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Thread: These forums

  1. #1901
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    Can't remember the last time I saw so many cheap shots. I'm inclined to say that if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen, but that's not in any way constructive so I won't say that

    99% of those who feel they've been treated unfairly have either A. not read the header or B. decided that their way of playing the game is far better than hours and consequently decided to educate the rest of us.

    As for option A. If you don't make the minute effort of looking at the header and making yourself aware of the basic rules of the forum you decide to post in then you're asking for it. That's not just true about an internet forum, it works the same way in any social situation you find yourself in.

    As far as option B goes. We don't tell everybody else how to play the game so please return the favor by not trying to force us to play the game the way you think we should. It has been said that LLaMas believe themselves to be morally superior. That's a load of ..., well, you know. We like to play the game a specific way. If you don't like it leave us alone and we'll part on friendly terms. In fact it could be argued that those who decide they should change the way we play think themselves morally superior.

    As for some members jumping the gun. It happens, that can't be denied. The reasons are years of hearing the same arguments for changing the LLM guidelines, breaking forum rules etc. That's no excuse, and LLM regulars should try to control their temper, at least to a certain degree. Someone said that each subforum has it's own personality, well put. LLM regulars have been forged through baptism of fire. Those who have come through at the other end are not just guys who happen to post on the same forum, they are friends. It's not a closed club, it's open to anyone willing to stick it out. The LLM forum is not for people with sensitive skin and frankly it shouldn't be. The beauty of all these different fora is that there's aplace for everyone to feel at home. I believe that's the great strength of SI's fora. They have manage to build not just one, but many loyal communities who enjoy their game in many different ways.

    As for iajafer. Taking cheap shots at him is unfair. Yes he's a mod, but he's also a member of the community. If anything he is sometimes too lenient, not just towards the regulars, but also very much against newcomers to LLM. If he was any more strict than he is he'd be handing out cards left and right and nobody wants that.

    When it comes down to it he's just a big teddy bear. Whenever you see a post in the LLM forum that you think is too harsh try to find the humorous angle, it will be there in almost all instances.

  2. #1902
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    Chopper,

    the thing is, you can't compare the LLM forum and the T&TF forum. The reason for them is very different. The LLM forum is for people who believe in playing the game in the most realsitic way (within the framework of the game). That is what the guidelines are for. They are there to show people how to play the game realistically, starting at the bottom and working your way up. Or not. Maybe spending several seasons struggling at one club. Or being relegated and starting again. Whatever it is. Some do achieve things. But the point is they don't then say to others, 'You should sign Jimmy Sparrow because he will score you 30 goals.' They found him using their scouts and you and I can find such a player using our scouts.

    The thing with T&TF is that you cut out the scouts. You say, 'can anyone tell me a good striker that is free?' and see what someone else says so that you can search for them and sign them. That doesn't happen in reality. Managers are in competition with each other for the same players and aren't going to help each other find some players. The ethos is different. In T&TF people are asking for information that others are willing to give because they think it is OK to do so. In the LLM forum nobody will do this. Find the players yourself. Develop your own tactics. Just like a real manager. It might be hard, but the success that you have gained yourself will be much more rewarding than copying someone else.

    I started reading the LLM forum years ago. I posted in there. I got no abuse because I read the guidelines and read some posts and worked out what it was about. I don't go there so much now, not because of the mods and the regulars who are there, but because of the people who come in for a wind-up or to challenge the guidelines. It gets very tiring. If people get annoyed it's because it's the same thing over and over again. It's not that they are ignorant or abusive by nature, it's just because when you poke a dog with a stick long enough it will bite.

    This isn't aimed at you by the way. I just happened to read this thread and noticed your comparision with a different forum. But they are different for the reasons I have said.

  3. #1903
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    Originally posted by solano:

    The thing with T&TF is that you cut out the scouts. You say, 'can anyone tell me a good striker that is free?' and see what someone else says so that you can search for them and sign them. That doesn't happen in reality. Managers are in competition with each other for the same players and aren't going to help each other find some players.
    Pompey signed Yakubu and Benjani on recommendations from Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger respectively

  4. #1904
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    Originally posted by solano:
    Chopper,

    the thing is, you can't compare the LLM forum and the T&TF forum. The reason for them is very different. The LLM forum is for people who believe in playing the game in the most realsitic way (within the framework of the game). That is what the guidelines are for. They are there to show people how to play the game realistically, starting at the bottom and working your way up. Or not. Maybe spending several seasons struggling at one club. Or being relegated and starting again. Whatever it is. Some do achieve things. But the point is they don't then say to others, 'You should sign Jimmy Sparrow because he will score you 30 goals.' They found him using their scouts and you and I can find such a player using our scouts.

    The thing with T&TF is that you cut out the scouts. You say, 'can anyone tell me a good striker that is free?' and see what someone else says so that you can search for them and sign them. That doesn't happen in reality. Managers are in competition with each other for the same players and aren't going to help each other find some players. The ethos is different. In T&TF people are asking for information that others are willing to give because they think it is OK to do so. In the LLM forum nobody will do this. Find the players yourself. Develop your own tactics. Just like a real manager. It might be hard, but the success that you have gained yourself will be much more rewarding than copying someone else.

    I started reading the LLM forum years ago. I posted in there. I got no abuse because I read the guidelines and read some posts and worked out what it was about. I don't go there so much now, not because of the mods and the regulars who are there, but because of the people who come in for a wind-up or to challenge the guidelines. It gets very tiring. If people get annoyed it's because it's the same thing over and over again. It's not that they are ignorant or abusive by nature, it's just because when you poke a dog with a stick long enough it will bite.

    This isn't aimed at you by the way. I just happened to read this thread and noticed your comparision with a different forum. But they are different for the reasons I have said.
    I would argue that there are many similarities between some of the tacticians and the LLaMas. A large proportion of better threads are purely theory and concentrate on how to 'realistically' design tactics, not how to 'unrealistically' exploit the engine. There is very little difference between hard-core tactical realists and LLaMas other than one side talks about tactical theory and the other doesn't. I deliberately hold back exploitive knoweldge of the engine in T&T, and certainly don't employ it myself. I also don't ever read any Good Player Guides and, as a rule, we close T&T threads asking for player hints. Just like any good LLaMa, I also learn tactics from the bottom up, usually starting with a club predicted to be relegated from the BSN/S and play one career game only. I also write my tactical theories only after three seasons of playing, so I know they work, in much the same manner that LLaMas can't post until then.

    In general, the tactical realists use the forum to generate tactical discussion in the same manner they would talk to backroom staff about issues causing them grief. It is not 'please give me a tactic I can download to win', although there is a lot of that, it is 'how can we go about solving a certain scenario', such as a fast midfielders causing havoc in your defensive settings. There are many 'super-tactics' out there, but they cater for a different type of audience. The successful moderation of T&T requires us to manage both sets of demands, competing though they are, and support and maintain 'good' discussion. We also get annoyed by repetitive demands of 'whats the bezt taktik' and people misperceiving the purpose of the forum. Just like you, we also bite when we've had enough.

