These forums

[Jimbokav1971]

Originally posted by GoGa70:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The big one at the moment is "My defenders keep scoring own foals from 40 yards out! The game is cheating me!" I've stopped telling people that it's their tactics. That doesn't mean that it isn't their tactics because it damn well is! That doesn't make them a loser, it makes them stubborn and unyielding. If they don't want our opinions on why it is happening then they shouldn't ask. They do, so we tell them, but they don't like what they hear, so.......

Personally I don't believe scoring 40 yards own-goals should be tactics. The problem with the game is lack of transparency - unless you have serious time on your hands you can't figure out exactly what a certain combination of settings leads to. Hence the frustration. And ****ed posters. Make tactical module simpler - or make a good tutorial along the lines of you pick short passing/ high time wasting the defenders will start passing back to the GK and score own goals. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You haven't got serious time on your hands so I will make it quick and easy.

Increase the attacking mentality slider for both you full-backs oast half way and you should reduce this a lot. Allow them more creative freedom and you will reduce it further still. Tell them to hit long balls and you will diminsh it almost completely when done in comjunction with the other two.

Now that wasn't too hard was it?

[thefootman]

A lot of fair points here.As I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread I've dropped a little sarcasm in from time
to time without intending any real malice.To an extent this can be remedied with the winking smiley icon (to show
you're only joking) but it can easily be forgotten when posting.

Other than an immediate apology (if any unintended offence has been given),there's no going back once you've pressed
the Post Now button.And unless you hang around you often don't see the fallout from it all until you go back the next day.

We don't want to kill off the humour element within the forums (although sarcasm is admittedly the lowest form of wit).

It can easily be misunderstood and could turn a thread into a battleground of tit for tat abuse.But sometimes people
just don't think before they post (and,on occasions,I include myself among them).

Personally,I am taking this thread very seriously as I do not want to be associated with dumbing down the very forums
that I enjoy (for the most part) reading and occasionally contributing to.

Sadly there will always be people who come on with the intention of sparking a response and then get banned immediately.
I'm convinced some of them know exactly what they are doing and the consequences that will result.And they no doubt find
it extremely funny.

It isn't.

The fact that this thread was started at all is an indication of the concern over forum behaviour so let's hope most of
the members (and prospective members) read it and learn from it.

[GoGa70]

Now that wasn't too hard was it?

no that was simple and informative (if it only worked )

But I'm mostly referring to people who say nothing but it's your tactics. And there are alot of them here.

[GoGa70]

this is a thread about member behaviour on the forums mate.

Yes, I'm aware of that but 'It's your tactics' response is quite common and oftentimes silly because alot of people use it without any intention of helping.

[Dayle Wood]

Originally posted by GoGa70:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">this is a thread about member behaviour on the forums mate.

Yes, I'm aware of that but 'It's your tactics' response is quite common and oftentimes silly because alot of people use it without any intention of helping. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Well thats a tough one I suppose. Some people start threads that are thinly veiled whinging threads about some great conspirousy within the game. These self-pitying people want to blame anything but themselves and while just saying 'it's your tactics' isn't very helpful, it is in fact the actual answer!

Personally I don't just say that - I try and help. But these sort of threads are like fuel for the people who become abusive.

[Jimbokav1971]

Originally posted by GoGa70:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Now that wasn't too hard was it?

no that was simple and informative (if it only worked )

But I'm mostly referring to people who say nothing but it's your tactics. And there are alot of them here. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

GoGa. I am one of those. If they ask me to explain I'm only too willing to go into detail. Unfortunately people don't want to do that, EVER.

I used to go into great detail in each post and I found that I was being ignored and they were just carrying on the rant regardless.

Now I tell them it's their tactics and if they ask me to go into more detail I do.

I have conceded 2 goals from back-passes in the last 5(ish) seasons.

[thomit]

Honestly, Miles and the rest; I don't think the standard in these forums are any worse than other forums of the same kind.
Granted, there are quite a few posts that are pointless and/or abusive - that's where a sufficiently sized mod squad comes into play, I think. Really - I find quite a few people in general to be pointless and/or abusive, so no wonder it will reflect in the forums.

Also, taking the demographic of this game's users into account; Can we really expect 10 - 12 year olds to be concise, articulate and argumentative? Always? And use proper english? Even the mods, who I expect are a bit older, are not always that good at it.

Yes, the forums are in need of a cleaning up - but I can't really see any other way than expanding the mod squad. And the mods should ALWAYS give the reasons why they are mod'ing something, so that the culprits are educated.

The best way to deal with pointless people is to ignore them - simply don't answer their postings (exceptions the mods, of course).

[rashidi1]

Originally posted by Ackter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jimbokav1971:
I was gonna post a joke that it was Ackter after all the abuse he has received over the last year or so, but as that is in poor taste I won't .

In the words of Ted - "Boing flip".

Do you honestly think any abuse I've received actually effects me? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ackter lives with a plate of armour

[rashidi1]

Originally posted by GoGa70:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The big one at the moment is "My defenders keep scoring own foals from 40 yards out! The game is cheating me!" I've stopped telling people that it's their tactics. That doesn't mean that it isn't their tactics because it damn well is! That doesn't make them a loser, it makes them stubborn and unyielding. If they don't want our opinions on why it is happening then they shouldn't ask. They do, so we tell them, but they don't like what they hear, so.......

Personally I don't believe scoring 40 yards own-goals should be tactics. The problem with the game is lack of transparency - unless you have serious time on your hands you can't figure out exactly what a certain combination of settings leads to. Hence the frustration. And ****ed posters. Make tactical module simpler - or make a good tutorial along the lines of you pick short passing/ high time wasting the defenders will start passing back to the GK and score own goals. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We're not discussing tactics here. There's another forum for that.

[rashidi1]

Originally posted by thefootman:


We don't want to kill off the humour element within the forums (although sarcasm is admittedly the lowest form of wit).

I wholeheartedly agree, we had some real personalities and still do. We need to ensure that we maintain that rich diversity and not encumber it with too rigid a code. Having said that we need to ensure that good behavior is encouraged and bad one discouraged. A line then needs to be drawn between those who make genuine mistakes and those who continually flout the rules. For those that do the latter...post mod them or ban them. Its a lot of work to do, perhaps we need to tougher before we can relax

[FrazT]

Just had a thought to try and ensure that all new threads are reasonable-

After you click on New/Discussion and before you type in your thread title, what about a couple of questions which require a yes/no answer before the thread is allowed? No answers, no thread.

For example:
If you are asking a question, have you searched to see if it has been asked before?
Is your thread relevant to the General Questions Forum?
Is your thread relevant to the current FM game?

There may be other relevant questions but these are for example only. This will not stop all nonsense getting through but will at least make posters aware that the quality of their threrad is thought about before they post it.

[Dayle Wood]

super idea - if they can do it.

[rashidi1]

Originally posted by FrazT:
Just had a thought to try and ensure that all new threads are reasonable-

After you click on New/Discussion and before you type in your thread title, what about a couple of questions which require a yes/no answer before the thread is allowed? No answers, no thread.

