A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation

[stevetranmere]

This is why we're going to provide as much customer care as we can in regards to FM and Steam. If you're having issues with offline mode, we'll be able to try and help. With offline, the best way to get it to work would be, for example with FM12, would be once the game is installed, set Steam to offline mode and set it to start in offline mode. Close Steam, disconnect from the Internet and launch the game. It should launch with no issues.

fair enough you are going to provide as much customer care as possible. BUT I DONT WANT TO USE STEAM in the first place, what customer care are you going to provide to me? because to me it looks like im just being told to lump it or leave it?

SO i got no reply last night, i will try again! What customer care are you going to provide to me? because as we have been told "if you dont want to use steam, you cant play football manager 2012!" not very good customer care is it?

[ChrisAshmore12]

Well this is going to be ****

[data6930]

Why has the Poll thread about Steam been closed?? It should be re-opened so people who have ploughed money into the Football Manager franchise can have their say. SI have always wanted involvement from the community about every aspect of the Football manager series. I can only assume that you are worried people will showing their feelings about the Steam farce again, rightly so, either way, be it positive or negative people have a right to voice their opinions in that poll as well as in this thread.

Putting things into perspective their are dwindling numbers on the forums, just 8 pages of responses to the announcement of the game since August, that is worrying in it's own right (Christ in the past there would have been numerous pages of responses to that!!), then you look at the thread about steam activation announced yesterday and 11 pages of responses to that, I think that speaks for itself.

I like many others have supported the game for donkey's years but will not tolerate 3rd party software to play a game. Dwindling numbers on the forums = dwindling numbers buying the game, then put into the mix steam activation that means more people not buying the game. I am certain that those who have played the game for years have in the main been playing purchased copies of the game so to go down nothing but the steam route is a crazy decision, you should be looking at attracting more people to the game not pushing away loyal customers.

[Ackter]

People can have their say in here - the poll was just a smaller version of this thread with the same opinions being stated over and over again.

The poll itself doesn't mean much, I think the reactions in this thread are more important - there's no need for two threads about the same thing.

[BuryBlade]

Why has the Poll thread about Steam been closed?? It should be re-opened so people who have ploughed money into the Football Manager franchise can have their say. SI have always wanted involvement from the community about every aspect of the Football manager series. I can only assume that you are worried people will showing their feelings about the Steam farce again, rightly so, either way, be it positive or negative people have a right to voice their opinions in that poll as well as in this thread.

Putting things into perspective their are dwindling numbers on the forums, just 8 pages of responses to the announcement of the game since August, that is worrying in it's own right (Christ in the past there would have been numerous pages of responses to that!!), then you look at the thread about steam activation announced yesterday and 11 pages of responses to that, I think that speaks for itself.

I like many others have supported the game for donkey's years but will not tolerate 3rd party software to play a game. Dwindling numbers on the forums = dwindling numbers buying the game, then put into the mix steam activation that means more people not buying the game. I am certain that those who have played the game for years have in the main been playing purchased copies of the game so to go down nothing but the steam route is a crazy decision, you should be looking at attracting more people to the game not pushing away loyal customers.

Very well put.

And in response to the user who posted that in the long run we will HAVE TO install Steam... rubbish... no we won't. We don't have to install anything we don't want to. If that's the route SI choose to go down where you have to install 3rd party software, then I think they will lose some of their fanbase.

[0gris]

Why has the Poll thread about Steam been closed?? It should be re-opened so people who have ploughed money into the Football Manager franchise can have their say. SI have always wanted involvement from the community about every aspect of the Football manager series. I can only assume that you are worried people will showing their feelings about the Steam farce again, rightly so, either way, be it positive or negative people have a right to voice their opinions in that poll as well as in this thread.

Putting things into perspective their are dwindling numbers on the forums, just 8 pages of responses to the announcement of the game since August, that is worrying in it's own right (Christ in the past there would have been numerous pages of responses to that!!), then you look at the thread about steam activation announced yesterday and 11 pages of responses to that, I think that speaks for itself.

I like many others have supported the game for donkey's years but will not tolerate 3rd party software to play a game. Dwindling numbers on the forums = dwindling numbers buying the game, then put into the mix steam activation that means more people not buying the game. I am certain that those who have played the game for years have in the main been playing purchased copies of the game so to go down nothing but the steam route is a crazy decision, you should be looking at attracting more people to the game not pushing away loyal customers.

You do realise the forum represents a VERY SMALL size of the total customer base? This forum probably account for around 5% of the player base, at best. And i'll ask again, actually ever gave steam a try?

I'll say it again, people should give steam at least a chance, you might not like it but try it out, it might surprise you, just blindly hating it wont do you any good. If you still dont like it then, fair enough, but it really doesnt look like anyone used steam here apart from a few people(The ones that find this a bad move)

[data6930]

You do realise the forum represents a VERY SMALL size of the total customer base? This forum probably account for around 5% of the player base, at best. And i'll ask again, actually ever gave steam a try?

