The way it is in Ireland, you must have a TV license if you have any TV in the household, regardless if it's in working condition or not, as it's deemed repairable.
But just so you know, they are changing this to a Media License, so if you have a computer or radio, or any form of communication, including internet, you must get this Media License.
Similarly with Football Manager, you have a single license with terms and conditions. Whether you like it or not, or agree with it or not. That's just fact.
And the other fact is, you need Steam to Authenticate the installation, so that SI can be sure that Licenses they sold in good faith are not being redistributed and used by 2 or more people.
You need Steam to play FM12. Most of the posts at the beginning were about how "poor Steam is", which were mostly unfounded. With a handful of people with genuine concerns.
Again, if your min specs meet FM12 requirements, and your machine will run FM12 - then it will definitely be able to handle Steam.
For those without an internet connection, they will have to jump through hoops to get Steam installed and authenticate the game. That's very unfortunate.
Cant be bothered to read one now and point out the blatantly silly things. Just read one once and you will see there are plenty of things in there that law allows you to do. Besides there is only one EULA and hundreds of different countries and states with different laws.
This whole thing is crazy.
when you buy software it comes with a license, that is an agreement, a contract, that you install it for yourself and nobody else.
FM was being sold on and being used by the person that sold it on. Clear breach of contract.
Steps being taken now to try prevent this, delay it or whatever.
You must use Steam and have an internet connection to activate your copy of the game.
If you don't like Steam then that's your business, you can't play FM12.
If you don't have an internet connection you'll have to be resourceful and come up with a plan. Laptops are easier to bring to internet cafe, hotel etc. Desktops not so much, so perhaps a friend, or someone in work, or a relative? Sort something out for yourself if you really want to play it.
Okay, I am fully read up (although I do type slowly) so I can carry on with why I came here.
Where Is The Steam FAQ?
and for that matter where is the FAQ, Helping & Advising People Without A Suitable Home Internet Connection?
For now I will concern myself with the former.
SI/SEGA must have taken into account the fact that they were likely to alienate and lose some existing customers by taking this activation route. Their company, their decision.
Various reasons have been given why previous customers won't be buying FM12 due to SI/SEGA's decision, ranging from principles to a personal dislike of Steam/Valve.
What SI/SEGA haven't done is take care not to upset or alienate previous customers whose concerns are based on the lack of information about Steam.
It is an utter disgrace that there wasn't a complete Steam FAQ posted at the same time as the announcement about Steam activation, and only incompetence or contempt can be put forward as an excuse for there still not being one. The announcement thread contains a lot of misleading and biased information, and if SI/SEGA extend the consideration, which led them to 'not take this decision lightly', to making sure everyone has the correct information, they may find they won't lose quite so many customers or goodwill, now or in the future.
Last edited by pigfacemonkeyman; 22-09-2011 at 14:45. Reason: typo
Or the more likely case of Steam having over 30 million users and they probably did not expect so many people to not know how it worked. Do not attribute things to malice which can be put down to under-estimating things. But I do fully agree that there should be a sticked FAQ about Steam and how it works.It is an utter disgrace that there wasn't a complete Steam FAQ posted at the same time as the announcement about Steam activation, and only incompetence or contempt can be put forward as an excuse for there still not being one. The announcement thread contains a lot of misleading and biased information, and if SI/SEGA extend the consideration, which led them to 'not take this decision lightly', to making sure everyone has the correct information, they may find they won't lose as many customers or goodwill, now or in the future.
New To Steam
Although I did say at the very start the there should a thread about Steam and what it is an all other related info.
Clearly SI didn't take into account that some people can't research these things themselves? And the people that didn't have the right information or seeked information came on here flaming Steam without justification, not bothering to ask questions. Some did, went off happy with the info they got.
Lets just say this is the last time I am looking in this thread. Specially when some people are just arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm not saying any names but I know one that is here, that is just here for the banter and will argue against anything that is said. Thus dragging the debate on longer than it should and not leaving this space for people with genuine issues.
Thanks Kriss. That is reassuring to know. I'm sure SI will be able to give all the facts about Steam.