For example:
If you are asking a question, have you searched to see if it has been asked before?
Is your thread relevant to the General Questions Forum?
Is your thread relevant to the current FM game?

There may be other relevant questions but these are for example only. This will not stop all nonsense getting through but will at least make posters aware that the quality of their threrad is thought about before they post it.

I dunno, don't think its possible. Kris should know more. Having said that, are we then dumbing the forums down too much? People will get around that quite easily with the quickposts.

At the end of the day, people still need to learn the fineprint. Is behaviour on the forums any different from behaviour at home or at work. The problem here is that we have a group of people who feel enpowered behind a computer screen, and its this group that needs to be sorted out.

The forum works well, in fact the bad stuff if you want to call it that, really transpired after FM06. I have a motto: Anything can be done if you put your mind to it, we only need to ask ourselves whether we want to pay the price.

[FrazT]

rashidi1- I am not aware of whether this is possible or not and off course it will not stop all silliness BUT it is a bit like having a burglar alarm on the outside of your house. This will not stop a professional thief who has targetted your house because he will get in one way or the other. It will , however, stop the casusl thief who is just passing who will then go somewhere else.

Education of all posters whether it be newbies or old hands is what is required along with more constant and perhaps more disciplined moderating. You and Cleon make the Tactics Forum a place where only sensible discussions are around because you are, by neccessity, fairly ruthless and no-one who uses the forum regularly objects to that- the idiots will come in once, get a shock and then leave unless they are prepared to abide by the rules. This is what needs to happen in GQ

[rashidi1]

Originally posted by FrazT:
rashidi1- I am not aware of whether this is possible or not and off course it will not stop all silliness BUT it is a bit like having a burglar alarm on the outside of your house. This will not stop a professional thief who has targetted your house because he will get in one way or the other. It will , however, stop the casusl thief who is just passing who will then go somewhere else.

Education of all posters whether it be newbies or old hands is what is required along with more constant and perhaps more disciplined moderating. You and Cleon make the Tactics Forum a place where only sensible discussions are around because you are, by neccessity, fairly ruthless and no-one who uses the forum regularly objects to that- the idiots will come in once, get a shock and then leave unless they are prepared to abide by the rules. This is what needs to happen in GQ

I'd agree but once again we need to use good judgement. Many of these posters don't even use english as a first language, others live in Ireland where Internet connectivity isn't that great. What need is a) greater understanding from all users and b) perhaps even a probation period for users who fail to walk the walk.

[rashidi1]

meant to say "toe the line" how "walk the walk" came about I dunno....

[playmaker]

When I first came onto this forum one of the things I really liked was the continual in depth discussion of the games features and how to improve them. The big threads (Dave C's twenty something page dosier) sparked other users, such as myself to post similar or related ideas. It really felt like the comminity was part of the design process.

Sure, we complained about the same ideas being posted ten times on the same day, but I would actually take that over what we have now.

There are a couple contributory factors, in my opinion.

1. The 'Wishlist' thread. It is a very well intentioned thread, designed to keep some of the aforementioned clutter off the forum. However, new users are arriving on the forum believeing that a one line suggestion with no further debate is the norm, instead of coming into the now virtuallu extinct 'big idea threads' and contributing there.

For my part, I tried really hard around the turn of the year to post lots of in depth ideas, but most fell off the first page within a day with little debate. I also tried to respond to many idea threads myself to keep them going. It was futile.

Now nothing falls off the front page quickly, because even with no response it can take two or three days. Four years ago it could take two or three hours.

2. The demise of The Bootroom. It set the tone and provided fuel for debate and many newcomers will have come through the main website before joining the forum. That said, for my part, the last article I wrote was a mistake and angered a lot of people - a really horrible way to bow out.

If there is any furture for TBR then it needs to concentrate on SI's games and not general football articles - there are plent of sites that do that already.

[Arsenal71]

No one listens, has respect, decipline, and most people want a quick fix and cannot be bothered to try or work things out on their own anymore, its society unfortunatly.

[FrazT]

Originally posted by rashidi1:
meant to say "toe the line" how "walk the walk" came about I dunno....

Personally I blame the Government, society and too much calcium in the school milk!

[kennec]

good idea miles.

i usealy hang around in tavtics section couse its superbly moderated and alot of talk about the game and tactics.i barely read the other sections on the forum.

i loved ehm07 but i am very sad that that part of the forum is totaly dead.

[kennec]

tactics.............

[Super Bladesman]

I'm also in the same position as many of the longer-term members - I used to enjoy coming on here and going out of my way to help someone new to the forums, but now they've become such a negative place that the banter has been lost and replaced with bile.

T&Cs are needed, along with a stonger and more numerous mod squad.

[Chilliconcarnie]

I've onlyt had time to read the first couple of pages but here is my 2 cents:

1) As gav mentioned, the FM forums need designated moderators. I miss Smiley Dan. People like Dave C, gavnoble and dafuge would make excellent candidates, especially Dave C. Before I took a sabbatical from the game (too much WoW...), I was in the mind where it would not surprise me if Dave ended up a full time employee of SI :P But obviously any choices would have to be seriously considered. Has to be at least 2 or 3 with one from the states so that more time zones are covered.

2) Some kind of brief FAQ on forum sign up. Something that coudl fit easily without having to scroll to see the rest of the FAQ, summerising something like "Please make contructive posts" "Any info will be posted up in the foums clear for you to see" etc.
Then maybe a stickied thread at the top called "Demo, Release Dates and other useful information." Which will be a locked thread containing updates about the current games out, where to get demo's and patches. Then with something at the end with information about the next game even if it is "Details on FM2010 will be released when they are ready. Any forthcoming demo's and game release dates will be announced AS SOON AS THEY ARE AVAILABLE" or maybe in bold instead of caps... or something.

3) I like the karma idea but maybe it will not quite fit the structure of the forum... Can such a thing be applied to only a set collection of forums within the main board? I am just thinking for those who participate in holiday/sigh ups and stories.

[Arsenal71]

Originally posted by Super Bladesman:
I'm also in the same position as many of the longer-term members - I used to enjoy coming on here and going out of my way to help someone new to the forums, but now they've become such a negative place that the banter has been lost and replaced with bile.

T&Cs are needed, along with a stonger and more numerous mod squad.

I condure, a more proactive approach in terms of mod numbers is needed.

[Ter]

Maybe this could work on the basis of a specific invite from SI to those with the highest Kudos to a specialist thread to discuss an aspect of FM that the team are currently working on (and possibly have reached a sticking point with). There are benefits for both sides here. These members gain from having a direct opportunity to influemce (an albeit small) part of the game development process and SI gain from being able to get specific fanbase input from trusted individuals, rather than having to wade through pages on the off-chance they might find something constructive.

We've done this in the past and will no doubt do it again in the future.

