FM2012 difficulty.

[egesagin]

I think in the lower leagues, a good tactic should let you do that. Nobody blamed god when Brian Clough did it, or did they?

and that's because in lower leagues there isn't a huge difference between clubs and as for the managers, well I probably wouldn't let them manage my school team. We are all Mourinho's compared to those managers.. At least in the game, irl of course not but than if they made it THAT realistic, only a thousand or so players could achieve something in FM, the others throwing the game to the bin asap.

[lee_uk]

1.We can\'t skip the patch because it fixes a lot of stuff.
2.We don\'t have a whole day to play games.
3.We are the majority and that\'s where money are.

WTF is all this....someone ban the clown.

[grep]

no offence pls, this thread MUST remain fair despite the hijacking tries

[JimbobWWFC]

The issue is that it is too easy to go on a long winning/losing streak due to how morale engine works. So for e.g. if you start the season with a win or two, you can go on a long winning streak with ease even with a team predicted for relegation (without changing tactics or bothering with team talks). This is because the morale stays 'superb' most of time during that streak. On the other hand, if you start the season badly, you can go on a long losing streak making the game harder for some people. This is because the morale stays 'poor/very poor/ok' most of time during that streak. So it seems that morale has too much effect on a match outcome.

I'm not disagreeing with this post; I just picked it out because of the comments about losing streaks. Doesn't anyone use team meetings to boost squad confidence and get players' morale back to decent levels? That has worked for me.

(And it has also worked for me conversely when we have been on a good run of form, and I've destroyed their confidence by saying something silly in a team meeting and their morale changed to abysmal for a few players... but let's not go any more into that!!)

[stf1979]

When it will be released the next update / patch?
The game it's not enjoyable, doesn't give any challenge...

[jase19]

So you enjoy just clicking continue and winning? How fun.

i click continue and do not consistantly win. *shrug*

[Casual]

When it will be released the next update / patch?
The game it's not enjoyable, doesn't give any challenge...

I'd like to know that as wel... I just beat Milan away 4-5 in my Napoli save and I just can't play anymore until something changes. There aren't any major changes in design or game functions in FM 2012, so I'd at least expect the gameplay that properly works, and the playable game! I don't wanna be "hostile" as Paul said, I'll give any inputs I can if needed, but at this moment I see nothing more than a transfer updated FM 2011 with less reality.

[jase19]

I'd like to know that as wel... I just beat Milan away 4-5 in my Napoli save and I just can't play anymore until something changes. There aren't any major changes in design or game functions in FM 2012, so I'd at least expect the gameplay that properly works, and the playable game! I don't wanna be "hostile" as Paul said, I'll give any inputs I can if needed, but at this moment I see nothing more than a transfer updated FM 2011 with less reality.

you won by a goal and that is just unacceptable? didn't napoli finish 3rd in serie a? wouldn't call that far fetched......

[Casual]

you won by a goal and that is just unacceptable? didn't napoli finish 3rd in serie a? wouldn't call that far fetched......

If you've read the past pages of this topic you'd know what i'm talking about...and you would've seen the screenshots i posted

[jase19]

If you've read the past pages of this topic you'd know what i'm talking about...and you would've seen the screenshots i posted

i have read the past pages, sorry i didn't take particular note to your posts... you've won the serie a i presume? beat man utd, barca, real madrid on the way to raising the champions league trophy? just a guess...

[Casual]

i have read the past pages, sorry i didn't take particular note to your posts... you've won the serie a i presume? beat man utd, barca, real madrid on the way to raising the champions league trophy? just a guess...

Actually I've just played against Real and Milan after the screenshots and that's it... Now with the rest of the flock I'm eagerly waiting for an update in hope for better & more realistical manager days...

[jase19]

Actually I've just played against Real and Milan after the screenshots and that's it... Now with the rest of the flock I'm eagerly waiting for an update in hope for better & more realistical manager days...

i just found your screens.

how did you do against real? play both legs?

[Casual]

Played the first one and lost 1-2. Was relieved to finally lose, but then I played Milan and gained a 1-5 lead with no trying to win whatsoever, no changing tactics or anything...and totally lost the will to play the game...

[jase19]

Played the first one and lost 1-2. Was relieved to finally lose, but then I played Milan and gained a 1-5 lead with no trying to win whatsoever, no changing tactics or anything...and totally lost the will to play the game...

to me, that's just telling you to go play in la liga :P

barca have knocked me out of the CL 2 years out of the last 3.

[egesagin]

Played the first one and lost 1-2. Was relieved to finally lose, but then I played Milan and gained a 1-5 lead with no trying to win whatsoever, no changing tactics or anything...and totally lost the will to play the game...

Yeeees, because Milan is absolutely unbeatable, Napoli is a team of poor quality and your regular tactics can't be good. What an insanely impossibly unrealistic result that is! Wow!

[bleventozturk]

@FestyF: Well the update is coming and I agree with the morale thing, so did SI apparently. However I enden my losing streaks just after 4 games with a great inspiring team meeting and a big win after that. The team meeting feature is your ticket out of losing streaks and I think it's realistic too since you can fail and make the team much much worse too and the number of team meetings you can do are limited

Well, you won because you boosted your morale to a good level after that inspiring team meeting. This is not proving us wrong. You recovered from losing streak by pumping up your morale. Without the team meeting you would have very little chance, because it is all about morale in the current ME.

As human managers we use the tools in the game better, so for us it is easier to recover from a bad start by using the ingame tools to boost the morale, grind a win and continue from there. AI is not that good in using those tools, so once an AI controlled team starts bad, it continues bad for the rest of the season bc the morale never recovers. This explains why 30% says the game is too easy, and only 5% says the game is too hard. Those 5% are the minority who haven't mastered the team talks, team meetings, etc., and they continue their season with low morale, and whatever they do with their tactics, they keep losing, bc their morale is low.

Lie I said before, the morale being tweaked in the next patch will be better for everybody. So, those who find the game too hard, don't think that the game will be even harder. The game will be easier for you, and it will be harder for the 30% who say it is too easy.

[egesagin]

Your name suggests that you are Turkish. Consider last seasons Galatasaray. Actually consider last two years'. Although their squad was pretty good, the both seasons,they lost many many points to smaller teams and that was mainly because of their morale and lack of confidence so it isn't so unrealistic. Yes the team talks need tweaking but still, low morale DO cause losing streaks even for the biggest clubs in real life

[bleventozturk]

So it should be ok to go on a neverending winning streak with a team predicted for relegation? The stronger AI clubs should be competitive enough to stop letting you go on such winning streaks because of the difference in player qualities.

