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Thread: Poacher and Target Man Combination?

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    Default Poacher and Target Man Combination?

    Would it be an effictive strategty to play a poacher alongside a target man. My concern is that both players will be too far up the pitch without any real link through the centre between midfield and attack.

    What are your thoughts on this combination?

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    Its a good strategy IMO, I am using it when managing the England Squad with Connor Wickham as the TM and a regened Striker as the poacher. works well for me

    If you are worried about both attackers being too high up the pitch, then consider setting your Target Man in a Support role rather than an Attack role.

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    I usually play this way in lower leagues where strikers are likely to be good in the air but lousy at passing.

    As Lawteo said, in a supporting role.

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    1) Yes you need Target/support man. It's difficult to have two attacking in attack mode. Best it's one support and one attack. Don't forget to select your Target man in the team tactic menu and choose the way to pass to him : to head or feet or space depending of the attributes qualities of your Target man and match situation.

    2) A good thing also, it's to add a playmaker support in midfield to create a triangle between those 3 guys. Players will pass to Target back to the goal, Target man pass to playmaker who try to put a through ball to Poacher.

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    Thanks for the feedback!

    My target man is a giant and the obvious pass option would be "to head". Are there any downfalls to this and should I consider any of the other options?

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    you can look at classic attributes like head, jumping, anticipation, balance for good execution of the head pass. But also strength and bravery for air fighting with opponent.
    Think also that its team-mates must be not to far to receive his pass/deflection and must be good also in anticipation and off the ball.

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    Also, just make sure your poacher has good 'Finishing', 'Pace/Acceleration' and good 'Off the Ball'

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    Do you think that a "mixed" variety of passing would be a better option?

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    I use this combo on my liverpool save for my back-up team, the team that mostly gets cup and easy league games.

    Andy carroll TM/S and Bojan P/A, works an absolute treat. With james rodriguez on the left as an AP/S and Henderson on the right W/S, probably the most effective back-up squad I have evr had!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamboSteven View Post
    Do you think that a "mixed" variety of passing would be a better option?
    Who are you using as your Target Man?

    If he's the Big Burly Kinda striker you mentioned with excellent Heading and Jumping with low Technique etc etc then I would suggest selecting just 'Pass to Head'

    In my England Team, Connor Wickham is kinda big, but he does has some good skills plus his jumping is only 13 so I select 'Mixed' instead.

    Hope this helps

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    Mixed is a good option if

    1) others players can make good decision to know how to pass. So check at least decision attributes
    2) your Target man need to be "complete" as option is mixed so ball can arrive on his head but also in his feet(so good first touch etc.) or in space (so need pace, acceleration, off the ball, anticipation etc.)

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    My Target Man is a regen but yes he is the big guy I was talking about. He has good attributes all round though. I'm currently at work at the moment so I can't post a screenshot of him just now but I will do when I get home.

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    I have never really had any success with the "Mixed" option, I tend to use "to head" or "run on to ball". Edinson Cavani is a beast as Target Man, run onto ball!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuncanJM View Post
    I have never really had any success with the "Mixed" option, I tend to use "to head" or "run on to ball". Edinson Cavani is a beast as Target Man, run onto ball!
    I know this might sounds funny, but I use 'Target Man with Run to Ball option when my Target Man is actually a Lightning Fast Poacher".

    Used that with a regen in FM09 and i recalled him scoring 70+ goals in a single season

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuncanJM View Post
    I have never really had any success with the "Mixed" option, I tend to use "to head" or "run on to ball". Edinson Cavani is a beast as Target Man, run onto ball!
    Yeah, true, I would prefer a "Target Man with Pass to Head' + a Poacher.

    Things are better when they are simpler IMO

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    The problem with the Poacher/Target Man combo is that both strikers will then lack the ability to create chances for each other, leaving that up to the rest of the team.

    Granted, a creative target man would fix that problem, but those are rare and expensive. A fast, creative striker would function well as a poacher, but the TC role would waste his talents.

