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Thread: A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainPlanet View Post
    There's some resiliency built in to allow for mistakes, but it's still against the terms of usage.
    Stop confusing people, you can play on a million PC's but only ever one at a time, that was the question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Themer View Post
    There are alot of fallacies being spouted on here about steam. I have a PC and a laptop in my house both of which have steam on them which automatically login when started. If I go on my PC when someone is already on the laptop it simply tells me I'm logged on elsewhere and can I sign in, having to physically put in my password. After I've done this it automatically logs me out of the laptop. You don't get banned or anything silly, they do realise some people might have a PC and laptop.
    Yes there is, and a lot of it is coming from people who are ok with Steam passing on misleading information

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevgaleuk View Post
    Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of SI's decision to force just one way to play the game on the consumer can I ask a separate question that I have not seen tackled here?

    Where are Steam based? If they are US or elsewise outside of the UK then unless I am very wrong then they are NOT tied to any data protection laws in the UK. Can SI/Sega confirm what the data security measures are and that Steam/whomever the parent company is are tied to data protection laws in the country OF THE CONSUMER not their base? I am assuming no financial information needs to be given but my email address is a valuable asset and I work very hard to ensure I don't get spam from companies by not signing up to much.

    I work in the data world so my other questions are:

    What personal information am I REQUIRED to provide in order to create an account and activate the game?

    What OPT-OUTS do they have for providing data (I am hoping they don't just squirrel away that by agreeing to install Steam you are letting them have access to your data? Can I opt-out of not only 3rd Party but Steam/Holding company too?

    Thanks
    If you don't plan on buying games from them you will not have to enter bank detail or personal detail. i just created an account all it asked me for was what part of the world I live in, and to pick a username, password and email address (set up a new email address, if you don't want to get bombarded with anything in your main account.) Has for the rest I have no idea.

    EDIT: Oh Steam is a US based company

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevgaleuk View Post
    Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of SI's decision to force just one way to play the game on the consumer can I ask a separate question that I have not seen tackled here?

    Where are Steam based? If they are US or elsewise outside of the UK then unless I am very wrong then they are NOT tied to any data protection laws in the UK. Can SI/Sega confirm what the data security measures are and that Steam/whomever the parent company is are tied to data protection laws in the country OF THE CONSUMER not their base? I am assuming no financial information needs to be given but my email address is a valuable asset and I work very hard to ensure I don't get spam from companies by not signing up to much.

    I work in the data world so my other questions are:

    What personal information am I REQUIRED to provide in order to create an account and activate the game?

    What OPT-OUTS do they have for providing data (I am hoping they don't just squirrel away that by agreeing to install Steam you are letting them have access to your data? Can I opt-out of not only 3rd Party but Steam/Holding company too?

    Thanks
    Get a free mailbox with Hotmail, Gmail or wherever and use that whenever you have to sign up for something with a valid email address. I've got one that I use as a spam trap and it's pretty decent about filtering out spam as it is and I just have to login occasionally to clean things up and read the valid emails that I want to. You're not forced into using you home email address anywhere, especially on Steam.

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    Now stop discussing circumvention of the protection please folks, all the questions asked here are clearly answered on the Steam website and/or forums, that's the obvious place to look for info on the workings of it.

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    Maybe this kind of thing had a bearing on SI/Sega's decision:http://www.reghardware.com/2011/08/2...steam_support/

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    Quote Originally Posted by pigfacemonkeyman View Post
    Yes there is, and a lot of it is coming from people who are ok with Steam passing on misleading information
    and from people not ok with steam, passing on misleading information...

    Kriss any chance of a definitive Steam FAQ being put up? Probably been asked before but i think i missed it

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    I imagine all these people who don't like Steam are over 40 and afraid of change...

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    Quote Originally Posted by swirlypop69 View Post
    I imagine all these people who don't like Steam are over 40 and afraid of change...
    Stupid insular attitude.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swirlypop69 View Post
    I imagine all these people who don't like Steam are over 40 and afraid of change...
    I really don't understand why people feel the need to post this sort of rubbish?

    Some people don't want to use Steam. End of story.

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    Why the QQing about Steam?

    "I just don't like it" is hardly a reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swirlypop69 View Post
    Why the QQing about Steam?

    "I just don't like it" is hardly a reason.
    Firstly, cut the attitude. You're not making yourself sound clever by talking down to anyone who doesn't want to use Steam with your 1337 gamer speech.

    Second, if you'd bother to read just a page of the thread you'll find about ten different reasons as to why people are reluctant to rely totally on Steam.

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    Well if people don't want to use Steam they are out of luck.

    That's what is required to play FM12. If you buy FM12 you'll need to have Steam and internet connection.

    Otherwise don't buy it.

    No amount of posts here will change their minds now. One can only hope that their sales are hit hard and they may rethink it.

