The game is too easy.
The difficulty is about right.
The game is too hard.
Played the first one and lost 1-2. Was relieved to finally lose, but then I played Milan and gained a 1-5 lead with no trying to win whatsoever, no changing tactics or anything...and totally lost the will to play the game...
Last edited by Casual; 07-11-2011 at 20:41.
As human managers we use the tools in the game better, so for us it is easier to recover from a bad start by using the ingame tools to boost the morale, grind a win and continue from there. AI is not that good in using those tools, so once an AI controlled team starts bad, it continues bad for the rest of the season bc the morale never recovers. This explains why 30% says the game is too easy, and only 5% says the game is too hard. Those 5% are the minority who haven't mastered the team talks, team meetings, etc., and they continue their season with low morale, and whatever they do with their tactics, they keep losing, bc their morale is low.
Lie I said before, the morale being tweaked in the next patch will be better for everybody. So, those who find the game too hard, don't think that the game will be even harder. The game will be easier for you, and it will be harder for the 30% who say it is too easy.
Your name suggests that you are Turkish. Consider last seasons Galatasaray. Actually consider last two years'. Although their squad was pretty good, the both seasons,they lost many many points to smaller teams and that was mainly because of their morale and lack of confidence so it isn't so unrealistic. Yes the team talks need tweaking but still, low morale DO cause losing streaks even for the biggest clubs in real life
I played so many matches observing this. When the morale is high, get your worst player from U-18 team and put him in the line-up. He will play just as good as everybody else on your team. Or put your striker on stopper position, or play your CB as a striker, they will still perform.
Hopefully the tweak on the morale will fix this somewhat, but in the long run the ME should go through a drastic change until we can start being able to tell a good player from your worst one while watching the matches in the graphical representation. Right now I can't tell my best players from the worst youngster in my team when I watch them in the ME, nor their stats show the difference in their quality. If the morale is good, everybody plays well, if the morale is bad, nobody plays well. Just keep the morale high, you will win your league with the worst roster in the league.
Like I said, irl poor morale causes the best squads to perform miserably. Apart from that, AI must be smarter. I definitely agree on that
I agree with you, of course it should be effective, but what we have in FM is overkill.
For example, do you think Genclerbirligi can win the league this year? Sure enough, they just beat Besiktas 4-2 this past weekend, those results happen when one team with lower quality is highly motivated and the better team is complacent. But it only happens every once in a while. In my game I took Genclerbirligi, and after having a good start to the saeson nobody can stop me. Ermin Zec scores 1 goal a game, Hursut Meric becomes a Messi and starts running circles around opposition defenders EVERY match I play, etc.
If the morale will remain as effective as it is in the ME right now, at least it should be harder to achieve (and maintain) high morale, and this is what PAul has tweaked as far as I understand. It is a step in the right direction. It should shorten the neverending winning streaks and we shall have a more realistic game.
I don't know, I didn't have any unrealistic occasions in the Turkish leagues, except from my performance lol. I get your point though, if other people experience that kind of stuff, than it should be fixed. And like I said, the motivation patch was needed and will do good. But AI managers need a major work, hopefully they will make it for 2013..
Go an average League 1 or 2 team, that way you'll get a good challenge. Things that you may not notice as the manager of Man Utd (e.g. agent fees) make improving your squad very difficult and more time consuming.
Barnet - media prediction 24th.
No Team Talks.
Not only did the opposition rarely beat me, they stopped scoring against me too. That was the last straw.
The league table at the time of me giving up in dissapointment at the games ease.
I was 2 points off automatic promotion, 26 points ahead of my predicted 24th.
Had the best defence in the league.
I bought no one.
I used the default 442.
Or like this 2nd save with Barnet (remember them? the worst team in the football league?)...
No Team Talks.
If I can recover my Bishop Stortford and Hartlepool saves I'll post their massive over-achievement with minimal effort too.
Point is. The argument of being a small team = a challenge is not true anymore, especially in FM12. Yes some people are finding it a challenge. But some people are not - it does not matter what team you manage.
Be thankful you have a save going that is challenging and fun. A lot of people still haven't had that pleasure yet, and the games been out what? 2 weeks?
Last edited by Erimus1876; 08-11-2011 at 12:41.
It has to be a fine balance, and people on here really need to accept there will NEVER be a difficulty setting in FM, its not that kind of game. The only option really is to improve the AI for us longer term gamers and improve the manuals and tutorials for those less experienced players.
For what its worth 5 seasons in i have not noticed this version any easier from FM11, not in the slightest.
