Closed Thread
Page 19 of 42 FirstFirst ... 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 ... LastLast
Results 1,801 to 1,900 of 4173

Thread: A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation

  1. #1801
    Amateur
    Join Date
    15th November 2004
    Location
    Bonnie Scotland
    Posts
    941

    Default

    Just downloaded and set up Steam, and I have to say it was a rather painless experience I like the idea of a friends list, especially if you can see your friends and text them while you are both on FM??

    I do have another question though...... when the demo comes out, will it only be available through Steam as well?

    Steve

  2. #1802
    World Cup Winner
    Join Date
    20th May 2003
    Posts
    56,577

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mrstef View Post
    abit off topic but do mods do this in their own spare time then?
    Yes, we do.

  3. #1803
    Banned
    Join Date
    6th August 2011
    Posts
    68

    Default

    where does that time come from?

    i dont think my mrs would think to much of me if i sat at my comp, reading what a load of strangers are writing/moaning about

  4. #1804
    First Team
    Join Date
    5th June 2007
    Location
    Wishing Brendan Rodgers had been this good in 2010
    Posts
    22,222

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mrstef View Post
    abit off topic but do mods do this in their own spare time then?
    For the most part. Da Fudge is an exception though, he doesn't have spare time.
    Quote Originally Posted by pigfacemonkeyman View Post
    The original thread I opened, which had it's title changed to "Poll On Steam Activation", was closed at 2AM saturday morning by Neil Brock (SI). Can you please tell me when a thread was last closed by an SI employee? (prior to the aforementioned)
    And what percentage of all threads closed have been done so by SI employees and not Moderators?
    There's no such statistics, but as the others said, Neil Brock is pretty much a mod anyway. It's not exactly rare for any SI employee to close a thread though.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrstef View Post
    where does that time come from?

    i dont think my mrs would think to much of me if i sat at my comp, reading what a load of strangers are writing/moaning about
    It comes from not watching Eastenders!

  5. #1805
    Banned
    Join Date
    6th August 2011
    Posts
    68

    Default

    i read on dafuge's profile. You are teacher right? a proper school teacher? Please tell me you mod whilst your meant to be teaching 5 year olds

    I would find that really funny

  6. #1806
    Amateur
    Join Date
    19th August 2008
    Location
    Southend on Sea, Essex, UK
    Posts
    70

    Default

    I will be pre-ordering it through steam. I certainly hope that mac version of the game will work properly this year. Last year I had to delete several files prior to each time started the game (skin cache) otherwise it wouldn't load. I was impressed by steam up to that point.

    On another point, the amount of mac games available on steam is awful, unless you want to play a farm or traffic management sim!

  7. #1807
    Banned
    Join Date
    26th October 2010
    Posts
    827

    Default

    I will likely be preordering through Steam, same as last year. Digital distribution! Wave of the future! Love it!

    (SI, if you want to make the game available solely through Steam, I wouldn't mind. Just a thought for next year!)

  8. #1808
    Banned
    Join Date
    27th February 2010
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    721

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shake Appeal View Post
    Digital distribution! Wave of the future! Love it!
    I agree, but that's not really the main concern of the thread - the main concern is that the distribution system needs to stay active even after the distribution has been made. If it was only a matter of having to activate once through Steam, and then you could uninstall it and never deal with it again, I doubt many would have an issue with it.

    But Steam is like getting a delivery of books, and every time you want to read them, the postman has to stand next to you.

  9. #1809
    Banned
    Join Date
    6th August 2011
    Posts
    68

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shake Appeal View Post
    I will likely be preordering through Steam, same as last year. Digital distribution! Wave of the future! Love it!

    (SI, if you want to make the game available solely through Steam, I wouldn't mind. Just a thought for next year!)
    How ignorant! Im not impressed

  10. #1810
    First Team Squad Member
    Join Date
    4th April 2003
    Location
    Is finding it difficult to settle in the new forum. Is homesick. Is Unsettled.
    Posts
    15,755

    Default

    I'm not really sure what questioning moderators or employees has to do with the topic at hand.

  11. #1811
    Banned
    Join Date
    6th August 2011
    Posts
    68

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wakers View Post
    I'm not really sure what questioning moderators or employees has to do with the topic at hand.
    Is that aimed at me?

    Thats why i said off topic

  12. #1812
    Banned
    Join Date
    27th February 2010
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    721

    Default

    By the way, to just comment on some of the pro-Steam arguments from Miles;

    1. An insurance company exists because of thieves. Sports Interactive doesn't exist because of pirates, they exist because of us, the consumers paying for the game (and therefore for the development of it). We should be rewarded, not punished.

    2. I don't have to start my graphics drivers or DirectX every time I want to play FM. Steam adds startup time and extra resources on top of Football Manager. My Steam usually takes about 40-60 seconds to start, connect and idle.

  13. #1813
    Amateur
    Join Date
    11th February 2004
    Location
    São Paulo/Brazil (I'm a Mac)
    Posts
    289

    Default

    I've tried Steam before, unfortunately it DO NOT WORK ON MAC. For me it was a waste of money and time. I hope Sega/SI give more options for 2013, like Mac App Store (and future Windows App Store). I'll keep playing FM2011 for another year and I hope all those people complaining about Steam do the same. The only way Sega/SI can change their mind is if this year sales is affected. Boycott!!!!!!

  14. #1814
    Amateur
    Join Date
    19th April 2003
    Posts
    637

    Default

    I've used steam for Football Manager for both FM10 and FM11 (and about 100 other games)

    It has its good points and bad points

    Lets get the bad out of the way first:

    1) It's partly the reason why you cant go to a game store and find any PC games on the shelves
    2) Competition in pc game retail is pretty much nil as Steam has for the most part vacuumed it all up
    3) Digital delivery doesnt actually save you any money at all, in fact they like to charge £40 for Football Manager when its not on sale (it is up at £29.99 at the moment, get it while you can if you are getting it directly from steam)
    4) If you have a large collection on steam you feel obliged to purchase your games from there as it is a convenient way to manage your games libary, however this means that you are likely to miss out on pre order bonuses from purchasing the game from other routes (such as EA who seem to think that their Origin delivery system isnt rubbish)
    5) If you have a slow pc I can see how it would impact your enjoyment of the game in having to have steam run in the background
    6) support is pretty crap


    The Good

    1) No need to wait on the postman to deliver your game, or hope that its in stock in the stores it will be available on the release date.
    2) You can genereally pre load most games, and this means you can get playing it more quickly
    3) No cd to worry about
    4) If your system is relatively modern you should not notice the additional load from having steam running on your system
    5) You can get some pretty awesome prices for games when they are having a big sale.
    6) There is an offline mode you know, that still lets you play your games
    7) magic auto patch, no longer have to go patch mirror hunting for your games


    Personally I like steam due to its convenience, I think there is a risk to the industry that it will have a monopoly on game delivery for the pc market, but not quite yet as there are still a few alternatives and traditional game stores are starting to get their act together around electronic delivery, although I think at this point it will be expensive for them to encourage gamers with large game catalogues already on steam to switch services.
    Last edited by N^G; 18-09-2011 at 16:24. Reason: added some content

  15. #1815
    Part-Timer
    Join Date
    11th September 2004
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    1,852

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexandre View Post
    I've tried Steam before, unfortunately it DO NOT WORK ON MAC.
    Hm? Steam has a Mac client since a little over a year back.

  16. #1816
    Amateur
    Join Date
    11th February 2004
    Location
    São Paulo/Brazil (I'm a Mac)
    Posts
    289

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scab View Post
    Hm? Steam has a Mac client since a little over a year back.
    Exactly, it has a Mac client which do not work properly, that's how I know it doesn't work on Mac.

  17. #1817
    Part-Timer
    Join Date
    15th February 2006
    Location
    Cardiff
    Posts
    1,172

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Huney Munster View Post
    As I will not be able to unstall the game via steam to resale...

    So I presume when purchasing a hard copy of the game will include a licence agreement that states the copy of the licenced software is not resalable after use?
    Or will I be able to create a new account on Steam to install the game and include the details of the account with the game on resale?

    Although I do not resale my old games so this doesnt effect me personaly.
    Huney Munster, Just finished reading everything from Miles' post and have seen that no-one answer this question. Hard copies are linked to a Steam account once activated, if for instance you activated a game then decided to sell it on you would have to give that person your details in order for them to play the game. They cannot create an account in their name and use your activation code.

