A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation

**Loversleaper** · 21-09-2011 18:58

Originally Posted by Kriss

I was actually joking, If you think anything in this world could make me read this thread again you must be bonkers

Got ya...

**Kriss** · 21-09-2011 18:59

Originally Posted by milnerpoint

no saftey wink after that worries me

Winks are reserved for people who can type properly

**milnerpoint** · 21-09-2011 19:01

Originally Posted by Kriss

Winks are reserved for people who can type properly

i thought my problem was typing too much too loudly and especially too often.....??

**tom_numbers** · 21-09-2011 19:12

I'm concerned by the number of posts Kriss is apparently editing now

Having a conversation with yourself?

**milnerpoint** · 21-09-2011 19:15

point taken

**pigfacemonkeyman** · 21-09-2011 19:19

Originally Posted by afced7

Its up to GAME/HMV or any of the other websites to provide information on their own websites, SEGA isn't responsible for their content. Complain to the other websites.

Check what Miles and Bertie said then check the four "Buy Now" sites, and the SEGA "Pre-Order" page. (7:08pm)
And how long has the game been available to buy?!

**Loversleaper** · 21-09-2011 19:28

Originally Posted by Kriss

Even so it would be good form for Miles and Sega to shout loudly at them as any repercussions will surely fall on them.

There's a notion...

Don't tell me that you just supported the dark-side (even though it was very small one of it's kind)...

Sometimes you just lose faith in a good old fashioned "it's us against them" if these things start going on in a regular fashion...

Now, don't let this happen again...

**pigfacemonkeyman** · 21-09-2011 19:31

Originally Posted by milnerpoint

i thought my problem was typing too much too loudly and especially too often.....??

It is, but you obviously haven't learnt.

**Kriss** · 21-09-2011 19:36

Originally Posted by tom_numbers

I'm concerned by the number of posts Kriss is apparently editing now

Having a conversation with yourself?

In the absence of anybody else worth conversing with................

**Bohsjohn** · 21-09-2011 19:37

i brought my laptop to my local library and mcdonalds i got this message Steam.exe (main exception):
To run steam, you must first
connect to the internet.i looked around the net and can't find a fix.

**Kriss** · 21-09-2011 19:44

Originally Posted by Loversleaper

There's a notion...

Don't tell me that you just supported the dark-side (even though it was very small one of it's kind)...

Sometimes you just lose faith in a good old fashioned "it's us against them" if these things start going on in a regular fashion...

Now, don't let this happen again...

I'm actually only on the side of those who want to play FM, I'm really sorry for those who can't but I'm not all that sympathetic for those who can but won't, they have a choice so if they're really "loyal"

they'll bite the bullet.

I also like telling Miles what to do

**tigerhgrrrrrr** · 21-09-2011 19:46

Originally Posted by tom_numbers

Kind of, though as plenty of people have pointed out, Steam does have a tendency to try to force itself back online. In the most obscure of explanations, if you run Steam, FM has to ask Steam for permission to open before it actually will - if you're online, it checks you're legit. If you're not, it assumes you are since you were last time you were online (from the login details provided).

Thanks for the info. But for the third time I ask why must Steam always be active? You cant play the game unless activated so why must it be there after activation?. I can see why Steam want that access but why do SI think that that is a necessary thing?

**Loversleaper** · 21-09-2011 19:50

Originally Posted by Kriss

I'm actually only on the side of those who want to play FM, I'm really sorry for those who can't but I'm not all that sympathetic for those who can but won't, they have a choice so if they're really "loyal"

they'll bite the bullet.

Rea-he-he-lly?

Then you better send Bohsjohn your condolences or we don't believe you...

But on a serious note:

Bohsjohn, if we were to understand correctly then public wi-fi's won't let you connect to Steam?

**Bohsjohn** · 21-09-2011 19:55

It would not work for me no.I can't aford internet sending this from my phone.

**themadsheep2001** · 21-09-2011 19:59

Originally Posted by Loversleaper

Rea-he-he-lly?

Then you better send Bohsjohn your condolences or we don't believe you...

But on a serious note:

Bohsjohn, if we were to understand correctly then public wi-fi's won't let you connect to Steam?

Public Wifi will let you connect to Steam, at least the cafes I have been to have allowed me,

**afced7** · 21-09-2011 20:03

Originally Posted by Loversleaper

There's a notion...

Miles and SEGA may have already done so, unfortunately distributors of the game aren't at the beck and call of SEGA and SI.

**afced7** · 21-09-2011 20:05

Originally Posted by pigfacemonkeyman

Check what Miles and Bertie said then check the four "Buy Now" sites, and the SEGA "Pre-Order" page. (7:08pm)
And how long has the game been available to buy?!

Like I said SEGA and Miles aren't responsible for the content displayed on external websites. The information should be on the SEGA pre-order page, but SEGA have made the information about requiring internet access clear already on their website on a different page.

**Loversleaper** · 21-09-2011 20:05

Originally Posted by Bohsjohn

It would not work for me no.I can't aford internet sending this from my phone.

I haven't tried it but it might be that public wi-fi's won't allow certain sites due to the availability of downloadable material, so it blocks them out. I know it is not what you want to hear, but I am pretty sure this is the case.

Whilst Kriss feels sorry/sympathetic for people like Bohsjohn, I on the otherhand have tried to highlight that people are going to end up in situations such as this. Of course, we can say to him he has to look for other options - but what if he doesn't really have one? Most people here won't see your problem, Bohsjohn, because they don't have the same problem. For your sake and others in your situation, I truely hope that SI/SEGA re-think the position that they have taken on this matter...

**pigfacemonkeyman** · 21-09-2011 20:14

Originally Posted by Bohsjohn

It would not work for me no.I can't aford internet sending this from my phone.

I'm sorry to hear that. Here are a few others who share your pain.

Originally Posted by Shake Appeal

Anyone who has the ability to play FM12 has the

ability to play the game with Steam, unless they don't have an Internet connection and

can't find their way to somewhere or someone who does for a once-off activation

process that takes less than thirty seconds.

If these people exist, I could probably count

them on both my hands.

