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Thread: Football Manager 12.1.1 update *OFFICIAL* Feedback Thread

  1. #1101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriss View Post
    No it isn't, they are what people are blaming everything for (including the price of chips) mainly because they had some tweaks.

    Forget all the hypotheses and just do what comes naturally, the game isn't some kind of Chinese puzzle and if you just do what a manager would you'll do fine.
    The last sentence should be isolated made a sticky in its own right. Sadly as soon as someone posts unproven theories like this, they're being touted as fact. There is no way some smallish slider adjustments will ever cause any side to collapse - if you read through the patch notes it will however seem logical that:

    - tactics relying overly on corner (exploits) to score
    - risky tactics relying on the boost that comes with superb morale across the board, e.g. boost of the dribbling success of a single inside forward/winger
    - tactics that employ risky positioning play, such as the full backs pushing forward all the time regardless of opposition and scoreline, and the player never adapting to anything

    etc. might not be as effective anymore, as corners, both extreme ends of the morale scale and a bug that caused the AI teams to not properly react to a scoreline are changed and fixed respectively. And that is it. The game has never been about babysitting your players at all times via talks if you didn't want it to, nor is the visual part of the engine merely an estimate representation of what is being calculated, no matter how often everything is being theorized by someone, and then picked up as fact by a dozen.

  2. #1102
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulC View Post
    Interesting case. It's possible it isn't related to 12.1 at all, but also possible that one of the minor ME changes has had an unusually significanr effect on your team. The main ones I can think of:

    - we made AI attacking corner routines more similar to the human ones that we know are effective. But to balance things we also made delivery of corners a bit less accurate and also made it harder to head the ball accurately under severe pressure. So if your team was corner reliant, this could be a factor.

    - we made AI managers use touchline instructions a bit better. Main one used more is 'work ball into box' for the higher standard teams.

    - I fixed a slightly curious bug in the positioning of full backs in the defensive third of the pitch which in theory allowed teams to get in behind defences too easily in wide areas. Whether you were unwittingly exploiting this I don't know obviously.

    - team talk changes relating to managers world reputation in relation to works rep of their players. This would probably only apply if you are a low reputation manager in charge of a team of international standard players.
    I haven't scored much from corners. Also noticed the corner delivery in new patch... it's plain bad.. like the ball drifting over the entire defence and ending up for throw in. This seems to happen often, but I guess forcing short corners could counter that.

    I have seen many chances and goals created from my wingers getting behind the defence, so that could explain it? Just didn't see it as a bug. So if those are all the changes, all my formations must have been working only because of my wingers?

    I guess i'll try playing more direct and ditch the Wingers/InsideForwards, when I feel like playing again
    Last edited by paganizer; 29-12-2011 at 09:39.

  3. #1103
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    @ Paul C

    The Attack strategy no longer using counter attacks ( box set to yes) and the defensive strategy using it, it this a change between patches, 12.0.x to 12.1.x or was it change between editions ( FM11, FM12)?


    Cheers

  4. #1104
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    Yes was a change in 12.1.

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    PaulC - I notice you said you fixed a "slightly curious bug" in full-back positioning. One thing I've been unable to do anything about is my full-back almost seeming to stand aside for wingers as they attack us, allowing them down the wing and not looking to stop their progress until right at the byeline. Sometimes they'll eventually make a tackle resulting in a throw-in, but more often or not it results in a corner against us. What was bothering me a bit was the odd positioning of my full-back as a winger takes possession and starts to attack us down the wing. I couldn't figure out how to stop it. Is this what you've fixed?

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    Th teamtalks lost the sense, the reactions are simply absurd, I can not play like that.

  7. #1107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike7077 View Post
    PaulC - I notice you said you fixed a "slightly curious bug" in full-back positioning. One thing I've been unable to do anything about is my full-back almost seeming to stand aside for wingers as they attack us, allowing them down the wing and not looking to stop their progress until right at the byeline. Sometimes they'll eventually make a tackle resulting in a throw-in, but more often or not it results in a corner against us. What was bothering me a bit was the odd positioning of my full-back as a winger takes possession and starts to attack us down the wing. I couldn't figure out how to stop it. Is this what you've fixed?
    No it isn't that Mike.

  8. #1108
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    Quote Originally Posted by FanasdaBola View Post
    Th teamtalks lost the sense, the reactions are simply absurd, I can not play like that.
    If you have clear cut examples of it not making sense feel free to send the .pkm match files to me or upload them to our FTP.

  9. #1109
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulC View Post
    No it isn't that Mike.
    Ha! Thanks.

    I guess I'm on my own with this one, then.

  10. #1110
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    There are so many that it is impossible to enumerate all, it is impossible!

    If a player is stressed out and you tell him to calm down and play without pressure, is about to shut down!

    They simply do not react to teamtalks, or when they react in the opposite direction is the logic.

    At the end of the game if you say the team that these unhappy, but would like to thank the commitment of an individual player, it just hangs.

    It's not worth talking individually with a player. It's ridiculous!

  11. #1111
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    Just send the next match where something clearly wrong happens. If we don't get the evidence we can't do much....

  12. #1112
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    I can't believe how many goals I'm conceding after the new update. Its like the positioning of my defenders is 'out of my control'.

    And worst offending is after the 90th minute, I'm in November, and I've conceded 7 equalising goals after the 90th minute in league games, after clearly dominating these games too.

    Add that to the fact that my strikers are now making much poorer decisions in front of goal, missing clear one-on-one's by quite a margin wide, and hitting the woodwork on far too many occasions.