    A typical poacher and a typical target man requires the midfield to be creative, good passers. Finding that kind is not difficult, but the defensive balance of the whole tactic could be missing unless you find creative passers with good physique, team work and work rate. But those are rare too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BiggusD View Post
    The problem with the Poacher/Target Man combo is that both strikers will then lack the ability to create chances for each other, leaving that up to the rest of the team..
    As mentioned by Jim Morrow in an earlier post here, I think I solve this problem by playing a very Creative Advance Playmaker (Jack Wilshere) in my England Team in the Central Midfield Position. Therefore, in my Team instructions, I have Wilshere selected as Play Maker and Connor Wickham as Targetman.

    My logic is, players would pass the ball to Wilshere for him to make things happen, Wilshere would then pass the ball to Wickham cos he's the Target Man and he would then flick/pass balls to my regen poacher to slot the ball home.


    Now, if things are only that simple in real like as in theory right?

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    The problem with the Poacher/Target Man combo is that both strikers will then lack the ability to create chances for each other, leaving that up to the rest of the team.

    Granted, a creative target man would fix that problem, but those are rare and expensive. A fast, creative striker would function well as a poacher, but the TC role would waste his talents.

    A typical poacher and a typical target man requires the midfield to be creative, good passers. Finding that kind is not difficult, but the defensive balance of the whole tactic could be missing unless you find creative passers with good physique, team work and work rate. But those are rare too.
    Thats why I use James Rodriguez as an advanced playmaker on the left. he tends to cut inside and provide the through balls with my wingback providing the width.

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    Target Man/Support
    Poacher/Attack - Designated target man - play ball to feet or run to ball...

    My Poacher ST also ends up with the European Golden Ball!!!

    So to answer your question, YES!!! Absolutely YES! As long as both are competent in their roles!

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    This is what the big guy looks like:


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    I've found the use of a Target Man to be completely ineffective. I used a regen striker as a Target Man on and off between the Blue Square Premier and League One. Despite at times aiming the ball at his head, and ensuring the team passed very directly, in many games he would attempt as few as 3 headers throughout the entire game. I found him far more effective as a Deep Lying Forward with his "Run With Ball" reduced to "Rarely".

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    Your strategy would probably work with Buzzi as a target man. I have never been able to make target man strategies work, though. Maybe it would be better to set him as playmaker, because that is a role I have been able to make work.

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    This worked for my Grimsby side, scored 97 goals in season 1, sadly defence was rubbish and conceded about 60 odd... Finished 4th in the end. I have used this or a similar combination in FM, usually with 1 CM and DM for tricky matches and use a long ball and for easier matches use 2 CM, one APM and one BWM.

    I just concede a lot because of my CB stats and the lack of a good RB as Bradley wood seriously underperformed there for me!

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    poacher and deeper lying forward works best imo

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    Buzzi looks quality, I'm sure he'd do fine as a targetman. I'd probably set passing to feet, his strength is very high (18) whereas jumping is only moderately high (16). Lots of centre backs have that jumping ability but few are that strong. It would also encourage him to use his first touch and passing abilities. I'd suggest a support role as he's better at creating than scoring (except headers) and that would stop them being isolated (not too much of an issue anyway, in my experience).

    Buzzi would be fine as a target man, deep lying forward, defensive forward, or even complete forward if he isn't expected to dribble much.

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    Appreciate the responses, I'll definetely take on board a lot of the comments you guys have given and see how it goes. Sadly he doesn't sign until January, I could have done with him a bit earlier with it being my first season in the Premiership.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SCIAG View Post
    Buzzi looks quality, I'm sure he'd do fine as a targetman. I'd probably set passing to feet, his strength is very high (18) whereas jumping is only moderately high (16). Lots of centre backs have that jumping ability but few are that strong. It would also encourage him to use his first touch and passing abilities. I'd suggest a support role as he's better at creating than scoring (except headers) and that would stop them being isolated (not too much of an issue anyway, in my experience).