    However, I will be buying it. I look forward to playing the game. Steam use doesn't bother me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swirlypop69 View Post
    Why the QQing about Steam?

    "I just don't like it" is hardly a reason.
    It is a reason. Do you like marmite. I don't and I havent tasted it just don't like the look of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene Tyson View Post
    Well if people don't want to use Steam they are out of luck.

    That's what is required to play FM12. If you buy FM12 you'll need to have Steam and internet connection.

    Otherwise don't buy it.

    No amount of posts here will change their minds now. One can only hope that their sales are hit hard and they may rethink it.

    However, I will be buying it. I look forward to playing the game. Steam use doesn't bother me.
    Is it me or have you said that before?

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    Yep. The same as others who have said "they won't buy FM12 because you have to use Steam" x 100

    *edited*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene Tyson View Post
    Well if people don't want to use Steam they are out of luck.

    That's what is required to play FM12. If you buy FM12 you'll need to have Steam and internet connection.
    I can live with the idea of being forced to use a software I don't trust, but possibly having to move country to play the game is a completely different matter

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    lol you tell me not to talk down to people and then do the same to me, hypocrisy must be alright then. QQing was just easier to write.

    I have read a lot of this thread, most people either seem to be afraid by change, misinformed, or just determined to kick up a fuss because SI did something without asking them first.
    Last edited by swirlypop69; 19-09-2011 at 16:14. Reason: typo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene Tyson View Post
    Yep. The same as others who have said "they won't buy FM12 because you have to use Steam" x 100

    *edited*
    I think you'll find that lots of people have said that once, not the same person saying it hundreds of times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edwingray View Post
    I can live with the idea of being forced to use a software I don't trust, but possibly having to move country to play the game is a completely different matter
    Where do you live?
    Last edited by themadsheep2001; 19-09-2011 at 16:19. Reason: spelling

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Welsh Lad View Post
    It is a reason. Do you like marmite. I don't and I havent tasted it just don't like the look of it.
    I don't like Preston North End, please remove them from the game SI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swirlypop69 View Post
    I don't like Preston North End, please remove them from the game SI.
    Brilliant. Such insight. What a valid point.

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    As valid as yours? Which was my point in the first place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakers View Post
    I think you'll find that lots of people have said that once, not the same person saying it hundreds of times.
    So you're saying I can't repeat my opinion because you personally have read it before.

    Regardless that others new to the discussion might not have read all the posts in the thread?

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    That doens't mean you need to post it twice on every page.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swirlypop69 View Post
    lol you tell me not to talk down to people and then do the same to me, hypocrisy must be alright then. QQing was just easier to write.

    I have read a lot of this thread, most people either seem to be afraid by change, misinformed, or just determined to kick up a fuss because SI did something without asking them first.
    But why do you care if people like, or not, steam? Or why do you care if people will stop buying FM because of steam? It's their decision!

    SI/SEGA made a decision, and they have all the right to do it, to implement steam as a activation method.

    Now the users have all the right to decide, or not, to buy the game! I dont see any problem with all the process.

    As long as SI/SEGA state in the box that steam will be needed, and that a internet conection will be needed to activate the game, then everything is fine.

    I've been reading this thread again, also some of my own posts, and sometimes people get a little carry away...

    I mean, it's SI/SEGA game, so they have all the right to decide what to do with it! As long as they inform all the potential buyers, which they will, what the problem?

    At the end, its a simple decision to buy or not to buy the game? If it's because steam, or because you dont like the new features, or because your PC it's crap and dont run the game, at the end it's always a simple decision... buy or not!

    And i dont think that anyone as to justify!

    I will buy it! With or without steam! Others will do something different! End of story!
    Last edited by Keyzer Soze; 19-09-2011 at 16:26.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyzer Soze View Post
    But why do you care if people like, or not, steam? Or why do you care if people will stop buying FM because of steam? It's their decision!

    SI/SEGA made a decision, and they have all the right to do it, to implement steam as a activation method.

    Now the users have all the right to decide, or not, to buy the game! I dont see any problem with all the process.

    As long as SI/SEGA state in the box that steam will be needed, and that a internet conection will be needed to activate the game, then everything is fine.

    I've been reading this thread again, also some of my own posts, and sometimes people get a little carry away...

    I mean, it's SI/SEGA game, so they have all the right to decide what to do with it! As long as they inform all the potential buyers, wich they will, what the problem?

    At the end, its a simple decision to buy or not to buy the game? If it's because steam, or because you dont like the new features, or because your PC it's crap and dont run the game, at the end it's always a simple decision... buy or not!

    And i dont think that anyone as to justify!

    I will buy it! With or without steam! Others will do something different! End of story!
    I don't care if people like it or not, I just don't think that's a valid reason not to buy the game.

