A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation

[milnerpoint]

That's the point, you see. He will not miss out, he'll simply use a pirated version (by "he" I mean an average user refusing to succumb to this nonsense). SEGA did the same thing with Total War series and the number of pirate players increased significantly...

So having to use a free third party tool will push people to steal, just so they dont have to use it and that theft can be justified because of SI's DRM choice?

[PW]

And your opinion is based on what, exactly?

It is based on my experience, other peoples experiences, and the fact that when I buy a game |I shopuld not be FORCED to download a 3rd party application to activate it.

[BayernMB]

What i seriously can't understand from the Pro-Steam side is the fact that they cannot, for whatever reason, simply understand that some people DON'T want to install Steam.

How about all the other programmes...why do you agree being forced to use directx...hit ctrl+alt+del and see a list of processes, frame network, flash, java...

[stevie_G_32201]

So having to use a free third party tool will push people to steal, just so they dont have to use it and that theft can be justified because of SI's DRM choice?

Well said.

[SCIAG]

So having to use a free third party tool will push people to steal, just so they dont have to use it and that theft can be justified because of SI's DRM choice?

It doesn't justify it, stop putting words in people's mouths. It's just that if you want people to do something (in this case, buy the game), you should make it as easy as possible for them to do that.

[scriba]

As has been mentioned earlier: If you fear you'll run into issues with Steam, it may be a good idea to get it right now and try downloading+running one of the many free demos that are on there.

This.

Just try it, it won't close you the Heaven's Gates.

[Dune297]

First off Steam has to run to play the game even in offline mode.
Secondly I am being forced to apply and have an account with a 3rd party company that in my opinion have absolutely rubbish customer service and have very very debatable privacy concerns.
THIS WILL NOT STOP PIRACY, it will not even dent the issue.
Another activation complete balls up by SI and Sega.

Why do you care if Steam runs, it'll hardly be noticeable?

[FM1000]

I dont understand how SI can claim that this is for the benefits of the loyal paying customers. Like any other software this game will be pirated, and so the people who will not pay for the game will be able to play it without Steam but those who do pay are forced to use Steam. It makes no sense. It would only make sense if SI took money from Steam for this so that's the only explanation.

[Ackter]

Guys, can we please stop pestering everyone who says they don't like Steam. They're perfectly within their rights to dislike it and don't have to justify that opinion to anyone.

Ok, if people don't adhere to this I'm going to have to start handing out infractions.

[Matt_no_7]

Guys, can we please stop pestering everyone who says they don't like Steam. They're perfectly within their rights to dislike it and don't have to justify that opinion to anyone.

Exactly! Besides the issue isn't why we dislike Steam, the issue is we dislike having our options limited. I don't hate Steam, i have nothing against it, i just don't want it on my PC, i refuse to download it and deal with it even if it is just once. Then again with these things it's never just once.

[milnerpoint]

It doesn't justify it, stop putting words in people's mouths. It's just that if you want people to do something (in this case, buy the game), you should make it as easy as possible for them to do that.

But thats not the issue here, the issue is people refusing to get the game because of steam, which if you have the internet is the easiest thing in the world, but yet people seem to suggest that by enforcing steam your encouraging theft and by the tone of the posts it seems people think this is acceptable enough, because hey its SI's fault, they drove these people to steal, so they can pay for it.

[Barside]

Dune, non Steam users DO NOT need to justify to you or anyone else why that decision has been made.

This thread should have gone down the route of, I'm happy with steam , I'm not happy steam sp why isn't there a backup/second option.

Just my opinion - Edit: Looks like Ackter beat me to it & he has more power than I do.

[PW]

Why do you care if Steam runs, it'll hardly be noticeable?

Because I know what data Steam get, what they use it for, and for christs sake people use your intelligence.
Why are Sega/SI going down this road..........are they really really worried about the piracy issue..............or can they see the cash cow coming.
As a consumer I want choice not a dictatorship, and I will vote by not buying FM again until it changes.
Won't make any difference to money grabbing Sega and ever increasing SI which has gone completely from its roots but sometimes you gotta do what ya gotta do.

[Dune297]

Guys, can we please stop pestering everyone who says they don't like Steam. They're perfectly within their rights to dislike it and don't have to justify that opinion to anyone.

If they don't like Steam they obviously have a problem with it. And I'm curious of the problem so I can help myself as well as them figure out this problem and perhaps change their attitude towards it so they'd get to enjoy a game they love.

[BayernMB]

Exactly! Besides the issue isn't why we dislike Steam, the issue is we dislike having our options limited. I don't hate Steam, i have nothing against it, i just don't want it on my PC, i refuse to download it and deal with it even if it is just once. Then again with these things it's never just once.

OK you dislike it, refuse to download it, no problem - your choice.