Originally Posted by metisse

Saying you don't have internet connection on your pc is like

saying you don't have a cell phone. Yeah, not everybody has it, but at this point of the

history it's just because you either don't want it, or you just can't afford it.

Originally Posted by CaptainPlanet

So the only people this actually affects, are those

that don't have the internet at all and can't get access to the internet for 60 seconds.

And those who have a computer old enough (and probably below the recommended

specs) that running a single extra application whilst the game is running affects

performance of the game.

Why is there 20 pages of rage on this?

Originally Posted by CaptainPlanet

I think it's acceptable that having a home internet

connection is a minimum requirement.

Originally Posted by CaptainPlanet

A modern PC gamer without the internet is

comparable to someone with a record player hating itunes.

QUOTE=Keyzer Soze;7095080]Completely agree with this!

Apart from a small (very

small) amount of users that may have problems because the lack of an internet

connection. And even this, it's only apply with people with desktops, because if they

install the game in an laptop this issue can be solve very easely.

The other issue, could

be in terms of patching the game exclusively by steam. This could raise a couple of

questions.

All the other issues, and particularly the "3rd party program"... well... i think

that its important that a person had a "personnal quest" in their life! A goal... a reason to

fight for! But common... Steam!?!?! Why dont you spend all this energy in defending

human rights or something like that?[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by afced7

They only need it for about 30 seconds, I'm sure if people

put their mind to it there would be SOME solution to their dilemma.

Originally Posted by afced7

Ignoring the fact that people already have internet access if

they are viewing any of those websites of course.

Originally Posted by afced7

I wonder how many people have an up to date phone like an

Android but no internet connection or any access at all to the internet on a computer.

Originally Posted by afced7

Look I've already explained about other countries, I have no

idea about the whole situation anywhere else, I live in the UK and don't have the need to

connect to Estonian broadband or whatever. I highly doubt I will go blind no matter what

the situation is anywhere else.

Originally Posted by afced7

Actually I'm trying to come up with solutions for people who

have access to things I'm relatively familiar with, i.e. internet cafe's, BT Openzone. I

don't see you doing much except crying about people's lives being over because they

can't play a computer game. The long and short of it is that this is happening, get used

to it. Also I'd like to point out I'm not a whole argument.

Originally Posted by afced7

Why is there one anyway? People will need to use steam

and have internet access to play the game. What more is there to this thread?

Hope you find a solution.

**afced7** · 21-09-2011 20:16

Having googled 'steam public wifi' I may have found a solution, as somebody also had problems in a McDonalds, apparently downloading a program called 'hot spot shield' may allow you to access/download steam. (N.B I haven't used it myself, don't quote me on this being the answer to your prayers)

**themadsheep2001** · 21-09-2011 20:19

Public wifi's do allow you to connect to steam, though this may vary on the settings of that network

**afced7** · 21-09-2011 20:20

Originally Posted by pigfacemonkeyman

Hope you find a solution.

How about actively looking for one instead of 'hoping' and spending your life trawling through a long thread looking for people to quote?

**pigfacemonkeyman** · 21-09-2011 20:22

Originally Posted by afced7

Like I said SEGA and Miles aren't responsible for the content displayed on external websites. The information should be on the SEGA pre-order page, but SEGA have made the information about requiring internet access clear already on their website on a different page.

This is as clear as I can make it for you;

1)Read what Miles said he had insisted on.
2)Using that information look again.

**afced7** · 21-09-2011 20:32

He promised there would be a warning on the box. There is no warning on the box as yet. This does not mean that Miles has not told the relevant people to get on it (although I'm also not suggesting he definitely has). Or are you privy to the inner workings of SI towers and know something the rest of us don't? If so do tell...

**Loversleaper** · 21-09-2011 20:35

Hotspot Shield won't work, I think there are a couple of reasons that Steam won't allow their site to be accessed by public wi-fi systems...

**themadsheep2001** · 21-09-2011 20:39

Originally Posted by Loversleaper

Hotspot Shield won't work, I think there are a couple of reasons that Steam won't allow their site to be accessed by public wi-fi systems...

Steam can use public wifi, and the problem isnt with steam, but with the settings of that particular network, some are set to restrict programs like Steam, usually on University Campuses, though some allow steam through

**afced7** · 21-09-2011 20:39

Would it be possible to try a Starbucks? There's a thread I found when I googled the same thing again which suggests that it is possible to access steam from there.

Again no idea if going to Starbucks is an option for you, or if it will solve the problem you have.

**mattleydon** · 21-09-2011 20:39

Originally Posted by pigfacemonkeyman

This is as clear as I can make it for you;

1)Read what Miles said he had insisted on.
2)Using that information look again.

I might be missing something (and it might have been mentioned before) but the Sega Pre Order page is a digital download so although it doesn't mention Steam I assume people will know that they need the internet to use it the first time
http://uk.download-store.sega.com/sh...l-manager-2012

**Kriss** · 21-09-2011 20:41

Originally Posted by afced7

He promised there would be a warning on the box. There is no warning on the box as yet. This does not mean that Miles has not told the relevant people to get on it. Or are you privy to the inner workings of SI towers and know something the rest of us don't? If so do tell...

There is a warning on the box, you can see it on the Game picture, in white at the bottom, reasonably prominent, though personally I'd have it about three inches high

**Loversleaper** · 21-09-2011 20:43

Originally Posted by themadsheep2001

Steam can use public wifi, and the problem isnt with steam, but with the settings of that particular network, some are set to restrict programs like Steam, usually on University Campuses, though some allow steam through

Your speaking purely on a hunch it seems. If this is the case then please come with a solid example, or anyone else for that matter. If we do establish a spot where these people can go it would be a great help

...

**afced7** · 21-09-2011 20:45

Originally Posted by Kriss

There is a warning on the box, you can see it on the Game picture, in white at the bottom, reasonably prominent, though personally I'd have it about three inches high

Then I have no idea what the complaint is.

**themadsheep2001** · 21-09-2011 20:45

Originally Posted by Loversleaper

Your speaking purely on a hunch it seems. If this is the case then please come with a solid example, or anyone else for that matter. If we do establish a spot where these people can go it would be a great help

...

im speaking on the fact that i have used Steam on a public wifi in various places. Since i dont know where these people live, hard to be any more specfic

...

