A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation

[Dune297]

ok, a couple of questions:

1) I buy the game, disc version, and install it on my PC. I need then to install Steam and activate the game. After this, can i let steam offline forever?

2) Every time i want to play FM, do i need to run steam first? Or i just need to double-clik my FM shortcut has i currently do?

3) When a patch is released, can i download it from SI website and install it manually as i currently do?

4) Am i obliged to patch the game? Or can i play the game with the first version, even after the release of 1 or 2 patches?

5) Where my FM save games are located? In my PC or in some server?

6) Can i still use programs like FMRTE or Fmscout if i want? And what about custom graphics?

Thks in advance to any repplys! And by the way, i think it would be great if a post were made answering this kind of questions! for me this is the important stuff!

1. Yes, you can keep Steam on offline forever.
2. You can double click your FM shortcut as you normally do. That will open Steam and then open FM. Don't worry, the actual Steam store won't open.
3. When a patch is released you just have to find somewhere with internet, turn on Steam, and let Steam download the patch which normally will take a few moments.
4. You are not obliged to patch the game as long as you keep it offline.
5. Savegames are located in the same place as non-Steam FM. Documents -> Sports Interactive -> Football Manager 2011 -> Games.
6. You can use mods, FMRTE, and FMScout. I have FM on Steam and use all three.

[Ackter]

Straw man argument, as others have said. In all those, you have a choice. Not only that, but they are all actually needed. The OS is needed to allow you to interact with hardware, a browser is needed to interact with html and other web code, and a word processor is needed (unless notepad suffices) for you to make a document.

Steam is not needed to play a game - it is not the only way possible for a game to run on a computer, in the same way that it is only possible to view webpages in a browser of some description. Stop using those "arguments" because they don't wash.

Forcing people to use Steam is just poor. No one should be forced to do anything if they want to play a game, or run any software, or listen to some music.

Steam is needed to play this game in the same way Uniloc and SecuROM were needed to play others.

[Keyzer Soze]

Thank you very much Dune297 and Ackter!

So basically everything stays the same, taking the activation done when we install the game! I was afraid that these changes force it to change the way I play the game, which is not the case, and that, to me, is the most important thing!

Great news! bring on the game!

[milnerpoint]

Thank you very much Dune297 and Ackter!

So basically everything stays the same, taking the activation done when we install the game! I was afraid that these changes force it to change the way I play the game, which is not the case, and that, to me, is the most important thing!

Great news! bring on the game!

the only change is you will have steam running at the same time, the game plays the same way all the 3rd party tools work the same way, the games save in the same place, you wont really notice the change.

[Ackter]

the only change is you will have steam running at the same time, the game plays the same way all the 3rd party tools work the same way, the games save in the same place, you wont really notice the change.

The only difference is that it'll take about 5 seconds extra to load the game as it loads Steam first.

[Dune297]

Thank you very much Dune297 and Ackter!

So basically everything stays the same, taking the activation done when we install the game! I was afraid that these changes force it to change the way I play the game, which is not the case, and that, to me, is the most important thing!

Great news! bring on the game!

No problem . Glad to be of service.

[milnerpoint]

i posted it last night but it takes my new computer 15 seconds from clicking the FM icon to the game starting, i tried it on my flat mates this afternoon it is 18 months older and not near as good as my new one and it took 22 seconds. it used to take my old computers much longer to boot from cd.

[Keyzer Soze]

the only change is you will have steam running at the same time, the game plays the same way all the 3rd party tools work the same way, the games save in the same place, you wont really notice the change.

just out of curiosity, if I'm playing the game with the disk version, and I chose to put steam offline, why it opens whenever I play the game? Technically I do not see the need to open it, since I'm playing offline.

Is this the reason why people get so mad about steam?

[RBKalle]

It's really hard for me -- and everyone at SI, I imagine -- to get my head around the fevered response to this.

It's like hearing people complain that to keep watching a boxset of their favourite show they're going to need a DVD player to put the discs in.

Only in this case the DVD player is free and also gives blowjobs.

No...

To reuse your analogy, It's like having to join the show's official fanclub to get to watch the DVDs and then having to keep the DVD player ON 24/7 even if you're not watching that boxset, and even if you're not watching a damn thing...


I pay for the game, I demand to be able to play it where I want, when I want without having to provide my data to a third-part company in order to download third-part software I'll be FORCED to run in the background whenever I want to play my game.


As already explained by other members, pirate groups and "serial downloaders" will still get their cured copy of FM2012 in no time... and the saddest part is the pirated copy will probably be EASIER TO LAUNCH than the original version paying customers will have to deal with!


The decision to use Steam-only activation is debatable and the notion of it being a great anti-piracy method is either incredibly naive or a laughable lie.


Let's just say "it was good business for us, period"... it's more honest.

[The Welsh Lad]

I think its time this thread should be closed.

This debate will keep going for weeks. There are 2 strong feelings regarding this;
1.) Those who have has no ill effect using steam. (It getting annoying hearing how great it is)
2.) Those who have had issuse with steam. (Its getting annoying hearing how much they hate it)

I sypathise with those who wouldn't mind installing steam to activate the game, but have problems wether it be Internet Connection or computer issues, because they want to play the game and it is frustrating for them becuase they are going to miss out. I have not had dealings with steam so I can't make judgement until I download it for FM12.

If for what ever reason For what ver reason theis link with Steam doesn't work to the desired effect, don't you think SI and SEGA will hold their hands up and say well we got it wrong, we wont be doing that again. Whilst I am disappointed they have choosen to go down this road, I understand the reasons why even though they may seem flimsy to some. If you were selling something and that product, software whatever was your source of income and someone was coping it and using it for nothing taking away possible income for you and your famly, you would try and do something to combat it. The choice you make may end up being the best choice and sales increase, meaning more money for your family but it could be the wrong choice and you may lose some sales becuase you have stopped some people from getting your product and there are still people copying your product. You then have to go back to the drawning board so to speak and think of another way to combat it.