Bandaid fixes rarely work and like you said, they can upset one set of players over another. Here's the direction I think SI should take this difficulty level issue (if its viable)...
Edit: removed uncalled for comments.
Last edited by Erimus1876; 08-11-2011 at 16:18.
Im not going to bother reading back through all 530 posts in this thread when i can ask you a simple question, again calm down a bit no need to get so defensive over it. But your answer backs up my thinking on the subject so thanks for that.
The game feels easier this year, and I suspect it's due to the new team talk system being overpowered since the match engine hasn't changed. Speaking of the match engine, count me in with those who see too many woodwork strikes every game, for both myself and the AI. I have yet to play a game where there were none, and 3-5 is the more usual total. It feels ridiculous.
Back to difficulty: I always play LLM and I just restarted a save by picking a bottom division Turkish side that had just got promoted. 10 games into the season I've only dropped 2 points, hammering everyone left and right and only conceding 6 so far. We're talking 6-0s and 5-1s away here and I'm not counting a cup win, since that was against semi-amateur opposition. I use my imported tactics from FM11 so that's also a constant variable. I've only signed 3 scrubs off the street to make up numbers, so it's not a question of talent level either. It does seem that the morale of the players is always sky high and it's very easy to find the team talk setting that will get everyone "green" across the board.
Just my 2 cents.
I've noticed that this year if I set my past experience as "Sunday League" the game gives me a rep of 4500, instead of 1500 like in FM 11.
I'm not sure about implications, or if it's a bug, but it should be considered when starting a game for sure.
Hmm thats interesting. If thats the case I wonder if all the other rep settings have been significanlty increased too?
1. International Footballer FM 11 8000, FM 12 5500
2. Professional Footballer FM 11 6000, FM 12 5500
3. Semi-Professional Footballer FM 11 3250, FM 12 4499
4. Sunday League Footballer FM 11 1500, FM 12 4499
1. International Footballer FM 11 8000, FM 12 8000
2. Professional Footballer FM 11 6000, FM 12 6000
3. Semi-Professional Footballer FM 11 3250, FM 12 3250
4. Sunday League Footballer FM 11 1500, FM 12 2750
hmmm..seriously considering going back fo FM11 now until maybe this years gets sorted
What's the difference between Home rep. and current rep. Fed_Gu?
i can only comment on what has happened in my gamesave so far and i do seem to be having an easier ride and better results than i have ever achived in past fm games.
Currently playing as Udinese in Seria A. Started the season with media prediction 10th but by March im top of the league, unbeaten in the 26 games to date with just 11 goals conceded. im 9 points clear of the second place team with 2 games in hand...
ive not got a squad of world beater by any means but iv managed to get big wins (as much as 4-0) against ac milan, inter and juve.
i never expected to get these kind of results so the game does seem to easier this time around.
*just wanted to add my assistant manager handles all pre-match pree confrences, team talks and post match press confrences and his man managment and motivation are both below 14
Last edited by Barkers; 08-11-2011 at 13:59.
I'm not sure about this.
The strange part is that until FM 11 HR and CR had the same value at the start of the game. This year it's different.
I had to repeat I've no idea about implications but in a reputation based game I think it's an important change.
If anyone form SI could clarify this...
Here I finished my first season with OM.
47 wins 59 games -----
Unbeaten in L1
Champion in L1
Winner of the CDF
Champions League winner against Barcelona
I don't buy players
To you to judge whether the game is too easy.*
If we could have a level difficulty in option menu it will be better for beginner and older players.
Last edited by Neo14; 08-11-2011 at 14:05.
While Ill be glad to help new players, there are other ways to help them. Like this forum for example. To make game easy is NEVER right way.
depends how easy you make it for yourself imo! i personally start at lowest rep manager and make my own tactics, sign different players etc etc! whereas others dl the amazing tactics from the web and buy the well known wonderkids etc so i think if u play the game realistically then it is a good challenge, not too hard tbf, but still challenging enough.
WHen you play first person shooter online experienced players are much better for first few months. You can feel the difference. In other games is the same. In FM i dont see the difference anymore. There is nothing to move you forward when you see pictures like in this thread.
Last edited by Matej; 08-11-2011 at 14:20.
M8, game is easy for years, last time i had little challenge was in FM07 i think... WHy there is never bug that makes game harder? FM 11 was easy, this year is even worse situation. I dont like to mention name(s) of other games in SI forums, but good games have 3 things: Challenge, fun and addictiveness. THese things are connected. FM had last 2 things, with so so challenge. Now FM complitlly lost challenge and because of that fun and addictiveness is lost 2.