    The major difference is our managing of competing demands. LLaMaism is a code, most of which I follow, but it is a code that doesn't allow for certain practices, such as writing about tactics. That keeps me out, even though I fully endorse most of its practices. I respect that and make my choice in full knowledge thereof. However, this generates a certain 'inflexibility' towards even slightly off-kilter membership, alongside developing a local jargon that many newbies might feel intimidated by (I, for example, received an honorary 'Brodie' when making my 1000th post at FM-Britain, in the LLM forum, in which I was explaining the direction of the Beta tests and the post-Beta 8.0.1-0.2 defensive bug without actually being LLaMa unfriendly; took a lot of crafting that post ). It also has a long-term clubby/cliquey culture that T&T doesn't have, although perhaps it used to??

    Dspite having said all this, I don't know how LLM could solve the issue in the same manner T&T does. You need to have some flexibility as to different audiences and present different faces to each. LLM has no time for a second audience. It has one, and one only, and caters for that audience wholeheartedly. Anything else is shut out. It is totalitarian (maybe benevolently so, but totalitarian nonetheless) whereas T&T is a limited and heavily policed democracy in which different requirements are catered for. It is perfectly possible to be on T&T and never upload/download a tactic or read about any specific player. However, you can do that should you so wish.

    The main problem people have with LLaMas is their defintion of 'realistic' and that they play in the most 'realistic' manner possible. That should be rephrased. The most realistic manner possible would have coaching certificates (as simulated by T&T theory threads) plus access to databases telling you who the better players are (as simulated by the game's database itself). Ignoring both is not 'realistic' rather 'hardcore'. The term 'realistic' is why people react negatively; it smacks of innate superiority (unfounded I know, but all the same...). Maybe some rebranding is required? That might keep the idiots off your back and the LLM forum a nicer place to visit?

  5. #1905
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    You're missing out a bit. It's "as realistic as the game allows". It's an assumption that the player has the required coaching certificates.

    The player databases that certain clubs have access to would not be available for small clubs such as Marine. Some players have registered on various sites and have found the data to be very sketchy with little detail.

    The "transfer list" idea is also a big issue because from those who have seen it, it just apparently gives a huge list of names available on free transfers. I can't realistically see a scout or manager having the time to trawl through the list and find out where the player lives in relation to the club.

    That said, it's up to the individual to decide what's realistic.

    There is an element of those who claim to be LLMers who slate people who don't follow the guidelines exactly, forgetting they are guidelines - not rules.

    If you feel how you play the game is realistic, don't feel the need to argue the point against people who don't want to listen. In fact, I don't think you'd feel the need to argue the point at all - just get on with the way you feel the game is most realistic to you - although the "no tipping" rule is non-negotiable.

    We used to allow people to say what tactics they were using but we got fed up of people giving tips on tactics.

    The onus isn't just on the LLMers to make the place a better place to visit, it's also the responsibility of the people posting there to be non-aggressive in their approach. Going into a forum with a friendly attitude makes a huge difference. Most of the people who have gone in with an aggressive attitude (if not all of them) have left because their own inflexibility in thinking stops them from realising that the rules of the forum are very few and are in the header. The guidelines in the stickies are just that - guidelines - to show a subjective view of trying to play the game in a realistic manner.

    Many people forget that. Guidelines are not rules.

  6. #1906
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    Originally posted by wwfan:

    The main problem people have with LLaMas is their defintion of 'realistic' and that they play in the most 'realistic' manner possible. That should be rephrased. The most realistic manner possible would have coaching certificates (as simulated by T&T theory threads) plus access to databases telling you who the better players are (as simulated by the game's database itself). Ignoring both is not 'realistic' rather 'hardcore'. The term 'realistic' is why people react negatively; it smacks of innate superiority (unfounded I know, but all the same...). Maybe some rebranding is required? That might keep the idiots off your back and the LLM forum a nicer place to visit?
    I think (and someone may want to correct me here) that the LLaMa way of playing in terms of realism is that they play as realistically as possibly within the limitations of the game. If the game does not cover something that happens in real life (like managers recommending players) then they shall not use any outside influences to do that. Many people (including myself) play the game in a way which they think is realistic, but they find ways to fill the gaps in the game by the way which they use these forums. To me, LLM is about not using these forums to fill the gaps.

  7. #1907
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    LLMers in general have no problem with that opinion. However, certain people try to tell LLMers that they should use these external influences, which is why they get annoyed.

    If you want to post in LLM, then don't think you're going to change the ways LLM is played. Apart from a few people, most LLMers will accept constructive posts from people who post in other fora.

    If you're being negative or disparaging, then that will reflect in the responses.

  8. #1908
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    My favourite is when they start with "Don't flame me but..."

  9. #1909
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    I think we should change the title of this thread to.......

    "Here, have a stick. Now go and beat LLM about the head with it!".

  10. #1910
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    Originally posted by Jimbokav1971:
    I think we should change the title of this thread to.......

    "Here, have a stick. Now go and beat LLM about the head with it!".
    That's because the LLM forum is the the problem

    most LLMers will accept constructive posts from people who post in other fora.
    Whatever let's you sleep at night.

  11. #1911
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    Originally posted by Nuno10:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jimbokav1971:
    I think we should change the title of this thread to.......

    "Here, have a stick. Now go and beat LLM about the head with it!".
    That's because the LLM forum is the the problem

    most LLMers will accept constructive posts from people who post in other fora.
    Whatever let's you sleep at night. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Don't be daft, LLM isn't that bad at all. I'm not claiming it's perfect, but it could be a lot worse, and GQ needs more attention before we consider remedying whatever gripes you may have with llm.

  12. #1912
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    Words honestly fail me.

    I can't remember what Nuno did to get on my ignore list but I think that comment probably suggests that I made the correct decision.

    Stop quoting him please Ched .

  13. #1913
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    Originally posted by Jimbokav1971:
    Words honestly fail me.

    I can't remember what Nuno did to get on my ignore list but I think that comment probably suggests that I made the correct decision.

    Stop quoting him please Ched .
    Consider it done

    I'm quite impressed he's managed to figure everything out in less than three weeks of forum time...

  14. #1914
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    Originally posted by Ched:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jimbokav1971:
    Words honestly fail me.

    I can't remember what Nuno did to get on my ignore list but I think that comment probably suggests that I made the correct decision.

    Stop quoting him please Ched .
    Consider it done

    I'm quite impressed he's managed to figure everything out in less than three weeks of forum time... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    20 secs with a post from iajafer is all you need mate.
    I'm also quite suprised with the ignore, I admit that that post was pretty bad but other than that I've done pretty much nothing on these. I guess you don't like being disagreed with.

  15. #1915
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    Didn't want to start a thread so figured I'd post in here on the off chance one of the mods sees it.

    Is there any particular reason this thread got closed:-

    http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...1/m/2532093393

    If it's because it went a bit off topic with some back and forth between the Liverpool and Arsenal supporters, then wouldn't a warning to them to get back on topic have been a better response since it wasn't the OP that was involved.

    Considering the OP is new to the forums it doesn't exactly give a welcoming impression that their thread got closed without any explanation.

  16. #1916
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    I think punishments should be really harsh personally:

    Once = Warning (which lasts 6 weeks)
    Twice = Banned for a week (then on final warning for 4 weeks)
    Third time = IP Ban, email address ban.