    Buzzi would be fine as a target man, deep lying forward, defensive forward, or even complete forward if he isn't expected to dribble much.
    Just to add - his height is 189cm. Would you still recommend passing to feet rather than head?

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    i leave stuff alone and only specificly set a poacher as i encourage passing.
    i might try cavani as a target man on my united save.

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    @ JamboSteven

    Just had a look at your Buzzi, he looks like an all round player, look quite quality. If you chose to play him as a Targetman, I would definitely choose him in a Support Targetman role rather than an Attack Targetman role due to his high passing and reasonable creativity.

    As for using Passing to Head, Passing to feet or Mix option, I would suggest you consider your playing style too, especially that of your wingers

    1) If you team plays a very direct, long ball style with wingers crossing to head then Targetman with Passing to Head is definitely the choice

    2) If your team plays a mixed passing style with wingers select to cross in a mixed manner, then I would suggest selecting Targetman with Mix passing.


    IMO, for your case, I would choose to play Buzzi as a support Targetman man with Mix passing and direct your team and wingers to play a mox passing / crossing style.

    Oh! Remember to find a good Central Midfielder with high creativity and passing and set him as an advance playmaker with either support or attack role

    Hope the above helps
    Last edited by Lawteo; 11-01-2012 at 01:41.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawteo View Post
    @ JamboSteven

    Just had a look at your Buzzi, he looks like an all round player, look quite quality. If you chose to play him as a Targetman, I would definitely choose him in a Support Targetman role rather than an Attack Targetman role due to his high passing and reasonable creativity.

    As for using Passing to Head, Passing to feet or Mix option, I would suggest you consider your playing style too, especially that of your wingers

    1) If you team plays a very direct, long ball style with wingers crossing to head then Targetman with Passing to Head is definitely the choice

    2) If your team plays a mixed passing style with wingers select to cross in a mixed manner, then I would suggest selecting Targetman with Mix passing.


    IMO, for your case, I would choose to play Buzzi as a support Targetman man with Mix passing and direct your team and wingers to play a mox passing / crossing style.

    Oh! Remember to find a good Central Midfielder with high creativity and passing and set him as an advance playmaker with either support or attack role

    Hope the above helps
    Thanks for your input, I'll definitely give this a try!

    As for the creative central midfielder, I have just signed one so this shouldn't be a problem. I'd like to find out your views on central midfielder partnerships.

    I have generally went for one player who has more attacking attributes and one who has more defensive attributes - playing one as an AP and the other as a BWM. However, with my promotion to the Premiership I have decided that my BWM is no longer good enough for my first team and have made a signing in his place. Problem is - despite having fairly good defensive attributes my new signing is more attack focused. Would it be plausible to play 2 central midfielders with more attacking attributes and if so what roles would best be suited?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamboSteven View Post
    Just to add - his height is 189cm. Would you still recommend passing to feet rather than head?
    Height doesn't have any effect in the ME. It only affects Jumping, which is a player's ability to win challenges in the air (along with Strength, anticipation, off the ball, determination, aggression, bravery, agility). 189CM means that he don't have an upper limit for how high is jumping attribute can become, while less than 185cm tall players are very rarely more than 14.

    The problem with passing to head is that the physics engine doesn't simulate ball arch paths very realistically, so very few crosses will be precise while high enough over the ground to escape the intervention of any opponent positioned in the cross's path. Your players will also rarely choose to hit a long pass directly to him if he is marked, which is precisely the situations where they should do this. Luckily, Buzzi will be one of your best players so they will hopefully choose him as the main passing outlet anyways.

    If he is still not used often enough to your liking, I think setting him as a playmaker rather than target man would be better. His strength is high so it will be hard to take the ball from him and the standard OI instructions (everything on always) used by the AI won't be as effective because of this.

    Teach him Through Balls Often, Comes Deep to Get the Ball and Plays One-Twos in either case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BiggusD View Post
    Height doesn't have any effect in the ME. It only affects Jumping, which is a player's ability to win challenges in the air (along with Strength, anticipation, off the ball, determination, aggression, bravery, agility). 189CM means that he don't have an upper limit for how high is jumping attribute can become, while less than 185cm tall players are very rarely more than 14.

    The problem with passing to head is that the physics engine doesn't simulate ball arch paths very realistically, so very few crosses will be precise while high enough over the ground to escape the intervention of any opponent positioned in the cross's path. Your players will also rarely choose to hit a long pass directly to him if he is marked, which is precisely the situations where they should do this. Luckily, Buzzi will be one of your best players so they will hopefully choose him as the main passing outlet anyways.

    If he is still not used often enough to your liking, I think setting him as a playmaker rather than target man would be better. His strength is high so it will be hard to take the ball from him and the standard OI instructions (everything on always) used by the AI won't be as effective because of this.

    Teach him Through Balls Often, Comes Deep to Get the Ball and Plays One-Twos in either case.
    Thanks for the advice!

    Do you have any input on my central midfielder concerns?

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    It would be a crying shame to let a forward with Passing, Creativity, Decisions, and Flair like that waste away as a lumpen target man. Complete Forward, imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamboSteven View Post
    Thanks for your input, I'll definitely give this a try!

    As for the creative central midfielder, I have just signed one so this shouldn't be a problem. I'd like to find out your views on central midfielder partnerships.

    I have generally went for one player who has more attacking attributes and one who has more defensive attributes - playing one as an AP and the other as a BWM. However, with my promotion to the Premiership I have decided that my BWM is no longer good enough for my first team and have made a signing in his place. Problem is - despite having fairly good defensive attributes my new signing is more attack focused. Would it be plausible to play 2 central midfielders with more attacking attributes and if so what roles would best be suited?
    I play this formation with my Arsenal team with Great Success, in my 12th season now.

    ........SC...SC.........

    AML................AMR

    ........MC...MC........

    ...........................

    DL.....DC...DC.....DR


    The 2 fullbacks are in the Auto role (meaning attack as my team default setting is fluid passing with attacking movement)

    As for the 2 MCs, one of them is a Ball Winning Midfielder with Defend setting and the other is an Advance Playmaker (if they have good dribbling skills, I will set them in an attack mode, if not then I would set them in a support role)

    The 2 wingers are pretty straight forward, both in Attack setting

    As for the 2 Strikers, hehehe...any combo you favour then (I am currently using a Complete Forward / Poacher Combo)
    Last edited by Lawteo; 12-01-2012 at 13:19.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shake Appeal View Post
    It would be a crying shame to let a forward with Passing, Creativity, Decisions, and Flair like that waste away as a lumpen target man. Complete Forward, imo.
    Quite true,

    I, myself is currently using a Complete Forward / Poacher combo with GREAT Results

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    I'll definately give the Poacher / Complete Forward a try when he arrives then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamboSteven View Post
    Thanks for the advice!

    Do you have any input on my central midfielder concerns?
    If they are both hard-working and fast, it shouldn't be a problem. They need to cover a lot of ground, alone as they are.

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    I've generally found Advanced forward/Complete Forward to be a better combination that poacer/target man, but it probably varies based on your players.

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    yeah target man support or attack as a lone striker for Buzzi. Use some negative space in any given situations.

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    Out of Ronnie Bell and Martin Buzzi who should take up what role in my squad?