**Kriss** · 21-09-2011 20:46

Originally Posted by Loversleaper

Your speaking purely on a hunch it seems. If this is the case then please come with a solid example, or anyone else for that matter. If we do establish a spot where these people can go it would be a great help

...

There are Uni lists on the Steam site, might be other hot spot info too, I respectfully suggest that's the place to look if you have issues, we're all Steam amateurs here lol.

**Loversleaper** · 21-09-2011 20:47

Originally Posted by themadsheep2001

im speaking on the fact that i have used Steam on a public wifi in various places. Since i dont know where these people live, hard to be any more specfic

...

For example? Come on, it would be a great help if they had a few options at least. Like Starbucks maybe?...

**Kriss** · 21-09-2011 20:47

Originally Posted by afced7

Then I have no idea what the complaint is.

That Sega ad is actually crap, it says it's not multi player, somebody needs their butt kicked.

**Loversleaper** · 21-09-2011 20:49

Originally Posted by Kriss

There are Uni lists on the Steam site, might be other hot spot info too, I respectfully suggest that's the place to look if you have issues, we're all Steam amateurs here lol.

Again, another hunch. Let's get something solid, folks...

**The Welsh Lad** · 21-09-2011 20:49

Originally Posted by Kriss

There is a warning on the box, you can see it on the Game picture, in white at the bottom, reasonably prominent, though personally I'd have it about three inches high

Was just going to say that

**themadsheep2001** · 21-09-2011 20:49

Originally Posted by Loversleaper

For example? Come on, it would be a great help if they had a few options at least. Like Starbucks maybe?...

Varsity, Cafe Nero, various libraries, virgin trains wireless, bentall shopping centre, (cant say starbucks as ive never used it there)

**Loversleaper** · 21-09-2011 20:52

Originally Posted by themadsheep2001

Varsity, Cafe Nero, various libraries, virgin trains wireless, bentall shopping centre, (cant say starbucks as ive never used it there)

Perfect! Bohsjohn is still online, he might have to try a better library, though, maybe give him the address to the one you used?...

**The Welsh Lad** · 21-09-2011 20:53

Originally Posted by Loversleaper

Again, another hunch. Let's get something solid, folks...

Are you just in the mood to disagree and make a statment at evey point where someone is trying to help someone. Instead of critising why don't you try help and look for said 'solid' evidence.

**themadsheep2001** · 21-09-2011 20:53

Originally Posted by Loversleaper

Perfect! Bohsjohn is still online, he might have to try a better library, though, maybe give him the address to the one you used?...

unless Bohsjohn lives in manchester its pretty useless to him

**Loversleaper** · 21-09-2011 20:56

Originally Posted by themadsheep2001

unless Bohsjohn lives in manchester its pretty useless to him

He could take the virgin train there!...

**Kriss** · 21-09-2011 20:58

Let's get back to something like constructive please.

**The Welsh Lad** · 21-09-2011 21:02

Well I uninstalled FM11 earlier and re-installed it through Steam, was very straight forward and didn't take long. Never thought about the achievements but once I looked at them I thought it has an added challenge specially the ones where you have to take a lower league team to the top division.

**Loversleaper** · 21-09-2011 21:12

Look, we were having a little fun. I would like to at least have a chance to offer some form of apology, I didn't realise that I would step so hard on the community. Therefore at least give me the chance to go out graciously...

**Kriss** · 21-09-2011 21:15

Originally Posted by Loversleaper

Look, we were having a little fun. I would like to at least have a chance to offer some form of apology, I didn't realise that I would step so hard on the community. Therefore at least give me the chance to go out graciously...

You're not going anywhere

a 10 point infraction is just a black(errr red?) mark lol

**tigerhgrrrrrr** · 21-09-2011 21:19

Originally Posted by Kriss

This is what could happen;

Kriss could get bored with people making wild guesses and creating make believe "what if" scenarios.

Kriss could then close this thread.

The Mods could then go back through this thread banning all those users they find irritating (believe me some are more easily irritated than me)

Kriss could then have a monopoly on making things up.

Well I hope the activation thing goes smoothly, I really do. Iam not happy with Steam being forced upon me for playing FM12however if it all goes as badly or even worse (God forbid)than in 2008 then SI/Sega wont have to worry about next years DRM because the amount of Customers that will be left will be so small that on release day Miles will be able to pop round their houses on release day 2012 and install the game for them!

**Bohsjohn** · 21-09-2011 21:19

i live in dublin not alot of hotspot places.

**Loversleaper** · 21-09-2011 21:20

Originally Posted by Kriss

You're not going anywhere

a 10 point infraction is just a black(errr red?) mark lol

You just moved to an infraction without at least giving me a warning, I would have backed off because in my mind it was just a little harmless fun. Giving me at least a chance before giving me an infaction would have done more impact then me now feeling that I am a scapegoat for some of the things that have been throw around recently. Unjustification will never do anyone any favors...

**Bohsjohn** · 21-09-2011 21:22

i live in dublin

**Loversleaper** · 21-09-2011 21:34

Reading back, we are talking about how to help a gamer like Bohsjohn. I thought that the help was incredibly vague, thesheep gave me a thumbs up and I gave him one back - what's the problem? If the general feeling is that we do help someone like Bohsjohn, then why does it have to be dragged out? I attempted to do this in my strange Danish way (we are not entirely normal people you know), but what happened to no harm no foul ideology?

For what it's worth: I do sincerely apologise to thesheep and everyone else that felt harmed by my reckless attitude. We were all having a little banter or so I thought. We still haven't helped Bohsjohn or people in his situation which is the main reason behind the current discussion at hand...

**eddymunster** · 21-09-2011 21:36

Originally Posted by SuperStoffer

Didn't they sell 500.000 copies of the game last year?

30£ each.... Hmmm... 15 millions £ ... Can't make a FM2013.... Hmmm. Don't think piracy is the problem then.

- High wages? ------ Don't think so.
- Too much staff -------- Don't think so.
- Bad deal with SEGA --------- If so, get out of it.. So no.
- Development cost too high --------- Well, what cost. Wages = yes. Computers = Yes. Rent = Yes. Energi = Yes. SEGA deal = Yes. ----------------- Does this bring the total up to 15 millions?

