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Thread: A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Brock View Post
    How have you been discarded? All we've said is that people have a choice to buy the game and run it through Steam or not buy it.
    What are you offering for the punters who have not got the abilty to play the game with Stream????......Nothing.....you are telling your paying public to like it or lump it.

    That is why I feel discarded after supporting the game for many years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris21 View Post
    I haven't posted since the first couple of pages but I still can't get my head around having to buy two copies for two people in my household! I understand that really myself playing via Steam and my brother using the disc isn't supposed to happen anyway as the game's license covers one person but its still ridiculous. I'd like to see an option similar to Norton Antivirus or something similar where you can use it on a certain amount of computers in your household? It won't happen though. End of the day we'll still end up buying two copies and will both be loving the game in a month or so and will probably forget about it but I still can't get my head around the customers being punished because of criminals.
    If you and your brother use same Steam account you can play at same time - at least one of you starts Steam in offline mode. No cracks needed...

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    Quote Originally Posted by iantevans View Post
    What are you offering for the punters who have not got the abilty to play the game with Stream????
    Anyone who has the ability to play FM12 has the ability to play the game with Steam, unless they don't have an Internet connection and can't find their way to somewhere or someone who does for a once-off activation process that takes less than thirty seconds.

    If these people exist, I could probably count them on both my hands.

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    Didn't one of the previous versions have a bug built in so when it was cracked it made you always lose penalty shoot outs?

    The best way to put off pirates is do something similar. Make press conferences 10 times as long and mandatory.

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    Saying you don't have internet connection on your pc is like saying you don't have a cell phone. Yeah, not everybody has it, but at this point of the history it's just because you either don't want it, or you just can't afford it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainPlanet View Post
    Didn't one of the previous versions have a bug built in so when it was cracked it made you always lose penalty shoot outs?

    The best way to put off pirates is do something similar. Make press conferences 10 times as long and mandatory.
    Even better a never win bug

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriss View Post
    If I boot Steam on it's own it loads in 3 second
    Yes that's great for Windows users. Unfortunately, Mac users won't be able to start Steam in 3 seconds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BayernMB View Post
    If you and your brother use same Steam account you can play at same time - at least one of you starts Steam in offline mode. No cracks needed...
    I would be wary giving out advice like that on a public forum, your right, it can be done, but im not sure of the legalities of it all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriss View Post
    I'm sure some are just venting their spleen just as happened on the Civ forums when they did it, I was no different when told I must wear a seat belt (in spite of the fact I did anyway) there's a natural aversion to being told you must do something.

    I hope they eventually overcome that and get the game they love and I also hope that Steam support them properly, because while it's been phenomally good for me I can imagine how enraging it would be if it wasn't so.
    Sadly misreading people, and assuming those who complain are just acting like children. People can do what they want, download steam if they wish, but SI have made a decision that does affect many people with an attitude of....oh well.

    The board has probably quietened because nothing more can be said. I would say many will just not buy the game.

    Just look at Milner's post above to show you how stupid the whole thing has become....yay SI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aaron70 View Post
    Sadly misreading people, and assuming those who complain are just acting like children. People can do what they want, download steam if they wish, but SI have made a decision that does affect many people with an attitude of....oh well.

    The board has probably quietened because nothing more can be said. I would say many will just not buy the game.

    Just look at Milner's post above to show you how stupid the whole thing has become....yay SI.
    Theres nothing stupid about it, just like when you buy the boxed version you are only suppose to play it on one computer at a time, this is no different really, despite what people think, using the same license more than once at the same time is illegal, doesnt matter if its a steam down load or boxed version. My point was advising anyone on how to overcome these restrictions could get you into trouble on a public forum.

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    Steam issues resolved now. Apparently, Steam was waiting for an update to Deus Ex that wasn't pushed out to me, so it stopped me from playing all the games in my library until it downloaded the patch.

    Annoying.

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    I have no Internet at home (I'm on at work currently) - so I guess there'll be no FM 2012 for me then

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    Quote Originally Posted by tom_numbers View Post
    FM will only be able to work if you install and run Steam, an application which must be running whenever you wish to play FM. Following that is almost 2000 posts of discussions as to why this decision has been taken.

    For:
    Aims to reduce piracy [disputed]
    Is a simple and reliable application [disputed]
    Will help with game updates [disputed]

    Against:
    Is an invasive piece of software [disputed]
    Is a pointless complication [disputed]
    Steam is unreliable, [disputed] with poor customer support for when things do go wrong [less disputed]
    Relies on an internet connection to activate
    Uses excessive computer power [disputed]

    There's probably more that I've missed, but that's the general gist. General arguments as to how SI/Sega could make this decision, thus screwing over their loyal customers who don't wish to use Steam.

    That covers a fair chunk of the discussion but you've missed off:

    Question marks about several parts of the Steam's Terms & Conditions of use.
    Question marks about the extent of your consumer rights as a UK user.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakers View Post
    Steam issues resolved now. Apparently, Steam was waiting for an update to Deus Ex that wasn't pushed out to me, so it stopped me from playing all the games in my library until it downloaded the patch.

    Annoying.
    Glad to hear its sorted Wakers

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    Has it been confirmed that Steam must be running after the initial activation? I know this wasn't the case in the past.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainPlanet View Post
    Has it been confirmed that Steam must be running after the initial activation? I know this wasn't the case in the past.
    Steam will have to be active any time you want to play FM, it always has to be on at the same time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aaron70 View Post
    Sadly misreading people, and assuming those who complain are just acting like children. People can do what they want, download steam if they wish, but SI have made a decision that does affect many people with an attitude of....oh well.

    The board has probably quietened because nothing more can be said. I would say many will just not buy the game.

    Just look at Milner's post above to show you how stupid the whole thing has become....yay SI.
    This is nothing against you personaly its jsut your the most recent.

    I am getting fed up at people saying it is Si's fault. If people actually read what Miles' said in some of his replies SEGA presented SI with options of how to activate FM and this was to most viable of those options. Unfourtunatly, we don't know what those options were, they were obviously more obtrusive to the customer has this was the least obtrusive.

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    If its a Steam only game, Steam has to be running whenever you want to play the game.

    If you close Steam while playing FM, it will warn you that doing so will also close FM.

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    I will as always buy the game. But I do resent being forced to use Steam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    Steam will have to be active any time you want to play FM, it always has to be on at the same time.
    I think that in first year that FM was on Steam it was possible to run it without Steam, but not since...