    Otherwise, nice post

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    Quote Originally Posted by swirlypop69 View Post
    I don't care if people like it or not, I just don't think that's a valid reason not to buy the game.

    Otherwise, nice post
    You have every right to think that it's not a valid reason, but you must respect those who think it's a valid one!

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    Ah Keyzer the nice voice of reason

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    Exactly Keyser.

    Nothing is going to change that for FM12. Unless there's a serious drop in sales. FM12 will need Steam and Internet.

    It's not a hard decision, as Keyser points out.

    I hope it works out for SI and Sega and that sales are good and plentiful to continue producing the game.

    I'm willing to go the Steam route, not entirely happy about it. But it's the way it is. I'll do it for FM12. Because I want to play the game. Regardless of any hoops I have to jump through. And if these hoops mean less piracy then I'm down with that.

    Again, I work in an industry where pirating software is destroying the trade. And I'm all for anti-piracy techniques and I applaud and support SI and Sega for taking steps to try make it better for their industry.

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    They could expand a bit more on it is all I ask, give a why and then people can respond to it, as has been happening in some cases. Most of it seems to be out of misinformation and just the general love of forum users for a good whine. Stating "I don't like it" is about as useful as most of my posts!

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    the only problem i've seen so far, is that there is a lot of bad information about steam, the activation process, the patching process, etc etc

    And if there is people who have made up their mind, some are still trying to decide.

    And in some degree, this thread is not being very helpfull, in some cases quite the opposite.

    It's had been mention before by many users, SI should create a new thread with some FAQ, and with one or two mods (that really understand the steam process) to help everybody making the best personal decision!

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    Quote Originally Posted by swirlypop69 View Post
    They could expand a bit more on it is all I ask, give a why and then people can respond to it, as has been happening in some cases. Most of it seems to be out of misinformation and just the general love of forum users for a good whine. Stating "I don't like it" is about as useful as most of my posts!
    We have been through it all, i think Kezyer is right, we might think they are wrong, but it is their choice and you have to respect that. All the info about steam is out there, if anyone decides to change their mind, but i dont think anyone in this thread will be won over in a hurry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyzer Soze View Post

    It's had been mention before by many users, SI should create a new thread with some FAQ, and with one or two mods (that really understand the steam process) to help everybody making the best personal decision!
    It's something I mentioned from the start. I saw a rake of things about Steam that didn't seem right to me. A mod/forum head guy said they would look into doing something like that? Not sure how far along they've gotten or if they even will?

    Anyway it would be great to have a topic about Steam with all those FAQ answered thoroughly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene Tyson View Post
    It's something I mentioned from the start. I saw a rake of things about Steam that didn't seem right to me. A mod/forum head guy said they would look into doing something like that? Not sure how far along they've gotten or if they even will?

    Anyway it would be great to have a topic about Steam with all those FAQ answered thoroughly.
    I know you did Eugene. And sooner the better! I think SI should do this... yesterday! It's for their own interest!

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    SI barely even need to create an FAQ, the majority of information they can just lift from the Steam Support section (for example, a how to for offline mode). Should be easy enough!

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    There were some things I thought I knew about Steam, but obviously I was wrong. I didn't help matters giving my opinion on things where I had it wrong.

    I think SI have stopped looking at this thread now, imo (not fact)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Bladesman View Post
    I really don't get the Steam bashing, it's generally a great product. I pretty much only buy games via Steam now - if it ain't on Steam, I'm unlikely to buy it.
    And that's all well and good for YOU and other people who have no issues with Steam. But from my experience your post would look more like this...

    I fully understand Steam bashing, it's generally caused me problems and I have issues with many of Steam's principles. I avoid buying games via Steam now - if it's only available on Steam, I'm unlikely to buy it.
    It seems that this is an issue that is pretty much polarising opinion to one extreme or the other - love or hate. There seems to very little middle ground.

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    I'm surprised they didn't at least link to Steam website. Would give people a chance to actually look at the program and get to grips with it in advance and remove some of the fear of the unknown. They also have a fairly comprehensive Support section where I'm sure people could find out answers to most of their questions whilst the mods, or whoever, reword some of it to make it more FM specific.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Welsh Lad View Post
    It is a reason. Do you like marmite. I don't and I havent tasted it just don't like the look of it.
    Bet you don't go wittering on about not liking it to the makers though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swirlypop69 View Post
    SI barely even need to create an FAQ, the majority of information they can just lift from the Steam Support section (for example, a how to for offline mode). Should be easy enough!
    Reading that link it suggests that the game must have the latest patch installed, am I reading it correctly?

    In the past I've seen people mention that they do not play FM with the latest patch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swirlypop69 View Post
    SI barely even need to create an FAQ, the majority of information they can just lift from the Steam Support section (for example, a how to for offline mode). Should be easy enough!
    This may be true, but the large majority of the people here are FM users... not Steam users.

