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Possible solutions to the apparent easiness of FM12


Erimus1876

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I've been asked to move this discussion to a new thread to keep it on track... so here it is.

Original post:

I've done some testing of the AI club Tactical Attributes in the editor to see if I could find a way to raise the games challenge for those who find it too easy.

First of all I began a new save with Barnet (again) who are the worst team in the football league (media prediction 24th).

mediams.jpg

As the manager I did all the managerial things expected of me (or delegated them to staff), except there were no team talks issued for any game (they were completely ignored by me and my assistant). And I bought no one or loaned no one. The tactics used were the default 4-4-2 (no tweaks) for every match.

After 15 games I was comfortably in mid-table. 17 points ahead of 24th place (my predicted position). This with a team that had no new players added to it. Again far too easy but at least not as easy as my original save that saw me 5th and 24 points clear of 24th after 18 games using the same rules as above. :thdn:

barnettablevpoorai.jpg

I wanted to see if I could improve how the AI would perform against me in matches so:

I then increased all the AI clubs Tactical Attributes for League Two teams in the editor to the following...

Attacking 15

Depth 15

Directness 20

Flamboyancy 5

Flexibility 10

Free Roles 5

Marking 20

Offside 20

Pressing 15

Sitting Back 15

Tempo 15

Playmaker 5

Width 15

... and set my teams TA's to 1 in each catergory.

I started a new save, again with Barnet, and employed the exact same method of managing as mentioned above. Again no new players added etc.

This is how the table looked after 15 games...

barnettablevgoodai.jpg

Exactly where Barnet should be under the circumstances described !

Anyway, I've now improved the entire English league system, plus the top leagues from Spain, Italy, Germany, France, Portugal, and Holland with better Tactical Attributes for every AI club and will start a new game hoping its not a one off. If anyone else wants to test if further the database can be found here...

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NZSI3XK7

To get a true test, you will need to lower the TA's of the team you're going to manager using FMRTE, or you can try it as it stands in the database and see how you get on having TA's the same as all the other teams in your league.

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What do the Tactical Attributes in the editor actually represent, and are they even worth editing if they don't do what I presume them to do?

I'm not sure if they're quantitative numbers, meaning the higher the number the better the team is in that category, or if they instead represent a sliding scale of tendency, with 10 being the middle, and 1 and 20 the far extremes of little tendancy to full tendancy.

If they're tendancies then it doesn't make much sense since surely its the managers tactical attributes that should dictate how a team plays and there would be no use in having these numbers in game. If they're quantitative numbers then perhaps they're a 'base level' and a managers attributes would then add to them, enhancing them even further? I'm not 100% sure. SI labeling them Tactical Attributes, and not Tactical Tendancies, makes me think they're quantitative and have little to do with AI managers individual tactical attributes except acting as 'enhancers'.

This post was one of the ones that got me thinking TA's could be one of the causes of the easy games people are experiencing:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/284254-Let-s-figure-this-out..-I-think-I-m-onto-something

Also if they're tendancies and the game *is* tougher with the values I used in my initial test game, that could suggest the match engine is not very good at certain tendancies (styles of play) than it is with others. Not a good sign imho as it should be equally as good at all styles.

As far as I know they are fixed and do not change once your game starts. However, if they are dynamic and change from season to season this could explain "second season syndrome" were sometimes you have a much tougher 2nd season after dominating your first (I'm not convinced the AI 'learns' your tactic as some people suggest as being the cause of 2nd season syndrome - not convinced at all).

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Latest test:

South Bank AFC (media prediction 21st).

  • Default 4-4-2 tactic.
  • No teamtalks.
  • No transfers.

Current status...

newbitmapimageyu.jpg

Looking good, as a previous save with the same team but without improved opponent AI TA's saw me in the top 5 at the same stage, 19 points ahead of the predicted position (with no transfers added to the squad).