  18. #1818
    Youth Team
    Join Date
    18th December 2006
    Location
    Romsey
    Posts
    4,956

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexandre View Post
    Exactly, it has a Mac client which do not work properly, that's how I know it doesn't work on Mac.
    In what way does it not work properly? I didn't even notice any problems with the Beta.

  19. #1819
    Moderator
    Join Date
    28th April 2005
    Location
    Mankind is the only creature smart enough to know its own history, and dumb enough to ignore it.
    Posts
    28,343

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mantralux View Post
    2. I don't have to start my graphics drivers or DirectX every time I want to play FM. Steam adds startup time and extra resources on top of Football Manager. My Steam usually takes about 40-60 seconds to start, connect and idle.
    Nevertheless they do start up and do take time to do so, and you don't have to boot Steam it starts automatically too, the only difference is that you see it.

    If I boot Steam on it's own it loads in 3 seconds, if I boot FM (without Steam already running it takes 55 seconds to fully load. If I boot Steam and then boot FM, FM takes 35 seconds (plus the 3 for Steam)
    That's a really weird anomoly

  20. #1820
    Amateur
    Join Date
    11th February 2004
    Location
    São Paulo/Brazil (I'm a Mac)
    Posts
    289

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SnakeXe View Post
    In what way does it not work properly? I didn't even notice any problems with the Beta.
    I installed Steam to play Cities in Motion but it was annoying unstable, crashing and freezing often on a 2 yo iMac Snow Leopard. Bought the game again from Direct2drive and now it works 100%. It's a resources draining software, I won't have it on my computer again, even if that means I won't be playing any new version of FM.

  21. #1821
    Amateur
    Join Date
    19th August 2008
    Location
    Southend on Sea, Essex, UK
    Posts
    70

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexandre View Post
    Exactly, it has a Mac client which do not work properly, that's how I know it doesn't work on Mac.
    It works on mine. The client at least, FM 20011 has a few teething problems as I mentioned previously.

  22. #1822
    Sports Interactive Rb's Avatar
    Join Date
    13th April 2002
    Posts
    13,582

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexandre View Post
    I installed Steam to play Cities in Motion but it was annoying unstable, crashing and freezing often on a 2 yo iMac Snow Leopard. Bought the game again from Direct2drive and now it works 100%. It's a resources draining software, I won't have it on my computer again, even if that means I won't be playing any new version of FM.
    How long ago was this?

    I have a similarly aged same OS MacBook pro and when steam initially came out for it I would agree. But they've since released a number updates which have made it a lot more stable. For me at least, it's at just as stable as the PC version now.

  23. #1823
    Amateur
    Join Date
    7th July 2002
    Location
    Liverpool, UK
    Posts
    332

    Default

    I haven't had any problems with Steam and I've bought Football Manager on it for the last couple of years.

    I have a question though. Every year a buy a copy of Football Manager and send it to my brother who lives in Germany. Will he have problems registering with Steam and playing Football Manager as I believe Football Manager is not sold in Germany?

    If, as I suspect, this act by you negates my brother's chances of playing this game again (a game that I have been buying twice for the last 10 years on release day as to support SI and their hard work) then I'm saying goodbye to this game. I so want to use some expletives now to discribe adequately exactly how betrayed I feel!

  24. #1824
    Moderator
    Join Date
    28th April 2005
    Location
    Mankind is the only creature smart enough to know its own history, and dumb enough to ignore it.
    Posts
    28,343

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Petros7 View Post
    I haven't had any problems with Steam and I've bought Football Manager on it for the last couple of years.

    I have a question though. Every year a buy a copy of Football Manager and send it to my brother who lives in Germany. Will he have problems registering with Steam and playing Football Manager as I believe Football Manager is not sold in Germany?

    If, as I suspect, this act by you negates my brother's chances of playing this game again (a game that I have been buying twice for the last 10 years on release day as to support SI and their hard work) then I'm saying goodbye to this game. I so want to use some expletives now to discribe adequately exactly how betrayed I feel!
    Miles has said he'll get this clarified by Sega, there's a significant user base in Germany (forces etc) so I'd be surprised if they don't have a solution, if indeed there's actually a problem.

  25. #1825
    Amateur
    Join Date
    7th July 2002
    Location
    Liverpool, UK
    Posts
    332

    Default

    Thanks, Kriss. Goog to know it's been looked at.

    At least, I can calm down now a bit. I've only just seen this activation thing today and I was shocked!

  26. #1826
    Amateur
    Join Date
    5th October 2004
    Location
    Slovenia
    Posts
    640

    Default

    On a slightly unrelated note: Portal is free on steam until 20th.

    Im still against steam only release though

  27. #1827
    First Team
    Join Date
    5th June 2007
    Location
    Wishing Brendan Rodgers had been this good in 2010
    Posts
    22,222

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jakobx View Post
    On a slightly unrelated note: Portal is free on steam until 20th.
    How can I take advantage of this offer?

  28. #1828
    Amateur
    Join Date
    31st March 2007
    Posts
    41

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by David - SEGA View Post
    Each year we give you an update on the status of copy protection and activation of Football Manager and the decisions taken as we know it’s a hot topic for many of you, although for many others it’s not really an issue at all.

    As you may remember, last year we decided against any activation as we couldn't find a solution that we thought struck a balance on combatting piracy and not penalising the genuine consumer. We did make our position on anti-piracy pretty clear though, we see it as a big problem for our game and we said we'd continue to look for a solution that stopped, or made it very difficult to pirate the game and play it for free.

    This year we have found what we believe is an acceptable solution. Any version of Football Manager 2012 bought on disc will have to be activated through the Steam network, so therefore purchasers will have to have an internet connection for initial activation. This is a one-time only activation which requires you to sign up for a Steam account (which is free) and to install the Steam client and once it has been done the game can be played offline by turning on Steam's Offline mode. With those two simple steps done there are no more hoops to jump through or steps to take.

    We appreciate that the vast majority of people reading this post on the forums are genuine consumers of the game, and that having to activate is not as simple as putting the game in the drive and playing. However we hope that, as a fan of the game, you feel that having to do a one-time activation is worth it to try to prevent others playing the game for free and stealing what you purchase with no punishment, and with no contribution toward the future of Football Manager and it's development. Make no mistake, if a quarter of the people that usually pirate the game switch to purchasing Football Manager 2012, the sales of the game worldwide would more than double. This would lead to increased development budgets and more benefits for all of you who do buy the game.

    We've taken this decision because we believe that the steps the consumer has to take are not excessive, and that as a one-time only measure with no tracking or reporting it is not too intrusive. Having worked with Steam for a few years now we also believe that their system is ever improving and gives Football Manager players a good service of free auto-updating, achievements and other great benefits without cost or hassle.

    We hope you understand and support the decision. It's by no means taken lightly, although I hope for the vast majority of you it's nowhere near as big an issue as we treat it as being.

    In summary:
    • You need to connect to the internet to activate Football Manager 2012 on PC and Mac before you start playing it
    • To activate you will need to sign up to, and install the Steam client
    • Once you have activated Football Manager 2012 you can then play it in Steam's "offline mode" - meaning you do not have to be connected to the internet to play
    • Saved games are stored locally on your machine, but you can play Football Manager on any machine by signing into Steam and selecting it from your purchased games
    • Staying connected to Steam will mean Football Manager 2012 is automatically updated with any patches or data updates released
    Id like to calrify a point you make in this post with regards to a "one time activation"

    if it is a "ONE time activation" why am i being told that i have to keep steam on my system after activation?

    surely if i activate my game, you / sega/ steam know it is therefore not a pirate?

    do you think after paying for the game im then going to decide i want to play a pirate version?

    if every time i start the game steam has to make sure my game is activated then it is surely not a "ONE time activation" but "ONE time EVERY time you start the game?"

    (My previous question still hasnt been answered by the way SI!, you want to provide good customer care, so i dont want to use steam, what care are you providing me with?)