Now its only good if you can find 10 or 20 online players to play in league. i dont like playing with people i dont know, and my mates all have wifes and jobs and they cant play anymore. So that leaves me for singleplayer FM, and FM12 is so easy that makes me sick.
Last edited by Matej; 08-11-2011 at 14:39.
The more and more people I see complaining about the game being too easy, the more I fail to believe that the game was not made easier on purpose this year.
I voted "The game is too hard" in the first place. Mainly because I play Bayern and find it hard to get ride of losing streaks. My players played like idiot in losing streaks and I have no ideal how to solve it.
Then I read some article here saying how important morale is. I give it a try. Pick up players with highest morale, not skill, even play they slightly out of their best position. It turns out I end my losing streaks, won 2:1, both goals came from own goal of opposite. It's not the end. Next game I play away with my biggest rival, Dortmund, who beat me twice last season by 3 goals both home and away. I applied same "morale always comes first" policy and I won 3:0 and 2 of them are own goal. The last game I won 2:0 easily and I been given one own goal. In short, I been given 5 own goals in 3 winning games. I also noticed that with higher morale, even you're unlucky to score, the opposite with act like idiot to make sure they will lose.
Basically I do nothing but play players with highest morale to win the game. So I decide to change my mind on this subject. Count me out of "this game is too hard" and count me in "this game is too easy".
no offense, you have points.... but how many times have we seen a newly promoted side or poor prem side have a fantastic run through the first half of the season with dreams of europe, only to come down to earth? and that's the premiership... not league 2 where it's not unheard of for double promotions and what not.
Its a matter of luck I think.
I started as Sunderland and it seemed easy for me finished the league 5th easily, but then started a new game with Schalke and it was disaster. I lost second match of the league against Köln 6-0
FMGraphics.Net - Football Manager Fansite of Turkey
Yeah i have never been in that boat really, you pick the team you want and you should expect to enjoy the game no matter what. I do think the game is a bit easier with the big teams but purely because you have ample funds to sort out any issues and you will outspend the AI at all times, but thats another topic really. That doesnt mean that choosen Barnet or anyone else should be impossible to achieve anything.
Your last sentence is silly tho, who's to say they're not actually finding the game hard? Like i said i have not found FM12 any easier so far, infact in FM11 i had already won the league by the 5th season, right now im miles away from that. It really isnt as cut and dry as this thread makes out, that is why people come on and argue with you, at times the feeling from this thread is if you dont agree your an idiot and dont know what your talking about, both sides have their case and reasons, SI need to find a middle ground that suits all of these people, not just those finding it easy, or those finding it hard.
I thought id highlight for a laugh
No one made the game easier by design, i can promise you that even tho i dont work for SI. Your right you should never say never, but again i can safely say a difficulty level will not come into FM, its been said by Dev's plenty times already and i cannot see that changing in a hurry.
I know how you feel. Its the same problem. i care for people who are finding game 2 hard, because something its not right and its the same problem. SI said that they will look at this , so we must be patient and wait. Problems are much bigger, but we would be happy with quick fix. In the future they need to change ME, because its with us for 2 many years. We know every angle of ME and we need the new beginning. YOu cant eat same food for 10 years every day, even its the best food you ever tasted.
Thats true, but you missed the point I was making. Actually you missed 2 points.
1.. I specifically chose teams that should be trying to avoid relegation because I wanted to have a relegation battle season. On 4 different saves I did nothing spectacular manager-wise and saw my teams challenging for the title or promotion. Which brings me on to point 2...
2.. Everything was achieved whilst avoiding the transfer & loan market completely as not to better my squad. I used the default tactics so there was no need for me to use my managerial expertise *cough* trying to devise strategies to grind out results against better opposition. I never trained my players, it was left on default settings... thats another vital aspect of a managers role completely ignored, and neither me or my assistant gave any team talks - yet another vital aspect of managing a football team completely ignored.
Now if I had utilisied all of those aspects to the best of my ability I could accept the season I was having was down to good management. It wasn't. All I did was pick the starting 11 and use shouts in-game. Thats it, period! And thats all I did on all the saves I played. It should not be that easy wether you're Barnet or Barcelona.
Some people say all they have to do is press continue and win the league. I haven't experienced that myself. I've always had to have some input somewhere to achieve stuff, so there is hope yet ;)
Last edited by Erimus1876; 08-11-2011 at 14:59.
i never played FM11 that much due to lack of time.....how big a difference is it compared to this years?