Whilst people are saying they are 'loyal' to FM but now are not going to buy the game because of this decision, I don't think that is loyalty in my opinion, loyalty in my opinion would be supporting SI in the decisions they make in hope that it will help improve income to create a bigger budget for development to the game they love and are loyal to. SI have got things wrong in the past and have held their hands up and change it.

Now with Steam in the mix, its like catching a bus to work, if outside your house 2 buses stop there that will get you to work but there in different directions a number 7 and a number 8, if you go to catch the number 8 and for 3 days it has let you down by getting you to work late, you know to catch the number 7. But if the Number 8 didn't let you down there wouldn't be a problem.

So if you never had a problem with the Number 8 but hear people saying that its a bad service, you would argue its not. But if you had problems with the NUmber 8 and hear people say its a great service then you would argue its not. All it comes down to is peoples opinions. Now at the time I've wrote this there are 1,282 posts, so I think its time to endthe bickering and the debate on wether or not it is right to do this or wether or not Steam is a good service. There is nothig that can be done now to stop this from happening.

I'm going to end now, I know the examples are not brilliant but hey its an example, I reiterate I feel sorry for the ones that want to buy the game but can't becuase of technical issues not personal ones.

[cms186]

No...

To reuse your analogy, It's like having join the show's official fanclub to get to watch the DVDs and the having to keep the DVD player ON 24/7 even if you're not watching that boxset, and even if you're not watching a damn thing...


I pay the game, I demand to be able to play it where I want, when I want without having to provide my data to a third-part company in order to download third-part software I'll be FORCED to run in the background whenever I want to play my game.


As already explained by other members, pirate groups and "serial downloaders" will still get their cured copy of FM2012 in no time... and the saddest part is the pirated copy will probably be EASIER TO LAUNCH than the original version paying customers will have to deal with!


The decision to use Steam-only activation is debatable and the notion of it being a great anti-piracy method is either incredibly naive or a laughable lie.


Let's just say "it was good business for us, period"... it's more honest.

you dont pay for the game, you pay for a license to use it, you can demand all you like, but it wont make a difference, if you want to play the game, you'll have to use steam, get over it

[Ackter]

I think its time this thread should be closed.

I reckon the thread needs to remain open simply because some people will be posting in here just to get more information about how it works - and we need to be around to help them get their answers.

[Dune297]

just out of curiosity, if I'm playing the game with the disk version, and I chose to put steam offline, why it opens whenever I play the game? Technically I do not see the need to open it, since I'm playing offline.

Is this the reason why people get so mad about steam?

The actual Steam window won't open. It's simply the program which takes a few resources. I just tested it and it took me approximately 7.5 seconds to open Football Manager 11 in offline mode with Steam not already open. It really won't effect you, you will hardly notice it.

[Kriss]

It would be a wonderful idea to get a bod from Steam on the boards, especially as roll out gets closer, don't know if that's possible though.

[PES-Dude]

Am I right in thinking that this is a Steamworks game and thus all sites that offer the game as a digital download will sell codes to be redeemed on Steam? I am looking at ordering the digital download from Shopto.net for £19.85 because the price on Steam is £29.99.

[Indi75]

FM once launched can be pinned to Windows 7 taskbar.... despite using steam for many of my PC based games now I seldom see steam unless manually looking for weekend deals or clocking from Facebook or Twitter that there's a sale on.

[Dune297]

Am I right in thinking that this is a Steamworks game and thus all sites that offer the game as a digital download will sell codes to be redeemed on Steam? I am looking at ordering the digital download from Shopto.net for £19.85 because the price on Steam is £29.99.

Yeah, it probably will say something like "This game requires Steam™ in order to install and run and so cannot be traded or refunded" in the near future. Buy it from the cheapest place you can find it.

[milnerpoint]

just out of curiosity, if I'm playing the game with the disk version, and I chose to put steam offline, why it opens whenever I play the game? Technically I do not see the need to open it, since I'm playing offline.

Is this the reason why people get so mad about steam?

Because the DRM is not on the CD, the game is on the CD but the DRM is steam, so to unlock the game as much steam needs to authenticate it each time, i dont fully know the workings of steam but i would imagine when you set it up in offline mode it stores your license for the game on your computer, which it authenticates when you turn it start it up, this will be something only steam can read. Think of it as when you start steam you activate your license, if at any point steam closes your license for the game also shuts down.
I wish i fully understood the hate from what i can see people dont want to be forced to install a 3rd party tool even tho they will accept it at other times, the resource thing for PC users is completely irrelevent i think, mac's im not so sure.

[The Welsh Lad]

I reckon the thread needs to remain open simply because some people will be posting in here just to get more information about how it works - and we need to be around to help them get their answers.

Well then a new thread should be opened for questions not this continuing endless debate

[Matt_no_7]

What i seriously can't understand from the Pro-Steam side is the fact that they cannot, for whatever reason, simply understand that some people DON'T want to install Steam. I'm not gonna sit here and say "If your all for Steam then you are an utter ****** who should be caged and sold to circus for your utter stupidity to entertain the masses for the simple charge of 50p!".... seriously, i'm not. I have nothing against Steam at all, i don't believe for one second it will kill my computer due to it having murderous intent nor do i believe it's SkyNet in disguise ready to nuke to planet as soon as we all download it or that it is some sort of evil goblin waiting under a bridge..... I simply don't want it.

I've used Steam before and just didn't like it while i'm sure at the very same time someone installed and really did like it. You can point out facts and tell me that it's good but i don't care....

I
DON'T
WANT
IT
!!!

The more you try to force someone into something they don't want the more they will fight it and fight it. It's been said before in posts above that this will probably increase piracy and i fully agree because there are alot of people who don't want it, some won't buy it at all, some will buy it and find a way to work around Steam and why are they now turning to piracy? Because Si put them in that position.

