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Thread: The return of the Wingback.......... Unbeaten season (well, half season)

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    Default The return of the Wingback.......... Unbeaten season (well, half season)

    Every year I try and make a good 'wingback tactic' and fail miserably. In theory it just makes sense to me, giving great width and options in attack, and good defensive cover when you dont have the ball.

    In previous versions i've always ended up going back to full backs as its just worked better and there is a dearth of natural wing backs in the game, however i have just gone unbeaten in the demo using wing backs, and they have been influencial in my system.

    Ok, its Man City so nothing to get too excited about, but operating with 3 centre backs its been really solid only conceding 10 goals over 19 games, with real variety in attack and pretty good to watch. Details below.

    15 wins. 4 draws. In League.

    http://imageshack.us/f/828/englishpremierdivisiono.png/
    http://imageshack.us/f/593/manchestercityfixturesf.png/
    http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/1...ytacticsov.png


    Only issue is the 2 strikers getting a little isolated. For home games I think I will develop the tactic by moving the MCR into the AMC position to add a little more creativity.

    Zabaleta/Clichy are not natural wingbacks so with retraining or buying specialised players for this role it should be even better.

    Above results are using the above tactic continually, never using shouts or altering anything mid game.

    Thought i would share for those considering a new apporach.

    Cheers
    Last edited by Mr U Rosler; 12-10-2011 at 14:56.

  2. #2
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    I thought Full back's were attacking defenders :S

    I thought Wing Backs were very defensive defenders... Opps.......

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    Nicely done. Using wing backs is something I've never really considered (but you're right - there are a wealth of good wing backs in the game). I always have a back four and play my right/left backs as attack minded defenders (and try to train preferred moves for them such as 'get forward whenever possible' etc).

    The trouble I've found with wing backs in the past is when playing a team with fast wingers, I always seem to get caught out in defence.

    Well done in making it work for you though!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy_Jambo View Post
    I thought Full back's were attacking defenders :S

    I thought Wing Backs were very defensive defenders... Opps.......
    I dont really understand what you mean.

    Full backs or wing backs can be set to defend/support or attack.

    Wing backs are positioned higher up the pitch than Full backs and I believe are traditionally used in a more attacking manner.

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    I always use Wing Backs. :3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr U Rosler View Post
    Every year I try and make a good 'wingback tactic' and fail miserably. In theory it just makes sense to me, giving great width and options in attack, and good defensive cover when you dont have the ball.

    In previous versions i've always ended up going back to full backs as its just worked better and there is a dearth of natural wing backs in the game, however i have just gone unbeaten in the demo using wing backs, and they have been influencial in my system.

    Ok, its Man City so nothing to get too excited about, but operating with 3 centre backs its been really solid only conceding 10 goals over 19 games, with real variety in attack and pretty good to watch. Details below.

    15 wins. 4 draws. In League.

    http://imageshack.us/f/828/englishpremierdivisiono.png/
    http://imageshack.us/f/593/manchestercityfixturesf.png/
    http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/1...ytacticsov.png


    Only issue is the 2 strikers getting a little isolated. For home games I think I will develop the tactic by moving the MCR into the AMC position to add a little more creativity.

    Zabaleta/Clichy are not natural wingbacks so with retraining or buying specialised players for this role it should be even better.

    Above results are using the above tactic continually, never using shouts or altering anything mid game.

    Thought i would share for those considering a new apporach.

    Cheers
    Do all 3 central defenders stay in line or have you managed to get one of them pushing up into the DMC position? Might give this a try myself.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by schiv85 View Post
    Do all 3 central defenders stay in line or have you managed to get one of them pushing up into the DMC position? Might give this a try myself.....
    The central DC is set to 'Ball playing defender', he doesnt really get involved in attacks but the other DC's are set to short passing so they often pass to him so he can distribute the ball forward. Obviously you want your best passer here. They do stay in a line.

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    I wanted to try the same thing after realizing how difficult it was to find a good full back. Of course, it was even harder to find a good wing back, so I never did get it working.

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    That tempts me to play around with a wingback formation for Spurs: with Bale and Walker they've got the personnel for it.

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    With city that's not hard. Try a small club instead

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    GK

    SW
    Libero
    Attack

    CD CD
    Defend Defend

    WB WB
    auto auto

    CM DLP CM
    auto defend auto


    S S
    trequartista poacher
    attack attack

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    Quote Originally Posted by João Miguel Pereira View Post
    With city that's not hard. Try a small club instead
    It's still a good tactic and a good thing to know. Don't just assume that because something was accomplished with the players at one particular club that it isn't a valid achievement. I don't even know what you mean anyway...

