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Thread: SI, have you considered making games based on other sports?

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    Default SI, have you considered making games based on other sports?

    I just love your style of game in football manager. I think an American Football and basketball game would be awesome. Rate players from 1-20 on different skills like in this game and in depth career mode.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin Andre View Post
    I just love your style of game in football manager. I think an American Football and basketball game would be awesome. Rate players from 1-20 on different skills like in this game and in depth career mode.
    That would only be for the American market. In Europe I don't think it would sell very well but America I wouldn't be able to say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin Andre View Post
    I just love your style of game in football manager. I think an American Football and basketball game would be awesome. Rate players from 1-20 on different skills like in this game and in depth career mode.
    Well if they would advertise in North America it might work. They didn't advertise enough in the North America (as well as piracy problems) so EHM was discontinued...other companies (like Wolverine Studios) have made college and pro basketball sims though.

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    I'm sure it's something that at the very least they've thought about, hence the name 'Sports Interactive' rather than 'Football Interactive'. Obviously they have a model which could potentially be transposed onto other sports, however actually doing would be take a huge investment, and be fraught with risk and uncertainty I'd imagine.

    To me, the strength of Football Manager is that you can immerse yourself into the vast footballing World. No matter where you live in the World, you can play as your local side. You can be the biggest club in the World and scout a kid from the Seychelles. The game is filled with depth, and I don't think there's another sport in the World that has that sort of depth which can be tapped into.

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    They tried it with baseball, think it was called Out of the Park. Guess it didn't work too well because SI stopped doing it a few/many years ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sperlz View Post
    I have thought for ages that SI should make up a new sport, maybe a futuristic type sport like Powerball or something. Then they can use the same kind of engine as Football manager but would not need any licensing and as it would be made up it would be easier to make as you are not basing it on a real sport. I think it would be brilliant

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    oh my god

    this gets raised every month, despite the majority stating it will never happen, people continue to create these types of threads.

    an NFL game will never ever be done by Sports Interactive. The cost of purchasing the licenses would send them near broke.

    I have also personally suggested this in the past and the man himself, Miles said it would never happen.

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    Since SI is based in Britain, sports games like basketball and baseball would be hard to design due to lack of knowledge in the sport.

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    Quote Originally Posted by warpeace View Post
    Since SI is based in Britain, sports games like basketball and baseball would be hard to design due to lack of knowledge in the sport.
    What a stupid thing to say.

    I suppose a British based mechanic couldn't fix a Mitsubishi because he isn't Japanese or a chef from Croydon couldn't possibly know how to make a pizza because he isn't Italian.


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    Out of the Park baseball is still going strong, and is by far the best baseball sim on the market, though I don't know whether SI has any continuing involvement.

    I too would love to see an American football version, partly because the game lends itself to precisely this kind of in-depth, data driven simulation and partly because there is no decent football game for the PC -- since Madden is now a console-based twitch-fest. I used to enjoy the management aspect of Madden immensely, but that was slowly phased out to make way for better graphics and a more realistic on-field experience -- two things I cared not one iota about.

    Licensing is the big obstacle, since Madden (I think) pays for exclusive rights and the NFL would charge a fortune. On the other hand, given the devotion of fans to FM, I suspect that if SI developed the game, some enterprising fan/player might come up with an importable database of real teams and players, thus doing an end-around the licensing issue.

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    I think to really do any sim justice you really need the developers involved to be 'into' the sport in question - as such having us chaps at SI make a 'Baseball', 'American Football' or whatever sim probably wouldn't work out as well as you'd expect simply because we don't know the sports in question as well as we do Football ...

    I'd recommend the following games for fans of Baseball, American Football etc.

    American Football:
    Front Office Football (Solecismic Software)
    Bowl Bound College Football (Grey Dog Software)

    Baseball:
    Out of the Park Baseball* (Out of the Park Developments)

    Basketball:
    Fast Break College Basketball (Fast Break Basketball)

    *If you're considering a Baseball sim and want to 'dip in' without paying for the PC version bear in mind that they released an iPhone/iPad/iTouch version of OOTP last year ....

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    Appreciate the input, Marc. But...

    The most recent version of Front Office Football is FOF 2007, released in 2006 and last updated late in 2010. BowlBound College Football hasn''t been updated since 06.

