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Thread: A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    I dont think there are any possible legal implications, they are not forcing you to now switch to steam for any of their products you currently own, they have made it perfectly clear if you want to play their new game you need to activate it through a free third party, if you dont want to use steam you dont buy their product.
    I did say that I am not an expert on the relevant law & that I was only trying to convey what had already been posted as the pots I qouted didn't understand the point raised.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dune297 View Post
    It uses at most 200k of resources.
    It uses 69mb on mine when minimized and no games running.

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    My intial reaction was that I won't be buying the game, as I only seem to hear bad press about Steam.

    But, I understand that I have to install the Steam client on my computer, but what exactly does this client do? What is running in the background? Does my Internet connection have to be running to be able to play the game, or can I switch my router off.

    I'm not being paranoid, but I really do object to having to install further (unwanted) software, in order to play a game that I have legally purchased.

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    Really can not understand all the hate towards Steam.

    I have been using Steam for over 5 years and had only 1 problem in that time,which sorted itself out in 2 days.

    The Steam client takes mere seconds to download and after you register the game you never ever have to switch Steam on again...well until the next edition of FM that is :P

    I have quite a few games on Steam and play on it regularly both single player games and multi player games...not sure why so many people are so paranoid over it.

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    Although I haven't had an answer yet, they mentioned that the above would apply to all disc versions. Any bought via digital download will most likely not need to be activated by Steam. So if you don't like Steam, buy it online. www.fmscout.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmastermind124 View Post
    Although I haven't had an answer yet, they mentioned that the above would apply to all disc versions. Any bought via digital download will most likely not need to be activated by Steam. So if you don't like Steam, buy it online. www.fmscout.com
    What about the people with limited monthly downloads?

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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmastermind124 View Post
    Although I haven't had an answer yet, they mentioned that the above would apply to all disc versions. Any bought via digital download will most likely not need to be activated by Steam. So if you don't like Steam, buy it online. www.fmscout.com
    If it's Steamworks, it's Steamworks. If you purchased it on Green Man Gaming for instance, it would say under it "This game requires Steam™ in order to install and run and so cannot be traded or refunded."

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevie_G_32201 View Post
    What about the people with limited monthly downloads?
    They can't have everything. They'd only need to download it the once anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazaru5 View Post
    Exactly! And I won't
    You really are cutting off your nose to spite your face, you clearly enjoy FM, you wont win anything by taking your stance, the only person who will suffer is you, this is happening no matter what anyone on here says, either get with it or your going to miss out on a game many of you have enjoyed for the best part of 10 years. All because you dont really know much about a program you need to unlock the game. Your Xbox and PS3 will take more info from you than steam does, but no one cares that much, i have had steam for as long as its been around, never had my account hacked, never had any issues at all in anyway, i leave it signed in at all times and to unless you have the same password for your steam account and email account the chances of being hacked are slim to none. Its no more unsafe than any application anyone uses online.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmastermind124 View Post
    They can't have everything. They'd only need to download it the once anyway.
    Irrelevant and not exactly. There is always the possibility of a corrupt download, There will be too many obstacles to overcome in this years version for some people in my opinion.

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    Long-time lurker here, and I have loved CM and FM for many years.

    Sega and Sports Interactive have, of course, every right to protect their software and if they want to link with Steam platform then that's fully within their rights.

    However, I don't think this is just to prevent the issues of piracy. As others have stated that other software has been 'leaked' on to the internet in spite of it being linked to the Steam platform.
    Is it also the case that by forcing it to activate via Steam you are also preventing use of the game before that date. So this could be a method to try and prevent that? Maybe some of your retail partners are not happy that other retailers sell the game early?

    Could it also prevent the re-sale issue too? For example with Football Manager 2011 it was possible to link the game with Steam and then put the game on Ebay for sale with the caveat that it may not work with Steam, but was fine to play of the disc.

    I have no problem with Steam, but I can fully understand as to why people may not want it on their computer.

    I think I may skip this product if the Steam activation is going to be mandatory. It's just not my cup of tea.

    Some good games coming out over the coming months. My money will be going to Uncharted 3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmastermind124 View Post
    They can't have everything. They'd only need to download it the once anyway.
    They'd just buy the dvd. They're not moving away from selling pyhsical copies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    You really are cutting off your nose to spite your face, you clearly enjoy FM, you wont win anything by taking your stance, the only person who will suffer is you, this is happening no matter what anyone on here says, either get with it or your going to miss out on a game many of you have enjoyed for the best part of 10 years. All because you dont really know much about a program you need to unlock the game. Your Xbox and PS3 will take more info from you than steam does, but no one cares that much, i have had steam for as long as its been around, never had my account hacked, never had any issues at all in anyway, i leave it signed in at all times and to unless you have the same password for your steam account and email account the chances of being hacked are slim to none. Its no more unsafe than any application anyone uses online.
    mp, I've played the game for nigh on 20 years, not 10, and I will gladly take the stance as I refuse to be forced by the coprporate giants to bend to their will, they can go KMA for all I care, there is nil chance of me installing Steam just to play the only game that I play. I'll just stick with FM11 until SI/Sega decide to stop forcing people to do things they have no desire to do...