Exactly. At the end of the day player quality should overcome morale at some point.

I played so many matches observing this. When the morale is high, get your worst player from U-18 team and put him in the line-up. He will play just as good as everybody else on your team. Or put your striker on stopper position, or play your CB as a striker, they will still perform.

Hopefully the tweak on the morale will fix this somewhat, but in the long run the ME should go through a drastic change until we can start being able to tell a good player from your worst one while watching the matches in the graphical representation. Right now I can't tell my best players from the worst youngster in my team when I watch them in the ME, nor their stats show the difference in their quality. If the morale is good, everybody plays well, if the morale is bad, nobody plays well. Just keep the morale high, you will win your league with the worst roster in the league.

[egesagin]

Like I said, irl poor morale causes the best squads to perform miserably. Apart from that, AI must be smarter. I definitely agree on that

[bleventozturk]

Your name suggests that you are Turkish. Consider last seasons Galatasaray. Actually consider last two years'. Although their squad was pretty good, the both seasons,they lost many many points to smaller teams and that was mainly because of their morale and lack of confidence so it isn't so unrealistic. Yes the team talks need tweaking but still, low morale DO cause losing streaks even for the biggest clubs in real life

Yes, I'm Turkish, just like you
I agree with you, of course it should be effective, but what we have in FM is overkill.

For example, do you think Genclerbirligi can win the league this year? Sure enough, they just beat Besiktas 4-2 this past weekend, those results happen when one team with lower quality is highly motivated and the better team is complacent. But it only happens every once in a while. In my game I took Genclerbirligi, and after having a good start to the saeson nobody can stop me. Ermin Zec scores 1 goal a game, Hursut Meric becomes a Messi and starts running circles around opposition defenders EVERY match I play, etc.

If the morale will remain as effective as it is in the ME right now, at least it should be harder to achieve (and maintain) high morale, and this is what PAul has tweaked as far as I understand. It is a step in the right direction. It should shorten the neverending winning streaks and we shall have a more realistic game.

[bleventozturk]

Your name suggests that you are Turkish. Consider last seasons Galatasaray. Actually consider last two years'. Although their squad was pretty good, the both seasons,they lost many many points to smaller teams and that was mainly because of their morale and lack of confidence so it isn't so unrealistic. Yes the team talks need tweaking but still, low morale DO cause losing streaks even for the biggest clubs in real life

Galatasaray didn't really have the best players to be succesfull though. They especially lacked quality in the midfield where they had to play the likes of Ayhan, Baris Ozbek most of the season. Other than that, they kept buying many new players recently, so building team chemistry becomes hard too when you do that. Finally this year they got some better players (then again they lost a very good one in Arda), and hey are already a better team, I can see it. Results show it too.

[egesagin]

I don't know, I didn't have any unrealistic occasions in the Turkish leagues, except from my performance lol. I get your point though, if other people experience that kind of stuff, than it should be fixed. And like I said, the motivation patch was needed and will do good. But AI managers need a major work, hopefully they will make it for 2013..

[bleventozturk]

I don't know, I didn't have any unrealistic occasions in the Turkish leagues, except from my performance lol. I get your point though, if other people experience that kind of stuff, than it should be fixed. And like I said, the motivation patch was needed and will do good. But AI managers need a major work, hopefully they will make it for 2013..

I agree with you on that. If they can improve the AI managers so that they can use the tools in the game as good as we can, that would be the best. But that's a lot more difficult task than tweaking the effect of morale/how easy good morale is achieved. Hopefully in the future versions.

[JamboSteven]

Go an average League 1 or 2 team, that way you'll get a good challenge. Things that you may not notice as the manager of Man Utd (e.g. agent fees) make improving your squad very difficult and more time consuming.

[Erimus1876]

Go an average League 1 or 2 team, that way you'll get a good challenge. Things that you may not notice as the manager of Man Utd (e.g. agent fees) make improving your squad very difficult and more time consuming.

What, you mean like this?
Barnet - media prediction 24th.



No transfers.
Default Tactics.
No Training.
No Team Talks.




Not only did the opposition rarely beat me, they stopped scoring against me too. That was the last straw.
The league table at the time of me giving up in dissapointment at the games ease.





I was 2 points off automatic promotion, 26 points ahead of my predicted 24th.
Had the best defence in the league.
I bought no one.
I used the default 442.




Or like this 2nd save with Barnet (remember them? the worst team in the football league?)...

Again,
No transfers.
Default Tactics.
No Training.
No Team Talks.






If I can recover my Bishop Stortford and Hartlepool saves I'll post their massive over-achievement with minimal effort too.

Point is. The argument of being a small team = a challenge is not true anymore, especially in FM12. Yes some people are finding it a challenge. But some people are not - it does not matter what team you manage.

Be thankful you have a save going that is challenging and fun. A lot of people still haven't had that pleasure yet, and the games been out what? 2 weeks?

[shirajzl]

Yes some people are finding it a challenge. But some people are not - it does not matter what team you manage.

Be thankful you have a save going that is challenging and fun.

You say that yet completely fail to see the point. SI have explicitly said they didn't intent to introduce any kind of difficulty settings in FM. As a result, this campaign of yours will make them publish an update which will make the game more difficult (with no option of keeping it this "easy"). Consequently, those who find FM 12 just right at the moment will suffer. Your side will be happy, but others will start to moan just like you do now. We will be going in circles.

[JimbobWWFC]

You say that yet completely fail to see the point. SI have explicitly said they didn't intent to introduce any kind of difficulty settings in FM. As a result, this campaign of yours will make them publish an update which will make the game more difficult (with no option of keeping it this "easy"). Consequently, those who find FM 12 just right at the moment will suffer. Your side will be happy, but others will start to moan just like you do now. We will be going in circles.

Exactly. SI can't please everyone.

Erimus, have you tried this test with the poorest team in a more competitive league, where the gap between the top and the bottom might be bigger?

[milnerpoint]

It has to be a fine balance, and people on here really need to accept there will NEVER be a difficulty setting in FM, its not that kind of game. The only option really is to improve the AI for us longer term gamers and improve the manuals and tutorials for those less experienced players.

For what its worth 5 seasons in i have not noticed this version any easier from FM11, not in the slightest.

[milnerpoint]

. Yes some people are finding it a challenge. But some people are not - it does not matter what team you manage.