  29. #1829
    Part-Timer
    Join Date
    10th November 2008
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,525

    Default

    does activating it through steam mean i wont be able to sell it on. i sell my old games as well as dvd/blu ray and electicals to cex which then give me a voucher to use on other stuff sold in cex i buy 80-90% of my games dvd electical equipment from cex its a fantastic company i doubt ill buy it if this is the case!!!!!!
    Last edited by arsenalthebest; 18-09-2011 at 19:11.

  30. #1830
    Part-Timer
    Join Date
    11th September 2004
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    1,852

    Default

    You can't sell the game on, no.

  31. #1831
    Amateur
    Join Date
    28th October 2005
    Posts
    844

    Default

    Bottom line is this...

    You're still forcing us to download and run a product I do not want on my PC

    I don't mind activating it via Steam but if I've done this, I should then be able to delete Steam from my PC.

    That's called compromise.

  32. #1832
    Amateur
    Join Date
    22nd October 2005
    Location
    In front of my computer, playing FM12...
    Posts
    212

    Thumbs down

    I'm seriously disappointed that you choose to force us using steam... I really recommend you to reconsider your decision.

    For now, as a long time CM/FM player, I am thinking about cancelling my purchase if steam stays the only registering system.

    I do understand some of us have no problem with steam, but I remember having difficulties letting with steam on my previous computer, and never wanted to use it anymore. I really like Football Manager, but I CAN'T understand I should install what I consider a useless (In my case) program in order to play a great game.

    So PLEASE, let the steam system for those who want to register FM2012 by that system, BUT let us choose to register the game by whatever other system you want.

  33. #1833
    Moderator
    Join Date
    2nd November 2009
    Posts
    5,871

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SCIAG View Post
    How can I take advantage of this offer?
    http://store.steampowered.com/app/400/?snr=1_5_9__205

  34. #1834
    First Team
    Join Date
    5th June 2007
    Location
    Wishing Brendan Rodgers had been this good in 2010
    Posts
    22,222

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by themadsheep2001 View Post
    Thank you kindly.

    Any chance of us getting Portal 2 free when we activate a copy of FM12?

  35. #1835
    Moderator
    Join Date
    11th July 2008
    Location
    127.0.0.1
    Posts
    5,450

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by themadsheep2001 View Post
    Thanks for that. Shame I keep getting 'Steam servers are too busy to handle your request' pop up. Ho-hum.

  36. #1836
    Part-Timer
    Join Date
    23rd June 2009
    Location
    Barreiro, Portugal
    Posts
    1,810

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stevetranmere View Post
    Id like to calrify a point you make in this post with regards to a "one time activation"

    if it is a "ONE time activation" why am i being told that i have to keep steam on my system after activation?

    surely if i activate my game, you / sega/ steam know it is therefore not a pirate?

    do you think after paying for the game im then going to decide i want to play a pirate version?

    if every time i start the game steam has to make sure my game is activated then it is surely not a "ONE time activation" but "ONE time EVERY time you start the game?"

    (My previous question still hasnt been answered by the way SI!, you want to provide good customer care, so i dont want to use steam, what care are you providing me with?)
    yeah, this leaves me a bit confuse also.

    I dont have any problem do download steam, install it, in order to activate my game. But why do i need to leave it on my PC after that? It's activate, so why does Steam need to be load everytime i want to play the game? I know i wont notice... but still, why is the method built like this?

    I really think that we, paying users, should have the choice to delete steam after the activation.

    This is the only point of the whole process that i dont like.

    Well, if we think about, i know the answer already. Steam needs clients, and with this method they will get hundreds of new clients, with steam installed... and if for each 100, 1 new client buy a game... it's profit! Just a shame, that in order for us to play FM, we are forced down our throats with steam.

    I really think that even the guys from SI and Sega will agree that it would be a much "cleaner" process if we were given the option to delete steam after the activation!

  37. #1837
    Part-Timer
    Join Date
    16th December 2005
    Location
    The otherside of reality...
    Posts
    1,787

    Default

    Reading this thread just makes you wonder what the people who don't have internet connections would post? I think a lot of them would look like this: and then a minute or two later:

    Just thought maybe someone somewhere is thinking "phew" right this second for them not being here due to obvious reasons...
    Last edited by Loversleaper; 18-09-2011 at 20:30.

  38. #1838
    Semi Pro
    Join Date
    24th November 2005
    Location
    1 year, 2 trophies. 3 more in 4 years - what dya reckon?
    Posts
    3,812

    Default

    I would suggest if we really REALLY want to protest we should either
    a/ not buy on release day (would be great but unlikely to happen)
    b/ coordinate 1 day when none of us access the SI Games site as a protest.

    I like the 2nd idea but fear it would be a waste of time. More importantly it seems quite a lot of members see no problem with this Steam activation (something that surprises and disappoints me as it casts those that cannot activate online into the FM abyss - not nice!).

    I guess we will wait until 21st Oct and see what happens but if I have problems with Steam I fear FM12 will be my last title purchase. I could forever play FM11 if I had to without too many regrets under the circumstances. CM was effectively killed by bad corporate decisions, there could be a lesson to learn there.

  39. #1839
    First Team Squad Member
    Join Date
    4th April 2003
    Location
    Is finding it difficult to settle in the new forum. Is homesick. Is Unsettled.
    Posts
    15,755

    Default

    For those saying that Steam is the best thing ever;

    I currently have time for the first time in a week to play Deus Ex. Try to launch; This game is currently unavailable. Super. No updates are waiting to be downloaded, it just won't start. Even in offline mode, the same error comes back.

    If this happens once, it's too much. Unfortunately, it happens too often.

  40. #1840
    Amateur
    Join Date
    5th October 2004
    Location
    Slovenia
    Posts
    640

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by metal_guitarist View Post
    Thanks for that. Shame I keep getting 'Steam servers are too busy to handle your request' pop up. Ho-hum.
    Yeah...it doesnt seem to work at the moment for me as well. Wanted to play some game and yet again it fails. This forum is going to be fun on release day

  41. #1841
    First Team Squad Member
    Join Date
    4th April 2003
    Location
    Is finding it difficult to settle in the new forum. Is homesick. Is Unsettled.
    Posts
    15,755

    Default

    Steam won't let me play any games, but has plenty of times to give me pop ups about the latest game release.

    Such a ****** piece of crapware sometimes. Shocking that a company wants to make it the only way to play their game. Absolutely shocking. Seems to do this to me at least once a week, and always when I have specifically set aside time to play a game.

  42. #1842
    Amateur
    Join Date
    14th November 2008
    Posts
    175

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wakers View Post
    Steam won't let me play any games, but has plenty of times to give me pop ups about the latest game release.

    Such a ****** piece of crapware sometimes. Shocking that a company wants to make it the only way to play their game. Absolutely shocking. Seems to do this to me at least once a week, and always when I have specifically set aside time to play a game.
    I don't believe its right that SI are forcing people to use steam to play FM 12 but I have never had a single issue with Steam in regard to the numerous games I have on there and I've been using it for years.
    Last edited by Themer; 18-09-2011 at 21:09.

  43. #1843
    First Team Squad Member
    Join Date
    4th April 2003
    Location
    Is finding it difficult to settle in the new forum. Is homesick. Is Unsettled.
    Posts
    15,755

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Themer View Post
    I don't believe its right that SI are forcing people to use steam to play FM 12 but I have never had a single issue with Steam in regardless to the numerous games I have on there and I've been using it for years.
    Tells me every game in my library is unavailable at the moment. Has been like that the past 15 minutes. This happens to me about once every week or fortnight for a period of about 2 months, and then won't happen for ages again.

    My internet connection is working fine, I've tried launching in offline mode, Deus Ex doesn't need to update, Steam can load adverts fine...so I don't know what's happening. Maybe the servers are too busy, but that's pretty poor for a Sunday evening.

  44. #1844
    Moderator
    Join Date
    11th July 2008
    Location
    127.0.0.1
    Posts
    5,450

    Default

    So Steam is taking a dump on everyone at the minute it seems

  45. #1845
    Moderator
    Join Date
    28th June 2004
    Location
    Guess you only get one chance in life to play a song that goes like this.
    Posts
    35,511

    Default

    Steam currently working for me - but then I've been logged in most of the day so maybe it's the log-in server that's being a problem?