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    I would be wary giving out advice like that on a public forum, your right, it can be done, but im not sure of the legalities of it all.
    Thanks for the advice...but I'm sure it's "less illegal" than to use a no-cd crack

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    Quote Originally Posted by BayernMB View Post
    Thanks for the advice...but I'm sure it's "less illegal" than to use a no-cd crack
    in reality they are both as illegal as each other im afriad.

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    So the only people this actually affects, are those that don't have the internet at all and can't get access to the internet for 60 seconds. And those who have a computer old enough (and probably below the recommended specs) that running a single extra application whilst the game is running affects performance of the game.

    Why is there 20 pages of rage on this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakers View Post
    Steam issues resolved now. Apparently, Steam was waiting for an update to Deus Ex that wasn't pushed out to me, so it stopped me from playing all the games in my library until it downloaded the patch.

    Annoying.
    Something Steam could do easily is make auto update off the default instead of on, I'm sure they see it as good for people that they don't consciously have to set it to update but I'm pretty sure FM users would prefer it the other way around.

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    What do you do, if the ports for connecting to Steam are blocked ?

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    Steam price in the EU; 49.99

    I hope no one actually pays that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainPlanet View Post
    So the only people this actually affects, are those that don't have the internet at all and can't get access to the internet for 60 seconds. And those who have a computer old enough (and probably below the recommended specs) that running a single extra application whilst the game is running affects performance of the game.

    Why is there 20 pages of rage on this?
    No. It also affects most Mac users, as the Steam client for Mac is some kind of bloatware PC port that uses more resources than foreground apps like Google Chrome or Mail. It also affects those who constantly have problems with Steam - not connecting, crashes, won't let us play, etc - because if Steam isn't working, we can't play the game we bought.

    Here's the deal though - it shouldn't affect anyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mantralux View Post
    Here's the deal though - it shouldn't affect anyone.
    See it as a new minimum system spec. As well as a certain speed processor and certain graphics card, you now need the ability to run a piece of software at the same time.

    And I bet that affects less customers than if they put up the minimum CPU requirement by a couple of years.

    There is no reason why a PC or Mac with above the minimum system requirements can not run Steam at the same time as FM. And if there are problems there are lines of support to help with those problems. The customer impact is miniscule.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mantralux View Post
    No. It also affects most Mac users, as the Steam client for Mac is some kind of bloatware PC port that uses more resources than foreground apps like Google Chrome or Mail. It also affects those who constantly have problems with Steam - not connecting, crashes, won't let us play, etc - because if Steam isn't working, we can't play the game we bought.

    Here's the deal though - it shouldn't affect anyone.
    I thought the MAC steam client had been updated and now worked quite well? Have you used it recently?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainPlanet View Post
    See it as a new minimum system spec. As well as a certain speed processor and certain graphics card, you now need the ability to run a piece of software at the same time.

    And I bet that affects less customers than if they put up the minimum CPU requirement by a couple of years.

    There is no reason why a PC or Mac with above the minimum system requirements can not run Steam at the same time as FM. And if there are problems there are lines of support to help with those problems. The customer impact is miniscule.
    exactly, if people want to play FM, steam is now part of the system requirements, all these people who dont have internet access would also struggle if the directX needed updated, or if their graphics drivers were out of date and were causing an issue with FM, why is this treated any different to those situations?

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Welsh Lad View Post
    Even better a never win bug
    Much, MUCH, better than having to use Steam!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles Jacobson View Post
    It's bound to be. But with the exception of FM2009, every version of FM has been available to pirate before the retail release. During that few days, every year, retail see pre-orders being cancelled. Every year retail see pre-orders not being collected, even those with "free gifts" and where deposits have been paid. If it can be made that those people who legitimately buy our games this year get to play it before those that are pirating, that will be a good thing. If it can be that way for a few months, weeks, or even days, after that release, we do believe it will make a big difference.
    See, FM10 and FM11 weren't Steam-only. If they weren't leaked early, it's clearly not down to Steam.

    Steam really makes no difference in this regard. There's a risk of a leak whether you use Steam-only authentication or not. Civilization V was leaked early.

    If you are worried about leaks, then tighten up your controls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miles Jacobson View Post
    We are also not saying that we believe that if the game isn't cracked, all of those previous pirates will buy it. I do not believe that 1 pirated copy = 1 lost sale. The vast majority of people who pirate it won't pay the money for it, certainly not at launch. But I do believe that a proportion of them will do. And those extra sales, for however long the game can be protected, will lead to an increase in dev budgets, and therefore better, or more, games for all.
    You're unlikely to get better sales, simply because you've restricted the mechanism upon which users can start using your product. Steam can only reach a certain audience.

    If only one car dealer exists in the world, car manufacturers will make less money than if there were two car dealers in the world (ideally competing against each other, of course).

    Sure, your piracy rate might go down... But then again, that's meaningless if your sales figures don't increase to compensate for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miles Jacobson View Post
    Dave gave some stats out earlier which were slightly inaccurate. It's not the case that there are 3 people playing pirated copies of FM for every 1 legitimate customer - there are more than 4 people playing pirated copies of FM for every legitimate customer. And to the question on whether that takes into account people who have bought who play with CD cracks, it doesn't matter, as even if every single person who bought FM played with a CD crack, there would still be 3 people playing pirated versions for each 1 legitimate customer who has decided to install a 3rd party, illegal in the majority of countries, CD crack.
    There could be a million people pirating per legitimate customer for all you care... It's the legitimate customers that matter to your bottom line.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miles Jacobson View Post
    But the reality is that those being negative in the 17 pages are mainly the same people - about 50 in total.
    This is just a sample. There's more customers out there who are not going to buy, who aren't on these forums.

    You've also lost goodwill from many people with this decision, something you may never get back. You've potentially lost future sales of future iterations, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miles Jacobson View Post
    [...] were just as disappointed to be losing some long term customers as I am - but that doesn't change the decision that has been made, nor change my belief that from the options we had, it's the best one for all.
    ... Except for those poor former customers you've annoyed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miles Jacobson View Post
    There've been many posts about the problem being the installation of third party software on your machine, but that's just a part of life when it comes to PC games. Whether that be Direct X, graphics drivers, Windows/MacOS, font rendering technology, web browsing tech or other middleware, anytime you install a game, or application on your computer, you require third party software.
    None of this requires specific registration which is a potential avenue for leaked personal details and point-of-failure. DirectX, drivers, OS, fonts and Internet connectivity is miles more established than Steam will ever be - these bits of software in themselves are very "thin". None of this is an inconvenience - middleware restricts what we can do (i.e. DirectX can only do DirectX-like things) but having it vastly outweighs the advantage of not having it.

