If these people exist, I could probably count them on both my hands.
Didn't one of the previous versions have a bug built in so when it was cracked it made you always lose penalty shoot outs?
The best way to put off pirates is do something similar. Make press conferences 10 times as long and mandatory.
Saying you don't have internet connection on your pc is like saying you don't have a cell phone. Yeah, not everybody has it, but at this point of the history it's just because you either don't want it, or you just can't afford it.
The board has probably quietened because nothing more can be said. I would say many will just not buy the game.
Just look at Milner's post above to show you how stupid the whole thing has become....yay SI.
Steam issues resolved now. Apparently, Steam was waiting for an update to Deus Ex that wasn't pushed out to me, so it stopped me from playing all the games in my library until it downloaded the patch.
I have no Internet at home (I'm on at work currently) - so I guess there'll be no FM 2012 for me then
Has it been confirmed that Steam must be running after the initial activation? I know this wasn't the case in the past.
I am getting fed up at people saying it is Si's fault. If people actually read what Miles' said in some of his replies SEGA presented SI with options of how to activate FM and this was to most viable of those options. Unfourtunatly, we don't know what those options were, they were obviously more obtrusive to the customer has this was the least obtrusive.
If its a Steam only game, Steam has to be running whenever you want to play the game.
If you close Steam while playing FM, it will warn you that doing so will also close FM.
I will as always buy the game. But I do resent being forced to use Steam.
So the only people this actually affects, are those that don't have the internet at all and can't get access to the internet for 60 seconds. And those who have a computer old enough (and probably below the recommended specs) that running a single extra application whilst the game is running affects performance of the game.
Why is there 20 pages of rage on this?
What do you do, if the ports for connecting to Steam are blocked ?
Steam price in the EU; 49.99
I hope no one actually pays that.
Here's the deal though - it shouldn't affect anyone.
And I bet that affects less customers than if they put up the minimum CPU requirement by a couple of years.
There is no reason why a PC or Mac with above the minimum system requirements can not run Steam at the same time as FM. And if there are problems there are lines of support to help with those problems. The customer impact is miniscule.
Steam really makes no difference in this regard. There's a risk of a leak whether you use Steam-only authentication or not. Civilization V was leaked early.
If you are worried about leaks, then tighten up your controls.
If only one car dealer exists in the world, car manufacturers will make less money than if there were two car dealers in the world (ideally competing against each other, of course).
Sure, your piracy rate might go down... But then again, that's meaningless if your sales figures don't increase to compensate for it.
You've also lost goodwill from many people with this decision, something you may never get back. You've potentially lost future sales of future iterations, too.
I can think of advantage for "no Steam" against "Steam" for the customers, although I of course understand why established Steam users usually won't mind (barring the fact there's a loss of choice), so what is the outweighing advantage of this middleware known as Steam?
As for those without that choice, I don't know. I know that coverage is pretty comprehensive in the UK and the ideal scenario is that anyone, with enough want, should be able to get onto the internet even for half an hour. The same can't be said for the rural United States or perhaps other poorer countries, but again I'm not knowledgeable on this. I know the forces are an example being mooted here - all I can say is that I hope SI/sega have a plan for them (which in itself would be an epic PR boost should any bright spark have a solution). Otherwise, it's just a matter of convenience and that tipping point before value for money.
I suppose I could make the point that a lot of modern games are practically unplayable without the internet anyway. The first patch in any game is almost vital - 2 PS3 games I played recently (FIFA11 and Bulletstorm) reached a point that I couldn't pass without a patch due to a bug. I'm sure not even Miles himself will claim that the unpatched FM12 will meet our expectations bugwise. I consider the patches essential and these need that same internet connection - so the people who you speak of are already left behind. The only difference being that you could overcome this with a USB key and co-operation with a helpful chum (who could in turn lend you the internet connection he used for the patch to install steam for the first time).
And "personal" information taken from Steam is a very woolly argument that has little to no substance. You're more likely to lose personal information from visiting a java website than through being signed up to Steam. You can't even buy anything online without having to register any more, and given that the majority of people will probably FM online they have already had to submit their details over a hackable connection, using a hackable client to a hackable website who might well on the sly sell your details on to someone dodgy anyway. Registering for Steam (where you don't have to even use actual personal information) is hardly a noticeable increased risk.
The rest of your post is telling SI what their sales figures will do, which I'm sure they're grateful for your input having clearly done zero research at all their end. ;)
Last edited by CaptainPlanet; 19-09-2011 at 10:37.