Would they have turned to piracy if Si had left it the way it was?

No because they had no need to. Reguardless of what you do, short of having a cop in every single home on the face of the planet you will NEVER stop piracy. I'm against piracy 100% but i can see this will just create more pirates.

[Dune297]

What i seriously can't understand from the Pro-Steam side is the fact that they cannot, for whatever reason, simply understand that some people DON'T want to install Steam. I'm not gonna sit here and say "If your all for Steam then you are an utter ****** who should be caged and sold to circus for your utter stupidity to entertain the masses for the simple charge of 50p!".... seriously, i'm not. I have nothing against Steam at all, i don't believe for one second it will kill my computer due to it having murderous intent nor do i believe it's SkyNet in disguise ready to nuke to planet as soon as we all download it or that it is some sort of evil goblin waiting under a bridge..... I simply don't want it.

The fact is you won't even have to deal with Steam besides the ONE time you install it and open it for FM12. What was your reason for not liking it by the way?

[MarchinOn2Getha]

I've tried to read all the posts. I have never used Steam before and although I see some benefit in this I am just a little worried. I have a pretty old laptop now, and I have no funds really to upgrade. My question is will Steam make my computer run slower when I play FM12 than it does now when I play FM11.

Also, can you play an online game of FM between friends using Steam (therefore meaning I don't need Hamachi anymore?)

Hope someone can help me with my questions.

Thanks in advance.

[SCIAG]

The only difference is that it'll take about 5 seconds extra to load the game as it loads Steam first.

It just took me 80 seconds to load Steam and flick to the "Library" page.

However, that was with a Steam update downloaded. Whilst these happen quite regularly, I've noticed, they don't happen every time I want to play FM. Remove the update and knock off 55 seconds. FM's current loading time is about, oo, three minutes? An extra 25 seconds is a fairly hefty increase.

[Ackter]

It just took me 80 seconds to load Steam and flick to the "Library" page.

However, that was with a Steam update downloaded. Whilst these happen quite regularly, I've noticed, they don't happen every time I want to play FM. Remove the update and knock off 55 seconds. FM's current loading time is about, oo, three minutes? An extra 25 seconds is a fairly hefty increase.

That won't happen in offline mode.

[Dune297]

It just took me 80 seconds to load Steam and flick to the "Library" page.

However, that was with a Steam update downloaded. Whilst these happen quite regularly, I've noticed, they don't happen every time I want to play FM. Remove the update and knock off 55 seconds. FM's current loading time is about, oo, three minutes? An extra 25 seconds is a fairly hefty increase.

You won't have to flick to the library page. If you keep it in offline mode, just simply hit the Football Manager 2011 icon, and you'll be good to go. It took me about 7.5 seconds to open FM11 when I tested it this way, although I use Steam for all my games so I keep it online and whatnot.

[themadsheep2001]

I've tried to read all the posts. I have never used Steam before and although I see some benefit in this I am just a little worried. I have a pretty old laptop now, and I have no funds really to upgrade. My question is will Steam make my computer run slower when I play FM12 than it does now when I play FM11.

Also, can you play an online game of FM between friends using Steam (therefore meaning I don't need Hamachi anymore?)

Hope someone can help me with my questions.

Thanks in advance.

To answer your bold, it might take a few seconds longer to start up , but it wont make your computer run slower while playing the game.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

The activation ( if you buy the disc ) takes about 5 seconds, even if you have an unstable connection, will take very little time

What about the acquisition of Steam? FM updates? Steam updates?

Valve is a massive company, they arent going to go bust anytime soon

And you know this how?

All news will bring reactions, a few people are unhappy about this, fine, but if you have a decent internet connection, there is nothing to be angry about, even if you dont have one, you could go to a hotspot ( if you have a laptop ), get a wireless dongle, tether their phone or even take your computer round a friends/relatives who do have internet access. The only people who should be angry about this are those who have literally no access to the internet afer the methods ive listed above, it would be interesting to know how many of them there are, of course, they wont be reading this though

Would you also be interested to know where they are? You are assuming a lot when you say that people without internet access won't be reading this! Friends, family, school, work, etc etc.

Its nothing to do with principles, its all aboiut being stubborn, pig-headed and being unable to accept change, ok, i accept some people may have had a bad experience with steam a few years ago, Steam has changed since then. You arent being forced to install something against your will, dont buy the game, the only one losing out is you. I imagine MOST people will be perfectly happy/ambivalent about this change, mainly because there is no actual problem ( unless as mentioned above, you literally have no internet access )



You are just 1 person ( not the majority i mentioned ), if you are literally too stubborn/lazy to go to a bit of effort to be able to play a game or buy a car, then your stubborness/laziness is only going to cost one person, you.

You clearly don't accept this or you haven't read the thread properly, because you are calling someone, "too stubborn/lazy to go to a bit of effort", who posted earlier that he had had a bad experience with Steam in the past.

Despite the username, I am not pig-headed, and you will need to clarify what the change is that I am unable to accept, for me to comment.

I have never had a problem with Steam and I am unlikely to ever have one as I will not be using Steam for anything.

Separate to that, on Principle I will not be forced to download and run any third party programme. If that equates to stubbornness and laziness in your mind then so be it.
It will cost me, but I believe it will also cost SI/Sega one purchase price of FM12. Not able to play a game versus Principles, no contest.

[RBKalle]

you dont pay for the game, you pay for a license to use it, you can demand all you like, but it wont make a difference, if you want to play the game, you'll have to use steam, get over it

With the boxed copy, I pay/paid for the game itself...


The license thing is just more BS... The whole digital media thing is a complete rip-off, especially if I'm going to pay the license as much, or more, than the actual copy...

Paying a ticket to watch a movie at the theater ONCE doesn't and shouldn't cost me as much as the DVD or the Blue-ray release...


Anyway, fine... I'm not going to buy FM2012 because I don't want to register on Steam and don't want to have Steam running on my pc every time I want to play MY COPY of the game...