    I can think of advantage for "no Steam" against "Steam" for the customers, although I of course understand why established Steam users usually won't mind (barring the fact there's a loss of choice), so what is the outweighing advantage of this middleware known as Steam?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pigfacemonkeyman View Post
    Popider, any thought given to this?
    Regarding those who don't have an internet connection? My knowledge on this kind of demographic is sketchy at best so give me some slack if I'm ignorant in this regard. Where do you find people without access to the internet? It's tempting at first to say that every Football Manager incarnation will leave people behind - imagine a drastic leap forward in the 3d match engine... 90% would say "YES! this is what we've been asking for!" whereas 10% would say "wait a minute... so in other words I need a new/better computer with a better graphics card?" The problem with this argument is that it assumes people without internet have the choice to get it and 'should' have it "in this day and age".

    As for those without that choice, I don't know. I know that coverage is pretty comprehensive in the UK and the ideal scenario is that anyone, with enough want, should be able to get onto the internet even for half an hour. The same can't be said for the rural United States or perhaps other poorer countries, but again I'm not knowledgeable on this. I know the forces are an example being mooted here - all I can say is that I hope SI/sega have a plan for them (which in itself would be an epic PR boost should any bright spark have a solution). Otherwise, it's just a matter of convenience and that tipping point before value for money.

    I suppose I could make the point that a lot of modern games are practically unplayable without the internet anyway. The first patch in any game is almost vital - 2 PS3 games I played recently (FIFA11 and Bulletstorm) reached a point that I couldn't pass without a patch due to a bug. I'm sure not even Miles himself will claim that the unpatched FM12 will meet our expectations bugwise. I consider the patches essential and these need that same internet connection - so the people who you speak of are already left behind. The only difference being that you could overcome this with a USB key and co-operation with a helpful chum (who could in turn lend you the internet connection he used for the patch to install steam for the first time).

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Welsh Lad View Post
    Even better a never win bug
    That's not a bug, that's a feature of the final release.

    Pirates actually managed to win a league without their team suddenly losing all morale and ability half way through the season for no reason

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    Quote Originally Posted by x42bn6 View Post
    None of this requires specific registration which is a potential avenue for leaked personal details and point-of-failure. DirectX, drivers, OS, fonts and Internet connectivity is miles more established than Steam will ever be - these bits of software in themselves are very "thin". None of this is an inconvenience - middleware restricts what we can do (i.e. DirectX can only do DirectX-like things) but having it vastly outweighs the advantage of not having it.
    I would bet that more people have failures due to drivers than from using Steam. As far as point of failures go.

    And "personal" information taken from Steam is a very woolly argument that has little to no substance. You're more likely to lose personal information from visiting a java website than through being signed up to Steam. You can't even buy anything online without having to register any more, and given that the majority of people will probably FM online they have already had to submit their details over a hackable connection, using a hackable client to a hackable website who might well on the sly sell your details on to someone dodgy anyway. Registering for Steam (where you don't have to even use actual personal information) is hardly a noticeable increased risk.

    The rest of your post is telling SI what their sales figures will do, which I'm sure they're grateful for your input having clearly done zero research at all their end. ;)
    Last edited by CaptainPlanet; 19-09-2011 at 10:37.

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    You can't use directx and drivers as a counter argument to having third party apps. That just doesn't make sense. Drivers and Directx are an integral part of an operating system, without which, hardware and software simply can't run.

    It is not possible to make a modern game without making use of drivers or directx.

    It is possible to make a modern game without having Steam running in the background. There is no technical reason why Steam is needed. It does not manager hardware, it does not provide a graphical engine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakers View Post
    Did those other people who were having problem playing games in Steam last night have any success?

    I've just tried it again this morning (not that I'll have time now until the weekend again) and it still says all of my games are unavailable. I've just gone through all of the standard troubleshooting tips for each game and can't get any of them to work at this moment.

    Not pleased.
    Mine has just started downloading Portal now. It still wasn't working at 12:00am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakers View Post
    You can't use directx and drivers as a counter argument to having third party apps. That just doesn't make sense. Drivers and Directx are an integral part of an operating system, without which, hardware and software simply can't run.

    It is not possible to make a modern game without making use of drivers or directx.

    It is possible to make a modern game without having Steam running in the background. There is no technical reason why Steam is needed. It does not manager hardware, it does not provide a graphical engine.
    But there is, it provides DRM for FM12, without it FM12 will not work, just like directx or anything else, this is now part of the system requirements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    But there is, it provides DRM for FM12, without it FM12 will not work, just like directx or anything else, this is now part of the system requirements.
    Not just FM12 but more and more games all the time, Sega are actually quite late on this particular bandwagon.

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    Really disappointed by this, i have just cancelled my pre-order as i will not install steam on another one of my machines.

    Was really looking forward to the next release as well as i have just played my longest every save on FM2011. Oh well after god knows how many years i have been playing CM/FM i am going to have to give up playing, still the good news is that i will suddenly have a lot more time available to do other things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Welsh Lad View Post
    This is nothing against you personaly its jsut your the most recent.

    I am getting fed up at people saying it is Si's fault. If people actually read what Miles' said in some of his replies SEGA presented SI with options of how to activate FM and this was to most viable of those options. Unfourtunatly, we don't know what those options were, they were obviously more obtrusive to the customer has this was the least obtrusive.
    Agreed. It is both SI and Sega's fault. I just lump them together under SI.
    Why were they obviously more obtrusive??? I don't think decision was made with anyone in mind but Sega/SI/Steam...more money please. The peasants will have to accept it.

    The part that is annoying people is that the justification for doing this is weak. The reason it is being done is because there is a greater profit margin (fine but don't tell porky pies about piracy).
    Last edited by aaron70; 19-09-2011 at 10:49.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriss View Post
    Not just FM12 but more and more games all the time, Sega are actually quite late on this particular bandwagon.
    yeah other compaines like Valve have been doing this for a long time now, i dont think their sales figues have suffered too much.
    This will be an industry standard in a few years, maybe not steam exactly, but definitely similar 3rd party programmes.

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    Well I, for one, agree with all the naysayers - why should we be forced to keep STEAM on our computers in order to play FM2012? It's infringing on my BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS to have to install a really horribly intrusive bit of software that totally slows my computer down and makes FM take a FEW SECONDS longer to load!!!

    But why stop there? Let's RISE UP and conquer the evil oppression of SI that has gone on too long!

    For years now, we have been forced to buy an awful, electricity hogging COMPUTER in order to play Football Manager! This is a grave injustice - why should I SPEND upwards of £1000 to play a £30 piece of software?! Join me, friends, and END THIS NOW!!!