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I'm now doing the same experiment on FM 11.3 database as FM 11.3 and FM 12 are almost same and some guys are already testing it on FM 12. I've edited all the Italian teams from top to bottom (100+ teams) and have started the game in Serie A with Siena (media prediction 19th). I'll post my results in next couple of days with comprehensive feedback on how the AI teams played with boosted tactical attributes.

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Well to be honest, I can't see anything wrong with the original TA's. I think they are perfectly balanced as they are, rather they should cahnge the game code to use them more efficiently. There is no way league two clubs have above average tactical attributes in real life, no way. They just bang the ball ahead, hoping a target man scores etc. Even in the top divisions, only the top clubs can have the TAs that you've put. I agree that the game is too easy, but I think that the TAs are EXACTLY realistic in terms of numbers. How they are implemented is a different question but a good tactician can do that irl with a decent squad where nobody knows any tactics. Remember Brian Clough. Yeah many years have passed but I don't think that the lower leagues in any part of the world are more competitive and more tactically adapt now than they were at that time.

This isn't making the game realistic, it's basically having Mourinho manage all the clubs in a top division. Or having Xavi's Inıesta's and so on to play with them with their mega understanding of tactics. The outcome isn't too realistic too, like I said, with soo sooo little differencce between the squad depths and qualities, a good tactician can totally take Barnet to the top 10, easily. I hate that this game is too easy, but I think that's just because the boards are unrealistic, that's all.

In real life, a high percentage of the players do not understand tactics. Again in real life, a high percentage of managers achieve success only once or twice in their long careers and usually get sacked and move clubs so the fact that most clubs are tactically incapable in FM is totally legit. They should instead make a system where the more complicated the tactical ssystem of your team gets, the harder it is to learn for your players in the match preparation system and perhaps adding a changing cap to it which is calculated by the overall intelligence of your squad. So the smarter your squad, the better your tactics can be. Therefore eliminating the possibility of promoting Barnet in the first season, using a perfect tactic.

tl;dr: Good find, but just for short term. As I've explained, it makes the game extra and unrealistically hard. At least it makes the game harder in a much unrealistic manner. SI should tweak the game, but please not by making all teams superhuman tacticians...

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I'm now doing the same experiment on FM 11.3 database as FM 11.3 and FM 12 are almost same and some guys are already testing it on FM 12. I've edited all the Italian teams from top to bottom (100+ teams) and have started the game in Serie A with Siena (media prediction 19th). I'll post my results in next couple of days with comprehensive feedback on how the AI teams played with boosted tactical attributes.

Are you setting your own clubs Tactical Attributes to 1? On the first test with Barnet I did this. That was the test where I really struggled and found it hard to grind out results against the AI. On the 2nd test with South Bank AFC I left the Tactical Attributes for my team as the same as all the other teams in my league. It doesn't seem to make much difference since I'm struggling with them and still having a challenging time grinding out points against the AI. I've just started a new test with Napoil (prediction 8th), again left my own clubs TA's as the same as the rest of the league and am sitting 8th in the league, winning and losing as expected.

So maybe it doesn't really matter what our own clubs Tactical Attributes are, just what the AI's TA's are? Early days yet though!

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Well to be honest, I can't see anything wrong with the original TA's. I think they are perfectly balanced as they are, rather they should cahnge the game code to use them more efficiently. There is no way league two clubs have above average tactical attributes in real life, no way. They just bang the ball ahead, hoping a target man scores etc. Even in the top divisions, only the top clubs can have the TAs that you've put. I agree that the game is too easy, but I think that the TAs are EXACTLY realistic in terms of numbers. How they are implemented is a different question but a good tactician can do that irl with a decent squad where nobody knows any tactics. Remember Brian Clough. Yeah many years have passed but I don't think that the lower leagues in any part of the world are more competitive and more tactically adapt now than they were at that time.

