Unofficial: Unrealistic Thread FM11 - state your suggestions / improvements here

Just thought id start one to separate what appears to be bugs and unrealistic features in the game.

People are getting mixed up with non-realism of the game assuming its a bug. Not necessarily the case.

How about you put down your suggestions here on what part(s) of the game you feel are unrealistic and could be improved, that way SI just need to look at one thread instead of sieving through hundreds. I'm sure they have noted down a few things already, but no harm in collating everything. I'm not talking about ideas, only areas of the game you perceive to be unrealistic and why and how it can be improved.

It appears from what I've been reading the Match engine 3D needs some improvements to bring in more realistic movements and features.

DO NOT put down any bugs here

DO NOT list ideas for added features - obviously you may want to explain how an unrealistic feature can be improved

ONLY list areas that you perceive to be UNREALISTIC

To make it easier on our eyes to read, and SI's you can use this template:

Unrealistic Area:

The problem:

Improvements:

Example:

Unrealistic Area: 3D Match- Player movements.

The problem: Players appear to be running side ways all too often.

Improvements: This needs to be toned down a little to show a realistic movement from players. Perhaps some more animation is required.

Here is the thread from last year: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/194539-Unofficial-Unrealistic-Thread-state-your-suggestions-improvements-here?highlight=unrealistic+thread

Here i'll start it off...

Unrealistic Area: Player's moaning too often when they get fined after playing horrendously bad.

The problem: When a player plays horrendously bad in a match and you fine him fairly or you continue issuing him warnings but does not take it in then you fine him they start moaning all the time and constantly knock on your door.

Improvements: Needs to be toned down. Some player blatantly deserve to get fined or warned and it does not all the time automatically deserve a moaner who wants to keep on complaining.

Since FM12 is approaching thought I'd remind them of these ideas from fm10 AND fm11.

It's unrealistic when a player gets a red card and the commentary says he's been 'Ushered down the tunnel'

What flipping tunnel

It's unrealistic when a player gets a red card and the commentary says he's been 'Ushered down the tunnel'

What flipping tunnel

lol haha Some aspects of the commentary are laughable.

Here i'll start it off...

Unrealistic Area: Player's moaning too often when they get fined after playing horrendously bad.

The problem: When a player plays horrendously bad in a match and you fine him fairly or you continue issuing him warnings but does not take it in then you fine him they start moaning all the time and constantly knock on your door.

Improvements: Needs to be toned down. Some player blatantly deserve to get fined or warned and it does not all the time automatically deserve a moaner who wants to keep on complaining.

I'm probably showing my ignorance here, but is it commonplace for players to be fined for playing badly?

I'm probably showing my ignorance here, but is it commonplace for players to be fined for playing badly?

It is in my team...

Well, OK maybe not... Most times it's a warning, but I'm likely to fine very poor performances(below 5.8 or so) as well as bollock the player in private chat! Commonplace is relative... I guess I dish out maybe 10 fines per season for poor performance, I'd say that's fairly common..

I meant in real life football. Do players really get fined for playing badly?

I'd be surprised if the PFA stood for that.

I meant in real life football. Do players really get fined for playing badly?

I'd be surprised if the PFA stood for that.

I was under the impression that they were, however on this wiki it says "On 17 September 2009, after Dinamo lost 2–0 at home to Anderlecht in Europa League, Mandžukić was controversially fined €100k after being accused for poor performance.[2] It was the first time in the history of the club that the player was financially fined." So maybe it's an option that isn't often exercised?

I couldn't find any other references to player's being fined IRL... but maybe my search skills are rusty

Unrealistic Area: Transfers

The problem: Playing as Wolverhampton Wonderers i should not be able to buy the biggest talents in the world like Neymar, Paulo Henrique etc. Getting good players is way to easy in this game. I had a team full of world class players at the start of my 3rd season and i could probably had them sooner if i were even more active on the transfers. Im sure alot of kids like it this way but in my opinion its just unreal and takes the fun out of the game.

Improvements: Make world class players/talents alot harder to get and make the board on low-medium reputation clubs sell world class players more often if you somehow obtained one.

Also randomize the asking prices/contracts/player values so we will not always have to buy the same players. The way it is now i keep buying the same players in every safe because there are a handful of players which are very cheap yet very good. I would be stupid not to buy them! It's so boring buying them though and takes the fun out of the game.

Here i'll start it off...

Unrealistic Area: Player's moaning too often when they get fined after playing horrendously bad.

The problem: When a player plays horrendously bad in a match and you fine him fairly or you continue issuing him warnings but does not take it in then you fine him they start moaning all the time and constantly knock on your door.