  46. #1846
    Moderator
    Join Date
    11th July 2008
    Location
    127.0.0.1
    Posts
    5,450

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ackter View Post
    Steam currently working for me - but then I've been logged in most of the day so maybe it's the log-in server that's being a problem?
    Nope I'm logged in fine, but I go to install Portal and it refuses to do it If this is going to do this with FM12 as routinely as Wakers says, there's going to be a lot of peed off people.

  47. #1847
    Moderator
    Join Date
    28th June 2004
    Location
    Guess you only get one chance in life to play a song that goes like this.
    Posts
    35,511

    Default

    I've had that problem once when Civ 5 came out first, but not since. I only play FM though so I doubt I'm as frequent a user as Wakers.

  48. #1848
    Amateur
    Join Date
    5th October 2004
    Location
    Slovenia
    Posts
    640

    Default

    Praise the lord.. Steam is working again for me. Really annoying. Its a good thing i have mostly non steam games.

  49. #1849
    First Team Squad Member
    Join Date
    4th April 2003
    Location
    Is finding it difficult to settle in the new forum. Is homesick. Is Unsettled.
    Posts
    15,755

    Default

    I can log in fine. It's currently updating Magic, the Gathering. I don't think this is the problem as it often updates game in the background while I'm playing something else.

    Really does happen far too often.

    Still doesn't want to let me play.

  50. #1850
    Amateur
    Join Date
    22nd September 2009
    Location
    Kiev, Ukraine
    Posts
    385

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Petros7 View Post
    Thanks, Kriss. Goog to know it's been looked at.

    At least, I can calm down now a bit. I've only just seen this activation thing today and I was shocked!
    Just a small hint - activate the game on you brother's steam account (change Germany to your country before that in his account) prior to sending the disc over. This will solve the problem even is sega won't help you officially.
    Cheers,
    Ivan

  51. #1851
    Moderator
    Join Date
    11th July 2008
    Location
    127.0.0.1
    Posts
    5,450

    Default

    Nope, mine still doesn't work either.

  52. #1852
    Amateur
    Join Date
    22nd October 2005
    Location
    In front of my computer, playing FM12...
    Posts
    212

    Thumbs down

    So, if I understand well, we are forced to use a program which can sometimes prevent us from playing a game we buy ??? Really not good... Will FM2012 be the worst sell of the FM serie, just because of an "only steam activation" choice ?
    Fortunately, there's still one complete month before the launch date...
    Last edited by Racatte; 18-09-2011 at 22:01. Reason: Don't like "lauch", I prefer "launch"...

  53. #1853
    Amateur
    Join Date
    30th October 2009
    Posts
    593

    Default

    I won't be buying this game if Steam is the only way to activate and therefore play the game. Firstly, Steam is poor. Secondly, on principal being forced to use it offends me as I feel the choice should be mine. I don't care how many benefits Steam has, or how much steam sales patter I hear from SEGA staff, this is a terrible decision.
    Last edited by Kriss; 19-09-2011 at 03:25. Reason: Saving a fool from a ban

  54. #1854
    Moderator
    Join Date
    11th July 2008
    Location
    127.0.0.1
    Posts
    5,450

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Racatte View Post
    So, if I understand well, we are forced to use a program which can sometimes prevent us from playing a game we buy ???
    Yep, great isn't it?

  55. #1855
    Amateur
    Join Date
    16th October 2004
    Location
    Lost... And also naked.. Do you know where i live?
    Posts
    710

    Default

    I would be interested in seeing how many people who are against Steam being all for a genuine ONE TIME ACTIVATION. I've been very vocal about my dislike for Steam for a couple of reasons...

    1. I'm being forced into not only downloading something i don't want but also....
    2. Being forced to keep it AFTER i have activated my game.

    I would be all for a true one time activation. But this clearly isn't as if we really are only activating this game once then once it has been activated i have no more use for it.

    Be honest Si, Miles, Sega.... The only reason that the whole "Activate/Delete." isn't an option is because Steam must have rangled a grubby little stipulation into the deal saying "Ok we'll do the online activation, but write something into the game that say's they have to keep Steam after activation, no reason why we can't try and make a little more money from them." Hell i wouldn't like hearing it but i could sit here and respect the honesty if nothing else if you were to just admit to that at least.

    Explain to me why we have to keep Steam after activation? Explain to me the reason for Steam being written into the game at such a level that it won't function without it even after we activated it after purchasing it through legal means?

    I'm willing to bet at least 90% of those against Steam would be willing to use it, activate the game and then delete it. I wouldn't have a problem with that at all.

    So, i ask once again. Why has FM12 been written in a way that i have to keep Steam after activation?

  56. #1856
    Part-Timer
    Join Date
    21st April 2003
    Location
    Leeds - Scouring the papers looking for Leeds Utd signings!
    Posts
    1,224

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Brock View Post
    In relation to this we're pretty proud of our level of support so hopefully if people do have issues with Steam we can certainly try and help out. Also people can easily turn off 'auto-updates' for FM and Steam via the preferences.
    I like Steam Neil and have no problem with the decision but there is an issue with Steam and turning off auto updates, basically they don't turn off permantly it seems and if you do have to re-install for any reason it will always re-install the latest version. This was a problem for me with Farcry 2 as their last patch basically broke something in the game and there's no way of going back. However this won't be a problem for people with FM as you guys won't allow a serious issue to not be patched like UbiSoft did.

    But it's certainly a valid concern for people regarding Steam and auto-updates but as I say for FM that won't be a problem as far as I can see.

  57. #1857
    Amateur
    Join Date
    30th October 2009
    Posts
    593

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_no_7 View Post
    I would be interested in seeing how many people who are against Steam being all for a genuine ONE TIME ACTIVATION. I've been very vocal about my dislike for Steam for a couple of reasons...

    1. I'm being forced into not only downloading something i don't want but also....
    2. Being forced to keep it AFTER i have activated my game.

    I would be all for a true one time activation. But this clearly isn't as if we really are only activating this game once then once it has been activated i have no more use for it.

    Be honest Si, Miles, Sega.... The only reason that the whole "Activate/Delete." isn't an option is because Steam must have rangled a grubby little stipulation into the deal saying "Ok we'll do the online activation, but write something into the game that say's they have to keep Steam after activation, no reason why we can't try and make a little more money from them." Hell i wouldn't like hearing it but i could sit here and respect the honesty if nothing else if you were to just admit to that at least.

    Explain to me why we have to keep Steam after activation? Explain to me the reason for Steam being written into the game at such a level that it won't function without it even after we activated it after purchasing it through legal means?

    I'm willing to bet at least 90% of those against Steam would be willing to use it, activate the game and then delete it. I wouldn't have a problem with that at all.

    So, i ask once again. Why has FM12 been written in a way that i have to keep Steam after activation?
    Spot on. 101010

  58. #1858
    Moderator
    Join Date
    11th July 2008
    Location
    127.0.0.1
    Posts
    5,450

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_no_7 View Post
    I would be interested in seeing how many people who are against Steam being all for a genuine ONE TIME ACTIVATION. I've been very vocal about my dislike for Steam for a couple of reasons...

    1. I'm being forced into not only downloading something i don't want but also....
    2. Being forced to keep it AFTER i have activated my game.

    I would be all for a true one time activation. But this clearly isn't as if we really are only activating this game once then once it has been activated i have no more use for it.

    Be honest Si, Miles, Sega.... The only reason that the whole "Activate/Delete." isn't an option is because Steam must have rangled a grubby little stipulation into the deal saying "Ok we'll do the online activation, but write something into the game that say's they have to keep Steam after activation, no reason why we can't try and make a little more money from them." Hell i wouldn't like hearing it but i could sit here and respect the honesty if nothing else if you were to just admit to that at least.

    Explain to me why we have to keep Steam after activation? Explain to me the reason for Steam being written into the game at such a level that it won't function without it even after we activated it after purchasing it through legal means?

    I'm willing to bet at least 90% of those against Steam would be willing to use it, activate the game and then delete it. I wouldn't have a problem with that at all.

    So, i ask once again. Why has FM12 been written in a way that i have to keep Steam after activation?
    I'd still be annoyed at having to use a 3rd party application, but I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it as I do with being forced to use it. Personally, I quite liked the Uniloc way, server overload aside.