[Ackter]

Because I know what data Steam get, what they use it for, and for christs sake people use your intelligence.
Why are Sega/SI going down this road..........are they really really worried about the piracy issue..............or can they see the cash cow coming.
As a consumer I want choice not a dictatorship, and I will vote by not buying FM again until it changes.
Won't make any difference to money grabbing Sega and ever increasing SI which has gone completely from its roots but sometimes you gotta do what ya gotta do.

SI are genuinely concerned about piracy - it has already destroyed one of their products in Eastside Hockey Manager (RIP )

[Cougar2010]

How about all the other programmes...why do you agree being forced to use directx...hit ctrl+alt+del and see a list of processes, frame network, flash, java...

There is a difference between programmes needed for others to work and those that aren't.

Steam is not needed at a technical level for FM to function.

[PW]

SI are genuinely concerned about piracy - it has already destroyed one of their products in Eastside Hockey Manager (RIP )

Piracy is an issue no doubt but this isn't the solution and believe me they are destroying their own product with this decision.

[Dune297]

Because I know what data Steam get, what they use it for, and for christs sake people use your intelligence.

You mean this data? It's completely anonymous.

[stevie_G_32201]

Ok, if people don't adhere to this I'm going to have to start handing out infractions.

Are you serious? Acting in that manner for asking a simple question? What has this forum become.

[Ackter]

Piracy is an issue no doubt but this isn't the solution and believe me they are destroying their own product with this decision.

There is no solution to piracy, SI are hoping this makes enough of a difference to make it worthwhile.

It might, it might not. The only way to tell is with time.

[BayernMB]

Because I know what data Steam get, what they use it for, and for christs sake people use your intelligence.
Why are Sega/SI going down this road..........are they really really worried about the piracy issue..............or can they see the cash cow coming.
As a consumer I want choice not a dictatorship, and I will vote by not buying FM again until it changes.
Won't make any difference to money grabbing Sega and ever increasing SI which has gone completely from its roots but sometimes you gotta do what ya gotta do.

Could you please tell me what they did worth my data, since I'm a satisfied Steam customer since 2008...

And yes, as a consumer you have a choice, nobody forces you to buy this game.

[Ackter]

Are you serious? Acting in that manner for asking a simple question? What has this forum become.

There's a difference between asking one question and jumping on every single user who says they dislike a product.

[PW]

There is no solution to piracy, SI are hoping this makes enough of a difference to make it worthwhile.

It might, it might not. The only way to tell is with time.

Just like the last time they had the bright idea of activation and then produced the greatest **** up of all times in releasing a game that many couldn't activate.
Piracy is not the main reason for it..........money is.

[BayernMB]

There is a difference between programmes needed for others to work and those that aren't.

Steam is not needed at a technical level for FM to function.

sorry mate, but they are 3rd party programms...and now you'll need it to run FM - how does it matter if it+s on a technical level or any other...it's something which runs in the background.

[PW]

Could you please tell me what they did worth my data, since I'm a satisfied Steam customer since 2008...

And yes, as a consumer you have a choice, nobody forces you to buy this game.

Check out their terms and conditions, ask any computer literate lawyer, and then decide if being FORCED to use 3rd party software that the game DOESN'T need to run the game is worthwhile.
Of course I have a choice and its been made.

[stevie_G_32201]

There's a difference between asking one question and jumping on every single user who says they dislike a product.

People are well within their right to love or hate steam, the forums are here for discussion of opinions. I've seen nothing offensive, racist or threatening, There is nothing wrong with banter.

[rancer890]

Piracy is an issue no doubt but this isn't the solution and believe me they are destroying their own product with this decision.

Steam isn't the ideal solution but I think that if EHM was on Steam SI would still be producing it (better than that terrible system called elicense...). I don't think there will be a massive drop in sales though tbh even with Steam.

[Cougar2010]

sorry mate, but they are 3rd party programms...and now you'll need it to run FM - how does it matter if it+s on a technical level or any other...it's something which runs in the background.

I get the impression you're intelligent enough to know the difference, I'll just leave it at that.

[BayernMB]

Check out their terms and conditions, ask any computer literate lawyer, and then decide if being FORCED to use 3rd party software that the game DOESN'T need to run the game is worthwhile.
Of course I have a choice and its been made.

I thinkn that Terms and Conditions for FM12 aren't out yet, and I'm certain that you can't apply the ones from previous versions.

[PW]

Steam isn't the ideal solution but I think that if EHM was on Steam SI would still be producing it (better than that terrible system called elicense...). I don't think there will be a massive drop in sales though tbh even with Steam.

Probably not a massive drop but people need to realise the decision being made is FORCING them to use a 3rd party application that the game DOESN'T need to run..............that this decision is unlikely to even dent piracy..........that the reason is money not piracy..........and that everyone that does buy will no doubt in a few years be forced to purchase the game via Steam only and for an inflated price.