And I hope it's a locked sticky thread for info only - like the blogs are done.
I forgot my analogy: If you want to know all about a BMW you don't go to a Ford showroom
another car analogy
Completely off topic, but once you get FM12 you simply must manage in Argentina Division 2, the refs wear the most lurid pink I've ever seen
when you buy software it comes with a license, that is an agreement this is rubbish ...
once you buy something its yours to do as you please . no if , not buts .
you buy a ford car . you sell it on , you buy a sony tv . you sell it on .... buit si want you to buy there game ...pay for there game ....but in fact it never really is yours ? WRONG WRONG
And google that as much as you like
Here's the mention of the iPad Software in their EULA
Check out the iPad 2 License regarding software and transferThe software (including Boot ROM code and other embedded software), documentation, interfaces, content, fonts and any data that came with your iPad
("Original iPad Software"), as may be updated or replaced by feature enhancements, software updates or system restore software provided by Apple ("iPad Software
Updates"), whether in read only memory, on any other media or in any other form (the Original iPad Software and iPad Software Updates are collectively referred to as the
“iPad Software") are licensed, not sold, to you by Apple Inc. ("Apple") for use only under the terms of this License. Apple and its licensors retain ownership of the iPad
Software itself and reserve all rights not expressly granted to you.
Even with iPads you have to transfer ownership to someone else. You can't retain anything.3. Transfer. You may not rent, lease, lend, sell, redistribute, or sublicense the iPad Software. You may, however, make a one-time permanent transfer of all of your license
rights to the iPad Software to another party in connection with the transfer of ownership of your iPad, provided that: (a) the transfer must include your iPad and all of the
iPad Software, including all its component parts, original media, printed materials and this License; (b) you do not retain any copies of the iPad Software, full or partial,
including copies stored on a computer or other storage device; and (c) the party receiving the iPad Software reads and agrees to accept the terms and conditions of this
Same goes with any Software. If you are selling it you may not keep any part of it. Same goes for FM. You may not keep a copy for yourself all of the ownership of the game must be transferred.
Do you think it's fair that you bought an iPad for $500 and then you can only use a memory hog of iTunes to update and transfer files thereto?
Remember iTunes is a 3rd Party App too.
Last edited by Eugene Tyson; 22-09-2011 at 15:43.
iPad was taken as an example.
Go ahead and look up ANY EULA pertaining to software.
Lets make this clear .
The main reason SI are doing this has nothing what so ever to do with piracy. or if they think it has they are very wrong .
at most there can only be in the 100s of pirate copys each year .. you only have to look at the seeds to tell only a few 100 download pirate copys ..
So SI why o why ... yes your sales have droped by the tens off 1000s . but trust me there are not tens of 1000s of folk that would even have the nohow in how to run a pirate copy ..
the real reason your sales have taken a big hit . is because the game is no longer fun to play for a lot of folk ..that is the hole truth of it .
EULAs are just exercising a legal right. It is not yours to do with as you please, however much you protest.
Eh that's not how you figure these things out. SI and/or Sega have teams that work on this.
Just because there 100 seeds. That only means 100 people are hosting it. Nothing to do with the amount of people that downloaded it.
In their post they stated that if 1/4 (a quarter) of the people that pirated the game actually bought the game it would double the sales.
So if there was 1,000,000 people buying it. Then there 4,000,000 people pirating it.
Think about that. Wouldn't you want your software protected somehow? At least to delay?
SI have no reason to lie to you. Nor do SEGA. Look into Steam. Look into what it was designed for.
These conspiracies of this not being a piracy issue are bizarre. It's completely to do with Piracy. Else they wouldn't bother locking people into Steam and not giving them another option.
They didn't do it for FM09, FM10, FM11 because they didn't have a good way of delaying piracy. Now they do. And they are using it.
Last edited by Eugene Tyson; 22-09-2011 at 15:50.
And the other thing i wanna add. why risk upsetting your main customs ... because lets face it ... every single game on steam to this day has been cracked ... so there will still be priate copys off the game anyway
So, if SI/SEGA or anyone else thinks that they can get most of the these countries to pay for a product they can't afford to start with then your statement will make sense - everything else is simply hear-say...