If I wanted to install and run Steam, I'd have bought the (license of the) game on Steam this year too...


Is it so difficult to understand it's a matter of principle for many of us, rather than a matter of technical limitations?


Would you be equally supportive if you'd have to set up a Google account, install and keep Google Chrome running every time you wanted to use Google Maps or Google Earth?!


Basically we can't play FM without Steam. And no, it's not like having to install DirectX or something similar... There are no technical reasons behind that decision, just financial/political ones.

Something I'm not going to knuckle under to. And I sincerely hope it'll be many of us.

[MarchinOn2Getha]

To answer your bold, it might take a few seconds longer to start up , but it wont make your computer run slower while playing the game.

Thanks mate, you have put my mind at rest.

Still would be interesting to find out about the online link games.

[Ackter]

No - every game (and piece of software) you've bought, regardless of the format you've bought it on, has actually been the purchase of the license to use it.

[Ackter]

Thanks mate, you have put my mind at rest.

Still would be interesting to find out about the online link games.

You can definitely play online with Steam, but I have no idea if you need that other program or not as I've never done it.

[Scab]

I have a pretty old laptop now, and I have no funds really to upgrade. My question is will Steam make my computer run slower when I play FM12 than it does now when I play FM11.

Also, can you play an online game of FM between friends using Steam (therefore meaning I don't need Hamachi anymore?)

What are the specs of your laptop?

Steam does not affect how multiplayer works, unless SI has introduced something special and new for FM12.

[Dune297]

What about the acquisition of Steam? FM updates? Steam updates?

He is just talking about the start-up time in that case.

And you know this how?

Because the company is one of the richest in the gaming industry. It's simply not going to happen.

You clearly don't accept this or you haven't read the thread properly, because you are calling someone, "too stubborn/lazy to go to a bit of effort", who posted earlier that he had had a bad experience with Steam in the past.

Despite the username, I am not pig-headed, and you will need to clarify what the change is that I am unable to accept, for me to comment.

I have never had a problem with Steam and I am unlikely to ever have one as I will not be using Steam for anything.

Separate to that, on Principle I will not be forced to download and run any third party programme. If that equates to stubbornness and laziness in your mind then so be it.
It will cost me, but I believe it will also cost SI/Sega one purchase price of FM12. Not able to play a game versus Principles, no contest.

You have never had a problem with it and you are bashing it like this? At least give it a try before all the negative comments.

[edwingray]

Steam is needed to play this game in the same way Uniloc and SecuROM were needed to play others.

This is the crux of the matter for me, as I had absolutely no problems with the Uniloc method (though I know others had massive problems), but Uniloc didn't involve installing third party software (I believe).

Why not offer both options?

[Ackter]

This is the crux of the matter for me, as I had absolutely no problems with the Uniloc method (though I know others had massive problems), but Uniloc didn't involve installing third party software (I believe).

Why not offer both options?

Uniloc folded (and I hate SecuROM with a passion) - SI believe this is the best option for combating piracy.

[Snaus]

I am still not 100% clear on this (sorry ), but if you install Steam on your computer to use it to activate the game, can you then afterwards not simply uninstall Steam again?

Is there a function in the Steam software on your computer that each time verifies that you have an activated game, or does it make an internet connection to Steam to do that? Because if you can play the game offline than that would mean you won't need Steam for the latter. And if it's a software function in Steam locally, can't that be put into the installed game instead?

I don't mind using Steam on my home PC as I do now (I actually like some of it's aspects). But I'd rather not have Steam installed on other computers like at family or friends.

[Ackter]

I am still not 100% clear on this (sorry ), but if you install Steam on your computer to use it to activate the game, can you then afterwards not simply uninstall Steam again?

Is there a function in the Steam software on your computer that each time verifies that you have an activated game, or does it make an internet connection to Steam to do that? Because if you can play the game offline than that would mean you won't need Steam for the latter. And if it's a software function in Steam locally, can't that be put into the installed game instead?

I don't mind using Steam on my home PC as I do now (I actually like some of it's aspects). But I'd rather not have Steam installed on other computers like at family or friends.

No, you can't uninstall Steam if you want to continue playing the game. Steam authenticates if you have the license when you load up the game.

[tlm_77]

I hate this decision by SI because you are FORCING us to download a programe which I (and many others) do not want to download.

I'm sorry, but this is not the answer to piracy.

I'll still buy the game as I have done every single year but decisions like this do not make me feel valued at all.
You've had plenty of time to think of other ways to make the game less likely to be a target for piracy.

SI, whenever you take away people's freedom to have what they want on their PC, you make people angry - simple.

[Dune297]

I am still not 100% clear on this (sorry ), but if you install Steam on your computer to use it to activate the game, can you then afterwards not simply uninstall Steam again?

Is there a function in the Steam software on your computer that each time verifies that you have an activated game, or does it make an internet connection to Steam to do that? Because if you can play the game offline than that would mean you won't need Steam for the latter. And if it's a software function in Steam locally, can't that be put into the installed game instead?

I don't mind using Steam on my home PC as I do now (I actually like some of it's aspects). But I'd rather not have Steam installed on other computers like at family or friends.

You can't uninstall Steam if you want to play FM, simple as that.

[Dune297]

I hate this decision by SI because you are FORCING us to download a programe which I (and many others) do not want to download.

I'm sorry, but this is not the answer to piracy.

I'll still buy the game as I have done every single year but decisions like this do not make me feel valued at all.
You've had plenty of time to think of other ways to make the game less likely to be a target for piracy.

SI, whenever you take away people's freedom to have what they want on their PC, you make people angry - simple.

And what's your reason for not giving it a shot? How do you know it's not a great program that you'll find useful?

[PES-Dude]

I personally don't mind the Steam thing. Call me selfish I don't care, but I have access to the Internet and I don't mind activating the game through a program I already use anyway. It's not malicious so I'm quite happy. I guarantee that some of the naysayers will berate Steam and say they are furious with SI then will end up buying the game anyway.

