Changes look excellent, glad to see one of my issues being dealt with too
Changes look excellent, glad to see one of my issues being dealt with too
All of FMUpdates' release topics on this forum now have disclaimers asking users not to report bugs using our files to the official bugs forum.
issues with players automatically refusing to go on loan to feeder clubs is supposed to have been addressed, but I'm still having exactly the same problems as I was when I first reported the issue here:
Was this addressed with changes that should take effect directly after applying the patch - in which case it's not working -, or should I expect to have to play through some time before my players eventually become willing to go out on loan?
Last edited by RazvanRat; 16-12-2011 at 22:41.
I appreciate the hard work that has been put into this update, however the editor that i normally use to update squads, add missing players and update history's for my own save now will not load, i just get the green screen with the manager image that has been mentioned previously. I respect that you may have had problems regarding editor files causing crashes to peoples saves etc, but i think by now people understand the risks when beginning to use the editor and a simple message that SI wont be able to sort any issue caused by the program would have been good enough, rather than removing the whole editor, and stopping people from playing the game in a way that they would like.
Thanks again for the hard work, there are definately postives from the update, and apologies if i have misunderstood any situation regarding the editor.
Should CPU usage be at 100% constant? Since the patch, my system seems to be struggling when just selecting a team!
Last edited by Chicha_14; 16-12-2011 at 22:26.
The following extract from the changelist has me confused;
- When transfer listing a player by request, the player will no longer be unhappy about their transfer request been rejected.
Is this a typo? If a player requests being transfer listed I would expect them to be unhappy if I rejected the request.
I've also not seen any reference to toning down the frequency of agents/players asking for a new contract after a transfer bid is rejected, has this seen a tweak?
Last edited by Barside; 16-12-2011 at 22:28.
Got'ya, makes sense now.
this STILL hasnt been fixed, whenever united play a team in all white they have red socks!! *sigh*
You said that it was infeasible to try and chase down potential edits that caused crashes (bug tickets), so you have disabled this ability. Therefore you are aiming to reduce the amount of effort and bug tickets raised as a result of custom edits.
It doesn't matter if it wasn't released as an official feature (there are an infinite number of things in the game that were never announced). It is a mechanism that users have found that has produced many interesting databases and edits for the community as a whole.
You could go a million steps further and ensure that all your configuration files are encoded so that nobody can edit them to create custom databases (editing XML files isn't a "feature"), but this is of course going to provoke more outrage.
If the ticket and support levels are unmanageable, just:
1) Add a warning to the advanced editor noting that SI do not support this feature and that support cannot be guaranteed on the same level as "standard FM"
2) Every time someone edits a database using the advanced editor, mark the database edit as "dirty". When a "dirty" database is loaded into FM, pop up a warning message saying that this database uses unsupported features and that crashes cannot be supported by SI, and that support needs to come from the community
You should be encouraging hacking of your products, really. I'm sure it's the hacking of databases that led to the competition creator in FM10, as users wanted to create databases beyond what was capable in FM09 and its previous versions. The hacking of competitions will drive the editor.
I'm so glad that I do not get involved in using the editor, I do see where SI are coming from though.
Having enough resources to support the modding community is a tricky financial balance, what percentage of the entire FM community are actively involved in the mod scene, either by creating or using unofficial downloads? If for the sake of discussion 5% of FM gamers regularly use 3rd part mods then surely SI's expenditure in this area should not exceed 5%, maybe 10% as mods can as you right point out become unofficial testers.
There is another issue that I can see & this takes FM out of the normal modding scene that exists for many other games, the problem is that of licensing agreements that have been signed for SI to use the various leagues, player & all other manner of data. If I was in the business of selling any form of football related image license to a games developer I'd be making damn sure that they [SI] were not proving end-users with a tool that could mess around with the data my client owns & has agreed to let them use.
Last edited by Barside; 16-12-2011 at 22:54.
The Premier League owns the copyright to the Premier League table and its statistics, but does not necessarily own the copyright to a table where I calculate 5 points for a win, 3 for a draw, and -1 for a loss.
I believe that the EULA (this was the case in FM08, probably is for FM12) states that SI own all modifications made to the game anyway.
In addition, this prevents imaginary competitions from being created via the advanced editor - stuff that doesn't exist in reality and therefore isn't owned by anyone (outside of the EULA).
If a tool that is used to create imaginary competitions can also be used to alter real life competitions then any licensing issues will have to be taken into consideration, unfortunately neither of us will ever know the full terms of each & every agreement which I why my comments were purely speculation.
I'm very grateful for the debate going for the Advanced Rules. I feel as though this is something SI should embrace. You were the ones who came up with it, your own in game competitions use it. So it's obvious that it is going nowhere any time soon.