This isn't making the game realistic, it's basically having Mourinho manage all the clubs in a top division. Or having Xavi's Inıesta's and so on to play with them with their mega understanding of tactics. The outcome isn't too realistic too, like I said, with soo sooo little differencce between the squad depths and qualities, a good tactician can totally take Barnet to the top 10, easily. I hate that this game is too easy, but I think that's just because the boards are unrealistic, that's all.

In real life, a high percentage of the players do not understand tactics. Again in real life, a high percentage of managers achieve success only once or twice in their long careers and usually get sacked and move clubs so the fact that most clubs are tactically incapable in FM is totally legit. They should instead make a system where the more complicated the tactical ssystem of your team gets, the harder it is to learn for your players in the match preparation system and perhaps adding a changing cap to it which is calculated by the overall intelligence of your squad. So the smarter your squad, the better your tactics can be. Therefore eliminating the possibility of promoting Barnet in the first season, using a perfect tactic.

tl;dr: Good find, but just for short term. As I've explained, it makes the game extra and unrealistically hard. At least it makes the game harder in a much unrealistic manner. SI should tweak the game, but please not by making all teams superhuman tacticians...

Yeah I know what you're saying. I think this test is just for those who want to salvage the game they paid £30 for since a lot of people in the other thread are fed up and giving up on the game already after just a few weeks. No challenge means no point in playing. So even though messing with TA's is unrealistic at least it'll give them a challenge (however artificial) until SI sort it out or its fixed (fingers crossed) for FM13.

They should instead make a system where the more complicated the tactical ssystem of your team gets, the harder it is to learn for your players in the match preparation system and perhaps adding a changing cap to it which is calculated by the overall intelligence of your squad. So the smarter your squad, the better your tactics can be. Therefore eliminating the possibility of promoting Barnet in the first season, using a perfect tactic.

This gets my vote - excellent idea :thup:

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I think egesagin is missing the point. Boosting these tactical attributes doesn't mean that all the AI clubs will start playing like Barcelona. These tactical attribute will only really take effect if an AI club has a capable manager and players to do so. Hence lower league teams will still be weaker and top level teams will still be stronger.

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Of course they won't, but still the default attributes are realistic imho, just think about how those teams play and you'll see what I mean. Should give this a try in the premiership perhaps, or better, in Germany where there isn't any domination in the recent years so we can understand how that change affects the game

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Did you change the attributes for each team in the leauge separetly or are the changes only leauge specific? Whats happening with the teams that get promoted or demoted?

If you lets say change the attributes for each teams in Ligue1 France and at the end of the season some teams get promoted from Ligue2 to Ligue1. Do the newly promoted teams have any chance of surviving in Ligue1? Are the attribute changes leauge specific? Wil the newly promoted teams get automatic increase in attributes?

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Did you change the attributes for each team in the leauge separetly or are the changes only leauge specific? Whats happening with the teams that get promoted or demoted?

If you lets say change the attributes for each teams in Ligue1 France and at the end of the season some teams get promoted from Ligue2 to Ligue1. Do the newly promoted teams have any chance of surviving in Ligue1? Are the attribute changes leauge specific? Wil the newly promoted teams get automatic increase in attributes?

They're club specific, so if say Bolton Wanderers are relegated to the Championship they will still have the same "PL standard" TA's I initially gave them (unless TA's are dynamic and change from season to season - in which case all this will be a waste of time lol).

I haven't tested a full season yet so don't know what will happen to newly promoted or relegated teams. If you look at the figures in post #2 you'll see the difference between the Premiership and Championship isn't that big so there shouldn't be a problem there. But I didn't change any AI clubs TA's in any of the 2nd divisions of the other European nations, so thats where to look for more telling results about how promoted / relegated teams get on.

If its a problem and promoted teams stand no chance, the only solution would be to make all teams in the DB have the same TA's - but then its getting even more unrealistic. :/

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Here's my next 2 tests...

Team: Napoli (predicted 8th).