So on that basis do you think SI should be focusing on making your side of the argument happy and leave behind those who do find it difficult?
Can i ask how long have you played FM for?

[FestyF]

You say that yet completely fail to see the point. SI have explicitly said they didn't intent to introduce any kind of difficulty settings in FM. As a result, this campaign of yours will make them publish an update which will make the game more difficult (with no option of keeping it this "easy"). Consequently, those who find FM 12 just right at the moment will suffer. Your side will be happy, but others will start to moan just like you do now. We will be going in circles.

He has not failed to see the point. The new update will tweak the morale system which will not only make it challenging for those who are finding it easy but will also make it easier for those who are finding it hard. Read PaulC's posts in the last few pages and you will know what I'm talking about.

[Erimus1876]

You say that yet completely fail to see the point. SI have explicitly said they didn't intent to introduce any kind of difficulty settings in FM. As a result, this campaign of yours will make them publish an update which will make the game more difficult (with no option of keeping it this "easy"). Consequently, those who find FM 12 just right at the moment will suffer. Your side will be happy, but others will start to moan just like you do now. We will be going in circles.

They're not introducing a difficulty level though. They're making what will no doubt be a minor adjustment to morale or the effect team talks have on players whose reputation is higher than the managers. I very much doubt it'll make much difference. If you had read my earlier post about letting players mod the game themselves via the editor you'll realise I'm against skill levels as I don't think they'll work and will again just be subjective to each person anyway.

Bandaid fixes rarely work and like you said, they can upset one set of players over another. Here's the direction I think SI should take this difficulty level issue (if its viable)...

I don't think its necessary, or particualrly viable to add an option in preferences for hard mode. What determines whats hard and easy? SI ?

I believe the only way forward is for SI to make next years editor include all the parameter settings for..

• Morale effectiveness
• Team Talk effectiveness
• Training effectiveness
• Team meetings effectiveness
• Match Preperation effectiveness
• AI transfer intensity
• AI newgen parameters that allow us to set minimum and maximum attributes upon their creation (very important to long-term games!)
• And the ability to mod AI tactics so if an exploit is found, we can tweak AI tactics to make it less effective

Handing those options over to the playerbase would save SI countless time trying to balance the game for everyone since we'd be able to create our own databases as hard or as easy as we'd like them to be.

Unfortunately its too late for FM 12 for all those options.

So on that basis do you think SI should be focusing on making your side of the argument happy and leave behind those who do find it difficult?
Can i ask how long have you played FM for?

My answer to that question is above, posted in this very thread yesterday? or the day before if you'd bothered to read the thread. I've played the game for 5 years, the first two very occasionally on a friends PC, the last 3 extensively once I got hooked.

Edit: removed uncalled for comments.

[milnerpoint]

You shouldn't assume anything, it makes you look daft. My answer to that question is above, posted in this very thread yesterday? or the day before if you'd bothered to read the thread. I've played the game for 5 years, the first two very occasionally on a friends PC, the last 3 extensively once I got hooked.

I didnt assume anything, i asked you a question, calm down.
Im not going to bother reading back through all 530 posts in this thread when i can ask you a simple question, again calm down a bit no need to get so defensive over it. But your answer backs up my thinking on the subject so thanks for that.

[imp44791]

The game feels easier this year, and I suspect it's due to the new team talk system being overpowered since the match engine hasn't changed. Speaking of the match engine, count me in with those who see too many woodwork strikes every game, for both myself and the AI. I have yet to play a game where there were none, and 3-5 is the more usual total. It feels ridiculous.

Back to difficulty: I always play LLM and I just restarted a save by picking a bottom division Turkish side that had just got promoted. 10 games into the season I've only dropped 2 points, hammering everyone left and right and only conceding 6 so far. We're talking 6-0s and 5-1s away here and I'm not counting a cup win, since that was against semi-amateur opposition. I use my imported tactics from FM11 so that's also a constant variable. I've only signed 3 scrubs off the street to make up numbers, so it's not a question of talent level either. It does seem that the morale of the players is always sky high and it's very easy to find the team talk setting that will get everyone "green" across the board.

[Erimus1876]

I didnt assume anything, i asked you a question, calm down.
Im not going to bother reading back through all 530 posts in this thread when i can ask you a simple question, again calm down a bit no need to get so defensive over it. But your answer backs up my thinking on the subject so thanks for that.

Ok fair enough milner. I'm just fed up with people coming on here saying be a small team if you want a challenge when they have no idea what the issue being discussed is. No doubt a lot of those people probably voted for the games just fine and skewed the results lol (but thats another story ).

[Fede_Gu]

Just my 2 cents.

I've noticed that this year if I set my past experience as "Sunday League" the game gives me a rep of 4500, instead of 1500 like in FM 11.

I'm not sure about implications, or if it's a bug, but it should be considered when starting a game for sure.

[Erimus1876]

Hmm thats interesting. If thats the case I wonder if all the other rep settings have been significanlty increased too?

[Olivierlandman]

The game feels easier this year, and I suspect it's due to the new team talk system being overpowered since the match engine hasn't changed. Speaking of the match engine, count me in with those who see too many woodwork strikes every game, for both myself and the AI. I have yet to play a game where there were none, and 3-5 is the more usual total. It feels ridiculous.

Back to difficulty: I always play LLM and I just restarted a save by picking a bottom division Turkish side that had just got promoted. 10 games into the season I've only dropped 2 points, hammering everyone left and right and only conceding 6 so far. We're talking 6-0s and 5-1s away here and I'm not counting a cup win, since that was against semi-amateur opposition. I use my imported tactics from FM11 so that's also a constant variable. I've only signed 3 scrubs off the street to make up numbers, so it's not a question of talent level either. It does seem that the morale of the players is always sky high and it's very easy to find the team talk setting that will get everyone "green" across the board.

A lot of people seem to get a lot of woodwork shots.. i've seen only three after 25 games @Manchester United

[FestyF]

Just my 2 cents.

I've noticed that this year if I set my past experience as "Sunday League" the game gives me a rep of 4500, instead of 1500 like in FM 11.

I'm not sure about implications, or if it's a bug, but it should be considered when starting a game for sure.

Wow that's something new. Can you please tell us what rep is given to 'semi-professional', 'professional' and 'International footballer' in both FM 11 and FM 12?

[Fede_Gu]

Yep.

Home Rep.