    Sadly it's not just the SI forums, it seems to be a trend across the net (Video games anyway). The one I have major problems is GameFAQs, been a member for 7 years and it's gradually developed from a gret site into uncontrolable chaos.

  17. #1917
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    Originally posted by Robioto:
    I think punishments should be really harsh personally:

    Once = Warning (which lasts 6 weeks)
    Twice = Banned for a week (then on final warning for 4 weeks)
    Third time = IP Ban, email address ban.

    Sadly it's not just the SI forums, it seems to be a trend across the net (Video games anyway). The one I have major problems is GameFAQs, been a member for 7 years and it's gradually developed from a great site into uncontrolable chaos.

  18. #1918
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    This LLM blah blah blah has been going on since the days of Methuselah.

    Contamination can be game spoiling or at best very very irritating. Contamination can occur accidentally or intentionally. Anyone who is not a Llama or Crapper is capable of bringing dirt, filth and grime into our gaff and needs to be kept at distance. The LLM forum is our safehouse against this. It’s a clean healthy environment where Llama’s can breathe fresh, unpolluted air. The contaminated user often carries a foul bouquet that the Llama has a nose for.

    You can't actually teach the LLM way, you either get it or you don't, its summink you feel.... with a pure heart and right mindset. If you are clever enough not to read the forum guidelines and post summink as a contaminated user then you will be asked to get out. We do not want contamination. If you don’t understand the 'guidelines' or ethos then its probably not for you.... you won't get it. You should go away quietly. LLM-on-a-whim is also very very tiresome. Frank gets particularly irked by this.

    If you do understand, are obviously not going to pollute, and do play realistically with a good heart and with integrity then I think you will find that LLM forum is quite friendly and welcoming place compared to other fora.

  19. #1919
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    Considering the OP is new to the forums it doesn't exactly give a welcoming impression that their thread got closed without any explanation.
    The OP was banned for being an alias account on the wind up which is probably why the thread was closed as well.

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    Originally posted by Claret:
    This LLM blah blah blah has been going on since the days of Methuselah.

    Contamination can be game spoiling or at best very very irritating. Contamination can occur accidentally or intentionally. Anyone who is not a Llama or Crapper is capable of bringing dirt, filth and grime into our gaff and needs to be kept at distance. The LLM forum is our safehouse against this. It’s a clean healthy environment where Llama’s can breathe fresh, unpolluted air. The contaminated user often carries a foul bouquet that the Llama has a nose for.

    You can't actually teach the LLM way, you either get it or you don't, its summink you feel.... with a pure heart and right mindset. If you are clever enough not to read the forum guidelines and post summink as a contaminated user then you will be asked to get out. We do not want contamination. If you don’t understand the 'guidelines' or ethos then its probably not for you.... you won't get it. You should go away quietly. LLM-on-a-whim is also very very tiresome. Frank gets particularly irked by this.

    If you do understand, are obviously not going to pollute, and do play realistically with a good heart and with integrity then I think you will find that LLM forum is quite friendly and welcoming place compared to other fora.
    I sincerely hope this was tongue-in-cheek. If not, it confirms my thinking that some people simply revel in the spouting of tripe.

  21. #1921
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    originally posted by Ter:-

    The OP was banned for being an alias account on the wind up which is probably why the thread was closed as well.
    Thanks for the answer.

    Some people on t'interweb are a bit unbalanced.

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    T'is rather ironic, if I look far enough back in this thread I find balanced and intelligent users suggesting that GQ needs to be as sharply policed as LLM is.

    For me it's simple, LLM is a very specific forum for people who play FM in a very specialised way, if you don't play that way why would you post there?

    If you do it through ignorance of it's rules you should depart once you have been advised of that.
    If you do it because you think the LLM rules and guidelines should be changed to suit your interpretation of LLM you deserve a mild roasting.

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    Originally posted by Kriss:
    T'is rather ironic, if I look far enough back in this thread I find balanced and intelligent users suggesting that GQ needs to be as sharply policed as LLM is.
    maybe not a bad idea, the quality in GQ discussions is really awsome, lately

  24. #1924
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    I particularly liked the 'Am I cheating' thread, OP asked the question, was told by pretty much everyone he was cheating & then argued his position because he didn't like the answer.

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    General Discussions is a tricky one to call because it does, by its very nature, need to be more accessible and open-ended. That said, like all forums, it does have set rules and guidelines, and its mods are actually pretty good. The problem is that it also seems to be a bit of a dumping ground for the dross that results in a good flaming elsewhere.

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    There are some decent threads in here. Shame they're surrounded by threads saying "OMG! It's a bug. SI need to fix it NOW!"

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    Originally posted by Barside:
    I particularly liked the 'Am I cheating' thread, OP asked the question, was told by pretty much everyone he was cheating & then argued his position because he didn't like the answer.
    That particular poster has a few things going on, it's a deliberate wind-up, I'll bet you 10000 baht

  28. #1928
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    But not a single actual flame I notice... By Jove, things might just be looking up 'round these here parts.

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    There is little doubt that the whole tone of GQ has improved in the last 6 months- all we need now is the new Mods for GQ and it will be all good. Unfortuneately there will still be loads of repetitive thread asking the same questions but hey, we cant have it all!

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    There is little doubt that the whole tone of GQ has improved in the last 6 months- all we need now is the new Mods for GQ and it will be all good. Unfortuneately there will still be loads of repetitive thread asking the same questions but hey, we cant have it all!
    We've already started the process of recruiting some new moderators so things should start to get moving going forward.

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    Originally posted by Ter:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There is little doubt that the whole tone of GQ has improved in the last 6 months- all we need now is the new Mods for GQ and it will be all good. Unfortuneately there will still be loads of repetitive thread asking the same questions but hey, we cant have it all!
    We've already started the process of recruiting some new moderators so things should start to get moving going forward. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Thanks for that info Ter- this thread has been opened for a while and it would be good to see some conclusion and closure from the members input.

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    There has been a lot of discussion internally and with the moderators as a result of this thread and our own conclusions.

    What we plan to do moving forward will be made public in due course.

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    Originally posted by Ter:
    There has been a lot of discussion internally and with the moderators as a result of this thread and our own conclusions.

    What we plan to do moving forward will be made public in due course.
    Look forward to it.

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    Originally posted by Mike7077:
    I sincerely hope this was tongue-in-cheek. If not, it confirms my thinking that some people simply revel in the spouting of tripe.
    You are quite obviously contaminated my son. I can smell it. Now go away quietly.

  35. #1935
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    Originally posted by Claret:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mike7077:
    I sincerely hope this was tongue-in-cheek. If not, it confirms my thinking that some people simply revel in the spouting of tripe.
    You are quite obviously contaminated my son. I can smell it. Now go away quietly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    You know what? I think I'll stay riiiight here.

  36. #1936
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    Originally posted by Ter:
    There has been a lot of discussion internally and with the moderators as a result of this thread and our own conclusions.

    What we plan to do moving forward will be made public in due course.
    yip and yay, the sooner the better.

  37. #1937
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    Sorry to sound stupid (new here) but what does GQ stand for??

  38. #1938
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    GQ=General Questions.

