View Poll Results: Is this a good idea, and do you want SI to introduce it?

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Thread: New Feature Suggestion - Staff Instructions (Staff Roles and Duties)

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb New Feature Suggestion - Staff Instructions (Staff Roles and Duties)

    If you do vote can you please proved constructive feedback as to why you have voted "Yes" or "No" this will assist in getting SI to seriously to think about the feature & keep the topic on the first page so more people will provide their feedback.

    Regards

    SI Board,

    I originally suggested this towards the end of life for FM11 however since then SFraser has passed on (R.I.P. ) and cannot elaborate further, however I did like his theory behind hiring staff to fulfill certain requirements such as;
    • Club Psychologist,
    • Club Tactician,
    • Team Manager (Reserves, Youth, etc.),
    • Scout Management (Head, General), and
    • Physio Management (Head, General)
    With your previous introduction of Player Roles/Duties it does make it easier to search and recruit certain players to fulfill a role, however by not allowing Staff to have Roles/Duties it does make finding a specific staff member harder to find. For clubs like Real Madrid, Barcelona, Manchester United, Manchester City, etc. they will get the best staff that could fulfill different roles, however for small clubs (not the LLM approach) they will try and look for a staff member to fulfill a specific need.

    Some other sites like TAS do posts like The Perfect/Lower League Backroom, however they are about staff members and not staff attributes. You can never find a guide based on the staff attributes and I know that people are going to say what about the Category Coaches, this might be fine for generic coaches however this doesn't assist with the Team Policy section in FM12 in which you have certain people in charge of your Reserves Team, Youth Team, and Scouting Reports.

    IN PRACTICE
    1. Hire a Club Psychologist (or Club Tactician) as an Assistant Manager,
    2. Hire a Club Tactician (or Club Psychologist) as a Reserve Team Manager,
    3. Hire a Club Tactician (or Club Psychologist) as a Youth Team Manager,
    4. Hire specific Category Coaches to fulfill your Training needs,
    5. Hire a Head Scout to oversea all Scouting Practices (this may include suggestions of hiring additional scouts to do the grunt work), and
    6. Hire a Head Physio to oversea all Physio Practices (this may include suggestions of hiring additional physios to do the grunt work).
    As mentioned if we know the key attributes to create a staff member as any of the above then recruiting for that type of person would be easier for the beginners/intermediates of the FM Series (we all know people that have mastered the series might not like/use these, however you never see them sharing their theorems based on this or similar approach).

    Regards

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    To vote and provide feedback on my general discussion topic to introduce Staff Roles and Duties into FM Series please click on my provided link to do so http://bit.ly/u8WoDS
    Last edited by b.paterson; 15-11-2011 at 23:19. Reason: Minor changes to post...

  2. #2
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    i like the idea quite a bit.

    i put a lot of energy and a lot of arithmetic into selecting my staff, and would love it if the game offered more ways to organize.

    the head scout idea meshes nicely with the new scouting pool feature, too. i usually manage youth and reserves myself (to make sure that key youth players get playing time and good enough ratings to improve) but in principle i do hire tacticians and psychologists. can't think of any more roles, but i would like to bring back the notion of assigning a setpiece coach (i do like the new match preparation setup, but i think a setpiece coach whose attributes affected your individual setpiece takers and collective setpiece preparation would be a useful addition. maybe even different coaches for different setpieces, at least for a big club). another role that might be interesting is a 'sidekick' role, like Platt to Mancini. not an assistant manager, but more of a sounding board/advisor, with the ass man handling the logistics more.

    also, on another thread, the role of director of football was suggested. i think this could be interesting, and perhaps be split from your role as manager (if you manage to get hired for both roles, only then can you negotiate contracts, etc yourself). i think this is not unrealistic; Ferguson seems to have a lot of control (right down to choosing the airport limousine to pick up players) whereas Mancini gives Marwood et al a shopping list. your rep vs the club's rep could determine how likely you are to get hired for both roles at once...

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    @zeusbheld,

    Love some of your suggestions, these could be added to the Roles/Duties listings, do you have any formulas you use for looking for a Psychologist, Tactician, Head/General Scouts and Physios?