    FM2012 should run natively in PLANET EARTH!! I want to invert the pyramid in the soil of the forest, rage quit and replay the match in the oceans, and send SI hate mail in the skies because PASTORE WON'T SIGN FOR MAN UTD!!!

    Let us shake off the shackles that the EVIL EMPIRE has placed upon us, and take back FM2012 FOR THE PEOPLE!!!

    (P.S. I totally agree with Miles, and I don't see why people are getting their knickers in such a twist about this. Either you care about having to use Steam or you don't. If you don't, fine. If you do, either take your tinfoil hat off and suck it up, or don't buy the game. Either way, fine.)

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    I applaud SI for taking steps in countering piracy. Steam is definitely a way to do it. I've read some claims that Steam can disconnect you from the game world and make your games unavailable. But I'm not really concerned about that.

    I'll be buying the disc of the game and installing it, and authenticating through Steam.

    I've read more and more about Steam in the last few days, and it's parent company Valve. And I'm convinced more than ever that this is the right way to go.


    It's now a system requirement to have Steam and an internet connection to authenticate the copy of FM12. And I have no issues with that at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by molemenacer View Post
    Really disappointed by this, i have just cancelled my pre-order as i will not install steam on another one of my machines.

    Was really looking forward to the next release as well as i have just played my longest every save on FM2011. Oh well after god knows how many years i have been playing CM/FM i am going to have to give up playing, still the good news is that i will suddenly have a lot more time available to do other things.
    Good for you - its good to see the good in bad situations

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    x42bn6, you seem to be the one talking the most sense in opposition to the Steam Registration. I've got something I'd like to ask...

    Quote Originally Posted by x42bn6 View Post
    There could be a million people pirating per legitimate customer for all you care... It's the legitimate customers that matter to your bottom line.
    The example I used earlier was that 5 years ago the norm was to download music for free (Napster/Kazaa/etc.) but now the norm is to pay for music through iTunes etc. What has caused this shift? Surely it's partly because of a reminder to those who only pirated "because it was easy" or "because I don't see anyone putting me off" or "I don't see anyone getting in trouble for this" that Piracy is being watched. I'm not suggesting Steam is going to miraculously jail a gaggle of hackers, I'm just saying surely it will remind those borderline piraters that "the makers haven't forgotten about you."

    Quote Originally Posted by aaron70 View Post
    Agreed. It is both SI and Sega's fault. I just lump them together under SI.
    Why were they obviously more obtrusive??? I don't think decision was made with anyone in mind but Sega/SI/Steam...more money please. The peasants will have to accept it.
    Are the peasants you refer to here the people who get it for free? Call me a ruthless capitalist, but I'm pretty sure if a business provides a service it deserves to get paid. If they don't get paid, everyone in this forum suffers. That's why these measures have to be taken I suppose.

    Quote Originally Posted by molemenacer View Post
    Really disappointed by this, i have just cancelled my pre-order as i will not install steam on another one of my machines.

    Was really looking forward to the next release as well as i have just played my longest every save on FM2011. Oh well after god knows how many years i have been playing CM/FM i am going to have to give up playing, still the good news is that i will suddenly have a lot more time available to do other things.
    Is that really all that it takes to push you over the edge of not buying this?

    Quote Originally Posted by metal_guitarist View Post
    Mine has just started downloading Portal now. It still wasn't working at 12:00am
    On the other hand, if this kind of thing stops me playing my beloved FM regularly, I'll be switching sides pretty damn swiftly in this argument.
    Last edited by Popider; 19-09-2011 at 10:59.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SnakeXe View Post
    Well I, for one, agree with all the naysayers - why should we be forced to keep STEAM on our computers in order to play FM2012? It's infringing on my BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS to have to install a really horribly intrusive bit of software that totally slows my computer down and makes FM take a FEW SECONDS longer to load!!!

    But why stop there? Let's RISE UP and conquer the evil oppression of SI that has gone on too long!

    For years now, we have been forced to buy an awful, electricity hogging COMPUTER in order to play Football Manager! This is a grave injustice - why should I SPEND upwards of £1000 to play a £30 piece of software?! Join me, friends, and END THIS NOW!!!

    FM2012 should run natively in PLANET EARTH!! I want to invert the pyramid in the soil of the forest, rage quit and replay the match in the oceans, and send SI hate mail in the skies because PASTORE WON'T SIGN FOR MAN UTD!!!

    Let us shake off the shackles that the EVIL EMPIRE has placed upon us, and take back FM2012 FOR THE PEOPLE!!!

    (P.S. I totally agree with Miles, and I don't see why people are getting their knickers in such a twist about this. Either you care about having to use Steam or you don't. If you don't, fine. If you do, either take your tinfoil hat off and suck it up, or don't buy the game. Either way, fine.)
    While I'm not on your side, have to say I love the sarcasm involved here. Whose side am I on, well I'm sitting on the fence, such a lost art!

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    Accepting corporate lies as the truth. That is what we are getting upset. Don't make up stories about "this is to stop pirates, "this is in the consumers best interest". This is too make more money. I get tired of companies lying through their teeth and expected better of SI.

    People can mock and say "get over it", "this is normal", "families shouldn't be able to play a game together", and if this is how the majority feels, than no wonder we are always gets ****ed up the ass by these companies.

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    This problem with the Steam servers being 'unavailable' and refusing to let you play your games, is this going to affect access to the editor as well? Because that could cause some huge problems for the likes of myself, wally and TheMinsterman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Popider View Post
    Are the peasants you refer to here the people who get it for free? Call me a ruthless capitalist, but I'm pretty sure if a business provides a service it deserves to get paid. If they don't get paid, everyone in this forum suffers. That's why these measures have to be taken I suppose.
    The peasants being the people who bought the game for years. They now just have to accept whatever so they can play the game....like it or lump it. Not sure how peasants would be equal to the pirates?

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    yeah other compaines like Valve have been doing this for a long time now, i dont think their sales figues have suffered too much.
    This will be an industry standard in a few years, maybe not steam exactly, but definitely similar 3rd party programmes.
    There has been similar public reaction every time something like this has happened. And it continues to be done and the sales figures aren't affected. The outrage at the activation for FM09 was huge, Spore (and EA in general) had some horrendous PR from implementing it. And SWTOR is getting rage because of EA's origin software.

    Come to think of it, when has something like this happened and there hasn't been a backlash of forum rage? And how many times have companies introduced a DRM method that has significantly affected sales?

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    On the day of release steam will be a shambles mark my words.