  39. #1939
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    Originally posted by crazychazza:
    Sorry to sound stupid (new here) but what does GQ stand for??
    This forum was renamed, it used to be known as General Questions (GQ) before being changed to General Discussion (GD) since the forum was more based around discussions that specific questions. Nearly everyone still calls it GQ, my bookmark is still labelled GQ.

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    Now, of course, we risk hotheads referring to it as "the GD forum!"

  41. #1941
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    Although to call it "General Discussions" is far from what you're actually allowed to talk about.

    The word "general", as described in the dictionary, is -

    <LI> Not specialized or limited in range of subject, application, activity, etc.

    This forum is far, far from that.

  42. #1942
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    That's not quite accurate.

    It's actually called "PC/Mac General Discussion", and is in the "Football Managers Forums" subsection of the SI Games forum.

    Basically is should be used, (as far as I'm aware), for everything that concerns FM, that is not covered by the other specific sub forums, (such as tactics/training/editors/good players/graphicsets etc), and that is relevant to both the "Football Manager" title and the "PC/Mac" titls.

    With the exception of threads that break forum rules and threads that discuss things such as license issues, I don't remember too many threads being closed or moved that have met the above criteria where the posts inside have not broken house rules themselves.

    I think it does what it say on the tin but I suppose it IS open to interpretation.

  43. #1943
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    I'm not saying I'm right Jimbo, I was just picking a hole because I was annoyed that a perfectly fine thread (in my opinion) got closed.

    There are a few reasons why I was annoyed, but mainly because of this.

    There are plenty of thread that aren't suitable for GD, that forum members direct the OP to the correct place for. These, for some unknown reason, don't get closed. They are only a few posts for the majority, as what is said needs to be said.

    Then we have the thread that was closed. Nothing too out of context for the forum, and a genuinely good discussion could break out, but before we get to breathe, its locked.

    IMO, instead of locking it, just move it to the relevant forum so we can continue the discussion.

    I'm not going to write too extensively on the subject, because I know SI are doing a lot to bring the forums back to normality, and I know a "change" is going to happen soon, (which I hope is a change in the layout of the forums) - but the Die Hard attitude the mods are taking needs to be across all the forums, and its just not.

    The other forums, in respect, are dead. (With exception to Challenges/FMS/LLM - and I'm talking about FM forums, not OTF etc). People are posting correct topics in the correct forums, but waiting days, sometimes weeks for a response, where if they posted in GD, they would more than likely get an instant response. Even, in some cases, I've personally gone to OTF to ask a question related to FM, because I knew I'd get a quicker, yet informed response than if I had posted in the correct forum.

    I'm not saying there aren't a lot of topics that need to be closed in here, don't get me wrong, I know theres a lot of piff posted, but surely the mods could show a little more reason, when closing threads.

  44. #1944
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    Yeah, I know what you mean but the Mods just call it as they see it I guess.

    One day they might think A and the next B. They are human(ish) after all.

    Anyway, I get your overall point and after being away from here for quite a while recently I have come up with an idea that I am not sure that anyone has mentioned.

    You comment that many on the FM sub-forums are "dead". This is probably because when you sign in, you sign in to GQ I think.

    Well what if, when you signed in, rather than being dropped straight int GQ, you landed on this page instead, and then had to decide where you should go in order to find the information you require.

    Isn't that how it's done in most forums?

  45. #1945
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    Yea thats generally how it works elsewhere.

    But personally, I think there should be a forum on FM (GD is ideal, imo) - where people come, initially, ask what they need/want and get directed to the subsequent forum from there. There should be no "rules" as to what topics you can and cant post about, so discussion of Tactics, or players is accepted, but if the forum worked like I have it work in my head, then these discussions will never break out in this forum, because the person will be directed to the correct place.

    Heres some example's of how it would work.

    Member signs up.

    <LI>Posts new topic in GD, asking about Training.
    <LI>Forumite directs new member to Tactics/Training forum
    <LI>Thread dies.

    Member signs up.

    <LI>Posts a topic, regarding the growth of players in game
    <LI>A discussion breaks out
    <LI>The discussion comes to an end.

    I just don't see the problem with that.

  46. #1946
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    Originally posted by Jimbokav1971:
    Well what if, when you signed in, rather than being dropped straight int GQ, you landed on this page instead, and then had to decide where you should go in order to find the information you require.

    Isn't that how it's done in most forums?
    Jimbo that's exactly how I have my favourite link set-up, IIRC it was the default setting when I registered.

  47. #1947
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    Yeah, that's what I thought, (but I must admit that I have favourite links for GQ, LLM, Chellenge forum and even the dafuge and Gundo threads themselves).

    I signed up in about 2000(ish) I think when things were a little different and to be honest I didn't post for ages after signing up.

    I can't temember what made me sign up or what I first did when I did sign up, but I knoe that I read a LOT and probably learnt more in that first day than I would have believed.

    I was particularly impressed with FMS initially and GQ didn't exist back then it was..... CMD Champ Man Discussion, (or something similar). It wasn't till years later that I found LLM and started posting regularly anywhere.

    Even know when I am looking for the answer to something specific, if I have been away from the forums for a while, (as I have been recently), then I would always have a quick look first just to see if anyone else had posted about it.

    On that subject, it seems a REAL disaster that all the old threads have been lost to the abyss. I know most of it was tripe but there was some gold in them there threads and SI have missed a trick by not saving some of them. I would personally have been willing to sift through them to find a selection that deserved to be archived for future reference.

  48. #1948
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    On that subject, it seems a REAL disaster that all the old threads have been lost to the abyss. I know most of it was tripe but there was some gold in them there threads and SI have missed a trick by not saving some of them. I would personally have been willing to sift through them to find a selection that deserved to be archived for future reference.
    Although that would of been better I wouldn't of minded if SI simply let everyone know about it some time before they all went. At least then I could of made my own copies of anything I thought was worthy of keeping.

  49. #1949
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    Originally posted by NepentheZ:
    Yea thats generally how it works elsewhere.

    But personally, I think there should be a forum on FM (GD is ideal, imo) - where people come, initially, ask what they need/want and get directed to the subsequent forum from there. There should be no "rules" as to what topics you can and cant post about, so discussion of Tactics, or players is accepted, but if the forum worked like I have it work in my head, then these discussions will never break out in this forum, because the person will be directed to the correct place.

    Heres some example's of how it would work.

    Member signs up.

    <LI>Posts new topic in GD, asking about Training.
    <LI>Forumite directs new member to Tactics/Training forum
    <LI>Thread dies.

    Member signs up.

    <LI>Posts a topic, regarding the growth of players in game
    <LI>A discussion breaks out
    <LI>The discussion comes to an end.

    I just don't see the problem with that.
    Only because you're only looking it from your own perspective. It would be a logistical nightmare if all threads were started in GD and had to be redirected. Anyone with two working brain cells can work out that if there's a tactics forum, then that's probably the best place to ask about tactics...

    There are also people who like to play the game without seeing obvious spoilers - mainly player and tactical tips - GD would be out of bounds for them if they were posted here instead of GP&TG and T&TT. I know there are still 'spoilers' to be found on GD, but some effort should be made to keep it free of the worst spoilers - i.e. players and tactics.