  59. #1859
    Part-Timer
    Join Date
    21st April 2003
    Location
    Leeds - Scouring the papers looking for Leeds Utd signings!
    Posts
    1,224

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cougar2010 View Post
    It does if you are in "Online" mode as far as I know.
    I have used steam for years for a lot of games, Farcry 2, Fallout 3, FM, Civ 5 and others and never have I been forced to quit a game because of Steam, nor has steam ever been the cause of a crash of any of the games I've ever played.

  60. #1860
    Amateur
    Join Date
    16th October 2004
    Location
    Lost... And also naked.. Do you know where i live?
    Posts
    710

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by metal_guitarist View Post
    I'd still be annoyed at having to use a 3rd party application, but I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it as I do with being forced to use it. Personally, I quite liked the Uniloc way, server overload aside.
    I can totally understand that, as i said i believe 90% of people would be for the whole Activate/Delete option. 10% would be against Steam and i fully understand why and wouldn't act as high and mighty as to assume that they are just being stubborn for the sake of being stubborn. I'd still be disappointed at having to use Steam once but if i was 100% assured that it would be ONCE and ONCE ONLY i would make a compromise.

    Now if myself and other's are willing to make a compromise and purchase the game for a 100% true to form ONE TIME ACTIVATION then Si need to act to ensure that is the case.

    Compromise is a two way street, we'll do our part Si by buying the game and activating. Is it so much to ask that you do your part by removing the need for Steam after activation?

    (P.S. by ONE TIME ACTIVATION i mean that once it's activated i can remove Steam totally and just run it from the disc.)
    Last edited by Matt_no_7; 18-09-2011 at 21:56.

  61. #1861
    Moderator
    Join Date
    11th July 2008
    Location
    127.0.0.1
    Posts
    5,450

    Default

    This current experience I'm having with Steam however isn't a great advert for the future

  62. #1862
    Part-Timer
    Join Date
    16th December 2005
    Location
    The otherside of reality...
    Posts
    1,787

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NeilUK View Post
    but as I say for FM that won't be a problem as far as I can see.
    That may be the case, unless of course you have a stationary computer and unluckily don't have internet connection. I could add that one could live on the 5th floor and the nearest internet connection is accross town, but that might be a little far fetched because imagine you get to the final destination and the servers are a little too busy for you at that moment...

    SI must have thought this through and business-wise it must make sense according to their marketing team. That means that the vast majority of sales must be from people that have internet connections (stats don't lie, right?), because if it is really due to the piracy aspect then they wouldn't want to appear as if they are trying to swat a mosquito with a tank. The statistics must be on their side or it would be a little suicidal (business-wise)...
    Last edited by Loversleaper; 18-09-2011 at 21:58.

  63. #1863
    First Team Squad Member
    Join Date
    4th April 2003
    Location
    Is finding it difficult to settle in the new forum. Is homesick. Is Unsettled.
    Posts
    15,755

    Default

    Still unavailable. Not worth seeing when it comes back now.

    Very poor. If it can't handle a random Sunday evening, then its got no chance when FM is released. Unless of course, this is a one off technical glitch (of which they have quite a few from my experience).

  64. #1864
    Part-Timer
    Join Date
    23rd June 2009
    Location
    Barreiro, Portugal
    Posts
    1,810

    Default

    But if we set steam as offline, we dont get affect by any kind of steam problem... right?

  65. #1865
    Amateur
    Join Date
    18th July 2011
    Posts
    44

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_no_7 View Post
    I can totally understand that, as i said i believe 90% of people would be for the whole Activate/Delete option. 10% would be against Steam and i fully understand why and wouldn't act as high and mighty as to assume that they are just being stubborn for the sake of being stubborn. I'd still be disappointed at having to use Steam once but if i was 100% assured that it would be ONCE and ONCE ONLY i would make a compromise.

    Now if myself and other's are willing to make a compromise and purchase the game for a 100% true to form ONE TIME ACTIVATION then Si need to act to ensure that is the case.

    Compromise is a two way street, we'll do our part Si by buying the game and activating. Is it so much to ask that you do your part by removing the need for Steam after activation?

    (P.S. by ONE TIME ACTIVATION i mean that once it's activated i can remove Steam totally and just run it from the disc.)
    agree completely. If I could be able to activate and then delete steam forever I would most definitely accept this. And then it would really be a "one time activation". I'm under no illusion though, it's not going to happen. Steam would never let it happen.

  66. #1866
    Part-Timer
    Join Date
    15th February 2006
    Location
    Cardiff
    Posts
    1,172

    Default

    People are getting a bit confused has Miles said earlier SEGA came to them with options on activation, and SI and SEGA discussed each option, (unfourtunatly we haven't been told the other options) and after the discussions even though like Miles has said, he and others may not have like doing this but it was going to happen one way or the other and they felt that this was the best way. If SI turned around to SEGA and said no we are not doing this, I think SEGA has being the funders of SI would most probably started cutting back on budgets that SI has available or SEGA would have introduce an activation system where everytime we would want to play FM we would have to go to a website and entre a code everytime.

    I am not please with having to keep Steam on my computer and I will be peed off when Steam servers are down and it stops me playing FM12 but hay I'll play FM11 until they are back up and running, but it is better than having to manually log into a website and entre the code everytime.

    I know people are not going to agree with this because of strong feeling against Steam but to me my feelings for FM out way that.

  67. #1867
    First Team Squad Member
    Join Date
    4th April 2003
    Location
    Is finding it difficult to settle in the new forum. Is homesick. Is Unsettled.
    Posts
    15,755

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Keyzer Soze View Post
    But if we set steam as offline, we dont get affect by any kind of steam problem... right?
    Sadly, for this particular problem, it makes no difference if Steam is set to offline or not.

  68. #1868
    Amateur
    Join Date
    16th October 2004
    Location
    Lost... And also naked.. Do you know where i live?
    Posts
    710

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nessi View Post
    agree completely. If I could be able to activate and then delete steam forever I would most definitely accept this. And then it would really be a "one time activation". I'm under no illusion though, it's not going to happen. Steam would never let it happen.
    Exactly! I believe Si got to a point where they needed this online validation for piracy prevention reasons and with time running out they took the first deal that came along. Steam knowing this set the terms as such and in the process we get screwed.

  69. #1869
    Part-Timer
    Join Date
    16th December 2005
    Location
    The otherside of reality...
    Posts
    1,787

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Keyzer Soze View Post
    But if we set steam as offline, we dont get affect by any kind of steam problem... right?
    Personally, I've had very few problems with Steam but I have experienced a few odd things a couple of times. I've had Steam trying to connect to internet although I've chosen offline mode, thus not letting me load the game because it couldn't "log on" to my account or simply refusing me to go to offline mode as it couldn't "log on" to my account. It has also all of a sudden asked for my log in details and if you don't have internet connection you are going to have to wait untill you do...

    But again, I'm not saying this happens all the time - I just hope the sales in Moldova & Aserbajdsjan really pick up this time around so someone can say "I told you so..."

  70. #1870
    Amateur
    Join Date
    30th September 2004
    Posts
    13

    Default

    er... can someone who may sitting close to a 'law book' shed some light, if 'being forced ' to install steam infringes in some part of our consumer right....is there an 'Off-something' we can get the advice from.

  71. #1871
    Amateur
    Join Date
    16th June 2005
    Location
    lowerleaguemanager.com
    Posts
    633

    Default

    But Wakers, Steam is great, almost perfect even - so many satisfied users have repeatedly rammed this point home. How can you doubt the almighty Steam? Surely the issue must be your inability to follow instructions or maintain a computer appropriately.

    I hope all those suggesting they will boycott do so. I hope it genuinely harms sales of the game and makes SI and Sega accept that choice matters on issues like this.

    I don't care if this kind of system is touted as the future, or if download only sales are the next big thing. The fact is that they are not right for everyone, gaming as with almost every other aspect of life is not a one size fits all situation.

  72. #1872
    Semi Pro
    Join Date
    4th April 2009
    Location
    Sheffield
    Posts
    3,088

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by visvar View Post
    er... can someone who may sitting close to a 'law book' shed some light, if 'being forced ' to install steam infringes in some part of our consumer right....is there an 'Off-something' we can get the advice from.
    Since the version of FM which is released won't work without it, there is no argument against having it legally. From that viewpoint, Steam is about level with DirectX.