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    It would just be nice if someone gave us the real reasons and not the anti-piracy rhetoric. That's the problem with SEGA, they're not honest with their customers at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edwingray View Post
    My intial reaction was that I won't be buying the game, as I only seem to hear bad press about Steam.

    But, I understand that I have to install the Steam client on my computer, but what exactly does this client do? What is running in the background? Does my Internet connection have to be running to be able to play the game, or can I switch my router off.

    I'm not being paranoid, but I really do object to having to install further (unwanted) software, in order to play a game that I have legally purchased.

    The Steam client acts as a buffer for registering the game, this is an attempt to cut-down on the piracy. The client will also, when online mode keep your acheivements up-to-date, with Steam offline your achievements aren't recorded, it will also, when online download any patches or updates for the game.

    The internet connection only has to be on to install Steam. Once installed you can unplug your internet and swing it over it your head cowboy style and the game will still run but you have to have Steam running in the background.

    If you don't have Steam running you can't play the game. But it just has to be in the system tray.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barside View Post
    Achievments do not enhance my gaming experience, I don't care to automatic downloads as I'm quite capable of doing this myself & using torrents has always given me good download speeds because I'm not a leech.

    I'm sorry to say that unless I can be convinced that Steam has changed it will not be getting anywhere near my rig, I installed it when it was first used for FM activation & I removed it after 3 days because it was an intrusive, data mining annoyance that I had no trust or confidence in.


    Obviously you cannot discuss numbers & I wouldn't expect you to do so but was there an identifiable reduction in retail volumes when you removed the need for Steam activation? I assume you've factored in the economic downturn & any changes in territories the game is sold in.

    Basically I do not accept the arguement that is always made of 'we will sell more with this measure in place', I am however open to accept facts when they speak for themselves.

    Edit: Time to research Steam & update my knowledge base.
    Hi Barside - Appreciate your opinion, but as detialed in the post this decision was by absolutely no means taken lightly. Last year we couldn't find what we felt was an acceptable solution. This year we believe we have. Unfortunately I can't disclose any numbers on sales in this forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazaru5 View Post
    mp, I've played the game for nigh on 20 years, not 10, and I will gladly take the stance as I refuse to be forced by the coprporate giants to bend to their will, they can go KMA for all I care, there is nil chance of me installing Steam just to play the only game that I play. I'll just stick with FM11 until SI/Sega decide to stop forcing people to do things they have no desire to do...
    Looks like your not playing anymore new versions of FM then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmastermind124 View Post
    Although I haven't had an answer yet, they mentioned that the above would apply to all disc versions. Any bought via digital download will most likely not need to be activated by Steam. So if you don't like Steam, buy it online. www.fmscout.com
    They mention Steam compatability so it looks like official digi downlands will have to be activated vai Steam.

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    Altough i can understand the decision from SI/SEGA, i dont see this as a contribute to reduce piracy. IMO wont have any effect on the 25% piracy ratio.

    For me, this is perhaps, the first step to end the disc version of FM, and perhaps FM2013 or FM2014 will be exclusive from steam!

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    The great irony is that protection measures have in many cases lead to increases in piracy. In this case however I think we should accept SEGA and SI's decision and to be perfectly honest they have been fair in recent times, especially after the disaster of their last attempt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevie_G_32201 View Post
    Looks like your not playing anymore new versions of FM then.
    I'm afraid you may be right

    It's a shame really cos FM12 looks like it's gonna be immense. *sighs*

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    i'm like jpwild in that im a long time lurker. I also hate the fact that steam has become mandatory. I tried it once and hated it. It is something that i categorically do not want on my pc. My pre-order has been cancelled and i was really looking forward to it having played the series since cm 97/98. Think i'll stick to FIFA this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazaru5 View Post
    mp, I've played the game for nigh on 20 years, not 10, and I will gladly take the stance as I refuse to be forced by the coprporate giants to bend to their will, they can go KMA for all I care, there is nil chance of me installing Steam just to play the only game that I play. I'll just stick with FM11 until SI/Sega decide to stop forcing people to do things they have no desire to do...
    But why, what is it about steam that would make you never want to play FM again?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyzer Soze View Post
    Altough i can understand the decision from SI/SEGA, i dont see this as a contribute to reduce piracy. IMO wont have any effect on the 25% piracy ratio.

    For me, this is perhaps, the first step to end the disc version of FM, and perhaps FM2013 or FM2014 will be exclusive from steam!
    Which would be an absolute farce, because Steam pricing is all over the place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David - SEGA View Post
    Hi Barside - Appreciate your opinion, but as detialed in the post this decision was by absolutely no means taken lightly. Last year we couldn't find what we felt was an acceptable solution. This year we believe we have. Unfortunately I can't disclose any numbers on sales in this forum.
    David, I appreciate you posting & as I said I fully understand & didn't expect or want sales figures to be posted but surely you can honestly inform the community if there is hard data to support the supposition that Steam activation reduces piracy & increases retail unit volumes, I remember having this very same discussion with Matt a few years ago on another forum & the arguement never seemed to stack up.

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    The people in the industry are so out of touch with the consumer when it comes to DRM...

    shocking decision.

    The consumer is always punished and blamed when big companies can't reach their targets (because that little less profit just wont do!)
    Last edited by Wiggins' Young Boys; 16-09-2011 at 15:46.

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    There's many advantages to using the Steam platform, but yes, certainly the copy-protection aspect heavily influenced the decision. Also the easiness of patching for the users is another major advantage of using the Steam platform. Obviously this is the first year we've gone down this avenue and we haven't made this decision lightly - rest assured we'll as always try and be thorough as possible on these forums in attempting to help any user encountering difficulties or simply has a question about Steam/FM prior to release.

    Wakers no offence but I don't really know what else you expect Sega to say? Everyone is well aware piracy is a massive problem within PC/Mac gaming and sadly many games companies have gone bust or stopped releasing games (RIP EHM) due to battles with piracy which have unfortunately been lost.

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    You know this is not what your customers want yet press ahead regardless. Backwards thinking from a company still living in the 90's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barside View Post
    David, I appreciate you posting & as I said I fully understand & didn't expect or want sales figures to be posted but surely you can honestly inform the community if there is hard data to support the supposition that Steam activation reduces piracy & increases retail unit volumes, I remember having this very same discussion with Matt a few years ago on another forum & the arguement never seemed to stack up.
    It doesn't stack up. Piracy is not the reason for this, it's more to do with some other corporate issues that they don't want to comment on. Possibly future plans for the franchise, or disputes between retailers who ship out the game early and so on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by djvandyke View Post
    You know this is not what your customers want yet press ahead regardless. Backwards thinking from a company still living in the 90's.
    You can't speak for all the customers. I, for one, am very happy about this decision and hope all SI's future games are Steamworks.

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    Oh well that's the end of an era for me - been playing CM/FM for near enough sixteen years now.

    Won't be buying the game whilst being made to install something I don't want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Brock View Post
    There's many advantages to using the Steam platform, but yes, certainly the copy-protection aspect heavily influenced the decision. Also the easiness of patching for the users is another major advantage of using the Steam platform. Obviously this is the first year we've gone down this avenue and we haven't made this decision lightly - rest assured we'll as always try and be thorough as possible on these forums in attempting to help any user encountering difficulties or simply has a question about Steam/FM prior to release.

    Wakers no offence but I don't really know what else you expect Sega to say? Everyone is well aware piracy is a massive problem within PC/Mac gaming and sadly many games companies have gone bust or stopped releasing games (RIP EHM) due to battles with piracy which have unfortunately been lost.
    I would appreciate it if everyone stopped hiding behind the piracy excuse.

    I appreciate that Steam makes it incredibly easy to push out updates, and to keep graphics drivers up to date, but it does nothing against piracy - if anything it will drive a new section of potential or existing customers towards it. Steam has several advantages, but it also has a lot of disadvantages which are far too easily swept under the carpet.

    That and forcing someone who's purchased the game to install third party software is not a good way to treat customers. It should be an option, it should not be mandatory.

    Again, Steam does nothing against piracy, so I struggle to believe that is the actual reason for this decision.

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    Software like STEAM is the future, better get on the digital wagon.

    Ive used STEAM for some years now, and I havent received bad/intrusive mails, phonecalls, knocks on my door late at night, nor suspicious PC behaviour.

    STEAM is not the work of Satan, so please try it out eh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dune297 View Post
    You can't speak for all the customers. I, for one, am very happy about this decision and hope all SI's future games are Steamworks.
    Fair enough, I should say a significant proportion of customers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakers View Post
    I would appreciate it if everyone stopped hiding behind the piracy excuse.

    I appreciate that Steam makes it incredibly easy to push out updates, and to keep graphics drivers up to date, but it does nothing against piracy - if anything it will drive a new section of potential or existing customers towards it. Steam has several advantages, but it also has a lot of disadvantages which are far too easily swept under the carpet.

    That and forcing someone who's purchased the game to install third party software is not a good way to treat customers. It should be an option, it should not be mandatory.

    Again, Steam does nothing against piracy, so I struggle to believe that is the actual reason for this decision.
    We obviously cannot release specific facts and figures but we wouldn't be making this decision blindly if Steam did absolutely nothing against piracy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhazmuz View Post
    Software like STEAM is the future, better get on the digital wagon.

    Ive used STEAM for some years now, and I havent received bad/intrusive mails, phonecalls, knocks on my door late at night, nor suspicious PC behaviour.

    STEAM is not the work of Satan, so please try it out eh?


    [insert random characters]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhazmuz View Post
    Software like STEAM is the future, better get on the digital wagon.
    Which is a scary thought, considering the lack of appropriate customer support and the ridiculous international pricing that they practice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by djvandyke View Post
    Fair enough, I should say a significant proportion of customers.
    Seems even right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by djvandyke View Post
    Fair enough, I should say a significant proportion of customers.
    But djvandyke, you use Xbox Live right? Well damn Microsoft! They forced you to sign up to a service to use their online products. Surely they should burn in the fiery hells of Satan like Steam should right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by djvandyke View Post
    Fair enough, I should say a significant proportion of customers.
    Based on what? Stop thinking that you are the majority of customers, the only people really against this are stuck in the past, this is the way gaming is going, get on board or dont play PC games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Brock View Post
    We obviously cannot release specific facts and figures but we wouldn't be making this decision blindly if Steam did absolutely nothing against piracy.
    Can we be a bit vague then? Is it based on the fact that a great deal of sales come from the first day of release, and that Steam often (not always, mind) delays the pirated versions availability for a day or two?

    I'm not exactly sure why you can't release facts and figures? Transparency is a good thing.

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    Gruching so sorry if its been mentioned already but If we have to register on Steam doesn't that mean the game cant be resold with out giving away the details of your Steam account?
    Or can I un-link it from my steam account?

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevie_G_32201 View Post
    What about the people who buy the game and don't have the internet? I used to always buy back before i had the internet full time and i would be very annoyed if i bought it and couldnt play it and then couldnt return it because i "opened it"
    If you can't access the internet at all then you can't play the game unfortunately. However, if you can go an internet cafe, or a friends house or find a temporary solution where you can access the internet for a short while to install Steam and active your game then you can play offline on your computer from then on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by djvandyke View Post
    Fair enough, I should say a significant proportion of customers.
    I think you're over-estimating with the use of 'significant', as it stands I will not be getting FM12 becasue of this issue & it looks like a few others are of the same mindset but I doubt we will form what could be called a significant group.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyzer Soze View Post
    Altough i can understand the decision from SI/SEGA, i dont see this as a contribute to reduce piracy. IMO wont have any effect on the 25% piracy ratio.

    For me, this is perhaps, the first step to end the disc version of FM, and perhaps FM2013 or FM2014 will be exclusive from steam!
    I really hope not

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Brock View Post
    But djvandyke, you use Xbox Live right? Well damn Microsoft! They forced you to sign up to a service to use their online products. Surely they should burn in the fiery hells of Satan like Steam should right?
    I didn't know Steam was SEGA's online product?

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    Quote Originally Posted by whilewolf View Post
    Gruching so sorry if its been mentioned already but If we have to register on Steam doesn't that mean the game cant be resold with out giving away the details of your Steam account?
    Or can I un-link it from my steam account?
    Good question, I'm not 100% sure but I am trying to find out. Thanks.

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    Whilst signing up to Steam is not an issue for me, it's hardly like you're being asked to pay for Steam first, it all seems really pointless to me, as I bet my last £ that it will be available on torrents as soon as it gets released anyway.

    Sadly, you'll never beat the pirates, and all you will achieve is annoying genuine customers, as this thread has more than proven.

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    Quote Originally Posted by whilewolf View Post
    Gruching so sorry if its been mentioned already but If we have to register on Steam doesn't that mean the game cant be resold with out giving away the details of your Steam account?
    Or can I un-link it from my steam account?
    You can't resell the game once it is registered on a Steam account. If you give away the details of your steam account, it will more then likely be banned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakers View Post
    Can we be a bit vague then? Is it based on the fact that a great deal of sales come from the first day of release, and that Steam often (not always, mind) delays the pirated versions availability for a day or two?

    I'm not exactly sure why you can't release facts and figures? Transparency is a good thing.
    I wasn't part of the decision making on this so don't know what was weighed up but it would be a pretty safe bet that the decision would not have been made if they didn't think it would have a positive impact on combating piracy and therefore increasing the numbers buying our game legally.

    There's a lot of people saying that Steam doesn't make any difference in combating piracy, have you got figures to prove that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by David - SEGA View Post
    If you can't access the internet at all then you can't play the game unfortunately. However, if you can go an internet cafe, or a friends house or find a temporary solution where you can access the internet for a short while to install Steam and active your game then you can play offline on your computer from then on.
    Thats the point im making, i used to be in this boat myself, never had the internet at all i would be very annoyed if i went to the local game shop, bought fm 2012 and couldnt play it because i never had the internet.Also even more annoyed when i tried to take it back and they wouldnt accept it as its been opened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakers View Post
    I would appreciate it if everyone stopped hiding behind the piracy excuse.

    I appreciate that Steam makes it incredibly easy to push out updates, and to keep graphics drivers up to date, but it does nothing against piracy - if anything it will drive a new section of potential or existing customers towards it. Steam has several advantages, but it also has a lot of disadvantages which are far too easily swept under the carpet.

    That and forcing someone who's purchased the game to install third party software is not a good way to treat customers. It should be an option, it should not be mandatory.

    Again, Steam does nothing against piracy, so I struggle to believe that is the actual reason for this decision.
    Wakers - apologies if you struggle to believe this, but we can 100% say that it is te actual reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Brock View Post
    We obviously cannot release specific facts and figures but we wouldn't be making this decision blindly if Steam did absolutely nothing against piracy.
    This is a key part of the problem for some people, if the decision has been made because Steam does prevent piracy then from a corporate point a view I would want to advertise these figures from the highest point as it would confirm one of the major USP's of this system, with neither party willing to publically state how their sales figures have increased then I'm afraid many people, myself included, are inclined to consider the claims as utter rubbish.
    Last edited by Barside; 16-09-2011 at 16:01.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Brock View Post
    Good question, I'm not 100% sure but I am trying to find out. Thanks.
    How can you not know?

    apart from the fact that the industry is doing it's best to stop the second hand market, of course. so tbh i dount it was even an afterthought when this cynical decision was made

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    As long as I'm not forced to play the game through Steam I can deal with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggins' Young Boys View Post
    How can you not know?
    He can not know because not everybody in the company is expert on every single aspect of everything we do. That's why he's off to ask the people who are

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjericho View Post
    As long as I'm not forced to play the game through Steam I can deal with that.
    Activating through steam will surely force you to play it through steam?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Brock View Post
    Good question, I'm not 100% sure but I am trying to find out. Thanks.
    No, you can't trade games in your steam account.

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    So the argument goes:

    Pirating is difficult via steam

    therefore

    pirates don't use steam

    therefore

    to play our game, they will not only have to buy steam, but they will also be buying our game.

    Seems illogical to me. Either steam is fine for pirates, or you're asking an awful lot of people who for whatever reason didn't pay for the game in the first place.

    And on the other end of the scale, you're ******* off your real customers. poor form.

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    I'm not really happy about using a 3rd party software but I'll try it out since I want to play the game. For those who are complaining about being "forced" to install a third party software, it's only an extension of having to download plug-ins to make sure a program runs smoothly and while it's not a great result, it is what it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertie BG View Post
    I wasn't part of the decision making on this so don't know what was weighed up but it would be a pretty safe bet that the decision would not have been made if they didn't think it would have a positive impact on combating piracy and therefore increasing the numbers buying our game legally.

    There's a lot of people saying that Steam doesn't make any difference in combating piracy, have you got figures to prove that?
    Figures? No. Why? Because each game is different. If we look at Deus Ex 3 for example, that game had a massive fanbase from the first 2 games. People would buy that because they'd been waiting years for it, regardless of how early it became available. I would guess (by the way, it's hard to get figures when everyone says "obviously we can't release figures") that yearly titles such as FM, Fifa etc etc suffer more from piracy than bigger releases.

    The thing that you should look at is how quickly games are available on torrent sites that have steam activation as the only way to activate the game.

    Steam is still DRM (speaking of DX3), and that is still something that a lot of people have a big problem with.

    Actually, you can now trade games within steam - however I think this applies to digital downloads only at the moment.

    The basic point is - pirates will get around Steam very quickly. I still get this sense that games companies are clinging to the old '1 pirated version is a 1 lost sale.'

    So if pirates get around steam, then what exactly is the point of it? All it does is annoy people who wouldn't consider pirating the game in the first place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by asdpoo View Post
    No, you can't trade games in your steam account.
    This is indeed the case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevie_G_32201 View Post
    Thats the point im making, i used to be in this boat myself, never had the internet at all i would be very annoyed if i went to the local game shop, bought fm 2012 and couldnt play it because i never had the internet.Also even more annoyed when i tried to take it back and they wouldnt accept it as its been opened.
    The box will clearly state you need the internet and steam to play, so really it would be the fault of the person buying the game if that happened.

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    you will never stop piracy,steam wont stop it,there will be a crack on the internet in the first week that the game is out.you wont need to activate it then.so why use steam its not going to stop the f k r s who do this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pauly1616 View Post


    Either steam is fine for pirates, or you're asking an awful lot of people who for whatever reason didn't pay for the game in the first place.

    And on the other end of the scale, you're ******* off your real customers. (n) poor form.
    The fact is, there's no such thing as real customers.

    if based on this decision the game sells 100,000 more copies, it doesn't matter to the people in charge if 200,000 customers who have been loyal to the game for 15 years stopped buying it

    this is hilariously bad stuff

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    The box will clearly state you need the internet and steam to play, so really it would be the fault of the person buying the game if that happened.
    The main point is being forced to not play the game over a lack of internet connection.

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    I am afraid sega you have just lost a customer. I don't want to be forced to install a program on my pc/mac that i do not want and on that basis this will be the first fm since its inception that i will not purchase.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggins' Young Boys View Post
    The fact is, there's no such thing as real customers.

    if based on this decision the game sells 100,000 more copies, it doesn't matter to the people in charge if 200,000 customers who have been loyal to the game for 15 years stopped buying it

    this is hilariously bad stuff
    Your missing the point.

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    Another one signed up to whinge!

    Not happy with this at all, admittedly I haven`t bought a new FM since 09, as I prefer to spend time on older versions than buy the latest one of the shelf.

    But this year I was planning to get FM12, I was ready to move up and embrace all the new features, however time consuming they may be, I was going to get stuck in regardless.

    But now I have to go through Steam to get it to work, I give up. I try to keep my PC away from the internet (where I can) to avoid any nasties, and I tend to download any files I need
    on my other PC and move them across to my gaming PC on a USB stick, which has worked well for me on all the older versions, and I was looking to continue doing things this way.

    I have no interest in trying to obtain a pirated copy of the game, it`s either a brand new, fresh out of the box and official game that I can install and play on the day or nothing for me.

    For all the older versions that I can play without my PC ever seeing an internet connection, I thank you immensely from the very depths of my heart. And it is those I shall go back
    and play and appreciate more than I have ever done, as I can just play without anything telling me I have to go here, there or anywhere before I can begin.

    Everything used to be so simple, now it`s just cluttered up because too many outside influences want to stick their fingers in the pie. Well I am no longer hungry if this is the new recipe.

    Cheers again :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevie_G_32201 View Post
    Your missing the point.
    no mate that's your point. i'm making a different one

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    You really are cutting off your nose to spite your face, you clearly enjoy FM, you wont win anything by taking your stance, the only person who will suffer is you, this is happening no matter what anyone on here says, either get with it or your going to miss out on a game many of you have enjoyed for the best part of 10 years. All because you dont really know much about a program you need to unlock the game. Your Xbox and PS3 will take more info from you than steam does, but no one cares that much, i have had steam for as long as its been around, never had my account hacked, never had any issues at all in anyway, i leave it signed in at all times and to unless you have the same password for your steam account and email account the chances of being hacked are slim to none. Its no more unsafe than any application anyone uses online.
    I think you are wrong. For every honest person who sadly won't be playing FM12, how many not so honest or miffed people do you think will seek out a cracked copy? This action is more likely to see an increase in pirated copy ownership in my opinion.

    Damn it all, I was about to bite the bullet on agents, and move up from FM10. :mad:

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    Really can not understand all the hate towards Steam.
    Maybe look at it like this:

    "What can I get you ?"
    "Ummm, I'll have some chips and,...err.. hamburger with the lot thanks, umm but no onions"
    "No worries," (writing and speaking aloud) "Chips, and haamm... burgg...gerr with the lot, "
    "Yep, great,.. but with no onions"
    "But a hamburger with the lot, comes with onions"
    "Yes, but I don't want any onions"
    "But it comes with onions"
    "Yep, got that bit mate, but I don't want any onions, actually, I don't like onions"
    "How about..... I just put the onions to the side, next to the chips"
    "No,... I don't want any onions"
    "But.. they.. could just.. sit next to the chips, and you... could... maybe... just ignore them"
    "NO... I DON'T want any onions,I DON'T like onions"
    "The onions are free you know,"
    "LOOK... NO F**KING ONIONS, YOU GOT IT.......friggin' peanut"

    Well thats the gist basically

  73. #173
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    How about this

    If you have never installed Steam and you don't want to install steam well meet half way

    How about you try it for a week and if you don't like it you can uninstall it? If you have any questions on how to use it, or to uninstall it just ask.


    But if you're just not installing it because of irrational fears that it's a memory hog, slows down your computer, it's spying on you or anything like that, I can confirm that none of that is true.

    Try it. You might actually like it. And if you don't uninstall it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tacticalmaster View Post
    you will never stop piracy,steam wont stop it,there will be a crack on the internet in the first week that the game is out.you wont need to activate it then.so why use steam its not going to stop the f k r s who do this.
    It may not stop them, but i'm sure it will make their job a little more difficult from last year FM2011. So if you look at thing from this point of view (like SI/SEGA are) this is a way to stop piracy! Its not perfect... but it's better then nothing!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggins' Young Boys View Post
    The fact is, there's no such thing as real customers.

    if based on this decision the game sells 100,000 more copies, it doesn't matter to the people in charge if 200,000 customers who have been loyal to the game for 15 years stopped buying it

    this is hilariously bad stuff
    The real rustomers he mentioned were the people who paid for the current game not the people who have played them all. So yes, you did miss the point.

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    Don't understand what problems people have with Steam. Though i suppose software can affect everyone differently. Don't agree with this change however but it wont stop me buying it since i use steam anyway. Really does make patching the game easier for one thing(and has also saved games that would've been corrupted-due to computer ****ing up, without steam).

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    Quote Originally Posted by pigfacemonkeyman View Post


    I think you are wrong. For every honest person who sadly won't be playing FM12, how many not so honest or miffed people do you think will seek out a cracked copy? This action is more likely to see an increase in pirated copy ownership in my opinion.

    Damn it all, I was about to bite the bullet on agents, and move up from FM10. :mad:
    They won't download Steam but they certainly will download µTorrent so they can torrent it... Torrenting requires third party software as well.

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    Do Not want it and i think %90 of the FM community are with me in saying that as this thread proves. i am NOT a fan of fifa manager but ea really are making a lot of effort to improve that game to overtake this and they already have the fifa match engine to use. i would be very careful with irritating and annoying your loyal fan base because they won't stay loyal for much longer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevie_G_32201 View Post
    The main point is being forced to not play the game over a lack of internet connection.
    you cant use an Ipod unless you have the internet and use Itunes, i dont see anyone kicking up a huge fuss over that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    you cant use an Ipod unless you have the internet and use Itunes, i dont see anyone kicking up a huge fuss over that.
    Im sorry, are we on an apple forum?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dune297 View Post
    They won't download Steam but they certainly will download µTorrent so they can torrent it... Torrenting requires third party software as well.
    That's missing the point. And it's technically not correct, it depends on what you want to use to download the torrent. Opera for instance does this without any other software needed.

    If someone wants to pirate a game, they won't mind installing something that helps them do it.

    If someone just wants to play a game that they've bought, they might mind having to sign up to an online service and all of the registration, potentially security issues and possible service disruptions that come with it.

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    I always install the game through steam anyway so it makes no difference to me.

    Steam uses next to no resources nowadays, can be set offline, is very minimalist so it doesnt get in the way, has fun achievements, allows you to chat with friends ingame using steam community (if online).

    I see no negatives to steam tbh unless i didnt have an internet connection at least once to activate the game.


    Anyone who hasnt used steam in the last year should just try it out now to see how unintrusive it is and how little resources it now uses compared to years ago.

  83. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakers View Post
    Figures? No. Why? Because each game is different. If we look at Deus Ex 3 for example, that game had a massive fanbase from the first 2 games. People would buy that because they'd been waiting years for it, regardless of how early it became available. I would guess (by the way, it's hard to get figures when everyone says "obviously we can't release figures") that yearly titles such as FM, Fifa etc etc suffer more from piracy than bigger releases.
    You're right, every game is different. Asking for figures either way is pointless because this is the first time that this would be being done on this particular game so we just won't know exact figures of if it's worked until it's released.

    The research done by the guys at SEGA think it will have a positive impact and so it's happening. It really is a war against piracy (and piracy, whatever some people will have you think, really is risking destroying creative industries, not just gaming) and this is FM's next move in attempting to combat it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    you cant use an Ipod unless you have the internet and use Itunes, i dont see anyone kicking up a huge fuss over that.
    That would be because people who don't want to use iTunes buy a different product.

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    Good point made further up that I haven't seen an answer for. What if you want to re-sell your game on Ebay or the like when FM13 comes out? I often sell my old games for a few quid, I take it as it will be already registered there will no longer be the option to do that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene Tyson View Post
    How about this

    If you have never installed Steam and you don't want to install steam well meet half way

    How about you try it for a week and if you don't like it you can uninstall it? If you have any questions on how to use it, or to uninstall it just ask.


    But if you're just not installing it because of irrational fears that it's a memory hog, slows down your computer, it's spying on you or anything like that, I can confirm that none of that is true.

    Try it. You might actually like it. And if you don't uninstall it.
    I've installed Steam, in the past, for FM09... (as I keep saying, only game and all that...) and it is because I've used it in the past that I won't use it again!

    If we could play FM12 without Steam I'd quite happily pay double what you monkeys that will buy it with Steam, it's not about piracy to me, it's about being forced to use something I don't like nor want to use despite me paying hard-earned cash for it! I should have the choice... the only choice I have is install steam and play the game or don't install steam and don't play the game... it will be the latter

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    Quote Originally Posted by Football Manager. View Post
    Do Not want it and i think %90 of the FM community are with me in saying that as this thread proves. i am NOT a fan of fifa manager but ea really are making a lot of effort to improve that game to overtake this and they already have the fifa match engine to use. i would be very careful with irritating and annoying your loyal fan base because they won't stay loyal for much longer.
    Because less than 40% is equal to 90%.

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    Quote Originally Posted by telV7 View Post
    Maybe look at it like this:

    "What can I get you ?"
    "Ummm, I'll have some chips and,...err.. hamburger with the lot thanks, umm but no onions"
    "No worries," (writing and speaking aloud) "Chips, and haamm... burgg...gerr with the lot, "
    "Yep, great,.. but with no onions"
    "But a hamburger with the lot, comes with onions"
    "Yes, but I don't want any onions"
    "But it comes with onions"
    "Yep, got that bit mate, but I don't want any onions, actually, I don't like onions"
    "How about..... I just put the onions to the side, next to the chips"
    "No,... I don't want any onions"
    "But.. they.. could just.. sit next to the chips, and you... could... maybe... just ignore them"
    "NO... I DON'T want any onions,I DON'T like onions"
    "The onions are free you know,"
    "LOOK... NO F**KING ONIONS, YOU GOT IT.......friggin' peanut"

    Well thats the gist basically
    Sounds more like buying a Windows PC and getting Windows Defender hard wired into the OS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertie BG View Post
    You're right, every game is different. Asking for figures either way is pointless because this is the first time that this would be being done on this particular game so we just won't know exact figures of if it's worked until it's released.

    The research done by the guys at SEGA think it will have a positive impact and so it's happening. It really is a war against piracy (and piracy, whatever some people will have you think, really is risking destroying creative industries, not just gaming) and this is FM's next move in attempting to combat it.
    But is it also a step towards moving the game to a solely digital release in the future?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pigfacemonkeyman View Post


    I think you are wrong. For every honest person who sadly won't be playing FM12, how many not so honest or miffed people do you think will seek out a cracked copy? This action is more likely to see an increase in pirated copy ownership in my opinion.