    Not doing so inconveniences people like me more than regulating it inconveniences people like you...

  50. #1950
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    Originally posted by Elrawkum:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:
    Yea thats generally how it works elsewhere.

    But personally, I think there should be a forum on FM (GD is ideal, imo) - where people come, initially, ask what they need/want and get directed to the subsequent forum from there. There should be no "rules" as to what topics you can and cant post about, so discussion of Tactics, or players is accepted, but if the forum worked like I have it work in my head, then these discussions will never break out in this forum, because the person will be directed to the correct place.

    Heres some example's of how it would work.

    Member signs up.

    <LI>Posts new topic in GD, asking about Training.
    <LI>Forumite directs new member to Tactics/Training forum
    <LI>Thread dies.

    Member signs up.

    <LI>Posts a topic, regarding the growth of players in game
    <LI>A discussion breaks out
    <LI>The discussion comes to an end.

    I just don't see the problem with that.
    Only because you're only looking it from your own perspective. It would be a logistical nightmare if all threads were started in GD and had to be redirected. Anyone with two working brain cells can work out that if there's a tactics forum, then that's probably the best place to ask about tactics...

    There are also people who like to play the game without seeing obvious spoilers - mainly player and tactical tips - GD would be out of bounds for them if they were posted here instead of GP&TG and T&TT. I know there are still 'spoilers' to be found on GD, but some effort should be made to keep it free of the worst spoilers - i.e. players and tactics.

    Not doing so inconveniences people like me more than regulating it inconveniences people like you... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I'm not sure if thats a stab at me or an actual response, but either way, while I was typing it I was thinking it over in my head, thinking "perhaps this isn't going to work" - but posted it anyway for views on the idea.

    I mainly use 3 forums on here, GD, Challenges and T&T (Despite me rarely posting in T&T). I've never really ventured into FMS or LLM, because what I've read about them is poor.

  51. #1951
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    On that subject, it seems a REAL disaster that all the old threads have been lost to the abyss. I know most of it was tripe but there was some gold in them there threads and SI have missed a trick by not saving some of them. I would personally have been willing to sift through them to find a selection that deserved to be archived for future reference.
    Maybe that was already done before being purged

    Although that would of been better I wouldn't of minded if SI simply let everyone know about it some time before they all went. At least then I could of made my own copies of anything I thought was worthy of keeping.
    We usually do but I think in this case it had to be done pretty quickly as we're testing a few things out behind the scenes.

  52. #1952
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    I'd suggest a way to navigate to all the other forums easily. A sidebar would be the most obvious option, but gets a from me, as it clogs up the page. How about all the forums such as T&T, LLM, etc. become sub-forums to GD, i.e. they are linked in the GD in a similar way to threads are stickied. Whether it is possible, I don't know, but that's my suggestion.

    I use the "Go" dropdown box at the top of each page to navigate to the different forums and my profile. I don't think enough people know about this - it's quite a useful little button.

  53. #1953
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    Originally posted by NepentheZ:
    I'm not sure if thats a stab at me or an actual response...
    It was an actual response. Although on the surface your ideas might suit someone who uses the forum as you do, it wouldn't work for others, who want different things from the forum. Having the different sections makes it easier for the 'consumer' to identify the areas they want and equally, the areas they want to avoid. Taking up your suggestions would make navigating the bits you want from the bits you don't a nightmare...

    @canvey: Having some of the forums as sub-fora of GD isn't really workable either. Again, using LLM as an example - it isn't a place to ask more specific questions about lower league teams, it's an area devoted to a very specific style of play and as we see from Nep's statement (what he read about LLM), that already leads to misunderstandings, so putting it under the umbrella of GD could cause even more of this and that's something this particular thread was created to try to avoid. Stories don't make much sense as a sub-fora of General Discussion either imo. And again if we want to avoid GD being just place to redirect others from then having the design of the forum almost implicitly stating that's what it is, rather than a place where everything not covered by the other forums is discussed, then it would become even more messy, disorganised and chaotic than it is now.

    Reorganising the forum might be a good idea, but in a different way

  54. #1954
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    What about a thread having to be 'okayed' by a mod before it can be viewable to anyone else? I don't know how difficult this would be to implement, plus the fact that you'd always have to had a mod around to do this.

    Plus I suppose the mod could be biased towards topics/users. Maybe this isn't the best idea ever but I thought I'd share it nonetheless (also, I am currently dead bored!)

  55. #1955
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    Originally posted by goodzorr_avfc:
    What about a thread having to be 'okayed' by a mod before it can be viewable to anyone else? I don't know how difficult this would be to implement, plus the fact that you'd always have to had a mod around to do this.

    Plus I suppose the mod could be biased towards topics/users. Maybe this isn't the best idea ever but I thought I'd share it nonetheless (also, I am currently dead bored!)
    This system was implemented over in the challenges/sign-up forum briefly.

    The problem is that most people sign up to the forums to post a question. It would be annoying to want to ask a question only for your thread not be posted straight away. That user would probably go elsewhere (i.e. to another forum) to get the answer that they want; rather than waiting for their thread to be 'okayed'.

  56. #1956
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    Ok so heres the deal.

    There's a lot of topics in this forum that are in the wrong place, I think we've established that, but why does it become necessary to seemingly single out specific topics for moderation, and let others pass by.

    I'm being bitter, sure. But let me show a few examples...

    Jimbo's thread

    Clearly suitable for the bugs forum, as its a problem with the filters on the squad selection screen, and a conversation about it breaks out. Jimbo is more than aware that this belongs in the bugs forum, and without actually looking in there, I'm pretty sure that this IS in the bugs forum. (Knowing how Jimbo is). Thats besides the point. The thread has been open long enough for it to be noted as for the bugs forum, and possibly even locked, to stop the thread remaining "on topic"

    then we have... My thread, about the "adept as playing as a player" thread.

    Sure, there wasn't much in the opening post, but I feel the screen shot warranted what needed to be said. I could have easily just left the screeny out, written it all down in text and let conversation break out. My thread, gets the old "should be in the bugs forum "in its home" from Gripper. Now, I'm not upset with the fact he told me it should be in the bugs forum, but the sarcastic twist in the comment wasn't needed. Also, if it deserves not to be in the GD forum, why on earth didn't you lock it, as a few others have been locked, to get them off the first page, and keep the GD to GD.

    Its upsetting that, a moderator is only being select in the topics he chooses to moderate. As I said, I'm not unhappy he told me where to go, but you're giving one rule for one, and one rule for another, in more than one occasion. (I could find 100 more examples if you want me to).

  57. #1957
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    NepentheZ. I do totally understand what you're saying in general and possibly agree.

    But in this case your thread is clearly a bug and a bug only, there is no discussion. Although Jimbo's thread, it is possibly a bug yes, but I feel that there is some debate for discussion over how the filter system may be improved in the future also.


    I'm not sure how others view this but that's what I think.

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    Originally posted by aaberdeenn:
    NepentheZ. I do totally understand what you're saying in general and possibly agree.

    But in this case your thread is clearly a bug and a bug only, there is no discussion. Although Jimbo's thread, it is possibly a bug yes, but I feel that there is some debate for discussion over how the filter system may be improved in the future also.