I'll say it again, people should give steam at least a chance, you might not like it but try it out, it might surprise you, just blindly hating it wont do you any good. If you still dont like it then, fair enough, but it really doesnt look like anyone used steam here apart from a few people(The ones that find this a bad move)

On what do you base that percentage?? At the end of the day Football Manager Forums on SI have always been extremely active so I would have to say your figure of 5% is way off the mark.

Regards Steam I don't want it on for any game, any game that uses it I won't buy which includes FM2012 sadly, I did the same thing when they did a similar thing with FM2008 or 2009.

[Louwen]

It's not unobtrusive at all - It's the worst piece of software ever created on a Mac. This is with Steam sitting idle for 10 minutes after opening.



That memory could be put much better to use with FM, which is a close second on the worst piece of software ever created on a Mac. Memory usage and fan speed goes through the roof whenever you launch it.

I can top that.

[Lord Rowell]

Why has the Poll thread about Steam been closed?? It should be re-opened so people who have ploughed money into the Football Manager franchise can have their say. SI have always wanted involvement from the community about every aspect of the Football manager series. I can only assume that you are worried people will showing their feelings about the Steam farce again, rightly so, either way, be it positive or negative people have a right to voice their opinions in that poll as well as in this thread.

Putting things into perspective their are dwindling numbers on the forums, just 8 pages of responses to the announcement of the game since August, that is worrying in it's own right (Christ in the past there would have been numerous pages of responses to that!!), then you look at the thread about steam activation announced yesterday and 11 pages of responses to that, I think that speaks for itself.

I like many others have supported the game for donkey's years but will not tolerate 3rd party software to play a game. Dwindling numbers on the forums = dwindling numbers buying the game, then put into the mix steam activation that means more people not buying the game. I am certain that those who have played the game for years have in the main been playing purchased copies of the game so to go down nothing but the steam route is a crazy decision, you should be looking at attracting more people to the game not pushing away loyal customers.

Agree with you about the poll thread, I posted something similar earlier in this thread.

Replying to your post here (see emboldened section) because I was thinking along a similar line. I'm seeing lots of people here, from the regular to occasional, voicing dissent and saying, including myself, that they're not going to buy FM12.

SI have created a problem here because it is their hard core fanbase that really make this community, which in turn is a marketing tool for the game itself.

Destroy the hard core fanbase and there will be little activity here, that in turn will damage the long term marketability of the game. Its not just SI who've made the game great, its the fans through the wealth of knowledge, tactics, modpacks, guides and so on who have made it. Alienate this section of the fanbase and the damage to the FM Brand will be significant and probably far more damaging than the piracy this measure will be effective in presenting.

[0gris]

FM 11 sold over a million retail copies alone in Europe, Asia and Africa. Not counting any digitally bought games. The forum has 148,523 registered members. That includes many inactive accounts, and people who have registered for other games. I think you'll find i dont pull numbers out of my ass. 5-7% is perfectly realistic. Even IF the entire forum, as in every registered member, didn't buy the full game. It wouldn't make a huge difference on sales. It's around a 100,000 less. Not so much when you're talking about a million seller(it is a lost profit, but as i said, it's horribly unrealistic to expect every registered member to be active and have registered for FM). I daresay less than a 1000 sales will be lost due to steam.

[jpwild]

FM 11 sold over a million retail copies alone in Europe, Asia and Africa. Not counting any digitally bought games. The forum has 148,523 registered members. That includes many inactive accounts, and people who have registered for other games. I think you'll find i dont pull numbers out of my ass. 5-7% is perfectly realistic. Even IF the entire forum, as in every registered member, didn't buy the full game. It wouldn't make a huge difference on sales. It's around a 100,000 less. Not so much when you're talking about a million seller(it is a lost profit, but as i said, it's horribly unrealistic to expect every registered member to be active and have registered for FM). I daresay less than a 1000 sales will be lost due to steam.

Most likely the game product will sell and still do well. In my opinion though this year does see a lot of variety and choice out there in terms of games such as Uncharted 3, COD, BF and others. Interesting few months for the game industry. However, have you factored in people who will read this news on game news sites and magazines and may not be happy with it? Not to mention other forums out there in which people are not registered here.

[data6930]

Well said.

Agree with you about the poll thread, I posted something similar earlier in this thread.

Replying to your post here (see emboldened section) because I was thinking along a similar line. I'm seeing lots of people here, from the regular to occasional, voicing dissent and saying, including myself, that they're not going to buy FM12.

SI have created a problem here because it is their hard core fanbase that really make this community, which in turn is a marketing tool for the game itself.

