would otherwise expect to do. That's not really the case anymore. You will lose, and you will lose where you're expected to win. Sometimes it's your own fault for having a problem and not adjusting to it, but sometimes you're just unlucky. You won't be able to control it all. How you react to those situations is a large part of the challenge in FM, just as it is for real life managers.

This is the way a good sports sim should be. But it's not for everybody, some people need to be in total control of the game, and that doesn't happen in FM any more than it does in real football.

I take both of your points- Im not trying to come across as bitter or anything it just perplexes me a bit when all these people complain that FM is too easy and they are on 90 game plus winning streaks etc when poor old me can't get to grips with even the best clubs on the game.

My tip: pick a default formation. Don't change it until you know your team well. Even then don't change anything too drastically. Give it time. Be patient.

My tip: pick a default formation. Don't change it until you know your team well. Even then don't change anything too drastically. Give it time. Be patient.

I think Im going to start at the very bottom of the league pyramid- that way even if I suffer bad defeats etc I can use it as a learning experience

Trial and error. Learn from your mistakes. It's a game after all and there will be some logic in there somewhere.

Just keep signing the best players you can, youngsters with potential if you don't have much money, and give it time . Give your tactic time too (years perhaps). Watch some of the games all the way through (you can see problems better, eg.close down/mark someone you think your players are giving too much space) and use analysis to see what you (think) the problem is. Don't do too many tweaks at a time.

I slightly disagree with the highlighted part or maybe a better description would be I want to refine it.

Just because a player has good attributes doesn't automatically make him a good player or suitable for your team. Look at his strengths, weaknesses, personality, does he fit into your squad mentality, is he consistent, is he injury prone etc etc.

I've frequently passed on a 3* + player because I wasn't happy with something other than his attributes. Look to build a squad of determined, professional, consistent players and they'll work harder, react better to your teamtalks and generally will perform better on the field over time.

On a sidenote teamtalks are far easier when you have a squad of players who have a similar personalities, having a mixed squad invariably means someone won't react positively.

The only thing i find truly complicate about FM12 is the team talks. Seems like a lottery to be honest, and I never really know what or why im saying something.

Some encouraging perspective for you, S2008: FM is a journey, not a destination. I've been playing for years and there are yet some aspects of it that baffle me. The game is designed to keep some features shrouded in mystery; that is FM's appeal. There is no magic formula to the game and I don't want one. I don't want FM to be Call of Duty where you get killed sixteen times in a row until you learn the perfect sequence: "enter room, look left, fire twice, toss grenade to right, done, move on". Because then the challenge is gone. FM is a game of patience and of trial and error. The key is to focus on a career, not a season and certainly not a single game. If you're struggling, the approach to take is to squeeze out percentages. Bring in a new left winger to replace the worst guy on the starting eleven. Move a striker to a better position on attacking corners. Over a period of time, you'll see better results. Just as in real football, either team can win any given game. But, over the long haul of a season or a decade, quality will prevail.

Good advice from the Axman!

Look at the other team, find out their weakness, are they playing a weak left side, weak right side or middle? Are they missing their best strikers or CBs?

If they are weak on the left I push down my right to put the weak player under more pressure, no point attacking down a strong side. If they have a wonderwinger play a defensive winger to counter that and attack elsewhere.

I also agree with the above, try and keep consistency in key areas like CBs and CMs

I also rotate strikers and keepers (where possible) to make sure they know they have to perform.

My main mantra is "play the game infront of you", dont complain about minor things in the patch like too many missed CCCs or weird behaving CBS. Play the game SI have made and try and beat it!

I don't know how many patches have come out. But I haven't altered my tactics from Day 1.

Whether managing the depths of Brazil leagues, or the depths of Italy or managing a top tier team like Arsenal, or Barcelona.

I haven't changed my tactics once.

If anything the game is too easy.

Sort players by coach recommendation of potential.

Sell all players under 3 stars.