    I don't know what to do anymore!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike7077 View Post
    Ha! Thanks.

    I guess I'm on my own with this one, then.
    I think it's an inherent problem with the ME Mike, they'll track the winger but won't put in a tackle until he's nearly reached the byline, it's always annoyed me but I suspect it's something to do with their zonal/positional awareness.
    Could be wrong of course

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    I have my goalkeeper set up to distribute to the LB. This was working fine, but after the update, the LB has started just standing there. The goalkeeper will roll or pass the ball to him, but he'll stand there frozen. My LCB will come haring over as fast as he can to get the ball, while my LB just ignores it. On occasion, however, my poor overworked LCB is outpaced by an opposition striker. I'm yet to concede this way, thankfully, as the strikers who've won the race have proceeded to fire wide when it's easier to score, but I can't figure out how to stop this, other than to alter the 'keeper's distribution to "mixed". But I hate it when they hoof it upfield because it just comes straight back (which isn't unrealistic, by the way. I just like controlling possession).

  15. #1115
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    wowwwwwwwwwww Thank you

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    I fundamentally don't understand morale anymore. Players are schizophrenic. Randomly having low morale out of nowhere. It doesn't make any sense.

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    I hate the bug that implements OI's automatically. Pull your finger out SI!!!

  18. #1118
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    PaulC, did u reduce scoring from corners, when we put player on first post and near post aim? Ty

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevemc View Post
    I can't believe how many goals I'm conceding after the new update. Its like the positioning of my defenders is 'out of my control'.

    And worst offending is after the 90th minute, I'm in November, and I've conceded 7 equalising goals after the 90th minute in league games, after clearly dominating these games too.

    Add that to the fact that my strikers are now making much poorer decisions in front of goal, missing clear one-on-one's by quite a margin wide, and hitting the woodwork on far too many occasions.

    I don't know what to do anymore!?
    ^^^

    Anyone else finding this?

  20. #1120
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    Now in the A-League, the League/Premier winning manager gets no League win recorded, and the Finals Series/Championship winner gets 2 league wins recorded instead of a single Cup win; even if they didn't win the regular season at all (ie. deserved 0 league wins).

    Brought it up in the League Specific Issues area here, but figure the more people see the more likely it is to get dealt with

  21. #1121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matej View Post
    PaulC, did u reduce scoring from corners, when we put player on first post and near post aim? Ty
    I hope so but don't have any statistical confirmation.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevemc View Post
    I can't believe how many goals I'm conceding after the new update. Its like the positioning of my defenders is 'out of my control'.

    And worst offending is after the 90th minute, I'm in November, and I've conceded 7 equalising goals after the 90th minute in league games, after clearly dominating these games too.

    Add that to the fact that my strikers are now making much poorer decisions in front of goal, missing clear one-on-one's by quite a margin wide, and hitting the woodwork on far too many occasions.

    I don't know what to do anymore!?
    I'm hitting the woodwork far too much, but not really affected by the rest. Do you change to a more defensive outlook during the last 10 minutes? Because if the opposition are only a goal down, they're going to change to a more attacking outlook to try and equalize.

  23. #1123
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulC View Post
    I hope so but don't have any statistical confirmation.....
    Scoring from corners has definitely been corrected in a non-exploit situation (out of the box settings). I didn't test exploit either before or after patch.

  24. #1124
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevemc View Post
    ^^^

    Anyone else finding this?
    It sounds like a confidence issue, not a tactical one.

  25. #1125
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    in my preferences screen should I still be seeing version 1.0?

  26. #1126
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevemc View Post
    I can't believe how many goals I'm conceding after the new update. Its like the positioning of my defenders is 'out of my control'.

    And worst offending is after the 90th minute, I'm in November, and I've conceded 7 equalising goals after the 90th minute in league games, after clearly dominating these games too.

    Add that to the fact that my strikers are now making much poorer decisions in front of goal, missing clear one-on-one's by quite a margin wide, and hitting the woodwork on far too many occasions.

    I don't know what to do anymore!?
    Yes I have the same problem, I was winning most of my games 1-0, 2-0 , only concided 8 goals in 30 games, but after the update I struggle to score on easy chances and letting in 7 goals in 5 games.

  27. #1127
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    Quote Originally Posted by paganizer View Post
    First off - I'm not saying there wasn't a problem with morale before the recent patch. I did have a run of 30+ games scoring goals in every match.

    However something seems to be wrong now. I'm not even sure it has anything to do with morale...

    This is before the patch - as you can see I'm doing fine:



    This is after patch - can't score goals anymore:





    Now before you say this is because my team-morale must have gone to pathetic by now, then take a look at the morale of my squad...




    I haven't changed the way I play and I'm not playing with just one tactic. I use 3 different tactics to counter the opponent formations. All of them seem to be broken, or rather my players seem to be broken, cause they can't score anymore. It's a bit frustrating to say the least. Anyone able to shed some light on this problem?
    Just a follow up to help fellow strugglers..

    To start winning again, I did the following to all my tactics:

    - I read someone suggested playing more pressing, so I went from default to "more pressing"
    - I also went from default to "more expressive".
    - Last I upped the directness of play. I played short passing and instead went for default passing. This MIGHT also be because of the upped tempo, so if you want to play short passing try upping the tempo.

    These changes turned it around somewhat with 4 wins and 1 loss. It's still not like before, but atleast I'm scoring again and not dropping points every match.