On top, we are back to EULA rules/laws plain and simply force us to have internet connections and have Steam present on our computers to run games...
The idea is to delay piracy.
I've said this about 20 times already but I'll go again.
In the past people who pre-ordered the game suddenly cancelled their pre-orders on the same day the pirated versions were released. So sales were lost before the game was even launched. Now not every person that cancelled was due to the pirated version being made available. But it's a pretty big coincidence.
Now SI have said that since they released the information about Steam only activation - that preorders have sky-rocketed compared to other years.
The idea here is it's not going to prevent piracy. But it will delay it. And the people that don't want Steam accounts banned, or people that won't trust 3rd party suppliers of a cracked game, will use Steam.
It's already working. They've already made more sales in pre-orders compared to other years.
So I ask, what's the difference in using a Steam (3rd party) legitimate install of the game - compared to using a 3rd party (torrent client) and downloading potentially malicious software - remember this is a cracked game - they can put all sorts of things into the download in the torrent.
Fact remains. Pirating is stealing.
As I said earlier. If 1/4 of the people that pirate actually pirate the game, then they will double their sales.
That means 1,000,000 people that buy the game, there are 4,000,000 people pirating it.
Can you blame them for wanting to get that figure down?
Once again you're wrong about EULAs but tbf you hadn't heard of them until recently so a degree of confusion is to be expected.
Last edited by afced7; 22-09-2011 at 16:10.
He can't Eugene
Forgive me if I find the repetitive replies based on party lines amusing. Pavlov would be proud.
The law states that the copyright holder has the exclusive right to make copies and that no-one else can do so without the copyright holder licensing them to do so. The word 'licence' is expressly used in the law.
The answer is "Well we're going to make it as hard as possible for you to get it for free!"
This could be cruel - but it's a semi-joke
SI should release their own pirated version of it with excellent download speeds and put a tracker in the code and track each and every person down.
I'll tell you, my friend, that it is no secret that a huge ammount of the % of piracy happens in countries that have a really low income, thus the reason for them having to pirate something they simply can't afford. So, to suggest that Steam will magically make these people richer in order to buy the game is frankly a sign of people being in a state of delusion, even if we delayed it the figures won't be anywhere near 25% - you seriously don't think these people can "afford" to wait a couple of days?
Yeah, if 25% of the people who drive VW bought a merc instead then profits for merc inc. would definatly double - just check out how much loose change you got in your wallet first. (I know I know, I'm sorry Kriss for mentioning the damn car)...
However if it will make you feel better, here's a little statistical analysis. There are just under 200,000 internet users in Armenia, while just over 51 million have internet access in the UK. So while the PROPORTION of people downloading pirated games is higher in Armenia, its very POSSIBLE that the actual amount of illegal downloaders is higher in the UK.
Last edited by afced7; 22-09-2011 at 16:28.
Last edited by Loversleaper; 22-09-2011 at 16:29.
Nobody, I'm pointing out the flaws in your argument that switching to steam won't have any effect on piracy. I can't comment on SI doubling their profits, but tbh you are not in a position to either, the only people who ARE is SI themselves.
Also very strange that you keep responding too, while adding less than anybody else to the discussion, when this is clearly far below your intellectual level.
Some replies I missed a few pages ago:
Patches are totally different since my "contact" with SI remains with respect to patches.
I somewhat trust their code - I don't necessarily trust anything beyond that.
FM + Steam (with chat) = 2 applications
FM + Ventrillo (say) = 2 applications
i.e. they are the same, but Ventrillo is not forced by FM.
If I wanted these games, I would get Steam but it would be independent of me obtaining FM.
All that format suggests is that it has lots of "pointers" to other resources, which supposedly speeds up things. In all honesty, that makes no sense since those files could get fragmented too and the pointers end up being wrong. The whole purpose of a file is that you do not need to worry about fragmentation. On a file system with no fragmentation, such a scheme might be advantageous, but a defragmented system happens once in a blue moon and performance is probably going to be worse once it does get fragmented.