  73. #1873
    Amateur
    Join Date
    5th November 2008
    Posts
    75

    Default

    I've fired through these 18 or 19 pages and I'm fairly taken aback by the vehemence and vitriol being thrown about on this subject!

    I'm not fantastically familiar with Steam and I regard the news that I'll have to use it with a mild flicker of annoyance, akin to having to file through airport security despite having no criminal record and not the slightest inclination towards any kind of aerial indiscretion - that's not to say I won't ever use aeroplanes. That being said, I'm not here to throw in another analogy in the hope that this argument will disappear (as so far the lock, the secured shop door and other such metaphors haven't ended the disagreement).

    So here is my point. I remember a thread whereby we discussed the absolutely unparalleled value for money for FM. We pay, what, £35-45 for a PS3 game which will last around 8-12 hours by average modern standards. There will be the occasional game that'll take a couple of weeks of our time - like Gran Turismo or something - before we get fully satisfied and fulfilled. Now Football Manager 2012 is available on amazon.co.uk for £25. I'm going to take a stab and estimate that I'll have a number of saves a year which accumulate to significantly more than 200 hours of playing time. Can anyone tell me that the margin between value for money and not value for money is so fine that the tipping point rests solely on having to download a programme in order to combat the criminal misuse of a game that most of us treasure to an almost biblical extent? I think that the abuse that the SI-folk are taking on this is unfair and I'd like to congratulate them on:
    a) being in touch with us, even on a Sunday
    b) making a great game greater with every passing year

    Miles cites Direct X as the perfect example. I've been downloading that for years without questioning it. The difference is I don't have a DirectX Username and password. If you're concerned about details, use a screen-name and a dedicated hotmail account that you use for nothing else? I've seen anecdotes about difficulty running steam, all I can say is that in the past (when I had it on my compo for 2009) I didn't notice it running at all. The only thing that would send me back on a witch-hunt would be if we had the 2009 debacle where we bought a game and couldn't register it for days. Otherwise, I'm willing to give Steam a try. I know it's something of a pain, but I don't understand why it would be a dealbreaker to anyone who plays this game as much as I (and most regular posters on here) seem to.

    Honestly, how many people here are up in arms just to 'stick it to the man' or because they view SEGA as a corporate enemy? I know and appreciate some people have got a really well developed and justified opinion on this - like x42bn6 who has intelligently made his points and is clearly quite learned on the subject - though I don't agree with the "piracy-isn't-theft" argument if you consider copyright infringement to be the theft of intellectual property. I'm going to throw my lot in with SI/Sega on this one. I think even if the countermeasures are ultimately futile, something should be seen to being done about piracy. The hardcore pirate will never be discouraged, but a casual one might be swayed if they are exposed to consequences. Think of music downloads - how many people downloaded music illegally 5 years ago and now use Itunes and pay legally? That's surely because the casual-free-downloader had no perception of consequences at first until it was really clamped down on, but determined people will always be able to get free music off the internet. Aren't there parallels here?

  74. #1874
    Amateur
    Join Date
    11th November 2003
    Location
    Don't steal, the Government hates competition.
    Posts
    138

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by visvar View Post
    er... can someone who may sitting close to a 'law book' shed some light, if 'being forced ' to install steam infringes in some part of our consumer right....is there an 'Off-something' we can get the advice from.
    Seems like the only Off-something advice available is from SI, namely sod-Off and install Steam for a one time only activation but you have to keep it installed whether you like it or not, whether you hate Steam or not and sod you all if you won't do as we say.

    Pathetic decision from a once customer friendly company.

    My ten years of loyalty ends here.

  75. #1875
    Semi Pro
    Join Date
    4th April 2009
    Location
    Sheffield
    Posts
    3,088

    Default

    Popider. Excellently thoughtful post.

  76. #1876
    Amateur
    Join Date
    24th October 2007
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    522

    Default

    Those among us that are married (ie - me) fully appreciate Steam because we can continue buying games such as FM, and not have tell tale evidence such as video game boxes and discs littering the study!

  77. #1877
    Part-Timer
    Join Date
    10th November 2008
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,525

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eddymunster View Post
    I won't be buying this game if Steam is the only way to activate and therefore play the game. Firstly, Steam is poor. Secondly, on principal being forced to use it offends me as I feel the choice should be mine. I don't care how many benefits Steam has, or how much steam sales patter I hear from SEGA staff, this is a terrible decision.

    I would have never considered getting a pirated game, until now.
    i agree with you except about the piarated version infact i have just cancelled my pre-order for the game unless sega give us another option of activating it so if i don't like it i can sell it on i Won't be buying it
    sort it out sega

  78. #1878
    Amateur
    Join Date
    18th October 2006
    Location
    adelaide
    Posts
    376

    Default

    jptykes just as you and wakers have the right to post negative comments about steam on these forums so do the people who post positive comments about steam. Don't get it twisted.

  79. #1879
    Amateur
    Join Date
    16th August 2007
    Location
    Belgrade
    Posts
    226

    Default

    Can someone explain in short what's going on in this thread?

  80. #1880
    Amateur
    Join Date
    22nd November 2007
    Posts
    285

    Default

    I haven't posted since the first couple of pages but I still can't get my head around having to buy two copies for two people in my household! I understand that really myself playing via Steam and my brother using the disc isn't supposed to happen anyway as the game's license covers one person but its still ridiculous. I'd like to see an option similar to Norton Antivirus or something similar where you can use it on a certain amount of computers in your household? It won't happen though. End of the day we'll still end up buying two copies and will both be loving the game in a month or so and will probably forget about it but I still can't get my head around the customers being punished because of criminals.

  81. #1881
    Amateur
    Join Date
    5th November 2008
    Posts
    75

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Daddy Yankee View Post
    Can someone explain in short what's going on in this thread?
    When buying FM2012, you'll be required to register online on Steam - an independent program which supports other games etc - before you can play the game. SEGA are using it to combat piracy. The natives are restless at the inconvenience, the lack of trust and the potential for problems. Cue a 1900 post argument. Somewhere in page 17-19 Miles Jacobson makes his points in response to the whole thing.

  82. #1882
    Semi Pro
    Join Date
    4th April 2009
    Location
    Sheffield
    Posts
    3,088

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Daddy Yankee View Post
    Can someone explain in short what's going on in this thread?
    FM will only be able to work if you install and run Steam, an application which must be running whenever you wish to play FM. Following that is almost 2000 posts of discussions as to why this decision has been taken.

    For:
    Aims to reduce piracy [disputed]
    Is a simple and reliable application [disputed]
    Will help with game updates [disputed]

    Against:
    Is an invasive piece of software [disputed]
    Is a pointless complication [disputed]
    Steam is unreliable, [disputed] with poor customer support for when things do go wrong [less disputed]
    Relies on an internet connection to activate
    Uses excessive computer power [disputed]

    There's probably more that I've missed, but that's the general gist. General arguments as to how SI/Sega could make this decision, thus screwing over their loyal customers who don't wish to use Steam.

  83. #1883
    Amateur
    Join Date
    16th June 2005
    Location
    lowerleaguemanager.com
    Posts
    633

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by matthiele View Post
    jptykes just as you and wakers have the right to post negative comments about steam on these forums so do the people who post positive comments about steam. Don't get it twisted.
    I'm not getting anything twisted, I have no issue with anyone liking (or disliking) Steam. My problem comes from the Steam 'evangelists' who continually shout down people who have had bad experiences with Steam and accuse them of lying. Why would I lie? I gain nothing from it and I'm sure Wakers would gain nothing from it either.

    The fact is that Steam is far from infallible and to force it upon people in the manner SI/Sega have is poor imo.

  84. #1884
    Moderator
    Join Date
    2nd November 2009
    Posts
    5,871

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Popider View Post
    I've fired through these 18 or 19 pages and I'm fairly taken aback by the vehemence and vitriol being thrown about on this subject!

    I'm not fantastically familiar with Steam and I regard the news that I'll have to use it with a mild flicker of annoyance, akin to having to file through airport security despite having no criminal record and not the slightest inclination towards any kind of aerial indiscretion - that's not to say I won't ever use aeroplanes. That being said, I'm not here to throw in another analogy in the hope that this argument will disappear (as so far the lock, the secured shop door and other such metaphors haven't ended the disagreement).