    Maybe just one or 2 of these changes will help.. haven't tested enough, but it's a start for the frustrated folks out there.

  28. #1128
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    Quote Originally Posted by big daddy View Post
    Yes I have the same problem, I was winning most of my games 1-0, 2-0 , only concided 8 goals in 30 games, but after the update I struggle to score on easy chances and letting in 7 goals in 5 games.
    I imagine you were inadvertently taking advantage of the 'set piece routine' bug, which saw users converting as often as 1 goal in 4.5 shots, which is a totally unrealistic level. Once you'd scored, you'd then be getting the 'match prep' bug, which meant that AI 'get back into the game' secondary tactics were untrained and thus very ineffective. You'd also have taken advantage of the 'morale' bug, which would keep everyone in your team on superb morale, while heavily penalising many AI teams. The common outcome was winning many matches by the odd goal and conceding very few.

    Just a follow up to help fellow strugglers..

    To start winning again, I did the following to all my tactics:

    - I read someone suggested playing more pressing, so I went from default to "more pressing"
    - I also went from default to "more expressive".
    - Last I upped the directness of play. I played short passing and instead went for default passing. This MIGHT also be because of the upped tempo, so if you want to play short passing try upping the tempo.
    I'm glad you are winning again. However, there are no 'best ways' for tactics. You can win by playing short or direct, sitting back or pressing, being disciplined or expressive, playing slowly or quickly. The key is having a logical system that suits your team.
    Last edited by wwfan; 30-12-2011 at 22:08.

  29. #1129
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    Wish i could get mine to run....one minute its stating the steam servers are too busy...an update was pending, so went online and let it do its stuff.

    a swift machine reboot and now when launching I get game unavailable at this time, try later... wtf! Ive verified game cache as well!!

  30. #1130
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    Assmen being useless with teamtalks is driving me insane

  31. #1131
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    Quote Originally Posted by wwfan View Post
    I imagine you were inadvertently taking advantage of the 'set piece routine' bug, which saw users converting as often as 1 goal in 4.5 shots, which is a totally unrealistic level. Once you'd scored, you'd then be getting the 'match prep' bug, which meant that AI 'get back into the game' secondary tactics were untrained and thus very ineffective. You'd also have taken advantage of the 'morale' bug, which would keep everyone in your team on superb morale, while heavily penalising many AI teams. The common outcome was winning many matches by the odd goal and conceding very few.



    I'm glad you are winning again. However, there are no 'best ways' for tactics. You can win by playing short or direct, sitting back or pressing, being disciplined or expressive, playing slowly or quickly. The key is having a logical system that suits your team.
    I know there are no best ways. I was just saying what helped me change my 3 tactics from losing after patch to winning again. I should have been more precise about my playstyle though. Generally i play a balanced, standard/control, Short passing game. I use 3 very different formations to counter opponent tactics (4-1-2-2-1, 4-1-3-2. 3-1-2-3-1). That worked well until patch. Now it seems to works again with those little adjustments. But you are right these changes might not work well a bunch of other tactic styles.

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    Been playing FM for years. Huge fan of the game think brilliant things have been done to make it one of the greatest games ever.. I put hours upon hours into this game playing it (probably much more then I should) After this patch I simply stopped playing the game. It was a blast before yes the morale was a bit bugged and at times became simple but I had freedom in the transfer market, could sign coaches to any position I wanted. I usually play with Newcastle and I've never had any unrealistic achievements or transfers (trust me I've tried to sign some players that I had no chance at getting). Now I can't do anything in the transfer market, I can't sign any coaches/scouts and the morale is terrible no matter what I do with team talks, team meetings, personal talks, media handling nothing. I've started and restarted countless games just to play with it and find out if there is anything I can do and there is not. I've tried everything. I'm simply done playing until the transfer window is over and that new update comes out. It took the fun out of it and became a 2nd job. Could the game have been adjusted to increase the difficulty? Probably some tweaks here and there yes. Did the fun have to be sucked out of it? No. Some people enjoy the new updates but I do not. Not meant to complain or bash people who work on it because I know a lot of time is put into the game and if this is the direction FM is headed so be it. However, if changes aren't made in the next patch I'm simply done playing and probably won't buy FM 2013. With that said I hope improvements can be made after the January transfer window because I'm already suffering from some withdrawal.
    Last edited by fmnewcastle; 31-12-2011 at 04:57.

  33. #1133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kain View Post
    I'm hitting the woodwork far too much, but not really affected by the rest. Do you change to a more defensive outlook during the last 10 minutes? Because if the opposition are only a goal down, they're going to change to a more attacking outlook to try and equalize.
    Yeah I have a tactic for the last 10 minutes of a game, and I've used it to close out games (which didn't work) so tried building another tactics (and that didn't work either)

    Quote Originally Posted by BiggusD View Post
    It sounds like a confidence issue, not a tactical one.
    Doubt it, because after winning my pre-season matches the morale was great, and in the first game of the season, these silly last minute goals started.

    Quote Originally Posted by big daddy View Post
    Yes I have the same problem, I was winning most of my games 1-0, 2-0 , only concided 8 goals in 30 games, but after the update I struggle to score on easy chances and letting in 7 goals in 5 games.
    Yeah, my forwards are missing far too many chances (mainly against the woodwork), also my right winger is the leading scorer in the league (by some distance too).

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    I understand that with the starting experience system that players will have a hard time motivating for you at the start, but how long does this take to change? After one season they start trusting you more?

