I've ignored Brock's postings as, apart from the fact that they show a massive amount of disrespect to the people that actually buy the game, it's quite obvious that he is just another of the monkey's and is nowhere near the organ. What he has to say is about as relevant as those people who "have never had a problem with Steam"...
I downloaded Steam for 09 and it crippled my laptop. I was really looking forward to FM 12 but I doubt I'll get it now. :'(
Can someone please tell me the real reasons behind this
I just don't understand why this is going to happen
Doing this for "piracy issues" is not going to make more people buy it. The people who copy the game obviously have no intention of paying for it so it wont make a difference to them
You will lose more people than gain
We hold the strings - not them.
Users' expectations should not be lowered - otherwise software companies would walk all over us.
People don't like to be walked over, and this is what this change does for some.
To activate you will need to sign up to, and install the Steam client
Having bought a copy for the last 7 years, I will not be buying 2012. FM11 will have to do until this policy changes. I will not be forced to put Steam on my computer.
Make no mistake, if a quarter of the people that usually pirate the game switch to purchasing Football Manager 2012, the sales of the game worldwide would more than double. This would lead to increased development budgets and more benefits for all of you who do buy the game.
Is that a serious comment, or do you think we are idiots?
Last edited by aaron70; 17-09-2011 at 14:40.
Here's the bottom line in my opinion;
For the people using pirated versions of FM to play, there is no difference. All it takes is one person to crack the game and/or come up with a workaround (and they will do this) to play it without Steam installed, and the user will find it easily on any of the hundreds of torrent sites out there.
So if you're a person using the pirated version of the game, it makes no difference if SEGA publishes the game exclusively through Steam or not, you will find your cracked version as quickly as usual. Which then creates the question how using Steam will reduce the number non-paying customers? And also; how will SEGA even know if the number is reduced based on Steam, or based on other things?
As I see it, the honest consumers are being punished for the actions of thieves, when we should be rewarded for our many years of loyal consumerism to the developer. I trust Sports Interactive, but I don't trust SEGA, and I definitely don't trust Valve.
What SEGA has done is to effectively add another layer of things that can go wrong between me as a user and the game I want to play. If my account gets compromised, or if I get wrongfully banned for whatever reason, Valve is now the ultimate judge on my purchased games, and can decide on a whim whetherI'm able to play or access them or not.
Although there is a huge difference between Apple and Sports Interactive, SI might want to look at the model Apple use for most of their consumer software products - no DRM, no serials, no activation. And the reason they can do that is because they focus on creating highly polished and desirable software that you want to buy.
And to be honest, I'm 100% certain that it would make no difference in piracy whatsoever if you only publish through Steam, or if you have no DRM, serials or activation whatsoever. And the reason I think that, is because codemonkeys aren't deterred by SEGA's exclusive (and lucrative I assume) publishing deal with Steam, and those who opt for using pirated software won't all of a sudden go "hmm well if it's only on Steam, I might as well buy it, instead of waiting for a cracked version as I always do".
Sorry for the essay.
Have an opinion by all means, but once stated it'd be polite to just shut up rather than engaging in some prepubescent mission to wax wroth every third post.
I have GalCiv2 on my PC. If I want to update it I have to log on Impulse, so I have an unupdated copy of GalCiv2. But - and this is important - GalCiv2 doesn't demand that I MUST register with Impulse to play the game.
Seeing that I lived in shared accomodation for 4 years with no internet access for my PC, I'm sympathetic to the people on here that are averse to this whole setup. There was not one version of CM/FM that I regularly purchased that demanded internet access (even the last disastrous activation attempt allowed the possibility of offline acivation via telephone).
Ok i have steam on my computer and so far have had no problems with it....I understand that people do and so like to own disc based games that dont need to connect to the internet....The sad fact of the matter is that all games on the pc are going digital distribution be that with steam, direct download, greenman gaiming, good old games, and even ea,s origin. Have a look in your local games shop and see how big the pc stand is.It is only maybe another two to three years before all pc games become direct downloads only.This will also happen to consoles, not this gen but next gen...Do you all complain when you download your apps to your phones, tablets.? Do people complain because they cant buy them in a shop ?Ye. Do i think this will stop the game from being pirated... No, it wont , do i think this will earn si any more sales,,, no i dont. The game will sell as much as it does every year....If you want more sales, reduce the price down to under £ 20. A double dip is coming, games are an expensive treat.Yes i no this is about having to acctivate a disc based game via steam, but si are not the only game company that do this.Look at what others are doing befor you judge si so harshly. You want to play battlefield 3 you will need to install orgin you want to play diablo 3 you need to install blizzards downloader and client. And there more games which you are required to do this.