These files make a great game even greater, even some people in SI admire these files. I'm sure Gripper would have something to say, but if he wishes to reserve his opinions then that is fine with me.
When I found out this morning that the Advanced Editor had been permanently disabled my heart immediately sunk. I have poured so much of my own time into producing files for the community and so have many others. Thousands of people use files created using the Advanced Rules on FM, possibly every day. I wish I had more time in the day to help out people who are learning how to create competitions with the Advanced Rules.
It's hard to believe that it was never intended for us to use. It must have been intended. But it's not like you're in a Hot Coffee situation.
I don't wanna play the bad boy, but if this really is the official feedback thread :
- IMO the new patch does much more harm than sth else (see bugs-threads if you want)
-- I'd like to go back to previous version if possible... ?
- I've been playing FM since 2007
-- Since then the community has always been waiting for patches in order to fix a lot of bugs.
--- But unfortunately I remember that each patch has always caused more problems instead of fixing previous issues... disappointnesses as a result...
---- Now I have been waiting for 5 years for a patch/game which should fix bugs without causing extra harm; but it seems like that patch/game will never come...
----- Personnaly I think it's unacceptable that this trend goes on, and think I'm near to close 'my FM career'
If I should summarize why I'm as disappointed it should be this:
- a very big part of what we see on FM is just there on the UI (user interface) and has no real/logical effect on the game
- the better your scout is, the less stars he gives for a scouted player
- no matter how good your assistant is (you may even edit its hidden attributes like eg. squad rotation to 20/20) he will still do ridiculous things and even with 20 for squad rotation he won't rotate the squad at all.
SI has added a lot of new features since 2007, but unfortunately their biggest objective has always been the visual part. Everything what happens in the background has always been at random.
just my opinion.
- Reduced memory usage a small amount, for best affects start a new game.
I am currently about to start my second season so starting again is not really a big deal but wouldn't want to unless I get some benefit.
It's so vastly different between 'not announcing a feature' which is coded into the game, and something else which has to be hacked to become operational. We can't spend time adding 'warnings' and other such things to something which I'm afraid we have never wanted to, nor ever have supported. It was not created for outside use and should not be used as such.
All the things you suggest we do to support the advanced editor (something which we've made clear we don't want to do) such as adding a warning message or marking it as dirty, would take up valuable coding time which could be used on other areas of the game. I'm sorry, the final word on this we've made our decision regarding the advanced editor and that, as said, is final.
Any feedback on the transfer AI yet, fellow FM-players?
From what I can see, it wasn't explicitly mentioned in the changelog?
this thread (started by an SI employee, too) exist? Or why do we have the ability to edit skin XML files?
If editing a configuration file violates the EULA, you may as well shut down the Editors Hideaway... Plenty of tools there involve modifying some configuration files.
I do not have FM12 so do not have access to the EULA, but in FM08, at least, it says that SI merely owns the modifications too.
What happens to the real issues that turn up in a game using an advanced database but then have to be dismissed because SI can't justify the time spent trawling through the code of what is, effectively, a hacked game?
The XML unpacker does not unpack the editor files for editing as far as I know.
Note that the thread you linked to is from 5 years ago when the FMF compiler (as I believe it's called) didn't exist.
Do I have to start a very low reputation league to get the sunday league footballer reputation? I normally only start the top 4 leagues of Europe.
You can jump straight into the Manchester United job with a Sunday league reputation if you wish. Don't expect to win much, though.
After i have read this discussion
I can understand the view (Neils View) of SI belonging to the Advanced Panel - and i guess he is right
But intended or not :
I am glad that you at least are not so evil and completely have removed this "feature"
And HAIL to Magicmastermind the Great
Last edited by ThomasH; 17-12-2011 at 01:25.
I know this has been rasied a few times, but despite being top half of EPL i can still always ask for a parent club and never a feeder club, and I only have 2 feeder clubs atm
It involves the modification of a configuration file, which has been given the OK by an SI employee...
This isn't what is happening in the case of the editor - the editor is being changed so that the database can be edited in ways that are not supported. I suppose the equivalent for the game itself would be opening up a button which allows you a new transfer option in addition to Transfer/Enquiry/Loan etc. I'm sure SI probably have a debug tool that allows transferring players immediately between clubs, and for that "feature" to be active would be similar to what is happening with the Advanced tab in the editor.
I may have got a bit muddled there but I'm sure you can work out what I'm trying to get across.
Created a new save & started as an unemployed manager with Sunday league experience, 1st job offer was from Go Ahead @ £1500pw because my rep was Regional.
This is also part of the save that allowed Barcelona & Villereal to be drawn in the same Champions League group, excellent work by the dev & testing teams.