You can't use directx and drivers as a counter argument to having third party apps. That just doesn't make sense. Drivers and Directx are an integral part of an operating system, without which, hardware and software simply can't run.
It is not possible to make a modern game without making use of drivers or directx.
It is possible to make a modern game without having Steam running in the background. There is no technical reason why Steam is needed. It does not manager hardware, it does not provide a graphical engine.
Really disappointed by this, i have just cancelled my pre-order as i will not install steam on another one of my machines.
Was really looking forward to the next release as well as i have just played my longest every save on FM2011. Oh well after god knows how many years i have been playing CM/FM i am going to have to give up playing, still the good news is that i will suddenly have a lot more time available to do other things.
Why were they obviously more obtrusive??? I don't think decision was made with anyone in mind but Sega/SI/Steam...more money please. The peasants will have to accept it.
The part that is annoying people is that the justification for doing this is weak. The reason it is being done is because there is a greater profit margin (fine but don't tell porky pies about piracy).
Last edited by aaron70; 19-09-2011 at 10:49.
Well I, for one, agree with all the naysayers - why should we be forced to keep STEAM on our computers in order to play FM2012? It's infringing on my BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS to have to install a really horribly intrusive bit of software that totally slows my computer down and makes FM take a FEW SECONDS longer to load!!!
But why stop there? Let's RISE UP and conquer the evil oppression of SI that has gone on too long!
For years now, we have been forced to buy an awful, electricity hogging COMPUTER in order to play Football Manager! This is a grave injustice - why should I SPEND upwards of £1000 to play a £30 piece of software?! Join me, friends, and END THIS NOW!!!
FM2012 should run natively in PLANET EARTH!! I want to invert the pyramid in the soil of the forest, rage quit and replay the match in the oceans, and send SI hate mail in the skies because PASTORE WON'T SIGN FOR MAN UTD!!!
Let us shake off the shackles that the EVIL EMPIRE has placed upon us, and take back FM2012 FOR THE PEOPLE!!!
(P.S. I totally agree with Miles, and I don't see why people are getting their knickers in such a twist about this. Either you care about having to use Steam or you don't. If you don't, fine. If you do, either take your tinfoil hat off and suck it up, or don't buy the game. Either way, fine.)
I applaud SI for taking steps in countering piracy. Steam is definitely a way to do it. I've read some claims that Steam can disconnect you from the game world and make your games unavailable. But I'm not really concerned about that.
I'll be buying the disc of the game and installing it, and authenticating through Steam.
I've read more and more about Steam in the last few days, and it's parent company Valve. And I'm convinced more than ever that this is the right way to go.
It's now a system requirement to have Steam and an internet connection to authenticate the copy of FM12. And I have no issues with that at all.
x42bn6, you seem to be the one talking the most sense in opposition to the Steam Registration. I've got something I'd like to ask...
Last edited by Popider; 19-09-2011 at 10:59.
Accepting corporate lies as the truth. That is what we are getting upset. Don't make up stories about "this is to stop pirates, "this is in the consumers best interest". This is too make more money. I get tired of companies lying through their teeth and expected better of SI.
People can mock and say "get over it", "this is normal", "families shouldn't be able to play a game together", and if this is how the majority feels, than no wonder we are always gets ****ed up the ass by these companies.
This problem with the Steam servers being 'unavailable' and refusing to let you play your games, is this going to affect access to the editor as well? Because that could cause some huge problems for the likes of myself, wally and TheMinsterman.
Come to think of it, when has something like this happened and there hasn't been a backlash of forum rage? And how many times have companies introduced a DRM method that has significantly affected sales?
On the day of release steam will be a shambles mark my words.
Another that has jumped ship i'm afraid.
We're not getting anything up the ass, we are being asked to download a FREE 3rd party program, not pay for anything, you dont need to use any of your real personal details, sign up for a made up hotmail account and your fine, honestly, calm down.
If it was all about money, why are we not being charged for using steam. If you don't buy anything from steam they will make no money from, if anything SEGA would have to pay Steam for the use to allow everyone to activate through Steam. SAGE will get the same amount of money off me and others even if we didn't have activate it. So where does you logic 'more money please' come into the equation.Agreed. It is both SI and Sega's fault. I just lump them together under SI.
Why were they obviously more obtrusive??? I don't think decision was made with anyone in mind but Sega/SI/Steam...more money please. The peasants will have to accept it.