[Ackter]

I thinkn that Terms and Conditions for FM12 aren't out yet, and I'm certain that you can't apply the ones from previous versions.

These are the T&C for Steam:

http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

The FM2012 ones will be similar to those of FM2011.

[BayernMB]

I get the impression you're intelligent enough to know the difference, I'll just leave it at that.

I do know the difference, but from a practical perspective it doesn't make a difference for me (I don't see any behaviour on my PC, game doesn't work slower, it plays the same) if Steam runs in background or not.

[PW]

I thinkn that Terms and Conditions for FM12 aren't out yet, and I'm certain that you can't apply the ones from previous versions.

The reply was in relation to Steam not FM12.

[BayernMB]

The reply was in relation to Steam not FM12.

Sorry on that one...my mistake.

[Cougar2010]

I do know the difference, but from a practical perspective it doesn't make a difference for me (I don't see any behaviour on my PC, game doesn't work slower, it plays the same) if Steam runs in background or not.

You honestly don't see/have a problem with a 3rd party unconnected with SI or even Sega having control over a game you have purchased?

[SCIAG]

Steam isn't the ideal solution but I think that if EHM was on Steam SI would still be producing it (better than that terrible system called elicense...). I don't think there will be a massive drop in sales though tbh even with Steam.

Why don't SI just release EHM via Steam if that will make a significant difference to sales? I mean, it's a fairly popular game, though not as popular as FM- surely they could make some money from it if they could sell it at a lower rate of piracy?

[pigfacemonkeyman]

SI are genuinely concerned about piracy - it has already destroyed one of their products in Eastside Hockey Manager (RIP )

Was a lack of marketing in appropriate countries a contributing factor at all to the failure of this product?

[americanista]

I love FM i been a fan since 2005 edition. but i hate steam i have no problem verifying my game thats ok but i do not want to be forced to use steam even if is only used one time. i dont want to be forced to use that cra%$# service.
yo amo el football manager llevo tiempo siguiendole el paso lo e comprado desde la edicion 2005 pero esto es el colmo esta bien que quieran verificar el juego estoy de acuerdo con eso esta franquisia merece ser comprada legalmente pero no me gusta ser obligado a usar steam que para mi es un servicio de pacotilla con el cual e tenido muy malas experiencias.
de igual manera me pillare la edicion 2012 pero es es una decepsion.

[BayernMB]

These are the T&C for Steam:

http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

The FM2012 ones will be similar to those of FM2011.

By nature I'm quite a sloppy reader, but I haven't found anything scary there (altough I admit that this ling is the first "Terms and Conditions" I've ever read a bit more thoroughly

[Matt_no_7]

OK you dislike it, refuse to download it, no problem - your choice.

I shall, however having seen the uproar on this i may end up buying it anyway when Si and Sega see how many customers they will lose through this. This forum has a very good, diverse cross section of customers. Now from those poles if you imagine before the announcement was made that all those saying "No, i won't buy it!" were going to buy it, Si look like losing maybe 40% of their planned sales. Now that's a massive hit if you imagine that those voting equal's their total customer base (i know it doesn't but hoping you get the idea). I've said it before, we can change a companies mind, EA were forced to back track on Fight Night 4 and give customers a free button control DLC after many refused to buy it and cancelled their pre-orders a couple of years back.

I'm thinking they may back track on this when they see how much they may lose in total sales due to this announcement.

[PW]

Was a lack of marketing in appropriate countries a contributing factor at all to the failure of this product?

FM11 didn't have activation, if piracy was going to collapse the series why didn't it??????
Piracy is an issue but believe me a games company dictating to me that I have to have a 3rd party account, 3rd party software, and that that software has to run the game everytime I play it (offline or online) is a much bigger problem.

[adamstudley]

IMO when SI/Sega are referring to 'piracy' they are not talking about people who will download torrents or such to play the game, as obviously this wont have any effect on them what-so-ever.

The target is casual 'piracy' such as two people living together who share a copy of the game. These people don't look upon this as piracy and it isn't done maliciously. As such with this sytem being introduced they will both have to purchase a copy of the game (which they will more than likely do). This kind of 'piracy' probably takes place an awful lot and would potentially increase sales significantly.

The other target is the second hand gaming market, through which SI/Sega make no money. When it has been said that no secondary option has been deemed acceptable for activation this basically means that there is no other way for them to prevent re-sale. Again, with no re-sale market direct sales will likely increase significantly.

Whilst I really don't want to use steam it looks like I will have to as I want to play the game. Unfortunately this is something that everyone will have to adjust to, or forget about playing the game (legally anyway).

I must say I can't blame them as I would want to make more money too, if it was me - and I don't think anyone else could claim otherwise.

[SCIAG]

Was a lack of marketing in appropriate countries a contributing factor at all to the failure of this product?

