Football Manager 12.1.1 update *OFFICIAL* Feedback Thread

[milnerpoint]

Not a chance I would sign him. Even for £160 a week, maybe if I was even lower down the Leagues.
The only reason he's on £160 a week now, is because he came up through the ranks in my Youth Team, while we were down in League 2.
And my Scout told me he could become a top League one defender. But times had changed now and I have better players in the squad etc, and he never improved.

Needless to say, that scout has been sacked!


If I got told no teams were interested, I would wait for their contract to expire, or release them. There'd be no probelm.
But when I get messages saying AI teams are interested, but are not willing to make an offer because the wage demands are too much, when a player is on £160 a week and their average wage is £800 a week, it does drive me a little mad.


The only save I could find was January 2019, so a year before.
But for what it's worth, With Shrewsbury his initial request was £300 and a £120 appearance fee, with a £350 loyality bonus.
But alot things could have changed in that year, and he could be requesting more etc. So I won't read anything into that.

And you do make a fair point about the player being crap etc.

But the AI doesn't think like this, if they think a player is crap.. there would be no interest at all on FM.
None of this, they are interested but for the wage demands stuff.

haha good choice on the scout!!
So a year ago he wanted double his wages with other bonuses, you can see where im going with this....
The game is telling you that those teams could be interested but because of his wages demands they are put off, most likely if you were to free him they would try and sign him.

[milnerpoint]

After reading the responses from SI regarding the removal of the editor, i still see no valid reason why it shouldnt be enabled. As i mentioned before people know the risks before using, if there was such a problem with the editor why has it seemingly been embraced in past versions? This change has ruined the game for a lot of people, i hope you come to realise that the editor is a major part of how a lot of people play the game, and hopefully restore it. That being said i am very much grateful for the other changes implemented and can tell you have worked hard to make the game better in the gameplay department.

Regards

they havent removed the editor, they have removed the ability to unlock a certain part of the editor that was never intended for use by the public, the fact someone has been able to figure out how to hack the game and passed on that info does not mean this was a part of the editor SI wanted us to use. From what i have read they have taken this decision after wasting a lot of time finding problems cause by people using this part of the editor, not just this year, but ever since that panel was hacked.

[Barside]

I'm starting to move towards agreeing that a difficulty setting of sorts should be included in the game, it is becoming blindingly obvious that there are now two types of FM gamer, those who want a realistic challenge (happy with changes made in 12.1) & those who would prefer a select, continue, win, select continue win, approach. (12.1 ruined my successful side).

Based on the threads pre & post patch both groups seem to be of equal voice so maybe it is time for SI to consider a FM Light option on the PC/MAC game that allows the player to move many of the off-pitch aspects in their favour by way of an easy button.

[themadsheep2001]

I'm starting to move towards agreeing that a difficulty setting of sorts should be included in the game, it is becoming blinding obvious that there are now two types of FM gamer, those that what a realistic challenge (happy with changes made in 12.1) & those who would prefer a select, continue, win, select continue win, ad infinitum approach (12.1 ruined my successful side).

Based on the threads pre & post patch both groups seem to be of equal voice so maybe it is time for SI to consider a FM Light option on the PC/MAC game that allows the player to move many of the off-pitch aspects in their favour by way of an easy button.

I agree about the FM light, but im sure this has been raised before, and that there was a reason why it wasnt feasible?

[TheWednesday]

I see, thanks for clearing that up. Its just that the editor i downloaded from steam now wont even open? i just get a green screen with all the text muddled up, will this be a temporary problem? or is this something relatively straight forward that can be fixed?

[Kilford]

I think it's more unrealistic than anything else, it seems every player in the squad takes no notice of team talks even when i say pressure is off they dont listen. Some players are like that in real life i understand but not a whole team.

[milnerpoint]

I see, thanks for clearing that up. Its just that the editor i downloaded from steam now wont even open? i just get a green screen with all the text muddled up, will this be a temporary problem? or is this something relatively straight forward that can be fixed?

thats a bug and something they will fix when they find the issue, the normal editor has not been taken away, just the advanced panel that we were never ment to have access too.

[TheWednesday]

Oh right i see, thanks for explaining that.

[Barside]

I agree about the FM light, but im sure this has been raised before, and that there was a reason why it wasnt feasible?

I've always poo pooed the idea but now I think it would be a wise commercial decision, not everyone plays the game in the same way I do & most certainly do not have the time to get the most out of FM these days.

If SI continue down the route of making the game ever more realistic (I will embrace more realism) then eventually they will create a game that is impractical for the many of their current customers, it feels blasphemous of me to say but FM might be too time consuming to make it a viable commercial product & will either become a Microsoft Flightsim (tech bore) game or WOW (geek/addict) title. The only problem is after the death of & tbh p&*$ poor marketing of FML the online subscription model is a non-starter.

Think that's as much as I can say without straying too far from the subject of patch feedback.

[milnerpoint]

Oh right i see, thanks for explaining that.

have you had a look at this?

http://community.sigames.com/showthr...een.-Need-Help

seems to be someone with the same issue and the instructions cleared it up.

[milnerpoint]

I've always poo pooed the idea but now I think it would be a wise commercial decision, not everyone plays the game in the same way I do & most certainly do not have the time that I do agree is required to get the most out of FM these days.

