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Thread: *OFFICIAL* Blog Feedback - Licensing

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    Default *OFFICIAL* Blog Feedback - Licensing

    This is a thread for feedback on today's blog, which is now LIVE here - http://community.sigames.com/showthr...logs-licensing

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    I've always wondered why there is an official SPL license but never a Scottish football league one, I know the SFL like all Scottish associations can be a right pain but surely a 2ltr bottle of Irn-Bru & a weeks supply of take-away dinner's should have been enough to secure an official license.

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    I expect Brazilian license next year.. okey? :,)

    Would be nice to get real fixtures and logos for brasileiro.
    Last edited by viiralx; 30-09-2011 at 13:37.

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    hahahahahaha, at least two bottles of Irn-Bru come one!!
    Good to see this, shame EA still have rights for the German league.

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    Im still waiting for EA to not have exclusive rights to the premier league clubs.

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    boring! tell us about the match engine please!

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevie_G_32201 View Post
    Im still waiting for EA to not have exclusive rights to the premier league clubs.
    What he said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevie_G_32201 View Post
    Im still waiting for EA to not have exclusive rights to the premier league clubs.
    Think they have till about 2055 dont they

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    Almost as interesting as Miles' sandwich story.

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    Shame about the lack of English PL and European Competitions.

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    Great to hear about the licenses.

    Quote Originally Posted by pauly1616 View Post
    boring! tell us about the match engine please!
    You'll have to wait to hear about the match engine. what's your rush? They release the blogs when they're ready, not when you're ready

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevie_G_32201 View Post
    Im still waiting for EA to not have exclusive rights to the premier league clubs.
    Interesting what you pick up on the internet, while looking for details on Satan's licensing deals I noticed that his product has its retail release the day before FM, I wonder how much of a tonking they'll get this year.

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    The licensing is something that, imo, it's not important in FM.

    The way the game is made, allow the users to compile all the logos, facepics, kits, competitions game. In fact, why bother with the 4200 facepics that come with the game, when in the community we can donwload 90.000 face pics?

    Even the "problem" with the German (and netherland i think also) national team, its not a real problem (google it, and its solve).

    With this in mind... one think i like to know... do SI pay for this licenses? Because, if they do, what a waste of money!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyzer Soze View Post
    The licensing is something that, imo, it's not important in FM.

    The way the game is made, allow the users to compile all the logos, facepics, kits, competitions game. In fact, why bother with the 4200 facepics that come with the game, when in the community we can donwload 90.000 face pics?

    Even the "problem" with the German (and netherland i think also) national team, its not a real problem (google it, and its solve).

    With this in mind... one think i like to know... do SI pay for this licenses? Because, if they do, what a waste of money!
    Some of us don't use any graphics for FM for various reasons. One of them being is that graphics can cause crash dumps which was the case with FM 2011. That's why we appreciate licensing.
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    Guessing this means the German team will still be greyed out, ruins the international game really unless you download the fix.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamieLiverpoolfan View Post
    Guessing this means the German team will still be greyed out, ruins the international game really unless you download the fix.
    The fix takes about 3 seconds to do

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyzer Soze View Post
    The licensing is something that, imo, it's not important in FM.

    The way the game is made, allow the users to compile all the logos, facepics, kits, competitions game. In fact, why bother with the 4200 facepics that come with the game, when in the community we can donwload 90.000 face pics?

    Even the "problem" with the German (and netherland i think also) national team, its not a real problem (google it, and its solve).

    With this in mind... one think i like to know... do SI pay for this licenses? Because, if they do, what a waste of money!

    IF user created packs are endorsed by SI then it's a waste of money, but what the licences provide is quite nice even though it can be re created by a user. people like EA hog licenses though and i dont see them giving up on it any time soon, with a fifa advert for football live on sky and access to the PPI and the little logo always there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyzer Soze View Post
    The licensing is something that, imo, it's not important in FM.

    The way the game is made, allow the users to compile all the logos, facepics, kits, competitions game. In fact, why bother with the 4200 facepics that come with the game, when in the community we can donwload 90.000 face pics?