If so, I would call it VERY bad management.

Of cause the owner will get some money out of it too.... But come on.

Making Football Manager games at SiGames is NOT a bad thing. It DOES make a profit.
But again, more sale, more profit.
But don't tell us, that there will be no FM2013 with 500.000 sold copies. Plz.. Thx.

Have SI offered you there financial managers position yet? They definitely should. No brainer.

**afced7** · 21-09-2011 21:51

I can't post any links (I don't think) so I'll just copy what I found, its not an official list and very old but short of going to Dublin myself and trying them out I can't verify them myself.

Brown's Bar, Citywest, D24

Cafe Ciao, Bagget Street Bridge, D2

Chester Beatty Library, D2

Dublin Airport, End of Terminal A

Front Lounge, Parliament St, D2

Kylemore Cafe, St Stephens Green, D2

McDonald's, Kylemore Road, D24

Renard's Bar, South Frederick St, D2

Solas Bar, Camden St, D2

The Globe, Great Georges St, D2

The Market Bar, Georges St Arcade, D2

All these places are apparently free as well, again I can't vouch for that.

**Kriss** · 21-09-2011 22:09

Originally Posted by tigerhgrrrrrr

Well I hope the activation thing goes smoothly, I really do. Iam not happy with Steam being forced upon me for playing FM12however if it all goes as badly or even worse (God forbid)than in 2008 then SI/Sega wont have to worry about next years DRM because the amount of Customers that will be left will be so small that on release day Miles will be able to pop round their houses on release day 2012 and install the game for them!

You've just invented the first properly effective anti piracy measure

probably not cost effective though lol.

You're right in one thing, it's now actually dependant on Steam, they have done it before so we have to believe they can do it for FM, it will be a cross your fingers day though for sure.

**Kriss** · 21-09-2011 22:12

Originally Posted by Loversleaper

Reading back, we are talking about how to help a gamer like Bohsjohn. I thought that the help was incredibly vague, thesheep gave me a thumbs up and I gave him one back - what's the problem? If the general feeling is that we do help someone like Bohsjohn, then why does it have to be dragged out? I attempted to do this in my strange Danish way (we are not entirely normal people you know), but what happened to no harm no foul ideology?

For what it's worth: I do sincerely apologise to thesheep and everyone else that felt harmed by my reckless attitude. We were all having a little banter or so I thought. We still haven't helped Bohsjohn or people in his situation which is the main reason behind the current discussion at hand...

Your sins are forgiven, infraction reversed, could probably have dished out a shed load tbh but it's an emotive thread so we try to apply a light hand.

**pigfacemonkeyman** · 21-09-2011 22:36

Originally Posted by Kriss

There is a warning on the box, you can see it on the Game picture, in white at the bottom, reasonably prominent, though personally I'd have it about three inches high

I don't see it?

**afced7** · 21-09-2011 22:37

Yeah that's what I though too, just assumed I was being dim, the only thing it says at the bottom is 'provisional'

**tom_numbers** · 21-09-2011 22:40

**jpwild** · 21-09-2011 22:44

Originally Posted by tom_numbers

Why no mention of 'steam' as well I wonder. Why not use the word 'steam'?

**afced7** · 21-09-2011 22:47

Probably going to say that on the back along with Direct X and the other requirements.

**tom_numbers** · 21-09-2011 22:48

Originally Posted by jpwild

Why no mention of 'steam' as well I wonder. Why not use the word 'steam'?

People might not have heard of Steam. They might not know what it is, how it works, whether it's free, or anything. They might not buy the game on the basis that it says it needs something that they have never heard of. If you can get internet, you can get Steam.

I would imagine.

**jpwild** · 21-09-2011 22:53

Originally Posted by tom_numbers

People might not have heard of Steam. They might not know what it is, how it works, whether it's free, or anything. They might not buy the game on the basis that it says it needs something that they have never heard of. If you can get internet, you can get Steam.

I would imagine.

All the more reason to put out the word 'steam' on the front cover of the boxed product.To be honest with the customers, and to let them know what you are buying into.

I think the wording is very sly as requiring an internet connection to install the game could mean various things and scenarios.

**Kriss** · 21-09-2011 22:55

Originally Posted by afced7

Probably going to say that on the back along with Direct X and the other requirements.

Where does it normally go? I don't have any boxes atall to check but I had a feeling Civ V had it on the front.

**tom_numbers** · 21-09-2011 22:57

Originally Posted by jpwild

All the more reason to put out the word 'steam' on the front cover of the boxed product.To be honest with the customers, and to let them know what you are buying into.

I think the wording is very sly as requiring an internet connection to install the game could mean various things and scenarios.

Eh? "Customers might not know what Steam is. Let's say the game needs Steam."

**pigfacemonkeyman** · 21-09-2011 23:00

Originally Posted by Kriss

Where does it normally go? I don't have any boxes atall to check but I had a feeling Civ V had it on the front.

I don't know where it normally goes, but this was the plan!

Originally Posted by Miles Jacobson

You've asked how we're letting people know about this. Well, apart from the forum thread, there was a mailshot on Friday to hundreds of thousands of our registered customers to let them know about it, as well as telling them about the blogs and the release date. Since then, pre-orders have gone up massively with our pre-order position at Amazon in the UK (for example) going up from the mid 20's into the top 10, peaking at 5 and currently at 7, which is way higher than we normally are at this time of year. There will also be, front of pack in between the SI logo and the age rating, in big letters, the words "requires internet connection to activate", which was insisted upon by me for us to be able to go ahead with this. I will be chasing SEGA first thing on Monday to ensure that all retailers who have packshots online switch to the final packshot, rather than the one they are currently using.

**afced7** · 21-09-2011 23:00

Originally Posted by Kriss

Where does it normally go? I don't have any boxes atall to check but I had a feeling Civ V had it on the front.

I don't have the box either but according to Google images, nothing on the front

**afced7** · 21-09-2011 23:00

Originally Posted by pigfacemonkeyman

I don't know where it normally goes, but this was the plan!