If SI continue down the route of making the game ever more realistic (I will embrace more realism) then eventually they will create a game that is impractical for the many of their current customers, it feels blasphemous of me to say but FM might be too time consuming to make it a viable commercial product & will either become a Microsoft Flightsim (tech bore) game or WOW (geek/addict) title. The only problem is after the death of & tbh p&*$ poor marketing of FML the online subscription model is a non-starter.

Think that's as much as I can say without straying too far from the subject of patch feedback.

Is FM not already a "geek" title? For my group of friends its very similar to WOW, those of us who play it, do so religiously, those who dont, have no interest at all in the game as its too complex for them to get into.

[themadsheep2001]

I've always poo pooed the idea but now I think it would be a wise commercial decision, not everyone plays the game in the same way I do & most certainly do not have the time that I do agree is required to get the most out of FM these days.

If SI continue down the route of making the game ever more realistic (I will embrace more realism) then eventually they will create a game that is impractical for the many of their current customers, it feels blasphemous of me to say but FM might be too time consuming to make it a viable commercial product & will either become a Microsoft Flightsim (tech bore) game or WOW (geek/addict) title. The only problem is after the death of & tbh p&*$ poor marketing of FML the online subscription model is a non-starter.

Think that's as much as I can say without straying too far from the subject of patch feedback.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Perhaps a dicussion worthy of its own thread?

[themadsheep2001]

Is FM not already a "geek" title? For my group of friends its very similar to WOW, those of us who play it, do so religiously, those who dont, have no interest at all in the game as its too complex for them to get into.

in some aspects, but it could be even more so

[Barside]

I know a good number of people are slowly moving away from FM or not getting the new version, each of the last few releases has resulted in another couple of mates deciding that they will buy it no more.

At some point those numbers will become too high for SI to ignore, obviously the sales figures for this year put a lie to this but that could have been down to the anti-piracy measures.

[milnerpoint]

Until those moving away out number those coming in i cant see SI making any huge changes, afterall there are plenty young folk with an interest in football with enough time to spend getting into FM. Same goes for any of these kinda games, WOW has been going forever and the numbers dont drop because as people get bored and leave, new people come in.

[Barside]

Players get injured all the time, it has nothing to do with the patch & if it did this place would be flooded with threads on the subject.

Was it FM07 or 08 that did actually have a bugged injury frequency?

[Frankchickens1]

Barside could there be an element that just your mates are growing up?
Although I bloody love FM and have been playing it for thousands of hours over the last 12 years, I do hope that there is a day when I have no interest in it. Certainly my friends give it up one by one as they realise how many hours disappear into the laptop. I think this could be as possible as because the game gets worse (as surely it gets better?)


Iv noticed, only since the latest patch, that the reputation of u20 teams has gone mental.
When I was Honduras boss my u20s played St. Pierre and Miquelon and it went down a famous victory.
I just had the same supporters play down famous victory line as my Paraguay u20 team defeated Guadeloupe

[Barside]

Barside could there be an element that just your mates are growing up?

I have no doubt that will be a factor but I know plenty of guys over 40 (I'm 35) who still play FM & do so because of the depth the game has to offer.

[Barside]

I think you'll find that I am very harsh of my criticism towards FM when it is deserved but I'll accept the fanboy jibe as whenever I post about an issue with the game & provide evidence to back up what I'm saying (see scouting bug thread, home-grown bug thread, memory leak thread) I do so in the hope that the game will be improved.

[Frankchickens1]

Dont worry I agree fully that its a great game. For all im saying I hope I wont be playing it later in life, its can very easily imagine I will be, especially as it continues to get better.

Anyhow - back to the patch feedback. I havent noticed any of the adverse effects noticed by others, just very specific bugs and niggles.
I would say I have noticed that all the opposition teams seems to be unhappier than they used to be, and its still a very low point total required to stay up in the EPL

[dudge7]

Apologies if this belongs in the bugs forum, but since the new patch my league table screen is not highlighting promotion/relegation zones, so looks like this - http://i.imgur.com/J98bx.png

It happened on a different save and there was a fix mentioned on the first page of this thread (refresh skin cache) which worked but when I went back to this save, which was started before the new patch, it's not making a difference. Obviously not a major issue but is there any other quick fix?

Cheers.

EDIT - Seems to have randomly sorted itself, never mind. Otherwise I have no issues with the patch.

[Burkcola]

Thanks for destroying my christmas play with this horrible patch, now my players gets unhappy when i told them they did a great match when i won over FSV Frankfurt at home as Eintracht Frankfurt with 4-0.

[szp]

I'm playing CM/FM since CM3 and have to say, that the 12.1 patch is the worst patch ever. Now i'm sure, that if SI will continue their "way to realism" i won't buy FM anymore.

[rafael_colorado]

do I need to start a new game for the "*Country* Hero" achievement to work? it would be really annoying if true, but I tried to load a save that was pre-promotion match, won it and nothing happened. and an already promoted save also didn't work.

[Kilford]

I play with Sunday League footballer reputation so i can understand it may be a bit harder in reality to motivate players however, when I miss every penalty in a shootout due to low morale and lack of motivation it really is ridiculous. It then says when i say i'm dissapointed 'demotivated' when the player wasnt motivated in the first place.