    I would like to see a FAQ specific for FM.

    Simple things like... would the steam instalation file be on the disk? do we need to install it, or will it be automatically installed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene Tyson View Post
    Well if people don't want to use Steam they are out of luck.

    That's what is required to play FM12. If you buy FM12 you'll need to have Steam and internet connection.

    Otherwise don't buy it.

    No amount of posts here will change their minds now. One can only hope that their sales are hit hard and they may rethink it.

    However, I will be buying it. I look forward to playing the game. Steam use doesn't bother me.
    People who have concerns about this method of activation have come here asking for advice or information, it is not going to help them to make their decision if the advice or information offered is incorrect, half true, or biased for/against one company or another. I would say that anyone who posts they are ok with Steam, who answer peoples questions, should be more careful that their answers are based on fact, as they are more likely to be believed than a Steam knocker.
    And please don't take this as a titfortat, us/them thing. I have said nothing against Steam, I have never used Steam and therefore can't answer these questions. I would just like the people who can to check their facts before they do.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene Tyson View Post
    So you're saying I can't repeat my opinion because you personally have read it before.

    Regardless that others new to the discussion might not have read all the posts in the thread?
    Of course you are free to express your opinion, and repeat it as long as the moderators allow, just be aware how unhelpful it is to answer peoples queries based on your opinion rather than facts.


    EDIT; Just seen post #2269 after already posting the above.
    Last edited by pigfacemonkeyman; 19-09-2011 at 17:05.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene Tyson View Post
    There were some things I thought I knew about Steam, but obviously I was wrong. I didn't help matters giving my opinion on things where I had it wrong.

    I think SI have stopped looking at this thread now, imo (not fact)?
    I'd assume so, they made their position clear, not much point in commenting on this argument which looked like it was dying out but just keeps going round and round in circles

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barside View Post
    Reading that link it suggests that the game must have the latest patch installed, am I reading it correctly?

    In the past I've seen people mention that they do not play FM with the latest patch.
    no you must have steam updated i think is what it is getting at, there is no need for FM to be updated, but you cannot choose which patch to use

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyzer Soze View Post
    But why do you care if people like, or not, steam? Or why do you care if people will stop buying FM because of steam? It's their decision!

    SI/SEGA made a decision, and they have all the right to do it, to implement steam as a activation method.

    Now the users have all the right to decide, or not, to buy the game! I dont see any problem with all the process.

    As long as SI/SEGA state in the box that steam will be needed, and that a internet conection will be needed to activate the game, then everything is fine.

    I've been reading this thread again, also some of my own posts, and sometimes people get a little carry away...

    I mean, it's SI/SEGA game, so they have all the right to decide what to do with it! As long as they inform all the potential buyers, which they will, what the problem?

    At the end, its a simple decision to buy or not to buy the game? If it's because steam, or because you dont like the new features, or because your PC it's crap and dont run the game, at the end it's always a simple decision... buy or not!

    And i dont think that anyone as to justify!

    I will buy it! With or without steam! Others will do something different! End of story!
    Most have no problem activating the game. The problem lies in the fact we have to keep Steam AFTER activation when we have no need or want for it. As i've said previously, i reckon 90% of people would be all for an "Activate/Delete." option.

    Give people options and they will be happy as more often than not everyone will find a method or option that suits them best.

    Take those options away and you stir the hornets nest.

    If SI/Sega were honestly thinking about this say.... 2 months AFTER FM11 was released then they had ample time to look at the options but also consult with us, ask for our opinions, give us a poll on possible options that were being looked at. By not doing this they haven't taken away options but denied us the chance to perhaps create options.

    Ford decide to sell cars in just one colour.... Pink. How would that affect sales? Ford have every right to do it, but is it smart to do it?

    Same applies here, we only have two options. Buy with Steam or don't. Some won't buy it, some will but in the end help us and help yourselves.

    Some people may want to keep Steam and buy more games from them.

    >Others will want to use Steam to activate and then get rid of it.<

    Others won't use Steam at all, even for activation and won't buy the game.

    By adding that middle option you give people a choice to use SI/Sega's chosen method of activation but then remove it once we have showed that we have bought this game through legal means and that we are loyal and honest customers.

    Innocent until proven guilty. Let us prove our innocence by activating but don't punish us as if we are guilty afterwards by forcing us to continue to use Steam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by afced7 View Post
    Bet you don't go wittering on about not liking it to the makers though.
    Ye and no one is forcing it on him like SI are with steam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    no you must have steam updated i think is what it is getting at, there is no need for FM to be updated, but you cannot choose which patch to use
    If that's the case then it is a little vague, by referring to needing the game files updated I would read that as indicated that to play FM11 offline it must be running on 11.3.

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    hahahahahaha brilliant the car analogies are back, where is Kriss???!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barside View Post
    Reading that link it suggests that the game must have the latest patch installed, am I reading it correctly?