[gavnoble]

The one thing I would hope is that whatever SI do decide with regards to this forum that they have some of the solutions in place before FM 2008 is released, as this is by far the busiest time of the year and also the time when things need the most moderating due to the multiple 'What time is the patch out?' threads that are posted etc. It's also when the most fights seem to break out so having a moderating team onboard to kick off FM 2008 I think should be a priority in order to nip things in the bud so to speak.

[rashidi1]

Originally posted by gavnoble:
The one thing I would hope is that whatever SI do decide with regards to this forum that they have some of the solutions in place before FM 2008 is released, as this is by far the busiest time of the year and also the time when things need the most moderating due to the multiple 'What time is the patch out?' threads that are posted etc. It's also when the most fights seem to break out so having a moderating team onboard to kick off FM 2008 I think should be a priority in order to nip things in the bud so to speak.

Between the moderators there's a kind of unspoken rule where we try and step in as much as we can to help out. Just so happens this also coincides with financial year end budgets for most of us as well. Its a busy time. I'm fairly certain the mods will make themselves available. There's usually a mod around on the forums most times, but you're right upon release the load on the forums will become heavy and this will require more vigilance.

Despite the discussions happening here there are still pointless threads being opened.

[Jimbokav1971]

Despite the discussions happening here there are still pointless threads being opened.

You can't really be surprised.

To be honest, I'm surprised by how much of an impact the thread has had already, (or maybe I'm just imagining it).

[Ter]

One thing that I don't understand is users reporting posts in closed threads. Surely they must realise that the topic has been closed therefore a moderator has seen it and dealt with it as they see fit.

It just wastes our time completely having to deal with the report after we've already dealt with something.

[Jimbokav1971]

Originally posted by Ter:
One thing that I don't understand is users reporting posts in closed threads. Surely they must realise that the topic has been closed therefore a moderator has seen it and dealt with it as they see fit.

It just wastes our time completely having to deal with the report after we've already dealt with something.

Maybe the reporter assumed you had missed what they reported because despite flagrant abuse of the rules, again no card was issued, just thread closed.

I know that's what I think.

[rashidi1]

I think awareness is good.

Furthermore if people become aware that good behaviour has its rewards then people will incline towards behaving themselves. At the end of the day the human soul is driven by greed. You can say whatever you want, the moment a person finds out that a certain behavior has rewards he will change.

The challenge has always been identifying these rewards.

So far there have been a few, I think more are needed including an exclusive forum where people are invited in for discussions with SI for game development. A venue where good ideas are thrashed out and where people feel they have contributed towards the development of the game. Its a win-win situation for both parties.

This forum cannot be isolated to people with high karma. People need to earn the right to post there, and that should come from a monthly awards system for good behavior.

There are already some notably good posters here who do their best to help..you don't have to look far..FrazT, Asmodeus, wwwfan, Amaroq, Dave C, Ackter...just to name a few...there used to be a heck of a lot more but everyone is wearing a helmet now and keeping low.

[rashidi1]

Originally posted by Ter:
One thing that I don't understand is users reporting posts in closed threads. Surely they must realise that the topic has been closed therefore a moderator has seen it and dealt with it as they see fit.

It just wastes our time completely having to deal with the report after we've already dealt with something.

Sometimes the emails we get for content alerts can be very petty as well.

[chopper99]

Glad to see this is being raised as a serious issue. I'm another person who, when I started on the forums, frequently visited GQ and there were some good threads going on in there.

I now stay in the tactics forum mostly. And this has a lot to do with the modding in there I think. I don't know if it's just because people get away with less or what, but there just seems to be less pontless posting in there.

Although even in there lately you've got a couple of people whose only aim is to hijack perfectly good threads and turn them into'this game cheats threads'. It's these people that annoy me lately because no matter how many different ways people try to help them, and how many different ways we try to explain that other people manage to have realistic success on this game, they simply cannot accept the possibility that maybe they are just doing something wrong. And it's things like this that gets people annoyed. Everyone's all for having constructive debates about the shortcomings of the game, and everyone will have areas of the game they think can be improved but some people just seem to think that saying 'look at all these shots I had without scoring, the game cheats I don't care what you say' is the basis for a constructive debate. So for anyone who says they're sick of hearing 'it's your tactics' then I say that this response has only come about from people who normally try to help becoming sick of certain members not wanting to hear any advice, they just want everyone to agree that the game cheats and they're right and that's that. It's this that has you reaching for the *bangs head against wall* smiley.

Now, as for GQ. I don't actually think there are too many harsh replies to newer members posting a question, even if it's been asked a thousand times before (there are a small number of people who do think that attacking a newer member for this is acceptable however, and they should be reprimanded for unwarrented criticism). I personally think it's all based on the tone of the poster and their reply to being asked to not post in text speak or caps, or to post in the correct forum. Many newer members of GQ these days seem to have a kind of 'why should I' attitude. There are some who realise they've made a small error and go onto follow the rules and these members are always treated well by the more senior forum members.
In my opinion, for the most part, it's generally only people who bring it on themselves who come in for any kind of unfriendly treatment, but perhaps even this should be just left to the mods.

I think it just frustrates people who have followed the rules and enjoyed taking part in this forum when people come on, are determined to either not read the rules or not bother following them, and then just get away with it and decrease everyones enjoyment.

Personally I feel the rules that are currently in place are fine, they just need enforcing a whole lot more. Anyone who's been asked by a moderator to read the rules and then continues to ignore them should be harshly dealt with.

I also think the stickies, and the fact that you should read them before posting, should be made much more obvious somehow. I also think the search function should be made more obvious and improved.

[Frankie 7]

The challenge forum seemed like a good idea at the time, but what it has done is take a small nucleus of posters away from

I for one don't think Kudos would work here. it would only cause unrest between members. Some members might feel that they are getting alienated just because no one bothered rating them. Not everyone will bother to rate other members. This is a hard one to figure out and most likely this could be discussed until the end of time and still the same answers will come out by each person.
The feeling it seems after reading the posts here is that more staff is needed for these forums. The guys just now are under more pressure because of all these stupid bullying tactics by others and they need help. Simple as that really.

[rashidi1]

Thought I'd add in the smiley for you....I agree on the search function and the fact that it could be improved further.

[rashidi1]

Here's an idea..instead of kudos..the moment someone fails respect the forum rules, we issue a yellow card.

The fact that you have a yellow card will deny you access rights to certain forums, and these could be the exclusive forums.

Judicious use of warnings will have to be followed and in this case, we don't need to use kudos cos in all fairness, its hard to rate people all the time.

We need to be strict.

[chopper99]

Originally posted by rashidi1:
Thought I'd add in the smiley for you....I agree on the search function and the fact that it could be improved further.

Cheers, that's the one.

[chopper99]

Originally posted by rashidi1:
Here's an idea..instead of kudos..the moment someone fails respect the forum rules, we issue a yellow card.

The fact that you have a yellow card will deny you access rights to certain forums, and these could be the exclusive forums.

Judicious use of warnings will have to be followed and in this case, we don't need to use kudos cos in all fairness, its hard to rate people all the time.