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    i have a question. if i were to play TM/S and P/A how should their mentality be?

    should i play TM/S with mentality of "defensive" and somehow he'll be playing in between midfield and attack. From there, long ball passes to him (pass to head) and flick-on to poacher?

    or should it be P/A have "defensive" mentality and let TM/S "lead the line"

    i can't seem to find the "perfect mentality" for them

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrjun View Post
    i have a question. if i were to play TM/S and P/A how should their mentality be?

    should i play TM/S with mentality of "defensive" and somehow he'll be playing in between midfield and attack. From there, long ball passes to him (pass to head) and flick-on to poacher?

    or should it be P/A have "defensive" mentality and let TM/S "lead the line"

    i can't seem to find the "perfect mentality" for them
    Their mentalities should both be attacking. The player you want to connect play between midfield and attack must drop deeper and you do that by telling him to run from deep rarely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BiggusD View Post
    Their mentalities should both be attacking. The player you want to connect play between midfield and attack must drop deeper and you do that by telling him to run from deep rarely.
    so what does their mentality do? hmm... i thought the mentality has got to do with where they are positioned.

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    Any opinions on who out the 2 players in the screenshots further up who should take up which role when playing 2 up front?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrjun View Post
    so what does their mentality do? hmm... i thought the mentality has got to do with where they are positioned.
    Mentality affects how willing a player is to go into a challenge to win possession of the ball, the direction of passing, willingness to make defensive runs, eagerness to make attacking runs off the ball (timing vs patience) and inclination to shoot

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    Sounds like the Czech side of 2004. Baros & Koller perfect examples. They were playing a 4-1-3-2, if I'm not mistaken. Qn: If I for eg. utilize Fernando Llorente as TM(Support) but I did not tick the TM option, does he still function as one? Apologies if this qn has been asked & answered numerous times before.

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    Again, any views on what roles each of the players in the screenshots above roles should be?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamboSteven View Post
    Again, any views on what roles each of the players in the screenshots above roles should be?
    Buzzi would work fine as both a target man and an advanced forward, both support and attack. Bell is very mediocre and has few strengths apart from Strength. I'd say setting him to a general (non-extreme) role and giving him some creative freedom is the way to go - so Advanced Forward support role.

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    In 2011, i signed Aguero for Man City and played both him and Dzeko up front, and they scored 35 goals each, it was crazy, ive not tried it with those 2 yet in 2012, but ive tried it with Cardiff and Aldershot but havent had the same results, but then again the players aren't of the same calibre

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    Imo it is important for Ronnie Bell, at the moment, more than anything else his training. What do your coaches advice you to do? What do you notice in his match behaviour? Can he produce and also in the same criteria can he be a negative part in your team's game? Is he consistent enough or even favours important matches? And if he has developed until now well rounded. His five star potential show that he wil be a very good player the following years. Good catch. He already has 10 U21 goals in 11 U21 apps. I ld guess that he has a very high pa also.

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    Quote Originally Posted by avine View Post
    Imo it is important for Ronnie Bell, at the moment, more than anything else his training. What do your coaches advice you to do? What do you notice in his match behaviour? Can he produce and also in the same criteria can he be a negative part in your team's game? Is he consistent enough or even favours important matches? And if he has developed until now well rounded. His five star potential show that he wil be a very good player the following years. Good catch. He already has 10 U21 goals in 11 U21 apps. I ld guess that he has a very high pa also.
    Ronnie doesn't score many goals, but he is currently set to DLF (Support). He gets quite a lot of assists so I suppose that makes up for his lack of goals.

    Buzzi has just joined in January and is just back from injury so he will be joining Ronnie up front in the coming weeks. Problem is, the 2 players suit similar roles in my opinion which is why I am having difficulties deciding who should take up which role.

    In term's of Ronnie's training what do you suggest I do? I know he is lacking a bit of speed but I'm not sure if it is worth sacrificing other areas of his game for an increase in speed. He is currently on "Furiusuk's TGM 1st Team" training schedule, what would you advise to maximise his training gains?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamboSteven View Post
    Ronnie doesn't score many goals, but he is currently set to DLF (Support). He gets quite a lot of assists so I suppose that makes up for his lack of goals.