In addition, on SSDs, fragmentation is not an issue since they have incredibly quick read speeds and don't rely on moving parts.
We're comparing Steam vs. nothing here. So a third-party cloud application is one application - not one "more" application. Dropbox is one application, as is Steam. So there isn't "more junk" - it's "junk".
On Amazon, I'm not just restricted to software, either. I can buy goods and order them as gifts. I'm not restricted to video games.
Not really surprising, since Amazon is an online retail store and will always be better than Steam in this respect.
If an unfamiliar company (to you) has some negative points (in, say, the media), then you would be right to repeat these concerns to others even if you haven't experienced it. You don't need to have cancer to study its symptoms.
It is, however, up to this unfamiliar company to alleviate your concerns if they want your custom. I don't have to undergo this leap of faith.
Otherwise, I could argue that you should go into every single unfamiliar shop in the world, since it would be up to you to produce evidence that they were bad before I agreed with you!
Steam cannot address my concerns since they are fundamental to any DRM platform/platform that stores financial details/online platform.
Last edited by afced7; 22-09-2011 at 16:51.
P.S. EULA is the reason we all have to have internet connections and have Steam present on our computers to play video games... :another-give-up-smiley:
Last edited by Loversleaper; 22-09-2011 at 16:52.
I've not got the time to trawl through this thread so apologies, as I'm sure this question will have already been asked?
Will I be able to install FM12 on my desktop using STEAM, and then also be able to play the game on a laptop without an internet connection?
still can't get steam working correctly on my mac (OSX Lion), shame really was looking forward to FM12
will be sticking with FM11.
Steam support = Useless
Basically because not everybody in a specified country has the ability to get a pirate copy.I'm not quite getting this, could you please explain why?
I suppose if you wanted to be even MORE accurate you'd want to look at the number of people with computer access to account for pirate copies which are sold/given away in physical form (i.e. somebody downloads a pirate copy, then makes multiple copies and puts them onto discs) rather than just downloaded.
Last edited by afced7; 22-09-2011 at 17:08.
Last edited by afced7; 22-09-2011 at 17:07.
Well my original point, which I will state for the LAST time, since you're so bored of people repeating themselves, that piracy rates on their own aren't enough to back up Loversleapers point, still stands.
Care to refute that instead of just attacking me?I'd just like to point out that piracy RATE could be a little misleading, it is possible that while a country such as Armenia has a higher piracy rate than say the UK, more people overall may illegally download software in the UK.
Last edited by afced7; 22-09-2011 at 17:22.
I think it is best that we don't talk about this anymore so you don't feel attacked. Sorry to have made you feel the way you do.
Heinkel used to make a bubble car, it didn't fly either
I've also sat through an interminably dull 113 slide presentation at Microsoft about counterfeiting (three times - what did I do to deserve that?) that talked about the scale of organised crime in China. Given the ease of availability to the 'man on the street', I'd say population would have to come into it.
Looking it up might not be accurate compared to what you meant, I think what you meant was that I was clutching at straws or something. Let's get back on track as we are doing no favors for the point of the whole thread. There are good arguments being thrown up and I simply don't want to have a mud-throwing contest with you. If you feel attacked then for what it's worth, take my apology (although you have stated it wasn't directed at me) and let's please let the matter lie.
Nowhere there do I suggest that we have more internet connections, just that piracy rate CAN be misleading on its own. If you disagree, please quote my post where I stated that the west has more internet connections that other countries.I'd just like to point out that piracy RATE could be a little misleading, it is possible that while a country such as Armenia has a higher piracy rate than say the UK, more people overall may illegally download software in the UK.
Last edited by afced7; 22-09-2011 at 17:52.
Last edited by Loversleaper; 22-09-2011 at 18:07.
Not at all, congratulations for finally understanding after 2 1/2 hours, and hey, you learned what a straw man argument looks like, maybe you'll be better prepared for any future debates. Enjoy your dinner.
That's one way to cure my 18 year addiction. Shame they couldn't have done this when I was at Uni .
It's not fun any more. I don't want to play.