    Regards

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    To vote and provide feedback on my general discussion topic to introduce Staff Roles and Duties into FM Series please click on my provided link to do so http://bit.ly/u8WoDS
    Last edited by b.paterson; 15-11-2011 at 23:17. Reason: Minor changes to post...

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    Sounds really good :-)

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    @Lord Rowell

    Thank for the kind words on this subject, however if you haven't voted please do so.

    I want to give SI some physical feedback on the subject and by voting this helps with the tangible evidence.

    Once the voting levels get high enough I will be forwarding to @milessi so he can see that people want this feature included.

    Regards

    ---
    To vote and provide feedback on my general discussion topic to introduce Staff Roles and Duties into FM Series please click on my provided link to do so http://bit.ly/u8WoDS
    Last edited by b.paterson; 15-11-2011 at 23:16. Reason: Minor changes to post...

  6. #6
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    +1 from me... incidentally, SI do read these threads, and "tag" any they think are worthwhile considering for future versions, so forwarding to Miles is probably not necessary...

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    @rinso

    You are probably correct and if you haven't voted please do so, however in the pass when I have inquired/provided feedback regarding Australia/Australian issues whether it be on Competition Formats, Weather Conditions, Expanding to the Semi-Professional & Amateur Lower Leagues (Wikipedia), however I never get a reply (not even the moderators in most cases) so when I tweet to Miles all of a sudden the replies come in.

    Another option if they don't want to create roles/duties (however as a tribute to SFraser they should use his approach) would be to provide the key attributes formulas based on the Backroom Advice fields however if they only do this then they would need to explain how these would work for Fitness Coaches, Goalkeeper Coaches, Physios and Scouts.

    So by using the original approach would cover all areas.

    Regards

    ---
    To vote and provide feedback on my general discussion topic to introduce Staff Roles and Duties into FM Series please click on my provided link to do so http://bit.ly/u8WoDS
    Last edited by b.paterson; 15-11-2011 at 23:16. Reason: Minor changes to post...

  8. #8
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    This thread and discussion started by the late SFraser, probably describes the essence of what you're looking for: Setting Up Your Backroom Staff

    The "guide" by SFraser is just as relevant in FM12, as it was for FM11 and earlier, similar guides and musings he wrote for earlier versions of the game.

    When it comes to your suggestions, I do see clearly what you're pointing towards. Just as "understanding" what player attributes mean and how they correlate with tactical instructions, has improved with the addition of the Tactics Creator interface (as opposed to the sliders), it's now much easier to directly relate given player attributes to specific positions, roles and duties within any given tactical framework. Essentially, rather than just numbers and sliders, we now have visual and textual aids, that show us and tell us how player attributes relate to tactical use.

    Having additional job titles for staff would arguably be (or become) a mammoth task, at least for compilation of the database by researchers. The entire database would need to be reviewed thoroughly, the titles implemented where appropriate, large numbers of staff added to the database, not to mention programming, checking and testing all the data.

    The best alternative would be to perhaps have a staff "report" tab. Just as we now see a coach/scout "report" for players, where their "best" position/role/duty is mentioned, which is based on a correlation with player attributes and tactics, we could have a more descriptive similar element for staff members. Something like this may possibly be easiest to code into the game user interface.

    That said though, in the coach "information" tab, there's bar graphs to indicate the quality level of backroom advice you can expect from each staff member. This is relatively simple to translate the meaning, plus if you hover the mouse over each bar, you're given a percentage rating and a textual description of their level of knowledge for a particular aspect, ranging from "Very Poor" to "Good". I would say that this could perhaps be better textually, as "good" covers anywhere between 50% and 100% knowledge, or amount of the bar filled visually.

    Probably better, in steps of 20% might be:

    0-20% Very Poor
    21-40% Poor
    41-60% Good
    61-80% Very Good
    81-100% Excellent

    Whilst for some there is still an element of mystery surrounding just how good a coach or staff member may or may not be at a given task, much of what you're looking towards is actually already there - and quite simple to translate in whatever way you wish. Indeed, from the information already provided for staff members, via their attributes, their "information" tab, as well as feedback from staff meetings, where it's mentioned what training tasks a coach is best suited for, it's quite straightforward to understand the best "role" for a coach. Obviously the better their attributes, in basic terms, the better they're likely to be at any given task.