[Snaus]

No, you can't uninstall Steam if you want to continue playing the game. Steam authenticates if you have the license when you load up the game.

And I guess that is done locally between the Steam software and the game? I.e. it won't check it online? As per the examples that you can play offline whenever you don't have a connection?

[pigfacemonkeyman]

People who've had problems with Steam in the past would obviously be concerned, although I believe it's improved enormously over the last couple of years and has never given me any problems.

Those who haven't even used it should really try before they call it a tool of the devil.

Those who refuse because it's third party software are making an irrational stand, nothing much on their PC would work without third party software so the only realistic objection can be that it affects performance or detracts from security, I don't believe it does either.

And you have a blinkered view. If you can get past the fact that, for some people, it is nothing to do with it being Steam, you might begin to understand.

[Dune297]

And you have a blinkered view. If you can get past the fact that, for some people, it is nothing to do with it being Steam, you might begin to understand.

Give it a try if it doesn't have to do with Steam. If you aren't even against Steam and never experienced a problem with it then what's stopping you from buying FM12 and interacting with Steam once just to activate the game?

[Ackter]

And I guess that is done locally between the Steam software and the game? I.e. it won't check it online? As per the examples that you can play offline whenever you don't have a connection?

Yes, after the first time it does it offline.

[Ackter]

Really don't understand why bother releasing a DVD disc to release FM12 when it will be a digital connection to activate it, seem's pointless in my eyes, think how many trees you can now save by not printing the DVD case artwork

Because FM is a large game and a lot of people have download limits.

I double my download limit every month as it is

[The Welsh Lad]

Really don't understand why bother releasing a DVD disc to release FM12 when it will be a digital connection to activate it, seem's pointless in my eyes, think how many trees you can now save by not printing the DVD case artwork

Think of how many poeple will start losing jobs when places like GAME start closing becuase the gaming world is moving online

[tlm_77]

And what's your reason for not giving it a shot? How do you know it's not a great program that you'll find useful?

I have already downloaded Steam before, don't find it useful at all thank you.

Look, this has NOTHING to do with Steam.
It could be ANY SOFTWARE at all....the point is I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE TO DOWNLOAD 3RD PARTY SOFTWARE JUST TO RUN MY LEGALLY PURCHASED COPY OF FM, WHY SHOULD I???

Also, I hate having ANYTHING else running on my PC when I'm playing FM, only the basics run, but with this, I HAVE to have Steam running, I don't want this either.

[milnerpoint]

And you have a blinkered view. If you can get past the fact that, for some people, it is nothing to do with it being Steam, you might begin to understand.

And your being unreasonalbe about it all, you want an ipod you need itunes, you want FM you need steam, you have the choice, if your not happy take your buisness elsewhere, but going on and on about this is pointless, the decision is made, it is happening, either get on board or accept your going to miss out this year.

[Keyzer Soze]

one more question, from someone who does not understand anything about it, would not be possible to SI to arrange an system to authenticate the game without the need to install another software (in this case steam).

For example making the authentication via a web page ...

Is this system the only trustworthy?

[jsar]

Thanks for the responses guys, still seems unfair to me. Not gonna be stupid and say 'I'm not buying the game now blah blah blah' but for someone like myself who has been playing the game for 10+ years and my brother for around 5+ years to have to suffer because of criminals is just ridiculous. I don't blame SI but I'm not happy about this, no issues with Steam either, I quite like using Steam for myself but now we need two accounts, two codes and two games in the same house? Madness but nevermind.

Officially you would be counted as one of those "criminals" as one of you has been playing a game which you have not payed for :P

[The Welsh Lad]

one more question, from someone who does not understand anything about it, would not be possible to SI to arrange an system to authenticate the game without the need to install another software (in this case steam).

For example making the authentication via a web page ...

Is this system the only trustworthy?

That would be a much better solution, so then people without the internet can just pop into the library with the manual and enter the code or for those with internet on phones can do the same.

[Dune297]

I have already downloaded Steam before, don't find it useful at all thank you.

Look, this has NOTHING to do with Steam.
It could be ANY SOFTWARE at all....the point is I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE TO DOWNLOAD 3RD PARTY SOFTWARE JUST TO RUN MY LEGALLY PURCHASED COPY OF FM, WHY SHOULD I???

Also, I hate having ANYTHING else running on my PC when I'm playing FM, only the basics run, but with this, I HAVE to have Steam running, I don't want this either.

So you won't get a game you enjoy just because of something that will be running in the background that won't even have an effect on you or your performance.

[Matt_no_7]

The fact is you won't even have to deal with Steam besides the ONE time you install it and open it for FM12. What was your reason for not liking it by the way?

So i won't have to deal with Steam.... But i will? I'm not having a go or trying to start an arguement but even if i have to deal with it once i'm still having to deal with it. The reason i don't want it is because i found it to be an utter pain in the arse, the most pointless creation since Justin Bieber (oh how i hate him) and that's saying something!

I know some people don't mind and thats fine, use it once, twice, marry it for all i care, i have no problem with that if they like the features and want to use it then fine, go for it. What i have a problem with is having to install something i flat out don't want in order to get something i really do want.

It doesn't matter why i don't like it, i know instinct in most people will dictate that as soon as my reason is given they will try to counter it with an argument why i should use it. No, simple as, i WILL NOT USE IT. The reason is pointless, if people don't want to do something they will not do it.

You can lead a horse to water.....

[SCIAG]

And your being unreasonalbe about it all, you want an ipod you need itunes, you want FM you need steam, you have the choice,

Actually, you don't need iTunes for an iPod to work, it's just most people use it. There's a lovely piece of software called iShuffle which allows you to use an iPod like any other MP3 player, and other media players such as Spotify can do the same over elaborate synching job as iTunes. Similarly, with FM09 users could activate via Steam, via Uniloc, via telephone or via digital download. With FM10+11, users could activate via Steam, digitally download the game, or keep the disk in. With FM12, suddenly we can't digitally download (except via Steam) and we can't just keep the disk in?