    Even the "problem" with the German (and netherland i think also) national team, its not a real problem (google it, and its solve).

    With this in mind... one think i like to know... do SI pay for this licenses? Because, if they do, what a waste of money!
    People like licensed games, it's why FIFA always outsold PES, many folk prefer to be Manchester United than Northwest Reds.

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    Will we be able to at least mod japanese leagues in ? Last year there are lots of crippled tabs which ruined the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by duduric View Post
    Will we be able to at least mod japanese leagues in ? Last year there are lots of crippled tabs which ruined the game.
    I would like know about it too. Can we finally make the japanese leagues in the editor with the "club informations" tabs appearing in the game?

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    Would this usually be the blog where any new leagues are announced? So i take it there aren't any additional leagues compared to the last version?

    Thanks for any response

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    Quote Originally Posted by duduric View Post
    Will we be able to at least mod japanese leagues in ? Last year there are lots of crippled tabs which ruined the game.
    It's unlikely. Previous FMs have also not bad the information tab for Japanese clubs and if things stay status quo we should expect the same this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabio MVP View Post
    Some of us don't use any graphics for FM for various reasons. One of them being is that graphics can cause crash dumps which was the case with FM 2011. That's why we appreciate licensing.
    Ok, fair enough! My experience it's completly different. Always used custom graphics and never had a crash dump because of that.

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    "Italy – We have licenses in Italy with the following clubs, in alphabetical order… AC.Milan, Atalanta, Bologna, Cagliari, Catania, Cesena, Chievo Verona, Fiorentina, Genoa, Inter, Juventus, Lazio, Lecce, Palermo, Parma, Roma, Sampdoria, Udinese."

    A total of 18 Italian clubs with just Sampdoria not in Serie A. It just seems strange that Sega couldnt get the 3 missing Serie A teams Napoli, Novara and Siena.

    Doesnt realy matter much as I guess user compiled packs are already in development for FM12. Only problem I hope never arises is players real names in the unlicenced league are not allowed to be used and we have a Jens Mustermann instead of a Oliver Khan.

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    Yes thank's a lot to all the community for new interface and photos provided all along the year. Without community, FM will be graphically ugly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barside View Post
    People like licensed games, it's why FIFA always outsold PES, many folk prefer to be Manchester United than Northwest Reds.
    Ok, but the point i was trying to make was, in FM we can create those logos, kits, etc etc etc. If the game was a little "pandora box", like Fifa or Pes, where we couldn't add our graphics, then the licensing issue would have, imo, a much greater importance.

    But in the case of FM, this point can be easily turn around by the fantastic work of the community. And of course, we also have to thank to SI for creating a game that allow so much custom graphics.

    Like everybody else, i like to play with the oficial competitions names, the real logos, kits etc etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moon_goat View Post
    Would this usually be the blog where any new leagues are announced? So i take it there aren't any additional leagues compared to the last version?

    Thanks for any response
    I would also like to know the answer to this, any new playable nations this year? I Doubt there will be but it would be cool if there was.

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    Brilliant for the licensing <3 I am guessing that mean I wouldnt need to download logos from FM Base anymore or anything like that!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyzer Soze View Post
    Ok, but the point i was trying to make was, in FM we can create those logos, kits, etc etc etc. If the game was a little "pandora box", like Fifa or Pes, where we couldn't add our graphics, then the licensing issue would have, imo, a much greater importance.

    But in the case of FM, this point can be easily turn around by the fantastic work of the community. And of course, we also have to thank to SI for creating a game that allow so much custom graphics.
    Like everybody else, i like to play with the oficial competitions names, the real logos, kits etc etc.
    Thanking a company for making a shrewd business move! Fairly unusual but, whatever floats your boat I suppose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pigfacemonkeyman View Post
    Thanking a company for making a shrewd business move! Fairly unusual but, whatever floats your boat I suppose.
    if they made the game so that was impossible to add custom graphics, do you think they would lose costumers? IMO, they would not lose users.