1. International Footballer FM 11 8000, FM 12 5500

2. Professional Footballer FM 11 6000, FM 12 5500


3. Semi-Professional Footballer FM 11 3250, FM 12 4499


4. Sunday League Footballer FM 11 1500, FM 12 4499

[Fede_Gu]

Current Rep.

1. International Footballer FM 11 8000, FM 12 8000

2. Professional Footballer FM 11 6000, FM 12 6000


3. Semi-Professional Footballer FM 11 3250, FM 12 3250


4. Sunday League Footballer FM 11 1500, FM 12 2750

[lee_uk]

hmmm..seriously considering going back fo FM11 now until maybe this years gets sorted

[FestyF]

What's the difference between Home rep. and current rep. Fed_Gu?

[Barkers]

i can only comment on what has happened in my gamesave so far and i do seem to be having an easier ride and better results than i have ever achived in past fm games.

Currently playing as Udinese in Seria A. Started the season with media prediction 10th but by March im top of the league, unbeaten in the 26 games to date with just 11 goals conceded. im 9 points clear of the second place team with 2 games in hand...

ive not got a squad of world beater by any means but iv managed to get big wins (as much as 4-0) against ac milan, inter and juve.

i never expected to get these kind of results so the game does seem to easier this time around.

*just wanted to add my assistant manager handles all pre-match pree confrences, team talks and post match press confrences and his man managment and motivation are both below 14

[Erimus1876]

hmmm..seriously considering going back fo FM11 now until maybe this years gets sorted

Its not that bad (despite my ranting ). I'm starting a save where I'm going to use FMRTE to reset my morale to neutral every 4 games or so. Maybe give it a try yourself and see how it goes? Not realistic I know but better than ditching a game you paid 30 quid for surely?

[Fede_Gu]

I'm not sure about this.
The strange part is that until FM 11 HR and CR had the same value at the start of the game. This year it's different.

I had to repeat I've no idea about implications but in a reputation based game I think it's an important change.

If anyone form SI could clarify this...

[Neo14]

Here I finished my first season with OM.

47 wins 59 games -----
Unbeaten in L1
Champion in L1
Winner of the CDF
Champions League winner against Barcelona
I don't buy players






To you to judge whether the game is too easy.*

If we could have a level difficulty in option menu it will be better for beginner and older players.

[Erimus1876]

If anyone form SI could clarify this...

They will, and they'll say its effect is negligible.

Just kidding SI

[Matej]

It has to be a fine balance, and people on here really need to accept there will NEVER be a difficulty setting in FM, its not that kind of game. The only option really is to improve the AI for us longer term gamers and improve the manuals and tutorials for those less experienced players.

For what its worth 5 seasons in i have not noticed this version any easier from FM11, not in the slightest.

NEVER say NEVER. Gap bettween casual gamers and experienced players is to big. Im reading lots of posts like "im new player and dont know nothing about tactic". - these players cant have same results as we who play for 20 years. But SI make them football GODS from beggining, making the game 2 easy.
While Ill be glad to help new players, there are other ways to help them. Like this forum for example. To make game easy is NEVER right way.

[Erimus1876]

Here I finished my first season with OM.

47 wins 59 games -----
Unbeaten in L1
Champion in L1
Winner of the CDF
Champions League winner against Barcelona
I don't buy players






To you to judge whether the game is too easy.

And I thought Barnet overachieved! Winning the league with Marseille is no biggie, but doing it unbeaten and throwing in the CL for good measure in the 1st season with no transfers too tells its only story. Did you lose any games at all (i.e. in Europe)?

[stoo_watp]

depends how easy you make it for yourself imo! i personally start at lowest rep manager and make my own tactics, sign different players etc etc! whereas others dl the amazing tactics from the web and buy the well known wonderkids etc so i think if u play the game realistically then it is a good challenge, not too hard tbf, but still challenging enough.

[Matej]

WHen you play first person shooter online experienced players are much better for first few months. You can feel the difference. In other games is the same. In FM i dont see the difference anymore. There is nothing to move you forward when you see pictures like in this thread.

[Erimus1876]

NEVER say NEVER. Gap bettween casual gamers and experienced players is to big. Im reading lots of posts like "im new player and dont know nothing about tactic". - these players cant have same results as we who play for 20 years. But SI make them football GODS from beggining, making the game 2 easy.
While Ill be glad to help new players, there are other ways to help them. Like this forum for example. To make game easy is NEVER right way.

To be fair I don't think making the game too easy was done on purpose. I think its a bug or change in morale (or even possibly rep going by recent posts), thats gone unnoticed whilst the game was in beta. I don't know.

[Matej]

M8, game is easy for years, last time i had little challenge was in FM07 i think... WHy there is never bug that makes game harder? FM 11 was easy, this year is even worse situation. I dont like to mention name(s) of other games in SI forums, but good games have 3 things: Challenge, fun and addictiveness. THese things are connected. FM had last 2 things, with so so challenge. Now FM complitlly lost challenge and because of that fun and addictiveness is lost 2.

Now its only good if you can find 10 or 20 online players to play in league. i dont like playing with people i dont know, and my mates all have wifes and jobs and they cant play anymore. So that leaves me for singleplayer FM, and FM12 is so easy that makes me sick.

[FestyF]

The more and more people I see complaining about the game being too easy, the more I fail to believe that the game was not made easier on purpose this year.

[Erimus1876]

M8, game is easy for years, last time i had little challenge was in FM07 i think... WHy there is never bug that makes game harder? FM 11 was easy, this year is even worse situation.

I know what I'm asking Santa for christmas now

[gate]

I voted "The game is too hard" in the first place. Mainly because I play Bayern and find it hard to get ride of losing streaks. My players played like idiot in losing streaks and I have no ideal how to solve it.

Then I read some article here saying how important morale is. I give it a try. Pick up players with highest morale, not skill, even play they slightly out of their best position. It turns out I end my losing streaks, won 2:1, both goals came from own goal of opposite. It's not the end. Next game I play away with my biggest rival, Dortmund, who beat me twice last season by 3 goals both home and away. I applied same "morale always comes first" policy and I won 3:0 and 2 of them are own goal. The last game I won 2:0 easily and I been given one own goal. In short, I been given 5 own goals in 3 winning games. I also noticed that with higher morale, even you're unlucky to score, the opposite with act like idiot to make sure they will lose.

Basically I do nothing but play players with highest morale to win the game. So I decide to change my mind on this subject. Count me out of "this game is too hard" and count me in "this game is too easy".

[jase19]

What, you mean like this?
Barnet - media prediction 24th.