Destroy the hard core fanbase and there will be little activity here, that in turn will damage the long term marketability of the game. Its not just SI who've made the game great, its the fans through the wealth of knowledge, tactics, modpacks, guides and so on who have made it. Alienate this section of the fanbase and the damage to the FM Brand will be significant and probably far more damaging than the piracy this measure will be effective in presenting.

[0gris]

Most likely the game product will sell and still do well. In my opinion though this year does see a lot of variety and choice out there in terms of games such as Uncharted 3, COD, BF and others. Interesting few months for the game industry. However, have you factored in people who will read this news on game news sites and magazines and may not be happy with it? Not to mention other forums out there in which people are not registered here.

Yes, they will be vocal, but the effect will not be as drastic as people seem to make it out to be. Yes, there might be lost sales(and gained sales), and we can't accurately predict it. But many other games went to steam only, and they didnt sell poorly after the initial shock calmed down and people realized that hey, i dont like the program but i still want to enjoy my games, i'll just take it on the chin and do it. Most people who will however read this on game news sites and in magazines however, are gamers. And believe me, they already will have steam installed. This forum is vocal about it as it's not really full of gamers per-se, and has had limited experiences with steam. Any gaming news site would have people moaning over NOT having a steam version.

It's funny how things work really.

[Lord Rowell]

FM 11 sold over a million retail copies alone in Europe, Asia and Africa. Not counting any digitally bought games. The forum has 148,523 registered members. That includes many inactive accounts, and people who have registered for other games. I think you'll find i dont pull numbers out of my ass. 5-7% is perfectly realistic. Even IF the entire forum, as in every registered member, didn't buy the full game. It wouldn't make a huge difference on sales. It's around a 100,000 less. Not so much when you're talking about a million seller(it is a lost profit, but as i said, it's horribly unrealistic to expect every registered member to be active and have registered for FM). I daresay less than a 1000 sales will be lost due to steam.

I certainly won't argue with your numbers, it sounds like you know your stuff :-)

I don't think there will be a massive short-term impact so we are in agreement there. What is more likely to happen is that there will be a gradual, long term effect on the FM Brand. A big current strength of the brand is the community and the add-ons they provide. Over time, SI run the risk that people drop out of the community, drop out of other FM communities and so on. One should also consider that the FM Brand gets very positive treatment in computer game magazines, newspapers etc. But, damage the community, upset those journalists, and that positive publicity will reduce and there could even be a risk of some negative publicity. This would have a significant impact on sales.

Even if we take the view of a relatively small fall in sales, the effect on margins will be bigger, given that I would expect a business like SI have a high % of fixed costs.

[Egan]

So, Steam only then regardless. Goodbye and thanks for all the fish. It's been a fun 15 years or so.

[data6930]

It is amazing this thread has had more responses than the thread announcing the game!!

[7Bestie7]

I do love how everyone who is claiming SI/SEGA should change their decision for this year's version are completely ignoring the fact that the game is scheduled to come out in one month. Are you willing to help fund the entire recall, re-programming and redistribution? Especially since if SI/SEGA actually listened to you, it would probably set the release date back which would be something else for you to complain about.

It's a done decision. Rather than getting on your high horses about how they aren't listening or taking us for granted, the sensible thing is to wait to see how this year goes with using Steam and then what happens after that. If installing a third party software isn't something you want to do (believe me, I understand the reservations) then don't buy this version or any other version which has the same issue.

Seriously guys, how many people here are still playing older version of FM? Those who don't like Steam, just keep playing FM11 for another year and enjoy that game.

[SazoJohnno]

This is fine by me no problem at all. I have been using steam for years now and I never had any problem with it at all. Good move.

[Lord Rowell]

I do love how everyone who is claiming SI/SEGA should change their decision for this year's version are completely ignoring the fact that the game is scheduled to come out in one month. Are you willing to help fund the entire recall, re-programming and redistribution? Especially since if SI/SEGA actually listened to you, it would probably set the release date back which would be something else for you to complain about.

It's a done decision. Rather than getting on your high horses about how they aren't listening or taking us for granted, the sensible thing is to wait to see how this year goes with using Steam and then what happens after that. If installing a third party software isn't something you want to do (believe me, I understand the reservations) then don't buy this version or any other version which has the same issue.

Seriously guys, how many people here are still playing older version of FM? Those who don't like Steam, just keep playing FM11 for another year and enjoy that game.

No, I don't think your suggestion is the sensible one at all. We as a community, whether against or in favour, need to give SI feedback on the decisions they have made.

As has been said by numerous people here, lots of us won't be buying the game and SI need to know this, know the reasons why, and begin to understand the consequences of their actions.