2 saves with Sporting Lisbon i've lost in the Europa League qualifiers vs Dundee and Slovan Bratislava without even scoring a goal. On the previous patch i would of brushed both teams aside with ease.

Sort it out SI as you've ruined what was a fabulous game.

[Zidaneisgod]

The new update has made a really enjoyable game into a frustrating and annoying game ,
in particular the lack of being able to adjust your transfer/wage budget while you have active offers for players .This has made the job of getting in the players you want or your favorites players before other clubs get them very annoying , why change it !! This is totally unrealistic and just down right annoying when you have to wheel and deal in the transfer market with a mid to lower placed league team
Also signing staff has become a nightmare now if you happen to go over the boards limit then sack someone to make space you have to wait way to long before you can re attempt to sign them
The teamtalks are now almost worthless very few players react as they did before the update brrrrrr
These are NOT changes for the better and tbh make me not want to play the game very disappointing .
I fail to understand why you have made these changes !!

What are you talking about. Teamtalks were a joke before. As if you can keep high morale by just praising everyone the whole time. People shouldnt take much notice of team talks. It should be a MINOR element of the game and not the all changing effective easy-mode cheat it was pre-patch

[JadaX]

I do agree with people moaning about team morale..either seems to be a lot harder to make any positive changes or it's broken

[Andy H]

It's not broken it's just been made a lot harder to maintain good morale and established players not responding to new managers let alone ones with a sunday league footballer reputation.

[Kilford]

It's more unrealistic than it was in the first place, that's the joke.

[Andy H]

Don't agree with that at all but your entitled to your opinion.

[Kilford]

I say it's unrealistic as players aren't motivated before kick-off then after the game they are demotivated? How can you be demotivated if you aren't motivated in the first place. Also Mourinho and AVB have shown in their first jobs they had no professional footballer experience and had the respect from the players and made a success. I missed every penalty in a shootout due to this.

[Barside]

Of course you can demotivate someone who is presently in a neutral frame of mind, I've seen it happen in the workplace.

As for Villas-Boas & Mourinho they were both heavily involved in football long before they took up a management positions, both were highly respected coaches & tacticians before they started on their managerial careers.

[milnerpoint]

Motivation isnt an on off thing, what you have seen is your initial team talk has not motivated your players to a good extent, your one at the end has had an adverse effect. Both the managers you have mentioned have build up a lot respect throughout the footballing world long before they took the posts they have now, they have not just arrived in football without anyone knowing who they are.

[wwfan]

I say it's unrealistic as players aren't motivated before kick-off then after the game they are demotivated? How can you be demotivated if you aren't motivated in the first place. Also Mourinho and AVB have shown in their first jobs they had no professional footballer experience and had the respect from the players and made a success. I missed every penalty in a shootout due to this.

You can't causally link a penalty shoot out to team talks. As for demotivation, it is relative, not an absolute.

[Kilford]

You cant even hold a team meeting before the start of the season to try raise morale, i've given up on the game as it's not fun so hopefully SI do what they are best at and that's adjust the game back to it's greatness.

Every player was on low morale even though i'd praised them all and took the pressure off them and all 3 blast the penalty miles wide. I then get four 0-0 draws against Dundee and Slovan Bratislava when i'm Sporting Lisbon using a tactic that on the previous patch was amazing. It's also a tactic with 50k downloads.

[GuitarMan]

You cant even hold a team meeting before the start of the season to try raise morale, i've given up on the game as it's not fun so hopefully SI do what they are best at and that's adjust the game back to it's greatness.

Every player was on low morale even though i'd praised them all and took the pressure off them and all 3 blast the penalty miles wide. I then get four 0-0 draws against Dundee and Slovan Bratislava when i'm Sporting Lisbon using a tactic that on the previous patch was amazing. It's also a tactic with 50k downloads.

And theres your problem. Its your tactics, Downloaded tactics are rarely exactly suited to your team

[Swindon69]

Quick question - if I purchase the game on disc will I have to download this patch?

[Kilford]

Yep when i've specifically chosen this team to suit this tactic. Also i've had success with this tactic on 5 other teams.

[milnerpoint]

Quick question - if I purchase the game on disc will I have to download this patch?

Yes because you will need to activate the game through steam, as soon as you do that it will start updating the game.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

It will be the games way of saying that the teams who are interested cannot afford the players wages at that time because of what i already said.

The news screen says its above what their willing to pay for that player, not that they have no money left to spend, i wouldnt touch that player as far as i could throw him, its good to see the AI has at least some sense when it comes to signing players.

Make your mind up.

[milnerpoint]

meh stay out of it, we have already been through that point without your help thanks

[Andy H]

Quick question - if I purchase the game on disc will I have to download this patch?

Yes as the game will update automatically.

[Swindon69]

Right I'll stick with '10 as I like to control this.

[Zidaneisgod]

REally amazed that people liked the fact you could get humped 4-0 and tell the players well played and their morale was fine.

I mean wtf. That was borderline a bug. Get used to this new and improved system. If you lose 4-0 then not even mourinho is going to be able to boost his teams morale by saying unlucky. Thats insane.

So many babies in this thread.

[Kilford]

It's when you win 3-0 and the players are taking no notice or uninterested. That's what is wrong with it.