    Damn it all, I was about to bite the bullet on agents, and move up from FM10. :mad:
    Any more than usual? I dont think so. People who steal games will always try and carry on doing that, this will not force people into underground game dealing, or force more people towards torrent sites unless they are already inclined that way. I actually think they will sell more copies in the long run, steam and applications like it are the way forward for gaming, there is no going back on that, it will never be like it was 5/6 years ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyzer Soze View Post
    It may not stop them, but i'm sure it will make their job a little more difficult from last year FM2011. So if you look at thing from this point of view (like SI/SEGA are) this is a way to stop piracy! Its not perfect... but it's better then nothing!
    I'll bookmark this thread & post the first FM12 torrent link when it becomes available, £5 says I find one before the game can be activated on Steam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by telV7 View Post
    Maybe look at it like this:

    "What can I get you ?"
    "Ummm, I'll have some chips and,...err.. hamburger with the lot thanks, umm but no onions"
    "No worries," (writing and speaking aloud) "Chips, and haamm... burgg...gerr with the lot, "
    "Yep, great,.. but with no onions"
    "But a hamburger with the lot, comes with onions"
    "Yes, but I don't want any onions"
    "But it comes with onions"
    "Yep, got that bit mate, but I don't want any onions, actually, I don't like onions"
    "How about..... I just put the onions to the side, next to the chips"
    "No,... I don't want any onions"
    "But.. they.. could just.. sit next to the chips, and you... could... maybe... just ignore them"
    "NO... I DON'T want any onions,I DON'T like onions"
    "The onions are free you know,"
    "LOOK... NO F**KING ONIONS, YOU GOT IT.......friggin' peanut"

    Well thats the gist basically
    You use itunes at all? Or do you refuse to use that because you don't like onions?
    Steam is great, if you have a PC good enough to run FM then the small usage of Steam wont affect it. It's never been intrusive for me, what is everyone's problem?

  93. #193
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    I welcome steam with open arms.. Been using it for many many years and very rarely do I encounter any problems.

    Install the bloody program and thats it.. how is that annoying to anyone? - most of you happily install winamp, vlc, winzip etc in order to use some other programs/media or something like that.. why do you not require mp3, movies and such come with their own built-in player? - Why is it such a big problem to install steam when you probably have 20-30 others "not needed" programs on your pc?

    I really dont get how it is such a big problem.. Annoying? I guess.. if you're not used to use Steam, but so annoying that you will boycott FM? - insanity IMO

  94. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7Bestie7 View Post
    Sounds more like buying a Windows PC and getting Windows Defender hard wired into the OS.
    How, exactly? Windows Defender is not only part of the OS itself, but it is optional. Steam is not part of the FM application and it is not optional. So really, it's nothing like buying a PC.

  95. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakers View Post
    That would be because people who don't want to use iTunes buy a different product.
    Its the same thing tho, you want to buy a new SI product you have to use steam, you want to buy a new Ipod you have to use Itunes. There is always a choice in there.

  96. #196
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    I think that everyone needs to remember that if there was no piracy in the world then there'd be no need for the measures discussed. If you'd spent years working on something wouldn't you do all you could to protect it from someone trying to steal it? Steam is great IMO, and it doesn't require an internet connection past the first time you activate FM so I don't really see the problem.

    At the end of the day - like the lad from SEGA said - less piracy = more people having to buy the game = more money for development = better FM13/14/15, I, for one am more than happy to go through Steam if that's what it takes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dune297 View Post
    They won't download Steam but they certainly will download µTorrent so they can torrent it... Torrenting requires third party software as well.
    the point being you actually make the decision to use utorrent,vuze etc. You dont get a chance to choose whether to use steam for FM12.

  98. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herter View Post
    I welcome steam with open arms.. Been using it for many many years and very rarely do I encounter any problems.

    Install the bloody program and thats it.. how is that annoying to anyone? - most of you happily install winamp, vlc, winzip etc in order to use some other programs/media or something like that.. why do you not require mp3, movies and such come with their own built-in player? - Why is it such a big problem to install steam when you probably have 20-30 others "not needed" programs on your pc?

    I really dont get how it is such a big problem.. Annoying? I guess.. if you're not used to use Steam, but so annoying that you will boycott FM? - insanity IMO
    Yes, but people new to Steam need to be aware of a) there is the potential of having accounts hacked and being unrecoverable (the same as any other online service) and b) that steam does not have a customer support system that would be deemed appropriate in most EU countries.

  99. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herter View Post
    I welcome steam with open arms.. Been using it for many many years and very rarely do I encounter any problems.

    Install the bloody program and thats it.. how is that annoying to anyone? - most of you happily install winamp, vlc, winzip etc in order to use some other programs/media or something like that.. why do you not require mp3, movies and such come with their own built-in player? - Why is it such a big problem to install steam when you probably have 20-30 others "not needed" programs on your pc?

    I really dont get how it is such a big problem.. Annoying? I guess.. if you're not used to use Steam, but so annoying that you will boycott FM? - insanity IMO
    Ok, I'll install Steam the day they make it Open Source, deal?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barside View Post
    I'll bookmark this thread & post the first FM12 torrent link when it becomes available, £5 says I find one before the game can be activated on Steam.
    That would get you a ban from this forum. However, please do email it to piracy (at) sigames.com

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