    The main confusion perhaps, is when it comes to what I'll refer to as a staff member's "additional" attributes. What I mean by this, is that it's safe to say that someone with 20 Defending attribute, should be great at that aspect of coaching. If you placed someone with 20 in that attribute alone and 1 for every other attribute, they won't offer 5 star defence coaching. You'll also need them to have high enough levels (or combinations) of Tactical, Determination, Level of Discipline and Motivating. Also to consider, is they will benefit from high Man Management and if working with youth players, high Working With Youngsters. Finally, when it comes to the quality of advice and reports they provide, they'll need Judging Player Ability and/or Judging Player Potential, plus high Tactical Knowledge, if you want them to provide tactical advice.

    Confused?

    Well that's where it can become confusing for some, if not many people, when it comes to understanding what attributes contribute to particular tasks and functions available from our staff members.

    Rather than perhaps seek more in-game indicators, other than what's already there, perhaps more clearly defined descriptions of what each staff attribute directly contributes towards and examples of good combinations for a given "role" might be more helpful.

    For example, if someone were to ask me what I would look for in an "ideal" assistant manager, my right-hand man, I'd probably say the following is my preference of strong attribute ratings:

    Man Management
    Motivation
    Level of Discipline
    Judging Player Ability
    Tactical Knowledge


    With those five attributes, what I'm purely interested is the quality of "advice" my assistant will provide me for my first team and match interaction. High attributes in those will give me the most accurate advice for - general reports (assistant star ratings) for players, squad selections, team-talks, opposition instructions, tactical advice prior to and during matches, player performance feedback and basically anything else you'd see in the "Assistant Advice" panel during matches.

    For someone I'd perhaps want to assign to manage the reserve or youth teams, I'd probably look for the same attributes, with the addition of Judging Player Potential and Working With Youngsters.

    Coaching staff for a particular training assignment, I'd obviously look for the strongest relative attributes, plus the "additional" attributes I mentioned earlier.

    If I have the time in the next week or so, I might try (with the collaboration of others), to produce a detailed guide to staff attributes and "roles" or tasks you can use them for. That said though, I think SFraser pretty much covered all bases with his guides and discussions.
    Last edited by heathxxx; 16-11-2011 at 02:14.

  9. #9
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    @heathxxx,

    Quick thanks I will have to read this a few times.

    Regards

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    To vote and provide feedback on my general discussion topic to introduce Staff Roles and Duties into FM Series please click on my provided link to do so http://bit.ly/u8WoDS

  10. #10
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    It's certainly something I've seen Dave C mention on here a few times over the years, and I for one would welcome the added level of realism and detail that it would bring.

  11. #11
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    I don't see why I should spend money on those extra staff when my coaches can do those jobs. I don't need a head scout and head physio, because any of my scouts and physios can make those suggestions. It's a tough economy, gotta save money wherever I can. I fail to see how the game will be any different with those staff positions implemented.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by athos7 View Post
    I don't see why I should spend money on those extra staff when my coaches can do those jobs. I don't need a head scout and head physio, because any of my scouts and physios can make those suggestions. It's a tough economy, gotta save money wherever I can. I fail to see how the game will be any different with those staff positions implemented.
    You are correct that your current staff can do all of these suggested roles, however the reason this was suggested is in a way the same theory behind the creation of player roles and duties, the above in the opening post were suggestions by the late SFraser on how he played the game, but he never quoted the attributes he used for each type of person.

    However when you play the game do you rely of a specific staff member for your scouting reports and physio reports (everyone makes suggestions, but you only take the word of a specific staff member)? If you do then he is your head scout/physio.

    In relation to the creation it is an extra layer to the game however if they are making this game a simulation then the evolution of staff would be to create these as if you are involved in actual football then you do recruit heads of the X department and that person would make suggestions regarding the hiring and firing of people doing/not doing their jobs.

    Regards

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    To vote and provide feedback on my general discussion topic to introduce Staff Roles and Duties into FM Series please click on my provided link to do so http://bit.ly/u8WoDS

  13. #13
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    My Answer is an absolute NO.

    I have gone through the SFraser note and in the interaction I did thought of something like this should appear. However, they are tedious and plus the game give you those options already.