No transfers.
Default Tactics.
No Training.
No Team Talks.




Not only did the opposition rarely beat me, they stopped scoring against me too. That was the last straw.
The league table at the time of me giving up in dissapointment at the games ease.





I was 2 points off automatic promotion, 26 points ahead of my predicted 24th.
Had the best defence in the league.
I bought no one.
I used the default 442.




Or like this 2nd save with Barnet (remember them? the worst team in the football league?)...

Again,
No transfers.
Default Tactics.
No Training.
No Team Talks.






If I can recover my Bishop Stortford and Hartlepool saves I'll post their massive over-achievement with minimal effort too.

Point is. The argument of being a small team = a challenge is not true anymore, especially in FM12. Yes some people are finding it a challenge. But some people are not - it does not matter what team you manage.

Be thankful you have a save going that is challenging and fun. A lot of people still haven't had that pleasure yet, and the games been out what? 2 weeks?

your game is in november.
no offense, you have points.... but how many times have we seen a newly promoted side or poor prem side have a fantastic run through the first half of the season with dreams of europe, only to come down to earth? and that's the premiership... not league 2 where it's not unheard of for double promotions and what not.

[elazulreal]

Its a matter of luck I think.

I started as Sunderland and it seemed easy for me finished the league 5th easily, but then started a new game with Schalke and it was disaster. I lost second match of the league against Köln 6-0

[milnerpoint]

Ok fair enough milner. I'm just fed up with people coming on here saying be a small team if you want a challenge when they have no idea what the issue being discussed is. No doubt a lot of those people probably voted for the games just fine and skewed the results lol (but thats another story ).

Yeah i have never been in that boat really, you pick the team you want and you should expect to enjoy the game no matter what. I do think the game is a bit easier with the big teams but purely because you have ample funds to sort out any issues and you will outspend the AI at all times, but thats another topic really. That doesnt mean that choosen Barnet or anyone else should be impossible to achieve anything.

Your last sentence is silly tho, who's to say they're not actually finding the game hard? Like i said i have not found FM12 any easier so far, infact in FM11 i had already won the league by the 5th season, right now im miles away from that. It really isnt as cut and dry as this thread makes out, that is why people come on and argue with you, at times the feeling from this thread is if you dont agree your an idiot and dont know what your talking about, both sides have their case and reasons, SI need to find a middle ground that suits all of these people, not just those finding it easy, or those finding it hard.

[milnerpoint]

NEVER say NEVER. Gap bettween casual gamers and experienced players is to big. Im reading lots of posts like "im new player and dont know nothing about tactic". - these players cant have same results as we who play for 20 years. But SI make them football GODS from beggining, making the game 2 easy.
While Ill be glad to help new players, there are other ways to help them. Like this forum for example. To make game easy is NEVER right way.

I thought id highlight for a laugh

No one made the game easier by design, i can promise you that even tho i dont work for SI. Your right you should never say never, but again i can safely say a difficulty level will not come into FM, its been said by Dev's plenty times already and i cannot see that changing in a hurry.

[lee_uk]

Its not that bad (despite my ranting ). I'm starting a save where I'm going to use FMRTE to reset my morale to neutral every 4 games or so. Maybe give it a try yourself and see how it goes? Not realistic I know but better than ditching a game you paid 30 quid for surely?

ive never used FMRTE at all...is it easy enough to use without too much messing about?
also,is it me or have SI gone quiet on this thread/topic???

[Matej]

I know how you feel. Its the same problem. i care for people who are finding game 2 hard, because something its not right and its the same problem. SI said that they will look at this , so we must be patient and wait. Problems are much bigger, but we would be happy with quick fix. In the future they need to change ME, because its with us for 2 many years. We know every angle of ME and we need the new beginning. YOu cant eat same food for 10 years every day, even its the best food you ever tasted.

[Erimus1876]

your game is in november.
no offense, you have points.... but how many times have we seen a newly promoted side or poor prem side have a fantastic run through the first half of the season with dreams of europe, only to come down to earth? and that's the premiership... not league 2 where it's not unheard of for double promotions and what not.

Thats true, but you missed the point I was making. Actually you missed 2 points.

1.. I specifically chose teams that should be trying to avoid relegation because I wanted to have a relegation battle season. On 4 different saves I did nothing spectacular manager-wise and saw my teams challenging for the title or promotion. Which brings me on to point 2...

2.. Everything was achieved whilst avoiding the transfer & loan market completely as not to better my squad. I used the default tactics so there was no need for me to use my managerial expertise *cough* trying to devise strategies to grind out results against better opposition. I never trained my players, it was left on default settings... thats another vital aspect of a managers role completely ignored, and neither me or my assistant gave any team talks - yet another vital aspect of managing a football team completely ignored.

Now if I had utilisied all of those aspects to the best of my ability I could accept the season I was having was down to good management. It wasn't. All I did was pick the starting 11 and use shouts in-game. Thats it, period! And thats all I did on all the saves I played. It should not be that easy wether you're Barnet or Barcelona.


Some people say all they have to do is press continue and win the league. I haven't experienced that myself. I've always had to have some input somewhere to achieve stuff, so there is hope yet

[lee_uk]

i never played FM11 that much due to lack of time.....how big a difference is it compared to this years?

[egesagin]

Erimus, when I use your approach in my game, we get thrashed. I don't think you're lying or anything, I'm just saying that the game doesn't work like that for everybody and perhaps you are a part of the unlucky minority who experience bugs with the AI etc.

edit: OMG what kind of testing is that Erimus? Using shouts? Come on. That's basically changing the sliders and therefore your whole tactics. Shouts win games on their own. You can't use shouts and than say that the game is too easy. If you use the right shouts, that means you are using the right tactics and in League 2, sorry but that will get you promoted irl too.

[Matej]

I thought id highlight for a laugh

No one made the game easier by design, i can promise you that even tho i dont work for SI. Your right you should never say never, but again i can safely say a difficulty level will not come into FM, its been said by Dev's plenty times already and i cannot see that changing in a hurry.

HAHA. Good 1 on me. Never say never except when I say NEVER.

[JimbobWWFC]

Erimus, are you going to answer my question about trying the same technique with the weakest team in a more competitive league?

[milnerpoint]

edit: OMG what kind of testing is that Erimus? Using shouts? Come on. That's basically changing the sliders and therefore your whole tactics. Shouts win games on their own. You can't use shouts and than say that the game is too easy. If you use the right shouts, that means you are using the right tactics and in League 2, sorry but that will get you promoted irl too.