We need to be strict.

And I agree with this totally. Strictness is they way to go, not more understanding for people who can't be bothered to read and follow what is a pretty basic set of rules.

That doesn't mean I condone people jumping on the backs of someone as soon as they've posted, but I can understand how it can be frustrating when the same people continue to post pointless things and/or break rules.

[Jimbokav1971]

Has the World gone mad?

What you are suggesting is rewarding people for normal behaviour.

Has it really gone that far that you feel incapable of moderating the forum without a carrot dangling on a stick to entice people to behave themselves.

1. Decide what the rules are going to be and set them out clearly for all to see.

2. If someone breaks a small rule, issue them with a warning. If they break it again, ban them forever.

3. If someone breaks a serious rule then that's it, ban them there and then forever.

It's this nicey nicey approach where threads get closed and no action taken, that has left the forum in the carp state that it's currently in. I think the problem is that SI don't want to ban people because they are their target audiance, and alienating potential customers is just plain stupid. Well SI need to decide what they want to do and then do it.

I've lost count of the number of times in this thread where people have said that the only thing that needs to be done in here is enforce the existing rules.

The nicey nicey approach will not work.

[rashidi1]

I'm not recommending a nicey nicey approach, just an approach where there's a price to be paid for not following the forum rules, where a yellow card leads to suspension from entering some forums.

[Jimbokav1971]

I didn't mean "you" as in "you Rashidi". I meant everyone. Sorry.

Look, I have linked already to threads on the same subject started at about this time last year.

Rashidi, there is already a price to pay for not following the rules. The ONLY problem is that those rules are enforced all too infrequently. It's not the penalty for breaking the rules that needs to be changed, it's whether or not the penalty is enforced in the first place.

[medievalist]

I think Jimbo's analysis is essentially correct. If you're wondering why posters seem to be avoiding GQ or are making impatient replies it is because very often GQ is *not* an interesting series of discussions about the game, it is a wall of nonsense.

I realize people have the right to ask when the demo is out, but when they ask immediately after the question was answered, to me that is not reasonable, that is sheer laziness. It's a nice idea to think 'Oh, let them post their question' but if you then wonder why GQ is either avoided or typified by increasingly impatient posting then to me the answer is clear. It will only be a good forum if you keep the nonsense out.

Creating a more complex ban system will not do anything. What is needed is a system of clear rules that are uniformly enforced. That can (and should) include backseat moderating. But when someone starts the eleventy-hundredth new thread about when the game is out, it should be locked with a comment from a moderator that the answer is in the sticky threads.

Maybe that means more moderators are needed to keep up with the forum. If the rules don't seem to be enforced, or are unevenly enforced, then people will take things into their own hands which is what you want to avoid.

The other side of that is that a forum with a bad signal/noise ratio will turn people off. The solution here is efficient moderating too.

God, what a long post. I apologize.

[rashidi1]

Apologies aren't needed.

I'm all in favour of being more strict. I try to temper that with good sense, and if we want this forum to return to its glory days I for one tend to agree...we need to get more strict.

[rashidi1]

I think that we should extend the use of banning for bad behavior. If someone continually flouts the rules and then proceeds to use foul language. Let's send him on its way.

[Hitesh]

Jsut seen this thread and read some of the comments but here is what I think on the whole matter and sorry if some are repeated.

I used to post on these forums quite a while back and really enjoyed it but as Miles has said, its gotten a nasty. I think the best things to do is give warnings out to people who make these sly, nasty and irrelevant comments. Have a set procedure to handle these comments and with the aid of more mods, send emails to the offenders explaining what they have done wrong and what the rules are.

Have something like >
First time = Warning with reminder about rules
Second time = Yellow Card - Same as above and restriction on posting for 24 hours/posting in some forums
Third time = Red card - Ban

Simple as. People should realise after the first warning, espcially if they are given a description of where they have gone wrong.

Also, for the mods, (not sure if this exists) but they have an area where they can see more details about warnings - ie: when a mod warns a person, they add it to a list and provide a description as to why they were warned. This means that when a mod is looking to warn the same person again for a different offense, they can check what the last warning is for.

This then brings me onto the length of warning. So all the users know, there needs to be some kind of set length for a yellow card. I think that the first warning should last 3-6 months depending on severity. They 6-year for a yellow card..maybe longer depending on the offense.

When i first joined the forums, there were SI staff and "respected" mods on some forums and it gave more of a controlled forum and a much better place.

I think people should use common sense and give other users respect and those who dont, get punished accordingly.

[Glyn]

Originally posted by Hitesh:
Also, for the mods, (not sure if this exists) but they have an area where they can see more details about warnings - ie: when a mod warns a person, they add it to a list and provide a description as to why they were warned. This means that when a mod is looking to warn the same person again for a different offense, they can check what the last warning is for.

We can place notes in every user's account details. When someone is warned/carded/banned etc. a note is made there and can be seen anytime that user's account is accesed by a mod.

[Glyn]

Originally posted by rashidi1:
I think that we should extend the use of banning for bad behavior. If someone continually flouts the rules and then proceeds to use foul language. Let's send him on its way.

Having said that, we have been asked by SI to consider banning someone the last resort - ie if there is hope that a user can be educated to be a good user, give them the opportunity. So it's a case of finding the correct balance. However, with piracy and obvious trolling/winding-up/troublemaking users they ain't worth the effort in my view.

[Jimbokav1971]

we have been asked by SI to consider banning someone the last resort

And herein lies the problem.

Either this is a community based on-line forum or it is an advertising tool for a Company. I know I'm being a bit negative whenI say that, but I knew all along that was the case. It's so obvious from the wording that the SI guys use.

So now at least we have got to the root of the problem.

[BBB]

BBB feels his yellow card was unfair

status - unhappy

[rashidi1]

Originally posted by Glyn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1:
I think that we should extend the use of banning for bad behavior. If someone continually flouts the rules and then proceeds to use foul language. Let's send him on its way.

Having said that, we have been asked by SI to consider banning someone the last resort - ie if there is hope that a user can be educated to be a good user, give them the opportunity. So it's a case of finding the correct balance. However, with piracy and obvious trolling/winding-up/troublemaking users they ain't worth the effort in my view. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can understand that, but in all honesty, we ban people for talking bout piracy but we don't ban others for using sometimes really obscene language. Two standards if you ask me.

[Peacemaker7]

Yes but I can understand why SI wouldn't people being banned left right and centre. Some people should be banned because there is simply no hope for them, but you can usually spot these kinds of people from the off.

Other people may get off to a bad start, and end up being decent posters if they are given a bit of time and patience, not just from the mods but also from the more established users of the forum. It's not just up to moderators to ensure forums run smoothly that just a lazy user base.

People will ask annoying, repetitive questions on here. There is nothing can be done about that, because in general this is the first forum where new, enthusiastic people will flock - before the really clever ones end up in FMS or LLM. Patience is the key.