Twice in recent days after I have shut down FM steam is running in the background doing nothing and is around 150mb usage and my poor laptop can't put up with that anymore, will still get FM but was seriously looking forward to uninstalling steam
I would like to start off that I condemn piracy of any media.
However, I would like to know the details of the research with regards to the post that was made commenting that for every 1 FM game there is 3 'cracked' games being used or something along those lines.
Obviously the term 'cracked' is very wide.
1) Cracked could mean a product downloaded illegally off the internet and used without paying.
2) It could mean a NOCD crack has been used on a legally purchased game. I understand this violate the terms of the EULA, however, this doesn't mean the game is pirated in anyway shape or form.
So I am interested in this. Does the research that has led to the 3-1 ratio conclusion include or exclude people legally purchasing the game, keeping it, but yet using a NOCD crack. I'm not interested in the rights or wrongs of that as that argument has been done to death on here and all over the internet. I am just curious to know a bit more about the research involved that led to the 3-1 conclusion.
If you don't want to release the research, may I ask why not?
Just started Steam on my Mac, took 42 seconds to open (couldn't connect to my account). Idling, it's using 143MB, which is more memory than my web browser, my mail client, my Twitter client, etc. It's also using 2-2.5% processor power when just doing nothing. Compared to 'real' background clients like Dropbox, Plex Media Server and Cloud app, Steam is using around 4-5x the resources.
One of the problems with this is that neither SI nor SEGA have any control over the bloatware, and will have to rely on Steam working well on my machine in order for me to actually use the software I bought from SI and SEGA.
Just because you, I & the majority use the PC format it does not make it the best & only option.
paged to disk in pages - since it's on your computer, it is getting paged, and is therefore consuming resources under the bonnet.
Also, it doesn't matter how quick your processor is - it's processor cycles it's consuming, and it would be around 35% on many processors, from Pentium 4s to Sandy Bridge Xeons. The difference is how long it takes to complete - i.e. how long it stays at 35%.
Please stop posting in this thread because your ill-informed and unwelcome demands on how we should spend our hard-earned salaries deliver nothing to the topic in hand and only serve to anger and upset others.
Even if his computer is a "10-year old piece of crap" (which it isn't) it shouldn't matter - the point is that Steam is another resource layer between him and the game, and isn't optimised enough for Mac to work as well in OS X as it does in Windows. For us Mac users, Steam mostly feels like a sloppy port of PC code.
It's not about "filling a quota" as such - it's about the effects of paging, context switching and Steam's own processing. 150 MB says a lot about that process - it's huge. Is it for good reason? Well, if I just want to play FM, I don't care about Steam... So I don't want to see Steam.
Think about it - when your game runs slow, people often recommend you close other applications, even if you have a billion gigabytes of RAM. It has nothing to do with "filling up your RAM counter" - it's more than that.
Um... my Steam Client is running at 39MB (out of 8GB?!?), occasionally jumps to 45MB whilst playing. Hardly a hog.
Dune can you get off the anti-mac line? it's not helpful & dilutes anything you post.
Surely you can see that the proposed software is not optimised for a particular piece of hardware/software & this should have been considered when taking this action.
A modern-day Unix shell is more functional than Windows 7, but it is obvious that your argument doesn't hold - few consumers like Unix interfaces.
Plus, this argument does not hold for free OSes like Ubuntu - which are infinitely better than Windows 7, so are infinitely better value for money. So why do people not ditch Windows and Macs, and go for Ubuntu?
The reason is simple - there's way more to an operating system than functionality, and there's other factors aside from functionality that determine price. Plus people are willing to pay extra for "nice". Look at brand loyalty, for example, or paying a little extra for better customer service.