[Zidaneisgod]

It's when you win 3-0 and the players are taking no notice or uninterested. That's what is wrong with it.

No its not. They get a boost from winning 3-0. Your team talk now just has less influence as it should because its ridiculous that team talks (which are mega lame) were so overlypowerful.

[Wiitastic]

I must always be 1 of the lucky 1's. even after installing the 12.1 patch the morale has been perfectly fine for me in my saved game.

[Kilford]

It's not realistic now and it wasnt before. Its just less fun now that's the differance for me.

[E.Gray]

I've never had so many different players sent off in the first half of the season.

[cerud]

I just finished my first season with the new patch. Has anyone found the "minor" corner ME tweaks...not so minor? I've gone from an average amount of goals from corners (around 15-18 a season) to zero...yep, zero. However, it's not just me; its affected my entire league as the highest team with goals from corners has 3 in a 46 game season.

Has anyone else noticed such issues?

Cheers,
cerud

[juvito2k]

Started a new save whit Porto, with the same tactic the brought me success in earlier patches, but in this is "amazing", currently in october 23 and the tactic familiarites level are all at maximum except the formation bar that is on awkard ???? Loss after loss, i brought a decent assistant with 20 motivation 17 man management 16 determination..............

Past experience Automatic!! Reputation National

What the hell is going on?

[omfgbbqpls]

I decided to start a new game, with a top team from the Netherlands (PSV Eindhoven) and started with as a manager with an international football career. My reputation is continental and I seem to struggle a lot too. After 17 matches we find ourselves in 8th place. I am seriously wondering what SI has done... 12.0.4 should be coming back ASAP, imo!

Edit: Oh, and I forgot.. There are a lot of own goals as well in this patch, it's ridiculous! And conceding goals in the first 5 minutes a lot too.

[Barkermush]

Ok I have a strange one, well I'm not sure if it's strange yet, that's why I'm asking here.

I signed Mats Rits on loan from Ajax for 3 months back in July ish, and he was just coming up to the end of his loan.
I'm very short on Midfielders, so I make an offer to extend the loan by 3 months. Ajax want a fee of £85k this time, but that's fine as I do need him here untill January at least.

The offer is accepted, Rits agrees to 'extend' his loan, I quote extend because just above the confirm transfer button, it says the transfer will go through on the 1/1/2012.

I assume the date the transfer goes through must be an error/incorrect, because extend a loan doesn't mean he will leave the club, return to his parent club, and then come back again in 2 months time. That's re-loaning somebody or whatever, not extending their current loan.

Anyway, I confirmed the deal, to find out that it will indeed go through in January.
He returned to Ajax, and on his profile screen it says 'joining Burnley on 1/1/2012'





I don't think the loan market is closed, I never noticed the inbox message you get to remind you about the loan/free market closing. I'm not sure wether it's something to do with the Dutch transfer rules?

I was only willing to pay the £85k because the transfer window is shut, and I need all the midfielders I can keep.
That £85k could have gone towards trying to sign permanetly in January or whatever, or I could have loaned somebody else for free.

I was willing to pay the £85k to extend his loan deal, and keep him here now for another 3 months. And with the way the inbox messages are worded, it does seem to make it out that this is what I am doing.

Is it a strange one? Or just something to do with the Dutch transfer rules?

Thanks.

[InsaneAim]

The team talk changes are GARBAGE. Started a new game and can't win a single game cause my players aren't responding to my team talks. Terrible.

EDIT: Anyone know how to revert to the other update on steam?

[EnIgMa_17k]

I've never had so many different players sent off in the first half of the season.

So much this! 4 red cards in 4 games after the patch. And so many yellows. I think my team had 1-2 red cards per season on average for the previous 3 seasons before the patch.
Maybe SI can put up a warning next time before they release a patch so that I can run home and switch steam to offline mode before it arrives.

[Suzie MUFC]

EDIT: Anyone know how to revert to the other update on steam?

Sadly, you can't. It's either reinstall with updates off and stick with release version, or latest patch.

It's the only thing I don't like about the game being Steam only. Normally when there's a patch-specific gamebreaking issue, you could just revert back to the previous patch, as with any other program or even a hardware driver, for goodness' sake. But not if you're on Steam.

[Barside]

Started a new save whit Porto, with the same tactic the brought me success in earlier patches, but in this is "amazing", currently in october 23 and the tactic familiarites level are all at maximum except the formation bar that is on awkward

I noticed the formation bar being low compared to other areas of match prep, still early in my season so hadn't given it too much thought, might be worth me keeping an eye on it.

[Marcussy]

Here's my feedback - this new patch is the final straw for me and last FM i'll be bothering with.

As you'll see from my post count and date joined, I've been on here a while but am not a frequent poster. I did however come on when this version was first released to say how brilliant I thought it was because I feel there's so much negativity on here at times, sometime unwarranted, sometimes not, that it's important to give praise where praise is due.

However, this new patch has totally now destroyed the game for me. Had told mates who hadn't yet bought it that it was probably the best version since it became FM and to go out and get it. Hopefully I won't be too late in telling them not to bother wasting their money. Loved the series ever since coming across CM 93 as a 12 year old and even since it became FM, I've been loyal and continued to buy it every year despite an up-down time while mate after mate have given up year after year. Liked 2005, hated 2006 and barely played it, liked 2007 a lot, hated 2008 and again barely played it, wasn't keen on 2009 but liked 2010 and then didn't like 2011 either.