  35. #1135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coentrao View Post
    I understand that with the starting experience system that players will have a hard time motivating for you at the start, but how long does this take to change? After one season they start trusting you more?
    You will need to make a name for yourself, basically. Could take at least a season at the top levels, although none of this is relevant really at the lower league levels.

  36. #1136
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulC View Post
    I think we've made a decent fist of it to be fair, but there is always room for improvement.

    We just felt the balance of the ME in 11.3 was very good so decided not to make too many changes since. That doesn't mean work hasn't been ongoing in the background for future releases obviously!
    Bingo.


    In my opinion the match engine is absolutely and completely NOT balanced or realistic, the ME is more or less broken. The early goal problem and others are examples of this. IT just has a tabloid/arcadey feel to it, with too many scripted events and in my opinion, not enough of what you do to prepare for a match has any impact what so ever on what happens. And why on earth a game that has graphics worse than actua soccer in the 90s should take up so much processing power I will never know. In my opinion not addressing the weaknesses in the BROKEN Match Engine is a major blunder. You have just lost a customer, I will not be forking out for another game which has something fixed, that should have been fixed 2 or 3 games ago, just because SI felt tinkering with the UI and not fixing bugs for 3 games running was good enough.

    Thankyou and goodnight.

  37. #1137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Total_Football View Post
    Bingo.


    In my opinion the match engine is absolutely and completely NOT balanced or realistic, the ME is more or less broken. The early goal problem and others are examples of this. IT just has a tabloid/arcadey feel to it, with too many scripted events and in my opinion, not enough of what you do to prepare for a match has any impact what so ever on what happens. And why on earth a game that has graphics worse than actua soccer in the 90s should take up so much processing power I will never know. In my opinion not addressing the weaknesses in the BROKEN Match Engine is a major blunder. You have just lost a customer, I will not be forking out for another game which has something fixed, that should have been fixed 2 or 3 games ago, just because SI felt tinkering with the UI and not fixing bugs for 3 games running was good enough.

    Thankyou and goodnight.
    I'm sorry you feel that way but you have a right to your opinion and we can't please everyone all the time.

  38. #1138
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevemc View Post
    ^^^

    Anyone else finding this?
    Do you have a very young team? I found that a young defence would often fold in the last ten minutes and that I needed a two goal cushion to be sure of the win. Now they are maturing, late goals are becoming a rarity.

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    I started a new save as a Sunday League rep manager at Bayern Munich. I've also never once read one of the elaborate team talk/training/etc. guides in my entire life, as I would rather develop my own philosophies based on experience, rather than milk every bonus point and advantage I can out of the game's mechanics. This is also the reason that Tactical Theorems is the only guide I ever recommend to newcomers to the game, as it is communicating a template to build your own ideas upon, rather than boiling down to a power gaming guide meant to maximize the gain in every aspect of the game.

    I think that some have become overly obsessive about team talks in particular, seeing them as a mini-game that needs to be "won" (green arrow) rather than lost (red arrow) at all times in order to achieve anything. Which is exactly what it is, being overly obsessive - this is my team as a Sunday League rep manager who often times still cannot reach his players, has mixed results on the "arrows front" and who just had a team talk going in the wrong direction (seven red arrows) - really, so what?!: http://s14.directupload.net/file/d/2...pdu7mw_jpg.htm
    Last edited by Svenc; 31-12-2011 at 14:13.

  40. #1140
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    i agree with Total_football , ME is horrible 12.1.1 screwed it even more . my defenders keep making mistakes that we only see in very lower leagues doing it .
    I have read several forums and the complain is the same its like SI is dedicated to destroying tactics that were effective not improving the ME

  41. #1141
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulC View Post
    I'm sorry you feel that way but you have a right to your opinion and we can't please everyone all the time.
    It appears to me like this has displeased many people.

  42. #1142
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    At the moment I remain unaffected by any supposed negative effects of the improved morale modelling, so I'll refrain from voicing any opinions on that at this time.

    I do believe however that the endless moaning about team talks is hugely unwarranted. If you're less reputable than your players they listen less, if you're more they take whatever you throw at them unless it's way out of line. That said, the effect of any team talk player reaction - as has been stated by the dev guys in here, and which have been validated on a personal level via my own experiences - is usually pretty small.

    As a test, final game of the season with a team with good/very good morale and against a team I was expected to thrash I told them all that there was no pressure - which was met by a ton of complacency. I then told the individual groups that I expected a performance - resulting in a sea of red, confused players. Half time, 4-0 up. Opposite case at half time, told them not to get complacent, met with much "gained focus, seemed motivated, etc. except for the star winger (ex-Boca player, who is clearly of a higher rep than me) who was angry with that. So I got aggressive and told him I expected a performance, still angry obviously. He goes out and scores one of the two goals of the half (a cracker) and we win 6-0, the biggest win of the season.

    Last year you didn't get that instant feedback for teamtalks, but now with red and green every time you say something it's far too easy for people to come on here and blame that for their bad luck or poor tactical choices or run of bad games. With added transparency to team talks it's become an easy target. However, for me the transparency has had an opposite effect whereby I now know the magnitude of the impact of team talks on match performance is far less than I believed it to be in the past.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fmnewcastle View Post
    It appears to me like this has displeased many people.
    I agree, I am currently uninstalling FM2012 and reinstalling 2011. It is much the same game, except the match engine at least functions to a good standard, and the player interaction system works most of the time, and the rest of the game actually works. These things in 2012: match engine (which they will not be working on, I find this completely incomprehensible) and morale/interactions are completely unacceptable. I can't describe how frustrating I have found the match engine on 2012, it take a considerable amount of investment of time and effort to play this game well, and to be rewarded after all that with this atrocity is just going to put many, many people off.