Rules: No transfers or loans, no teamtalks by me or assistant, no training, default 442 Diamond tactic.

napolib.jpg

After 15 games, currently 6th, just 1 point ahead of 8th (predicted). Knocked out of Champions League at group stage (2 wins).

Next one...

Team: Doncaster Rovers (predicted 23rd)

Rules: No transfers or loans, no teamtalks by me or assistant, no training, default 451 tactic.

donnyz.jpg

After 15 games, currently 20th, again just 1 point ahead of predicted 23rd placed team.

So its looking like I'm not storming away with the league like I did with relatively poor teams (Barnet x 2, Bishop Stortford, Hartlepool) using the undedited SI database with the same managerial rules described above. Thats promising and increasing AI clubs' TA's *could* be working???

In the games defence though I just finished playing the first 15 games of a 2nd Doncaster save with the original DB (no edits) and struggled to get many points (had a big injury crisis though), so out of 5 or 6 regular saves I started, I finally got one that wasn't easy and was a challenge from the off!

Anyway, I'm burned out testing stuff for now so will take a break from it for a few days and see what conclusions other testers come to :cool:

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I think you should test with doing team talks and using the optimal formation for the squad since your assistant tells you the formation and can handle the team talk.

AI teams DO use team talks, it's apparent, and they use different tactics so your way of testing isn't enough for me. At least let your assistant handle team talks and give a more fitting formation, so you can have a more realistic outcome of the changes you've made

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I think you should test with doing team talks and using the optimal formation for the squad since your assistant tells you the formation and can handle the team talk.

AI teams DO use team talks, it's apparent, and they use different tactics so your way of testing isn't enough for me. At least let your assistant handle team talks and give a more fitting formation, so you can have a more realistic outcome of the changes you've made

I think that would be the next stage - these early tests are just to see if there's any sign of an improved challenge by messing with TA's and if so, take it from there.

The reason I avoided TT's, transfers, and my own tactics etc is because I found I was hammering the league with crap teams without using any of those features! So I wanted to test an edited DB under the same restrictions. If I take this further, the next set of tests will include using all the managerial features SI have provided and see what happens.

By the way, the assistant wasn't used either. He never did any TT's, picked the team, or suggested tactics. He was completely ignored and I was still finding it far too easy with the teams I started with.

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Well PaulC has replied to the other thread with this...

Regarding changing the tendencies of AI managers in the database:

These are tendencies NOT abilities, as I am sure you are aware. Changing them will simply affect the way these managers set up their team, but maybe not as dramatically as you think. Eg depth of 15 doesnt mean they will always set up a depth of 15 tactically, but it does mean it will probably average around that over a season depending on opposition etc.

I cant imagine such changes will affect difficulty unless the changes are making these teams' tactics significantly more of less effective.

So going by that they are tendencies. In which case making them all 20's etc should make no difference to the difficulty.

I'm wondering if the reason it seems to be more challenging is because if they're all 20's it gives the AI an equal chance to try all 13 tendancies (styles of play) against us in a match? Making the AI more flexible with its strategies? Maybe I'll go ask him....

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Did you try doing nothing and overachieving in a higher league? It is quite interesting, I haven't seen anything like that. Giving it a shot with norwich in the EPL might end up in relegation I think..

Not in a higher league yet. Plenty have though if you see the other thread in general discussion. I think it'll be harder in the higher leagues, which seems contradictory to all those people who say if you want a challenge be a small club in league 2 :lol:

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No he's talking about the team tactical attributes too (which are tendencies)...

What about changing a team's 'tactical attributes' Paul? Will this have any significant effect in how they set up?
Not really, no. Their manager decides that. The team tactical attributes are more for who they hire I believe.

So basically these tests shouldn't make any difference to the game challenge since all we're changing are numbers that effect what type of managers the AI teams will employ.