So was really happy with this version - Cue another effing needless game-destroying patch and all of a sudden game goes to pot and I can't even switch back! I'm not going to bother running through all the reasons because they are all already mentioned in this thread and just add up to a game that just isn't enjoyable. At all.

I just can't stress how stupid, annoying and disappointing I think it is that you can't revert back to a former patch now or just uninstall/reinstall and are stuck with this rubbish.

Was really looking forward to getting stuck in over the xmas period but that's gone now and I've had enough frankly of one year enjoying the game, the next year not and now to one month enjoying the game, the next month not. Once again, I now have a game that I don't enjoy and as a consequence wont be playing again.

Cheers SI -After 18 years of loyalty, it's finally over. At least the wife will be happy anyway.....

[Marcussy]

Sadly, you can't. It's either reinstall with updates off and stick with release version, or latest patch.

It's the only thing I don't like about the game being Steam only. Normally when there's a patch-specific gamebreaking issue, you could just revert back to the previous patch, as with any other program or even a hardware driver, for goodness' sake. But not if you're on Steam.

So it is possible to at least go back to the release version? Were there any real game-breaking bugs with release version?

[rich_barnes]

Here's my feedback - this new patch is the final straw for me and last FM i'll be bothering with.

As you'll see from my post count and date joined, I've been on here a while but am not a frequent poster. I did however come on when this version was first released to say how brilliant I thought it was because I feel there's so much negativity on here at times, sometime unwarranted, sometimes not, that it's important to give praise where praise is due.

However, this new patch has totally now destroyed the game for me. Had told mates who hadn't yet bought it that it was probably the best version since it became FM and to go out and get it. Hopefully I won't be too late in telling them not to bother wasting their money. Loved the series ever since coming across CM 93 as a 12 year old and even since it became FM, I've been loyal and continued to buy it every year despite an up-down time while mate after mate have given up year after year. Liked 2005, hated 2006 and barely played it, liked 2007 a lot, hated 2008 and again barely played it, wasn't keen on 2009 but liked 2010 and then didn't like 2011 either.

So was really happy with this version - Cue another effing needless game-destroying patch and all of a sudden game goes to pot and I can't even switch back! I'm not going to bother running through all the reasons because they are all already mentioned in this thread and just add up to a game that just isn't enjoyable. At all.

I just can't stress how stupid, annoying and disappointing I think it is that you can't revert back to a former patch now or just uninstall/reinstall and are stuck with this rubbish.

Was really looking forward to getting stuck in over the xmas period but that's gone now and I've had enough frankly of one year enjoying the game, the next year not and now to one month enjoying the game, the next month not. Once again, I now have a game that I don't enjoy and as a consequence wont be playing again.

Cheers SI -After 18 years of loyalty, it's finally over. At least the wife will be happy anyway.....

Couldn't have said it better myself. Very pissed off right now and its not very often I reinstall a game without any patches because its better than the latest patched version but that is what I may have to do if its even possible. How do you turn off the auto updates in steam?

[CityAndColour]

I've got a team who I've led to two promotions in four seasons, never finished outside the top five, the entire squad has me as favoured personnel and my reputation exceeds that of the club. I now can't even express mild disappointment at a poor performance without morale plummeting across the board, regardless of form and morale beforehand.

[phnompenhandy]

Sadly, you can't. It's either reinstall with updates off and stick with release version, or latest patch.

Can you actually do that? I thought that when you activate FM12 it will update to the latest patch regardless.


Marcussy - I do sympathise with you. So much anger would be averted if we were simply informed that a patch is ready and had the option to upgrade or not. In fact that option is there - I use it; I keep Steam offline and I wait a few days to gauge the feedback before updating. In this case I'm waiting for Scout Genie, FMRTE and skin issues to be resolved. However, I'm not blowing my trumpet, saying 'Look at me, so clever to set it on off-line mode' - people who forked out for the product in good faith shouldn't be expected to jump through all sorts of hoops to play the game.

This dismissive "If you don't like it, don't play it" attitude is unacceptable. Yes, we were told on the box that we'd need to install Steam to activate the game - that is all. We were never told of the extent to which steam would try to take control. Some fanboys are saying "Don't blame SI, write to Valve" - to be fair no one from SI or SEGA are saying that - hopefully they will take steps to take firmer ownership of their own product and reduce these frustrations next year.

For myself - I'm lucky so far. Every few times I fire up my save I get a message saying Steam is down or reinstall the game or some nonsense. Until now I've managed to close everything down, faff about in task manager, waste 30-40 minutes and finally get my save going. But the day that I don't and Steam seriously screw me around will be the day that I uninstall and boycott FM until they tell Steam to do one and let us play the game we pay for in peace.

[Zidaneisgod]

Here's my feedback - this new patch is the final straw for me and last FM i'll be bothering with.

As you'll see from my post count and date joined, I've been on here a while but am not a frequent poster. I did however come on when this version was first released to say how brilliant I thought it was because I feel there's so much negativity on here at times, sometime unwarranted, sometimes not, that it's important to give praise where praise is due.