Forcing customers to use a program they don't wish to use and inconviencing them isn't good customer service. SI have admitted that they don't think this will totally stop piracy. Ergo, it is punishing the paying customers and not the pirates.

[Keyzer Soze]

That would be a much better solution, so then people without the internet can just pop into the library with the manual and enter the code or for those with internet on phones can do the same.

So didn't SI go that way? Is it more secure the "steam way"?

[Ackter]

one more question, from someone who does not understand anything about it, would not be possible to SI to arrange an system to authenticate the game without the need to install another software (in this case steam).

For example making the authentication via a web page ...

Is this system the only trustworthy?

They've been trying for years to find the best solution - as things stand they believe that Steam is the best chance they have of combating piracy this time around.

[Snaus]

Yes, after the first time it does it offline.

Thx .

They should bring out a Steam Lite then. That only starts up to do the checking and then shuts off again...

[SCIAG]

one more question, from someone who does not understand anything about it, would not be possible to SI to arrange an system to authenticate the game without the need to install another software (in this case steam).

For example making the authentication via a web page ...

Is this system the only trustworthy?

If there was another authentification system that met their needs, SI would have chosen to use it. As it is, pretty much every other option is either more restrictive, not secure enough, or no longer exists.

[cms186]

What about the acquisition of Steam? FM updates? Steam updates?

Steam ( iirc ) is a very small program that takes little time to download, if you set it to offline mode the the FM/Steam updates wont happen because t wont be connected to the internet, of course you will want the FM updates anyway, but you dont need to do it via steam

And you know this how?

i later corrected myself by saying its pretty unlikely, unless you have access to Valves accounts and know something noone else does of course

Would you also be interested to know where they are? You are assuming a lot when you say that people without internet access won't be reading this! Friends, family, school, work, etc etc.

then they have access to the internet one way or another

You clearly don't accept this or you haven't read the thread properly, because you are calling someone, "too stubborn/lazy to go to a bit of effort", who posted earlier that he had had a bad experience with Steam in the past.

Despite the username, I am not pig-headed, and you will need to clarify what the change is that I am unable to accept, for me to comment.

I have never had a problem with Steam and I am unlikely to ever have one as I will not be using Steam for anything.

Separate to that, on Principle I will not be forced to download and run any third party programme. If that equates to stubbornness and laziness in your mind then so be it.
It will cost me, but I believe it will also cost SI/Sega one purchase price of FM12. Not able to play a game versus Principles, no contest.

Except your principles ( on this particular occasion ) are wrong ( in my opinion of course ) if you had an actual reason for not wanting to use steam ( like Valve ripped you off over something or someone stole your Steam details and you lost some money ) then yh, i could understand it maybe, but you say you never have.

Not downloading a third party application that will not harm you in any way and have very, very little impact on you or your pc, causing you to miss out on a game you enjoy playing ( i assume anyway ) with the only reason being your "principles", is being stubborn and pig-headed.

[Dune297]

Very true indeed, saddens me that they have taken this route as it goes against the grain with regards to purchasing PC games, you wont be getting games like COD or Battlefield 3 going down this route, but maybe because there sales are 5 million tops so might be a reason they are not bothered, but sometimes selling enough ain't enough for some companies.

COD is Steamworks and Battlefield 3 requires Origin. No difference here. Sorry if I don't understand what you're saying.

[shirajzl]

And your being unreasonalbe about it all, you want an ipod you need itunes, you want FM you need steam, you have the choice, if your not happy take your buisness elsewhere, but going on and on about this is pointless, the decision is made, it is happening, either get on board or accept your going to miss out this year.

That's the point, you see. He will not miss out, he'll simply use a pirated version (by "he" I mean an average user refusing to succumb to this nonsense). SEGA did the same thing with Total War series and the number of pirate players increased significantly...

[The Welsh Lad]

Very true indeed, saddens me that they have taken this route as it goes against the grain with regards to purchasing PC games, you wont be getting games like COD or Battlefield 3 going down this route, but maybe because there sales are 5 million tops so might be a reason they are not bothered, but sometimes selling enough ain't enough for some companies.

I know what you mean about selling enough isn't enough, going off from pc games, I used to work for SportsDirect.com in the high street the company would make like 190M profit and the week they tell everyone the managers would get an email saying they have to cut hours every year they are trying to run on less and less staff to push profit margins up regardless of customer service.

[The Welsh Lad]

COD is Steamworks and Battlefield 3 requires Origin. No difference here. Sorry if I don't understand what you're saying.

He's on about going down online route only no boxed games

[Dune297]

Playing the single player you don't need activation, the multiplayer side you do.

COD's Steamworks works the same way as FM's. Not sure about BF3.

[BayernMB]

can someone from SI tell me what im going to do about not having working internet access?

I take it im now going to miss out

Will you pay for my laptop to be fixed please. Just send me a cheque please

Well, I don't think SI is responsible for your laptop as there are minimum requirements for each game...I could also say "SI please send me a check to buy some RAM"...

But you stated that you have a laptop...perhaps you can carry it (yes, you can do that with laptops) and plug it somewhere where you have internet access, activate the game with Steam and from there on you san start Steam in offline mode.

Problem solved

[Kriss]

SI have been pushed into a corner over this, they are being dictated too as you can well see by the opening post by a Sega member, something you don't usually see on these forums.

Still seeing conspiracy theories everywhere then DRM is always announced by Sega, last year it was Matt, it's decided by consultation and yes Sega probably have final say.

That could of course be something to do with them owning SI.

[Carmi88]

Why is it that the poll question threads have all been shut?