[0gris]

I certainly won't argue with your numbers, it sounds like you know your stuff :-)

I don't think there will be a massive short-term impact so we are in agreement there. What is more likely to happen is that there will be a gradual, long term effect on the FM Brand. A big current strength of the brand is the community and the add-ons they provide. Over time, SI run the risk that people drop out of the community, drop out of other FM communities and so on. One should also consider that the FM Brand gets very positive treatment in computer game magazines, newspapers etc. But, damage the community, upset those journalists, and that positive publicity will reduce and there could even be a risk of some negative publicity. This would have a significant impact on sales.

Even if we take the view of a relatively small fall in sales, the effect on margins will be bigger, given that I would expect a business like SI have a high % of fixed costs.

Indeed, long term sales numbers... that is something i can't predict. Sales will fall off, could be due to franchise fatigue, could be due to steam... You have a good point with the damage part, journalists are supposed to be neutral but we all know how that goes. In the long term, sales impact would have to be seen, as you stated it could be quite a significant impact(i wont lie, a positive impact is hugely unlikely), but it depends on what you view significant as. We'll just have to wait and see the sales numbers for the FM franchise a few years down the line, it could go the way of EHM. Time to play the waiting game.

The profit margins depend on where the game is sold. A company makes 30% profit margin in retail, compared to 70% on steam(rough estimates, but those seem to be the most common number being put up by developers and industry insiders), so even if the game sells less, it's the ratio of retailD sales that'll dictate the profit margin. Whether it'll cover the costs, i have no bloody idea.

I hate numbers

[Lambie\'s Lovechild]

I get the game through Steam most years anyway, but agree the only losers herer are those without internet connections, [primarily those in less well off countries]. Wont massively affect the current userbase, but will harm the expansion of the product into developing markets.

[b.paterson]

Guys. I think we've basically covered every topic of conversation / issue that's been discussed. I'm really not sure what else we can say except to thank you for your opinion and say that, for those that want the information, we'll look at at releasing more info on Steam. To confirm what we do know. From our FM09 activation - we learned that, for every person playing the game legitimately, at least three others are playing cracked versions.

Steam isn't something that's going to kill your computer. It is something that you need to download to play the game this year, but we're not going to apologise for the anti-piracy measure we feel we had to take (and once again it is an anti-piracy measure). There are some great things we've learned from this thread about how you guys play this game alongside other Steam games and how it's genuinely affected how you play the game for example.

Some things that we'll genuinely look at making better in the future, but we're not going to change our long term anti-piracy stance. I hope even the most critical of you can understand that we're doing this to protect the future of FM and make sure that, not only that we can still make the game in years to come, but we can make sure that SI can continue to make it the game that has made these forums such a vibrant and informed place to get your passionate feedback.

Thanks for all of your comments so far, we truly do appreciate a lot of the constructive feedback / discussion.

I have been playing the Fm games since 2007 (introduction of the A-League in Australia) however I have tried the steam method of playing this game however due to my current living arrangement we can only use dial-up as the home owners won't allow broadband installation, due to this when I try and use steam it either won't connect or it takes several hours do download, connect, update, etc. (because of this I can't switch to OFFLINE MODE) .

I also noticed you said that all updates will go through steam to me this means when I go to download an update of 500MB it will take up to a fortnight (minimum) with a download manager does STEAM work like a Download Manager ?

You are penalising people who can't afford broadband (country charges too much for small download limits)/have limited and difficult living arrangements and by forcing people to go onto a service which is unstable will actually reduce the amount of people playing the game .

Please keep a Offline/Non-STEAM activation method as I won't be purchasing another FM game as you are penalising the poorer gamers out there with this STEAM initiative .

Regards, but not excited about this development...

[-SL]

Can the same saves be used while turning online steam on and off (eg. a holiday in non internet zone -> same save useable?)

[Rb]

Can the same saves be used while turning online steam on and off (eg. a holiday in non internet zone -> same save useable?)

Yes they can.

[0gris]

Yes. Saves are compatible with any version, online or offline.

Edit: Ninjas all around i tell you.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

I always have Steam open anyway, so the decision doesn't affect me. Even moreso because I won't be getting the game anyway. But those who are upset at the decision:

- You don't have to buy the game, vote with your wallets
- SI can do what they want and don't owe you anything, regardless of how many years you've been buying their product
- The FM franchise will not grind to a halt because of this decision, if anything it'll probably outsell last year's
- The same feedback and predictions that it will damage the brand have been made for the last 4 years ever since activation was introduced
- There is absolutely nothing wrong or dangerous about having Steam installed, it may be time for you to have to move in to the 21st century, I know, I know, change is scary

Do you really think Steam is going to blow up your laptop or get it full of viruses or something and you'll end up losing all your documents, etc...?!

My God! In what age do we liveeeeee!!!!!!!