Fact is, out of 8 saves I've tried, the only 4 that were a serious challenge were the ones were I edited the TA's :lol:

Oh, well. At least it looks like we're getting a tweak for morale in an upcomming patch.

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well then Erimus...done a bit of testing today.started new game with bristol rovers,played 11 games so far and struggling in 9th position....now my previous save which WASNT using your changes after 11 games i was top by 3 points!!!

funny thing is,this time around using your changes,i have an improved squad which i was very confident of running away with the league.

now whether this is pure coincidence or because of yr changes...who knows?

but what i will say is that im far happier now and will continue using this latest save.its only early days in the testing and maybe after a few seasons we will get a better idea.:)

i also read that there will be changes regarding morale in upcoming patch..from Paul C in the difficulty thread in general.

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well then Erimus...done a bit of testing today.started new game with bristol rovers,played 11 games so far and struggling in 9th position....now my previous save which WASNT using your changes after 11 games i was top by 3 points!!!

funny thing is,this time around using your changes,i have an improved squad which i was very confident of running away with the league.

now whether this is pure coincidence or because of yr changes...who knows?

but what i will say is that im far happier now and will continue using this latest save.its only early days in the testing and maybe after a few seasons we will get a better idea.:)

Thats good to hear :) It shouldn't work according to PaulC's comments, but it seems to be having an effect on your save and 4 of mine. If a few more testers see a difference too we may be on to something afterall!

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OK, first impressions:

I know Paul C is saying in the other thread that Erismus' changes don't have an effect on difficulty...

Well, it certainly feels different! I'm playing as Hannover in the Bundesliga. With the original database, I was walking away with the title, not facing any real resistance, handing out trashings left, right and centre.

With this edited database, however - well, I've only played eight league matches so far, but I can clearly kiss the league title goodbye. I'm fourth, with four wins and four defeats. The AI teams are putting up a real fight - no more bending over and letting me have my way with them, like they used to. In fact, I was just at the wrong end of a 1-4 spanking at the hands of F.C. Köln, who simply played me right off the field. Bayern Münich were wiping the floor with me as well - it's feels like I'll only beat them now if I have a good day and really play at my best.

At this rate, I'll actually struggle to achieve my goal of a top half finish (which I optimistically upped from the default goal of mid-table). Yes I'm fourth, but the league is extremely even - there are just three points from me down to 13th. My players look like useless gits half the time. I have to get my act together or this could go pear-shaped. In other words: great fun! :D

Am I just imagining the difference in difficulty? Seems weird... I'll keep you posted...

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Don't worry guys. I'll be posting my results with edited attributes on FM 11.3 in next few days. And I'll playing the game properly - my team talks, my tactics, no transfers in the first window and no unrealistic transfers for that matter. :)

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By the way, if this change does really work, I hope SI don't ruin this for us by modifying something in the next patch/version which makes these tactical attributes changes ineffectual. :( Giving the ability to mod a game actually attracts more customers and fans. Take 'The Sims' series for example.

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OK, first impressions:

I know Paul C is saying in the other thread that Erismus' changes don't have an effect on difficulty...

Well, it certainly feels different! I'm playing as Hannover in the Bundesliga. With the original database, I was walking away with the title, not facing any real resistance, handing out trashings left, right and centre.

With this edited database, however - well, I've only played eight league matches so far, but I can clearly kiss the league title goodbye. I'm fourth, with four wins and four defeats. The AI teams are putting up a real fight - no more bending over and letting me have my way with them, like they used to. In fact, I was just at the wrong end of a 1-4 spanking at the hands of F.C. Köln, who simply played me right off the field. Bayern Münich were wiping the floor with me as well - it's feels like I'll only beat them now if I have a good day and really play at my best.

At this rate, I'll actually struggle to achieve my goal of a top half finish (which I optimistically upped from the default goal of mid-table). Yes I'm fourth, but the league is extremely tight - there's just three points from me down to 13th. My players look like useless gits half the time. I have to get my act together or this could go pear-shaped. In other words: great fun!