Improvements: Needs to be toned down. Some player blatantly deserve to get fined or warned and it does not all the time automatically deserve a moaner who wants to keep on complaining.

Completely agree with this. Imagine having a bad day at work in any other job, being called into your boss's office and being told that because you underperformed for a day and/or made a mistake, he was not going to pay you for the whole week. Naturally, you'd take it on the chin, accept his reasons and walk out the door with a smile on your face. Long-term, your motivation for working with and your respect for him would go through the roof as well. No way you'd moan or start disliking him.

Completely agree with this. Imagine having a bad day at work in any other job, being called into your boss's office and being told that because you underperformed for a day and/or made a mistake, he was not going to pay you for the whole week. Naturally, you'd take it on the chin, accept his reasons and walk out the door with a smile on your face. Long-term, your motivation for working with and your respect for him would go through the roof as well. No way you'd moan or start disliking him.

hahahaha gave me a good laugh on a monday morning!

Completely agree with this. Imagine having a bad day at work in any other job, being called into your boss's office and being told that because you underperformed for a day and/or made a mistake, he was not going to pay you for the whole week. Naturally, you'd take it on the chin, accept his reasons and walk out the door with a smile on your face. Long-term, your motivation for working with and your respect for him would go through the roof as well. No way you'd moan or start disliking him.

Funny as your anecdote is it does raise a question: if, as you and others have correctly argued fining players for poor performance is unrealistic, why is there an option for it? I'd say REMOVE THE FLUFF SI! If this game is to be more realistic it's hard to argue for total freedom on the transfer market or being able to fine your players. Those are usually administrative tasks.

balance between realism and fun is the key, not having control over who your team is signing would not be fun in my eyes, but everyone has their own opinion on it.

Funny as your anecdote is it does raise a question: if, as you and others have correctly argued fining players for poor performance is unrealistic, why is there an option for it? I'd say REMOVE THE FLUFF SI! If this game is to be more realistic it's hard to argue for total freedom on the transfer market or being able to fine your players. Those are usually administrative tasks.

I'm not arguing that fining players is unrealistic. FM has to give the users options to make terrible decisions as well as excellent ones or it wouldn't be much of a game. There's a big difference been unrealistic and bad management.

I suggest you watch Orient: Club for a Fiver and marvel at the motivational genius on display. That is what FM has to be able to simulate at one end of the managerial spectrum.

I'm not arguing that fining players is unrealistic. FM has to give the users options to make terrible decisions as well as excellent ones or it wouldn't be much of a game. There's a big difference been unrealistic and bad management.

I suggest you watch Orient: Club for a Fiver and marvel at the motivational genius on display. That is what FM has to be able to simulate at one end of the managerial spectrum.

"Sold for a Fiver" LOL, classic. Simulate that SI ! I have another issue, it is a one-off but there seem to be a lot of different one offs that niggle a bit. This is it: I was playtesting a 442 tactic with minimal pre KO variations from the "default" settings, tweaking in game to suit the Ass Man's advice. As Crewe v Torquay I lost at home 2-1, not a big deal, realistic result I guess and the stats were even - but I had no fit MR so I decided to keep the tactic and write off that position by playing a youth player with promising if unspectacular stats, just because he could play that position. He played a blinder, my best player. I just cannot think of a real life example of this. Reminds me of earlier versions where you could play a DC at SC and he would get a hatrick. Didnt happen every game but it happened TOO often.

Unrealistic Area: Loaning out players

The problem: Limited options when offering player for loan.

Improvements: More options. Selecting which leagues you want to offer players to. Selecting which status you will only accept offers from (i.e valuable player and not a back up). E.g:

Offer player to: Championship

Squad status: Valuable first team player

One simple thing that could be done to improve the loans is to include the proposed squad status on the transfer centre page, at least that way we could mass reject the unsuitable offers instead of having to go through them one by one.

Unrealistic Area: Loaning out players

The problem: Limited options when offering player for loan.

Improvements: More options. Selecting which leagues you want to offer players to. Selecting which status you will only accept offers from (i.e valuable player and not a back up). E.g:

Offer player to: Championship

Squad status: Valuable first team player

Sounds like a great idea to me, cause i always struggle to find good loan options, and even my affliated clubs are poo and cant apply for anymore for somewere decent to send players.

Unrealistic Area: Transfers

The problem: Playing as Wolverhampton Wonderers i should not be able to buy the biggest talents in the world like Neymar, Paulo Henrique etc. Getting good players is way to easy in this game. I had a team full of world class players at the start of my 3rd season and i could probably had them sooner if i were even more active on the transfers. Im sure alot of kids like it this way but in my opinion its just unreal and takes the fun out of the game.

