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Thread: [Discussion Thread] - League reputations at game start

  1. #1
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    Default [Discussion Thread] - League reputations at game start

    The add/remove leagues function in FM '12 has made me a bit curious about league reputations, mainly because of a save concept I have (start in the lowest rated leagues, then add higher-rated ones in when/if I ever dominate the lower-rated leagues and conceivably could get a job in a bigger league).

    So I've fired up a new game, and looked at all the leagues that are playable out of the box (plus a couple that I know FMCUers have used edit files to get - those leagues are listed inside parentheses).

    The new game I fired up in order to check league reputations has MLS as the only playable league, and there are only 11,000 players in a large database. But I figure since this list is from the very start of the game, it's what SI has coded them as and should hold true across all game setups.

    The list:

    (Algeria - League One - 2 stars)

    Argentina
    Premier Division - 3 stars
    Second Division - 2-1/2 stars

    Australia
    A-League - 2 stars

    Austria
    Premier Division - 2-1/2 stars
    First Division - 2 stars

    Belarus
    Highest League - 2-1/2 stars
    First League - 1-1/2 stars

    Belgium
    Pro League - 3 stars
    Second League - 1-/2 stars
    Third Division A/B - 1 star

    Brazil
    First Division - 3-1/2 stars
    Second Division - 3 stars
    Third Division - 2-1/2 stars

    Bulgaria
    "A" Group - 2-1/2 stars
    "B" Group - 1-1/2 stars

    Chile
    First Division - 2-1/2 stars
    First Division B - 1-1/2 stars

    China
    Super League - 2 stars
    First Division - 1-1/2 stars

    Colombia
    First Division - 2-1/2 stars
    Second Division - 1-1/2 stars

    Croatia
    First Divison - 2-1/2 stars
    Second Division - 2 stars

    Czech Republic
    First Division - 2-1/2 stars
    Second Division - 2 stars

    Denmark
    Superliga - 2-1/2 stars
    First Division - 2 stars
    Second Division - 1 star

    (Egypt - Premier League - 2 stars)

    England
    Premier Division - 4-1/2 stars
    Championship - 3 stars
    League 1 - 2 stars
    League 2 - 1-2/ stars
    Blue Square Premier - 1 star
    Blue Square North/South - 1/2 star
    (Isthmian/Southern/Northern Premier - 1/2 star)
    (Isthmian/Souther/Northern First Division - 1/2 star)

    Finland
    Premier League - 2 stars
    First Divison - 1-1/2 stars

    France
    Ligue 1 - 3-1/2 stars
    Ligue 2 - 2-1/2 stars
    National - 1-1/2 stars
    CFA - 1 star

    Germany
    First Division - 4 stars
    Second Division - 3 stars
    Third Division - 2 stars

    Greece
    Superleague -3 stars
    National B - 2 stars

    Holland
    Eredivisie - 3 stars
    Jupiler League - 2 stars
    (Topklasse - 1/2 star)

    Hong Kong
    First Division - 1 star

    Hungary
    Division I - 2 stars
    Division II - 1-1/2 stars

    Iceland
    Premier Division - 1-1/2 stars
    First Division - 1/2 stars

    India
    National Football League - 1/2 star

    Indonesia
    Super League - 1-1/2 stars
    Premier Division - 1 star
    First Division - 1/2 star

    (Iran - Premier League - 2 stars)

    Israel
    Premier League - 2-1/2 stars
    National League - 2 stars

    Italy
    Serie A - 4 stars
    Serie B - 3-1/2 stars
    Serie C1 - 2 stars
    Serie C2 - 1-1/2 stars
    (Serie D - 1/2 star)

    (Japan - League 1 - 2-1/2 stars; League 2 - 2 stars; JFL - 1

    star)

    Malaysia
    Super League - 1 star
    Premier League - 1/2 star

    Mexico
    First Division - 3 stars
    Promotion League - 2 stars

    (New Zealand - ASB Premiership - 1/2 star)

    Northern Ireland
    Premier Division - 1-1/2 stars
    First Division - 1/2 star
    Second Division - 1/2 star

    Norway
    Premier Division - 2-1/2 stars
    First Division - 2 stars
    Second Division - 1 stars

    Peru
    First Division - 2 stars

    Poland
    Ekstraklasa - 2-1/2 stars
    First Division - 1-1/2 stars

    Portugal
    Premier League - 3-1/2 stars
    Second League - 2 stars
    Second Division - 1 star

    (Qatar - Stars League - 2 stars)

    Republic of Ireland
    Premier Division - 2 stars
    First Division - 1 star

    Romania
    First League - 2-1/2 stars
    Second Division - 1-1/2 stars

    Russia
    Premier Division - 3-1/2 stars
    First Division - 2 stars

    Scotland
    Premier League - 2-1/2 stars
    First Division - 2 stars
    Second Division - 1 star
    Third Division - 1/2 star

    Serbia
    SuperLeague - 2-1/2 stars
    First League - 2 star

    Singapore
    S-League- 1 star

    Slovakia
    First Division - 2-1/2 stars
    Second Division - 1-1/2 stars

    Slovenia
    First League - 2 stars
    Second League - 1-1/2 stars

    South Africa
    Premier League - 2-1/2 stars
    First Division - 1 star

    South Korea
    K-League - 2-1/2 stars
    N-League - 1-1/2 stars

    Spain
    La Liga - 4-1/2 stars
    Liga adelante - 2-1/2 stars
    Second Division B - 2 stars
    (Third Division - 1/2 star)