Everything moves on, even analog radio signals are going to be faded out and everyone will have to get a DAB radio or similar, Video started to fade out people had to buy DVD players, The Gaming industry moving toward online activations people have to get access to the interent. Only a few years ago Managers didn't need qualifications to coach but now they do, which they have to resit every so often which cost them more money every time because prices increases. DO you think they just said no and and didn't bother. If you need to do any business with barclays you have to have a card reader even in your house, everytime you log in you have to entre a code to autherise that it is you.
We could be doing that with Steam but no we just install it and it sits there, ok there maybe problems with losing connection, but efectively it just sitting there. If people want to get the internet they have to really on the provider keeping them supplied. We have to really on Steam to let us play FM.
I really can't beleive this.
For the first time ever I'm seriously considering not bothering this year.
Why don't people understand this? You activate the game through Steam. It's a one time activation. Once the game is installed, you just have to have Steam running, switch it to Offline mode.
I don't really see an issue with "Steam servers being 'unavailable'". After the 1 time activation you don't need to be connected to the Steam servers at all to play the game.
For what its worth ive now had my offline mode on for 5 days, not had any issues at all, fingers crossed it stays this way.
well, I wait to be convinced this is a good move.
I will try it though before totally brushing it off, but bet you when I get the game, want to activate and play, the steam site will down due thousands of people trying to register their games and their site crashes. Hope this offline works out, as I hate any kind of need to go on-line for gaming.
remember we've had to register to steam for demos, so really hope activating the actual game is a straight forward as it's being made to sound.
Unfounded? I guess you are privy to the figures SI has then? Dont listen to everything XB42 says, he makes good points but he is not always right. The switch to steam does not guarentee more money, they hope it will, but as you can see from this thread it runs the risk of backfiring, so that point is completely moot. You are also insulting a lot of people with your post, honestly calm down a bit, maybe take a break from this forum and situation for a few days and think about it rationally, no one is screwing you, no one is putting a gun to your head, and no one is taking the **** out of you, its simply a decision made by a compay to help protect their product, remember us fans dont own FM, we are customers, nothing more, if you dont like it dont buy their product, but please stop with this "SI are screwing the loyal customers" nonsense. Loyal customers buy the game no matter what, steam or not.
TBH I am not the biggest fan of steam, I have previously purchased games and had to install via steam which at the time seemed ok, however i did find steam slowed my machine quite considerably.
I have since changed to a MBP and a friend of mine thinks steam makes no difference to the running speed on his machine.
I am not against anti piracy, in fact i think it is a good idea, but why force people to use software they do not want to use. There seems to be a big anti-steam vibe going on at the moment and could mean a lot of fans are going to walk away from the game they love.
I can see many long term fans not buying the game this year!
so what is worse, lose a massive section of the fan base, where the majority buy the game legitimately or stop a handful of pirates?
if it was my company i would want to keep my loyal fans who repeatedly by the game year after year.
That was my point and you both know it.
I'm getting quite sick of this particular method of purposefully mis-reading or misinterpreting someone's point. It's pathetic. That's all anyone has been able to do throughout the entire thread when someone makes a valid point, and it comes from moderators (more than one) too.
If you can't bother to think of a reasonable argument, then just don't post anything, instead of trying to argue a point in someone's post that they never made in the first case.
Last edited by Wakers; 19-09-2011 at 11:25.
It seems to me that people think they have to play FM12 through steam and that their games will be stored online and not installed or saved to their computer.
That is not the case. All you have to do is have Steam running and Activate the game once online.
You still need Steam running and logged in under the user account, but you don't need it to be online, you can switch it to offline mode.
There are three inconveniences here
- Install Steam
- Activate game through Steam
- Have Steam always running when playing FM12
The first one seems to be bugging people immensely. I agree that installing a 3rd party software to play a game is annoying. But they are trying to get people to stop pirating, which I don't think this method will work, but that's neither here nor there.
The second one - people are confusing Activating through Steam with always having to be connected to the Steam Servers. You don't have be connected after you've Activated the game.
And the last one - you have to have Steam running when you play FM12 - and you can play it in Offline Mode. If you aren't planning to play FM12 then you can quit out of Steam and use your computer for other things. If you want to play FM12 then you need to log into Steam.
People are confusing the issue with Steam and how it works. And blowing it way out of proportion.
I see no reason to be upset unless I was one of those who were breaking the EULA agreement by playing a copy of the game registered with Steam and giving the CD to some one else to play. They really can't have a complaint about this decision, they've been breaking the law for years with older versions of the game and it's about time that there were some repercussions of that.
IMO Steam is a piece of useless crap and I hate using it, but if it lets me play FM12 then I'll put up with it.