Anecdotal evidence suggests so, but Miles was very clear when he announced EHM's demise that Riz would still be making it if X number of people who pirated it had gone out and purchased it.

[Dune297]

Probably not a massive drop but people need to realise the decision being made is FORCING them to use a 3rd party application that the game DOESN'T need to run..............that this decision is unlikely to even dent piracy..........that the reason is money not piracy..........and that everyone that does buy will no doubt in a few years be forced to purchase the game via Steam only and for an inflated price.

It's the regular $40.00 in America. No inflated prices here.

[Scab]

You have to sign up and see all the spam what comes with it like oh we have Civ 5 for 12.99, you get the picture, it's ramming there services down your throat.

Not intending to get into the Steam vs. no Steam discussion - everyone can make their own choice on that - but for the sake of full disclosure, sale popups can be disabled and the default tab changed from "Store" to whichever you prefer, such as your games library, should these be things you don't want to see.

[BayernMB]

You honestly don't see/have a problem with a 3rd party unconnected with SI or even Sega having control over a game you have purchased?

I admit that I'm not the most neutral person here, since I've used FM on Steam since it became available there, but personally I don't see a problem as long as I'm able to play the game the same way I played it before. Become the manager of my favourite team and kick ass in the league.

[Kriss]

It's actually irelevant to me why they chose to go with Steam activation (just as it was with Civ V etc) my only concern is that I can play my games with no hassle.

In 3 years with Steam I've done exactly that, and I've done it from UK, Belfast, Egypt, Hawaii, Malaysia, Prague, Paris and all over the USA, without the need to carry a disc or even take a laptop.

The job now surely is to ensure that those who elect to try it have as trouble free an experience as I have.

Then eventually those who are so adamantly against it may have enough factual evidence to persuade them to give it a try.

I have to say I was as vehemently against it (on the third party software agenda) as some of these people are now, my grandson blackguarded me into it and I'm now grateful that he did.

[SCIAG]

It's the regular $40.00 in America. No inflated prices here.

That's an exchange rate of about 1:2. The exchange rate at the moment is nothing like that.

I think PW's point was that he believes that competition is slowly going to be removed, therefore allowing Steam to charge more.

[PW]

I admit that I'm not the most neutral person here, since I've used FM on Steam since it became available there, but personally I don't see a problem as long as I'm able to play the game the same way I played it before. Become the manager of my favourite team and kick ass in the league.

Thats fine if you want to play the game in the way you choose.
Other people don't want to play it that way and should have the choice not to.
Lets hope 2 other brothers in a bedroom develop a game and then don't sell it to Sega and the cash cows.

[PW]

That's an exchange rate of about 1:2. The exchange rate at the moment is nothing like that.

I think PW's point was that he believes that competition is slowly going to be removed, therefore allowing Steam to charge more.

Exactly, people have to look beyond the end of their noses.

[rancer890]

Why don't SI just release EHM via Steam if that will make a significant difference to sales? I mean, it's a fairly popular game, though not as popular as FM- surely they could make some money from it if they could sell it at a lower rate of piracy?

It would make a significant difference because people in Canada and the US had no access at all (actually we have no idea it existed). I saw a grand total of 1 copy of EHM05 in Canada, at a local market in a messy PC games department of Wal-Mart. That's how I bought EHM07 and signed up to the forums in the first place. Marketing a hockey game to the UK and rest of Europe was never going to work.

SI have all but given up on EHM. They pulled the plug on the series and you can't even buy it on elicense.

[SeanNUFC]

IMO when SI/Sega are referring to 'piracy' they are not talking about people who will download torrents or such to play the game, as obviously this wont have any effect on them what-so-ever.

The target is casual 'piracy' such as two people living together who share a copy of the game. These people don't look upon this as piracy and it isn't done maliciously. As such with this sytem being introduced they will both have to purchase a copy of the game (which they will more than likely do). This kind of 'piracy' probably takes place an awful lot and would potentially increase sales significantly.

The other target is the second hand gaming market, through which SI/Sega make no money. When it has been said that no secondary option has been deemed acceptable for activation this basically means that there is no other way for them to prevent re-sale. Again, with no re-sale market direct sales will likely increase significantly.

Whilst I really don't want to use steam it looks like I will have to as I want to play the game. Unfortunately this is something that everyone will have to adjust to, or forget about playing the game (legally anyway).

I must say I can't blame them as I would want to make more money too, if it was me - and I don't think anyone else could claim otherwise.

Nice post.

[Kriss]

There's plenty of competition for Steam as far as prices go, remember you don't have to buy anything from Steam to use their facilities including FM12.

[BayernMB]

Thats fine if you want to play the game in the way you choose.
Other people don't want to play it that way and should have the choice not to.
Lets hope 2 other brothers in a bedroom develop a game and then don't sell it to Sega and the cash cows.