Which they have now impemented

**Keyzer Soze** · 21-09-2011 23:03

It dont make any sence to put "steam" in the front cover!
It's a requirement to install/play the game, so it should be in the same place as the others requirements (ram, processor, OS, directx, etc), in the back cover!

**Kriss** · 21-09-2011 23:06

Originally Posted by afced7

I don't have the box either but according to Google images, nothing on the front

They put the box art out early to reviewers etc so we can't be sure what is the finished article, I seem to remember Civ V having quite a big steam logo on the front.

**pigfacemonkeyman** · 21-09-2011 23:22

Originally Posted by Kriss

They put the box art out early to reviewers etc so we can't be sure what is the finished article, I seem to remember Civ V having quite a big steam logo on the front.

Was it the "SteamPlay" logo? The box artwork on the SEGA pre-order page is different from those on the other sites.

Originally Posted by Keyzer Soze

It dont make any sence to put "steam" in the front cover!
It's a requirement to install/play the game, so it should be in the same place as the others requirements (ram, processor, OS, directx, etc), in the back cover!

I think it should be on the front of the box. People should be made aware of it's importance.

**themadsheep2001** · 21-09-2011 23:24

Originally Posted by pigfacemonkeyman

Was it the "SteamPlay" logo? The box artwork on the SEGA pre-order page is different from those on the other sites.

I think it should be on the front of the box. People should be made aware of it's importance.

It doesnt matter where, as long as its on the box and made as clear as any other minimum requirements

**Mr.Bojangles** · 21-09-2011 23:57

I've got my Civ 5 box in front of me. Nothing on the front at all about Steam or Internet connection. I can't see a Steam logo on the back, and in very small writing it mentions needing a one time activation with Steam in "Other Requirements" Not even in the minimum requirements bit (which it is)

Pretty shoddy by them actually. It doesn't bother me either way, but you'd be pretty peeved if you didn't have an internet connection, or you were one of the anti-Steam crusaders.

**themadsheep2001** · 22-09-2011 00:07

Originally Posted by Mr.Bojangles

I've got my Civ 5 box in front of me. Nothing on the front at all about Steam or Internet connection. I can't see a Steam logo on the back, and in very small writing it mentions needing a one time activation with Steam in "Other Requirements" Not even in the minimum requirements bit (which it is)

Pretty shoddy by them actually. It doesn't bother me either way, but you'd be pretty peeved if you didn't have an internet connection, or you were one of the anti-Steam crusaders.

That is really shoddy, SI and SEGA should make sure its not the same for FM12

aaron70 · 22-09-2011 03:13

Originally Posted by Eugene Tyson

I don't think you see the bigger picture either.

If 1/4 of the people that pirate the game - if they buy it that's double the sales for SI.

That still leaves 3/4 of that category still pirating the game.

There's people who pre-ordered it in the past, that cancelled their pre-order when the pirated versions became available.

Given the sharp rise in pre-order sales (according to SI and Amazon et al online stores (Steam included)) since it was announced that FM would be available through Steam - it's pretty clear that it's working.

You can choose not to believe what SI let you know. Which they are under no obligation to do or let you know anything. They do so to keep you informed. They have no reason to lie to you. As if it came out they were lying they would very quickly lose a lot of customers.

Like it or not - it's working. Regardless whether you choose to believe that or not.

Do you believe everything you get told by a company trying to justify a decision that they have made that they know may be controversial? You really believe this pirating figures quoted, you know the actual pre-order figures, you know that the game will not be pirated before release or at least the next day....man, I wish you would do something but say "Sega say....." It really does not validate your argument.

**themadsheep2001** · 22-09-2011 03:24

Originally Posted by aaron70

Do you believe everything you get told by a company trying to justify a decision that they have made that they know may be controversial? You really believe this pirating figures quoted, you know the actual pre-order figures, you know that the game will not be pirated before release or at least the next day....man, I wish you would do something but say "Sega say....." It really does not validate your argument.

And yet you offer nothing with that post either, except to start another round of pointless back and forth that has been running for 30+ pages. I know its a terse reply, but the same ground keeps getting covered all the time. What's done is done, for better or for worse, unless there is a stunning and pretty unlikely turnaround

@Bohsjohn, did you manage to find a decent internet place?

aaron70 · 22-09-2011 03:38

Originally Posted by themadsheep2001

And yet you offer nothing with that post either, except to start another round of pointless back and forth that has been running for 30+ pages

@Bohsjohn, did you manage to find a decnt internet place?

Not really. The main part of what I have been saying is that I have been amazed at the lack of respect given to other gamers and people just following a company line. I have found it incredible the fact that people are willing to support a multi-national company and not fellow games even though the decision to support other gamers WILL NOT affect them. The post i quoted shows once again this strange desire to defend a company who is stopping some unfortunate people from playing a game. FM exists today because of the massive community support it got in it's fledgling years. So don't compare it to other games. CM grew up because of consumers. Now it is just another game owned by a company who only makes a basic attempt at "caring for its consumers" to ensure enough sheep will buy the game.

Basically I am done with this 100% now. I will remove myself from these forums.

**jujigatame** · 22-09-2011 04:03

My biggest problem with Steam is that it has changed the definition of fair use for PC games. It used to be that I could play a game for a while, get tired of it, and give it to a friend or resell it. I would not retain a copy so this was a perfectly legal transaction. Nowadays with Steam, the game is permanently locked to my Steam account upon activation.

It's a bummer to hear that FM12 will follow this trend, but honestly it probably won't influence my purchasing decision very much. If the game is good, I will buy it.

**kambing conge** · 22-09-2011 06:15

this move is useless, ppl will still be able to play 2012 for free and those who purchase it will have more problems to face, we are already frustrated by the bugs for god sake and now you wish to give us more headache

**tigerhgrrrrrr** · 22-09-2011 07:47

Originally Posted by jpwild

All the more reason to put out the word 'steam' on the front cover of the boxed product.To be honest with the customers, and to let them know what you are buying into.

I think the wording is very sly as requiring an internet connection to install the game could mean various things and scenarios.