I was going to say that, minus the OMG , i do very little in the main tactics screen, i use touchline shouts for all i want to achieve, i have done since they came into the game, they can have a huge effect on the out come of a game.

Is the Barnet save you have done any different to what Hull achieved a few years back, or Blackpool last season? Newcastle this year are the only unbeaten team in the EPL out with Man City, it would be interesting to see if you carried that form the the remainder of the season.

[Erimus1876]

Erimus, when I use your approach in my game, we get thrashed. I don't think you're lying or anything, I'm just saying that the game doesn't work like that for everybody and perhaps you are a part of the unlucky minority who experience bugs with the AI etc.

edit: OMG what kind of testing is that Erimus? Using shouts? Come on. That's basically changing the sliders and therefore your whole tactics. Shouts win games on their own. You can't use shouts and than say that the game is too easy. If you use the right shouts, that means you are using the right tactics and in League 2, sorry but that will get you promoted irl too.

Wait, so you're saying shouts are massively overpowered too?

Ok I can accept that. But surely I should have to do more than just pick the starting 11 with the worst team in the league to see them pushing for promotion, possibly well safe of relegation before the halfway point in a season?

I used default tactics because I know its so easy to unwittingly exploit some AI flaw with player made ones, I honestly never knew shouts were so FUBAR'd too

[ReggaeBwoy]

I have not started my save yet but some of the results I have seen is ridicolous, for instance I have just gone through on the Newcastle team thread and seen a person in their second season beat Arsenal 5-0 away from home. Is that realistic or what?

[lee_uk]

i thought shouts were just a kinda shortcut to adjust tactics??

[Matej]

Ill say OMG now, what shouts could be so important in real life or in game, that you can win games without doint nothing except shouts ? SO that makes game balanced?! Ok, now i know... new name for FM is Football Shouts!

Btw. Erimus- what MIRACLE shouts have u used? Maybe its bug in shouts! Ironic.

[milnerpoint]

I have not started my save yet but some of the results I have seen is ridicolous, for instance I have just gone through on the Newcastle team thread and seen a person in their second season beat Arsenal 5-0 away from home. Is that realistic or what?

What would you have thought if you saw someone post a screen shot of Man City beating United 6-1 at Old Trafford in the 1st season had the game not happened in real life?

[Erimus1876]

I was going to say that, minus the OMG , i do very little in the main tactics screen, i use touchline shouts for all i want to achieve, i have done since they came into the game, they can have a huge effect on the out come of a game.

Is the Barnet save you have done any different to what Hull achieved a few years back, or Blackpool last season? Newcastle this year are the only unbeaten team in the EPL out with Man City, it would be interesting to see if you carried that form the the remainder of the season.

Its not a one-off though. Yes its possible, but when the first 4 saves you start all go the same way its not a one off and is soul destroying to a point lol.

Actually the only saves where I got a good challenge from the beginning (there's 2 of them) were the ones where I edited TA's. But SI have said TA's don't work like that and have no impact on AI strength.

I'm trying the no-shouts and morale levelling FMRTE method from now on!

[milnerpoint]

Wait, so you're saying shouts are massively overpowered?

Ok I can accept that. But surely I should have to do more than just pick the starting 11 with the worst team in the league to see them pushing for promotion, possibly well safe of relegation before the halfway point in a season.

I used default tactics because I know its so easy to unwittingly exploit some AI flaw with player made ones, I honestly never knew shouts were so FUBAR'd too

Im not going to dispute the whole thing with you, but you have chosen a solid tactic in a league where solidity is one of the most vital aspects of tactical building, and you have made constant tactical adjustments to suit each game by using shouts, shouts arent over powered, they are tactical changes to the way your team is set up, some will have a huge effect depending on opposition and various other things.

Again tho with Barnet have you achieved anything more than Hull did at the same point a few years ago? They were HUGE relegation candidates and yet were top 6 at xmas.

[egesagin]

Well shouts are basically telling your team how to play, a.k.a. tactics. Problem?

PS: I never use tactics sliders. I just select a formation and give duties, then just use shouts to define how we play. And it's greatly effective so that's why when I didn't use any of those the team actually got relegated. Good to find this out, hopefully they'll only tweak motivation and do nothing else yet

[milnerpoint]

Its not a one-off though. Yes its possible, but when the first 4 saves you start all go the same way its not a one off and is sole destroying to a point lol.

Actually the only saves where I got a good challenge from the off (2 of them) were the ones where I edited TA's. But SI have said TA's don't work like that and have no impact on AI strength.

I'm trying the no-shouts and morale levelling FMRTE method from now on!

Yes but others have done saves following your method and failed massively, thats why i say its not as cut and dry as is being made out, if this was a massive issue it would be across the board, i would have won the league by now, not struggling for 5 seasons to break top 3. It does appear with the right set of circumstances things can get too easy, SI will work on that, but it doesnt mean they have dumbed down the game or anything.

[ReggaeBwoy]

What would you have thought if you saw someone post a screen shot of Man City beating United 6-1 at Old Trafford in the 1st season had the game not happened in real life?

Good point but just seems odd, Man City are worth billions so I wouldnt put it past someone and when I see FM players posting screenshots finishing 2nd with a team such as Blackburn (which I have seen) I do find that strange and unrealistic. When i have played FM in recent years the difficulty level as always been just about right but from what people are claiming and screenshots I do think if the game is being made too easy.

[Erimus1876]

Im not going to dispute the whole thing with you, but you have chosen a solid tactic in a league where solidity is one of the most vital aspects of tactical building, and you have made constant tactical adjustments to suit each game by using shouts, shouts arent over powered, they are tactical changes to the way your team is set up, some will have a huge effect depending on opposition and various other things.

Again tho with Barnet have you achieved anything more than Hull did at the same point a few years ago? They were HUGE relegation candidates and yet were top 6 at xmas.

Ok, so there's a problem with shouts & tactics. I can accept that. But is it so big a problem that it can effectively negate the need to strengthen a poor team in the transfer market, avoid the need to even converse with your players, train them, and no need for team meetings, plus a lot of other things a manager should do? Basically become a spectator who shouts abuse from the stands and gets his team to win the league? Besides, if you look at many of the other screen shots showing over-achievement (the Marseille one being the latest) it shows this problem doesn't matter what team you are or what level you're playing at. Maybe we should run a poll and see how many overachievers used shouts.