Improvements: Make world class players/talents alot harder to get and make the board on low-medium reputation clubs sell world class players more often if you somehow obtained one.

Also randomize the asking prices/contracts/player values so we will not always have to buy the same players. The way it is now i keep buying the same players in every safe because there are a handful of players which are very cheap yet very good. I would be stupid not to buy them! It's so boring buying them though and takes the fun out of the game.

Couldnt have hit the nail anymore harder on the head, i find it unrealistic when i look at a persons wolves team and see he has signed the worlds best young talent for 35m in the third season, even if wolves won the league 2 seasons on the bounce they wouldnt go out and spend that much on a new striker, you should be forced to look for players coming from the championship etc

like they do in real life.

One simple thing that could be done to improve the loans is to include the proposed squad status on the transfer centre page, at least that way we could mass reject the unsuitable offers instead of having to go through them one by one.

Please, for the love of god, introduce this. The thing I hate most about starting a new season is having to trawl through 100-150 loan offers one by one to find the ones that want my players as first teamers.

Please, for the love of god, introduce this. The thing I hate most about starting a new season is having to trawl through 100-150 loan offers one by one to find the ones that want my players as first teamers.

It would help if there was even more info in the news item. It tells you the team but it doesnt tell you what division they are in. Even that would help a bit so you could immediately reject it from a team in too low of a league. Its hard enough knowing what league teams are in now never mind 10 years into the game.

It would help if there was even more info in the news item. It tells you the team but it doesnt tell you what division they are in. Even that would help a bit so you could immediately reject it from a team in too low of a league. Its hard enough knowing what league teams are in now never mind 10 years into the game.

Ideally I'd like to see the proposed squad status, league and competitions the club is in, level of training facilities and the name of the manager.

About whether a team or player gets fined or not in real life when they play badly, whenever Dynamo Kiev lose the whole team gets fined...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/13775725.stm

Ideally I'd like to see the proposed squad status, league and competitions the club is in, level of training facilities and the name of the manager.

All of this information is already in the game

It's incredibly unrealistic when managing Barcelona and because the AI "knows your tactics" it'll suddenly dominate a match. I, along with every La Liga and Champions League manager know what Barcelona's tactics are going to be this season... I accept that if you know how they'll play you can maybe try and focus on a certain area so that there will be minimum damage but, teams like Valladolid shouldn't suddenly have like 10 shots to Barcelona's 2 and have 60% possession simply because "they know your tactics". Tactics aren't crucial in football. The players are and that is something that FM11 has forgot and it makes for a very infuriating game. I shouldn't have to change tactics about 3 or 4 times a season when I'm the best team in the world with the best players in the world just so that I can successfully see of cannon fodder sides. Get a grip.

11 Lionel Messi's against 11 Titus Brambles but because Bramble knows how Messi will play he stands a chance? Utter nonsense.

GET THE FINGER OUT.

Selling players needs major work done too. Barcelona put Lionel Messi on the transfer list and ask for 35M... do they have any success in selling him whilst getting the price they put on his head? Of course not, not in the world of Football Manager! Instead, they'll be bombarded with calls from mediocre sides offering a loan and a fee of 775k and a potential future fee of 35. Potential. Or, alternatively, they'll be bombarded with clubs offering 0 up front and 35M over 48 months. Man City will come in for him and try and haggle with Barca.... hmmm, we'll give you 20M... take it or leave it.

Sort it out. Make the game realistic the way it used to be. It's nigh on impossible to sell players in this game even when you offer them to clubs at a more than reasonable price. Obviously one of the developers gets turned on by loans and monthly installment deals.

It's incredibly unrealistic when managing Barcelona and because the AI "knows your tactics" it'll suddenly dominate a match. I, along with every La Liga and Champions League manager know what Barcelona's tactics are going to be this season... I accept that if you know how they'll play you can maybe try and focus on a certain area so that there will be minimum damage but, teams like Valladolid shouldn't suddenly have like 10 shots to Barcelona's 2 and have 60% possession simply because "they know your tactics". Tactics aren't crucial in football. The players are and that is something that FM11 has forgot and it makes for a very infuriating game. I shouldn't have to change tactics about 3 or 4 times a season when I'm the best team in the world with the best players in the world just so that I can successfully see of cannon fodder sides. Get a grip.

11 Lionel Messi's against 11 Titus Brambles but because Bramble knows how Messi will play he stands a chance? Utter nonsense.

GET THE FINGER OUT.