I think this is deliberate, trying to avoid hundreds of thousands of people who are about to purchase the game saying to the Retailer, "What, you mean I have to have an internet connection, I have to download this Steam thing and I always have to have it and my rights to play the game are controlled by this Steam thing ?". Thats probably the reason for the subtle subtefuge.

Out of interest are there any figures for unhappy customers returning to the retailer in 2008 claiming the FM09 product "just didnt work" or was "unfit for puropose"...or that the manual had a "printing definition issue making the game practically unplayable?"

**RowRow78** · 22-09-2011 07:55

Just out of interest...anyone know why Steam are listing the game for £29.99, when most online actual retailers are under-cutting them? I'm an Amazon Prime customer, so will get the physical boxed game on day of release via a courier all for £24.99, where as if I ordered through Steam I'd have to pound my broadband allowance and pay more, even though (discounting their server costs) they don't have nearly the same distribution costs...?

Surely if they want to convert the doubters to Steam they need to at the very least match their competitors.....?

Sorry, not really an activation issue, just related to a lot of discussion already on here, apologies if the question has already been asked, it's difficult to keep up with all the posts on this thread

**AndyPass** · 22-09-2011 08:14

Originally Posted by RowRow78

Just out of interest...anyone know why Steam are listing the game for £29.99, when most online actual retailers are under-cutting them? I'm an Amazon Prime customer, so will get the physical boxed game on day of release via a courier all for £24.99, where as if I ordered through Steam I'd have to pound my broadband allowance and pay more, even though (discounting their server costs) they don't have nearly the same distribution costs...?

Surely if they want to convert the doubters to Steam they need to at the very least match their competitors.....?

Sorry, not really an activation issue, just related to a lot of discussion already on here, apologies if the question has already been asked, it's difficult to keep up with all the posts on this thread

You might find that your internet provider in the UK does not count downloads from Steam.

Here in Oz I use an internet provider called Internode. I downloaded a program (I think it's called Steamwatch) that forces steam to use a local server to download games. Using a local internode server does not eat into my internet allowance.

Not sure who your provider is but you might want to check online in case you ever do use Steam to download a game and you're concerned that it might exceed your download limit.

**RowRow78** · 22-09-2011 08:18

Interesting, had no idea about that. Doesn't really effect my choice though as I only have 700kbs speed, so it would still be a pain in the butt to download. I'm more interested in why Steam are charging more than other retailers when they don't have the same distribution costs tbh...

**AndyPass** · 22-09-2011 08:21

No probs. You may want to consider it for patches though.

Not sure why Steam are charging more though. Can't help with that I'm afraid.

**RowRow78** · 22-09-2011 08:42

Hrm...Looked into it and there is no software like that for Mac and my ISP (BT) are apparently notorious for penalising heavy Steam users...oh well.

But thanks for opening my eyes to the possibility Andy.

PS. I realise it may be naive asking here why Steam are charging more and I should really be discussing it with them, but the point remains that SI clearly want their users to move over, but there needs to be a real incentive to do so, and surely price is one of the biggest...

**eddymunster** · 22-09-2011 08:44

Originally Posted by AndyPass

No probs. You may want to consider it for patches though.

Not sure why Steam are charging more though. Can't help with that I'm afraid.

Because they know people will pay it for convenience. People like me. By the time I've driven to the shop it's no more expensive anyway. And I'm never in to take deliveries so if I order off Amazon or wherever and it needs signing for I'll have to go collect it anyway. If it doesn't need signing for that's worse.

**spankie** · 22-09-2011 09:00

Originally Posted by jujigatame

My biggest problem with Steam is that it has changed the definition of fair use for PC games. It used to be that I could play a game for a while, get tired of it, and give it to a friend or resell it. I would not retain a copy so this was a perfectly legal transaction. Nowadays with Steam, the game is permanently locked to my Steam account upon activation.

It's a bummer to hear that FM12 will follow this trend, but honestly it probably won't influence my purchasing decision very much. If the game is good, I will buy it.

Actually it wasn't a perfectly legal transaction. When you brought the game you paid for the license for you and you alone to play it. When you gave it to a friend or resold it that broke the EULA agreement even if you uninstalled it and never played it again.

The market for pre-owned games is actually a grey area legally and I wouldn't be surprised if at some point regulation comes that that restricts it is some way. Possibly where the owner of the IP of the game (in this case SI/Sega) gets paid a small percentage of any resold game by those companies like Game or HMV who do pre-owned games.

The other possibility is that games companies sell licenses for the game for pre-owned copies of the game and even multi-user licenses for those who buy one copy of the disk and install it on multiple computers with the intent of more then one person playing it at a time. I very much doubt that something like that is currently workable with Steam.

**repton** · 22-09-2011 09:04

i have listened objectively to all the arguments both pro steam and anti steam on this thread and i remain anti steam. Nobody has yet convinced me that i need a piece of obtrusive software lodged on my computer that i do not need. If i was an ardent gamer i might perceive things differently but i am not and don't see why i need it.I only want to play FM12. If i am honest with myself i have become increasingly disenchanted with the FM franchise. Some releases have been not a lot more than glorified database updates and certain releases,FM09,were just plain awful. Consistently the software releases were riddled with bugs some of which made the game virtually unplayable until the January patches but despite this i persevered with the game and continued to buy, believing in this product. When i look back at my past experiences with this product and tag on the requirement to have steam on my computer i find that this is the straw that finally broke the camels back.I no longer need or require FM12 and my days of buying the product 'to support SI' has ended. I don't believe that the partnership between SI and SEGA has been beneficial to the development of the franchise and i believe that the product has only continued to be attractive as a result of the brilliant add on's that this wonderful community has provided. A sad day but this the end for me not just with FM12 but FM per se. Bye everyone