    For Example :

    I use 2 Head Scout. One Prepares the Final Report for the X Player. While other scout him in Matches. Although 1 Scout can do both work, I scout a lot of players around the world and that needs time. The One who prepares final report is also the one who scout agent recommended player, while the other scout loaned player. i.e Game already gives you slot for 2 Head Scouts anyway. Use other for the Donkey Work.

    However, if the Head Scout Tab is added you will see new types of problem. A player looses stats and can get degraded from a Key Player to Not Needed. What about Staff? That will mean once a Head Scout always a Head. So finally you have no Scout, once all have reached a peak. I like this way better "This Player is recommended by a agent, your inbox already has a button to scout him by the best person you think fits there" "A superb club regen is going out on loan, Scout him by best Man available"

    Although I would surely like to order rest my scouts in some way. Currently if you send Players into scouting pool, they get scouted by scout in Chronological Order, i.e the scout that was with club at earliest scout him.
    As per physiotherapist, I assume everyone gets physio report from only one physio, no matter how many you have in backroom. He is your head physio, although he is selected by AI purely on physiotherapy attribute.

    As for Motivator, Tactician and Assistant coach "You already have them in your Fluid Backroom" You just have to look at their personal page.

    Offcourse you can select Reserve Coach and Youth Coach.
    Last edited by EnriqueZove; 19-01-2012 at 09:35.

  14. #14
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    I think this is a very good idea. Especially the idea of having "heads" of departements head scout etc etc. If implemented correctly could massively improve realism

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    I've clicked yes, but not sure if this has already been suggested, but here goes:

    When you are looking at the attributes screen for a player, you can select the attributes suited for a particular role (eg inside forward - attack, ball winning midfielder - support) this shows you the attributes to look out for, this could also be applied for staff members.

    I don't fully understand the attributes Im looking for when looking for an Ass Man, or Coach, I just look for more dark blue number than not. For Coaches (not youth) I try to share out the roles by how many Im allowed. (I.e. - 6 coaches allowed, 2 Attacking, 2 defending, 2 tactical)

    I always try and employ as many as the board allows me to, whether this is better or not Im not sure, but its seems to be working ok for me so far, but I wouldn't know if it didn't if it hit me in the face!

  16. #16
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    IMO it doesn't even have to be coded except giving us option to add custom description of staff role and having it visible in custom view. Maybe some of the skin masters might know how to do something?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by grimness View Post
    IMO it doesn't even have to be coded except giving us option to add custom description of staff role and having it visible in custom view. Maybe some of the skin masters might know how to do something?
    True it doesn't need coding, however with the player roles and duties when you select a specific role and duties the attributes are highlighted, so you know what to look for when searching for a player. So by expanding this for staff would be useful however if SI don't want to code this feature in then they should produce a guide/hints and tips that would advise what to look for if you are after a specific staff member.

    Regards

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    To vote and provide feedback on my general discussion topic to introduce Staff Roles and Duties into FM Series please click on my provided link to do so http://bit.ly/u8WoDS
    Last edited by b.paterson; 29-05-2012 at 05:52. Reason: Minor changes to post...

  18. #18
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    This seems to have lost a bit of momentium. I voted 'yes' but I think it really depends on how you play. The following is purely how I play and how I will benefit.

    Head Scout

    Currently I send one scout to roam a specific region. If I have 20 scouts I roam all regions, when I have less I leave out regions where players will be too expensive or where players of a certian quality cannot be found. Anyone above a certain star rating (usually 4) gets added to my shortlist.

    If I had a head scout I would get them to overlook my shortlist regulary and have him cull out any players my regional scouts may have made a mistake on.



    As an example....

  19. #19
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    That said though, in the coach "information" tab, there's bar graphs to indicate the quality level of backroom advice you can expect from each staff member. This is relatively simple to translate the meaning, plus if you hover the mouse over each bar, you're given a percentage rating and a textual description of their level of knowledge for a particular aspect, ranging from "Very Poor" to "Good". I would say that this could perhaps be better textually, as "good" covers anywhere between 50% and 100% knowledge, or amount of the bar filled visually.
    The quote is from heathxxx's post #8.

    Awhile back I created a table which explains what attributes are required for the advice section. http://community.sigames.com/showthr...-Each-Category

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