However, this new patch has totally now destroyed the game for me. Had told mates who hadn't yet bought it that it was probably the best version since it became FM and to go out and get it. Hopefully I won't be too late in telling them not to bother wasting their money. Loved the series ever since coming across CM 93 as a 12 year old and even since it became FM, I've been loyal and continued to buy it every year despite an up-down time while mate after mate have given up year after year. Liked 2005, hated 2006 and barely played it, liked 2007 a lot, hated 2008 and again barely played it, wasn't keen on 2009 but liked 2010 and then didn't like 2011 either.

So was really happy with this version - Cue another effing needless game-destroying patch and all of a sudden game goes to pot and I can't even switch back! I'm not going to bother running through all the reasons because they are all already mentioned in this thread and just add up to a game that just isn't enjoyable. At all.

I just can't stress how stupid, annoying and disappointing I think it is that you can't revert back to a former patch now or just uninstall/reinstall and are stuck with this rubbish.

Was really looking forward to getting stuck in over the xmas period but that's gone now and I've had enough frankly of one year enjoying the game, the next year not and now to one month enjoying the game, the next month not. Once again, I now have a game that I don't enjoy and as a consequence wont be playing again.

Cheers SI -After 18 years of loyalty, it's finally over. At least the wife will be happy anyway.....

Very dramatic. Someone just got a goal disallowed in the last minute and is raging on the forums. Haha

[Zidaneisgod]

Fm should be hard. It should be simple to play (please let us automate rubbish like training) and yet it should be hard to win or it gets boring. I have turned off auto update on steam for this game because I suspect SI will cave in and give back the moaners the easy mode they want. I am glad the team morale bug has gone. It was a joke you just had to say well played every game and then you basically won the league.

[lee_uk]

Fm should be hard. It should be simple to play (please let us automate rubbish like tactics) and yet it should be hard to win or it gets boring. I have turned off auto update on steam for this game because I suspect SI will cave in and give back the moaners the easy mode they want. I am glad the team morale bug has gone. It was a joke you just had to say well played every game and then you basically won the league.

agree with this and i also fear that SI may backtrack on this morale issue...i hope not cos for me its way better now..but will disable any steam auto-update anyway just to be safe

[PaulC]

There is no way we will backtrack and allow super high morale to be sustainable via obvious team talks and routine wins. Or for that matter, have the situation where super low morale is impossible to shake off as others have occasionally reported. The new balance is better for the game and I believe we will be vindicated on this.

At the same time, if there are examples of team talks where the response really was illogical and unexplainable by reputation differences etc please email me the pkm of the match and we will look at it and if needed tweak things for the next update.

Cheers,
Paul

[milnerpoint]

agree with this and i also fear that SI may backtrack on this morale issue...i hope not cos for me its way better now..but will disable any steam auto-update anyway just to be safe

Dont worry they are not going to undo all the work they put in just because of a few posters going completely over board.

[Reccy]

There is no way we will backtrack and allow super high morale to be sustainable via obvious team talks and routine wins. Or for that matter, have the situation where super low morale is impossible to shake off as others have occasionally reported. The new balance is better for the game and I believe we will be vindicated on this.

At the same time, if there are examples of team talks where the response really was illogical and unexplainable by reputation differences etc please email me the pkm of the match and we will look at it and if needed tweak things for the next update.

Cheers,
Paul

Winning matches and top of the league with Inter (who finished 12th last season, and were bottom when i took over) and the highest "Morale" i have got is fairly good.

Go going, pat yourself on the back

[lee_uk]

thats great news...i really cant stress how much better the game is for this morale change.in my opinion,i think the people that are complaining about it are the ones that wanted it easier to win matches.
now the morale management makes more sense and is more realistic.
im very happy now and for me FM12 is truly the best FM so far which surpasses my very enjoyable times with Cm01/02 and FM 2007

[Zidaneisgod]

There is no way we will backtrack and allow super high morale to be sustainable via obvious team talks and routine wins. Or for that matter, have the situation where super low morale is impossible to shake off as others have occasionally reported. The new balance is better for the game and I believe we will be vindicated on this.

At the same time, if there are examples of team talks where the response really was illogical and unexplainable by reputation differences etc please email me the pkm of the match and we will look at it and if needed tweak things for the next update.

Cheers,
Paul

Good post. I think what has happened is you removed what was basically an exploit (giving positive teamtalks meaning morale was ALWAYS SUPERB) and people are crying about it because they became dependent on it. It will obviously blow over. You get this all the time in FPS games. Whenevr there is a massively overpowered gun it gets nerfed and those who rely on it just cry.

[Zidaneisgod]

thats great news...i really cant stress how much better the game is for this morale change.in my opinion,i think the people that are complaining about it are the ones that wanted it easier to win matches.
now the morale management makes more sense and is more realistic.
im very happy now and for me FM12 is truly the best FM so far which surpasses my very enjoyable times with Cm01/02 and FM 2007

Def now the best FM in recent years. And I am a casual player, although a long term player. I stopped on the last patch because it lacked replayability. Now it has that.

[CityAndColour]

Good post. I think what has happened is you removed what was basically an exploit (giving positive teamtalks meaning morale was ALWAYS SUPERB) and people are crying about it because they became dependent on it. It will obviously blow over. You get this all the time in FPS games. Whenevr there is a massively overpowered gun it gets nerfed and those who rely on it just cry.