Scout players of 3.5 stars and over.

Sign whichever ones you can after scouting them thoroughly and the ones with the most stars.

Repeat each transfer window.

Best team in the world in about 4 transfer windows.

I wouldnt worry if your finding it hard. It can take a while to workit out, but sooner or later you will have your own playing style, with a good group of players that works. Im one of those players (like eugene) where i set 1 tactic, try and buy all the best players and im done. But it took me awhile to find it, and my tactic changes from team to team. In my current career started off with a 4-2-4 at newcastle, now playing a 4-1-3-2 at Ajax. And yeah sometimes the best looking players can be a bit pants. At Ajax signed some 4* CM for £19m. He played nearly every game didnt score and got about 6 assists. So i sold him for £24M and replaced him with a CM who scores 10 a season. If things arent working sell a few players and mix it up. In fact try managing in Holland, every team is beatable there.

I don't know how many patches have come out. But I haven't altered my tactics from Day 1.

Whether managing the depths of Brazil leagues, or the depths of Italy or managing a top tier team like Arsenal, or Barcelona.

I haven't changed my tactics once.

If anything the game is too easy.

Sort players by coach recommendation of potential.

Sell all players under 3 stars.

Scout players of 3.5 stars and over.

Sign whichever ones you can after scouting them thoroughly and the ones with the most stars.

Repeat each transfer window.

Best team in the world in about 4 transfer windows.

I did exactly that, Hyde was still middle of BSP come end of 2nd season..

Yet another thread on the growing complexity of the game and the original poster is entirely right. For people with lots of time this level of micromanagement is not an issue and no doubt "its your tactics" but for people who have busy lives, who have jobs etc. each iteration of Football Manager is simply becoming too much.

For SI to cater for everyone they can either create two seperate games or have one game and allow the user to turn off and on various features - or have pre-set levels. i.e.

old school - game as you remember it (basically like FM Handheld

FM Years - level of immersion from the 2007/2008 era

Full on - The complete experience.

Agree with Steve. More stuff != more fun. Newest features didn't push the game forward, but it's step sideward. At this point, the game is so complex, that it's necessary to add some kind of difficulty or complexity settings.

I would not say too complex, but the series has lost its way.

I have gone back to FM11 and that is where I will stay because if 2013 and so on is following the 2012 path the game is in big trouble..

FM12 feels more like a spreadsheet then ever before. Basically, look at this number and these numbers and try to get my numbers better.... Getting told that my defence is 13.1 in jumping and that makes it the 5th best defense in the league is not how a manager would get the information.....This does not feel like managing. Keep clicking team talks until you work out the set that works in game....that is not managing.

Really, it is time to have a look at where the game is going... realistic, okay it never really was, but 100% not now....Start to make the game intuitive and not focused on numbers. Sure the numbers will always drive the system, but give the players star ratings, make the talks and morale adapt to players as they adapt....and really work on making A1 teams react realistically in the transfer market.

Yet another thread on the growing complexity of the game and the original poster is entirely right. For people with lots of time this level of micromanagement is not an issue and no doubt "its your tactics" but for people who have busy lives, who have jobs etc. each iteration of Football Manager is simply becoming too much.

This is exactly how I view FM at the moment. I have been playing my favourite version (07) for a long time now, and only because of crash dumps 40 seasons in (twice), have I moved onto FM08, which I am currently playing. FM12 is actually the first edition ever since the good old CM1 days that I have not purchased, and as the micromanagement only increases every year, I highly doubt that I will be buying it anytime soon. I only play it to buy/sell players, set up my tactics and race through the seasons. FMH, however, might be worth looking into.

I love FM12, if you dont like the level of micromanagement set your assistant to do things for you. I work 6 days a week so barely have time for FM as the girlfriend lets me nowhere near it when she is round. If you set things up right its still very enjoyable, I dont fly through seasons but it takes me about a week maybe two to finish a season.

Well Done SI