There is of course a huge difference between a new user who naively asks a question which to them is something new and interesting yet to others has been asked a million times before, and the kind of user who just posts to cause disruption.

[rashidi1]

I'm all in favour for showing patience to people for being repetitive or perhaps even for missing out on reading the forum rules, in all honesty though, I sometimes find it hard to accept abuse and derogatory remarks. There are some who post racist remarks and then abuse other forum members for not sharing their point of view. There has to be a limit somewhere.

Good behavior rewarded, and bad punished. Temperance is the key of course and good sense has to prevail, which is why we have a warning system in place.

[medievalist]

Originally posted by Peacemaker7:Y
People will ask annoying, repetitive questions on here. There is nothing can be done about that, because in general this is the first forum where new, enthusiastic people will flock - before the really clever ones end up in FMS or LLM. Patience is the key.

If that's going to be the accepted state of affairs then the answer to Rashidi's question about why quality posters avoid GQ will be an easy one: because it is filled with nonsense.

If SI doesn't want to take action against lazy new posters - even by just rapidly and consistently locking the threads - and other posters disciplined for their frustrations then GQ will, in my opinion, become empty in a hurry.

I think SI needs to tackle both sides of the issue. They need to cut down on the backseat moderating and hostile posts, but they also need to address the behavior that is causing those posts. Prompt, consistent enforcement of the rules will do that.

[Oz]

Originally posted by Jimbokav1971:
Has the World gone mad?

What you are suggesting is rewarding people for normal behaviour.

Has it really gone that far that you feel incapable of moderating the forum without a carrot dangling on a stick to entice people to behave themselves.

1. Decide what the rules are going to be and set them out clearly for all to see.

2. If someone breaks a small rule, issue them with a warning. If they break it again, ban them forever.

3. If someone breaks a serious rule then that's it, ban them there and then forever.

It's this nicey nicey approach where threads get closed and no action taken, that has left the forum in the carp state that it's currently in. I think the problem is that SI don't want to ban people because they are their target audiance, and alienating potential customers is just plain stupid. Well SI need to decide what they want to do and then do it.

I've lost count of the number of times in this thread where people have said that the only thing that needs to be done in here is enforce the existing rules.

The nicey nicey approach will not work.

you aren't serious, are you? Do ypu want to be the only person on the forum?

If people make a couple of mistakes, and do stupid stuff, so be it. Banning them straight away, or after 1 warning, for something like swearing or posting in the wrong forum is just ridiculous. Give them a chance and maybe they'll learn and will become decent posters.

I think you've gone waaaaay over the top with all this - ignoring 300 people, and wanting people banned so quickly? you need to chill out a little - its only a forum, for goodness sake.

[Hitesh]

Something that has just come to mind which may prevent some pointless posts..is having an up to date FAQ section. Something which could be updated on a regular basis by mods and with submissions by users (verified by mods!)

For example, earlier today someone posted about where they can buy FM! Its common sense that you look on the forums already but some people are lazy so having this FAQ might help. They also have no excuse then! I wouldnt mind updating it on a weekly basis.

[Peacemaker7]

Originally posted by medievalist:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Peacemaker7:Y
People will ask annoying, repetitive questions on here. There is nothing can be done about that, because in general this is the first forum where new, enthusiastic people will flock - before the really clever ones end up in FMS or LLM. Patience is the key.

If that's going to be the accepted state of affairs then the answer to Rashidi's question about why quality posters avoid GQ will be an easy one: because it is filled with nonsense.

If SI doesn't want to take action against lazy new posters - even by just rapidly and consistently locking the threads - and other posters disciplined for their frustrations then GQ will, in my opinion, become empty in a hurry.

I think SI needs to tackle both sides of the issue. They need to cut down on the backseat moderating and hostile posts, but they also need to address the behavior that is causing those posts. Prompt, consistent enforcement of the rules will do that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But the thing is, GQ IS the place for new posters. And new posters WILL ask repetitive questions because - they are new. The onus is actually not on the new poster, the onus is on the established posters to show a level of maturity in their response. What will make the forums become empty is when new users are shouted down and abused for asking a question that to them is new. They'll just leave.

[medievalist]

Originally posted by Peacemaker7:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by medievalist:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Peacemaker7:Y
People will ask annoying, repetitive questions on here. There is nothing can be done about that, because in general this is the first forum where new, enthusiastic people will flock - before the really clever ones end up in FMS or LLM. Patience is the key.

If that's going to be the accepted state of affairs then the answer to Rashidi's question about why quality posters avoid GQ will be an easy one: because it is filled with nonsense.

If SI doesn't want to take action against lazy new posters - even by just rapidly and consistently locking the threads - and other posters disciplined for their frustrations then GQ will, in my opinion, become empty in a hurry.

I think SI needs to tackle both sides of the issue. They need to cut down on the backseat moderating and hostile posts, but they also need to address the behavior that is causing those posts. Prompt, consistent enforcement of the rules will do that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But the thing is, GQ IS the place for new posters. And new posters WILL ask repetitive questions because - they are new. The onus is actually not on the new poster, the onus is on the established posters to show a level of maturity in their response. What will make the forums become empty is when new users are shouted down and abused for asking a question that to them is new. They'll just leave. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I think there is an onus on new posters to 1) learn the rules of the forum they have just learned and 2) make at least a minimal effort (reading the thread they're posting in, looking at FAQs/headers). Not bothering to do that is lazy and shows little regard for the community they're 'excited' about joining.

I agree that cutting down on impatient replies would be a good thing. But Rashidi was also wondering why quality posters do not post in GQ and are off in OTF and other places. If GQ is allowed to be a wasteland of lazy nonsense posts then no, it won't be popular. And then new posters won't get their questions answered because the veteran players will be avoiding GQ like the plague.

[medievalist]

Originally posted by medievalist:
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I think there is an onus on new posters to 1) learn the rules of the forum they have just learned and 2) make at least a minimal effort (reading the thread they're posting in, looking at FAQs/headers). Not bothering to do that is lazy and shows little regard for the community they're 'excited' about joining.

Should be 'just joined' obviously. No edit.

[Jimbokav1971]

Oz. You think I'm going waaaaay over the top wanting to ban people who break the rules, and you suggest that I would be on my own if that was the case.

I've checked your posting history, (or at least attempted to). I went back 10 pages of your history and you haven't made a single post in here. I'm sure you have your finger right on the pulse as far as GQ is concerned.

You advocate giving people a chance much like many others have done. The reason the forum is in this state in the first place is because Mods were instructed to "give people a chance" rather than enforce existing rules.

I can see the direction this is going so I think I will leave you all to it.

Good luck.

[Peacemaker7]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I think there is an onus on new posters to 1) learn the rules of the forum they have just learned and 2) make at least a minimal effort (reading the thread they're posting in, looking at FAQs/headers). Not bothering to do that is lazy and shows little regard for the community they're 'excited' about joining.

I agree that cutting down on impatient replies would be a good thing. But Rashidi was also wondering why quality posters do not post in GQ and are off in OTF and other places. If GQ is allowed to be a wasteland of lazy nonsense posts then no, it won't be popular. And then new posters won't get their questions answered because the veteran players will be avoiding GQ like the plague.