Nonetheless this decision will cause a number of fans to stop playing FM and that's a fact. From my (very) limited personal experience (which includes myself and a few friends of mine, plus what I've read in this thread) I can tell you that a fair share of those are long time customers and older fans.
Like many others, I like to think that the success of SI and CM/FM is strongly related to the goodwill and passion of their diehard fans, and you must give credit to SI for building and developing this bond probably like nobody else. Now I think this move is a serious threat to that bond, and may eventually harm the game more than sales or numbers could ever show.
just my opinion.
But i also believe that SI respects, a lot, the bond. Every year we have proof of the great respect that SI have for all users and the dedication that they have in offering a good game.
This decision, as Miles said, was not taken lightly and perhaps they even think..."this will **** off a couple of users". But now i ask you, where is the BOND when for a simple reason as it is this one (installing a software like steam), people that play this games for ages, just like that stop playing it?
I not here trying to change anyone mind, yours in particulary, but i really find hard to understand that a football manager fan, a person that play this game, that love this game for 10/15 years, just turn the back to all this because of a reason like this one.
But hey, perhaps you think..."how do these people accept to continue playing when they are forced to install steam?!?!?!?!"
As for me, I got used to see SI as a company that has great respect for those who spend money on their products. And as such, could never consider this situation (Steamgate) as a personal attack, or a lack of respect.
It got me thinking... if it was another company... EA, Konami....perhaps! But its ****ing SI! it's ****ing FM! If they ask... install steam! ok, no problem!
But like you... just my opinion!
I was just listening to some music and it got me thinking about something, I remember somewhere that it was mentioned about how piracy was really effecting the industry (to the point where FM could actually go extinct). The same thing was talked about in the music industry and the movie industry, these industries were eventually hit really hard. There isn't a limit to what you can download for free anywhere on the net - a darn lot easier then downloading computer games with that torrent bits stuff and what not. So, I was wondering if the music has got worse? Statistically = not really, but my personal oppinion it's a yeah (but I still like The Beatles). Is the music industry on the verge of extinction? Highly unlikely.
What about movies? Have they got any worse or on the verge of extinction? Are they going broke? Charlie Sheen just got 100m Dolores so it can't be that bad. I think somewhere it was mentioned that the gamming industry grew to the biggest of the three, so I think it is safe to assume that FM will survive. Maybe they won't make a zillion - maybe have to work a little harder for their buck, maybe make a game that blows your mind to keep themselves on top of the game. I can't see this as a bad thing, on the contrary, I can't find the power in me to feel sorry for these people. Maybe I am harsh and should show compassion, I just think there are a lot of people who comes way before them...
I am not anti FM and have never been. I have always done work over in the T&T and most likely will carry on doing so, I have always enjoyed the ME no matter how comical it can behave at times. There are lot's of great things in FM and some things that are not so fun - but overall lots of great fun. I'm a gamers gamer, I'll stick up for a gamer over the corp anyday - that is why I have taken my standpoint. I know that we probably are kidding ourselves to thinking we can make a difference writing on this forum - but it is quite evident that this is an issue. The closed polls weren't exactly favorable for the move - and that is from gamers who have internet connection (and visit the site). I was wondering what the (retrievable) piracy rate compares to the ammount that downloaded from Steam last year is perceived - I hope of course they got it right, but I can't help feeling that we somehow have been bullied into this reality to play the game we all enjoy (and hope to keep enjoying)...
Last edited by Loversleaper; 22-09-2011 at 23:43.
There are several reasons I simply can't accept to install Steam to play FM, both practical or based on principles and all have been well explained by users like Mantralux, Pigfacemonkeyman and x42bn6 (and many others actually). I consider you somewhat lucky as these reasons aren't enough for you to stop playing the game. Unfortunately for me and a few other people, they are.
I don't consider the "Steamgate" a personal attack or a lack of respect towards me. I think it's a cold business decision more than anything else. Which in my eyes makes SI just like EA, Konami or any other company. As I said I can't blame them for that.
Just a question...
If my laptop breaks down, will I be able to deactivate it somewhere else(since my laptop cannot be on) so that I can play on another 1 machine?
Last edited by vasilli07; 23-09-2011 at 05:56.