Ive read all 12 pages & here is my opinion, I think that I will not be buying FM2012 as I too do not want to have Steam on my computer, I dont care if its better then it was a few years ago its my choice and I will not be made to look stupid or petty from suck ups on here, I like over 50 people on this thread alone will not buy it so you are looking at a loss of 50 x 30 = 1500 pound loss just because they dont want to use Steam, you say it will deter some people from getting pirated copies of games instead of buying it, the main reason why people download stuff i.e films, music, games etc cos in this current climate you cant afford to buy things, I aint saying I download Football Manager cos Ive always bought a copy despite the frustrating bugs, I think you will end up regretting this in the long run & I just hope its changed back to normal for the release of FM2013 which I look forward to playing on, Ill continue to play on FM2011 and I wish you luck on here.
But that comes later in life for some.
Can we stop all this bickering please, Steam won't adversely affect the functioning of a reasonable spec computer, if it does there's something amiss.
Nevertheless, it has a memory and processor footprint.
There is only one bad thing about Macs - the yes and no buttons on FM are the other way around.
I use both Macs and PCs and they're both as good as each other.
Incidentally, my current PC is 7 years old.
yeah yeah, keep on derailing the thread Dune... where's the infractions for Off-Topic posts Moderators? Do your job instead of inflaming the debate yourselves!
There is a noticeable amount of opposition to SI/SEGA's decision to go Steam-Only, there is also a noticeable amount of a "we don't care" attitude from SI/SEGA...
The enormous lack of respect for the current customer-base is unbelievable... we're the people that buy your game, not pirate it! We should have a choice!
I've made mine
What annoys me in the discussion is that preference always descends into some sanctimoniously entrenched bitchfest over brand loyalty rather than just accepting other peoples choice.
Dune297, I swear I can feel brain cells committing suicide whilst reading your posts.
Really is amusing and amazing that people will shoot themselves in the foot by not getting FM12 just because they are too stubborn to not get Steam, if you have a PC made in the last 3-4 years Steam should work with no problems at all, and unless your PC is ancient, then this really shouldnt be an issue. Ive had Steam for what must be 3-4 years and never had a single problem with it, download speeds are good, can run offline very easily, its running at about 40mbs atm, not slowing up my pc, i dont even notice it unless i want to play a Steam game.
Will wager that most of the people who say they wont be getting FM12 will have it within a month of release anyway though
Activision came out with the same thing as well.
Steam basically nullifies the used games market as you cannot resell your game.
And what about the Mac users? It runs at 150-200MB on idle.
Those people that aren't going to buy FM12 because of Steam, you are not big PC gamers are you?
You are basically forced to use Steam for PC gaming at the moment. Most big PC releases use Steamworks for DRM, we might not like it but we have to live with it if we want to play those games. I'm not a massive fan, Ive always tried to avoid it if possible and certainly never bought anything from them as it is a rip off. There are irritating things about it (having to manually tweak settings off for every game instead of having them turned off by default and giving you the option to turn them back on for individual games), but it is the least offensive Online DRM and it generally works better then everything else (GfWL, Ubisoft crap, etc...). Offline hasn't always worked perfectly for me, and that has been massively annoying but I wouldn't avoid a game because it was Steam unlike GfWL, Ubisoft, crap etc... On PC it barely effects a decent spec PC performance, it obviously has problems on Mac but gaming on a Mac has other problems anyway (chiefly that hardly any games bother to port over to Mac).
Steam is the best thing to happen to PC games probably in the history of PC games. Viva Steam. SI, you have my sword.
Also, I seriously dislike the idea that a company can decide on their own whim that I'm not allowed to play a game I've bought. Of course this happens very rarely. There's also the risk of the company (Steam company, Valve?) going bust, IIRC there was a music provider who went bust a few years ago (I don't remember the name), where people who have bought their music no longer could listen to it since they no longer could be authenticated.
I'm not that surprised of the decision SEGA and SI have made, although unhappy about it, but the timing of it is astonishing. If you bring news, which is likely to create negative reactions, wouldn't you normally do it at a time when you could reply and allay the fears which many apparently have, therefor not doing it Friday afternoon so the "outrage" won't built for 2½ day without much "fire extinguishing".