I am just imagining the difference in difficulty? Seems weird... I'll keep you posted...

I watched some games in 3D and have noticed a change in the AI too. It really does look a lot better and harder to beat. But like you said, is it our imagination just playing tricks? It really can't be effected if TA's just influence what type of manager a club will employ and has nothing to do with how the AI will perform on the pitch. Still, results seem to say otherwise. The jury is out with me, I'm not going to go against what one of SI's programmers says is happening since they wrote the code and should know better than anyone, but if more and more people see a difference to what they were seeing before editing those numbers, then.... well.... :confused::confused::confused: :lol:

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By the way, if this change does really work, I hope SI don't ruin this for us by modifying something in the next patch/version which makes these tactical attributes changes ineffectual. :( Giving the ability to mod a game actually attracts more customers and fans. Take 'The Sims' series for example.

Agreed.

I think one way SI could solve the difficulty issue without pissing off the other 70% of people who like the game as it is is to add more features for us to modify in the editor. Then only those dedicated enough to seek a harder challenge will take the time to tailor their database & game exactly like they want - leaving everyone else to play as they always did, unaffected.

I'd like to see something like the Tactical Attributes DEFINATELY have some influence on the AI in matches if its not already so. Also the abilty to set the minimum and maximum attributes of regen staff and AI managers so we can be sure when all the decent managers retire they'll be replaced by a minimum standard, unlike it is now where they all seem to be pretty poor stat-wise. Maybe a Morale tweaker in the editor too, the abilty to tweak the effect of training, teamtalks, team meetings etc. Basically have SI hand over all the things that can be modded to make the game harder or easier. It'd save them an endless headache of trying to get the balance right for everyone by letting us balance it ourselves.

Imagine having people releasing modded databases for FM13 labled... "FM13 World Class" "FM13 Pro" "FM13 Pub Team Standard" :lol:

A DB for everyone.

The one thing they must do for FM13 though is significantly improve AI team building and AI player development - thats something we can't do anything about.

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  • SI Staff

Categorically, the AI teams use their manager's tendencies to set up their tactics not the club ones.

And besides, tendencies arent ability related, they are tendencies ;)

Sorry!

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Categorically, the AI teams use their manager's tendencies to set up their tactics not the club ones.

And besides, tendencies arent ability related, they are tendencies ;)

Sorry!

Well, there goes that theory :D Thanks for clearing it up.

I think this was asked in the other thread, but is there any chance for next years game that newgen staff (particualry managers) can have better stats? Maybe this would help with AI squad building and tactics? Or even add more categories to the editor that allow us to edit more things and tailor the "difficulty level" ourselves (as mentioned in my post above yours) ?

Cheers!

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Not 100% gone Erimus. Why don't you run exactly the same tests but altering the AI managers' tendency ratings in the editor rather than the clubs'?

As a sideline, keep a check on who replaces their managers and use FMRTE to note the incoming managers' tendency ratings to compare their success rate with their predecessors.

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Not 100% gone Erimus. Why don't you run exactly the same tests but altering the AI managers' tendency ratings in the editor rather than the clubs'?

As a sideline, keep a check on who replaces their managers and use FMRTE to note the incoming managers' tendency ratings to compare their success rate with their predecessors.

The problem with editing managers though is they eventually retire so you're back to square one when poorer newgens replace them. It would be a short term fix, and I'm a long career save player. Anyway, a few of us tested upgrading AI managers a few months ago for FM11 and there were no conclusive results (we were trying to see if better AI managers would lead to better AI squad building and player development).

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Yeah I would like to see that as well Erimus. We need more ways to increase the game difficulty ourselves.