    If you want my advice SI, stop making the match engine about sensationalism and random events, and make it an extension of the simulation. I want to see the work I do before games have at least some bearing on the game, else whats the point? Its not just me either, if you go round forums of even FM fan sites, you will find a tangible disgruntlement at this years game.

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    Errr, the match engine has remained virtually unchanged from FM11 so your comments are rather self contradictory to me.

    The reason for next to no changes is that it had really reached its ceiling as far as curing its long term ills, therefore PaulC and his team are working on the next generation ME which presumably will be capable of having things like the not quite fully curable corner problem and other well known glitches ironed out.

  45. #1145
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    By virtually unchanged I was referring to the game as a whole not the match engine. If you have two identical plates but one is broken, they are still identical, just one is broken. Same with the match engines.

  46. #1146
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    Quote Originally Posted by wwfan View Post
    Do you have a very young team? I found that a young defence would often fold in the last ten minutes and that I needed a two goal cushion to be sure of the win. Now they are maturing, late goals are becoming a rarity.
    Improved stamina?

  47. #1147
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    I have a question, when I go to the Game Status page it says my Version of the game is 12.1.0 242761 (m.e v993). I'm guessing that means it hasn't been patched to 12.1.1 yet, even if I have been online on Steam a couple of times in the past few days. Any idea how to get the game patched to the latest version?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kostako View Post
    At the moment I remain unaffected by any supposed negative effects of the improved morale modelling, so I'll refrain from voicing any opinions on that at this time.

    I do believe however that the endless moaning about team talks is hugely unwarranted. If you're less reputable than your players they listen less, if you're more they take whatever you throw at them unless it's way out of line. That said, the effect of any team talk player reaction - as has been stated by the dev guys in here, and which have been validated on a personal level via my own experiences - is usually pretty small.

    As a test, final game of the season with a team with good/very good morale and against a team I was expected to thrash I told them all that there was no pressure - which was met by a ton of complacency. I then told the individual groups that I expected a performance - resulting in a sea of red, confused players. Half time, 4-0 up. Opposite case at half time, told them not to get complacent, met with much "gained focus, seemed motivated, etc. except for the star winger (ex-Boca player, who is clearly of a higher rep than me) who was angry with that. So I got aggressive and told him I expected a performance, still angry obviously. He goes out and scores one of the two goals of the half (a cracker) and we win 6-0, the biggest win of the season.

    Last year you didn't get that instant feedback for teamtalks, but now with red and green every time you say something it's far too easy for people to come on here and blame that for their bad luck or poor tactical choices or run of bad games. With added transparency to team talks it's become an easy target. However, for me the transparency has had an opposite effect whereby I now know the magnitude of the impact of team talks on match performance is far less than I believed it to be in the past.

    Can anyone verify this; players responding in red in team talks is not necessarily a bad thing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fmnewcastle View Post
    Been playing FM for years. Huge fan of the game think brilliant things have been done to make it one of the greatest games ever.. I put hours upon hours into this game playing it (probably much more then I should) After this patch I simply stopped playing the game. It was a blast before yes the morale was a bit bugged and at times became simple but I had freedom in the transfer market, could sign coaches to any position I wanted. I usually play with Newcastle and I've never had any unrealistic achievements or transfers (trust me I've tried to sign some players that I had no chance at getting). Now I can't do anything in the transfer market, I can't sign any coaches/scouts and the morale is terrible no matter what I do with team talks, team meetings, personal talks, media handling nothing. I've started and restarted countless games just to play with it and find out if there is anything I can do and there is not. I've tried everything. I'm simply done playing until the transfer window is over and that new update comes out. It took the fun out of it and became a 2nd job. Could the game have been adjusted to increase the difficulty? Probably some tweaks here and there yes. Did the fun have to be sucked out of it? No. Some people enjoy the new updates but I do not. Not meant to complain or bash people who work on it because I know a lot of time is put into the game and if this is the direction FM is headed so be it. However, if changes aren't made in the next patch I'm simply done playing and probably won't buy FM 2013. With that said I hope improvements can be made after the January transfer window because I'm already suffering from some withdrawal.
    same for me, i have dozens of hours pre update, not about 1 or 2 since and havn't played for over a week

  50. #1150
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    Quote Originally Posted by pigfacemonkeyman View Post
    Improved stamina?
    Perhaps. Or concentration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simply... Awesome! View Post
    Can anyone verify this; players responding in red in team talks is not necessarily a bad thing?
    Red team talk responses aren't so bad, except the "Lost confidence" one.

    What's more problematic is nervousness and complacency, and those you see in the match itself. My Roma team, after doing well second season, are still not listening to me third season since I haven't won anything yet. They go into matches nervous, complacent and uninterested but I win anyways.

    I often tell them to avoid complacency at half time when leading while being favourites to win, and some players always respond angrily. I have yet to see a negative effect in-match from this. Often I see the same player "looking motivated" or "playing with confidence" shortly thereafter.

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    Yes I probably sound like a broken record to those paying attention but the ME in 12.1 is 99% the same as in 11.3, as stated by Kriss.