You can run Steam in offline mode, and play games in offline mode. I have, and have played FM2009 and FM2011 exactly like that. Activation is a once-off.
Also, sort of off the point, but saying Steam is a rip-off is laughable: they're one of the most competitive digital distributors, and there are always amazing deals and bundles on. Valve are probably the most admirable company working in videogames, and Steam probably the single most important piece of software.
Like, you kinda have to be a luddite not to appreciate it as an accomplishment.
As for your wager, perhaps you'd like to state an amount saying that I would be one of those to have it by November end? Before you do though, bear in mind that I walked away from buying a 40 grand car simply because, when I asked for a brochure, I was told to download it! Not, sure I'll go get you one, not I'm afraid I have to download it, no... You (I) will have to download it... yeah? You think? How about I buy my car from somewhere that has got a brochure? (which I did...). To play FM12 I must install Steam? How much do you really want to wager that I won't?
i just want to say: please, to the people that want to say no to STEAM: don't just make problems on the forum, DO NOT BUY THE GAME DEFINITELY, that one is the only way to have some attention on our "NO TO STEAM".
i'm also disappointed about...the SI\SEGA staff because they cannot say to us: -doesn't change anything for the genuine customers- or something like that.
i'm genuine customers too of FM\CM by 10-11 years....and for me change a lot because i cannot play anymore with FM.
my 2 cent,
However, you've made it abundantly clear so often that it's becoming spam, really you don't need to tell us again, nobody can be in any doubt about your views on the subject.
Can i uninstall steam after activation? Or do i need to have it open every time i play the game?
You have to have it open.
Right now on my machine I have it open with FM11 running and it's eating a whopping 70MB of my 4GB of RAM, and putting a hurt of 00% on my CPU.
What people don't seem to realize is that using Steam to play PC games in 2011 is sort of like using IE/Firefox/Chrome to browse the Internet. It's long since been adopted as the standard, and with good reason: it's great.
Last edited by Kriss; 17-09-2011 at 16:22. Reason: Naughty, tut, tut
Not much for me to say really - all the Steam bashing I could do has already been done. What I will do is register my unhappiness with SI and SEGA by virtue of this post.
I've recently graduated from University, and I'm sure other people are in the same boat as me when I say this, job hunting hasn't yet been as successful as I'd hoped. Consequently my finances aren't as good as they could be. I planned on budgeting my weekly spend in the lead up to release so that I could afford to buy FM2012 without feeling guilty. However with this announcement and my previous bad experiences of using Steam I have decided that I'm not going to buy or preorder FM2012. I am quite happy to continue using FM2011.
That is not to say I won't play FM2012, I have my birthday in December and obviously Christmas, so it's extremely likely that I will get a copy (my friends and family all know of my love of the game). I don't want to use Steam and am unhappy about having to do so, but I am resigned to this being the case. However I certainly won't be spending my money to buy the game because of it.
Also, thanks to x42bn6 for his informative posts. I've started following you on twitter as a result.
It's really hard for me -- and everyone at SI, I imagine -- to get my head around the fevered response to this.
It's like hearing people complain that to keep watching a boxset of their favourite show they're going to need a DVD player to put the discs in.
Only in this case the DVD player is free and also gives blowjobs.
Valve is a massive company, they arent going to go bust anytime soonAlso, I seriously dislike the idea that a company can decide on their own whim that I'm not allowed to play a game I've bought. Of course this happens very rarely. There's also the risk of the company (Steam company, Valve?) going bust, IIRC there was a music provider who went bust a few years ago (I don't remember the name), where people who have bought their music no longer could listen to it since they no longer could be authenticated.
All news will bring reactions, a few people are unhappy about this, fine, but if you have a decent internet connection, there is nothing to be angry about, even if you dont have one, you could go to a hotspot ( if you have a laptop ), get a wireless dongle, tether their phone or even take your computer round a friends/relatives who do have internet access. The only people who should be angry about this are those who have literally no access to the internet afer the methods ive listed above, it would be interesting to know how many of them there are, of course, they wont be reading this thoughI'm not that surprised of the decision SEGA and SI have made, although unhappy about it, but the timing of it is astonishing. If you bring news, which is likely to create negative reactions, wouldn't you normally do it at a time when you could reply and allay the fears which many apparently have, therefor not doing it Friday afternoon so the "outrage" won't built for 2½ day without much "fire extinguishing".