Posts like this are just as annoying as the baseless whinging.

I am 100% in agreement that it was far too easy to keep morale high. However my issue, and it seems a lot of other people's (or criers, as you so succinctly put it) too, is that it's now too far the other way, so you have a situation where players aren't even responding to team talks at all, and even great form doesn't consistently get morale any higher than 'good'.

[milnerpoint]

You dont need moral better than good to win games tho, since the patch i have lost 3 games in 6 months, moral has never been higher than good/very good at a push, it has not effected my teams performances, you just have to think a bit more, the game is no longer a click and continue game, as it should be.

[CityAndColour]

You dont need moral better than good to win games tho, since the patch i have lost 3 games in 6 months, moral has never been higher than good/very good at a push, it has not effected my teams performances, you just have to think a bit more, the game is no longer a click and continue game, as it should be.

Based on what you've posted, can you think of any reason to have 'superb' morale in the game then?

I'm consistently winning since the patch too, which is why it bemuses me that I can't get morale any higher than 'good' on a regular basis, and watch it drop to 'okay' as soon as I so much as draw a game or choose the wrong team talk (such as "you were great!" after a player scores a hat-trick).

[lee_uk]

but if your still winning and getting results..whats the problem..why do you need superb morale?

[GuitarMan]

Superb should be reserved for overachieving teams, teams who have just won something they never could have seen themselves winning imo. If that isn't reserved for situations like that, then where is your ultra super morale for situations like that. I do believe super should be for the rare occasions.

[singtelsux]

too bad the most response gained here is not from the developers, but from among customers themselves.

[lee_uk]

Superb should be reserved for overachieving teams, teams who have just won something they never could have seen themselves winning imo. If that isn't reserved for situations like that, then where is your ultra super morale for situations like that. I do believe super should be for the rare occasions.

have to agree with this...similar to a player getting a 10 rating..how often do you see it?

[milnerpoint]

Based on what you've posted, can you think of any reason to have 'superb' morale in the game then?

I'm consistently winning since the patch too, which is why it bemuses me that I can't get morale any higher than 'good' on a regular basis, and watch it drop to 'okay' as soon as I so much as draw a game or choose the wrong team talk (such as "you were great!" after a player scores a hat-trick).

Over achieving, ie promotion with a team not expected, European success with a team not expected, beating an EPL team with a lower league team, things like that, winning 3-0 against bottom of the league should not put your team up to superb moral, neither should going on winning streask of 3/4 games like what was happening.

[Reccy]

Superb should be reserved for overachieving teams, teams who have just won something they never could have seen themselves winning imo. If that isn't reserved for situations like that, then where is your ultra super morale for situations like that. I do believe super should be for the rare occasions.

Based on this, Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City and (maybe, depending on your RL View) Arsenal will NEVER achieve "Super" morale unless they win the Champs League?? Winning he EPL is something these expect and wont be overachieving if they win it?

[CityAndColour]

So if a team over-achieves and wins a title, they're going to be happier and in higher spirits than if the favourites do it?

[CityAndColour]

but if your still winning and getting results..whats the problem..why do you need superb morale?

Because it doesn't make any sense to me that I can't keep my players morale above 'good' even when piling up the wins. Just because I'm winning doesn't mean I should be ignoring something that I feel has clearly been tweaked too far.

[milnerpoint]

Of course they would, do you not think Everton would be happier than United if they won the league, they would be completely over the moon, whereas United players will be happy they have achieved what was expected of them.

[milnerpoint]

Because it doesn't make any sense to me that I can't keep my players morale above 'good' even when piling up the wins. Just because I'm winning doesn't mean I should be ignoring something that I feel has clearly been tweaked too far.

If your winning then whats the problem?

[CityAndColour]

Of course they would, do you not think Everton would be happier than United if they won the league, they would be completely over the moon, whereas United players will be happy they have achieved what was expected of them.

No matter if you're the favourite or an underdog, winning a title with your mates is one of the greatest feelings you can have. I can only assume you've never played a team sport in a strong side before.

If your winning then whats the problem?

So because I'm winning I shouldn't have an issue with what I feel is a flaw in the game?

[Reccy]

Because it doesn't make any sense to me that I can't keep my players morale above 'good' even when piling up the wins. Just because I'm winning doesn't mean I should be ignoring something that I feel has clearly been tweaked too far.

Exactly, and its also gone as far as me being Inter Milan, purchasing a player in January, he was delighted with the move (from Ascoli Series B, 4.5 star potential) he joined with abysmal morale. How?? Joining a High Flying team, was actually incorporated into the first team (as injuries played a part) and preformed well above expectations and his morale moved between poor and only became fairly good when my team scrapped a 3-0 lead at HT to draw 4-4.

**Shrugs**

[Dagski]

Still i can't change the u19 team. The squad filter shows the correct teams now, but i still can't control the U19 and even though the youth trialists are gone, the filter button is still there.

[milnerpoint]

No matter if you're the favourite or an underdog, winning a title with your mates is one of the greatest feelings you can have. I can only assume you've never played a team sport in a strong side before.



So because I'm winning I shouldn't have an issue with what I feel is a flaw in the game?