**Herter** · 22-09-2011 09:27

Originally Posted by repton

i have listened objectively to all the arguments both pro steam and anti steam on this thread and i remain anti steam. Nobody has yet convinced me that i need a piece of obtrusive software lodged on my computer that i do not need. If i was an ardent gamer i might perceive things differently but i am not and don't see why i need it.I only want to play FM12. If i am honest with myself i have become increasingly disenchanted with the FM franchise. Some releases have been not a lot more than glorified database updates and certain releases,FM09,were just plain awful. Consistently the software releases were riddled with bugs some of which made the game virtually unplayable until the January patches but despite this i persevered with the game and continued to buy, believing in this product. When i look back at my past experiences with this product and tag on the requirement to have steam on my computer i find that this is the straw that finally broke the camels back.I no longer need or require FM12 and my days of buying the product 'to support SI' has ended. I don't believe that the partnership between SI and SEGA has been beneficial to the development of the franchise and i believe that the product has only continued to be attractive as a result of the brilliant add on's that this wonderful community has provided. A sad day but this the end for me not just with FM12 but FM per se. Bye everyone

but i am not and don't see why i need it. - you need it if you want to play FM2012.. its actually that simple

Bye

**Loversleaper** · 22-09-2011 09:46

Originally Posted by spankie

Actually it wasn't a perfectly legal transaction. When you brought the game you paid for the license for you and you alone to play it. When you gave it to a friend or resold it that broke the EULA agreement even if you uninstalled it and never played it again.

The market for pre-owned games is actually a grey area legally and I wouldn't be surprised if at some point regulation comes that that restricts it is some way. Possibly where the owner of the IP of the game (in this case SI/Sega) gets paid a small percentage of any resold game by those companies like Game or HMV who do pre-owned games.

The other possibility is that games companies sell licenses for the game for pre-owned copies of the game and even multi-user licenses for those who buy one copy of the disk and install it on multiple computers with the intent of more then one person playing it at a time. I very much doubt that something like that is currently workable with Steam.

This is something I have a very hard time understanding. When you buy things you should be able to do with it as you please. There is a huge second-hand market everywhere, on the internet, in newspapers and even second-hand stores. What makes the gaming industry think that they can get around it? Movies and music are sold secondhand, you can also buy secondhand games at some of the gamming stores in my neighborhood. The gamming industry is just as vunerable to pirating then anything else you can think of in the free market. The gamming industry is one of the biggest markets in the world, so to think that they can make this move and present themselves as being above everyone else in a free market is just not right. Just like that time with Microsoft, I think this move will cause some debate - and we all knew how mighty and powerful Microsoft was...

**Eugene Tyson** · 22-09-2011 10:13

Originally Posted by Loversleaper

This is something I have a very hard time understanding. When you buy things you should be able to do with it as you please.

When you buy software you buying a license to use that software on your own computer. You don't own the actual software. You aren't really supposed to resell it on to others.

People have a right to protect their software and the illegal sale of the licenses they distribute.

If you buy through Steam or any game download clients, you most likely wouldn't be able to resell that software anyway.

If you buy through the disc option, you should be able to deactivate that license for your own use. And then sell the disc on.

This is usually how it's done. I buy software that costs literally thousands of euro, about every 18 months. And for me to resell that software when the new versions come out, I have to deactivate and you can no longer use it. Which is fair. You're selling it on. Why should you be able to continue using it?

Problem here with FM is that people were installing the game and then selling the game on. So now 2 or 3 or 4 people were using the same license that was sold in good faith to you to use on your own computer.

I don't blame SI or SEGA for taking this standpoint. They are losing sales because they weren't able to control the licenses they sold in good faith. People abused the system.

Now with Steam, they have a bit of control with the licenses they sell. And suddenly people are in an uproar about it?

At the end of the day SI and SEGA are just protecting their livelihoods against people that steal from them.

If you don't want to use Steam. Then you can't play FM12.

As for others that claim that Steam is "obtrusive" - it's not. It's a small client that you run. Uses same resources as having web browser open. If your computer can handle the min specs for Football Manager - it can handle running Steam.

**Loversleaper** · 22-09-2011 10:21

What's next then? Next time I buy an Armani suit I am actually not buying it but am buying a license to wear their fabric? I don't think you are thinking about the consequences of your implications, it's almost as if you agree that we should no longer have a free market...

If this were North Korea then we might have to except it, but unfortunately for some of you we actually live in a free democracy...

**milnerpoint** · 22-09-2011 10:30

Your acting like this is a new thing, it has always been the case for PC games, it has never been a free market. You buy a piece of software and your buying a license to use it, not the software itself. Consol's are completely different and work to different laws.
Your kidding yourself if you think living anywhere is a free democracy quite frankly.

**spankie** · 22-09-2011 10:33

Originally Posted by Loversleaper

This is something I have a very hard time understanding. When you buy things you should be able to do with it as you please. There is a huge second-hand market everywhere, on the internet, in newspapers and even second-hand stores. What makes the gaming industry think that they can get around it? Movies and music are sold secondhand, you can also buy secondhand games at some of the gamming stores in my neighborhood. The gamming industry is just as vunerable to pirating then anything else you can think of in the free market. The gamming industry is one of the biggest markets in the world, so to think that they can make this move and present themselves as being above everyone else in a free market is just not right. Just like that time with Microsoft, I think this move will cause some debate - and we all knew how mighty and powerful Microsoft was...

Have you actually read through all the blurb that shows whenever you watch a DVD? Most of them say something along the lines of not being allowed to sell on the DVD. But like you say the second hand market is huge and that agreement and the EULA agreement is not really enforceable.

I still think that thse selling of licenses for second hand use and multi-user licenses is the way to go in the future.
IIRC Dragon Age Origins did that through the backdoor so to speak by selling a DLC that was free for use by those who originally purchased the game. I think Mass Effect 2 did the same thing.
So perhaps SI can contrive of some extra desireable DLC that can be downloaded once per copy of the game and if the disk is legally resold they can charge for the DLC for the next person to own the disk.

**MBarbaric** · 22-09-2011 10:35

Originally Posted by Eugene Tyson

Problem here with FM is that people were installing the game and then selling the game on. So now 2 or 3 or 4 people were using the same license that was sold in good faith to you to use on your own computer.

I thought the problem was with pirate copies that shrunk the pre orders...

Originally Posted by Eugene Tyson

I don't blame SI or SEGA for taking this standpoint. They are losing sales because they weren't able to control the licenses they sold in good faith. People abused the system.

At the end of the day SI and SEGA are just protecting their livelihoods against people that steal from them.

If you don't want to use Steam. Then you can't play FM12.