    Of course, the fact that these products died may be suggestive of the fact that there isn't the same market for a football sim as there is for a soccer sim.

    OOTP is great (though it's primarily a text-based sim, nothing like as sophisticated or in-depth as FM) and updated regularly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PAULHOLMES View Post
    The most recent version of Front Office Football is FOF 2007, released in 2006 and last updated late in 2010. BowlBound College Football hasn''t been updated since 06.
    I realise those haven't had an update in a while - but they are imho still the best examples out there, supporting them might encourage new versions to be made as the developers involved are still active .... its vital to support products if you want them to survive and evolve imho.

    If you want to try a game which is still very much in active development then perhaps PFS from Barcode Games (http://www.barcodegames.com/) - I'm afraid I don't know a lot about it as I haven't had a chance to play it yet (been kinda busy with FMHi development ;) ).

    Of course, the fact that these products died may be suggestive of the fact that there isn't the same market for a football sim as there is for a soccer sim.
    I don't think the market is as large because 'Football Sims' have been established for a very long time in Europe and there really hasn't been an equivalent in America for their sports - but personally I do think they'd be viable ... if not for a large publisher for a good independent developer - to some extent thats proven by the niche that OOTP Development have created for themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley21 View Post
    What a stupid thing to say.

    I suppose a British based mechanic couldn't fix a Mitsubishi because he isn't Japanese or a chef from Croydon couldn't possibly know how to make a pizza because he isn't Italian.

    What a stupid reply.

    The intention is obvious, and confirmed by Marc.

    Seen the stats and depth that baseball and NFL goes into? they aren't just sports you can pick up in a few months. SI would have to hire a whole new team, develop the concept, purchase the rights abroad. How long has the CM/FM series been going and still there are problems in the game.. now imagine that for MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA.

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    SI should go with a Rugby League Manager, it would be cheap to make and would turn a profit.

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    You just have to look at the money used to license and create , and then think how big is the actual market for it and would they be able to recoup costs and make a profit . What other individual sports are as big football , it is globally played and literally hundreds of countries compete against each other . For example you could say they should do a cricket manager , but that would only sell in England , New Zealand , etc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by William Hall View Post
    SI should go with a Rugby League Manager, it would be cheap to make and would turn a profit.
    The rugby union manager I played once was ok, this would be fun but probably wouldn't sell well and would need a decent 3D match simulation.

    Not being a football fan myself but being a rugby league fan who plays this game like an addict shows this game has appeal far beyond its sport, I am sure there are many others like me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sperlz View Post
    I have thought for ages that SI should make up a new sport, maybe a futuristic type sport like Powerball or something. Then they can use the same kind of engine as Football manager but would not need any licensing and as it would be made up it would be easier to make as you are not basing it on a real sport. I think it would be brilliant
    This made me sick

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    Formula 1 for sure.

    Licensing will be a problem.

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    how about SI just concentrate on the FM series so that it improves year in year out?thats for me i tell ya.

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    maybe Chess Manager?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange2000 View Post
    maybe Chess Manager?
    Im in!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by axehan1 View Post
    how about SI just concentrate on the FM series so that it improves year in year out?thats for me i tell ya.
    Agreed!!! Although i would absolutely love a Boxing Manager game, we fans of the sport have no decent ones out there at all at the moment!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by William Hall View Post
    SI should go with a Rugby League Manager, it would be cheap to make and would turn a profit.
    It would only be slightly cheaper (if at all) than Rubgy Union, which has a much bigger following.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iamweesel View Post
    Formula 1 for sure.

    Licensing will be a problem.
    Pretty sure the Boremula One licence would cost far too much. That is one of the reasons there's no more Grand Prix Manager games.

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    What about Mr. Miyagi Karate Kid Manager

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    how about Darts Manager ? surely the sport is massive over there right ? you could tour all the pubs in England for league games and then all over europe for Champions League darts. I think it would sell millions right ?

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    A manager game really needs to be a team thing, although cycling manager games seem to do well... Not sure why!