You are just 1 person ( not the majority i mentioned ), if you are literally too stubborn/lazy to go to a bit of effort to be able to play a game or buy a car, then your stubborness/laziness is only going to cost one person, you.As for your wager, perhaps you'd like to state an amount saying that I would be one of those to have it by November end? Before you do though, bear in mind that I walked away from buying a 40 grand car simply because, when I asked for a brochure, I was told to download it! Not, sure I'll go get you one, not I'm afraid I have to download it, no... You (I) will have to download it... yeah? You think? How about I buy my car from somewhere that has got a brochure? (which I did...). To play FM12 I must install Steam? How much do you really want to wager that I won't?
I've bought three PC games since January, all digital downloads and not one of them requires Steam. Two used a different sort of online activation and they load nothing extra when playing while the third I was emailed a an activation code.
Steam may be pushing to have a monopoly but they haven't got it yet.
People who've had problems with Steam in the past would obviously be concerned, although I believe it's improved enormously over the last couple of years and has never given me any problems.
Those who haven't even used it should really try before they call it a tool of the devil.
Those who refuse because it's third party software are making an irrational stand, nothing much on their PC would work without third party software so the only realistic objection can be that it affects performance or detracts from security, I don't believe it does either.
I will buy the boxed version of the game, after the steam-registered (of which I have an account to 2 years) I can easily get out of steam? or should I always keep it open, even in offline mode?
If you buy games only during Steam sales, then you will save an absolute packet.
If you buy games whenever you want only through Steam, then you will lose a lot of money. Their pricing is not competitive with the likes of Amazon/Zavvi/Base etc. Especially not in Europe.
Ha, sorry but what a joke. Like others, I don't care if it's just running in the background, I don't care if it doesn't take up to much space etc. I will NOT be forced to install Steam on my computer. There might not be a law against forcing folk to install other programs to play games and hell it may happen all the time but you are not dictating what I put on my pc. End of story. So that's another buyer lost.
Last edited by Kriss; 17-09-2011 at 16:48. Reason: Keep it clean
You are 'forced' to install an OS on your computer if you want it to start, and a browser if you want to go on the web, and Office (or equivalent) if you want to do word processing or spreadsheets. You are 'forced' to install iTunes if you own an iPod. You are 'forced' to install any number of piece of third party software to do anything on a computer, and I would wager that the same people who are complaining about the principle here have three different spyware-riddled browser toolbars on the go right now.
SI are not dictating what you put on your PC, you are.
ok, a couple of questions:
1) I buy the game, disc version, and install it on my PC. I need then to install Steam and activate the game. After this, can i let steam offline forever?
2) Every time i want to play FM, do i need to run steam first? Or i just need to double-clik my FM shortcut has i currently do?
3) When a patch is released, can i download it from SI website and install it manually as i currently do?
4) Am i obliged to patch the game? Or can i play the game with the first version, even after the release of 1 or 2 patches?
5) Where my FM save games are located? In my PC or in some server?
6) Can i still use programs like FMRTE or Fmscout if i want? And what about custom graphics?
Thks in advance to any repplys! And by the way, i think it would be great if a post were made answering this kind of questions! for me this is the important stuff!
2) If you double-click your FM shortcut, it will automatically open Steam and then launch the game.
3) The patches will install automatically when available, but you can tell them not to.
4) See above: you can choose not to update the game.
5) Your FM save games are located on your PC, though some of your settings can be saved to a cloud as well.
6) Yes, yes, and yes.
Steam is not needed to play a game - it is not the only way possible for a game to run on a computer, in the same way that it is only possible to view webpages in a browser of some description. Stop using those "arguments" because they don't wash.
Forcing people to use Steam is just poor. No one should be forced to do anything if they want to play a game, or run any software, or listen to some music.
2. Double-click the FM shortcut and it'll launch Steam automatically
3. I don't know
4. I don't think so. You can turn off auto-updates, but I've never tried it.
5. On your PC, in the same way as all previous FM games have
6. Yes and yes.