    So, with that in mind, i dont have any problems to thank SI, for making the game in a way that users can make there own graphics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huney Munster View Post
    "Italy – We have licenses in Italy with the following clubs, in alphabetical order… AC.Milan, Atalanta, Bologna, Cagliari, Catania, Cesena, Chievo Verona, Fiorentina, Genoa, Inter, Juventus, Lazio, Lecce, Palermo, Parma, Roma, Sampdoria, Udinese."

    A total of 18 Italian clubs with just Sampdoria not in Serie A. It just seems strange that Sega couldnt get the 3 missing Serie A teams Napoli, Novara and Siena.

    Doesnt realy matter much as I guess user compiled packs are already in development for FM12. Only problem I hope never arises is players real names in the unlicenced league are not allowed to be used and we have a Jens Mustermann instead of a Oliver Khan.
    de laurentis probably wanted some cash from SI

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    Quote Originally Posted by rancer890 View Post
    It's unlikely. Previous FMs have also not bad the information tab for Japanese clubs and if things stay status quo we should expect the same this year.
    But nobody ever gives an explanation why Japan is the only country where there are hardcoded obstacles to including it in the game. In some places where FM doesn't have licenses they even put in the real database but covered it up (French national team and others). SIGames has to tell us why Japan is the only country where users aren't allowed to re-create the league themselves without bugs.

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    Disappointed for FM losing the Portuguese Licenses.

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    Don't have time to listen to the podcast, so I'll just ask a quick question:
    Why does the licensing seem to prevent SI from letting the German team be filled out with newgens as they come into the game? Greyed out players and all that are one thing, but why can't the team be filled out by "fake" players as the game progresses?

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    It's a combination of EA's exclusive license & Germany's strong IP laws, Google should provide more in-depth information on the matter as we cannot go into too much detail on the forum.

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    shame that they lost the portuguese licence. more of a shame that they can never get the EPL licences, as I feel this slightly ruins the game for me (i like the realism of actual pictures and logos etc) and last year i started the game the day i got it with an english championship team due to them having the licences for the team, but once the updates for pics and logos was found, i used those, but couldnt bring them into my saved game, so had to start again. and the same will probably happen this year too

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    Quote Originally Posted by coopie54 View Post
    shame that they lost the portuguese licence. more of a shame that they can never get the EPL licences, as I feel this slightly ruins the game for me (i like the realism of actual pictures and logos etc) and last year i started the game the day i got it with an english championship team due to them having the licences for the team, but once the updates for pics and logos was found, i used those, but couldnt bring them into my saved game, so had to start again. and the same will probably happen this year too
    What? Something must have went wrong, because any downloaded pic or logo packs should apply to all save games, not just new ones.

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    I must admit I do not understand why full licenses are so important to some people, yes they add a nice bit of frosting to the game but to treat the absence of logo's & pictures as game-breaking is beyond me.

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    Please SI, make the info tab for Japan visible...

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    No Novara.

    Napoli is a striking omission, especially considering how well they're doing this year. Best team they've had since, you know... Diego.

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    Default Please clarify about Australia - Miles Jacobson

    "Every year the licensing team at SEGA trawl the world for official football licenses for the Football Manager series, and this year is no different.

    We have a plethora of licenses for the game, and are very grateful to all of our licensors around the world for the information and help that they give to us to make Football Manager as good as it possibly can be.

    So today’s blog is a rundown of all of the licenses we have in this year’s game:

    Australia – We again have a license with the Hyundai A-League, this allows us to feature both league and club logos, as well as the proper fixture list for the current season."

    Miles Jacobson
    If this is the truth then Miles what you told me on Twitter was a lie, you advised me that due to the agreement with the FFA regarding the structure/format of the A-League that you can't change the structure from 2 competitions (Regular Season - League, Finals Series - Cup) however according to your new post the only thing the agreement gives you the right to use the logo and fixture.

    So once again if you only get access to the trademark materials why do you still use a 2 competition structure for the A-League rather than 1 competition with multiple stages (Regular Season -> Final Series) use the format used by the MLS not the made up stuff that has currently used.

    This is how Australia should operate...