Erimus, when I use your approach in my game, we get thrashed. I don't think you're lying or anything, I'm just saying that the game doesn't work like that for everybody and perhaps you are a part of the unlucky minority who experience bugs with the AI etc.
edit: OMG what kind of testing is that Erimus? Using shouts? Come on. That's basically changing the sliders and therefore your whole tactics. Shouts win games on their own. You can't use shouts and than say that the game is too easy. If you use the right shouts, that means you are using the right tactics and in League 2, sorry but that will get you promoted irl too.
Erimus, are you going to answer my question about trying the same technique with the weakest team in a more competitive league?
Is the Barnet save you have done any different to what Hull achieved a few years back, or Blackpool last season? Newcastle this year are the only unbeaten team in the EPL out with Man City, it would be interesting to see if you carried that form the the remainder of the season.
Ok I can accept that. But surely I should have to do more than just pick the starting 11 with the worst team in the league to see them pushing for promotion, possibly well safe of relegation before the halfway point in a season?
I used default tactics because I know its so easy to unwittingly exploit some AI flaw with player made ones, I honestly never knew shouts were so FUBAR'd too
Last edited by Erimus1876; 08-11-2011 at 17:09.
I have not started my save yet but some of the results I have seen is ridicolous, for instance I have just gone through on the Newcastle team thread and seen a person in their second season beat Arsenal 5-0 away from home. Is that realistic or what?
i thought shouts were just a kinda shortcut to adjust tactics??
Ill say OMG now, what shouts could be so important in real life or in game, that you can win games without doint nothing except shouts ? SO that makes game balanced?! Ok, now i know... new name for FM is Football Shouts!
Btw. Erimus- what MIRACLE shouts have u used? Maybe its bug in shouts! Ironic.
Actually the only saves where I got a good challenge from the beginning (there's 2 of them) were the ones where I edited TA's. But SI have said TA's don't work like that and have no impact on AI strength.
I'm trying the no-shouts and morale levelling FMRTE method from now on!
Last edited by Erimus1876; 08-11-2011 at 20:56. Reason: Spelling
Again tho with Barnet have you achieved anything more than Hull did at the same point a few years ago? They were HUGE relegation candidates and yet were top 6 at xmas.
Well shouts are basically telling your team how to play, a.k.a. tactics. Problem?
PS: I never use tactics sliders. I just select a formation and give duties, then just use shouts to define how we play. And it's greatly effective so that's why when I didn't use any of those the team actually got relegated. Good to find this out, hopefully they'll only tweak motivation and do nothing else yet
I'm not convinced the game is too easy just from some screenshots that some people are showing, and claims that are made along with those. There are many times that the AI doesn't do a great job with it's rotation, tactical selection, etc. and sometimes it pays a price for it. That's unavoidable. And if players choose to use every potential calculcated advantage available to them as a player, they will always beat the game. That's also unavoidable.
In general terms though, while I'm overachieving, I'm not doing so by a massive factor. I'm playing with LLM rules and not using any tactical exploits, and while I've climbed two divisions in nine seasons I'm struggling to stay at the top level (having gone down and bounced up once already). The challenge could be slightly harder, but I think incremental improvements to AI decision making and addressing tactical exploits will achieve this (and the morale smoothing out that PaulC mentioned certainly won't hurt).
The only save I've tried in a bigger league was Napoli, but it was a test save with modified TA's trying to make the game harder. I think I was 5th (pred. 8th) doing well under the circumstances of a minimal managerial influence game. Although to answer your question you only need to read other peoples testimonies of managing in bigger leagues and see their screenshots (one that springs to mind is Swansea finishing 4th or 5th in season 1 - yes doable, but come on!) My opinion would be it would be harder in a bigger league, but thats not the point. Surely there should be a modicrum of challenge for all levels of the game?
Last edited by Erimus1876; 08-11-2011 at 20:57.
A poll really will prove nothing on this matter.
Personally i dont see any difference from FM11, after 5 seasons , 1 cup win and 1 3rd place finish in the SPL with Aberdeen, my team goes on good runs and bad runs from time to time. What i have noticed is a bit of an improvement in the AI squad building, so far in my 6th season Celtic are unbeaten in Feb and have amassed a fantastic squad of players and found some gems i never knew about.
Last edited by milnerpoint; 08-11-2011 at 15:41.
Same here, I think the difficulty is just the same as FM11
Erimus1876- can you tell me what shouts you use in the saves? All of them or specific?