    Sweden
    Premier Division - 2-1/2 stars
    First Division Elite - 2 stars
    First Division - 1 star
    Second Division - 1 star

    Switzerland
    Super League - 2-1/2 stars
    Challenge League - 2 stars

    (Tunisia - Ligue Professionnelle 1 - 2 stars)

    Turkey
    Premier Division - 3 stars
    First Division - 2-1/2 stars
    Second Division - 1-1/2 stars

    Ukraine
    Premier League - 3 stars
    First League - 2 stars

    (United Arab Emirates - Professional League - 2 stars)

    United Stars
    Major League Soccer - 2-1/2 stars
    (Second Division - 1-1/2 stars)
    (Third Division - 1 stars)

    Uruguay
    First Division - 2-1/2 stars
    Second Division - 1-1/2 stars

    Wales
    Premier League - 1 star
    (First Division/Cymru Alliance - 1/2 star)
    In general, you can see there's a logical order of descent: Leagues are rated either a half star or a full star lower than the league above them, and a half star or a full star higher than the league below them.

    What is interesting to me is that pattern doesn't hold in Belgium, England, Portugal, Russia and Spain: There is a 1-1/2 star difference between the first and second divisions in Belgium, England, Portugal and Russia, and full 2 star difference between La Liga and Liga adelante in Spain.

    The Belgium one is probably the bigger surprise to me, as I wouldn't think there would be that much of a difference the Pro League and Second Division (I can't remember if the Second Division is a semi-pro league. Someone who has played there can clarify that). I can see a 1-1/2 star difference between the Premiership and the Championship, just because the Premiership is a massive league worldwide. Portugal and Russia are a mild surprise, only because they don't fit the pattern.

    But the 2-star gap between Spain's top 2 leagues is very interesting. Theoretically, this suggests the step up should be a major problem for teams promoted from Liga adelante (especially if your assistant reports that your players tend to be "in awe of" teams with higher reputations). But it also suggests they have a shot at players your assistant manager would leave off his search list as being "unrealistic" transfer targets.

    The England setup is also interesting, because everything from the Blue Square North/South has a 1/2-star reputation, which could help explain when a poster is playing with a club that rises rapidly through the non-league structure: The next league up is really no bigger than the league it promoted from. It might also suggest that SI needs to tweak the reputation models, as 10 slots (each half-star increment) isn't enough to account for leagues being further down than Level 5.

  2. #2
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    Also, there's a 1-1/2 star gap between Italy's Serie B and Serie C1, but that makes sense to me since Serie B is a nationwide league, whilst C1 is a regionalized league.

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    SI's 10 slots is designed for the leagues out of the box... ie Conference North/South.

    Good job putting it altogether Jason. Shame I haven't got FM2012 to give these a whirl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobby_McDonald View Post
    SI's 10 slots is designed for the leagues out of the box... ie Conference North/South.
    That's true, but it also allows for less variance in league reputation than, say, player attributes. The attributes give you 20 "slots" to pick from for each category.

    Granted, those all funnel in to give you a scout report based on the same 5-star rating system (10 slots, 1 for each half star). But I suspect there's a lot less info being processed to determine that a player is 4 stars, than to determine that a league is 4 stars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason the Yank View Post
    The Belgium one is probably the bigger surprise to me, as I wouldn't think there would be that much of a difference the Pro League and Second Division (I can't remember if the Second Division is a semi-pro league. Someone who has played there can clarify that).
    I don't know the (real world) numbers off the top of my head, but yeah, the Belgian Second Division is largely a semi-pro league, with perhaps a few pro clubs who relegated from the top flight in the last decade or so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason the Yank View Post
    Portugal and Russia are a mild surprise, only because they don't fit the pattern.
    When I heard about the add/remove league feature, I looked the league reputations up in FM11 (as I had a slightly similar idea to yours), thinking that the league reputations would stay pretty much the same between '11 and '12 (there's been a lot of changes, though). IIRC, there were a lot more one-and-a-half star difference leagues in '11. I remember Ukraine and Croatia, in particular. What I noticed was consistent between these patten-breakers was that they typically featured one or a few teams that completely dominate the domestic top division: Dynamo Zagreb in Croatia, Shakhtar Donetsk and Dinamo Kyiv in Ukraine etc. This also holds true for Portugal, as there's a huge gap between "the big three" and the rest of the teams, bringing on a reputation-increase that is mostly team-dependent.

    This is definitely the case for La Liga, too. Take away Real and Barca and there's no way it's a five-and-a-half-star league.

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    That's a good point, caravan, and one that hadn't occured to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by CoachFlu View Post
    I don't know the (real world) numbers off the top of my head, but yeah, the Belgian Second Division is largely a semi-pro league, with perhaps a few pro clubs who relegated from the top flight in the last decade or so.
    Cheers, Flu.

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    There is certainly a difference from last year. This year I've seen people receiving job offers from clubs like Goias when beginning the game with Sunday League reputation, which is in direct contrast to the previous year where only South Africa/Sweden were particularly interested. It'll also be very interesting to see what it's like to get a new job after being moderately successful. I recall last year, having won won a slew of cups with Kaizer Chiefs, not even being able to find a job in continental Europe, yet out of nowhere Palmeiras offered me a gig.

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