    Agree with the post by Kostako about team talks; they are just one factor. However I wouldn't agree that red reaction isn't always negative - just that it may not always be negative enough to change the outcome of the result ;-)
    Last edited by PaulC; 01-01-2012 at 08:32. Reason: Rubbish at writing on iPhone ;-)

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    Edit: It seems Steam forgot to update the news. The game itself says its on the new version. Even the update history in Steam is wrong for the game.
    Last edited by CesUtd; 01-01-2012 at 09:09.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BiggusD View Post
    Red team talk responses aren't so bad, except the "Lost confidence" one.

    What's more problematic is nervousness and complacency, and those you see in the match itself. My Roma team, after doing well second season, are still not listening to me third season since I haven't won anything yet. They go into matches nervous, complacent and uninterested but I win anyways.

    I often tell them to avoid complacency at half time when leading while being favourites to win, and some players always respond angrily. I have yet to see a negative effect in-match from this. Often I see the same player "looking motivated" or "playing with confidence" shortly thereafter.
    ty

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulC View Post
    Agree with the post by Kostako about team talks; they are just one factor. However I wouldn't agree that red reaction isn't always negative - just that it may not always be negative enough to change the outcome of the result ;-)
    Sorry I find your double negatives doesn't clarify.

    This is how I understand this: Red Team talks (like many other things) is just one factor and should not be considered in isolation, and can be negative thing to have. Your comment doesn't say if it is sometimes OK (or desirable) to have a Red response sometimes.

    For example, if you praise your players too much, their moral would be great but their complacency would increase...

  55. #1155
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    Since the patch I have been unable to manually change individual setpiece instructions to whatever I like, its gone back to only allowing me to swap instructions between players. Any idea why or how I go back to how it was before?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wwfan View Post
    Do you have a very young team? I found that a young defence would often fold in the last ten minutes and that I needed a two goal cushion to be sure of the win. Now they are maturing, late goals are becoming a rarity.
    Quote Originally Posted by wwfan View Post
    Perhaps. Or concentration.
    Quote Originally Posted by pigfacemonkeyman View Post
    Improved stamina?
    Well its Rio & Vidic at the back, couldn't get a better pairing than that really, the amount of last minute goals being conceded is crazy.

    Like I said, its since Steam updated my game to 12.1 (its the same save game).

    I'm not going to bother playing FM12 until the next patch, then I'll give it another try, I'm sick to death of all this faffing around. And if I'm still not satisfied then I think I'll not bother purchasing next years version.

  57. #1157
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    Quote Originally Posted by McAvennie View Post
    Since the patch I have been unable to manually change individual setpiece instructions to whatever I like, its gone back to only allowing me to swap instructions between players. Any idea why or how I go back to how it was before?
    Set the instruction for one player, untick the box, set the same instruction for another player and tick the box of the first player again. Now both players should be on the same instruction.

  58. #1158
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    Just out of curiosity, when (roughly) is the next patch/update due for release?

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevemc View Post
    Well its Rio & Vidic at the back, couldn't get a better pairing than that really, the amount of last minute goals being conceded is crazy.

    Like I said, its since Steam updated my game to 12.1 (its the same save game).

    I'm not going to bother playing FM12 until the next patch, then I'll give it another try, I'm sick to death of all this faffing around. And if I'm still not satisfied then I think I'll not bother purchasing next years version.
    stevemc, my post was a direct response to wwfan and not a comment on your situation.

  60. #1160
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelthestrange View Post
    Set the instruction for one player, untick the box, set the same instruction for another player and tick the box of the first player again. Now both players should be on the same instruction.
    Thanks for the reply, however thats not working, its still swapping the instruction with the other player

  61. #1161
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    I just went to start up Football Manager 2012 i not got round to playing it for a while but loaded up with no problems before but now in my stream application despite it saying ready to play and preparing to launch football manager nothing is coming up despite it saying last time I played it was today.
    In the past I would get a screen with a menu start new game load a game settings etc but this isn't appearing, any ideas why not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony7 View Post
    I just went to start up Football Manager 2012 i not got round to playing it for a while but loaded up with no problems before but now in my stream application despite it saying ready to play and preparing to launch football manager nothing is coming up despite it saying last time I played it was today.
    In the past I would get a screen with a menu start new game load a game settings etc but this isn't appearing, any ideas why not?
    In Task Manager, is it running in Processes but not Programs?

  63. #1163
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    Quote Originally Posted by BiggusD View Post
    In Task Manager, is it running in Processes but not Programs?
    On my mac I go to Activity Monitor steam is running but no football manager but when I try quit Football Manager it says please close Football Manager before exiting Steam.

  64. #1164
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    Yep im back again with another problem with this patch. Started a new career, 1st game of the season game finishes 1-1, however it shows i lost the game 2-0 but the score shows as 1-1 on latest scores. Team talk at the end of the match says go easy on the players after the defeat, WTF???. I then try to proceed with the game and it wont let me move off the screen. I cant go on holiday because i get a little message saying i cant holiday during a game despite the game finishing. I am fuming, the older patch had very few errors this new patch is just riddled with them.

    Once upon time you could choose what patch you wanted to run on a new game, why is this not an option anymore? Yet again we are let down by a paltry unfinished version of football manager which has been evident for the past 3 years.
    Last edited by brawler; 01-01-2012 at 15:37. Reason: spelling

  65. #1165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony7 View Post
    On my mac I go to Activity Monitor steam is running but no football manager but when I try quit Football Manager it says please close Football Manager before exiting Steam.
    Well I have no clue about Mac but it should be possible to shut down the process that is evidently running stilll. If not you will have to restart the machine.

    In any case, what I discovered was the problem when I got that exact thing happening, was that my video card was not installed at all (win7 recently installed on a new harddrive). But does Mac have video cards and drivers? I think it is a local hardware or software issue rather than a steam issue.