You assume completely wrong, i have been on both sides and i can easily say winning when an underdog feels much better than achieving what is expected from you.
Why is it a flaw if your winning? Do you expect all your players to be 100% happy all the time just because you win games?

[CityAndColour]

Exactly, and its also gone as far as me being Inter Milan, purchasing a player in January, he was delighted with the move (from Ascoli Series B, 4.5 star potential) he joined with abysmal morale. How?? Joining a High Flying team, was actually incorporated into the first team (as injuries played a part) and preformed well above expectations and his morale moved between poor and only became fairly good when my team scrapped a 3-0 lead at HT to draw 4-4.

**Shrugs**

My captain has just scored seven goals in three games (from midfield), leading the team to three wins and a six point lead in the title race with seven to play. His morale has rotating between 'okay' and 'good' in this period. We're also underdogs for the title.

But it's obviously not an issue as I am winning.

[CityAndColour]

Why is it a flaw if your winning? Do you expect all your players to be 100% happy all the time just because you win games?

I'd expect my first team players to maintain high morale if we keep winning and get closer and closer to the title.

[alexyfoot]

Okey, first impressions - team talks are vastly improved so much more realistic now. I don't enjoy corners too much - just got beaten by Macabi (playing with Valencia) 3:1 with 3 goals from corners...overall results are realistic, especially knowing I have started as a Sunday League guy at a top club. If only corners weren't so bad - or it may be my players, only 3 of them are any good at marking...Corners goals ratio is now about 40-60 even though I tend to be the more attacking side in most of the games, so it makes me think you went a bit too far in aiding the AI - a step in the right direction but in my opinion but a tad too far - I think the truth is somewhere in the middle between 12.0 and 12.1 for realistic outcomes.

Actually, league-wise there isn't that issue with corners - no one scores there, I guess Macabi are too good in the air as they have scored 4 of the 5 against me from corners in 14 games, lol.

[milnerpoint]

I'd expect my first team players to maintain high morale if we keep winning and get closer and closer to the title.

They have a high moral, anything about average is a high moral, your players are just not reaching the crazy moral levels they were before.

[lee_uk]

my god!!..why the hang up with morale...its been fixed cos it was TOO EASY to maintain and your still winning matches anyway...if its a flaw in your eyes,so be it,but its not affecting the way you play obviously...move on

[BSX]

With latest patch the internal game difficulty has been increased. With internal I mean the ability to manage your players and staff.

Is this realistic??
Is it realistic that when winning matches your players are reacting negatively on almost every interaction ??

Is this an improvement?
what a joke

[GuitarMan]

With latest patch the internal game difficulty has been increased. With internal I mean the ability to manage your players and staff.

Is this realistic??
Is it realistic that when winning matches your players are reacting negatively on almost every interaction ??

Is this an improvement?
what a joke

As has been posted many times, it was broken before when a 3-4 match run could keep your players locked into SUPERB morale for the rest of the season... Now, its a lot harder to get above good/very good morale (as it should be).

How often would you ever describe your morale in your work place at the extremes or Superb, or Very Poor? Yeah, i thought it would be pretty rarely too as such the players morale now hits these extremes very very rarely, and will spend most of its time between poor - good without hitting the extremes.

[Kilford]

Is there even a way to make team talks work? When i lose it's demotivated/takes no notice/loses focus, when i draw it's the same and when I win even against the bigger clubs it's still the same outcome... How can i raise morale and get team talks to work?

[Graham FM]

So much this! 4 red cards in 4 games after the patch. And so many yellows. I think my team had 1-2 red cards per season on average for the previous 3 seasons before the patch.
Maybe SI can put up a warning next time before they release a patch so that I can run home and switch steam to offline mode before it arrives.

same problem with my game after the patch my striker been sent off 4 times in less then a year, ( no red card before the patch 3 seasons).. at least 5 to 6 yellow cards a game too

[Reccy]

As has been posted many times, it was broken before when a 3-4 match run could keep your players locked into SUPERB morale for the rest of the season... Now, its a lot harder to get above good/very good morale (as it should be).

How often would you ever describe your morale in your work place at the extremes or Superb, or Very Poor? Yeah, i thought it would be pretty rarely too as such the players morale now hits these extremes very very rarely, and will spend most of its time between poor - good without hitting the extremes.

Yeah, just like signing a hot prospect from a series B team who's playing with the U20's and then moves to a Huge Italian Club (Inter Milan) and is in an absolutely abysmal mode for this huge move, onto which is then drafted into the first team and performs exceptionally well (for a 16 year old) and is praised for it, for him to absolutely bemoan this and goes back into an abysmal mood. His Morale never peaked past "Fairly Good" but being "Poor" on average.

Super cool feature, super cool..

[alexyfoot]

If you find it hard to motivate players, choose a higher starting reputation...that is why it's there. The problem with 12.0 was that even with crap reputation, team talks were way too easy. and no, it's not a joke, it is much more realistic now.

[Marcussy]

Very dramatic. Someone just got a goal disallowed in the last minute and is raging on the forums. Haha

Err... nice try at the humour but no. Someone was playing a game that they had paid good money for and really enjoyed and now that game has just changed without that someone having any choice in the matter. Not about being easier or harder or winning or losing but about the basic playability of a game that I bought changing without my say-so.