It's never "the way you choose"...should I moan up here, because for 10 years SI forced me to put my CD/DVD into the computer...again I say I'm not neutral, because SI going to digital download helped me getting FM on release day, which I wasn't able to do before that, because the DVD's were released weeks later here...but my point is I don't see valid argument in "I refuse to install Steam", I would understand it if it came with tons of viruses or pop-up messages which would slow down your PC. But of cours everyone is absolutely entitled to their opinion...

[PW]

It's never "the way you choose"...should I moan up here, because for 10 years SI forced me to put my CD/DVD into the computer...again I say I'm not neutral, because SI going to digital download helped me getting FM on release day, which I wasn't able to do before that, because the DVD's were released weeks later here...but my point is I don't see valid argument in "I refuse to install Steam", I would understand it if it came with tons of viruses or pop-up messages which would slow down your PC. But of cours everyone is absolutely entitled to their opinion...

I don't think stating that you don't want to pop a DVD in a drive is the same to downloading 3rd party software, opening a 3rd party account, and then using a 3rd party application to run the game is a wise comparision.
Everyone does have an opinion and I demand choice as a consumer not a dictatorship.
Pity anyone without an internet connection, believe it or not there are still alot about and having to go to a library or someones house just to activate a product and put money in Sega's little tin is a bit demeaning.
Hope the box makes it clear in bold.

[Dune297]

I don't think stating that you don't want to pop a DVD in a drive is the same to downloading 3rd party software, opening a 3rd party account, and then using a 3rd party application to run the game is a wise comparision.
Everyone does have an opinion and I demand choice as a consumer not a dictatorship.
Pity anyone without an internet connection, believe it or not there are still alot about and having to go to a library or someones house just to activate a product and put money in Sega's little tin is a bit demeaning.
Hope the box makes it clear in bold.

You have a choice where to buy it from, just not where to activate it. It really doesn't matter since you'll be dealing with Steam once for 5 minutes. I don't see the problem.

[PW]

You have a choice where to buy it from, just not where to activate it. It really doesn't matter since you'll be dealing with Steam once for 5 minutes. I don't see the problem.

I DON'T have a choice where to activate it, I DON'T have a choice not to have to download a 3rd party application, I DON'T have a choice not to have to keep that 3rd party application on my PC for the game to run, I DON'T have a choice not to have to sign up for a 3rd party account.
But yes AT THE MOMENT Sega/SI do allow me to but it in Tesco's or Game....................oh thank you I'm so grateful!

[BayernMB]

I don't think stating that you don't want to pop a DVD in a drive is the same to downloading 3rd party software, opening a 3rd party account, and then using a 3rd party application to run the game is a wise comparision.
Everyone does have an opinion and I demand choice as a consumer not a dictatorship.
Pity anyone without an internet connection, believe it or not there are still alot about and having to go to a library or someones house just to activate a product and put money in Sega's little tin is a bit demeaning.
Hope the box makes it clear in bold.

Again, from my point of view it's less a hassle to register there and get Steam once than having to pop a DVD every time you want to play a game...

[R0ca]

Wow Emotive topic.

Personally i feel sorry for those who won't be able to play this years game, for whatever reason. Personally i'm lucky steam has been ok for me and i'll continue to activate the game via steam as i did last year. Sadly this isn't possibly for everyone so my sympathy to those who are unable and who have been alienated by this decision.

My biggest concern for SI is the amount of people this could push towards Piracy of football manager. I'd be willing to bet that of those people who wont purchase the game due to Steam, some of them will play a illegal copy of this a game and this must be a concern for SI?

If any of this post is in any way breaking any rules feel free to edit ~

[PW]

Again, from my point of view it's less a hassle to register there and get Steam once than having to pop a DVD every time you want to play a game...

Yes so give us a CHOICE you do it your way me my way.

[Dune297]

I DON'T have a choice where to activate it, I DON'T have a choice not to have to download a 3rd party application, I DON'T have a choice not to have to keep that 3rd party application on my PC for the game to run, I DON'T have a choice not to have to sign up for a 3rd party account.
But yes AT THE MOMENT Sega/SI do allow me to but it in Tesco's or Game....................oh thank you I'm so grateful!

Five minutes isn't really going to kill you. You don't even have to know it's there.

[PW]

Wow Emotive topic.

Personally i feel sorry for those who won't be able to play this years game, for whatever reason. Personally i'm lucky steam has been ok for me and i'll continue to activate the game via steam as i did last year. Sadly this isn't possibly for everyone so my sympathy to those who are unable and who have been alienated by this decision.

My biggest concern for SI is the amount of people this could push towards Piracy of football manager. I'd be willing to bet that of those people who wont purchase the game due to Steam, some of them will play a illegal copy of this a game and this must be a concern for SI?