  66. #1166
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    Quote Originally Posted by brawler View Post
    Yep im back again with another problem with this patch. Started a new career, 1st game of the season game finishes 1-1, however it shows i lost the game 2-0 but the score shows as 1-1 on latest scores. Team talk at the end of the match says go easy on the players after the defeat, WTF???. I then try to proceed with the game and it wont let me move off the screen. I cant go on holiday because i get a little message saying i cant holiday during a game despite the game finishing. I am fuming, the older patch had very few errors this new patch is just riddled with them.

    Once upon time you could choose what patch you wanted to run on a new game, why is this not an option anymore? Yet again we are let down by a paltry unfinished version of football manager which has been evident for the past 3 years.
    I've seen this reported a number of times in the bug forum. Hopefully, this will be corrected next patch.

  67. #1167
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    I am not able to update my game to 12.1.1. Currently, I am using 12.1.0 and my steam client is in online mode. But, it is not updated automatically. How can I update my game?

  68. #1168
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArsenalFan7 View Post
    Haven't read the thread so sorry if it's been mentioned but free kicks are still not going in enough for me.

    This is the stats from last season:



    I don't know how this compares to real life but it must be much, much worse.

    Other's in the thread have stated they're seeing few DFK's go in.

    Cheers
    So is there any chance free kicks shall be improved?

    They're literally worthless to me at the moment despite having amazing free kick takers such as Douglas Costa.

  69. #1169
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    Can somebody please tell me why only about.. 3 or 4 decent scouts are willing to sign for Newcastle after the update? People who would sign for a championship team but not a premier league? Is it only Newcastle or is it broken for other teams?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArsenalFan7 View Post
    So is there any chance free kicks shall be improved?

    They're literally worthless to me at the moment despite having amazing free kick takers such as Douglas Costa.
    Been a problem for ages in FM

    I'm currently playing a network game with my brother and in 3seasons (on 12.1.1) neither of us had scored a single freekick, and i hadn't had one scored against me either. Then the last time we played each other Gylfi Sigurdsson scored 2 in the same match to help me beat him 2-1, needless to say he wasn't too pleased

    But it's a bit ridiculous how a player like Sigurdsson has only scored 2 in 3seasons considering the amount he must have taken in that time.

  71. #1171
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    It is indeed ridiculous.

    I'm now at the point where I'm sick of seeing kick takers sky it over despite having excellent attributes for the role so I've now decided to set my free kick option to 'Best Header', will see how this goes.

  72. #1172
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArsenalFan7 View Post
    It is indeed ridiculous.

    I'm now at the point where I'm sick of seeing kick takers sky it over despite having excellent attributes for the role so I've now decided to set my free kick option to 'Best Header', will see how this goes.
    Try Far Post with default attacking free kick settings.

  73. #1173
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    Oh SI you better produce the goods in the next patch. Ive gone back to CM0102 for the time being

  74. #1174
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    Quote Originally Posted by BiggusD View Post
    Try Far Post with default attacking free kick settings.
    You sure? Is this some sort of exploit?

  75. #1175
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    Can somebody please tell me why only about.. 3 or 4 decent scouts are willing to sign for Newcastle after the update? People who would sign for a championship team but not a premier league? Is it only Newcastle or is it broken for other teams?

  76. #1176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley21 View Post
    Then the last time we played each other Gylfi Sigurdsson scored 2 in the same match to help me beat him 2-1, needless to say he wasn't too pleased
    Ah, Gylfi! On FM 2010 I saw a match report popping up in which he appeared on the score sheet. I watched the goal in the highlights and of course it was scored from a direct free kick. :-D

    The number of goals scored (dunno about the conversion rate, which is something entirelly different...) from DFKs in FM is lower than in real-life, but I think both the popular influence on the perception of sports of rather glorified sims of the real sports such as FIFA and PES as well as human habit to only remember the memorable has lead many to believe direct free kicks would be converted more often than they actually are: http://enbsports.blogspot.com/2011/0...free-kick.html I've also seen somebody linking to this article in another thread: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...on-so-far.html

    On my current save, I have the big leagues simulated on full detail, and half-way through the season there is a total number of goals scored from DFKs between 12 and 18 each, actually. As for single teams, Liverpool scored the most with four (end of January), though I'm not sure who takes them - it isn't Charlie Adam however, despite having the best FK stat in their squad. And on my first FM 2012 save, which was last saved in April in-game time, the number of direct free kicks scored varied from 14 to 23 by that time of the season across the leagues each, with multiple teams converting 2 or more. In Germany, I'm usually also simulating the lower divisions in full detail, and the stats in 2. Bundesliga look comparable. So, as evident of that Ligue 1 season finish shot, the number can be far lower in the game, but at least personally I have yet seen that to happen. Until then, with the number of leagues and saves I did filter, this looks like the extreme oddity to me rather than being representative for your average FM number of direct free kicks converted into goals.
    Last edited by Svenc; 02-01-2012 at 07:38.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simply... Awesome! View Post
    For example, if you praise your players too much, their moral would be great but their complacency would increase...
    Eh?

    How on earth does great morale equal more complacency?

  78. #1178
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    Over confidence?