An ignorant and selfish one perhaps. Are Steam paying you a commission? Why are you and several others on here having a go at people who are not happy with SIs decision regarding Steam activation only? How can you take offence on behalf of a company?
You don't see people coming here to attack people who like/have no problem with steam, I'm sure most of them are as happy for you as I am, that you are OK with Steam and SI's decision. We have come to express their concerns about this decision, why do you have a problem with that?

And if you must use the word "World", please take into account that it is somewhat bigger than your local area.

Cheers
xxx

[Clampos]

As the OP said you can run steam offline. If this reduces piracy it is worth it. Not only does piracy damage the games industry and make games more expensive for us it also funds organised crime.

Also as someone who originally hated steam I can tell you it grows on you. I now buy 90% of my games through it out of convenience.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

So the poll on the other tread was closed ? Right.

Yes. Neil Brock (SI) didn't like it.

[0gris]

An ignorant and selfish one perhaps. Are Steam paying you a commission? Why are you and several others on here having a go at people who are not happy with SIs decision regarding Steam activation only? How can you take offence on behalf of a company?
You don't see people coming here to attack people who like/have no problem with steam, I'm sure most of them are as happy for you as I am, that you are OK with Steam and SI's decision. We have come to express their concerns about this decision, why do you have a problem with that?

And if you must use the word "World", please take into account that it is somewhat bigger than your local area.

Cheers
xxx

We're only looking for people to provide rational reasons for why steam is a bad thing. While you have some in this forum who make a good case for why it is a bad thing most of it stems from the simple human resistance to change.

[7Bestie7]

No, I don't think your suggestion is the sensible one at all. We as a community, whether against or in favour, need to give SI feedback on the decisions they have made.

As has been said by numerous people here, lots of us won't be buying the game and SI need to know this, know the reasons why, and begin to understand the consequences of their actions.

Feedback is one thing, some of the stuff that's been thrown about this thread is another. Especially in relation to how people are responding to being told there's nothing to be done if they won't install Steam. It's a made decision for this year.

And "consequences of their actions" is a bit high-and-mighty an attitude to take. I'd estimate that it's probably around 50/50 or 60/40 on members here to use Steam and this place is far from the majority of FM users out there. While I don't like the idea of using Steam, I'll give it a go because I've used 3rd party software in the past. If it winds up that this year ends up being a bad year for customer satisfaction then I'm sure SI/SEGA will look at something new. The level of complaints and attitude which is being thrown about with a month left until release date is mind boggling.

[Ackter]

Yes. Neil Brock (SI) didn't like it.

As mentioned earlier, it was closed because it was effectively a carbon copy of this thread. It's best to keep everyone's opinions in this one thread as it's a lot easier to gauge everything.

What people are saying is far more important than the poll bit of the last thread.

[Lord Rowell]

We're only looking for people to provide rational reasons for why steam is a bad thing. While you have some in this forum who make a good case for why it is a bad thing most of it stems from the simple human resistance to change.

I think you're doing that :-)

But many people here aren't, they're just mis-representing the position of those who disagree with them and getting as close to insulting behaviour as possible without being banned. I really wouldn't ally yourself with some of the folk on here.

[stevetranmere]

As mentioned earlier, it was closed because it was effectively a carbon copy of this thread. It's best to keep everyone's opinions in this one thread as it's a lot easier to gauge everything.

What people are saying is far more important than the poll bit of the last thread.

But the poll gave us a NUMBER of people, SI are saying they took this measure because of the NUMBER of people pirating the game( a number which they refuse to release). They obviously dont want us to see this data either.

[0gris]

I think you're doing that :-)

But many people here aren't, they're just mis-representing the position of those who disagree with them and getting as close to insulting behaviour as possible without being banned. I really wouldn't ally yourself with some of the folk on here.

You're having extremes on both sides though really. At this point i'll retire from this thread; It's probably best to have the smoke blow over and see what happens. Some people will get used to steam, some wont. I guess we'll see what's going to happen in a month and a bit. And there's simply nothing more for me to say rather than just repeating what i said; And then you have people ignoring what you say and endlessly hammering their point in and it's pretty obvious they dont want to hear anyone but themselves speak.

In the end i just hope everyone will be able to enjoy FM12, steam or not.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

But that's one of the reasons that we opted for Steam, it really is quite an unobtrusive solution that almost seamlessly keeps you up to date.

You see what you did there?

[Lord Rowell]

As mentioned earlier, it was closed because it was effectively a carbon copy of this thread. It's best to keep everyone's opinions in this one thread as it's a lot easier to gauge everything.

What people are saying is far more important than the poll bit of the last thread.

It was not a carbon copy, because unlike this thread it had a poll, which provides quantitative data on the opinion of this community.

You say that what people are saying on this thread is more important than the poll bit of the other thread. You may think that. I may think differently. We can disagree. But when Neil Brock closed the poll thread, the decision was made for everyone and it smacks of authoritarianism.