If any of this post is in any way breaking any rules feel free to edit ~

Exactly this adds to piracy not detracts from it.

[PW]

Five minutes isn't really going to kill you. You don't even have to know it's there.

It won't kill me no, thanks for pointing that out.
It will mean I have to be signed up for a 3rd party account, it will mean that I have to have that 3rd party software on my pc constantly, and it will mean that this 3rd party software will be needed to run the game............so much clearer now.

[SeanNUFC]

God it feels like this thread is going round in circles on every page. And people wonder why the poll thread was closed.

[Cougar2010]

You have a choice where to buy it from, just not where to activate it. It really doesn't matter since you'll be dealing with Steam once for 5 minutes. I don't see the problem.

Thats simply not true Dune.

You will need to open & connect to Steam to activate FM.
Steam will open & run in either online or offline mode every time you play FM (This can be set to just be in the background on your taskbar).
You will need to open & connect to Steam to install patches (Although not confirmed I'm 99% sure as thats how other games work on Steam).
You will need to deal with Steam if you encounter any problems with the Steam program.

[PW]

Thats simply not true Dune.

You will need to open & connect to Steam to activate FM.
Steam will open & run in either online or offline mode every time you play FM (This can be set to just be in the background on your taskbar).
You will need to open & connect to Steam to install patches (Although not confirmed I'm 99% sure as thats how other games work on Steam).
You will need to deal with Steam if you encounter any problems with the Steam program.

Exactly someone who actually looks beyond the end of their nose and understands that it isn't quite as basic as Sega/SI or some other people think so.
People who like Steam and the way it runs great, good for you. But CHOICE as a consumer is King.

[BayernMB]

Yes so give us a CHOICE you do it your way me my way.

I understand your point, but I could be mean and say, that for years I didn't have a choice... You just don't have a choice with every product...sad fact but that's how it is. Again - my point of view, but I wouldn't miss a version of FM because I don't want Steam (as it doesn't do anything bad on my computer), since I get much more joy out of it than problems through installing Steam...

[SRKI]

Haven't been here for a while but I don't like what I see
STEAM NO!!!
In my opinion SI should consider the paradox way of registering
You by the game you register it on the forums and you gain access to Editors Hideaway to tech support, updates and some other coll stuff SI don't have to pay for any protection
The only problem is you get tempted to pirate the game because you can play it for free whit out bothering to crack it (I know I did but I prevailed )
But to be honest even if I have to go and get steam to play FM I'll by it like every year (yes I'm one of the rear ones from Serbia who buy games and programs and my friends make fun of me for that)

[Kriss]

God it feels like this thread is going round in circles on every page. And people wonder why the poll thread was closed.

Of course it is, not many people are going to read 15 pages to discover if their concern has already been addressed so it'll just cycle on as there's actually nothing new to add (that I can think of anyway)

[Dune297]

It won't kill me no, thanks for pointing that out.
It will mean I have to be signed up for a 3rd party account, it will mean that I have to have that 3rd party software on my pc constantly, and it will mean that this 3rd party software will be needed to run the game............so much clearer now.

I'll say it again. You won't even notice it's there.

[PW]

I understand your point, but I could be mean and say, that for years I didn't have a choice... You just don't have a choice with every product...sad fact but that's how it is. Again - my point of view, but I wouldn't miss a version of FM because I don't want Steam (as it doesn't do anything bad on my computer), since I get much more joy out of it than problems through installing Steam...

That's like sayiong the DVD manufacturers aren't giving me a choice they are MAKING me put the damn thing in the DVD player the gits!
Nothing compared to 3rd party software and accounts.

[SCIAG]

I'll say it again. You won't even notice it's there.

Until you close it, when an advertisement will pop up for Valve's latest game, or a sale.

[Ackter]

Ok, final warning:

If you have questions about Steam and FM then please ask and someone will try and answer them
If you are unhappy with the decision to use Steam as the sole activation service then please do voice your opinions
If you are happy with the decision then, again, please do voice your opinions.

However, please do not continuously argue with each other, repeating the same points over and over again in some form of never-ending limbo.

Thanks.

[leftback in the changing room]

Well there was no answer forthcoming from my question about 5 hours ago - "Can we download a patch from any other source rather than Steam's auto update feature" - aside from Ackter giving as honest an answer as he could earlier on to somebody else: 'I don't know'

So let me try another tack: "Can SI/SEGA assure us that when a user activates the game, Steam will not automatically download a patch"?

Because IIRC, people firing up the most recent Total War found themselves downloading a 1GB file when activating. Which might not be an issue for those blessed with superfast broadband connections, but for people on relatively slow connections it's a pain, for people with dowwnload limits it's an expensive mistake, and for people on dial-up it'll be an absolute nightmare. And it will render their purchase unplayable.