Ok, so what would you put it down to?, because at this point I'm out of ideas. Its not a fantasy in peoples imaginations that the game is easy. There's loads on here and other threads all saying the same thing (yes the minority, but that doesn't make it a non-problem). I know you are finding this years game just as challenging as last years, but I'm interested in hearing from someone who is very experienced with the game and doesn't come across as biased against its ease (I know you're an advocate for better AI squad building ;)). What do you think the common denominator with all these easy games could be? I still think its morale-related personally. Shouts or no shouts
Using your Barnet game as an example, i would imagine what has happened is, you take over a team with a good enough rep you increase the moral of your team, you then have a good pre-season, by the time the 1st league game comes around, your team is flying and they dont lose this despite a few hiccups along the way. You dont need a team meeting because as things stand your moral wont drop in a hurry, you dont need huge tactical adjustments for each game as your team is going out confident and by reading your posts you are changing things as you go along when needed. Your predicted to finish 24th, but i dont pay attention to that ever, Aberdeen are predicted to finish 4th in the 1st season, any realistic dons fan will tell you that is never going to be possible for us at the moment.
Long term im very interested to see how this years version goes, like i say early signs are that the squad building is better, but only 10-15 seasons will really show that. Hopefully my usage of FMRTE will be less this time around, although i did enjoy watching Scottish teams like Partick or Dundee spending £15m in a season
Last edited by milnerpoint; 08-11-2011 at 16:05.
I think there is a huge difference between a couple of games in the real world, like the 6-1 match or the 8-2 match discussed further up, and going unbeaten most part of the season in the FM world with some of the teams in the screenshots presented in this thread...
Initially its a bit of a mess on, but after you've made your preset its very quick and easy to implement it.
game is way to easy. I have played cm since 1996 and this version is the most boring so far. i played it 6-7 hours before i got bored of it. I can play for weaks if games are fun.
Just to easy to win and feels way to easy get very good players. i played 38 games and won 35 of em with a good team.
Plz SI make either difficulty levels in the game or at least make game much harder so the old player base that have sponsored and made this game where it is today can have their challange addicted brains satisfied.
It's weird. When I was on the demo, in the prem (with Man Utd but bare with me), it seemed really easy.
When the full game out I started a game with Crystal Palace. It took me 3 seasons to gain promotion, first season just missed out on playoffs, second lost in playoff final, third I finished second.
Now, in my fourth season I came 6th in the Premiership... I did improve my squad, I got Ben Foster in goal, Birmingham's Zayatte and Nedum Onuoha in defence, but they aren't actually really great defenders and I managed to came 6th. All while beating the likes of Chelsea (although they had a really bad season), Man Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool and drawing to Man City.
Maybe the Premiership gets too easy somehow? But maybe I just had a good season and it will be more difficult as I try to avoid second season syndrome... I hope so.
People who are fine with the game as it is don't get the point of football and FM likewise. Nothing is "for sure" in football and it shouldn't be in FM. While reading different FM forums I noticed that the most common saying of ones who advocate and defend the game is "well what do you expect if you take Arsenal, Liverpool, Barca...Take WBA or Nancy or whatever". That argument (if you can call it that) is extremly dumb, and nobody should tell nobody which team to take. Hell, I don't wanna take Lecce, I don't like the team. I support Napoli and I want to play the challenge that suits Napoli- first few seasons fight for CL, then maybe win a title, but I don't want nothing to be guaranteed as nothing is guaranteed in real life football, no matter how much money you have, no matter how good your side is. In the past I think FM got that. You wouldn't be guaranteed the title even if you had the best players with the shiniest atributes, all 19s and 20' didn't matter because anything could happen, and there are zillion factors that decide who is going to be a champion.
Everybody wants to win, but there is no point in winning if you don't earn it, if you just click continue and win. I'm not happy, because I feel my input in this game, me changing the tactics and buying the players means nothing!
And to make things worse, it's not the case that you can't play farely with big clubs, it's the case with all of them as Barnett screenshots showed...
Managing a top club should be harder, more pressure from everywhere, players, fans, media, board. Week after week, day after day. But it would probably prevent a lot of people to manage a top club. That's the big challenge for the coders and obviously nothing fot a patch, as it needs a lot more than just some adjustments.
OK, so at first I found the game much too easy, and wasn't afraid to say so, but I've started a new save with the same team as before (Hannover), and I think I have to revise my opinion. It feels pretty much just like FM2011 now in terms of difficulty, and I'm getting very realistic results. Really enjoying it, too.
I'm changing my opinion to the game being too easy in certain circumstances, but just fine in others. What those circumstances are, then, is the question, I suppose.