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    always play that way 2-3 CB and 2 wingbacks, yes in previous years, problem was their as attackers getting isolated .. mostly due that wingbacks don't go forward fast enough when having the ball and going back fast to defend when team lose the ball, i tried every slide value possible in tactic, but same same ..
    hope this fixed in FM12.

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    Quote Originally Posted by howdo View Post
    S S
    trequartista poacher
    attack attack
    Both strikers on Attack duty? I don't think I'd go with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Rudd View Post
    Both strikers on Attack duty? I don't think I'd go with that.
    I agree. You might want to consider changing the player with the Trequarista/Attack instruction to something like Complete Forward/Support instead. That way the link-up play is likely to be considerably better as they'll generally drop deeper to recieve the ball and play in your midfielders more.

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    I have never played a game with a flat back 4. Always preferred a back 3 and wingbacks. The match engine seems to shift the goalposts where wingback performances are concerned, version to version. Makes me think the game (and SI) don't really know what to do with wingbacks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr U Rosler View Post
    Only issue is the 2 strikers getting a little isolated.
    Lower their mentality to 9 and 11 and "Run from Deep" to rarely to one and often to another.

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    This is my preferred setup as well (5-3-2 with wingbacks), but I rarely have the personnel for it.

    Although my concept is slightly different in that I prefer a sweeper, or a flat-3 in central defense with the middle one of them set in a "cover" role.

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    Quote Originally Posted by João Miguel Pereira View Post
    With city that's not hard. Try a small club instead
    I said that in my original post.

    Even so, cant do much better than 15 wins and 4 draws. 3 of the draws being Man U, Chelsea & Tottenham away.

    I'm now using it in the Blue Square premier league and going strong, again the best defence in the league.

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    I played the same formation in FM11, the only differences being the middle centre-half was a stopper and the 3 central midfielders were all CM - Support.

    I played it as a counter-attacking formation with a poacher and a trequartista up front, both with high pace, dribbling and flair, the rest of the team were pretty average but with high teamwork.

    Pretty much won everything with it.

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    This is music to my ears. I always try and fail implementing 3 centre backs. Im suprised only Napoli off the top of my head implement this successfully in real life, although there are a lack of teams that play with real width in Serie A so I can see why it would work for them. Barcelona have tinkered with the idea as well for home games against the weaker La Liga teams. It all makes sense for me and I cant wait to play this way in FM12.

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    Napoli's wild 3-4-2-1 I something I plan to try to emulate in FM at some point, it's a very interesting, original setup. I fear getting the 2 AMC's right would be even harder than the wing-backs tho - they have to drift a little wide occasionally and cover the runs of the opposition full-backs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToffeeViola View Post
    I agree. You might want to consider changing the player with the Trequarista/Attack instruction to something like Complete Forward/Support instead. That way the link-up play is likely to be considerably better as they'll generally drop deeper to recieve the ball and play in your midfielders more.

    i suggest giving it a go....
    the strikers run riot.....

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    Looks nice but I would use Nasri and Silva (I dont remember if he "can" play as MC) when playing home against an easy rival. Keeping their positions but changing the roles and just leaving De Jong to fight in the middle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bielsista View Post
    Looks nice but I would use Nasri and Silva (I dont remember if he "can" play as MC) when playing home against an easy rival. Keeping their positions but changing the roles and just leaving De Jong to fight in the middle.
    Both Nasri & Silva were injured for pretty much the whole time. Was thinking along those lines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noikeee View Post
    Napoli's wild 3-4-2-1 I something I plan to try to emulate in FM at some point, it's a very interesting, original setup. I fear getting the 2 AMC's right would be even harder than the wing-backs tho - they have to drift a little wide occasionally and cover the runs of the opposition full-backs.
    I've done that on FM11. Set the two AMC's to man mark opposition full-backs, with tight marking. That way they are positioned somewhat towards the flanks when you retrieve possesion. You could also tell them to 'hug touchline' from time to time.

    Only thing is, I can't see why you'd want them so far out in that particular formation. If by 3-4-2-1 you mean 3 DC's and 2 MC's, then regardless of whether or not the remaining 2 down back are wingbacks or ML/R, you're going to need some cover centrally with only two MC's???

    If you pull both AMC's to cover opposition fullbacks, and you only have 1 central striker, you're essentially leaving an open highway down the middle of the pitch. Especially if opposition is fielding a DMC and/or AMC...

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    Quote Originally Posted by rune_star View Post
    I've done that on FM11. Set the two AMC's to man mark opposition full-backs, with tight marking. That way they are positioned somewhat towards the flanks when you retrieve possesion. You could also tell them to 'hug touchline' from time to time.