    Another that has jumped ship i'm afraid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainPlanet View Post
    And SWTOR is getting rage because of EA's origin software.
    Do explain please

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    We're not getting anything up the ass, we are being asked to download a FREE 3rd party program, not pay for anything, you dont need to use any of your real personal details, sign up for a made up hotmail account and your fine, honestly, calm down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by metal_guitarist View Post
    This problem with the Steam servers being 'unavailable' and refusing to let you play your games, is this going to affect access to the editor as well? Because that could cause some huge problems for the likes of myself, wally and TheMinsterman.
    The editor is not run through steam, it is completely separate so it will never affect you

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    Quote Originally Posted by metal_guitarist View Post
    Do explain please
    If you bought the game through EA Online via their Origin Store you have to install the Origin software to download it through.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aaron70 View Post
    The peasants being the people who bought the game for years. They now just have to accept whatever so they can play the game....like it or lump it. Not sure how peasants would be equal to the pirates?
    The 'peasants' have always paid for security. The difference between the price in Game, for example, and amazon can be as much as £10-20. This is because online stores don't have overheads which include staffing and, probably more prominently, premises. These premises tend to be quite heavily secured at night and insured against thefts. All of this costs more money than the current warehouse-and-post solution of online stores. I'd put it to you that with Steam adding nothing to the cost, the peasants are doing quite well out of the online gaming industry these days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainPlanet View Post
    There has been similar public reaction every time something like this has happened. And it continues to be done and the sales figures aren't affected. The outrage at the activation for FM09 was huge, Spore (and EA in general) had some horrendous PR from implementing it. And SWTOR is getting rage because of EA's origin software.

    Come to think of it, when has something like this happened and there hasn't been a backlash of forum rage? And how many times have companies introduced a DRM method that has significantly affected sales?
    exactly, there will be huge rage the day SI switch to 64bit as well, any change that prevents or restricts certain people will be met with huge backlash, SI are not silly, they knew this thread would be exactly like this, but they will be confident that in a few months their decision will be vindicated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by metal_guitarist View Post
    This problem with the Steam servers being 'unavailable' and refusing to let you play your games, is this going to affect access to the editor as well? Because that could cause some huge problems for the likes of myself, wally and TheMinsterman.
    Steam servers have had like 0.01% downtime in the last 5 years. And even then you only need the server up when you authenticate the game, it doesn't need to be up constantly whilst you're playing the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SnakeXe View Post
    Well I, for one, agree with all the naysayers - why should we be forced to keep STEAM on our computers in order to play FM2012? It's infringing on my BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS to have to install a really horribly intrusive bit of software that totally slows my computer down and makes FM take a FEW SECONDS longer to load!!!

    But why stop there? Let's RISE UP and conquer the evil oppression of SI that has gone on too long!

    For years now, we have been forced to buy an awful, electricity hogging COMPUTER in order to play Football Manager! This is a grave injustice - why should I SPEND upwards of £1000 to play a £30 piece of software?! Join me, friends, and END THIS NOW!!!

    FM2012 should run natively in PLANET EARTH!! I want to invert the pyramid in the soil of the forest, rage quit and replay the match in the oceans, and send SI hate mail in the skies because PASTORE WON'T SIGN FOR MAN UTD!!!

    Let us shake off the shackles that the EVIL EMPIRE has placed upon us, and take back FM2012 FOR THE PEOPLE!!!

    (P.S. I totally agree with Miles, and I don't see why people are getting their knickers in such a twist about this. Either you care about having to use Steam or you don't. If you don't, fine. If you do, either take your tinfoil hat off and suck it up, or don't buy the game. Either way, fine.)
    Read the first few lines and came close to venting my spleen. Read the rest and now I'm in stitches, good post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    The editor is not run through steam, it is completely separate so it will never affect you
    Brilliant, thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainPlanet View Post
    If you bought the game through EA Online via their Origin Store you have to install the Origin software to download it through.
    Well I plan on buying it boxed. Am I still going to have to use Origin?

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    Agreed. It is both SI and Sega's fault. I just lump them together under SI.
    Why were they obviously more obtrusive??? I don't think decision was made with anyone in mind but Sega/SI/Steam...more money please. The peasants will have to accept it.
    If it was all about money, why are we not being charged for using steam. If you don't buy anything from steam they will make no money from, if anything SEGA would have to pay Steam for the use to allow everyone to activate through Steam. SAGE will get the same amount of money off me and others even if we didn't have activate it. So where does you logic 'more money please' come into the equation.

    Everything moves on, even analog radio signals are going to be faded out and everyone will have to get a DAB radio or similar, Video started to fade out people had to buy DVD players, The Gaming industry moving toward online activations people have to get access to the interent. Only a few years ago Managers didn't need qualifications to coach but now they do, which they have to resit every so often which cost them more money every time because prices increases. DO you think they just said no and and didn't bother. If you need to do any business with barclays you have to have a card reader even in your house, everytime you log in you have to entre a code to autherise that it is you.

    We could be doing that with Steam but no we just install it and it sits there, ok there maybe problems with losing connection, but efectively it just sitting there. If people want to get the internet they have to really on the provider keeping them supplied. We have to really on Steam to let us play FM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David - SEGA View Post
    This is a one-time only activation
    Does this mean the game doesn't need to authenticate each time the game is started, only the first time after installation?

    In which case, Steam servers being down at any time in the future is a complete non-issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by metal_guitarist View Post
    Well I plan on buying it boxed. Am I still going to have to use Origin?
    Nope

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    I really can't beleive this.

    For the first time ever I'm seriously considering not bothering this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by metal_guitarist View Post
    This problem with the Steam servers being 'unavailable' and refusing to let you play your games, is this going to affect access to the editor as well? Because that could cause some huge problems for the likes of myself, wally and TheMinsterman.

    Why don't people understand this? You activate the game through Steam. It's a one time activation. Once the game is installed, you just have to have Steam running, switch it to Offline mode.

    I don't really see an issue with "Steam servers being 'unavailable'". After the 1 time activation you don't need to be connected to the Steam servers at all to play the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    We're not getting anything up the ass, we are being asked to download a FREE 3rd party program, not pay for anything, you dont need to use any of your real personal details, sign up for a made up hotmail account and your fine, honestly, calm down.
    Milner. I do understand this. I am saying not everybody will be able to do this. My main point is that the reason giving for doing this is either a lie or a shocking display of intelligence. The reasons given are unfounded. This is solely being done to make more money. So don't lie to people with half a brain. Sega/SI are just doing what all these companies do; smile and say we love you, whilst doing whatever to get your dollar, even to the point of lying outright. Why did they announce this after thousands of pre sales? Tired off it, so FM11 will do me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainPlanet View Post
    Does this mean the game doesn't need to authenticate each time the game is started, only the first time after installation?