    In the past I've seen people mention that they do not play FM with the latest patch.
    Not necessarily. You could turn Automatic updates off and it should still work in offline mode. Or if you only use Steam for FM then once you've activated it, and set it up correctly, then you need never go in Online mode again and can play unpatched. As is my understanding.

    Please note that you must connect to the Steam Network and test each of the games you would like to use in Offline Mode at least once to set up your account and configure Offline Mode on your machine.
    Once your account is set up and you have activated FM12 then you need never go online with Steam again (unless you change your mind and want the patches )

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barside View Post
    If that's the case then it is a little vague, by referring to needing the game files updated I would read that as indicated that to play FM11 offline it must be running on 11.3.
    you could have read this bit"

    Offline Mode allows you to play games through Steam without reconnecting to the Steam Network every time you wish to play - this is particularly useful if you do not plan on playing over the internet and would prefer not to download new updates for your single-player games."

    which would hopefully have answered your question

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barside View Post
    Reading that link it suggests that the game must have the latest patch installed, am I reading it correctly?

    In the past I've seen people mention that they do not play FM with the latest patch.
    from what I understand ... and I'm not sure i'm:

    a) Steam will always download and install the latest game patch unless:

    a.1) you have steam set as offline
    a.2) you set, in preferences of your steam acount, to not update automatically.

    So, if this is right, you can play the game without the lastest patch. When you decide that it's time to install the patch, you undo "a.1" or "a.2" and automatically the patch is download and install!

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddymunster View Post
    Ye and no one is forcing it on him like SI are with steam.
    He has the choice not to buy it, same as he does with any product. They aren't forcing anything on anybody. Don't like it? Don't buy it.

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    I wish a mod would at least update the first post with this URL!

    https://support.steampowered.com/kb_cat.php?id=3

    As it seems to take them forever to write an FAQ!

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    hahahahahaha brilliant the car analogies are back, where is Kriss???!!
    Isn't that an instant ban?

    After installing Steam & after 3 days finally getting access to my dormant account I do see one huge upside that could lead to advances in FM that I would like to see, 64bit dedicated coding if the numbers stack up & a faster push to improved graphics & interface if again the hardware figures suggest that the majority of FM owners could support a rapid improvement.

    I still have concerns but will be assessing them over the coming months as I did not intend to by FM12 until Jan/February anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyzer Soze View Post
    from what I understand ... and I'm not sure i'm:

    So, if this is right, you can play the game without the lastest patch. When you decide that it's time to install the patch, you undo "a.1" or "a.2" and automatically the patch is download and install!
    But someone could not go back to 12.2 if they found something they didn't like in the ME of 12.3, this would never be a problem for me as I always play with the latest patch installed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyzer Soze View Post
    from what I understand ... and I'm not sure i'm:

    a) Steam will always download and install the latest game patch unless:

    a.1) you have steam set as offline
    a.2) you set, in preferences of your steam acount, to not update automatically.

    So, if this is right, you can play the game without the lastest patch. When you decide that it's time to install the patch, you undo "a.1" or "a.2" and automatically the patch is download and install!
    I believe you cannot select which patch you want the game to stop at if you are updating the game. So if you're playing 12.0 and the latest version is 12.2, you cannot install the game from scratch and update to 12.1, you can either stay at 12.0 or upgrade to 12.2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barside View Post
    Isn't that an instant ban?

    After installing Steam & after 3 days finally getting access to my dormant account I do see one huge upside that could lead to advances in FM that I would like to see, 64bit dedicated coding if the numbers stack up & a faster push to improved graphics & interface if again the hardware figures suggest that the majority of FM owners could support a rapid improvement.

    I still have concerns but will be assessing them over the coming months as I did not intend to by FM12 until Jan/February anyway.
    Ah if only, was it yourself involved in that convo? It appears everything to do with FM, can be compared to anything to do with a car, its brilliant really.
    Yeah best bet mate, wait it out, see what the feedback is like, if you were planning to buy in Jan anyway you have nothing to lose!! You should download steam tho and give it a few weeks, you can browse and download a few free games, or cheap ones, work with it, set it offline and see how you get on, keep it online, everything possible, and obviously if you dont like it you dont like it.

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    The Main problem is definitely the fact steam has to remain on your drive, is there a possibility of activation then removing the software used but remembering the honest players who have done this but un-installed?

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    Nope. Steam must be running.

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    steam cannot be removed if you want to play FM. It must be there to unlock the game every time you want to play it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OlieIsArsenal View Post
    The Main problem is definitely the fact steam has to remain on your drive, is there a possibility of activation then removing the software used but remembering the honest players who have done this but un-installed?
    Can I ask what you reason is for not wanting Steam installed after activation?