    So here is my point. I remember a thread whereby we discussed the absolutely unparalleled value for money for FM. We pay, what, £35-45 for a PS3 game which will last around 8-12 hours by average modern standards. There will be the occasional game that'll take a couple of weeks of our time - like Gran Turismo or something - before we get fully satisfied and fulfilled. Now Football Manager 2012 is available on amazon.co.uk for £25. I'm going to take a stab and estimate that I'll have a number of saves a year which accumulate to significantly more than 200 hours of playing time. Can anyone tell me that the margin between value for money and not value for money is so fine that the tipping point rests solely on having to download a programme in order to combat the criminal misuse of a game that most of us treasure to an almost biblical extent? I think that the abuse that the SI-folk are taking on this is unfair and I'd like to congratulate them on:
    a) being in touch with us, even on a Sunday
    b) making a great game greater with every passing year

    Miles cites Direct X as the perfect example. I've been downloading that for years without questioning it. The difference is I don't have a DirectX Username and password. If you're concerned about details, use a screen-name and a dedicated hotmail account that you use for nothing else? I've seen anecdotes about difficulty running steam, all I can say is that in the past (when I had it on my compo for 2009) I didn't notice it running at all. The only thing that would send me back on a witch-hunt would be if we had the 2009 debacle where we bought a game and couldn't register it for days. Otherwise, I'm willing to give Steam a try. I know it's something of a pain, but I don't understand why it would be a dealbreaker to anyone who plays this game as much as I (and most regular posters on here) seem to.

    Honestly, how many people here are up in arms just to 'stick it to the man' or because they view SEGA as a corporate enemy? I know and appreciate some people have got a really well developed and justified opinion on this - like x42bn6 who has intelligently made his points and is clearly quite learned on the subject - though I don't agree with the "piracy-isn't-theft" argument if you consider copyright infringement to be the theft of intellectual property. I'm going to throw my lot in with SI/Sega on this one. I think even if the countermeasures are ultimately futile, something should be seen to being done about piracy. The hardcore pirate will never be discouraged, but a casual one might be swayed if they are exposed to consequences. Think of music downloads - how many people downloaded music illegally 5 years ago and now use Itunes and pay legally? That's surely because the casual-free-downloader had no perception of consequences at first until it was really clamped down on, but determined people will always be able to get free music off the internet. Aren't there parallels here?
    excellent post not been enough thought out responses from all sides during the 19 pages

  85. #1885
    Amateur
    Join Date
    30th October 2009
    Posts
    593

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by arsenalthebest View Post
    i agree with you except about the piarated version infact i have just cancelled my pre-order for the game unless sega give us another option of activating it so if i don't like it i can sell it on i Won't be buying it
    sort it out sega
    I won't get pirated version, was said in jest really, just regarding the fact that the only way to avoid steam is to get a pirate version.

  86. #1886
    Part-Timer
    Join Date
    15th February 2006
    Location
    Cardiff
    Posts
    1,172

    Default

    The good thing that will come out of this is SI will have a better understanding of the software and spec of the computers people are using because by being linked with Steam every customers computer spec will be retrieved.

    SI have said in the past that when it comes to updating the ME graphics and the AI inteligence they have to do it in line with the majorities computer spec. Thats why some people with high end spec sometimes feel disappointed that the improvements are not coming fast enough, and at the lower end on the budget side (I used to be one) would be pray that the next series of FM didn't require them to upgrade the graphics or the RAM, I think it was for FM09 I literally had to get a new computer so I made sure that it would last me a few long years of usage, but thats me.

    If this has a double knock on effect in the casual pirates buying the game and people with low end machines upgrade, then improvements in FM will be more substancial. SI and SEGA what ever people believe are only trying to safe gaurd the game so it can make it better for it customers. Every company can make mistakes but we wont know until release if this is a good or bad decision. Remember when Coke brought out a clear version or when Heinz brought out green kethcup. Even Apple buggered up with the Iphone where they had to give everyone a free case so the phone could keep its signal.

    So if the Steam servers end up not being able to cope with the extra numbers at the same time, which results in them being down all the time, don't you think SI will try and come up with a way to make us play the game. Or do you think they will just not care and say 'we thank you for you money'. SI cares about its customers and cares about the game, and SI have to find a balance between the 2 in giving us value for money by improving the game and trying protecting the game so it stays around for a long time.

  87. #1887
    Amateur
    Join Date
    7th February 2009
    Location
    Rosario, Argentina - Newell's Old Boys supporter!
    Posts
    209

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David - SEGA View Post
    We can assure you that this measure has been taken to combat piracy. Like other solutions nothing is 100% effective, but this is the reason for required activation this year.
    Yeah, combat piracy from ordinary people but build a monopoly for you, Steam, and others TOP companies, uh?

  88. #1888
    Part-Timer
    Join Date
    17th May 2007
    Location
    In galaxy far, far away...
    Posts
    1,756

    Default

    I for one will not be buying FM12, there is three reasons for that.

    Firstly because to only Steam approach, because due to piracy. To be fair whoever says that, is being unprofessional, because you don't see what others see, games being release days before the actual game being released despite whatever protections they release. And making users have little choice compared to the pirate versions, will not, in the next millenium, stop piracy. Nor do I know the solution of the problem, because i believe there isn't one. Hackers in general are very well determined and motivated people and Steam or no Stean, or DRM or no DRM protection will stop them.

    Secondly, a lot of games today for PC or Mac use internet activation thing. Hell, I download many Mac games my brother's Mac using App Store, I don't complain, why? Because once I close down the App Store, I can directly play from MAC OSX. Which I believe for FM is very reliable alternative from Steam, for Mac users. Also once you have an update it signals you in App Store, you can choose either to update it or not. If Steam was like that for the PC, then I would have any trouble of using it.

    Thirdly, and this is the most important reason, I find the game too boring, stressed, suffers from Information Overload (basically too much information to my liking and it makes me unable to make any quick or decisive decisions) and looks like actual job. There is no fun, no fantasy or just one more match feel to it. In FM11 I barely pass two matches in one session after giving up the game, because the game is too slow between matches. I don't know, no matter how much innovation or new features is putted in the game, none in my humble opinion surpass the greatness, fun, quickness and simplicity of FM07.

    So for me, I believe going to the only Steam option because of piracy, is a wrong decision, because that won't make pirates to loose their sleep just because of that, but hey I understand your choice.

    PS: There is only one and one reason, so many users choose for FM11 to registered through Steam: the no-cd on your dvd/cd-driver requirement.

  89. #1889
    Semi Pro
    Join Date
    7th July 2010
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    2,490

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Popider View Post
    I've fired through these 18 or 19 pages and I'm fairly taken aback by the vehemence and vitriol being thrown about on this subject!

    I'm not fantastically familiar with Steam and I regard the news that I'll have to use it with a mild flicker of annoyance, akin to having to file through airport security despite having no criminal record and not the slightest inclination towards any kind of aerial indiscretion - that's not to say I won't ever use aeroplanes. That being said, I'm not here to throw in another analogy in the hope that this argument will disappear (as so far the lock, the secured shop door and other such metaphors haven't ended the disagreement).

    So here is my point. I remember a thread whereby we discussed the absolutely unparalleled value for money for FM. We pay, what, £35-45 for a PS3 game which will last around 8-12 hours by average modern standards. There will be the occasional game that'll take a couple of weeks of our time - like Gran Turismo or something - before we get fully satisfied and fulfilled. Now Football Manager 2012 is available on amazon.co.uk for £25. I'm going to take a stab and estimate that I'll have a number of saves a year which accumulate to significantly more than 200 hours of playing time. Can anyone tell me that the margin between value for money and not value for money is so fine that the tipping point rests solely on having to download a programme in order to combat the criminal misuse of a game that most of us treasure to an almost biblical extent? I think that the abuse that the SI-folk are taking on this is unfair and I'd like to congratulate them on:
    a) being in touch with us, even on a Sunday
    b) making a great game greater with every passing year

    Miles cites Direct X as the perfect example. I've been downloading that for years without questioning it. The difference is I don't have a DirectX Username and password. If you're concerned about details, use a screen-name and a dedicated hotmail account that you use for nothing else? I've seen anecdotes about difficulty running steam, all I can say is that in the past (when I had it on my compo for 2009) I didn't notice it running at all. The only thing that would send me back on a witch-hunt would be if we had the 2009 debacle where we bought a game and couldn't register it for days. Otherwise, I'm willing to give Steam a try. I know it's something of a pain, but I don't understand why it would be a dealbreaker to anyone who plays this game as much as I (and most regular posters on here) seem to.