    I'm not sure how others view this but that's what I think.
    But equally the 'bug' was worded as such to leave it open to a lot of banter. Fair enough, that can quickly descend into drivel, but if you're not allowed to have a laugh...

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    Okay, fair point.

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    but still..

  61. #1961
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    Originally posted by Ter:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">On that subject, it seems a REAL disaster that all the old threads have been lost to the abyss. I know most of it was tripe but there was some gold in them there threads and SI have missed a trick by not saving some of them. I would personally have been willing to sift through them to find a selection that deserved to be archived for future reference.
    Maybe that was already done before being purged </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Ter - If so, that's a significant piece of information that hasn't been communicated to the community!

    I don't mean to be negative, but I've really been struggling with my emotional reaction to the purge. I've been very unmotivated to contribute to the community since then. I know there's a fallacy in this reasoning, but to some extent I've been battling thoughts of "Why put effort into the community - essentially contributing unpaid work to SI - if that effort is discarded like yesterday's trash without 'any' appreciation."

    (And yes, I know that I've gotten a lot of enjoyment from the discussions, and that many members of the community have expressed appreciation for my contributions .. but logic doesn't work on emotions!)

    If you're in a position to say "Yes, we have archived some things and will be making them available in some way in future," that would go a long ways towards helping my morale, personally.

  62. #1962
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    NepentheZ.

    I often agree with you but I do think that you are being a tad over-sensitive in this case.

    Yours is a bug and a quirky little one at that.

    Mine is a bug, but not everyone views it as a bug.

    To be honest I hadn't posted it in the bugs forum, (apologies but I'm a little out of practice with the forums at the mo), and as Si says it is in hand I will leave it with him .

    With regards to the Mod'ing, I think you need to remember that they are only human. I personally think that the comment made in your thread wasn't the best, but maybe he called it as he saw it and had never noticed my thread as he usually doesn't get out from the.... (is it Graphics he does?) andyway.

    Should they both have been posted in the bugs forum? Probably. Are they the type of threads that we are trying to get posted in the bugs forum rather than in GQ? Yeah, they probably are. But let's not make a mountain out of a molehill.

    You got a bit of a snooty comment and I didn't. Tomorrow or next week it will be the other way round. Maybe what we should learn from this is....

    (A) What to post in the relevant forums.

    (B) Don't take the written word to literally. Words spoken can often be made to come across oh so differently than they appear when they are written down.

    Maybe a would have made all the difference .

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    I don't see any problem with discussing bugs in here, sometimes you need to just to assure yourself it is a bug.
    Also bugs have ramifictions, workarounds (sometimes) and do generate discussion on related aspects.

    In the bugs forum they just want the bug report and supporting evidence, not all the discussion which often accompanies it.

    Bugs very often belong in both forums imho.

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    Originally posted by Jimbokav1971:
    (B) Don't take the written word to literally. Words spoken can often be made to come across oh so differently than they appear when they are written down.

    Maybe a would have made all the difference .
    I think Jimbo has hit the nail on the head, too often people get offended by posts that may have been entirely innocent. This is obviously noones fault as text is entirely devoid of inflection and tone, both of which are used in spoken language to infer how a statement is intended.

    If you look halfway up this page we have a perfect case of Nepenthez miss interpreting a post by Elrawkum (or asking for clarification).

    Personally i try and look at posts in a positive light, but i can sympathise with nepenthez as you will often interpret a post based on your current mood. i.e. if i'm irritated i assume others are.

    Due to the fact i have a fairly "abrupt" manner of posting, i quite often feel the need to cover my posts with smileys so noone takes offense.

    Good point by kriss regarding bugs also. I think that due to the fact nepenthez' thread was not closed, it does imply that gripper may have been posting in a "tongue-in-cheek" manner, as i'm sure the mods would treat bugs in the way kriss states - they can be relevant to GQ.

    Now, just so i don't upset any one

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    I have noticed a massive different of late on these forums. I myself was the target of some idoit who thought it would be fun to have a go at me and my family taking it just a little too far. I was happy to see that a mod stepped in quickly and banned this person.
    But it's not only the mods that have a responsibility here, Us as members also have to do our fair share.

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    Originally posted by Frankie 7:
    But it's not only the mods that have a responsibility here, Us as members also have to do our fair share.
    Unfortunately not all the mods agree with this.

    wwfan sadi something to the effect of "leave it to the mods" - i'll post the link when i've found it.

    In short a guy was abusive, we asked him not to be, rather than appologise he claimed that F followed by two **s and ending in a K wasn't being abusive - or words to that affect. I don't see an awful lot wrong with forum users telling someone not to be abusive, and i know some mods agree with this POV, out of interest what is the official mod position regarding forum users reprimanding those who breach rules?

  67. #1967
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    Voila

    "To non-mods, please let the mods do the jobs rather than trying to police the forum yourselves. We do eventually get around to closing threads. Openly criticizing somebody on a forum is equally as bad as posting bad language or derogatory comments. They both equally contribute to abusive flame wars and affect the quality of the forums. If someone posts something you don't like, just ignore it and let the mods do their job."

    Now i can see the point he was trying to make, but i would like clarification on what the mods would like us to do, or not to do for that matter. Yet i fail to see any flaiming in the thread linked, nor any downside to forum users asking other people not to swear...

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    Originally posted by Ched:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Frankie 7:
    But it's not only the mods that have a responsibility here, Us as members also have to do our fair share.
    Unfortunately not all the mods agree with this.

    wwfan sadi something to the effect of "leave it to the mods" - i'll post the link when i've found it.

    In short a guy was abusive, we asked him not to be, rather than appologise he claimed that F followed by two **s and ending in a K wasn't being abusive - or words to that affect. I don't see an awful lot wrong with forum users telling someone not to be abusive, and i know some mods agree with this POV, out of interest what is the official mod position regarding forum users reprimanding those who breach rules? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I am not saying we reprimand but maybe help them understand. Show them the rules. Like when you get members continually asking for the smae thing over and over again, Maybe instead of members jumping down throats, We could just say Hey look at the rules, or whatver the case maybe. We also as members should pay more attention to therules ourselves as we are all guilty of ignoring them from time to time.

  69. #1969
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    Originally posted by Frankie 7:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Frankie 7:
    But it's not only the mods that have a responsibility here, Us as members also have to do our fair share.
    Unfortunately not all the mods agree with this.

    wwfan sadi something to the effect of "leave it to the mods" - i'll post the link when i've found it.

    In short a guy was abusive, we asked him not to be, rather than appologise he claimed that F followed by two **s and ending in a K wasn't being abusive - or words to that affect. I don't see an awful lot wrong with forum users telling someone not to be abusive, and i know some mods agree with this POV, out of interest what is the official mod position regarding forum users reprimanding those who breach rules? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I am not saying we reprimand but maybe help them understand. Show them the rules. Like when you get members continually asking for the smae thing over and over again, Maybe instead of members jumping down throats, We could just say Hey look at the rules, or whatver the case maybe. We also as members should pay more attention to therules ourselves as we are all guilty of ignoring them from time to time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Sorry, poor word use, i did mean advise, rather than reprimand. I personally think "please don't swear - this forum is for all age groups." is perfectly acceptable, although granted i may have gone on a bit later....why people don't just appologise is beyind me.