Created one as the other two were closed, one was getting rather heated which is fair enough but looking at the results its very divided in for and against, seems this is a very dangerous way to go right now judging by peoples feelings.

because they had the exact same discussions that were being done in here, however I don't know why a poll has not been added

[SazoJohnno]

With the boxed copy, I pay/paid for the game itself...


The license thing is just more BS... The whole digital media thing is a complete rip-off, especially if I'm going to pay the license as much, or more, than the actual copy...

Paying a ticket to watch a movie at the theater ONCE doesn't and shouldn't cost me as much as the DVD or the Blue-ray release...


Anyway, fine... I'm not going to buy FM2012 because I don't want to register on Steam and don't want to have Steam running on my pc every time I want to play MY COPY of the game...

If I wanted to install and run Steam, I'd have bought the (license of the) game on Steam this year too...


Is it so difficult to understand it's a matter of principle for many of us, rather than a matter of technical limitations?


Would you be equally supportive if you'd have to set up a Google account, install and keep Google Chrome running every time you wanted to use Google Maps or Google Earth?!


Basically we can't play FM without Steam. And no, it's not like having to install DirectX or something similar... There are no technical reasons behind that decision, just financial/political ones.

Something I'm not going to knuckle under to. And I sincerely hope it'll be many of us.

The main point of FM doing this is because SI is trying to max their profits (Which will go in researching, licensing and etc) and the way to make certain of that is to make them to register with Steam to ensure they aren't going to piracy the game which will obviously hurt SI's pocket. This is understandable so why is it so hard to understand?

[Kriss]

Why is it that the poll question threads have all been shut?

Created one as the other two were closed, one was getting rather heated which is fair enough but looking at the results its very divided in for and against, seems this is a very dangerous way to go right now judging by peoples feelings.

If you read the whole of the two which were closed you'll see why, basically they just turn into a copy of this one.

[Carmi88]

Not downloading a third party application that will not harm you in any way and have very, very little impact on you or your pc, causing you to miss out on a game you enjoy playing ( i assume anyway ) with the only reason being your "principles", is being stubborn and pig-headed.

spot on there cms

[pigfacemonkeyman]

He is just talking about the start-up time in that case.


Because the company is one of the richest in the gaming industry. It's simply not going to happen.


You have never had a problem with it and you are bashing it like this? At least give it a try before all the negative comments.

It's things like this, that require correcting, that is causing people like myself to incur the wrath of certain moderators. Please tell me precisely how I did this. Failing that, please help me understand how you came to think this is what I did.

[Kriss]

A poll Kriss would give the company a whole picture of results with regards to the way it's going, it's a democratic way of result telling.

No, a survey of all users (not just the tiny minority who post on here) a few weeks after release would tell them how it's going (plus their sales figures of course)
A survey on here has curiosity value and not much else.

[Kriss]

Disagree

You always do and you're always wrong

[Ackter]

What bit don't you understand, piracy will not be stopped because of Steam activation, prove to us that it will stop all piracy, it wont, even Steam has a hack tool where you can download all the games for nothing, so what does that tell you about Steam as a reliable source.

No-one is naiive enough to think that piracy can be stopped - but it can be fought.

If this measure is enough to make even a small percentage of pirates actually buy the game then it will drastically increase the amount of resources SI will have at their disposal.

[jimhagen2309]

steam is a good option have purchased from them for last couple of years with no problems. so if this helps si combat piracy.
i think to connect to internet once to activate game is not much of a hassle for the paying customer.
it also means for once we will be playing the game on release date as well.

[data6930]

Read and posted in this thread throughout the day and there has been such a negative impact to the announcement, will SI/Sega bother to listen to loyal customers who don't want to play the game through Steam?? I think SI would have defininitely listened to people hear on the community, sadly I don't see the powers that be at Sega listening which is a shame.

The bottom line is piracy will still occur even with steam therefore it is difficult to believe that sales will increase forcing people to use steam if they want to play FM2012, I would think the opposite will occur, surely using the same thing as last year is the best all round solution, use Steam if you want to or have DVD in the drive and not use steam, that caters for both sets of customers, to do what your doing this year makes no sense whatsoever, especially at a time when the PC market for games is dwindling fast, yes, partly due to piracy it has to be said.

Sadly when customers feedback was important a few years back, in this community, now it is a case of sticking two fingers up to those of us that are unhappy with the decision that has been made. It won't be changed and that will mean some long standing customers will no longer buy the game.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

Steam ( iirc ) is a very small program that takes little time to download, if you set it to offline mode the the FM/Steam updates wont happen because t wont be connected to the internet, of course you will want the FM updates anyway, but you dont need to do it via steam



i later corrected myself by saying its pretty unlikely, unless you have access to Valves accounts and know something noone else does of course



then they have access to the internet one way or another



Except your principles ( on this particular occasion ) are wrong ( in my opinion of course ) if you had an actual reason for not wanting to use steam ( like Valve ripped you off over something or someone stole your Steam details and you lost some money ) then yh, i could understand it maybe, but you say you never have.

Not downloading a third party application that will not harm you in any way and have very, very little impact on you or your pc, causing you to miss out on a game you enjoy playing ( i assume anyway ) with the only reason being your "principles", is being stubborn and pig-headed.

See Post #1357, second paragraph.

Cheers
xxx

[jakobx]

No-one is naiive enough to think that piracy can be stopped - but it can be fought.

If this measure is enough to make even a small percentage of pirates actually buy the game then it will drastically increase the amount of resources SI will have at their disposal.

I dont get it. Why do you think a steam only game would decrease piracy? Its not a good copy protection mechanism. I would even go as far as to say its probably the worst of the all. The game will be available on torrent sites before most people are able to download it from Steam servers.

Its only going to increase piracy IMO. A lot of people are going to boycott Steam and im pretty sure a good chunk of them will still want to play the game one way or the other.

[kwillett]

No-one is naiive enough to think that piracy can be stopped - but it can be fought.

If this measure is enough to make even a small percentage of pirates actually buy the game then it will drastically increase the amount of resources SI will have at their disposal.