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    If Steam is going to stop piracy, and if 80% of FM's in use are pirated, does that mean the game will be 20% of the price this year?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_no_7 View Post
    Most have no problem activating the game. The problem lies in the fact we have to keep Steam AFTER activation when we have no need or want for it. As i've said previously, i reckon 90% of people would be all for an "Activate/Delete." option.

    Give people options and they will be happy as more often than not everyone will find a method or option that suits them best.

    Take those options away and you stir the hornets nest.

    If SI/Sega were honestly thinking about this say.... 2 months AFTER FM11 was released then they had ample time to look at the options but also consult with us, ask for our opinions, give us a poll on possible options that were being looked at. By not doing this they haven't taken away options but denied us the chance to perhaps create options.

    Ford decide to sell cars in just one colour.... Pink. How would that affect sales? Ford have every right to do it, but is it smart to do it?

    Same applies here, we only have two options. Buy with Steam or don't. Some won't buy it, some will but in the end help us and help yourselves.

    Some people may want to keep Steam and buy more games from them.

    >Others will want to use Steam to activate and then get rid of it.<

    Others won't use Steam at all, even for activation and won't buy the game.

    By adding that middle option you give people a choice to use SI/Sega's chosen method of activation but then remove it once we have showed that we have bought this game through legal means and that we are loyal and honest customers.

    Innocent until proven guilty. Let us prove our innocence by activating but don't punish us as if we are guilty afterwards by forcing us to continue to use Steam.
    I think we're all adults and intelligent and we know why steam cant be delete after the activation is complete: Commercial Business!

    Of course that steam system must have to keep on your computer, as it can get at medium or long term more customers, sell more games. its business! are the rules of the game!

    Nothing is made without money in this world, i'm pretty sure that SI/SEGA receives money from steam for using them to activate the game. It makes sence that things happen like that. Steam needs to attract more costumers, SI/SEGA need money to continue making FM.

    I really dont think the SI/SEGA are cheating FM users with this. They ate defending their business, as we all do.

    They will only be cheating, if they didn't tell us, and you would only found out that you need steam to activate the game, when you arrive home and install the game. But that's not the case. They inform us, so we have all the info we need to decide if we want to buy or not.
    Last edited by Keyzer Soze; 19-09-2011 at 17:27.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    hahahahahaha brilliant the car analogies are back, where is Kriss???!!
    Yeah, sesame seed buns are much better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainPlanet View Post
    I believe you cannot select which patch you want the game to stop at if you are updating the game. So if you're playing 12.0 and the latest version is 12.2, you cannot install the game from scratch and update to 12.1, you can either stay at 12.0 or upgrade to 12.2.
    Yes, i think that you ate right! it's the latest patch, or no patch at all!

    Perhaps this could be something that SI/SEGA could negotiate with steam, in order to have available not only the latest patch, but also previous one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyzer Soze View Post
    Nothing is made without made in this world, i'm pretty sure that SI/SEGA receives money from steam for using them to activate the game. It makes sence that things happen like that. Steam needs to attract more costumers, SI/SEGA need money to continue making FM.
    Actually from a commercial point of view Sega should pay Steam for use of the activation service, the service provider would have to assume that a number of people registering to activate a title will not venture anywhere near their download store so they are just taking up space with no potential revenue.

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    Didn't SI or someone from Sega say already that no money was exchanged between Steam?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barside View Post
    Actually from a commercial point of view Sega should pay Steam for use of the activation service, the service provider would have to assume that a number of people registering to activate a title will not venture anywhere near their download store so they are just taking up space with no potential revenue.
    On the other hand, with this activation system, steam are getting a bunch of new clients. For each 100 new costumers, 5 of them leave steam online, and because of that buy one or two game from them... as i said... it's business!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene Tyson View Post
    Didn't SI or someone from Sega say already that no money was exchanged between Steam?
    Ok, no money envolved! But with this partnership beetween SEGA/SI/Steam, SEGA and SI gets a protection system to their game, and Steam gets a bunch of new costumers! It's a win-win situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyzer Soze View Post
    I think we're all adults and intelligent and we know why steam cant be delete after the activation is complete: Commercial Business!

    Of course that steam system must have to keep on your computer, as it can get at medium or long term more customers, sell more games. its business! are the rules of the game!

    Nothing is made without money in this world, i'm pretty sure that SI/SEGA receives money from steam for using them to activate the game. It makes sence that things happen like that. Steam needs to attract more costumers, SI/SEGA need money to continue making FM.

    I really dont think the SI/SEGA are cheating FM users with this. They ate defending their business, as we all do.

    They will only be cheating, if they didn't tell us, and you would only found out that you need steam to activate the game, when you arrive home and install the game. But that's not the case. They inform us, so we have all the info we need to decide if we want to buy or not.
    So far there is no mention of 'Steam activation through the internet' on the FM12 pre-order page over at SEGA!