    But yes, advising others of rules should be encouraged, i think wwfans POV of "If someone posts something you don't like, just ignore it and let the mods do their job." puts too much of a burden on the mods, for something that was a minor infraction in the linked case.

    NB: Forgive me for harping on, but i only have the one example, i'm not having a go, it's just that i have limited material to refer to.

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    Originally posted by Ched:
    Now i can see the point he was trying to make, but i would like clarification on what the mods would like us to do, or not to do for that matter. Yet i fail to see any flaiming in the thread linked, nor any downside to forum users asking other people not to swear...
    While the intentions are good, unfortunately the mentality of most users means any sort of advice on their behaviour leads to the sort of reactions seen in that thread.

    Best thing to do is report the thread for swearing, or ignore it completely (which is what I did).

  71. #1971
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    Originally posted by Ackter:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:
    Now i can see the point he was trying to make, but i would like clarification on what the mods would like us to do, or not to do for that matter. Yet i fail to see any flaiming in the thread linked, nor any downside to forum users asking other people not to swear...
    While the intentions are good, unfortunately the mentality of most users means any sort of advice on their behaviour leads to the sort of reactions seen in that thread.

    Best thing to do is report the thread for swearing, or ignore it completely (which is what I did). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    In that case yes it was always going to go that way because of the user and his language right at the beginning. But i still say members do have to help staff sometimes. Not saying police the forums or anything but point in the right direction in some cases. But i suppose when those cases are the right cases is another problem. But i have seen a improvment since a few mods have been added and i hope more will be coming in soon.

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    For cases like pointing out more appropriate forums then there's no problem, as long as you post it while walking on eggshells in some cases ( ), but pointing out swearing is usually taken as an attack and just isn't worth the hassle.

    I don't agree with the current stance on closing threads due to abbreviated/condensed saying like "wtf*" as I think it's completely harmless but, contrary to popular belief (), I don't own the forums so will go with it.

    *apologies for using it here, but was needed as an example.

  73. #1973
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    I do agree that some threads are closed a little premature here. I have seen this and have been involved while helping other people and had thier threads closed when i was half way through helping them. I do agree with you there also Ackter. I see no harm in some of the threads being chosen to be closed.

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    Originally posted by Ched:
    Voila

    "To non-mods, please let the mods do the jobs rather than trying to police the forum yourselves. We do eventually get around to closing threads. Openly criticizing somebody on a forum is equally as bad as posting bad language or derogatory comments. They both equally contribute to abusive flame wars and affect the quality of the forums. If someone posts something you don't like, just ignore it and let the mods do their job."

    Now i can see the point he was trying to make, but i would like clarification on what the mods would like us to do, or not to do for that matter. Yet i fail to see any flaiming in the thread linked, nor any downside to forum users asking other people not to swear...

    Everyone would, I suggest , agree that this is without doubt the best method of controlling the forums.

    This however falls down when there are long periods of time when there are no Mods online and even reporting a problem thread takes many hours to be actioned.

    It has been a lot better recently but the quantity as well as the quality of the moderating is still an issue. Ter has promised action in this thread and the sooner it is implemented the better IMO.

  75. #1975
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    Originally posted by FrazT:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:
    Voila

    "To non-mods, please let the mods do the jobs rather than trying to police the forum yourselves. We do eventually get around to closing threads. Openly criticizing somebody on a forum is equally as bad as posting bad language or derogatory comments. They both equally contribute to abusive flame wars and affect the quality of the forums. If someone posts something you don't like, just ignore it and let the mods do their job."

    Now i can see the point he was trying to make, but i would like clarification on what the mods would like us to do, or not to do for that matter. Yet i fail to see any flaiming in the thread linked, nor any downside to forum users asking other people not to swear...

    Everyone would, I suggest , agree that this is without doubt the best method of controlling the forums.

    This however falls down when there are long periods of time when there are no Mods online and even reporting a problem thread takes many hours to be actioned.

    It has been a lot better recently but the quantity as well as the quality of the moderating is still an issue. Ter has promised action in this thread and the sooner it is implemented the better IMO. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    WHS

  76. #1976
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    all these suggestion threads in GQ forum which usually don't contain more than 2 or 3 sentences with lack of any in-depth discussion really belong to wishlist thread!! and therefore should be closed.

  77. #1977
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    Originally posted by Mitja:
    all these suggestion threads in GQ forum which usually don't contain more than 2 or 3 sentences with lack of any in-depth discussion really belong to wishlist thread!! and therefore should be closed.
    This is in the forum header:

    Suggestions for future versions
    Individual ideas on one subject should be posted in their own topic. Please name your topics sensibly and give an indication of what it is about. If you want to list ideas then please use this Wishlist topic
    That suggests that SI prefer single ideas in separate threads and lists of ideas in the wishlist thread.

  78. #1978
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    it's a lot of work to do, so I can understand if they won't be closed.

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    Something that might help the forums be driven forward a little bit is more contribution from the SI guys themselves. I don't mean in a randomly responding to threads sense, but a starting discussion sense.

    For example - the developer for the training module wants to collate ideas in a single place - why not start an "Official Training" thread in which he regularly contributes?

  80. #1980
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    We have done this in the past Dave and it's something we'll probably do again in the future.

    It's not likely to happen in the near future though as we're well past the ideas stage now.

  81. #1981
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    That's me. Always late to the party

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    Originally posted by Ter:
    We have done this in the past Dave and it's something we'll probably do again in the future.

    It's not likely to happen in the near future though as we're well past the ideas stage now.
    Ter,

    I read somewhere on here that we are moving to a new forum software, i think it was an SI employee who said it, is this true?

    Thanks

  83. #1983
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    We'll have more information on what is happening with the future of the forums and community soon. I don't quite know the full details myself.

  84. #1984
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    Must say, the forums have been very quite the last 7-10 days. Usually there are plenty new topics / old topics resurfaced each time I log on, but now, I'm getting 4 day old topics on page 1 of GD.! The amount of users logging on has dived, and the forum in general just seems a little dull.

    May just be the right time for a little spruce up.


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    I have to say in response to Miles' original post that, being relatively new to this community I have been suprised at the ironic lack of community-like behaviour.
    However, saying that, I am certain it is only a minority, and that a fair ammount of this questionable behaviour is only in response to the childish antics of others. I'd say there are a few people on these forums who just get a kick out of frustrating the more mature users. They know who they are.

  86. #1986
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    Originally posted by NepentheZ:
    Must say, the forums have been very quite the last 7-10 days. Usually there are plenty new topics / old topics resurfaced each time I log on, but now, I'm getting 4 day old topics on page 1 of GD.! The amount of users logging on has dived, and the forum in general just seems a little dull.

    May just be the right time for a little spruce up.

    TBF it is a considerable few months now since FM08 was released and a considerable few months before anything to do with FM09 so the forum is bound to be less active.