Pirates are pirates because they enjoy pirating. Its what they do. We enjoy playing the game, they enjoy pirating it. They are not going to buy a game they have no interest in. This is a pointless exercise that only hurts SIs existing customers.

[Spikester]

I'm not too happy about 'Having' to download Steam to play the game, especially when I'm buying the Boxed version.

Will a sticky be provided here on how to download and install Steam, and then to install the game through Steam?

Steve

[Chris22]

i re Installed Football Manager 2011 Through Steam.
been Playing on Offline Mode now for 2 Hours i Carn't Really tell the Difference to be Honest.

[TacticalGenius]

I reckon the thread needs to remain open simply because some people will be posting in here just to get more information about how it works - and we need to be around to help them get their answers.

Or you could post a thread where all the facts are laid out rather than people spreading misinformation about Steam and scaremongering.

[Barside]

Give it a try if it doesn't have to do with Steam. If you aren't even against Steam and never experienced a problem with it then what's stopping you from buying FM12 and interacting with Steam once just to activate the game?

If he does not like Steam or has a technical issue with it will he have an alternative? No
Will he be able to return the game for a refund if the above applies? No

That is a key part of the problem, if there was a backup function available that does not rely on 3rd party software then this would not be an issue.

[TacticalGenius]

I'm not too happy about 'Having' to download Steam to play the game, especially when I'm buying the Boxed version.

Will a sticky be provided here on how to download and install Steam, and then to install the game through Steam?

Steve

It's no more difficult than installing normally, except that you need to create a Steam account, which is no more difficult than signing up to a forum.

[Kriss]

Or you could post a thread where all the facts are laid out rather than people spreading misinformation about Steam and scaremongering.

Better to wait until there's some genuine expertise on the subject available?

[TacticalGenius]

If he does not like Steam or has a technical issue with it will he have an alternative? No
Will he be able to return the game for a refund if the above applies? No

That is a key part of the problem, if there was a backup function available that does not rely on 3rd party software then this would not be an issue.

Steam can be downloaded for free beforehand. Any issues will then show up before a penny is spent.

[Dune297]

If he does not like Steam or has a technical issue with it will he have an alternative? No
Will he be able to return the game for a refund if the above applies? No

That is a key part of the problem, if there was a backup function available that does not rely on 3rd party software then this would not be an issue.

Download it before purchasing?

[Ackter]

If he does not like Steam or has a technical issue with it will he have an alternative? No
Will he be able to return the game for a refund if the above applies? No

That is a key part of the problem, if there was a backup function available that does not rely on 3rd party software then this would not be an issue.

If there was a backup function available that SI trusted, they'd use it.

[Scab]

As has been mentioned earlier: If you fear you'll run into issues with Steam, it may be a good idea to get it right now and try downloading+running one of the many free demos that are on there.

[PW]

Decision made, not going to buy the game at all. First time in over a decade that I won't.
I WILL NOT be made to download Steam just to play a game I have brought.
Steam is rubbish in my opinion and a worthless way of trying to tackle piracy.
You are forcing people to open an account with steam and to play the game via the Steam set-up which is disgusting and insulting to a consumer that demands choice not a Chinese decision making venture from no doubt Sega not SI.
Absolute disgrace and I hope the sales suffer.

[Kriss]

Decision made, not going to buy the game at all. First time in over a decade that I won't.
I WILL NOT be made to download Steam just to play a game I have brought.
Steam is rubbish in my opinion and a worthless way of trying to tackle piracy.
You are forcing people to open an account with steam and to play the game via the Steam set-up which is disgusting and insulting to a consumer that demands choice not a Chinese decision making venture from no doubt Sega not SI.
Absolute disgrace and I hope the sales suffer.

You forgot to add the "loyal customer" bit.

[Dune297]

Decision made, not going to buy the game at all. First time in over a decade that I won't.
I WILL NOT be made to download Steam just to play a game I have brought.
Steam is rubbish in my opinion and a worthless way of trying to tackle piracy.
You are forcing people to open an account with steam and to play the game via the Steam set-up which is disgusting and insulting to a consumer that demands choice not a Chinese decision making venture from no doubt Sega not SI.
Absolute disgrace and I hope the sales suffer.

What don't you like about Steam?

[PW]

You forgot to add the "loyal customer" bit.

No I didn't go moderate elsewhere.

[Ackter]

http://www.totalwar.com/shogun2/steam-faq

That's the Steam FAQ from Total War which uses the same system. Now, I'm not saying it'll be exactly the same with FM (because I haven't got any more information than you all do), but it'll be worth a read for people who are unsure about Steam.

[PW]

What don't you like about Steam?

First off Steam has to run to play the game even in offline mode.
Secondly I am being forced to apply and have an account with a 3rd party company that in my opinion have absolutely rubbish customer service and have very very debatable privacy concerns.
THIS WILL NOT STOP PIRACY, it will not even dent the issue.
Another activation complete balls up by SI and Sega.

[TacticalGenius]

Decision made, not going to buy the game at all. First time in over a decade that I won't.
I WILL NOT be made to download Steam just to play a game I have brought.
Steam is rubbish in my opinion and a worthless way of trying to tackle piracy.
You are forcing people to open an account with steam and to play the game via the Steam set-up which is disgusting and insulting to a consumer that demands choice not a Chinese decision making venture from no doubt Sega not SI.
Absolute disgrace and I hope the sales suffer.

And your opinion is based on what, exactly?

[pigfacemonkeyman]

If I may, a quick question for the moderators. Can moderators 'call time' on other moderators?

Cheers
xxx

[Ackter]

Guys, can we please stop pestering everyone who says they don't like Steam. They're perfectly within their rights to dislike it and don't have to justify that opinion to anyone.

[Invis]

Disappointing that Steam is required to be honest, and no, this will not combat piracy. Steam is one of the easiest forms of "protection" to circumvent I'm afraid.