    Just saying like ;-)

  79. #1179
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    I don't know what people are really complaining about.This last update did really change a lot for me too but...It is true i score less too as some people here complained but the average number of points i get per month remains very much the same.The players are finally moving around the pitch as they are supposed to.If you ask me tactics new give more accurate results(the way the team plays).
    For me there are only 2 big issues that remain-injury time...me or the AI makes a goal scoring attack and the refferee blows fulltime?!
    The other one is when players(both player and AI ) receive direct red cards in the middle of the pitch.On the other side when the last deffender takes down a striker he gets yellow only or even no card.

  80. #1180
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    You are wrong Paul.

    Just saying like ;-)

  81. #1181
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSH View Post
    Eh?

    How on earth does great morale equal more complacency?
    If you read it again you will see that he says 'too much praise' may increase complacency, not 'great morale'

  82. #1182
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    So when would the next patch be due?

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    im newcastle in my first season and it says im "league runners up" this must be a bug???

  84. #1184
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulC View Post
    Yes I probably sound like a broken record to those paying attention but the ME in 12.1 is 99% the same as in 11.3, as stated by Kriss.

    Agree with the post by Kostako about team talks; they are just one factor. However I wouldn't agree that red reaction isn't always negative - just that it may not always be negative enough to change the outcome of the result ;-)
    Do you also help write parts of the manual?

  85. #1185
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    Just loooking at my Editor and its still saying IM on version 12.0.0, Ive logged into Steam and its saying Im up to date. This is wrong though surely

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    My guess would be as there have been no data updates the database stays at 12.0.0.

  87. #1187
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    SI, is there a future plan of another update for FM12?

    Thanks

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    There may be another game update but no date has been set.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulC View Post
    There may be another game update but no date has been set.
    Thanks, is that update for the January Transfer Window (ie, player movements etc), or to patch up the game, or both?

    Cheers

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    Not sure as yet Steve.

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    While your're here. Paul, any word on a possible fix relating to players going unmarked at throw-ins? I seem to be noticing this much more after the latest update.

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    Hopefully both!

  93. #1193
    Sports Interactive PaulC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barside View Post
    While your're here. Paul, any word on a possible fix relating to players going unmarked at throw-ins? I seem to be noticing this much more after the latest update.
    I'll be honest, its unlikely. I imagine its an annoyance but not fundamental enough to be deemed "must fix" for 12.2.

  94. #1194
    Third Team
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    You're right that it's annoying but at least it's such a fundamental flaw that it actually achieves balance by affecting both human & AI controlled teams.

  95. #1195
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    I doubt that this is intentional: But I'm the kind of manager who sometimes wants to put pressure on opposing key players via the media. I'd often check their conversation history for public news that hint at them crumbling under pressure, and then try to apply the same. However, it appears that on the conversation history screen there is something going wrong. If you click on the tab, often times you suddenly get to see the last conversation that took place, even if it didn't take place in public, but in private, such as this one.

    Otherwise, my save is going awesome, sadly my holidays are over. I like that the extreme ends of morale were tweaked, in particular as the permanent "superb morale" boost made my team in FM 2011 overachieve in every season without effort due to the boost that came with short series of good results (sometimes less), and even as the cheapest team of the league I entered, I never had a relegation battle due to weaker AI clubs being permanently stuck in "abysmal morale" rut endlessly, making them getting results so bad you couldn't possibly compete. I'm sure the player/staff/interaction might produce some quirky conversations, but when they gel, they gel hard. Coming from a national manager save previously, I also like that the AI teams seem to be more aware of their talent, and that I have to pay some real money if I want to sign them - that is, if the club even decides to enter a negotiation rather than denying any offer straight away. So far I'm only relying on scout reports, stats of fully simulated popular competitions, news and agents, testing if I can go by without the all-knowing "player search", which means most of my targets are from the bigger leagues. Even English keepers are being simulated in fitting fashion.
    Last edited by Svenc; 02-01-2012 at 22:44.

  96. #1196
    First Team Squad Member
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    According to genie scout my game now has a whopping 116,000 players in it all of a sudden despite me starting with 60-70k, I'm in April 2014 so this means players haven't retired but even so, can anyone explain this? This has only just appeared, before I had a normal rate.

    Is this due to too many regens coming in or what? Or is it just a glitch in the programming potentially?
    Last edited by ArsenalFan7; 03-01-2012 at 06:51.

  97. #1197
    Amateur
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    I don't have such an issue - started with 42000, have 43000 in 2023.
    Anyway, PaulC can you or any of your colleagues please take a look at the following two threads:
    http://community.sigames.com/showthr...es-another-one.
    http://community.sigames.com/showthr...alling-nations.

    I and some others believe this system is very distorted and needs fixing. Can we have some feedback from SI's point of view as we are observing quite strange things happening with newgens. Thanks

  98. #1198
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    What's up with player condition after this patch? Seems like every time there are two matches in the space of a week every player is capped at 95% for the second one regardless of whether they actually played in the first. Is it just in my game? Or if not, what's the point of that? To render rotation pointless so the AI teams who suck at it would be more competitive? Or what?

  99. #1199
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    Also, what's with the 'recent attribute changes' arrows? These now show up even if the attribute hasn't changed. I suppose it's to indicate a slight change that's not enough to bring the attribute number up or down but it makes the profile page a mess and much harder to actually follow player progress/regression.

  100. #1200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Äktsjon Männ View Post
    Also, what's with the 'recent attribute changes' arrows? These now show up even if the attribute hasn't changed. I suppose it's to indicate a slight change that's not enough to bring the attribute number up or down but it makes the profile page a mess and much harder to actually follow player progress/regression.
    I think it makes it much easier to follow player progression, and you spot players having a poor training period much earlier than with the previous system

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