I actually agree with that to an extent. Hence when people come into FMS for example and post something like 'Where's the Continue button' or go into LLM and ask about a player or a tactic they quite rightly get shouted down. The rules on those forums are more specific, implied even in the forum name and description before you enter.

GQ however is the place to ask questions. It's not much fun coming into a forum as a new user, thinking this is the place to ask where the continue button is, only for a million people to swear at you that it's been asked a million times before instead of just telling the guy either where to find an answer of the answer.

Ideally, having an FAQ would be great, but it still won't cut out new people asking old questions, although it will give more established users a chance to say, I refer you to the this part of the FAQ.

[rashidi1]

Having an FAQ is a good thing. It at least gives people somewhere to go first. Ignorance coming from not reading the FAQ cannot be an excuse.

The two strictest sub-forums are LLM and T&TF and the quality of the posts there are high, credit to the posters but that wasn't always the case. It wouldn't have been that way if we didn't have an FAQ and a strictly "policed" forum to protect good threads.

I don't advocate capital punishment as people can be reformed, but we do need to make sure the forums are policed effectively.

I must say this has been the best discussion in GQ in a while

[cms186]

something that could be useful is to introduce a " senior members " group who have no moderating powers, but who are formed out of useful and interesting posters who can:

A: be relied on to provide answers to "newbies" and other people without ripping their throats out

B: be someone who the mods will listen to ( so a "senior member" could be granted access to "the mods room" to discuss anything which needs the attention of a mod )

It would be more useful to have different senior members for different forums ( i.e. Peacemaker would be a good senior member for the FMS forum, but not for the OTF )

[Hitesh]

Originally posted by rashidi1:
Having an FAQ is a good thing. It at least gives people somewhere to go first. Ignorance coming from not reading the FAQ cannot be an excuse.

The two strictest sub-forums are LLM and T&TF and the quality of the posts there are high, credit to the posters but that wasn't always the case. It wouldn't have been that way if we didn't have an FAQ and a strictly "policed" forum to protect good threads.

I don't advocate capital punishment as people can be reformed, but we do need to make sure the forums are policed effectively.

I must say this has been the best discussion in GQ in a while

Agreed! If you give people a chance to be refored then fair play but if they continue to send bad posts then they should be punished otherwise they think they can get away with it. And IMO, an FAQ is one way that can help users avoid getting a warning.

[Peacemaker7]

Originally posted by cms186:
something that could be useful is to introduce a " senior members " group who have no moderating powers, but who are formed out of useful and interesting posters who can:

A: be relied on to provide answers to "newbies" and other people without ripping their throats out

B: be someone who the mods will listen to ( so a "senior member" could be granted access to "the mods room" to discuss anything which needs the attention of a mod )

It would be more useful to have different senior members for different forums ( i.e. Peacemaker would be a good senior member for the FMS forum, but not for the OTF )

Yup thats about that I was thinking cms. If there was a way to allow more senior members a bit of responsibility, and also means giving them a reward if you like for good behaviour.

I can see Jimbo's point, people really shouldn't need to be rewarded for behaving like normal human being, but sadly that isn't the way the world works. Besides, we all need to be appreciated and have some nice awards to our name.

A an FAQ would be good - in fact I thought there already would be one, didn't there used to be? However go into FMO, they have a whopping great header, an FAQ and a million closed threads.

[medievalist]

Originally posted by Peacemaker7:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I think there is an onus on new posters to 1) learn the rules of the forum they have just learned and 2) make at least a minimal effort (reading the thread they're posting in, looking at FAQs/headers). Not bothering to do that is lazy and shows little regard for the community they're 'excited' about joining.

I agree that cutting down on impatient replies would be a good thing. But Rashidi was also wondering why quality posters do not post in GQ and are off in OTF and other places. If GQ is allowed to be a wasteland of lazy nonsense posts then no, it won't be popular. And then new posters won't get their questions answered because the veteran players will be avoiding GQ like the plague.

I actually agree with that to an extent. Hence when people come into FMS for example and post something like 'Where's the Continue button' or go into LLM and ask about a player or a tactic they quite rightly get shouted down. The rules on those forums are more specific, implied even in the forum name and description before you enter.

GQ however is the place to ask questions. It's not much fun coming into a forum as a new user, thinking this is the place to ask where the continue button is, only for a million people to swear at you that it's been asked a million times before instead of just telling the guy either where to find an answer of the answer.

Ideally, having an FAQ would be great, but it still won't cut out new people asking old questions, although it will give more established users a chance to say, I refer you to the this part of the FAQ. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right, and I guess what I'm trying to suggest is that GQ needs rules as well. Obviously these would be much more relaxed rules than anywhere else on the boards but there should still be clearly laid-out rules that are then consistently enforced. It could be as simple as:

1) Usual forum rules re: textspeak, racism &c.
2) Read the FAQ before posting (and then have a regularly updated FAQ thread).
3) Do make an effort to see if your question has already been asked and answered. The search function is not perfect but repeat threads may be locked. (There is no reason why all those endless 'when is the demo' threads should have been tolerated)
4) We have full confidence in our moderators; enforcing the rules is not your job. If you find a post that you believe breaks the rules please simply report it.

Enforcement of rules does not even really have to be unfriendly. 'Your thread has been locked, the answer to your question is in the FAQ' is not being unkind.

To me, just because GQ is the forum for all sorts of questions from posters of varying levels of experience does not mean there should be no standards enforced at all. It will be a much better forum if there are rules that everyone understands and the rules are consistently applied. If that means appointing more mods, then so be it.

[Bigwig]

Hence when people come into FMS for example and post something like 'Where's the Continue button' or go into LLM and ask about a player or a tactic they quite rightly get shouted down.

Sorry, but why are they 'quite rightly' shouted down?

Isn't it easier to just let someone know they're in the wrong place and point them in the right direction rather than treat them like they've just killed your family?

I think the forum police are more of a problem than the people asking the 'wrong' questions.

[Peacemaker7]

Originally posted by Neil Purvis:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Hence when people come into FMS for example and post something like 'Where's the Continue button' or go into LLM and ask about a player or a tactic they quite rightly get shouted down.

Sorry, but why are they 'quite rightly' shouted down?

Isn't it easier to just let someone know they're in the wrong place and point them in the right direction rather than treat them like they've just killed your family?

I think the forum police are more of a problem than the people asking the 'wrong' questions. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Erm they're politely told they are in the wrong place, nothing at all wrong with that. Can't speak for other forums but FMS had always been a self-regulating forum and it's worked well for over 7 years but thats not really the issue of this thread.

[medievalist]

Even in the infamous LLM forum they are told, firmly but politely, to read the headers and FAQ the first time. The only people who get 'shouted' at are the ones who try to argue.

And they deserve it.