    In which case, Steam servers being down at any time in the future is a complete non-issue.



    Nope
    Steam authenticates the game everytime you start it, but you only need to activate the game online once, so technically speaking you activate the game and the steam servers then become irrelevant, you set in offline mode and you will never need to connect to them again.

    For what its worth ive now had my offline mode on for 5 days, not had any issues at all, fingers crossed it stays this way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Welsh Lad View Post
    This is nothing against you personaly its jsut your the most recent.

    I am getting fed up at people saying it is Si's fault. If people actually read what Miles' said in some of his replies SEGA presented SI with options of how to activate FM and this was to most viable of those options. Unfourtunatly, we don't know what those options were, they were obviously more obtrusive to the customer has this was the least obtrusive.
    We don't need to know those options. What SI apparently didn't do was provide an alternative, or take a stance against the 'options' they were forced to 'choose' from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aaron70 View Post
    Accepting corporate lies as the truth. That is what we are getting upset. Don't make up stories about "this is to stop pirates, "this is in the consumers best interest". This is too make more money. I get tired of companies lying through their teeth and expected better of SI.

    People can mock and say "get over it", "this is normal", "families shouldn't be able to play a game together", and if this is how the majority feels, than no wonder we are always gets ****ed up the ass by these companies.
    Families can play the game together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainPlanet View Post
    Nope
    Good to hear

    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene Tyson View Post
    Why don't people understand this? You activate the game through Steam. It's a one time activation. Once the game is installed, you just have to have Steam running, switch it to Offline mode.

    I don't really see an issue with "Steam servers being 'unavailable'". After the 1 time activation you don't need to be connected to the Steam servers at all to play the game.
    Well as Wakers pointed out last night, he wasn't able to access anything in his library at all due to 'Steam servers unavailable' popping up all the time, and I don't want that crap. I just want to play the bloody game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene Tyson View Post
    Why don't people understand this? You activate the game through Steam. It's a one time activation. Once the game is installed, you just have to have Steam running, switch it to Offline mode.

    I don't really see an issue with "Steam servers being 'unavailable'". After the 1 time activation you don't need to be connected to the Steam servers at all to play the game.
    Why don't you understand that "offline" mode is temperamental and doesn't always work?

    Twice this year I have needed to use offline mode and twice this year it has failed to work.

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    well, I wait to be convinced this is a good move.

    I will try it though before totally brushing it off, but bet you when I get the game, want to activate and play, the steam site will down due thousands of people trying to register their games and their site crashes. Hope this offline works out, as I hate any kind of need to go on-line for gaming.

    remember we've had to register to steam for demos, so really hope activating the actual game is a straight forward as it's being made to sound.

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    Quote Originally Posted by metal_guitarist View Post
    Well as Wakers pointed out last night, he wasn't able to access anything in his library at all due to 'Steam servers unavailable' popping up all the time, and I don't want that crap. I just want to play the bloody game.
    You won't have that issue with FM12.
    1. The game will be installed.
    2. You activate it once.
    3. Once that is done, switch Steam to offline mode.


    It won't need to access Steam servers again. Once you are logged in under the account that you registered with Steam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aaron70 View Post
    Milner. I do understand this. I am saying not everybody will be able to do this. My main point is that the reason giving for doing this is either a lie or a shocking display of intelligence. The reasons given are unfounded. This is solely being done to make more money. So don't lie to people with half a brain. Sega/SI are just doing what all these companies do; smile and say we love you, whilst doing whatever to get your dollar, even to the point of lying outright. Why did they announce this after thousands of pre sales? Tired off it, so FM11 will do me.
    ]

    Unfounded? I guess you are privy to the figures SI has then? Dont listen to everything XB42 says, he makes good points but he is not always right. The switch to steam does not guarentee more money, they hope it will, but as you can see from this thread it runs the risk of backfiring, so that point is completely moot. You are also insulting a lot of people with your post, honestly calm down a bit, maybe take a break from this forum and situation for a few days and think about it rationally, no one is screwing you, no one is putting a gun to your head, and no one is taking the **** out of you, its simply a decision made by a compay to help protect their product, remember us fans dont own FM, we are customers, nothing more, if you dont like it dont buy their product, but please stop with this "SI are screwing the loyal customers" nonsense. Loyal customers buy the game no matter what, steam or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pigfacemonkeyman View Post
    We don't need to know those options. What SI apparently didn't do was provide an alternative, or take a stance against the 'options' they were forced to 'choose' from.
    None of use were in the meeting, SI could have given alternatives and SEGA batted them down, If you in a meetig with your boss and he asks you for ideas and opinions and still picks his own, you may not be happy but you still got to sing from the same hymn sheet. If you didn't agree with the boss are you going to turn around and say fine if you want it that way I'm off, and walk out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pigfacemonkeyman View Post
    We don't need to know those options. What SI apparently didn't do was provide an alternative, or take a stance against the 'options' they were forced to 'choose' from.
    Do you just ignore any post that doesnt back up your point??
    Miles said they looked at every single possible solution and this was the best one they were left with, they went through every alternative before settling on steam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Welsh Lad View Post
    None of use were in the meeting, SI could have given alternatives and SEGA batted them down, If you in a meetig with your boss and he asks you for ideas and opinions and still picks his own, you may not be happy but you still got to sing from the same hymn sheet. If you didn't agree with the boss are you going to turn around and say fine if you want it that way I'm off, and walk out.
    Would have loved that thread from SI.

    "Hi guys, we didn't want to put in DRM but we've been told by Sega to do so. Sorry everyone we tried to fight them on this but they wouldn't listen!"

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    Gbr

    TBH I am not the biggest fan of steam, I have previously purchased games and had to install via steam which at the time seemed ok, however i did find steam slowed my machine quite considerably.

    I have since changed to a MBP and a friend of mine thinks steam makes no difference to the running speed on his machine.

    I am not against anti piracy, in fact i think it is a good idea, but why force people to use software they do not want to use. There seems to be a big anti-steam vibe going on at the moment and could mean a lot of fans are going to walk away from the game they love.