I dont blame SI SEGA for taking this stand point either. After all, if steam doesn't **** up, they will reach bigger share of gamers' market and probably sell more copies than ever. Though, most of those people will play game for few days and never buy it again.

What i do blame SI SEGA for is that they have decided to give the community a nudge in the ribs. From the start of the game the community made this game good as it is, the community, the researchers are the heart and soul of this game and they make the difference. This move to steam is great business move for SI, no doubt (well if steam does its part), but it might be the beginning of the fall off the franchise.

As a faithful customer for over a decade and a half, SI has decided to turn a back on me as I have no possibility to play the game anymore (unless i move my desktop somewhere and log on steam) and I feel really disappointed about this decision. No doubt they will profit on it but what concerns me is the route they have taken and it seems to me worst things will come in future as this is just a beginning.

**MBarbaric** · 22-09-2011 10:40

Originally Posted by Loversleaper

What's next then? Next time I buy an Armani suit I am actually not buying it but am buying a license to wear their fabric? I don't think you are thinking about the consequences of your implications, it's almost as if you agree that we should no longer have a free market...

If this were North Korea then we might have to except it, but unfortunately for some of you we actually live in a free democracy...

well, he is completely right with what he has said, and no, it is not free market if you only have two companies in whole world that sell OS, is it?

**MSCCG** · 22-09-2011 10:46

Originally Posted by spankie

Actually it wasn't a perfectly legal transaction. When you brought the game you paid for the license for you and you alone to play it. When you gave it to a friend or resold it that broke the EULA agreement even if you uninstalled it and never played it again.

The market for pre-owned games is actually a grey area legally and I wouldn't be surprised if at some point regulation comes that that restricts it is some way. Possibly where the owner of the IP of the game (in this case SI/Sega) gets paid a small percentage of any resold game by those companies like Game or HMV who do pre-owned games.

The other possibility is that games companies sell licenses for the game for pre-owned copies of the game and even multi-user licenses for those who buy one copy of the disk and install it on multiple computers with the intent of more then one person playing it at a time. I very much doubt that something like that is currently workable with Steam.

Wait so if you buy it as a gift you've done something illegal as soon as you hand it to the other person?

What about if you wanted to try the game out to see if you think they would like it?

What about if you installed it on a computer that you were getting for somebody else?

What about if you installed it on your computer then gave the computer and all the software inside away?

What about if you sell your steam account?

What about if you install it, and never play it, then decide to sell it off?

what about if you found a copy of the game in someone's trash?

what about if someone steals the game off you? Who is owed?

It's not a huge deal that I don't get to do that, it's just a little sad when passing games among friends which is supposed to be a healthy social exercise, or passing things to younger siblings or reselling something you don't want to someone who might try it if it was cheaper is not allowed for the sake of possible extra income off people who may or may not buy it at full price.

**Loversleaper** · 22-09-2011 10:48

Originally Posted by milnerpoint

Your acting like this is a new thing, it has always been the case for PC games, it has never been a free market. You buy a piece of software and your buying a license to use it, not the software itself. Consol's are completely different and work to different laws.
Your kidding yourself if you think living anywhere is a free democracy quite frankly.

This is a big issue, what makes the gamming industry above everyone else in the free market? Of course they are going to try to monopolise their products for their own self interrest just as Microsoft did with their software. I know you enjoy the notion that we do not live in a free democracy, but you are kidding yourself if you think everyone is just like you and will just lie down and except it...

**milnerpoint** · 22-09-2011 10:52

The difference is you agree to this when you install the game, when you click yes to the terms and conditions, next time i would suggest reading them if your unsure where you stand. I'm not bothered about the rest of your post i was merely pointing out the law because you did not seem to know it, the rest of that post is for another thread and another time.

**Herter** · 22-09-2011 10:56

Originally Posted by MSCCG

Wait so if you buy it as a gift you've done something illegal as soon as you hand it to the other person?

No

What about if you wanted to try the game out to see if you think they would like it?

Its fine.. just uninstall before giving the game away

What about if you installed it on a computer that you were getting for somebody else?

Its fine

What about if you installed it on your computer then gave the computer and all the software inside away?

Normally you would format the harddrive before you sell your pc.. legally I dont think it is a problem unless you keep the physical CD while letting the software be installed on the sold PC

What about if you sell your steam account?

AFAIK you are not allowed to sell your Steam account and they close it if the find out

What about if you install it, and never play it, then decide to sell it off?

fine.. just uninstall before selling

what about if you found a copy of the game in someone's trash?

If you have the physical copy and obtained it legally you own the rights to use it.. then its fine

what about if someone steals the game off you? Who is owed?

you really dont know? - then they stole the physical copy, but you still legally own the rights to use it.

It's not a huge deal that I don't get to do that, it's just a little sad when passing games among friends which is supposed to be a healthy social exercise, or passing things to younger siblings or reselling something you don't want to someone who might try it if it was cheaper is not allowed for the sake of possible extra income off people who may or may not buy it at full price.

1010101010

**Super Bladesman** · 22-09-2011 10:56

Originally Posted by MSCCG

Wait so if you buy it as a gift you've done something illegal as soon as you hand it to the other person? - No. You agree to terms of the EULA (licence) during installation.

What about if you wanted to try the game out to see if you think they would like it? - SI release an extensive demo for this purpose.

What about if you installed it on a computer that you were getting for somebody else? - Technically, you'd probably have to let them install the game themselves, as they should be the ones agreeing to the terms of the EULA.

What about if you installed it on your computer then gave the computer and all the software inside away? - Legally, you should delete the software first. The same would go for Windows etc., so you'd probably be best just deleting the HDD.

What about if you sell your steam account? - The terms of the Steam registration and activation agreement do not permit the sale of a Steam account.

What about if you install it, and never play it, then decide to sell it off? - Tough.

what about if you found a copy of the game in someone's trash? - Not sure what the legalities of this are - probably depend on where you live. I think technically in the UK at least it is actually illegal to remove something from someone else's trash without permission, as it is still technically their property.

what about if someone steals the game off you? Who is owed? - This wouldn't be possible via Steam; the game is tied to your account, and so you'd just be able to re-install it on any PC.

See the above.

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