[mark24cde]

How about a newbies only forum - with maybe a week or two week probation before automatically being allowed access to the other forums.
and conversely maybe a forum for the older users who seem to think there mods - I read earlier that one user had 290 people on their ignore list - sounds to me like there the one with the problem surely all of those 290 people couldn't have hacked him off that much

[rashidi1]

Originally posted by Neil Purvis:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Hence when people come into FMS for example and post something like 'Where's the Continue button' or go into LLM and ask about a player or a tactic they quite rightly get shouted down.

Sorry, but why are they 'quite rightly' shouted down?

Isn't it easier to just let someone know they're in the wrong place and point them in the right direction rather than treat them like they've just killed your family?

I think the forum police are more of a problem than the people asking the 'wrong' questions. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The Forum Police have been around for as long as the forum has been, and Neil is absolutely right that senior members should not resort to "shouting down". There is a right way and a wrong way to do this.

Moderators usually have tonnes to do, and we do appreciate responsible forum members who help and guide new users. What we shouldn't encourage is people "shouting down" and foul and abusive behaviour.

GQ is a forum which will attract all kinds of users...and we will definitely attract a lot of young users as well. And we need to understand that as well when we deal with them

[rashidi1]

Originally posted by mark24cde:
How about a newbies only forum - with maybe a week or two week probation before automatically being allowed access to the other forums.
and conversely maybe a forum for the older users who seem to think there mods - I read earlier that one user had 290 people on their ignore list - sounds to me like there the one with the problem surely all of those 290 people couldn't have hacked him off that much

I don't think he's entirely wrong in doing what he's done cos he does want to see posts that are constructive and if Jimbo has resorted to doing that it's just a symptom to a larger issue that needs addressing.

[Peacemaker7]

Well perhaps shouted down was the wrong term of phrase but I know what I meant and the point I was making is, there is a difference between this forum and others in the sense that this forum is the gateway if you like.

Theres actually nothing at all wrong with 'forum police' as long as it's done right. I think the correct level is, if someone on the street asked you the time, or can they have a light, you wouldn't punch them on the nose. Unless you were a psycho.

Your last point is probably the most valid rashidi.

[mark24cde]

whs

[gavnoble]

What happened to the age limit that used to be on the forums or did I dream that in the past you had to be 16 or over to join?

[birdy123]

gav - iirc the age limit is 12. Could be 13.

[Arkim]

The age limit doesn't really do anything does it? All you have to do is just make up a date. There is no way of confirming someone's age while registering. Unless I'm missing something?

[earmack]

As a new user the problem is stark and obvious. This is the first time I've posted so bear with me.
I have no idea about the demographic audience of the game but a huge guess would say that more older (29+) people play this(type of) game than other popular game genres. I would suggest that 90% of the problems lie with these people. People who have been there done that, they know the rules, they know when the new games are coming out, they know pretty much everything and they don't take kindly to newbies asking 'stupid' questions. They feel they have a right/they are doing a good thing by fielding queries with statements such as 'ohhhhhhh god not another one, read the rules.........' or something similar. In fact all they are doing is alienating new users. NO forum should encourage cliques of 'super' users and this seems to be what has happened on these forums(not just General Discussion). Really you have to ask yourselves do you want a forum of people who have been here for 3+ years who know everything about the game and only post on things they find 'ironic' or a forum where people can go for help with their queries. If you want the latter start banning (rolling bans ) older members when they break rules or are simply rude and or abusive. In no circumstances should a new user be berated in the way I have seen and the only solution i feel is massive punishments.

[Jimbokav1971]

mark & OZ. You've commented on by banned list so I will tell you who I put on it.

1. Anyone who continuously breaks the rules. They may only be small rules but what they are doing is sticking 2 fingers up to the rest of us and saying "I don't have to live to your rules".

2. Anyone who abuses anyone else in a manner that I consider more than light-hearted banter.

3. People who I have seen make serious rule breachhes but whom SI/Mods decided to turn a blind eye to.

4. People who I have reported for rule breaks to the Mods. Rather than see what action, (if any), the Mods are going to take, I just put them on my list and forget about it. As soon as they go on my list it becomes irrelevant what action the Mods take or what posts they make in the future.

5. People who re-load a game when they lose. (It's just a pet hate of mine and I have no intention of talking to them if I can help it).

6. People who I believe are just posting trying to get a reaction out of people.

Now I'm not doing this for antone's benefit other than my own. I used to have a VERY short temper. It is better now, but one way of dealing with my short temper is taking myself away from situations in which I might lose my temper. Adding people to my "ignore list" I suppose is an extension of this. The only thing that bothers me is that when someone on my list makes a new thread I am still able to see the opening post.

I used to spend A LOT of time in here and many of the people on my list were added around the release of the last 2 issues and the respective demos. I would hazard a guess that many of the people on my list are banned or are posting under an alias, but surely that is exactly what the ifnore list is there for.

Maybe if everyone used the ignore list rather than entering into slanging matches, the forum might be a far nicer place than it actually is. I'm not embarrassed at all by the number of people on my list. Maybe it's a sign of how much reading I do in here compared to posting.

Interesting that both of you seem to spend the majority of your time in OTF and not GQ.

[Ackter]

First offence: warning and linked to the forum rules
Repeat offence: 3 day ban
Repeat offence: 2 week ban
Repeat offence: 3 month ban
Repeat offence: Lifetime ban

The first three are the most important as it gives a user enough time to see that the forum is worth sticking around in but at the same time shows them there are rules to be respected.

Obviously with the possibility of leaping a few steps if the offence is severe.

Remember that if users were never given second chances then some of the SI team wouldn't be at SI now.

[Ackter]

Maybe if everyone used the ignore list rather than entering into slanging matches, the forum might be a far nicer place than it actually is.

Some people enjoy the slanging matches - for some I'm sure that's the only reason they're still here.

[mark24cde]

Why the last comment - does it matter where we post or are you just letting us know you've been checking our posting history

[Ackter]

do you want a forum of people who have been here for 3+ years who know everything about the game and only post on things they find 'ironic' or a forum where people can go for help with their queries.

Which is why I really think a Help (GQ) forum and a Suggestion/Discussion forum could be worth another trial.
A lot of those users would stay in the Suggestion/Discussion forum - while those who want to provide help can venture into the Help forum from time to time as well.

It would also make it slightly easier for SI and the mods to manage imo.

[Ackter]

Originally posted by mark24cde:
Why the last comment - does it matter where we post or are you just letting us know you've been checking our posting history

It's just one of Jimbo's 'Shall I ignore him' process. Looking through the first few pages of someone's past history can give a very good image of the type of poster that person is, and whether it's worth talking to them or simply ignoring them and moving on.

[Jimbokav1971]

Originally posted by mark24cde:
Why the last comment - does it matter where we post or are you just letting us know you've been checking our posting history

What part did you not understand?

I find it interesting that both the people who mentioned my ignore list spend the majority of their time in OTF.