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    Quote Originally Posted by nine_iron View Post
    A manager game really needs to be a team thing, although cycling manager games seem to do well... Not sure why!
    Cycling very much is a team game. It's a bit special as a team game in that the main trophies are for individuals and not for the team, but no one can hope to win a major race without enough help from their team-mates.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyäegha View Post
    Cycling very much is a team game. It's a bit special as a team game in that the main trophies are for individuals and not for the team, but no one can hope to win a major race without enough help from their team-mates.
    I knew the team played a part in it but I guess it must be more substantial than I thought. The game does look pretty good though...

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    EHM, the ice-hockey sim still has quite a strong core following. There's a thread dedicated to it on this forums somewhere.

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    We could do with a decent Formula 1 Manager. Possibly with feeder series like GP2 in it as well. Unfortunately it's all about expensive licenses these days.

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    There is already a boxing manager sim out I cant remember what its called through, I know it aint a sport and I know there is already a sim out for it but Id love Sigames to do a wrestling or mixed martial arts sim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pangaea View Post
    They tried it with baseball, think it was called Out of the Park. Guess it didn't work too well because SI stopped doing it a few/many years ago.
    Actually they're still going strong and OOTP games have a good fanbase. They're also making a new hockey manager game which hopefully will be out by the start of the 2012-2013 NHL season.

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    Thumbs up

    I would buy a F1 or MMA manager for sure. However, it would take a lot of work and money to get it as good as Football Manager is today.

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    There was a professional wrestling simulator which I forget the name of, which borrowed very heavily from FM (or CM, as it was at the time- CM3, I think?) stylistically, although I've no idea whether that's still knocking around.

    The current best one in that field is again from Grey Dog Software, TEW. And, as someone with no prior knowledge of American Football whatsoever, I found Bowl Bound to be a lot of fun- difficult, but a lot of fun.

    Me, I'm still waiting for a certain SI programmer to get sick of FM and return to developing his incredible Chart Wars series ;). Truly excellent music management sim.

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    Off topic slightly but, BRING BACK FM LIVE!!!

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    I dream about a Rugby Manager, Euroleague manager or a game about the real complexity of F1. But as FM will not correct its big disadvantages, I would be against the migration of SI developers in any other sport section.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SCIAG View Post
    It would only be slightly cheaper (if at all) than Rubgy Union, which has a much bigger following.
    It would be cheaper because of a few aspects,

    1 - The licensing rights are quite a lot cheaper
    2 - You would only have to include the NRL and Super League at the start and then expand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawlore View Post
    There was a professional wrestling simulator which I forget the name of, which borrowed very heavily from FM (or CM, as it was at the time- CM3, I think?) stylistically, although I've no idea whether that's still knocking around.

    The current best one in that field is again from Grey Dog Software, TEW. And, as someone with no prior knowledge of American Football whatsoever, I found Bowl Bound to be a lot of fun- difficult, but a lot of fun.

    Me, I'm still waiting for a certain SI programmer to get sick of FM and return to developing his incredible Chart Wars series ;). Truly excellent music management sim.
    Cooperman he'd have bloody gnomes and pixies in FM if they didn't keep an eye on him;)

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    Darts!

    Just kidding.....

    ..... or am I?

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    i think a chessboxing management sim would be pretty cool.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_boxing
    :troll:

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    I miss EHM

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    If they released an SI Manager game this type of thread would eventually die...

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    I suspect if SI did branch out into another Sport they would get lots of criticism from FM fans about "diluting their resources"! I have always liked the idea of period databases though, ie FM12 but with the teams & players of 1979, or 1971.... or other years. Cant assure you it would sell well though and that is the issue no doubt! Perhaps one of the FM2013 anniversary bonus extras will be add on data files of this type? ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen\'s Shorts View Post
    If they released an SI Manager game this type of thread would eventually die...
    Do you mean something like 'SI Studio Director' a simulation in which you take Miles' job

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    Would be great to manage SI. Oh boy...

    After 20 years of hard work, building up a successful company with 70 full-time staff members out of nothing, developing a manager game that has won multiple awards and that no competitor has ever got even close, you release the annual version of your now close-to-perfect product with pride. You feel relaxed and log into the forums expecting some feedback from the fans and there it reads about 50 times: "**** you, SI,, the game is nwo totally utterly unplayabl for me! / Morale srwed up big time! / I could'nt get it work ffs in 2 minutes of Steam wtf is that / Will you evr gte the regens right, damn iditos even my grandpa could code btter / bloody horribl animation people moving like cavemen, bring back tactc editor and 2D, geez and did I mention morale? huh?" :mad:

    But however, because you are the manager you just gently click "Turn off the forums" and all the messages are gone.