    I would agree with you though that it is all seeming a little dull, people are just bored now and so don't have much motivation to come and log on (including myself) which results in the forum getting even more dull. It suits SI to have as many people interested in the game as possible so perhaps it is time for something right now just to get people interested again. I understand they are busy but they have been busy many times before and still managed to stay active on these forums. It is seeming to me that even they are no longer bothered about the forums, infact I have hardly seen anything from SI in the last few months except for Ter, that probably isn't true but it's the impression I'm getting and it doesn't encourage me to keep visiting. A promise of changes in the "near future" is no longer enough, people are sick of just waiting for that and so they are leaving, sadly many will not be coming back.

  87. #1987
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    Originally posted by LFC Lloydy:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:
    Must say, the forums have been very quite the last 7-10 days. Usually there are plenty new topics / old topics resurfaced each time I log on, but now, I'm getting 4 day old topics on page 1 of GD.! The amount of users logging on has dived, and the forum in general just seems a little dull.

    May just be the right time for a little spruce up.

    TBF it is a considerable few months now since FM08 was released and a considerable few months before anything to do with FM09 so the forum is bound to be less active.

    I would agree with you though that it is all seeming a little dull, people are just bored now and so don't have much motivation to come and log on (including myself) which results in the forum getting even more dull. It suits SI to have as many people interested in the game as possible so perhaps it is time for something right now just to get people interested again. I understand they are busy but they have been busy many times before and still managed to stay active on these forums. It is seeming to me that even they are no longer bothered about the forums, infact I have hardly seen anything from SI in the last few months except for Ter, that probably isn't true but it's the impression I'm getting and it doesn't encourage me to keep visiting. A promise of changes in the "near future" is no longer enough, people are sick of just waiting for that and so they are leaving, sadly many will not be coming back. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    A look around already shows that S have been working on the forums just with the work gone into the Fm live forums. I don't mean just the cosmetic look of the forum either.

  88. #1988
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    Originally posted by dudester:

    A look around already shows that S have been working on the forums just with the work gone into the Fm live forums. I don't mean just the cosmetic look of the forum either.
    OK, fair enough, they have changed the colour scheme and banner for the FM Live forum. TBH I haven't had a look there for ages as it has been almost dead for so long.

    But what are the non-cosmetic changes you hint at? I am struggling to see much difference. Maybe there is some change which I am missing but by the fact that I am missing it my point still stands.

    There doesn't seem to be anything to encourage people to keep visiting the forums because they have been allowed to start dying out, I know I am not the only one bored of just waiting for a change. It's like the forum is in purgatory and for me there is no sign of leaving.

    Given how long now SI has said they are making changes it is about time they described them. They obviously have an idea by now and distancing themselves from us by refusing to talk about it is quite disrespectful IMO to those who have contributed to this thread in order to help them.

    I sound harsh but it is only what I think, I don't like seeing the forums becoming like they are and want to see it change for the better. I want change so that everyone can benefit and if that is still a long way off, the curtousy to keep everyone informed would be nice.

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    I for one hope that the changes made are both positive and enhancing.

    I think we should trust those that have a vested interest in the forum and support them!

  90. #1990
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    I'm looking forward to any changes that help cut down on the quantity of crap, pointless & repetitive posts and/or abusive posts towards other forum users and moderators.

  91. #1991
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    Originally posted by heathxxx:
    I'm looking forward to any changes that help cut down on the quantity of crap, pointless & repetitive posts and/or abusive posts towards other forum users and moderators.
    I second this motion!

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    I spent a bit of time lurking around these forums maybe half a decade ago. It's interesting to come back after such a long period and find the same names, the same style of posting and the same style of modding. I guess that's a credit to the community built around SI's games, but nevertheless it has given me the impression somewhat of walking into a time warp, particular with the same clunky forum software being used.

    Looking around this forum, the general maturity seems to be a bit low, but it is a computer game forums after all so the average age of the users I'm sure is quite low and the ratio of argumentative teenage boys to sane tactile individuals relatively high.

    I think if I had a free reign to moderate these forums I'd take an attitude of no ******** at all with anything non-constructive, confrontational or illegible immediately deleted/closed. SI probably can't afford to be that authoritative in their moderation though, considering the intended audience of their product.

    That's not to say that computer game communities can't be mature of course (if anyone plays WoW - Elitist Jerk's forums and their posting rules are a great example of this.

    But anyway, as a mere 22 year old, some of the posts/threads I've encountered on these forums since registering ~2 days ago are enough to make my eyes bleed and make me want to run screaming away from these forums. The lack of an edit - or at least a preview function - confounds this!

  93. #1993
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    Edit is an option, unfortunately it is abused so that someone posts abuse and then edits it.

    And us mods dont have enough time to review audit logs in these cases

  94. #1994
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    I'd never abuse it tbh.

  95. #1995
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    Yastian - I asked for a "preview post" option in a thread a while back, but was told the software doesn't hold the option to allocate one. A shame really. Hopefully the 'changes' that are happening soon to the forums is a change of software. God forbid.

  96. #1996
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    Perhaps a more liberal use of temp bans would do the trick - ie a warning comes with a 24 hour posting ban. Not sure how feasible that would be though - sounds as if bans have to be manually implemented. There's gotta be forum software out there that's a bit more flexible/automated when it comes to things like that.

    Also there's the question of banter - I'm sure SI don't want a GQ forum that's completely devoid of banter - it's just a question of where the line is drawn. Perhaps that line could be made a bit more obvious and strictly enforced though.

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    I'm sure the amount of traffic this site generates severely limits the choices when it comes to forum software though (although the majority of the traffic seems directed at the Off Topic forum, heh - 277 members online, 127 of those in OT).

  98. #1998
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    Originally posted by heathxxx:
    I'm looking forward to any changes that help cut down on the quantity of crap, pointless & repetitive posts and/or abusive posts towards other forum users and moderators.
    Can you imagine a facility that checks the post..to see if its crap and then says it can't be posted cos its crap. And if you're asking a similar question..it checks and tells you to stop being lazy and do a search. Now that would be a Godsend

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    A Euro 2008 forum

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    Hi

    After reading the fist 5 pages of this thread and seeing some of the topics you are not supposed to mention, it dawned on me that I am probably quite ignorant of the forum rules, so I decided to try and read them.

    I will be honest and say that this thread has 34 pages of comments and I don't have the time to read all 34 pages, so if what I am suggesting has been mentioned elsewhere, I do apologise.

    First problem, where to find said rules.

    I thought that there used to be a fixed thread at the top of the forum that contained the rules. I could not find it, so maybe I was wrong.

    I did find a "Please Read" before posting on the Tactics Forum and something similiar on the Bugs Forum.

    A little bit of searching and I found a hyperlink to forum rules\house rules, but after reading the content of these rules, I realised that they did not cover many of the topics I thought were banned from discussion. One obvious topic was, No CD Cracks.

    In effect, what I am suggesting is that detailed forum rules should be more predominately displayed at the top of each seperate discussion forum.


    To change the subject, I usually only come onto these forums when I have a problem. The first thing I do is search to see if there is already an answer in a old thread.

    The problem I find is that I am using 8.0.2 and the possible solutions date back several years. I usually refine my search to the last year, hoping for a solution more relevant to the version of FM that I am using.

    I suspect that ohers will find similiar problems searching for answers. Perhaps a fixed thread at the forum on how to search and a filter to elimate answers not relevant to the version of FM being searched for. That way people might be encouraged to look up solutions to problems and not ask the same questions over and over.

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