[jpwild]

Will people need Steam to be able to use or install the forthcoming Demo?

[Barside]

We're only looking for people to provide rational reasons for why steam is a bad thing. While you have some in this forum who make a good case for why it is a bad thing most of it stems from the simple human resistance to change.

When Steam was first introduced I suffered major compatibility issues with the software, I accept that the functionality has no doubt improved but my trust in the software is non-existent.

With this in mind I did give it another go & installed it this morning only to have all manner of problems resetting my password. Being asked the following secret question was inspiring, 'What did customer support last reset your passphrase to?'

Why would I know the passphrase when I came here because I can't remember the password that I set over 3 years ago & haven't used since?

I finally managed to get to a password reset page so thinking that everything was done I shut down Steam & then re-launched to login only to be told that my account/password was invalid & was forced back to step 1, any trust that could have been regained has now gone.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

We have, just waiting for them to update it. They're busy being a generally great solution to online activation I suppose

Inspiring stuff. I'm gradually getting on board.

[pauly1616]

Freedom of speech dead on SI forums! Can't have a poll about STEAM.

[SuperManager]

You guys should all be open-minded, while I don't want to use Steam, I will have a go! If it doesn't work then SI/SEGA will change it next year...

[Ackter]

Freedom of speech dead on SI forums! Can't have a poll about STEAM.

Or you could use this thread to discuss it. Another thread isn't needed.

[jpwild]

Sega, when you use the word 'cracked' are you referring to a person downloading FM from internet and playing it without paying? I.e, a torrent.

or

Are you referring to no-cd cracks for people who have bought the game?

Just looking for clarification as both situations are not the same and can blur statistics, as you well know.

[Ackter]

Sega, when you use the word 'cracked' are you referring to a person downloading FM from internet and playing it without paying? I.e, a torrent.

or

Are you referring to no-cd cracks for people who have bought the game?

Just looking for clarification as both situations are not the same, as you well know.

Both are illegal activities as they bypass the copy protection and alter the exe.

[pauly1616]

Or you could use this thread to discuss it. Another thread isn't needed.

I wasn't creating another thread, I was creating a poll. I will try once more so you can ring the death gong over freedom of speech finally and terribly!

[jpwild]

Both are illegal activities as they bypass the copy protection and alter the exe.

The latter is a grey area as people may pay for the game, keep it but use NOCD crack for convenience.

So the figures quoted by Sega include the NOCD crack situation for people who buy and keep the game.

I'd love to see stats comparing people who bought the game legally to those who downloaded it illegally.

I think I've just proved that Sega have been creative with their statistics figures.

[Nikki-]

Consider this.

Don't you feel like you are in some way encouraging people to illegally download the game? Seeing as a lot of people really, really don't want to use Steam and I am sure that some group will release a version of FM that does not require one to use Steam?

Not that I am advocating it, of course.

[Ackter]

The latter is a grey area as people may pay for the game, keep it but use NOCD crack for convenience.

So the figures quoted by Sega include the NOCD crack situation for people who buy and keep the game.

I'd love to see stats comparing people who bought the game legally to those who downloaded it illegally.

I think I've just proved that Sega have been creative with their statistics figures.

It's not a grey area at all.

[Lord Rowell]

Or you could use this thread to discuss it. Another thread isn't needed.

Yes, I agree with you on that one.

But what about the poll? When you closed the thread, you closed the poll as well.

Do you really think the benefits of having the discussion in one place (this thread), outweigh the bad feeling created by closing the poll?

[Ackter]

I wasn't creating another thread, I was creating a poll. I will try once more so you can ring the death gong over freedom of speech finally and terribly!

And it will also be closed - it will just be another thread containing the exact same opinions by the exact same users involved in this thread. It would just be superfluous.

[jpwild]

Consider this.

Don't you feel like you are in some way encouraging people to illegally download the game? Seeing as a lot of people really, really don't want to use Steam and I am sure that some group will release a version of FM that does not require one to use Steam?

Not that I am advocating it, of course.

Sega and SI encourage the circumvention of trademark holders' rights. I.e, LNC fix. Whilst they don't like it talked about on here they seem to continue the implementation of the circumvention in the game by allowing a few files to be changed in a folder. Very convenient that. Hypocrites. It's purposely implemented to allow such change.

[Barside]

I wasn't creating another thread, I was creating a poll. I will try once more so you can ring the death gong over freedom of speech finally and terribly!

That will not be helpful.

[jpwild]

It's not a grey area at all.

It is.

It's distorting a statistic.

Once again I'd like to know the statistics of people who bought the game against people who downloaded illegally. People who use NOCD cracks on their paid game should not be included as it distorts the statistic, rather conveniently.