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    I'll ask again

    - Will people know at the time of purchase that the game can only be activated online?

    - If so, is it stated in big bold letters on the front of the cover or is it written in font 2 at the back?

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barside View Post
    Actually from a commercial point of view Sega should pay Steam for use of the activation service, the service provider would have to assume that a number of people registering to activate a title will not venture anywhere near their download store so they are just taking up space with no potential revenue.
    Which might lead some people to wonder, what's in it for Steam?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene Tyson View Post
    Didn't SI or someone from Sega say already that no money was exchanged between Steam?
    That was in response to someone saying that SEGA must be receiving money from Steam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pigfacemonkeyman View Post
    So far there is no mention of 'Steam activation through the internet' on the FM12 pre-order page over at SEGA!
    Please read Miles posts in this thread!

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    Quote Originally Posted by lukino99 View Post
    I'll ask again

    - Will people know at the time of purchase that the game can only be activated online?

    - If so, is it stated in big bold letters on the front of the cover or is it written in font 2 at the back?

    Thanks
    Miles already answered this in his big post on the subject a couple of pages back.

    The answer is yes they will because it's being placed on the front of the box (between where the PEGI and SI/SEGA logos are) that it requires activation online.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pigfacemonkeyman View Post
    Yeah, sesame seed buns are much better.
    Lets keep this thread sensible please

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyzer Soze View Post
    Please read Miles posts in this thread!
    Yeah, thanks for that.

    Do you mean this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Miles Jacobson View Post
    You've asked how we're letting people know about this. Well, apart from the forum thread, there was a mailshot on Friday to hundreds of thousands of our registered customers to let them know about it, as well as telling them about the blogs and the release date. Since then, pre-orders have gone up massively with our pre-order position at Amazon in the UK (for example) going up from the mid 20's into the top 10, peaking at 5 and currently at 7, which is way higher than we normally are at this time of year. There will also be, front of pack in between the SI logo and the age rating, in big letters, the words "requires internet connection to activate", which was insisted upon by me for us to be able to go ahead with this. I will be chasing SEGA first thing on Monday to ensure that all retailers who have packshots online switch to the final packshot, rather than the one they are currently using.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertie BG View Post
    Miles already answered this in his big post on the subject a couple of pages back.

    The answer is yes they will because it's being placed on the front of the box (between where the PEGI and SI/SEGA logos are) that it requires activation online.
    I think this should be expanded to say "Requires online activation via third party software".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertie BG View Post
    Miles already answered this in his big post on the subject a couple of pages back.

    The answer is yes they will because it's being placed on the front of the box (between where the PEGI and SI/SEGA logos are) that it requires activation online.
    Will it also show that Steam will have to be installed and must be running in order to play the game?


    EDIT: well done eddy.
    Last edited by pigfacemonkeyman; 19-09-2011 at 17:54. Reason: damn

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene Tyson View Post
    Didn't SI or someone from Sega say already that no money was exchanged between Steam?
    Yes they did, but (only surmising not fact) a deal could have been brokered with them. Now people know that this is going to happen, how many will have decided to just download it through Steam instead of getting a boxed copy, becuase I was toying with the idea. o it could increase sales through Steam so increasing Steam take, and a figure might be (again not fact) brokered on the amount of people that activate Boxed games. So money would transfer until after the release date.

    EDIT: This is pure fabrication on my part, please don't take it has gospel
    Last edited by The Welsh Lad; 19-09-2011 at 17:56.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pigfacemonkeyman View Post
    Which might lead some people to wonder, what's in it for Steam?
    Are you kidding! Can you imagine the amount of new costumers steam will get? Basically the whole FM community! It's a great deal for them. Of course not everybody will start buying games from steam, but even if a little minority start, it will be a great deal, dont you think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by afced7 View Post
    He has the choice not to buy it, same as he does with any product. They aren't forcing anything on anybody. Don't like it? Don't buy it.
    I understand that, but to continue with the food analogies it's like me buying say....... a Fry's Chocolate Cream (best ever) and the seller saying that in order to get my chocolate I must eat a spoon full of Marmite 1st.

    The problem is I really want FM2012 (Fry's Chocolate Cream)
    But I really don't want Steam (marmite)

    And the only place I can get the one I want, insist and are therefore forcing me (the customer) to have the one I don't.

    No more food analogies

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainPlanet View Post
    Can I ask what you reason is for not wanting Steam installed after activation?

    For the simple fact its not needed, takes up resources (little or not) and would allow middle ground for people who are so anti-steam they wont buy the game. that is the simple reason for it and if i could choose, id go with that option too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyzer Soze View Post
    Are you kidding! Can you imagine the amount of new costumers steam will get? Basically the whole FM community! It's a great deal for them. Of course not everybody will start buying games from steam, but even if a little minority start, it will be a great deal, dont you think?
    Yes, I was kidding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pigfacemonkeyman View Post
    Which might lead some people to wonder, what's in it for Steam?
    Steam get the benefit of traffic through their site. How many times have you gone into a shop to get something specific and bought something else as well while you're there?