    Stage 1: Regular Season (top 6 qualify for the finals series with 1st qualifying for the Asian Champions League (ACL))

    Stage 2: Finals Series (this only runs for 4 weeks with a specific structure in which the grand final winner gets the 2nd ACL spot, if this is the stage 1 winner then the runner up gets the spot)

    Week 1: Major Semi Final - Leg 1 (First v Second [A] 2nd are Hosts)
    Week 1: Knockout Semi Final (Third v Sixth [B] 3rd are Hosts, and Fourth v Fifth [C] 4th are Hosts)

    Week 2: Major Semi Final - Leg 2 (Second v First [A] 1st are Hosts)
    Week 2: Minor Semi Final (B v C [D] B are Hosts)

    Week 3: Preliminary Final (Loser A v D [E] Loser A are Hosts)

    Week 4: Grand Final (Winner A v E, Winner A are Hosts)

    You currently do both of these however instead of having separate competitions just make the a single competition...

    Please respond to clarify why you told me that you can't touch the completion however the agreement mention above doesn't mention that.

    Regards and waiting for a reply...

    ---
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    Last edited by b.paterson; 16-11-2011 at 00:26. Reason: Minor changes to post...

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    Quote Originally Posted by b.paterson View Post
    If this is the truth then Miles what you told me on Twitter was a lie, you advised me that due to the agreement with the FFA regarding the structure/format of the A-League that you can't change the structure from 2 competitions (Regular Season - League, Finals Series - Cup) however according to your new post the only thing the agreement gives you the right to use the logo and fixture.

    So once again if you only get access to the trademark materials why do you still use a 2 competition structure for the A-League rather than 1 competition with multiple stages (Regular Season -> Final Series) use the format used by the MLS not the made up stuff that has currently used.

    This is how Australia should operate...

    Stage 1: Regular Season (top 6 qualify for the finals series with 1st qualifying for the Asian Champions League (ACL))

    Stage 2: Finals Series (this only runs for 4 weeks with a specific structure in which the grand final winner gets the 2nd ACL spot, if this is the stage 1 winner then the runner up gets the spot)

    Week 1: Major Semi Final - Leg 1 (First v Second [A] 2nd are Hosts)
    Week 1: Knockout Semi Final (Third v Sixth [B] 3rd are Hosts, and Fourth v Fifth [C] 4th are Hosts)

    Week 2: Major Semi Final - Leg 2 (Second v First [A] 1st are Hosts)
    Week 2: Minor Semi Final (B v C [D] B are Hosts)

    Week 3: Preliminary Final (Loser A v D [E] Loser A are Hosts)

    Week 4: Grand Final (Winner A v E, Winner A are Hosts)

    You currently do both of these however instead of having separate competitions just make the a single competition...

    Please respond to clarify why you told me that you can't touch the completion however the agreement mention above doesn't mention that.

    Regards and waiting for a reply...
    cant see where he has lied... unless i'm missing somethig here
    Last edited by themadsheep2001; 01-10-2011 at 01:04.

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    Quote Originally Posted by themadsheep2001 View Post
    cant see where he has lied... unless i'm missing somethig here
    Sorry if this is a little unclear, I posted on my twitter account towards Si Games & Miles to hopefully understand why a licensed league has been coded incorrectly in every Football Manager game since they were official (Australia has been official since FM07). The reply I got from Miles was due to the commercial licensing agreement they can't change the structure of the A-League which currently is structured as 2 separate competitions with Hyundai A-League (Regular Season) and Hyundai Final Series.

    The question I have raised since FM07 is why don't SI change the coding so instead of 2 separate competitions structure it like it is in the MLS with Multiple Stages (this was found out by using MagicMasterMind124's advanced editor add-on to the official editor supplied by SI - see the Editor Forum for details) the actual structure of each competitions is correct however the behind the scenes coding split the Hyundai A-League.

    So the above example is for a Hyundai A-League in which the Regular Season (League Format) is used as a qualifying competition for the Finals Series (Knockout for Trophy). Similar to how their a pool games and then a knockout series in the World Cup.

    So on face value SI have Australia working correctly however the behind the scenes has been incorrect for the last 5 years, surely if passionate fans of the series what things changed in the game to make them better then SI should listen as this will make the league closer the 100% realistic rather than 50/75% realistic.