I just read them for the first time and it seems there is the possibility for a fail if you haven't followed that procedure.
I don't say that's the cause of your issue, just that it might be as I certainly wasn't aware of the exact requirement even though I haven't had an issue.
Don't respond to Eugene. You can tell him something in simple English in one sentence and he will still reply to it as if you've said something else entirely, like he just did there.
Eugene - Steam offline mode is not 100% reliable, that was the point he made.
Are you gonna start banging on about how I said it was a major security risk again? Even though the whole forum could see that that was nothing like the point I was making?
Some people really need to get a grip.
It's just a tiny program that runs in the background. That's all it is. It doesn't affect anything, it doesn't cause any problems, it doesn't make the game run any worse. It's just a small program that stops people from stealing the game.
It's nothing major.
Oh...goodness...I am not even angry whilst typing. I have thought about this for three days. I have worked in fields that have had issues with piracy. That is enough to know what is being said is at best misleading. We all know there will be a pirated version within a week or two.
The only people I am insulting is Sega/SI who I feel are insulting me. I am surely not insulting you? In fact, as I said, I understand where you are coming from. However,I still do not see anything to suggest that Sega/SI are aiming to make life easier for their consumers here. They are therefore either lying or are idiots.
I agree as well that perhaps this will backfire. If it does, it is solely down to their choices and behaviour. Steam fine, but surely it would have been logical to have another option.
"Loyal customers buy the game no matter what, steam or not" - even if they are getting screwed...this is my whole point and what Sega/SI are planning on.
I will step back from this thread as it appears I am offending others who do not work for Sega/SI which is not my intention. Perhaps my wording is too strong, but I am tired of companies basically treating customers with contempt. It makes me sad rather than angry after playing this series of games for so many years. No consultation, no warning, than misleading statements to top it off.
Last edited by aaron70; 19-09-2011 at 11:31.
in an ideal world we would have the chance to uninstall steam after activation! Unfortunately this is not the case, and we will have to continue with steam installed, even though he no longer good for anything!
Unfortunately these are the rules of business, and we have to understand steam corporation. After all they are doing the best for their business.
For my part, as I said at the beginning, i rather had the chance to remove steam after installation, I think it would be a "cleaner" process for all. It is not the case ... okay!
It's FM, it's the only game i play, it's the only game i want to play!
David, I just had to comment as soon as I read your post, why are you trying to spruik benefits that are absolutely pish?
Really, achievements in FM, what were they before?....lets see. Win a game. Do not concede in a game. Really pointless......and in any case this is just for little kids under 12 to brag about to their mates who play it nothing more.
Secondly, I would rather download an update myself, rather than having steam do it automatically for me, it is really annoying when you want to start up the game and there is an update waiting, as well as the fact you may not want the update or you want to uninstall it. This in turn leads to wasted usage for people on limited bandwidth also.
Lastly, top quality download speeds??? Wow, I can get those from any decent server
Other than that I have no issue with activating through STEAM to combat piracy, but really David, great marketing gimmick!
Last edited by AliasPaul; 19-09-2011 at 11:33.
Also the point that Steam apparently (I haven't seen this personally, because I'm never in offline mode for so long) try and get online if you run it in offline mode for a certain amount of time (believed to be around 30 days or so)
And my point is about how people are confusing how Steam works.
I'm not aware of any offline issues with Steam. How is it unreliable for FM12? I don't see how it can be? Once it's activated it logged with Steam, so once it's running the game should load fine.
We'll just have to see when FM12 comes out. I suspect there'll be a few people with issues with Steam. But nothing significant or that can't be fixed.
Games I currently play and 3rd party applications I have to use or sites I have to register on to play the game:
Company of Heroes - Relic Online Account and Software that has to run whilst the game is
Battlefield: Bad Company 2 - Registered Account
Sins of a Solar Empire - Stardock Impulse Account and Software that has to run whilst the game is
Any MMO - Registered full account details online and Launcher Software that has to run whilst the game is
The Sims 3 (for the missus obviously) - Registered account and launcher software that has to run whilst the game is
As well as countless other smaller games that are only available through Steam, Impulse, Origin or bought through Direct2Drive and similar sites.
Similarly, if for example, if SI didn't use Steam at all, then some people would have issues installing and playing FM12. They did for FM11 and FM10 and FM09 and FM08 and FM07 and etc.
Some people's computers work differently.
This is the first time they're using Online Activation through Steam. And I for one will give them a chance and I think it will work out great.
If it doesn't then SI, Sega and Steam will have a lot to answer for.