[Jimbokav1971]

Originally posted by Ackter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark24cde:
Why the last comment - does it matter where we post or are you just letting us know you've been checking our posting history

It's just one of Jimbo's 'Shall I ignore him' process. Looking through the first few pages of someone's past history can give a very good image of the type of poster that person is, and whether it's worth talking to them or simply ignoring them and moving on. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah. I do that a lot.

[Rcjuk]

Look lads, I'll be a mod if you want?

Highly respected poster round here and I tow the line, just drop me an email.

Can't wait to ban nelly.

[saved_by_barry_horne]

Originally posted by Rcjuk:
Look lads, I'll be a mod if you want?

Highly respected poster round here and I tow the line, just drop me an email.

Can't wait to ban nelly.

[mark24cde]

Originally posted by Ackter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark24cde:
Why the last comment - does it matter where we post or are you just letting us know you've been checking our posting history

It's just one of Jimbo's 'Shall I ignore him' process. Looking through the first few pages of someone's past history can give a very good image of the type of poster that person is, and whether it's worth talking to them or simply ignoring them and moving on. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the explanation it was feeling a bit big brotherish but I can see the logic in that now tbf

[gavnoble]

Originally posted by Ackter:
First offence: warning and linked to the forum rules
Repeat offence: 3 day ban
Repeat offence: 2 week ban
Repeat offence: 3 month ban
Repeat offence: Lifetime ban

The first three are the most important as it gives a user enough time to see that the forum is worth sticking around in but at the same time shows them there are rules to be respected.

Obviously with the possibility of leaping a few steps if the offence is severe.

Remember that if users were never given second chances then some of the SI team wouldn't be at SI now.

I like the three strikes and you're out approach as it gives people a chance to change accordingly. Obviously there will have to exceptions for severe offences when an automatic ban is justified.

As for those saying you need to give new users time. I agree slightly but when I look back to when I started posting I made sure that I was aware before I posted what was within the rules and what wasn't. That's either common sense or part of my own ethic - not sure which.

I also took the time to read the forum header, which back in the CM days had a small, non-ovepowering list of what you could post etc i.e. no player naming etc. While not everyone reads the forum headers, it did give people a point of reference to refer to in posts as the FAQ, when compiled first by Liam Harper and then by myself used to.

It's quite encouraging to see that most of the people offering constructive suggestions are the people that I highly regards as posters anyway, with many sharnig the same view of myself that this place isn't like it used to be so that's why the majority of us (myself included) don't post very often in here anymore.

Towards the end of my regualr time in here I was starting to lose patience with the same questions asked multiple times on the same pages and the constant slanging matches.

The FM Forum has the potential to be as good as the CM Forum was in what I think was it's hayday with posters like Liam Harper, Caleyjag, jedimonkey, cleon, Herman Bloom and many others of a similar ilk. It seemed that back then people were slightly more tolerant of new users but also the new users weren't as impetuous either.

I know I mentioned it earlier, but I think the fact the CM Forums had its designated moderating team made a big difference to how the forum operated and it seems that a good proportion of people posting in this thread agree that it would be a step in the right direction to have a similar team in place here.

It provides a figurehead for the forum and also helps keep control to know that someone is assigned and will be keeping an eye on things.

Someone earlier (was it rashid?) mentioned using cards as a way of removing access to some of the forums. While I like this as an idea I'm not sure it would be feasible as I imagine most of the rulebreakers would really only use this forum anyway. However Ackter, mentioning bans for various lengths of time is a sensible idea I think.

Those that want to change will come back and adapt whereas those that don't isn't a great loss to the FM gene pool really.

[FungusMungus]

Lovely thread this.

[mark24cde]

Reading through this thread the overwhelming feeling I get is that the main problem is not new people posting incorrectly its the way they get told about it.
People need to be far more welcoming tbh Miles main comments were regarding bullying behaviour and not people posting in the wrong forum or continually asking when the demo will be out.

[birdy123]

As for those saying you need to give new users time. I agree slightly but when I look back to when I started posting I made sure that I was aware before I posted what was within the rules and what wasn't. That's either common sense or part of my own ethic - not sure which.

I feel the same. I think that is why I get frustrated by the same questions being asked over and over again. I always search before starting a new thread and I didn't post much in my first month or two. I got the feel of the place and started learning things, etc.

Maybe something that could be implemented is a newcomers forum. This could be the only forum that brand new users have to read before they can post anywhere else or something along those lines. In here can be threads that explain what to do, not to do, explain what forums should be used for what, etc. I feel that this would be a way to help the newcomers to the community, and also a way to help stop the same threads being posted with the same responses in.

[super_imps]

Give everyone mod rights.

[rashidi1]

One other reason why some of us haven't really been posting that much is cos we are getting a bit older, a little bit more senile too..at least in my case.

[dafuge]

Originally posted by gavnoble:

I know I mentioned it earlier, but I think the fact the CM Forums had its designated moderating team made a big difference to how the forum operated and it seems that a good proportion of people posting in this thread agree that it would be a step in the right direction to have a similar team in place here.

It provides a figurehead for the forum and also helps keep control to know that someone is assigned and will be keeping an eye on things.

I agree, the moderators are there to set the tone of the forum and act as role models for the regular users. If the moderators are around to set examples and keep on eye on people's behaviour, I'm sure people will be more amicable towards the newer / less experienced members of the forums. This seems even more important on this particular forum where there seems to be only small number of regular experienced users in comparison to the past.

[playmaker]

Originally posted by birdy123:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As for those saying you need to give new users time. I agree slightly but when I look back to when I started posting I made sure that I was aware before I posted what was within the rules and what wasn't. That's either common sense or part of my own ethic - not sure which.

I feel the same. I think that is why I get frustrated by the same questions being asked over and over again. I always search before starting a new thread and I didn't post much in my first month or two. I got the feel of the place and started learning things, etc.

Maybe something that could be implemented is a newcomers forum. This could be the only forum that brand new users have to read before they can post anywhere else or something along those lines. In here can be threads that explain what to do, not to do, explain what forums should be used for what, etc. I feel that this would be a way to help the newcomers to the community, and also a way to help stop the same threads being posted with the same responses in. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
A lot of people will register because they have a question they want to ask. If they have to wait to get onto GQ then they will lose interest.

[birdy123]

But there could be a thread in the forum that has a list of FAQ's. And if their question is not in there, then they can post in the FAQ forum and ask there.

[dafuge]

Originally posted by birdy123:
But there could be a thread in the forum that has a list of FAQ's. And if their question is not in there, then they can post in the FAQ forum and ask there.

If they are new and their question does not appear in the FAQ, they will assume that it is not a frequently asked question and ask it in GQ anyway though.

[birdy123]

If they ask it in GQ, then that question can be added to the list of FAQ's if it is necessary.

[dafuge]

Originally posted by birdy123:
If they ask it in GQ, then that question can be added to the list of FAQ's if it is necessary.

I think that whatever is done to prevent it, you will always get a certain number of people asking the same old questions. I think the point of this thread is that people should be responding to these threads in an appropriate manner that is informative but polite and well mannered at the same time.