I'm starting to think if SI need to scrap looking for coders with an interest in football & ask for avid followers of football with an interest in coding.
Last edited by Barside; 17-12-2011 at 01:43.
Getting the job and getting the players to actually trust you are two very different things.
You're not listening are you? Regional rep is too high for Sunday League starting experience & will be on a par with if not greater than many of the players, there are 3 steps lower on the scale that have been skipped (local/obscure/unproven).
That post was in response to:
I'm saying that enabling the advanced editor involves editing an XML file as well (as detailed here: http://fmupdates.com/fluxbb/viewtopic.php?id=72) - if this is against the EULA, most of the threads in the Editors Hideaway need to be deleted!We really should not be encouraging hacking of our products - anyone that does so is actually in breach of the licensing agreement.
I had played FM since this game came out and I am very disapointed with your work.I will never play this game again.and you lost one more customer.THANKS AND GOOD BY
The XML files that you are allowed to edit are made available using a tool SI provide.
The XML file needed to make the changes to the editor are not made available to you to edit. There is no SI-provided tool that allows you access to it.
Now I'm sure you're smart enough to understand the difference, but I'm also sure you're stubborn enough to dismiss this and move on to some other point that you will attempt to twist to support your agenda.
It gets very tiresome.
Can't tell if someone from SI has already answered or not, but it's outside of my knowledge base.
Best way to get an answer would be to bring it up in the bugs forum as then it won't get missed. It's easy to miss stuff in this thread.
I'm just reading off this (I don't have FM12, after all) that tells me to enable the "adva" thingy, you just need to change an XML file... And to enable the debug menu and edit in-game rules, you can use the Resource Archiver, extract some files, then mess with them.
Last edited by x42bn6; 17-12-2011 at 02:17.
Why did you delete the second part of your post?
The Resource Archiver is for unpacking the XML files that determine how skins display.
I direct you back to the Advanced Editor/Debug Transfer comparison I mentioned earlier.
Most people will not even notice reputation but if folk start seeing their Manchester United side being drawn with Manchester City there would be all kinds of NSFW words used on the forum.
The post here suggests that all the files are available right now, and if you want to edit some competitions, you can extract comps.fmf using the bundled Resource Archiver and mess around with some settings.
I therefore don't know what you mean by "There is no SI-provided tool that allows you access to it.".
Again, you're being obtuse and clearly just arguing for the sake of it - you've admitted you have no knowledge of what's involved so why are you still arguing?
I'm not actually going to waste any more time trying to explain this any further, it's pretty straight forward and I've already explained the differences to you.
Because i do not have any patient to play it any more...that nine(9) matchs are very importante to have some good result and for building players skills!! ect.....!!!!!!
#534 was me quoting Neil Brock on the licensing issue, not whether SI would support it or not. In that post, I couldn't care less if SI supported or not. It is a post about licensing, pure and simple.
There isn't much difference between modifying the editor and modifying the game. Unless the editor and game have different EULAs, I'd imagine everything is covered under one EULA that pops up when you install the game.
Most, if not all, EULAs, carry a clause stating that the likes of modification and reverse-engineering of the software is invalid.
At its most basic level, skin editing involves editing an XML file. Editor modifications involve editing an XML file. Certainly, the editor produces a file that could break the game, but I don't see that as terribly relevant from a licensing point of view.
Neil stated that hacking the game breaks the licensing terms. However, if editing the editor to enable the advanced rules involves "hacking", then pretty much any editing of an XML file breaks the licensing terms. This means that custom skins break licensing terms, and that anyone editing an XML file to create a custom database is breaking the licensing terms.
The notion of an .fmf file is irrelevant, to me. An .fmf file is essentially a collection of configuration files bundled together like a zip folder. This post suggests comps.fmf can be edited to modify the editor and that this tool is bundled within FM12. That post also mentions ways of editing the editor, in the same way that columns can be edited with an XML file.
I don't see where I'm missing the point. In order to enable the advanced rules and debugging things in the editor, you edit XML files. In order to create a skin, you need to edit XML files. This post does not imply anything about needing a third-party tool to extract .fmf files.
I am perhaps guilty of linking to a thread that is too old, but column editing has always been about tinkering with XML files in my memory, so while the instructions may not be correct to the letter, the spirit of XML files being edited applies.
Last edited by x42bn6; 17-12-2011 at 02:44.
Please stop trolling the thread. Thanks.
IMO, SI has failed this time.
The reputation of the human manager is only excuse that the AI practicing different results depends to human manager reputation.
If a manager using a same tactic and same approach to his team, different reputation should only affect HIS OWN team responding to the instruction, DEFINITELY not the behavior or the difficulty of AI.
Please consider this before you start ruining the series.
The changes in reputation affect how your team reacts to you.