[Dune297]

Ok, final warning:

If you have questions about Steam and FM then please ask and someone will try and answer them
If you are unhappy with the decision to use Steam as the sole activation service then please do voice your opinions
If you are happy with the decision then, again, please do voice your opinions.

However, please do not continuously argue with each other, repeating the same points over and over again in some form of never-ending limbo.

Thanks.

So if somebody makes a rather absurd point we aren't allowed to argue against it? What's the point in this discussion then?

[PW]

Well there was no answer forthcoming from my question about 5 hours ago - "Can we download a patch from any other source rather than Steam's auto update feature" - aside from Ackter giving as honest an answer as he could earlier on to somebody else: 'I don't know'

So let me try another tack: "Can SI/SEGA assure us that when a user activates the game, Steam will not automatically download a patch"?

Because IIRC, people firing up the most recent Total War found themselves downloading a 1GB file when activating. Which might not be an issue for those blessed with superfast broadband connections, but for people on relatively slow connections it's a pain, for people with dowwnload limits it's an expensive mistake, and for people on dial-up it'll be an absolute nightmare. And it will render their purchase unplayable.

I think that there is a reason that question hasn't been answered don't you!!!!

[stevie_G_32201]

Well there was no answer forthcoming from my question about 5 hours ago - "Can we download a patch from any other source rather than Steam's auto update feature" - aside from Ackter giving as honest an answer as he could earlier on to somebody else: 'I don't know'

So let me try another tack: "Can SI/SEGA assure us that when a user activates the game, Steam will not automatically download a patch"?

Because IIRC, people firing up the most recent Total War found themselves downloading a 1GB file when activating. Which might not be an issue for those blessed with superfast broadband connections, but for people on relatively slow connections it's a pain, for people with dowwnload limits it's an expensive mistake, and for people on dial-up it'll be an absolute nightmare. And it will render their purchase unplayable.

I can assure you that auto patching CAN be turned off.

[Barside]

For all those worried about a financial link between Sega & Steam/Valve any concerns could be confirmed or debunked by accessing SegaSammys financial reports, I assume they are a Nikkei listed company therefore such data should be readily available & may also serve to demonstrate any revenue trends & more importantly you can go back to them next year to see if their corporate wide link with Steam results in a increase of decrease in retail game revenue.

Just a thought, not one I'm going to look into on a Saturday night or if I'm honest any other night as I hate reading corporate financial reports & it's not an area that greatly bothers me.

[SCIAG]

Can SI assure us that we will not see a repeat of the fiasco that happened when the Mac OS was updated recently and Steam users were not able to play FM?

[Dune297]

Well there was no answer forthcoming from my question about 5 hours ago - "Can we download a patch from any other source rather than Steam's auto update feature" - aside from Ackter giving as honest an answer as he could earlier on to somebody else: 'I don't know'

So let me try another tack: "Can SI/SEGA assure us that when a user activates the game, Steam will not automatically download a patch"?

Because IIRC, people firing up the most recent Total War found themselves downloading a 1GB file when activating. Which might not be an issue for those blessed with superfast broadband connections, but for people on relatively slow connections it's a pain, for people with dowwnload limits it's an expensive mistake, and for people on dial-up it'll be an absolute nightmare. And it will render their purchase unplayable.

Steam will only automatically download it if you have two things.

#1. Steam must be in online mode. If it's in offline mode, you won't be able to download it.
#2. If you like Steam in online mode, but don't want automatic updates, you can simply right click on the game in your library, hit properties, hit updates, and hit "Do not automatically update this game."

[BayernMB]

That's like sayiong the DVD manufacturers aren't giving me a choice they are MAKING me put the damn thing in the DVD player the gits!
Nothing compared to 3rd party software and accounts.

Look, by nature I'm a lazy person...if I compare the time I've spent getting my CM/FM CD/DVD opening the box, putting DVD in, waiting for DVD ROM so start reading it (screaming at the computer when DVD was scratched or DVD ROM was almost broken - which happened often at this time of year) and the time it takes me to interact with Steam since release date till release date of next FM---absolutely no comparison.

[themadsheep2001]

Well there was no answer forthcoming from my question about 5 hours ago - "Can we download a patch from any other source rather than Steam's auto update feature" - aside from Ackter giving as honest an answer as he could earlier on to somebody else: 'I don't know'

So let me try another tack: "Can SI/SEGA assure us that when a user activates the game, Steam will not automatically download a patch"?

Because IIRC, people firing up the most recent Total War found themselves downloading a 1GB file when activating. Which might not be an issue for those blessed with superfast broadband connections, but for people on relatively slow connections it's a pain, for people with dowwnload limits it's an expensive mistake, and for people on dial-up it'll be an absolute nightmare. And it will render their purchase unplayable.

As long as you set it to offline mode after activation, Steam wont automatically download anything. You can also set it to not automatically update a game

[Ackter]

So if somebody makes a rather absurd point we aren't allowed to argue against it? What's the point in this discussion then?

It's not a discussion when it's just two people shouting "because I say so" at each other.

[Ackter]

I think that there is a reason that question hasn't been answered don't you!!!!

Yes, it's a weekend and the people who know the answers probably aren't at work.

[Dune297]

I think that there is a reason that question hasn't been answered don't you!!!!

I just answered it.

#1. Steam must be in online mode. If it's in offline mode, you won't be able to download it.
#2. If you like Steam in online mode, but don't want automatic updates, you can simply right click on the game in your library, hit properties, hit updates, and hit "Do not automatically update this game."

[Ackter]

I can assure you that auto patching CAN be turned off.

It can, yes - but if it begins a download before you get to the point that you can turn it off, as leftback suggests, then it could be a problem.

[PW]

I just answered it.

No it isn't as simple as you suggest as per the other posts.

[Wavelberry]

Steam eh? I've had no problems with it and bought both FM2010 and 2011 through it on my computer. It has been easy to use and seems to be the simplest way for me to buy the game as I have constant internet access so it's easy to update etc.

However, if you don't have access to the internet you can't play the game when you buy the boxed copy. That seems a bit off to me.
You don't have a choice of whether to download a 3rd party programme or not. You must download it to play the game and even if you don't notice it's there it is still there. That seems a bit off to me.
Release date last year and the year before was slow going on the Steam servers. Will this happen again?
If the Steam servers are down (which has happened maybe once or twice to me this year) you cannot play the game you paid for even if you've bought a boxed copy.

I don't mind personally as it won't affect the way I buy or play the game but for quite a few people (and I'm not just talking about fairly savvy forum users who have moral objections to allowing 3rd party software onto their computer) this will cause some problems. Is this a risk worth taking? Time will tell I guess.

[Dune297]

No it isn't as simple as you suggest as per the other posts.

It is that simple. All you do is go to properties -> Updates -> Do Not Automatically Update This Game.

[Piussi]

my copy of FM11 hasent left my disk drive since ive bought the game.. So i don't care about that argument.. when i played the FM11 demo on steam i hated it

[BayernMB]

Steam eh? I've had no problems with it and bought both FM2010 and 2011 through it on my computer. It has been easy to use and seems to be the simplest way for me to buy the game as I have constant internet access so it's easy to update etc.

However, if you don't have access to the internet you can't play the game when you buy the boxed copy. That seems a bit off to me.
You don't have a choice of whether to download a 3rd party programme or not. You must download it to play the game and even if you don't notice it's there it is still there. That seems a bit off to me.
Release date last year and the year before was slow going on the Steam servers. Will this happen again?
If the Steam servers are down (which has happened maybe once or twice to me this year) you cannot play the game you paid for even if you've bought a boxed copy.

I don't mind personally as it won't affect the way I buy or play the game but for quite a few people (and I'm not just talking about fairly savvy forum users who have moral objections to allowing 3rd party software onto their computer) this will cause some problems. Is this a risk worth taking? Time will tell I guess.

You can play without internet connection...my provider is doing some upgrading and for last two weeks, I more often than not don't have an internet connection...you just start steam in offline mode. You can do the same trick when Steam servers are down. Of course you need the internet and these servers for activation, but after that you're off the hook.

[Dune297]

It is that simple. All you do is go to properties -> Updates -> Do Not Automatically Update This Game.

Here's a screenshot to help.

[PW]

my copy of FM11 hasent left my disk drive since ive bought the game.. So i don't care about that argument.. when i played the FM11 demo on steam i hated it

When we had the last activation balls up by Sega/SI I tried Steam against many peoples advice..........never again.

[Barside]

my copy of FM11 hasent left my disk drive since ive bought the game.. So i don't care about that argument.. when i played the FM11 demo on steam i hated it

WHS^^

That's why I have multiple driver bays

[BayernMB]

I think the problem might be if anyone buys the game in January and the two patches are out and the game starts updating at the moment he registers it...I'm not sure if I can cancel patching at that time.

[Cougar2010]

Here's a screenshot to help.

That wasn't the question.

The question was "Would any update start when activating the game (ie Patch 1) before you had the chance to select the option you've shown above"

[BayernMB]

When we had the last activation balls up by Sega/SI I tried Steam against many peoples advice..........never again.

So you have a Steam account... no, but seriously what is your main concern using Steam?

[PW]

I think the problem might be if anyone buys the game in January and the two patches are out and the game starts updating at the moment he registers it...I'm not sure if I can cancel patching at that time.

Exactly there are issues at times that can make these problems occur, not quite as easy as some would make you believe.

[PW]

So you have a Steam account... no, but seriously what is your main concern using Steam?

No it was deleted, and that took a bit of legal savvy to get that done as well.
I've posted alot in last hour so read away can't repeat it all again.