[milnerpoint]

Good point but just seems odd, Man City are worth billions so I wouldnt put it past someone and when I see FM players posting screenshots finishing 2nd with a team such as Blackburn (which I have seen) I do find that strange and unrealistic. When i have played FM in recent years the difficulty level as always been just about right but from what people are claiming and screenshots I do think if the game is being made too easy.

So you really thought there was a possibility of Man United getting the biggest home defeat in their history? Come on, i know they say expect the unexpected but no one in the world thought City would win that game by 5 goals, and it could have been a lot more. Did anyone think United would put 8 goals past Arsenal, even tho they were in a bad shape at the time?

[hugo_rune]

I'm not convinced the game is too easy just from some screenshots that some people are showing, and claims that are made along with those. There are many times that the AI doesn't do a great job with it's rotation, tactical selection, etc. and sometimes it pays a price for it. That's unavoidable. And if players choose to use every potential calculcated advantage available to them as a player, they will always beat the game. That's also unavoidable.

In general terms though, while I'm overachieving, I'm not doing so by a massive factor. I'm playing with LLM rules and not using any tactical exploits, and while I've climbed two divisions in nine seasons I'm struggling to stay at the top level (having gone down and bounced up once already). The challenge could be slightly harder, but I think incremental improvements to AI decision making and addressing tactical exploits will achieve this (and the morale smoothing out that PaulC mentioned certainly won't hurt).

[Erimus1876]

Erimus, are you going to answer my question about trying the same technique with the weakest team in a more competitive league?

Sorry, I didn't see it.

The only save I've tried in a bigger league was Napoli, but it was a test save with modified TA's trying to make the game harder. I think I was 5th (pred. 8th) doing well under the circumstances of a minimal managerial influence game. Although to answer your question you only need to read other peoples testimonies of managing in bigger leagues and see their screenshots (one that springs to mind is Swansea finishing 4th or 5th in season 1 - yes doable, but come on!) My opinion would be it would be harder in a bigger league, but thats not the point. Surely there should be a modicrum of challenge for all levels of the game?

[milnerpoint]

Ok, so there's a problem with shouts & tactics. I can accept that. But is it so big a problem that it can effectively negate the need to strengthen a poor team in the transfer market, avoid the need to even converse with your players, train them, and no need for team meetings, plus a lot of other things a manager should do? Basically become a spectator who shouts abuse from the stands and gets his team to win the league? Besides, if you look at many of the other screen shots showing over-achievement (the Marseille one being the latest) it shows this problem doesn't matter what team you are or what level you're playing at. Maybe we should run a poll and see how many overachievers used shouts.

Who said shouts were the problem??? Thats basically saying tactical changes have too much of an effect on the out come of a game, if shouts didnt really do anything what would be the point of them? They are designed so you dont have to go into the tactics menu all the time when you want to change things about. If anything at times they dont do exactly what you would want. If you have a solid tactic, a team in good moral, and a manager who knows when and what to change when things are going wrong who knows what you could achieve. Blackpool did fantasticly well with what was essentially a Championship team, infact they lost players to the Championship as they are such a small club, but they had a fantastic set up and mentality, that made the big difference for them.

A poll really will prove nothing on this matter.

[ReggaeBwoy]

So you really thought there was a possibility of Man United getting the biggest home defeat in their history? Come on, i know they say expect the unexpected but no one in the world thought City would win that game by 5 goals, and it could have been a lot more. Did anyone think United would put 8 goals past Arsenal, even tho they were in a bad shape at the time?

Your right but there is so much people complaining, how do you find the game? I hope it isnt as easy as people claim.

[milnerpoint]

Your right but there is so much people complaining, how do you find the game? I hope it isnt as easy as people claim.

All im really saying is dont look too much into a single result. I lost 7-1 at home to Rangers in my previous season, doesnt mean my team is terrible, i made some horrible mistakes as did my team and a freak result happened.

Personally i dont see any difference from FM11, after 5 seasons , 1 cup win and 1 3rd place finish in the SPL with Aberdeen, my team goes on good runs and bad runs from time to time. What i have noticed is a bit of an improvement in the AI squad building, so far in my 6th season Celtic are unbeaten in Feb and have amassed a fantastic squad of players and found some gems i never knew about.

[egesagin]

Same here, I think the difficulty is just the same as FM11

[Erimus1876]

Your right but there is so much people complaining, how do you find the game? I hope it isnt as easy as people claim.

Its only easy for some. The poll results will tell you that. It just seems some people are having great success without really feeling as they've had to do much input to achieve it, whilst others (the majority) see no difference in difficulty from last years game.

[Matej]

Erimus1876- can you tell me what shouts you use in the saves? All of them or specific?

[Erimus1876]

Who said shouts were the problem??? Thats basically saying tactical changes have too much of an effect on the out come of a game, if shouts didnt really do anything what would be the point of them? They are designed so you dont have to go into the tactics menu all the time when you want to change things about. If anything at times they dont do exactly what you would want. If you have a solid tactic, a team in good moral, and a manager who knows when and what to change when things are going wrong who knows what you could achieve. Blackpool did fantasticly well with what was essentially a Championship team, infact they lost players to the Championship as they are such a small club, but they had a fantastic set up and mentality, that made the big difference for them.

A poll really will prove nothing on this matter.

Fair enough.

Ok, so what would you put it down to?, because at this point I'm out of ideas. Its not a fantasy in peoples imaginations that the game is easy. There's loads on here and other threads all saying the same thing (yes the minority, but that doesn't make it a non-problem). I know you are finding this years game just as challenging as last years, but I'm interested in hearing from someone who is very experienced with the game and doesn't come across as biased against its ease (I know you're an advocate for better AI squad building ). What do you think the common denominator with all these easy games could be? I still think its morale-related personally. Shouts or no shouts

[Erimus1876]

Erimus1876- can you tell me what shouts you use in the saves? All of them or specific?

Just the common sense stuff. Sit Back, pass to feet, keep possession, stay on feet etc when leading with 10-15 to go. Or get it forward, push up, hassle, get stuck in, overlap, early cross, when needing a goal. Stand off and stay on feet when playing a much better opposition. Nothing set in stone. The key is I watch my games in 3D so I get a feel for the flow of the game and use the ones that seem sensible given the current situation (maybe thats the problem lol).

[milnerpoint]

Fair enough.