[pauly1616]

And it will also be closed - it will just be another thread containing the exact same opinions by the exact same users involved in this thread. It would just be superfluous.

No it would not. It would allow the people who didn't get to express their opinion before the other thread was closer to do so.

[PutzMan]

It's not a grey area at all.

It kind of is.... I can't cite anything, but I vaguely remember there being a right that you are allowed to make copies of installed software for your own use and archival purposes only.

If you just mount a .iso of your game disk, effectively it's a No-CD crack, but also one of those archival methods.

[stevetranmere]

And it will also be closed - it will just be another thread containing the exact same opinions by the exact same users involved in this thread. It would just be superfluous.

can you add a poll to this thread?

ask the right question aswell.

With the STEAM activation method, Will you be purchasing football manager 2012?

Yes
No

[SuperManager]

can you add a poll to this thread?

I second that

[mrstef]

My laptop cant access the internet. iv messed around with settings and im not the best with computers and i dnt know how to fix it.

I cant afford for someone to sort it for me. WHAT AM I MEANT TO DO??


Iv bought the game every year since champ man started

Tell me how this is fair please

[SuperManager]

Also, why couldn't SI have done a poll?

[SuperManager]

My laptop cant access the internet. iv messed around with settings and im not the best with computers and i dnt know how to fix it.

I cant afford for someone to sort it for me. WHAT AM I MEANT TO DO??


Iv bought the game every year since champ man started

Tell me how this is fair please

Maybe use the computer you are on now?

[mrstef]

this is a joke

[Barside]

What if that is a work PC or a post made via a mobile phone?

[Lord Rowell]

As I've said in the new poll thread (which may yet be closed) I'm not sure a new poll will be much use now.

When the poll started the issue was fresh. Since then, I suspect some people have moved on from this board. Hence, I'm not sure a new poll would be representative.

The damage has been done by SI. Not only have they upset their customers on this board with the compulsory Steam activation, they've alienated people by closing a poll that quantified their opinions. In both instances, they've demonstrated, IMO, that they really don't care about their customers or this community at all.

[Cougar2010]

We're only looking for people to provide rational reasons for why steam is a bad thing. While you have some in this forum who make a good case for why it is a bad thing most of it stems from the simple human resistance to change.

and those reasons have been provided by intelligent users (inc several mods) already in the thread, what should be even more concerning to SI/Sega is that a lot of these users already use Steam.

If well respected members of the forum who are experienced PC/FM/Steam users are telling you its a bad idea then the alarm bells should be ringing but I suspect those that made this decision aren't really interested in those opinions and probably won't even look in this forum.

[mrstef]

this is my girlfriends mac. i dnt want to use it and she wont want me to use it

[kwillett]

Maybe use the computer you are on now?

He paid for the game, he should be able to install it on whichever PC he wishes.
PS he may not be using his own pc at the moment (Im not) or he may be posting from his mobile.

[dave byrd]

It's a simple fact that the people who pirate the game still will do, regardless of the copy protection used by SI/SEGA.

This decision just punishes the honest folk who do not wish to use steam like myself and thousands of others.

[data6930]

I third it, why not have a poll contained in this thread??

I second that

[Chris22]

I am Going to Stick with FM11 this Year
i Had Problems with Steam with FM10 it was making my PC run Slow

[SuperManager]

He paid for the game, he should be able to install it on whichever PC he wishes.
PS he may not be using his own pc at the moment (Im not) or he may be posting from his mobile.

Should really of thought about that, sorry. My fault!

In that case, he/you make a damn good point.

[mrstef]

Iv never used a illegal copy. never thought about it and i would never use 1

Im extremely disappointed about this

[SuperManager]

Iv never used a illegal copy. never thought about it and i would never use 1

Im extremely disappointed about this

Yet again the minority screw it up for the majority.

[data6930]

SI listened to the Commmunity SEGA doesn't. Simples!

[stevie_G_32201]

Im wondering when we will see 500 threads asking about the demo release

[juvito2k]

Im wondering when we will see 500 threads asking about the demo release

When demo is out here, you will see the over 9000 treads in tactics forum!!!

[mrstef]

Im wondering when we will see 500 threads asking about the demo release

whats the purpose of this post?

[max-riot]

OK then so i downloaded this steam, and for over half an hour trying to register a new account all i get is this




looks like i won't be playing FM12 this year

[stevie_G_32201]

whats the purpose of this post?

It's a yearly tradition, the threads are late this year if im honest.

[mrstef]

It's a yearly tradition, the threads are late this year if im honest.