    I can see many long term fans not buying the game this year!

    so what is worse, lose a massive section of the fan base, where the majority buy the game legitimately or stop a handful of pirates?

    if it was my company i would want to keep my loyal fans who repeatedly by the game year after year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    But there is, it provides DRM for FM12, without it FM12 will not work, just like directx or anything else, this is now part of the system requirements.
    Oh come on, that's not the same. A single method of DRM is not required for a game to work - you can easily make a game without any DRM, but you can't easily make a game without using directx, and its impossible to make one that doesn't require the help of drivers.

    That was my point and you both know it.

    I'm getting quite sick of this particular method of purposefully mis-reading or misinterpreting someone's point. It's pathetic. That's all anyone has been able to do throughout the entire thread when someone makes a valid point, and it comes from moderators (more than one) too.

    If you can't bother to think of a reasonable argument, then just don't post anything, instead of trying to argue a point in someone's post that they never made in the first case.
    Last edited by Wakers; 19-09-2011 at 11:25.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cougar2010 View Post
    Why don't you understand that "offline" mode is temperamental and doesn't always work?
    People seem to be confusing what actually happens and how Steam is involved.

    It seems to me that people think they have to play FM12 through steam and that their games will be stored online and not installed or saved to their computer.


    That is not the case. All you have to do is have Steam running and Activate the game once online.


    You still need Steam running and logged in under the user account, but you don't need it to be online, you can switch it to offline mode.


    There are three inconveniences here
    1. Install Steam
    2. Activate game through Steam
    3. Have Steam always running when playing FM12


    The first one seems to be bugging people immensely. I agree that installing a 3rd party software to play a game is annoying. But they are trying to get people to stop pirating, which I don't think this method will work, but that's neither here nor there.

    The second one - people are confusing Activating through Steam with always having to be connected to the Steam Servers. You don't have be connected after you've Activated the game.

    And the last one - you have to have Steam running when you play FM12 - and you can play it in Offline Mode. If you aren't planning to play FM12 then you can quit out of Steam and use your computer for other things. If you want to play FM12 then you need to log into Steam.



    People are confusing the issue with Steam and how it works. And blowing it way out of proportion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aaron70 View Post
    Accepting corporate lies as the truth. That is what we are getting upset. Don't make up stories about "this is to stop pirates, "this is in the consumers best interest". This is too make more money. I get tired of companies lying through their teeth and expected better of SI.

    People can mock and say "get over it", "this is normal", "families shouldn't be able to play a game together", and if this is how the majority feels, than no wonder we are always gets ****ed up the ass by these companies.
    Of course this is to make more money, by forcing people to keep to the EULA agreement. It may also have the effect of forcing a few people who play a pirated copy to buy the game legally. But some of the extra money make will be re-invested back into the game by hiring more staff and buying more licenses.

    I see no reason to be upset unless I was one of those who were breaking the EULA agreement by playing a copy of the game registered with Steam and giving the CD to some one else to play. They really can't have a complaint about this decision, they've been breaking the law for years with older versions of the game and it's about time that there were some repercussions of that.


    IMO Steam is a piece of useless crap and I hate using it, but if it lets me play FM12 then I'll put up with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Welsh Lad View Post
    If it was all about money, why are we not being charged for using steam. If you don't buy anything from steam they will make no money from, if anything SEGA would have to pay Steam for the use to allow everyone to activate through Steam.
    Eh no, SEGA will without a doubt have gotten a pretty good deal from Valve for the exclusive rights to FM. They don't have to charge money for us using Steam, as they make plenty of cash from other entry points. For example, they have ad banners plastered all over the client.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cougar2010 View Post
    Why don't you understand that "offline" mode is temperamental and doesn't always work?

    Twice this year I have needed to use offline mode and twice this year it has failed to work.
    If you've followed the instructions for setting it up in the Steam help pages and it still fails it's an error, have you reported it to Steam?

    I just read them for the first time and it seems there is the possibility for a fail if you haven't followed that procedure.

    I don't say that's the cause of your issue, just that it might be as I certainly wasn't aware of the exact requirement even though I haven't had an issue.

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    Don't respond to Eugene. You can tell him something in simple English in one sentence and he will still reply to it as if you've said something else entirely, like he just did there.

    Eugene - Steam offline mode is not 100% reliable, that was the point he made.

    Are you gonna start banging on about how I said it was a major security risk again? Even though the whole forum could see that that was nothing like the point I was making?

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    Some people really need to get a grip.

    It's just a tiny program that runs in the background. That's all it is. It doesn't affect anything, it doesn't cause any problems, it doesn't make the game run any worse. It's just a small program that stops people from stealing the game.

    It's nothing major.

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    Oh...goodness...I am not even angry whilst typing. I have thought about this for three days. I have worked in fields that have had issues with piracy. That is enough to know what is being said is at best misleading. We all know there will be a pirated version within a week or two.

    The only people I am insulting is Sega/SI who I feel are insulting me. I am surely not insulting you? In fact, as I said, I understand where you are coming from. However,I still do not see anything to suggest that Sega/SI are aiming to make life easier for their consumers here. They are therefore either lying or are idiots.

    I agree as well that perhaps this will backfire. If it does, it is solely down to their choices and behaviour. Steam fine, but surely it would have been logical to have another option.
    "Loyal customers buy the game no matter what, steam or not" - even if they are getting screwed...this is my whole point and what Sega/SI are planning on.

    I will step back from this thread as it appears I am offending others who do not work for Sega/SI which is not my intention. Perhaps my wording is too strong, but I am tired of companies basically treating customers with contempt. It makes me sad rather than angry after playing this series of games for so many years. No consultation, no warning, than misleading statements to top it off.
    Last edited by aaron70; 19-09-2011 at 11:31.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakers View Post
    Oh come on, that's not the same. A single method of DRM is not required for a game to work - you can easily make a game without any DRM, but you can't easily make a game without using directx, and its impossible to make one that doesn't require the help of drivers.

    That was my point and you both know it.

    I'm getting quite sick of this particular method of purposefully mis-reading or misinterpreting someone's point. It's pathetic. That's all anyone has been able to do throughout the entire thread when someone makes a valid point, and it comes from moderators (more than one) too.

    If you can't bother to think of a reasonable argument, then just don't post anything, instead of trying to argue a point in someone's post that they never made in the first case.
    My point is still valid, now steam is a system requirement, technically it is needed as it is the chosen form of DRM, your right it could be made with others, but its not. Yes they can make a game without DRM, but we both know its not viable, and likely to put them out of business. There is no need to get so worked up over my post, it was valid and in no way ment to to have a go at you or anything, it is a reasonable point as far as im concerned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene Tyson View Post
    You won't have that issue with FM12.
    1. The game will be installed.
    2. You activate it once.
    3. Once that is done, switch Steam to offline mode.