Ok, so what would you put it down to?, because at this point I'm out of ideas. Its not a fantasy in peoples imaginations that the game is easy. There's loads on here and other threads all saying the same thing (yes the minority, but that doesn't make it a non-problem). I know you are finding this years game just as challenging as last years, but I'm interested in hearing from someone who is very experienced with the game and doesn't come across as biased against its ease (I know you're an advocate for better AI squad building ). What do you think the common denominator with all these easy games could be? I still think its morale-related personally. Shouts or no shouts

From what i am reading i think the issue is, with the right conditions it can be very hard to lose a winning streak, it is prob linked to moral not dropping quick enough, but i think it has to be finely balanced, if they lower your teams moral too quickly then you will never get a winning streak going, but as it is, it does appear that you can go on massive unbeaten runs, it needs tweaked a bit.
Using your Barnet game as an example, i would imagine what has happened is, you take over a team with a good enough rep you increase the moral of your team, you then have a good pre-season, by the time the 1st league game comes around, your team is flying and they dont lose this despite a few hiccups along the way. You dont need a team meeting because as things stand your moral wont drop in a hurry, you dont need huge tactical adjustments for each game as your team is going out confident and by reading your posts you are changing things as you go along when needed. Your predicted to finish 24th, but i dont pay attention to that ever, Aberdeen are predicted to finish 4th in the 1st season, any realistic dons fan will tell you that is never going to be possible for us at the moment.

Long term im very interested to see how this years version goes, like i say early signs are that the squad building is better, but only 10-15 seasons will really show that. Hopefully my usage of FMRTE will be less this time around, although i did enjoy watching Scottish teams like Partick or Dundee spending £15m in a season

[Erimus1876]

From what i am reading i think the issue is, with the right conditions it can be very hard to lose a winning streak, it is prob linked to moral not dropping quick enough, but i think it has to be finely balanced, if they lower your teams moral too quickly then you will never get a winning streak going, but as it is, it does appear that you can go on massive unbeaten runs, it needs tweaked a bit.
Using your Barnet game as an example, i would imagine what has happened is, you take over a team with a good enough rep you increase the moral of your team, you then have a good pre-season, by the time the 1st league game comes around, your team is flying and they dont lose this despite a few hiccups along the way. You dont need a team meeting because as things stand your moral wont drop in a hurry, you dont need huge tactical adjustments for each game as your team is going out confident and by reading your posts you are changing things as you go along when needed. Your predicted to finish 24th, but i dont pay attention to that ever, Aberdeen are predicted to finish 4th in the 1st season, any realistic dons fan will tell you that is never going to be possible for us at the moment.

Long term im very interested to see how this years version goes, like i say early signs are that the squad building is better, but only 10-15 seasons will really show that. Hopefully my usage of FMRTE will be less this time around, although i did enjoy watching Scottish teams like Partick or Dundee spending £15m in a season

Thanks. Well I'm going to test my idea of using FMRTE to rebalance morale when it gets too high or too low for too long and see how it goes. I haven't got far enough in a regular save yet to see AI team building at work but it sounds promising if the early signs hold up!

[Loversleaper]

I think there is a huge difference between a couple of games in the real world, like the 6-1 match or the 8-2 match discussed further up, and going unbeaten most part of the season in the FM world with some of the teams in the screenshots presented in this thread...

[milnerpoint]

I think there is a huge difference between a couple of games in the real world, like the 6-1 match or the 8-2 match discussed further up, and going unbeaten most part of the season in the FM world with some of the teams in the screenshots presented in this thread...

no one is saying anything like that, the guy posted that he saw a thread when a user won 5-0 against City and said it looked unrealistic, i just pointed out that big shock results have happened this year and a single result should not be the defining point of the problem.

[Erimus1876]

ive never used FMRTE at all...is it easy enough to use without too much messing about?
also,is it me or have SI gone quiet on this thread/topic???

I've written up a step by step approach on post #51 of the other thread in the editors forum, here..

http://community.sigames.com/showthr...=1#post7270873

Initially its a bit of a mess on, but after you've made your preset its very quick and easy to implement it.

[lee_uk]

thanks erimus

[fettot]

game is way to easy. I have played cm since 1996 and this version is the most boring so far. i played it 6-7 hours before i got bored of it. I can play for weaks if games are fun.
Just to easy to win and feels way to easy get very good players. i played 38 games and won 35 of em with a good team.

Plz SI make either difficulty levels in the game or at least make game much harder so the old player base that have sponsored and made this game where it is today can have their challange addicted brains satisfied.
mike

[Matej]

game is way to easy. I have played cm since 1996 and this version is the most boring so far. i played it 6-7 hours before i got bored of it. I can play for weaks if games are fun.
Just to easy to win and feels way to easy get very good players. i played 38 games and won 35 of em with a good team.

Plz SI make either difficulty levels in the game or at least make game much harder so the old player base that have sponsored and made this game where it is today can have their challange addicted brains satisfied.
mike

This. Just watch out, people who didnt read first 5 pages will come and write to you that you must pick low league club.

[Sampa]

It's weird. When I was on the demo, in the prem (with Man Utd but bare with me), it seemed really easy.
When the full game out I started a game with Crystal Palace. It took me 3 seasons to gain promotion, first season just missed out on playoffs, second lost in playoff final, third I finished second.
Now, in my fourth season I came 6th in the Premiership... I did improve my squad, I got Ben Foster in goal, Birmingham's Zayatte and Nedum Onuoha in defence, but they aren't actually really great defenders and I managed to came 6th. All while beating the likes of Chelsea (although they had a really bad season), Man Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool and drawing to Man City.

Maybe the Premiership gets too easy somehow? But maybe I just had a good season and it will be more difficult as I try to avoid second season syndrome... I hope so.

[Matej]

It's weird. When I was on the demo, in the prem (with Man Utd but bare with me), it seemed really easy.
When the full game out I started a game with Crystal Palace. It took me 3 seasons to gain promotion, first season just missed out on playoffs, second lost in playoff final, third I finished second.
Now, in my fourth season I came 6th in the Premiership... I did improve my squad, I got Ben Foster in goal, Birmingham's Zayatte and Nedum Onuoha in defence, but they aren't actually really great defenders and I managed to came 6th. All while beating the likes of Chelsea (although they had a really bad season), Man Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool and drawing to Man City.

Maybe the Premiership gets too easy somehow? But maybe I just had a good season and it will be more difficult as I try to avoid second season syndrome... I hope so.

YOu know whats the biggest problem when i read your post? If you was 6th in the right now best league in the world and you just gain promotion, im affraid to think how is playin FM in serie a, France, bundesliga, Portugal, Sweden. It must be crazy easy.