But this thread is not about that is it

[BuryBlade]

OK then so i downloaded this steam, and for over half an hour trying to register a new account all i get is this




looks like i won't be playing FM12 this year

Haha this made me laugh, as if I needed any more persuading, I definititely wont be using Steam- I tried it for 09 and was not impressed. Cue all those pro Steam jumping to depend it.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

We're only looking for people to provide rational reasons for why steam is a bad thing. While you have some in this forum who make a good case for why it is a bad thing most of it stems from the simple human resistance to change.

What about people who object on principle? Why are you personally looking for people to provide what you consider to be rational reasons?

Also I have seen some people trashed for saying they have used Steam and didn't like it, why should they provide you with a detailed explanation of their experience? I believe you when you say you have only positive experiences with Steam, why aren't people who express the opposite given the same respect?

[Lord Rowell]

Im wondering when we will see 500 threads asking about the demo release

Not sure we will this time round. I think SI's actions have killed a great deal of the enthusiasm.

[data6930]

I think people expected FM2012 to be the same format as last year, remember they went to having a DVD in the drive to play the game after Steam proved to be a nightmare, more costly and unpopular, strange they have reverted to steam only, the decision has taken people by surprise and thus players of the game, like myself, are not happy with the decision.

[SeanNUFC]

OK then so i downloaded this steam, and for over half an hour trying to register a new account all i get is this




looks like i won't be playing FM12 this year

Never happened to me. Only quits when my internet connection cuts out.

[stevie_G_32201]

But this thread is not about that is it

Irrelevant, not worth creating a new thread just to say that.

Not sure we will this time round. I think SI's actions have killed a great deal of the enthusiasm.

Im sure they have, i do see the advantages of their decision but i do not agree with the path they have took. I can understand it, but i do not support it.

[Rober82]

Yes. Neil Brock (SI) didn't like it.

Suprising.

[mrstef]

[QUOTE=stevie_G_32201;7081869]Irrelevant, not worth creating a new thread just to say that.

no, your post was irrelevant

[Rhazmuz]

red alert!!! ONE user has had an issue with STEAM, and he is unable to grasp how to make a user.. Initiate abort procedure for FM12 STEAM activation

[stevie_G_32201]

[QUOTE=mrstef;7081878]

Irrelevant, not worth creating a new thread just to say that.

no, your post was irrelevant

And all these questions your asking about 1 post are relevant are they? Look who's talking...

[kwillett]

red alert!!! ONE user has had an issue with STEAM, and he is unable to grasp how to make a user.. Initiate abort procedure for FM12 STEAM activation

twerp alert

[mrstef]

[QUOTE=stevie_G_32201;7081884]

And all these questions your asking about 1 post are relevant are they? Look who's talking...

no, your post was irrelevant. That is not a question is it

[stevie_G_32201]

[QUOTE=mrstef;7081890]

no, your post was irrelevant. That is not a question is it

your posts about my posts are not relevant either.

[weeeman27bob]

I don't see why people are harping after a poll. SI and SEGA won't be making any decisions based off that, it'll all be done off sales figures.

[mrstef]

can someone from SI tell me what im going to do about not having working internet access?

I take it im now going to miss out

Will you pay for my laptop to be fixed please. Just send me a cheque please

[mrstef]

[QUOTE=stevie_G_32201;7081894]

your posts about my posts are not relevant either.

None of it is i suppose. Im just pissed off

[João Miguel Pereira]

Just lost 1 hour trying to open an account with steam. Every time i would press "next", it would fail to connect to the server. On a 24MB connection that is not normal. After finally being able to register i decided to go offline on steam. BAD MOVE! Everything started to crash. Had to end 4 processes that stopped working and restart my computer.

[DeadPanda]

I still cant work out quite why people have such major issues with using Steam. Or why they are all getting so worked up over using it and what not. I use Steam, never had an issue. Everyone I know that has used steam hasnt had any issues, either. It works seamlessly, automatically updates things, and this only requires the internet to start with then never again. Being forced to use a program people dont want to use... not like it will kill you. I just feel people are making something out of very little here tbh. Ah well. I dont really care anyway, I'll be getting it still. Glad its been using steam, keeps my collection in one place. makes it easy to play anywhere, anytime.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

red alert!!! ONE user has had an issue with STEAM, and he is unable to grasp how to make a user.. Initiate abort procedure for FM12 STEAM activation

Why do you feel the need to post this?

EDIT: Check post #1096

[Rober82]

First off, its the wrong decision.

Secondly, youve left it VERY late on, when people will have pre-ordered the game, before releasing this info which changes evereything for a lot of people.
This stinks. You released all the new features, the trailers, the blogs, the articles.

And then 4 weeks before release: ( OH by the way, you wont be able to play the game like you used to!)


Shame on you.

[Alebit]

I can top that.

i'm not gonna buy fm anymore, because of steam "decision".

thanks SIGAMES for your decision, i don't agree with you.

quite upset about....but, that's all.

i will quit FM\CM after 10-11 years (i have all original copy of the game).