    Edit: Just seen the above post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pigfacemonkeyman View Post
    Will it also show that Steam will have to be installed and must be running in order to play the game?
    I dont know, but i think it should! Or at least in the system requirements should refer to steam. (same way it refers to directx i believe).

    And i also think that the steam instalation file should be provided in the disk game.

    But i'm sure that pretty soon SI will provide a lot more information on this.

  87. #2287

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddymunster View Post
    Steam get the benefit of traffic through their site. How many times have you gone into a shop to get something specific and bought something else as well while you're there?
    I know this wasn't asked of me, but today i went into Tesco's to get a drink, ended up coming out of that with the drink and 4 pot noodles for £2. so it happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyzer Soze View Post
    I dont know, but i think it should! Or at least in the system requirements should refer to steam. (same way it refers to directx i believe).

    And i also think that the steam instalation file should be provided in the disk game.

    But i'm sure that pretty soon SI will provide a lot more information on this.
    i would imagine both points will be true, steam will def be mentioned, the steam logo will no doubt be on the packaging somewhere as well, and any steam game i have disk bought had the steam client built into it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertie BG View Post
    Miles already answered this in his big post on the subject a couple of pages back.

    The answer is yes they will because it's being placed on the front of the box (between where the PEGI and SI/SEGA logos are) that it requires activation online.
    Any answer from SEGA on the Germany/Steam issue?

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    I posted these questions this morning, but my post may have been lost in the noise.

    Quote Originally Posted by pigfacemonkeyman View Post
    Would someone from SI please tell me precisely what customer data SI and/or Sega will share with Steam?

    Would someone from SI please tell me, as Steam has to be running to play FM12 is it collecting any data in offline mode?

    When it becomes necessary to switch Steam to online mode, to download patches for example, what data will be collected by Steam themselves?

    Cheers
    xxx
    Any chance of a response?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pigfacemonkeyman View Post
    I posted these questions this morning, but my post may have been lost in the noise.



    Any chance of a response?
    You would be better asking steam as its their wares that will be doing the spying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edwingray View Post
    Any answer from SEGA on the Germany/Steam issue?
    I would imagine that it will take a few days, Sega will have to make sure the information is 100% before allowing any public comment on what countries would be listed as unavailable for FM to be activate via Steam.

    Imagine the uproar if a country was not listed but should have been.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pigfacemonkeyman View Post
    I posted these questions this morning, but my post may have been lost in the noise.



    Any chance of a response?
    ah google, it can be your friend,

    http://www.valvesoftware.com/privacy.html

    http://forums.steamgames.com/forums/...1657227&page=2

    basically yes steam collects when your offline, and yes it send this when you go back online.

  94. #2294
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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    ah google, it can be your friend,

    http://www.valvesoftware.com/privacy.html

    http://forums.steamgames.com/forums/...1657227&page=2

    basically yes steam collects when your offline, and yes it send this when you go back online.
    Thanks, google is my 'friend', and for your answer to my last two questions.

    However, I would like my first question to be answered by SI/Sega.
    Last edited by pigfacemonkeyman; 19-09-2011 at 18:49. Reason: typo

  95. #2295
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    I play FM on a PC which isn't connected to the internet, so I'm disappointed by this decision. I also still have the memory of activating FM2009 which took me 2 days.

    I have no experience of using Steam myself. I know someone who did try to activate FM via Steam once, who gave up after problems, and just installed it without using Steam.

    I also don't like the idea of Steam pointlessly running in the background whilst I play. I think SI/Sega are punishing the genuine consumers more than the pirates here.

  96. #2296
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    Can this game be played with the internet off?? Sorry I don't have time to read 24 pages!

  97. #2297
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamboJapp View Post
    Can this game be played with the internet off?? Sorry I don't have time to read 24 pages!
    yes it can, you just need the internet for the initial activation

  98. #2298
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamboJapp View Post
    Can this game be played with the internet off?? Sorry I don't have time to read 24 pages!
    Once you activate your game you can set up Steam to go into offline mode and can turn off your internet but you have to keep Steam Application Open

  99. #2299
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwingray View Post
    Any answer from SEGA on the Germany/Steam issue?
    this was posted by another user:

    Posted by lf_my_dream View Post
    I'm from Germany and had no problems activating my imported boxed copy of FM11 on steam last year, even though it's not available on our regional steam store. You can install from the disc as well, so steam only downloads the patches.
    hope that helps

  100. #2300
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    Cheers.....bad news in my opinion steam has brought me nothing but problems but so goes it.

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