    Honestly, how many people here are up in arms just to 'stick it to the man' or because they view SEGA as a corporate enemy? I know and appreciate some people have got a really well developed and justified opinion on this - like x42bn6 who has intelligently made his points and is clearly quite learned on the subject - though I don't agree with the "piracy-isn't-theft" argument if you consider copyright infringement to be the theft of intellectual property. I'm going to throw my lot in with SI/Sega on this one. I think even if the countermeasures are ultimately futile, something should be seen to being done about piracy. The hardcore pirate will never be discouraged, but a casual one might be swayed if they are exposed to consequences. Think of music downloads - how many people downloaded music illegally 5 years ago and now use Itunes and pay legally? That's surely because the casual-free-downloader had no perception of consequences at first until it was really clamped down on, but determined people will always be able to get free music off the internet. Aren't there parallels here?
    Quote Originally Posted by tom_numbers View Post
    Popider. Excellently thoughtful post.
    Quote Originally Posted by themadsheep2001 View Post
    excellent post not been enough thought out responses from all sides during the 19 pages
    Popider, any thought given to this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miles Jacobson View Post
    People have also asked "what about those who don't have an internet connection". When we had activation for FM2009 which was done both online and via telephone, less than 4% of people, globally, chose to use the telephone route. Some of these people had a net connection, but didn't want to authenticate that way (as per the huge threads at that time). So, again whilst it's disappointing that some people genuinely don't have a net connection and might miss out, this was taken into account with the overall decision, and there wasn't an option presented to me by SEGA this year that didn't involve purely online activation.

  90. #1890
    Moderator
    Join Date
    2nd November 2009
    Posts
    5,871

    Default

    Not sure why you quoted me?

  91. #1891
    Moderator
    Join Date
    28th April 2005
    Location
    Mankind is the only creature smart enough to know its own history, and dumb enough to ignore it.
    Posts
    28,343

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by themadsheep2001 View Post
    Not sure why you quoted me?
    I'd guess he's accusing you of sleeping with the enemy

  92. #1892
    Part-Timer
    Join Date
    15th February 2006
    Location
    Cardiff
    Posts
    1,172

    Default

    lol Kriss this thread is starting to quiet down now. I wonder how many of the 'I wont buy FM12' will be praising the blog today

  93. #1893
    Moderator
    Join Date
    28th April 2005
    Location
    Mankind is the only creature smart enough to know its own history, and dumb enough to ignore it.
    Posts
    28,343

    Default

    I'm sure some are just venting their spleen just as happened on the Civ forums when they did it, I was no different when told I must wear a seat belt (in spite of the fact I did anyway) there's a natural aversion to being told you must do something.

    I hope they eventually overcome that and get the game they love and I also hope that Steam support them properly, because while it's been phenomally good for me I can imagine how enraging it would be if it wasn't so.

  94. #1894
    Moderator
    Join Date
    2nd November 2009
    Posts
    5,871

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kriss View Post
    I'd guess he's accusing you of sleeping with the enemy
    Haha, I'm neither a lover or hater of Steam, i merely view it the same way i view any other good piece of software on my laptop. First used it for FM10 (because i was too hungover at uni to buy the game from the store ) and just kind of stuck with it for games. While i do have concern for those who may have genuine issues with internet connection and the like, think there has been a tremendous amount of fuss over relatively little. Though you make a good point with the seatbelt example, i remember muttering darkly for a while everytime i put one on in a coach...

    Hopefully it will be a success come activation and everyone will soon be happily complaining about something or other in the game itself instead

  95. #1895
    Amateur
    Join Date
    26th March 2004
    Posts
    186

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tom_numbers View Post
    FM will only be able to work if you install and run Steam, an application which must be running whenever you wish to play FM. Following that is almost 2000 posts of discussions as to why this decision has been taken.

    For:
    Aims to reduce piracy [disputed]
    Is a simple and reliable application [disputed]
    Will help with game updates [disputed]

    Against:
    Is an invasive piece of software [disputed]
    Is a pointless complication [disputed]
    Steam is unreliable, [disputed] with poor customer support for when things do go wrong [less disputed]
    Relies on an internet connection to activate
    Uses excessive computer power [disputed]

    There's probably more that I've missed, but that's the general gist. General arguments as to how SI/Sega could make this decision, thus screwing over their loyal customers who don't wish to use Steam.
    Plus, it is possible that people in some countries, such as Germany, might no longer be able to play the game, as it cannot be marketed over here, so Steam might block German IP-Addresses. This, though, is being looked into.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Welsh Lad View Post
    lol Kriss this thread is starting to quiet down now. I wonder how many of the 'I wont buy FM12' will be praising the blog today
    That's irrelevant in my opinion. The last blog on youth acadamies etc. really whet my appetite for the game, but this announcement brought the whole thing tumbling down again.

  96. #1896
    Part-Timer
    Join Date
    15th February 2006
    Location
    Cardiff
    Posts
    1,172

    Default

    edwin, I sympathise with the people that have technical issues such has no internet etc. A few remarks on here I feel were made in haste in frustration and they will most prob buy FM12. Has for you question about Germany it has been mentioned by Miles that SEGA are looking into it regarding countries that may have problems and they will get back to everyone when they have an answer whether it be good or bad, but hopefully good.

  97. #1897
    First Team Squad Member
    Join Date
    4th April 2003
    Location
    Is finding it difficult to settle in the new forum. Is homesick. Is Unsettled.
    Posts
    15,755

    Default

    Did those other people who were having problem playing games in Steam last night have any success?

    I've just tried it again this morning (not that I'll have time now until the weekend again) and it still says all of my games are unavailable. I've just gone through all of the standard troubleshooting tips for each game and can't get any of them to work at this moment.

    Not pleased.

  98. #1898
    Part-Timer
    Join Date
    15th February 2006
    Location
    Cardiff
    Posts
    1,172

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wakers View Post
    Did those other people who were having problem playing games in Steam last night have any success?

    I've just tried it again this morning (not that I'll have time now until the weekend again) and it still says all of my games are unavailable. I've just gone through all of the standard troubleshooting tips for each game and can't get any of them to work at this moment.

    Not pleased.
    I don't know Wakers but if this happens with FM there will be rucksions (???? spelling) on here

  99. #1899
    Semi Pro
    Join Date
    24th November 2005
    Location
    1 year, 2 trophies. 3 more in 4 years - what dya reckon?
    Posts
    3,812

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyPass View Post
    Those among us that are married (ie - me) fully appreciate Steam because we can continue buying games such as FM, and not have tell tale evidence such as video game boxes and discs littering the study!
    As an alternative view, my partner hates Steam, it added about 60 seconds to every log on / start up routine before we unistalled it and all was better again. She uses Big Fish, Play First and other games download utilities (not exactly the same thing I know) but they dont cause any noticable issues, not like Steam.

  100. #1900
    Amateur
    Join Date
    8th June 2010
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by asdpoo View Post
    I'm not against the this move as I stopped using disks for anything ages ago.

    But the reasoning you will combat piracy is absolutely ridiculous. Every single "steam protected" game has been cracked.
    Whoever used pirated games before will go to the same place to get their new copy and wouldn't care less if you changed the protection. So effectively I don't see how somebody who pirated the games before won't do it now. To really change this you have two options:
    1. Use a copy protection which hasn't been cracked. I know one and it would probably cause even bigger outrage.
    2. Ask why people are pirating - they are either too lazy to get to the store (digital distribution) or can't afford the game (lower price).
    Publishers really had a chance to kill two birds with one stone using digital distribution, but they opted for keeping there even higher prices than the brick and mortar stores, which is financially illogical.

    You can reason that Steam is cool and bringing a lot of convenience, but combating piracy? Don't insult our intelligence.

    The only thing you are achieving is annoying people who hate change and ultimately they may opt for the pirated version, which won't require any pesky activation. I'm saying you could have marketed this decision better.
    Great Post

    I'm glad someone has said it

Closed Thread
Page 19 of 42 FirstFirst ... 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts