What PPM's should I train this awesome regen?

[Erith22]

I've gotten a once in a lifetime regen, and want to make sure I get him the right PPMs. Currently he only has 'plays one-twos'.

He still has a decent amount of growth potential.

[achilles-the-victorious]

Moves into channels, likes to beat offside trap (maybe), dribbles through the center, and 'shoots from distance' (just kidding about this one).

Maybe 'places shots'. move into channels, dribble through center.

[Erith22]

What about 'tries first time shots'?

[achilles-the-victorious]

Its a decent choice, wouldn't take it (first) over 'moves into channels', or 'places shots', though, personally.

[Erith22]

Ok, thanks, and finally, what about 'rounds keeper' or 'lobs keeper'?

[Keyzer Soze]

It all depends on your tactic. I always choose the ppm's in order to improve my tactic.
In any case, "move into channels" and try to "beat the offside trap" are always mandatory to me. If i play him as a lone striker, i like the "come deeps to get the ball".

[Erith22]

Thanks.

I play a 4-4-2 with him as an advanced forward and the other as a Deep lying forward (support). I tried about 10 other formations but this one just works best with my personnel.

[achilles-the-victorious]

Rounding the keeper and chipping the keeper happen very rarely. VERY RARELY.

'Moving into channels' or 'beating offside traps' applies practically every game.

[Äktsjon Männ]

Rounding the keeper and chipping the keeper happen very rarely. VERY RARELY.

'Moving into channels' or 'beating offside traps' applies practically every game.

Indeed. And considering this guy's technical ability I wouldn't bother with 'places shots' either. He's more than capable of smacking them in with whatever technique he chooses, no reason to limit him.

[tektonik]

Indeed. And considering this guy's technical ability I wouldn't bother with 'places shots' either. He's more than capable of smacking them in with whatever technique he chooses, no reason to limit him.

Places shots is just a technique he can use, not the only one he will try to use. Giving him this PPM just increases the type of shots he can use, not limit.

I would not use move into channels. Simply have that be part of your tactic for his position, that PPM just overrides what your tactic instructs. Same with Beat offsides trap, it just over runs his 'runs from deep' slider.

Do not use rounds keeper, he is not fast enough.

I would use places shots. Try and have someone with PPM of arrives late to area and tries tricks mentor him to get him those 2 PPM. Plays one-two passes is good. First time shots is near the end if his first touch goes up to 16.

Play him as a DLF with some forward runs.

[Äktsjon Männ]

Places shots is just a technique he can use, not the only one he will try to use. Giving him this PPM just increases the type of shots he can use, not limit.

All players can place shots. Adding a PPM doesn't increase his technical ability to successfully do this, it will only make this his preferred option. Players who are highly technical and make the right decision most of the time (decisions 15) will not benefit anything from having this PPM. It's more useful for someone with high finishing but lower technical ability and mental attributes (decisions, composure, etc).

[tektonik]

All players can place shots. Adding a PPM doesn't increase his technical ability to successfully do this, it will only make this his preferred option. Players who are highly technical and make the right decision most of the time (decisions 15) will not benefit anything from having this PPM. It's more useful for someone with high finishing but lower technical ability and mental attributes (decisions, composure, etc).

You take the same striker with 15+ Comp, Finishing, Technique and add that PPM to him it will increase his goals scored, period.

That type of shots is very difficult to save, same with shots with power. If they are on target they will score far more likely than just a normal shot. If your guy has the required attrib for one of those PPm, no reason not to take it.

[Äktsjon Männ]

You take the same striker with 15+ Comp, Finishing, Technique and add that PPM to him it will increase his goals scored, period.

Disagree. You'll have to prove it with some real statistical data first.

The fact is, a PPM does not alter a player's technical ability. A PPM is nothing but a tendency. A player with good decisions will know when to place a shot and when to hit it with power. A player with that PPM is more likely to try and place it when a powerful shot (or a chip, or rounding the keeper, etc) is the better option.

[ri916]

Rounds the keeper is good for a guy with high pace/acc but low finishing/composure, so not your guy . Places shots is a must with his stats.

[Linkoping]

Disagree. You'll have to prove it with some real statistical data first.

The fact is, a PPM does not alter a player's technical ability. A PPM is nothing but a tendency. A player with good decisions will know when to place a shot and when to hit it with power. A player with that PPM is more likely to try and place it when a powerful shot (or a chip, or rounding the keeper, etc) is the better option.

Your argument says that you should train players with poor composure or technique to Place Shots so it becomes their preferred move. Most of the time though it seems like if you try and train this PPM on players with poor technique and compose then the coach will say they don't think the player is capable of learning the PPM.

Also this guide states that to learn the PPM they player should have great tecnhnique, composure, and finishing:
http://www.guidetofootballmanager.co...s#places-shots

Which argues against what you're saying.

[Äktsjon Männ]

Your argument says that you should train players with poor composure or technique to Place Shots so it becomes their preferred move. Most of the time though it seems like if you try and train this PPM on players with poor technique and compose then the coach will say they don't think the player is capable of learning the PPM.

Yeah well, what this tells you is that if they have poor technique and composure they are less likely to be able to learn it. But they would benefit from it more if they did.

I don't mean that absolutely no player with good finishing and supporting attributes will be better with that PPM. I just don't see how this guy in that screenshot would benefit from preferring to place shots because he should be able to do the other types of finishes well and is smart enough to know when to do what. If I had to choose I would even pick 'shoots with power' before it. But personally, for the smartest and most technically accomplished players, I'd prefer it if they had neither.

[Arisilan]

I agree with Äktsjon Männ. I have amazing striker in my team. His stats were good for placing shots. But after learning this PPM, his results became worse. He doesn't score so much and misses some really easy chances. Just because he tries to make perfect shot, instead of hitting the ball.

I'm seriously considering unlearning this PPM again to see if it makes any difference.

[achilles-the-victorious]

PPMs are all good and well, but they are not strictly necessary. Just like I prefer players with determination above 16, and good decisions and anticipation at a young age, but that doesn't mean I won't make exceptions.

So as far as PPMs go, I know they can improve a player (a winger with 'runs with ball down left/right' for e.g.) but I also know they can destroy a player. I had a striker with good dribbling and pace, not the greatest anticipation, passing, decisions, but a good, pacy striker nonetheless. Well, he came through my youth academy, and already had 'Shoots from distance' as a PPM! I was so excited at his prospects that I didn't pay too much attention to the PPM. Tried to get him to unlearn it (twice, even, I think) but was unsuccessful. Had to sell him because he would take shots from distance instead of running at goal, or continuing the build up!

My best poacher ever, though, I don't think he had more than the two PPMs, 'move into channels' and 'tries to beat offside trap'!

[mixmkz]

Depends on how he receives the ball also, my lone striker who is similar to yours (tall, strong, slow, can dribble, and technical) tend to always receive the ball inside the box in front of the goal. I teach him to blast the ball and the keeper has no chance.... unless he blast it 60 degrees sideways and miss... which happens sometimes and makes me *facepalm*

[tajj 7]

High Tecnique, Composure and Finishing is good for 'shoots with power'.

PPMs just adjust how a player plays. Maybe go have a look at a real life player that you want him to play similar to and have a look at his PPMs, for example I have a trequarista striker who I'm developing to play up front on his own but link the play and run from deep so I've copied some of Messi's PPMs like 'plays one two' 'runs with ball often' 'comes deep to get the ball' 'tries killer balls often' Exactly how I want my player to play, i want him to drop deep to get the ball, thread passes through to my other attackers, run at the defence and play quick one-twos.

[Äktsjon Männ]

I agree with Äktsjon Männ. I have amazing striker in my team. His stats were good for placing shots. But after learning this PPM, his results became worse. He doesn't score so much and misses some really easy chances. Just because he tries to make perfect shot, instead of hitting the ball.

I'm seriously considering unlearning this PPM again to see if it makes any difference.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking pretty much.

I think the popularity of the 'places shots' PPM is also somewhat of a relic from older ME versions where pacy strikers would be clear through on goal several times in every match. When one on one with the keeper, placing a shot is probably statistically the most effective technique. There's nowhere near as many chances of this kind in FM13 so variety in technique is more important, especially as the guy in the OP isn't much of a speed demon either.

[CityAndColour]

With that finishing attribute, shoots with power would be my first choice.

[sjm]

Maybe I've been doing this wrong or maybe the new version is different, but I used "places shots" for players whose technique is good; "shoots with power" for players whose strength is high.

The rationale behind it being that placing a shot requires technique to do so (it's about hitting the ball cleanly) whereas when shooting with power, you're hoping that the player gets enough power behind the shot that it goes in, even if the keeper gets a hand to it. Blasting a ball doesn't require technique, only power, so it makes little sense to me to train it if you've got high technique or low strength. You just hope he gets it on target and the power will carry the ball into the net. After all the PPM simply dictates what a player tries to do; it doesn't mean they're any good at it. I mean, you can ask a player with 5 technique, dribbling, balance, agility etc. to learn to run with ball often. It doesn't make him any good at it, it just means he tries it all the time.

So really, I'd say: low technique, high strength = "shoots with power" and high technique = "places shots". It works great for me, albeit on FM11. As said above, "places shots" is particularly good when one-on-one with the keeper and seems to help offset poorer finishing on my midfielder/striker who's increased his goal haul since learning it. He gets into a lot of one-on-ones due to his pace and then just slots it past the keeper. I personally wouldn't use either on this guy; he should be able to score a lot using a variety of techniques, and with decent decisions he should also choose the right option more often than not.

[Äktsjon Männ]

But you need to properly wrap your foot around the ball to shoot accurately with power. Which needs better technique, sidefooting it into the corner or blasting a right rocket into the corner of the net?

Basically, can a player with poor technique do this?

[sjm]

Yeah but "shoots with power" isn't "put it in the corner" - that's "places shots"; hence why I'd say it needs more technique.

Anyone with strength can blast a ball, you're just hoping it's on target (=finishing).

Or put it this way - when shooting with power, you can blast the ball at the middle of the goal and still score because the power takes the ball over the line even if the keeper gets a hand to it.

Of course, it helps if you can do both

[Äktsjon Männ]

Yeah but "shoots with power" isn't "put it in the corner" - that's "places shots"; hence why I'd say it needs more technique.

Surely both aim to do the same? Placing a shot in FM in my experience means them slotting it in low. Shoots with power, again in my experience, makes players with poor technique constantly blast the ball out of the stadium, the stronger they are the further

[soccer.joel]

Great player

[sjm]

I just added the following to my post: "when shooting with power, you can blast the ball at the middle of the goal and still score because the power takes the ball over the line even if the keeper gets a hand to it." At least IRL.

I'd agree that some form of technique is a must for any striker. But you definitely want strength to blast the ball, or it won't work.


There was a guy at school who'd "shoot with power"; as you say, 9 times out of 10 it would fly miles off target. But when it was on target (anywhere, not just the corner) it would fly in. Even if he hit the middle of the goal. IME that's what happens in FM too; you get the ball blasted in with power (and get the commentary line to go with it) and half the time he's hit the keeper or the ball's gone in before the keeper can react. He's not aimed for the corner, just for the goal.

[CityAndColour]

From my experience of FM13, shoots with power + high finishing is much more lethal than places shots + high finishing.

[Äktsjon Männ]

I just added the following to my post: "when shooting with power, you can blast the ball at the middle of the goal and still score because the power takes the ball over the line even if the keeper gets a hand to it." At least IRL.

I'd agree that some form of technique is a must for any striker. But you definitely want strength to blast the ball, or it won't work.


There was a guy at school who'd "shoot with power"; as you say, 9 times out of 10 it would fly miles off target. But when it was on target (anywhere, not just the corner) it would fly in. Even if he hit the middle of the goal. IME that's what happens in FM too; you get the ball blasted in with power (and get the commentary line to go with it) and half the time he's hit the keeper or the ball's gone in before the keeper can react. He's not aimed for the corner, just for the goal.

Haha, we had a guy like that, one of my best mates. He'd cut off some treetops with his shots about ten times each game but when it actually hit the target it would drill a hole in the net and end up 100 yards away

But I'm still not sure how this would make a professional player more prolific though. Unless the guy can find opportunities to shoot 20 times every match surely it's counter productive?

[tajj 7]

'Shoots with power' is a more difficult technique to pull off regularly thus it needs a higher technique.

Don't think stregnth has anything to do with it, a small weak player can still smash a ball because like I said it's about technique.

[eple]

High flair, strength, balance, finishing, composure and technique + shoot with power on a player that often finds himself in the box is very effective, because it will mean most of his shots are on target and unstoppable. For a striker in a more deep role, then perhaps it would be a liability.

I also have a feeling that 'Places shots' sometimes leads to goal droughts that never seem to end. If they first miss one golden chances then they are bound to not score for then next 11 hours

[sjm]

It's up to you to make sure he doesn't shoot when he's not going to get it on target - i.e. in my mate's case he liked to blast it from 30 yards when he'd have been better off aiming rather than just blasting it. The comment about it being most effective in the box is definitely true. Just get it on somewhere on target...

[eple]

Can you improve the 'Shoots from distance' PPM, btw? I have two midfielders that are not willing to unlearn this, and I have been thinking 'Places shots' might actually help with this? At least when they do try shooting (like 9 times pr game) it would be on - or close too - the target.

[sjm]

Don't think stregnth has anything to do with it, a small weak player can still smash a ball because like I said it's about technique.

Have you ever seen Roberto Carlos' thighs?

[eple]

[Erith22]

I almost never use the scout tools, and definitely never use them to find players, but I was curious on this guy after I got him so I fired up FM scout and he has 198 PA.

Funny thing was, before I knew all that, I had an offer in for him from his Argentinian club for 16M euros (I had actually used pressure to get his club to list him), but I chickened out at the last minute (appeal for work permit) because I had several other good young strikers at my club and I didn't want to have a logjam.

Then at the window I saw his price had been lowered to 11M and I figured 'what the heck'

After the debate here I'm not sure what to do with his PPMs. I have 'move into channels' and 'plays one-twos'. Might do 'run with ball through middle'.

[Erith22]

Just an update on this guy. He currently has 'Runs with ball through centre', 'moves into channels' and 'plays one-twos'.

He's played 5 seasons with me and has been very good, but not world beating, his first 4 seasons he had 102 league matches and 75 goals, averaging around a 7.5 rating. He suffered a number of injuries which limited his playing time, and he had a few long, frustrating goalless streaks.

So far in season 5 I think he's just about maxed out his potential. In his first 3 matches he's scored 10 goals!

If you want to see how his ratings have turned out let me know I'll post a screenie

[sjm]

Seeing as this topic got bumped, just a quick note on the shoots with power - my striker scored what to me would be a typical example of what this means in terms of the ME. It's also a typical example of how to me this isn't about technique, but purely power and finishing. I could upload a video, but I don't think there's much point really.

A through ball is played into the box and my big, bulky, Brazilian striker runs onto the ball, takes one touch, and then from about 6 yards out belts the ball into the net with as much power as he can muster. The shot is right next to the keeper's outstretched arm, but the shot is hit with so much speed and power that the keeper has no time to react and can only turn round and see the ball in the net. There's then the appropriate commentary line about how that's a typical strike (i.e. the PPM came into play). At least in my case, that's how I'm expecting him to score with the PPM; I should however note that he was actually trained in the PPM by an AI manager.

He didn't aim for the corner or try anything fancy with the shot; he just got the shot on target (i.e. hit the goal from 6 yards out) and left the keeper with no chance because of the pace of the ball which gave the keeper no time to react. There was no real "skill" involved in it, all that mattered was that he fired it as hard as he could and that he hit the target. Even though the keeper was half a yard away from where the ball flew past him and had his hand close to the ball, he still had no chance to save it.