    Aaaah, you smile with a big grin

    out of sight, out of mind.

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    What about other versions of football... street football, masters football, 7-6-5 a side football?

    Masters football would be sooooo

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    I´d love to see them make tennis manager! Could this be done???

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    What about Software Development Manager?

    You could choose to take over a small indie games company or an established giant. Pick a genre and develop a game. You could quickly bash out a crappy FPS clone for a fast buck or dive into a long development phase for a entirely new game environment.

    Maybe you fancy cutting back on development costs by releasing the game chock full of bugs and using customer feedback to develop patches. Will the savings be worth it in the long run? Or perhaps you fancy aiming for the holy grail of releasing a game that has been completely tested to run on all possible pc configurations and is totally bug free. Can you survive the long development period?

    Scout the world for regen staff who hold the key to the next big thing, make your game mod friendly or lock it down with DRM. The choice is yours.

    You are the Software Development Manager.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darkfng View Post
    What about Software Development Manager?

    You could choose to take over a small indie games company or an established giant. Pick a genre and develop a game. You could quickly bash out a crappy FPS clone for a fast buck or dive into a long development phase for a entirely new game environment.

    Maybe you fancy cutting back on development costs by releasing the game chock full of bugs and using customer feedback to develop patches. Will the savings be worth it in the long run? Or perhaps you fancy aiming for the holy grail of releasing a game that has been completely tested to run on all possible pc configurations and is totally bug free. Can you survive the long development period?

    Scout the world for regen staff who hold the key to the next big thing, make your game mod friendly or lock it down with DRM. The choice is yours.

    You are the Software Development Manager.
    Sounds a bit like Game Dev Story.

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    Ah, Game Dev Story- I was thinking the same thing, great little game. Although I never really got into Kairosoft's football game. Actually, thinking about it, I'm pretty sure that the aforementioned SI programmer (Rob Cooper) put together a software development game not too far from what you were describing. Might have to hunt around, see if I can turn that up.

    Also, Merc's analysis of the SI game is fantastic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darkfng View Post
    What about Software Development Manager?

    You could choose to take over a small indie games company or an established giant. Pick a genre and develop a game. You could quickly bash out a crappy FPS clone for a fast buck or dive into a long development phase for a entirely new game environment.

    Maybe you fancy cutting back on development costs by releasing the game chock full of bugs and using customer feedback to develop patches. Will the savings be worth it in the long run? Or perhaps you fancy aiming for the holy grail of releasing a game that has been completely tested to run on all possible pc configurations and is totally bug free. Can you survive the long development period?

    Scout the world for regen staff who hold the key to the next big thing, make your game mod friendly or lock it down with DRM. The choice is yours.

    You are the Software Development Manager.
    Reminds me Segagaga.

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    Anybody knows if the licenses for NHL would be expensive? Has it been a problem in the past? Because I think the biggest sport except soccer would be ice-hockey. Southern Europe would have no idea but I believe North America and northern Europe would be very interested.
    Someone mentioned MMA. I guess UFC (Zuffa) would be interested in investing/contributing to that kind of game as they work their asses off trying to expand the sport. Don't think it would look anywhere near FM though.
    If someone still has hopes for a ice-hockey sim I can recommend this site as they are trying to recreate EHM. http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=89
    I'm not involved myself but I try to check in once in a while to see the progress. Looks promising if you like indie. Peace out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmastermind124 View Post
    Sounds a bit like Game Dev Story.
    game dev is awesome

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    Would love an F1 Manager game, remember playing the old one on PC! =) Was great.
    Someone seriously needs to make one.

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    I agree that no sport is equal to football as far as the worldwide scope. Tennis could come close to that, it's popular almost everywhere except Africa and the middle east

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    Basketball is the fastest growing team sport, and popular in China, the Balkans, Spain, Greece, the Baltic Nations, Russia, Turkey and America.

    I think a basketball manager, with NBA AND Euroleague teams and Chinese league would be the sickest game in the world, and it would be easier to scout because there aren't as many basket ball players out there as there are footballers.

    I would buy this game if it was just NBA manager but adding Euroleagues would maybe attract the European market better and make the game more profitable.

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