    Buzzi has just joined in January and is just back from injury so he will be joining Ronnie up front in the coming weeks. Problem is, the 2 players suit similar roles in my opinion which is why I am having difficulties deciding who should take up which role.

    In term's of Ronnie's training what do you suggest I do? I know he is lacking a bit of speed but I'm not sure if it is worth sacrificing other areas of his game for an increase in speed. He is currently on "Furiusuk's TGM 1st Team" training schedule, what would you advise to maximise his training gains?
    Why should they have different roles?

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by BiggusD View Post
    Why should they have different roles?
    I've always just played with 2 different roles to capitalise on different strengths of each. I know there is no problem with 2 of the same roles but it's something I have never done and lack experience in.

    I think out of the 2, Buzzi has more goalscoring qualities so ideally he'd be looking to be in a role where he'll bag more goals. Ronnie gets a high number of assists so i suppose this would sit nicely with Buzzi focused on scoring.

    Would Buzzi - Advanced Forward (Attack) and Ronnie - Deep Lying Forward (Support) work well?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamboSteven View Post
    I've always just played with 2 different roles to capitalise on different strengths of each. I know there is no problem with 2 of the same roles but it's something I have never done and lack experience in.

    I think out of the 2, Buzzi has more goalscoring qualities so ideally he'd be looking to be in a role where he'll bag more goals. Ronnie gets a high number of assists so i suppose this would sit nicely with Buzzi focused on scoring.

    Would Buzzi - Advanced Forward (Attack) and Ronnie - Deep Lying Forward (Support) work well?
    That's a very classic setup that should work well, but perhaps not perfection. You really should go for more speed, though. You make it difficult for yourself by signing so slow players. You have taken Brentford to PL?

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    I bought Mario Gomez for 16.5 mil for Man Utd and use him as a target man with Hernandez as a poacher and it works a treat, Hernandez has scored 60 goals in 89 appearances over two seasons, Gomez has bagged a few as well...I found as well that if you can play a CAM behind the two strikers the CAM bags quite a few goals as well through using a TM..

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    Quote Originally Posted by BiggusD View Post
    That's a very classic setup that should work well, but perhaps not perfection. You really should go for more speed, though. You make it difficult for yourself by signing so slow players. You have taken Brentford to PL?
    Yeah it took me 5 years, i've managed to form a half decent team. However, life in the premiership is proving very difficult. I'm constantly in and out the relegation zone - which is why im trying to get this partnership (along with others) right.

    I knew he was slow from day one, but at Brentford my options are very limited and I couldn't pass on the opportunity of siging Ronnie on a free transfer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamboSteven View Post
    Yeah it took me 5 years, i've managed to form a half decent team. However, life in the premiership is proving very difficult. I'm constantly in and out the relegation zone - which is why im trying to get this partnership (along with others) right.

    I knew he was slow from day one, but at Brentford my options are very limited and I couldn't pass on the opportunity of siging Ronnie on a free transfer.
    Well it took me three seasons to take Bradford up there, and I have managed to sign much better players. The likes of Leigh Griffiths should be available to you too.



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    Some of the players I have managed to sign for Bradford. Given the club's stadium size I probably have a bigger budget than you, though, and bigger scouting network. And I managed to win the League Cup and gain access to Europe first season in PL.

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    A real life version of this was Heskey and Owen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamboSteven View Post
    Would Buzzi - Advanced Forward (Attack) and Ronnie - Deep Lying Forward (Support) work well?
    I would try Buzzi as an Advance Forward (Attack) and Ronnie as a Target Man (Support)

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    can someone tell me a good set up for the tactic creator for a 4-4-2 targetman / pocher tactic? whats the ground rules for the tactic to work correct??

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    a real life version is sort of, rooney welbeck/hernandez
    the target man is a more physical, creative striker.

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    Sth like

    GKd
    FBs
    BPDd
    BPDd
    FBaut
    Wa
    BWMd
    CMs
    Ws
    TMs
    Pa

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