    Only thing is, I can't see why you'd want them so far out in that particular formation. If by 3-4-2-1 you mean 3 DC's and 2 MC's, then regardless of whether or not the remaining 2 down back are wingbacks or ML/R, you're going to need some cover centrally with only two MC's???

    If you pull both AMC's to cover opposition fullbacks, and you only have 1 central striker, you're essentially leaving an open highway down the middle of the pitch. Especially if opposition is fielding a DMC and/or AMC...
    Well that's why 3 centre-backs formations have become out of fashion over the past decade, isn't it? You're prone to leaving an extra man unmarked somewhere else by fielding 1 extra centre-back. Particularly against the most common 4-5-1/4-3-3 variation (1 DMC, 2 MCs, 2 AML/AMRs, 1 ST). The 2 full-backs and the DMC are left for 2 players to mark - in the 3-4-2-1 case, the 2 AMCs. One of those three players is necessarily going to be left free.

    Tight-marking on full backs may be what's needed to get it right. Get them initially in a central position so that the DMC has some central presence to deal with anyway, but have them take a look at the runs of the full-backs too. Getting that balance right is critical to the defensive success of the tactic. I'd employ very high closing down too, over most of the 6 midfielders if not all.

    And by Napoli's 3-4-2-1 I mean 3 CB's, 1 WBL, 2 DMCs, 1 WBR, 2 AMCs, 1 ST.

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    I've always had a hankering for a 3 DC and 2 WB system but could never get the defensive side tight enough. Could the OP give more details on his settings for the back 5 and perhaps how he set up his defensive line ?

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    very interesting set up... seems suited to the lower leagues for sure where the physical side of things are more prevailent...

    not important at all to the context of this thread but it DOES hurt my eyes seeing the likes of silva and nasri being relegated to the bench or worse.. to a centre midfield position.. *shivers*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dundee Dave View Post
    I've always had a hankering for a 3 DC and 2 WB system but could never get the defensive side tight enough. Could the OP give more details on his settings for the back 5 and perhaps how he set up his defensive line ?
    Blue Square Premier League performance.

    http://imageshack.us/f/254/bluesquarebetpremierove.png/

    Pretty good. Conceding too many from corners at this level, I am working on that. First go at this level, its october before the team are 100% happy with this system. I am having to substitute both my wing backs after 65 mins as there stamina is too low. Clearly this is a key attribute for this role. I reckon now I know what is required I will be topping the table on my next run through + when the full game is released I might be able to find some natural wing backs with a large database loaded.

    Note I have changed the right sided striker to CF with support role following advice on this thread.

    Team Instructions below

    http://imageshack.us/f/11/stockportcountytacticst.png/

    Wing back instructions

    http://imageshack.us/f/406/stockportcountytacticsp.png/

    Note wide play is hug touchline.


    I actually believe that due to the lack of suitable wing backs in the lower leagues this system will be easier to implement the higher up the leagues you go. So the fact i'm pretty close on my 1st go in the BSPL is encouraging.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr U Rosler View Post

    Note I have changed the right sided striker to CF with support role following advice on this thread.

    Team Instructions below

    http://imageshack.us/f/11/stockportcountytacticst.png/

    Wing back instructions

    http://imageshack.us/f/406/stockportcountytacticsp.png/

    Note wide play is hug touchline.
    Thanks for that. I've had a go using a similar system and I am happy with the offensive side of the tactic. I've started the demo with Dundee in the Scottish 1st Div. Zero transfer budget and only 35% of transfer revenue available as they are just out of administration. Need to rely on frees and loans. However the squad is decent (equal 2nd favourites for promotion). I have a couple of decent wingbacks and ball playing CDs so the tactic is appealing. Like you however, the WB's need replacing around the 65% mark due to lowish stamina. Up front I am using a TM (attack) and DLF (support) which suits my players better and this is proving successful.
    My issue is still defensively. Opposing full backs and wingers "gang" up on my WB leaving him exposed and my CD's vulnerable to cross balls. I negated this by man-marking the opposing fullbacks with my outside central midfielders but this then left a gaping hole through the middle.
    Could you post your instructions for your central defenders and defensive mid or even go the whole hog and post your tactic up so I can see how you are managing to keep it tight defensively. Thanks in advance.

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    Another thought for the OP. Do you think giving the WB's a support mentality rather than attacking one so they are "running from deep" is mixed rather than always would take away too much of the attacking potency of the system ? It would certainly help with the stamina issue. Perhaps it could be coupled with moving the defensive line higher so they are starting with a position further up the field. Any thoughts would be appreciated Mr Rosler.

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