    Regards

    ---
    To vote and provide feedback on my general discussion topic to introduce Staff Roles and Duties into FM Series please click on my provided link to do so http://bit.ly/u8WoDS
    Last edited by b.paterson; 16-11-2011 at 00:26. Reason: Minor changes to post...

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    Have any other licenses been lost - I note the Portugese license above (any more??)

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    [sarcasm]What another great blog...[/sarcasm]

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    Quote Originally Posted by dustShadowX View Post
    But nobody ever gives an explanation why Japan is the only country where there are hardcoded obstacles to including it in the game. In some places where FM doesn't have licenses they even put in the real database but covered it up (French national team and others). SIGames has to tell us why Japan is the only country where users aren't allowed to re-create the league themselves without bugs.
    Konami have rights to J-League. PES is huge selling game in Japan because of this. Presumably Konami wont let anyone use the Japan as they hold the licence for 20 years.

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    Odd really, considering I thought there was a good working relationship between Konami and SI. I'm sure a few years ago Konami used FM's database (with SI's permission, obv) to improve the accuracy of its player ability stats?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barside View Post
    I've always wondered why there is an official SPL license but never a Scottish football league one, I know the SFL like all Scottish associations can be a right pain but surely a 2ltr bottle of Irn-Bru & a weeks supply of take-away dinner's should have been enough to secure an official license.
    No games have an SFL license. On a personal level it would be great to be able to get one but you can't always get what you want.

    Quote Originally Posted by stevie_G_32201 View Post
    Im still waiting for EA to not have exclusive rights to the premier league clubs.
    I expect you'll be waiting a long time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keyzer Soze View Post
    The licensing is something that, imo, it's not important in FM.

    The way the game is made, allow the users to compile all the logos, facepics, kits, competitions game. In fact, why bother with the 4200 facepics that come with the game, when in the community we can donwload 90.000 face pics?

    Even the "problem" with the German (and netherland i think also) national team, its not a real problem (google it, and its solve).

    With this in mind... one think i like to know... do SI pay for this licenses? Because, if they do, what a waste of money!
    What if we didn't have a license for, say, the French league and as a result we couldn't have it in the game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raybouldinho View Post
    Odd really, considering I thought there was a good working relationship between Konami and SI. I'm sure a few years ago Konami used FM's database (with SI's permission, obv) to improve the accuracy of its player ability stats?
    I don't think it's got anything to do with Konami. Is the J-League even in PES? I thought it was just in Winning Eleven but I've not been following it much these days.

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    Portugal license?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvaa View Post
    Portugal license?
    I deduce that those not mentioned are not licensed.
    Last edited by grade; 02-10-2011 at 20:28.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grade View Post
    I deduct that those not mentioned are not licensed.
    Actually, you deduce it. "Deduct" means to subtract.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ter View Post
    What if we didn't have a license for, say, the French league and as a result we couldn't have it in the game?
    I was only talking about the "cosmetic" part of the license (kits, logos, facepacks).

    Do you mean, that you must have a license for the leagues?

  53. #53
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    Licensing is a nice part of the game but in reality the community will have this sorted out in a couple of weeks. The community is so important to FM.
    Last edited by siambluebird; 03-10-2011 at 11:40.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by grade View Post
    I deduce that those not mentioned are not licensed.
    That would mean no North- & South-American teams, no Asian (India & China?) and a loss of quite some European leagues... with the Belgian league as the number one league being missed *cough cough*.

    I really hope that's not true! No Belgian league -> even less people here buying it

  55. #55
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    No license for correct competition names or player pictures does not mean that the league will no longer be playable.

    No need to panic, I'm sure that the crazy world of Belgian football can be enjoyed in FM12.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barside View Post
    No license for correct competition names or player pictures does not mean that the league will no longer be playable.

    No need to panic, I'm sure that the crazy world of Belgian football can be enjoyed in FM12.
    Yeah, this is something i like to understand.

    Is there 2 kinds of licenses? One type for the league (so that we can play with that league), and another type of license for the logos, names, pics of that league?