Anyway I've been doing my own project for a week now. I edited a lot of manager's tactical and mental attributes (not the way you did though with teams, cause 20 for directness basically means long balls and 20 for depth, the lowest possible defensive line, I tried to stay true to the proper style of the manager). Gave a lot of the top coaches a 200 PA, just like we have, some like Ferguson and Mourinho even a 200 CA. I increased a lot of club reputations across Europe to make the gap smaller. I improved youth facilities for all the bigger teams across the world to create more good regens and a more even playing field in the future. And finally when I read about your project, I gave most of the big teams all across Europe improved customized tactical attributes.

I've been holidaying a lot and played one test season so far and it seems like my game is harder and much more balanced in general, but I won't be able to really comment unless I play a proper long term game, which is what I'm planning to do next.

Now Paul C can come out and say that everything I did was worthless :D, but I'm hoping it will get me the change I'm looking for. I'll definitely report back and I'm glad I'm not the only one trying to tackle this problem. :)

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Yeah I would like to see that as well Erimus. We need more ways to increase the game difficulty ourselves.

Anyway I've been doing my own project for a week now. I edited a lot of manager's tactical and mental attributes (not the way you did though with teams, cause 20 for directness basically means long balls and 20 for depth, the lowest possible defensive line, I tried to stay true to the proper style of the manager). Gave a lot of the top coaches a 200 PA, just like we have, some like Ferguson and Mourinho even a 200 CA. I increased a lot of club reputations across Europe to make the gap smaller. I improved youth facilities for all the bigger teams across the world to create more good regens and a more even playing field in the future. And finally when I read about your project, I gave most of the big teams all across Europe improved customized tactical attributes.

I've been holidaying a lot and played one test season so far and it seems like my game is harder and much more balanced in general, but I won't be able to really comment unless I play a proper long term game, which is what I'm planning to do next.

Now Paul C can come out and say that everything I did was worthless :D, but I'm hoping it will get me the change I'm looking for. I'll definitely report back and I'm glad I'm not the only one trying to tackle this problem. :)

That sounds promising. You may find this thread from a few months ago interesting.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/272261-Poor-AI-squad-building-means-the-game-gets-significantly-easier-after-the-first-few-season

Post #129 was my test, trying to do for FM11 what you're doing for FM12. The results weren't anything spectacular, maybe the test should have gone on for more seasons to give it a chance though. Hopefully SI improved the impact of AI staff on player developement this year so you may have better results with your test. Keep us informed :)

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The problem with editing managers though is they eventually retire so you're back to square one when poorer newgens replace them. It would be a short term fix, ...

Not really mate. If you can show clear and definite patterns in a 10 year save, you've shown incontrovertible facts for a long-term save. As you've seen in the GD thread, there is a very widespread feeling that the game is too easy, and 99% of people saying that are noticing it in the first few seasons as you have yourself. I just think you're onto something that PaulC just isn't seeing yet. If you put your finger on what the reason is exactly, he won't be able to ignore it.

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Well, there's a few people who've downloaded the DB I linked, or are using their own and editing stuff themselves, so hopefully we'll get some feedback on here to see if their results are similar. If there's a consensus that the game seems harder with the edits then its worth taking it further, 10 seasons and beyond. I'm going to wait and see what others have discovered first though.

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Are regen managers generated tendencies based on retired managers' tendencies? If yes, could this make long term career games challenging if we edit the current managers' tendencies? If no, then on what basis their tendencies are generated? randomly?

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Are regen managers generated tendencies based on retired managers' tendencies? If yes, could this make long term career games challenging if we edit the current managers' tendencies? If no, then on what basis their tendencies are generated? randomly?

I think all new people entering the game as newgens, wether managers, players, staff etc have randomly created attributes and tendencies, the majority of which are never as good as the starting DB's data... so there'll never be AI managers as good as Guadiola, Mourinho, Fergie etc once they retire... at least thats what it was like in FM11 & FM10, can't see '12 being any different tbh, but I haven't played enough seasons on '12 yet to know for sure if its been improved.

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