    It won't need to access Steam servers again. Once you are logged in under the account that you registered with Steam.
    Then I very much hope so, but as has been proved, offline mode isn't reliable.

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    in an ideal world we would have the chance to uninstall steam after activation! Unfortunately this is not the case, and we will have to continue with steam installed, even though he no longer good for anything!

    Unfortunately these are the rules of business, and we have to understand steam corporation. After all they are doing the best for their business.

    For my part, as I said at the beginning, i rather had the chance to remove steam after installation, I think it would be a "cleaner" process for all. It is not the case ... okay!

    It's FM, it's the only game i play, it's the only game i want to play!

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    Quote Originally Posted by David - SEGA View Post
    Hi, Yes Steam will need to remain installed. However this offers great benefits such as top quality download speeds, automatic updates & achievements to track you progress
    Quote Originally Posted by pigfacemonkeyman View Post
    But I don't want those 'great benefits'.
    My thoughts exactly pigface.

    David, I just had to comment as soon as I read your post, why are you trying to spruik benefits that are absolutely pish?

    Really, achievements in FM, what were they before?....lets see. Win a game. Do not concede in a game. Really pointless......and in any case this is just for little kids under 12 to brag about to their mates who play it nothing more.

    Secondly, I would rather download an update myself, rather than having steam do it automatically for me, it is really annoying when you want to start up the game and there is an update waiting, as well as the fact you may not want the update or you want to uninstall it. This in turn leads to wasted usage for people on limited bandwidth also.

    Lastly, top quality download speeds??? Wow, I can get those from any decent server

    Other than that I have no issue with activating through STEAM to combat piracy, but really David, great marketing gimmick!
    Last edited by AliasPaul; 19-09-2011 at 11:33.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mantralux View Post
    Eh no, SEGA will without a doubt have gotten a pretty good deal from Valve for the exclusive rights to FM. They don't have to charge money for us using Steam, as they make plenty of cash from other entry points. For example, they have ad banners plastered all over the client.
    FM isnt exclusive to steam at all, you just need it to activate the game, exclusive would have ment the game had to bought through steam.

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    Also the point that Steam apparently (I haven't seen this personally, because I'm never in offline mode for so long) try and get online if you run it in offline mode for a certain amount of time (believed to be around 30 days or so)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakers View Post
    Don't respond to Eugene. You can tell him something in simple English in one sentence and he will still reply to it as if you've said something else entirely, like he just did there.

    Eugene - Steam offline mode is not 100% reliable, that was the point he made.

    Are you gonna start banging on about how I said it was a major security risk again? Even though the whole forum could see that that was nothing like the point I was making?
    You were banging on about "people should be aware of security issues" which was a good point, but you made it seem like that Steam had serious security issues with your wording, which in turn causes misinformation about the product. It was you that twisted your own words, not me.


    And my point is about how people are confusing how Steam works.


    I'm not aware of any offline issues with Steam. How is it unreliable for FM12? I don't see how it can be? Once it's activated it logged with Steam, so once it's running the game should load fine.


    We'll just have to see when FM12 comes out. I suspect there'll be a few people with issues with Steam. But nothing significant or that can't be fixed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    My point is still valid, now steam is a system requirement, technically it is needed as it is the chosen form of DRM, your right it could be made with others, but its not. Yes they can make a game without DRM, but we both know its not viable, and likely to put them out of business. There is no need to get so worked up over my post, it was valid and in no way ment to to have a go at you or anything, it is a reasonable point as far as im concerned.
    You honestly think FM hasn't been turning a major profit the last few years? They could release the game without any DRM and still make money. Probably not enough for Sega's liking (seeing as they bleed money from every possible outlet), but if the best selling game in the UK and most of Europe each year doesn't make a profit then there's some horrible mis-management going on somewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by metal_guitarist View Post
    Then I very much hope so, but as has been proved, offline mode isn't reliable.
    Some people have had problems with it, some haven't ever, that's not proof of anything other than that Steam need to address any proven problems with the help of the people having those problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene Tyson View Post
    You were banging on about "people should be aware of security issues" which was a good point, but you made it seem like that Steam had serious security issues with your wording, which in turn causes misinformation about the product. It was you that twisted your own words, not me.


    And my point is about how people are confusing how Steam works.


    I'm not aware of any offline issues with Steam. How is it unreliable for FM12? I don't see how it can be? Once it's activated it logged with Steam, so once it's running the game should load fine.


    We'll just have to see when FM12 comes out. I suspect there'll be a few people with issues with Steam. But nothing significant or that can't be fixed.
    Absolute bollocks. Stop saying that. That is how you chose to read it, despite me saying about 20 times, in the clearest way possible that it is an issue with any online service and not just Steam.

    Of course, you won't take that in either.

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    Games I currently play and 3rd party applications I have to use or sites I have to register on to play the game:

    Company of Heroes - Relic Online Account and Software that has to run whilst the game is
    Battlefield: Bad Company 2 - Registered Account
    Sins of a Solar Empire - Stardock Impulse Account and Software that has to run whilst the game is
    Any MMO - Registered full account details online and Launcher Software that has to run whilst the game is
    The Sims 3 (for the missus obviously) - Registered account and launcher software that has to run whilst the game is

    As well as countless other smaller games that are only available through Steam, Impulse, Origin or bought through Direct2Drive and similar sites.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    The editor is not run through steam, it is completely separate so it will never affect you
    Would you please tell me how you know this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by metal_guitarist View Post
    Then I very much hope so, but as has been proved, offline mode isn't reliable.
    Unfortunately some people will have issues with Steam. But hopefully those issues can be resolved. The only way to make Steam aware of them is to go their forums/support pages and figure out a solution.


    Similarly, if for example, if SI didn't use Steam at all, then some people would have issues installing and playing FM12. They did for FM11 and FM10 and FM09 and FM08 and FM07 and etc.


    Some people's computers work differently.

    This is the first time they're using Online Activation through Steam. And I for one will give them a chance and I think it will work out great.


    If it doesn't then SI, Sega and Steam will have a lot to answer for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakers View Post
    You honestly think FM hasn't been turning a major profit the last few years? They could release the game without any DRM and still make money. Probably not enough for Sega's liking (seeing as they bleed money from every possible outlet), but if the best selling game in the UK and most of Europe each year doesn't make a profit then there's some horrible mis-management going on somewhere.
    Come on, release a game without protection? Not even music CD's are released without some sort of protection. Sadly in the world we live it is needed, it may not stop piracy, but it does put less knowledgeable people off, removing that would be suicide.

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