  57. #57
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    Unless there is an exclusive agreement with a company other than SI (like with Japan), every league and team can be represented. To be able to display logos, names, pic etc of a particular league, SI need to have a licensing agreement with them.

    That is my understanding of how things work

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Manager View Post
    I have never noticed it I must admit, but did the German and Japanese players in the for an example FM11 not play international games?
    They didn't.
    www.fmbosnia.com - The game starts here

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Manager View Post
    Oh, that's too bad. Is there any download out there which enables them to do so?
    Not allowed to talk about that on this forum, but Google has the answer you need.
    www.fmbosnia.com - The game starts here

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    I wouldn't mind seeing more real life media sources and journalists, it can't cost that much, if anything, particularly things like national broadcasters

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidbowie View Post
    Completely ignored the A-League issue. Why does that not surprise me. Looks like another year of moronic board decisions based on having a split competition instead of the actual competition.
    This just proves that SI don't care for the Australian market, however I would like to attempt and modify/create my own proper Hyundai A-League with MagicMastermind124 Editor Add-On however I don't know where to start, I have asked him if possible to create an Australian Project like he did back in FM10/FM09 (can't remember which) however he doesn't do projects anymore.

    If SI ever get their act together and fix this issue (5 yrs straight) with the A-League (Parent Competition) and National Youth League (Child Competition) then fans of the series could attempt creating/expanding the lower state leagues by copying the format/coding used in the A-League. I know with Victoria the VPL has the same format as the A-League (Regular Season/Finals Series with relegation for the bottom 2 teams from the league), however the lower divisions use the same format as European League football with promotion and relegation.

    I just wish SI would actually respond to Australian complaints, considering Miles has told me that Australia is as important as the American Leagues and more effort is applied to these markets rather than the European markets.

    Regards

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    To vote and provide feedback on my general discussion topic to introduce Staff Roles and Duties into FM Series please click on my provided link to do so http://bit.ly/u8WoDS
    Last edited by b.paterson; 16-11-2011 at 00:25. Reason: Minor changes to post...

  62. #62
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    As you have to activate the game via steam whether you download or by the box, these will come in a patch basically, which will be delivered by steam, is the way that I read that information.

  63. #63
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    The reason some of the pictures might not make it into the game is that the clubs/league do not send the images by the time the game goes gold.

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    Im just thinking outside of the box, but surely SI can create ALL leagues, teams, both domestically and international, and then just disable them and its upto the user to enable them at their "own risk" as it were?

    I dunno how it all works and basically just sticking my oar in..

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    No they can't. If they include the graphics and names of clubs and leagues that they don't have the license to on the disk then they are infringing on the license held by other companies.

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    Not having EPL license never bothers me. As long as we don't end up going down the route of ProEvo and calling them silly names then iit's still Man Utd to me. I know what the badge looks like, I know what the players look like. Don't need a constant reminder.

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    I agree

    I did used to change the English Premiers Division to English Premiership, but now I no longer care

    As long as the correct club names are there, I don't care what SI do with the naming of the leagues (call it English Top Division for all i care)

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    Why in gods name does the Premier league officials keep giving the Premiership License to EA for the Club badges to only be used on their game? Fifa manager is no where near popular as Football Manager and Football manager was top of the gaming league for the majority of this year with FM11, surely the Premier League would get more money if they were to either let EA and FM share the license or just give the license to us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyzer Soze View Post
    I was only talking about the "cosmetic" part of the license (kits, logos, facepacks).

    Do you mean, that you must have a license for the leagues?
    Can someone from SI please answer this question? We keep talking about licensing, but it would be great if someone from SI explained on this thread what types of licenses we are referring to. I think most people agree that what is important is having real club names for every league. If the name of the league is official or not, or if kits, logos, and facepacks are present, is a different issue.

    Is SI required to obtain licenses from specific leagues just to have the names of real clubs in the game??

    I understand that they have been acquiring more licenses for kits, fixtures, and official logos for every team. Disregarding official logos, official fixtures, facepacks, or official kits, etc......does SI need a license just to use real club names?

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