That is why the AI becomes more difficult to combat - the AI teams actually trust the majority of their managers.
I just replied to one of Neil Brock's posts where he suggested it was against licensing terms. (*)
Then you came in with this post that missed the point entirely. You talked about how something was supported, and something else wasn't. Nothing to do with licensing.
If me essentially saying "you're missing the point" is trolling... Because, essentially, you did miss the point of my post (marked * above), which was about licensing.
You don't have to respond to me if you don't want to. Just note that I quoted Neil Brock to begin with, not you.
I have to agree with Acktar, you are trolling & like many trolls you're using a single phrase to twist a discussion & manoeuvre it in a direction that creates an argument you think is winnable.
Just like the Steam thread the decision has been made & no matter how much you type on the issue it looks unlikely that the decision will be reversed.
Why is my player unhappy about the team is underachieving? We just won the Charity Shield and haven't played the first league game! Bug
Why oh why oh why?!! Why is it when a new patch comes, it fixes some things then starts problems else where. Having random things happening and the old crash dumps. I was having no problems now can't play my game.
Do we not receive a message in our inbox when a player gets injured? I have just found out via the squad screen. Yet there is no news of it in my inbox. The injured is a pulled hamstring, from the last game....yet no news of the injury. Surely this cannot be correct?
I always receive injury news in my inbox so maybe you have filters set up or something like that?
SI have disillusioned some of the most creative minds that love the FM series. The same reaction would be given by those who create skins if SI disabled the ability to do so. You left us alone for two years and now you have taken away the very reason some of us have bought FM. The sad thing is there aren't too many of us, so even if we stopped buying the game it wouldn't make much difference to you.
Your efforts to disable the Advanced Rules has been poor, if you don't want us to use it, don't include it. Be aware though that the custom content created for the game will not reach the high standard that we aim for and that is visible in the levels 7&8 England release.
personally feel the change on the rep and its affects is too durastic, sure, change it a bit so results fluctuate. but making it so your team will not perform even though a team talks makes everyone have "looks motivated" is absurd. morale drops so bad, if you go in 0-0 at half time!
my manager has won 10 trohpies in 5 years, 75% win so technically i should have the 'Trust' of my players. so im just baffled by it
im confused where do i download the patches for the cd version ?
All patches, including the CD version, come through Steam, which you are using to run the game anyway. You will need to go online with it to do so.
Edit: I may add - the more you leave Steam offline anyway, the less problems you will have. Me, I never let Steam get online unless I know that there's an update available that I want.
Last edited by thomit; 17-12-2011 at 14:39.
I just seen something today...
Michael Essien has just been picked for Ghana to play in the African Nations even though he's out injured for 10 weeks with cruciate ligament damage
Has this always happened,or is it since the patch?
Avast you scurvy dog!
Don't take advanced panel out!
Normal editor is ridiculous (dozens of rules can not be implemented) and if you won't improve it, leave advanced panel as "option", or remove competition editor totally.
P.S. You could have removed it from FM2011 as one in FM2010 was used, you didn't. You could have removed it from FM2012 as one in FM2011 was used, you didn't. Taking it away in FM2012 patch is just sad.
After applying the update, finally got it working, there is one player in my team that whenever I click on him it causes the game to crash. Is there anyway I can sort this without having to start a new game? The player in question is a re-gen if that makes any difference. Thank - you
Post about it in the bugs forum, please.
Why have these arrows changed, and what do they mean? I've got them on most of my players now having just updated, and most of those downward/upward arrows don't correspond to a dropped/risen attribute at all.
I am very confused about the drop /risen attributes as well. Last week most of them are up, next week most of them are down. I did not do any change in training and his morale neither changed.
Same here graves. http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/...cket/Messi.png
Edit: Also Mats Hummels learnt to mark tightly via the player interaction in a matter of days........
Last edited by nev147; 17-12-2011 at 21:11.
i have never once seen those arrows.
maybe it is there to replicate form? players can have off days, and good days.
playing as east stirlingshire, i was wearing my home kit (balck and white stripes) against a team wearing black and yellow, in the exact same design, that might need looking at.
I have some very annoying issues with this update.
1. In the tactics menu it has become very difficult to drag and drop players. I can not click and hold on the name of a player to drag him. Also it is almost impossible to drag a player into a new position on the pitch. Sometimes I click and hold a player to drag and when I drop him on the pitch a completely different player is put in the position.
2. While playing games in TV mode the team ratings list is jumbled and not in the order of the tactic.
These things are really annoying.
So now i have to wait an hour and a half to play my FM12, great
They're really confusing since the 12.1.0 patch, though, as the screenshot of Messi shows. I get the feeling that the arrows are broken now and don't accurately reflect development of attributes.