Um...you dont have to change tactics every few seasons. I haven't had to do that.

If 11 Messi's go up against 11 Brambles....I imagine a lot of broken legs would be involved.

It's incredibly unrealistic when managing Barcelona and because the AI "knows your tactics" it'll suddenly dominate a match.

Total nonsense. The AI doesn't 'know your tactic'.

Tactics aren't crucial in football. The players are and that is something that FM11 has forgot and it makes for a very infuriating game. I shouldn't have to change tactics about 3 or 4 times a season when I'm the best team in the world with the best players in the world just so that I can successfully see of cannon fodder sides. Get a grip.

Equally nonsensical. There are long real world debates about how useful tactics are. Two camps generally emerge. One believes the system is everything and that players should completely bow to its demands, trusting the manager's tactical strategy and following it to a T. The other believes that players are the key and that you should allow the creative players to have their head while supporting them with some workhorses to do the less glamourous stuff. Most managers operate somewhere between the two.

11 Lionel Messi's against 11 Titus Brambles but because Bramble knows how Messi will play he stands a chance? Utter nonsense.

GET THE FINGER OUT.

From your arguments, I would surmise that you don't know how to build a logical tactical strategy and are suffering as a result. The fault lies within you, I'm afraid.

All of this information is already in the game

It takes another 3 to 5 clicks to access this information when it should be available and sortable through the news item.

Unrealistic problem: the pre-match predictions

the problem: you can be top by ten points and playing at home to a bottom half side and your still predicted to lose!

how to sort it: you tell me! but if man utd were at home to wolves then you wouldnt predict an away win would you?

Unrealistic problem: criticism from opposition manager after a match

the problem: you win 6-0 and they tell you that if your team tried to shoot then they would score more goals

how to solve it: they should admit either your team played well or their team played awful

It takes another 3 to 5 clicks to access this information when it should be available and sortable through the news item.

Why should it? Because you want Arcade Style play? Maybe SI should include a bottom-wiping tool for you too along with an intravenous coffee/alcohol stream so you don't have to strain yourself getting up and fetching another and free pizza from Domino's?

The information is there, if you are too lazy to do your "job" then that's your tough luck. In theory, you should already know what league they play in and who their manager is if you "work" in the profession, it would probably be knowledge the board would expect you to have any way. If you want to be a successful manager then you have to do your research thoroughly, don't do it properly and you'll fail... you want SI to take the "fail" out of the game which would make it pointless to play. I'm pretty sure that RL managers don't just take the word of their assistant/coaches/PA when it comes to any decision they make, they will almost certainly do their own research too to help them make the correct decision.

I'd think that this would definitely be the case when it comes to loaning out good young talent, the manager would no doubt talk at length with the manager of the loaning team - what role he is going to play the player in, what matches, what the training facilities/coaching staff are like, etc... This would be information that the MANAGER would seek HIMSELF, he wouldn't necessarily rely on others to give it him - why should you?

Unrealistic problem: the pre-match predictions

the problem: you can be top by ten points and playing at home to a bottom half side and your still predicted to lose!

how to sort it: you tell me! but if man utd were at home to wolves then you wouldnt predict an away win would you?

Unrealistic problem: criticism from opposition manager after a match

the problem: you win 6-0 and they tell you that if your team tried to shoot then they would score more goals

how to solve it: they should admit either your team played well or their team played awful

Bold - +1 time to get it right SI... it's annoying as hell because the pre-match odds have a big impact on fan/media/player expectations too. Theoretically we should win comfortably cos we're that much better than them, but they have a higher rep so we're going to get stuffed... say what? Come on... sort it out SI!

The other bit is rubbish, I agree... the manager to manager interaction is properly broken, SI should revert to the old way because that worked!

Why should it? Because you want Arcade Style play? Maybe SI should include a bottom-wiping tool for you too along with an intravenous coffee/alcohol stream so you don't have to strain yourself getting up and fetching another and free pizza from Domino's?

The information is there, if you are too lazy to do your "job" then that's your tough luck. In theory, you should already know what league they play in and who their manager is if you "work" in the profession, it would probably be knowledge the board would expect you to have any way. If you want to be a successful manager then you have to do your research thoroughly, don't do it properly and you'll fail... you want SI to take the "fail" out of the game which would make it pointless to play. I'm pretty sure that RL managers don't just take the word of their assistant/coaches/PA when it comes to any decision they make, they will almost certainly do their own research too to help them make the correct decision.

I'd think that this would definitely be the case when it comes to loaning out good young talent, the manager would no doubt talk at length with the manager of the loaning team - what role he is going to play the player in, what matches, what the training facilities/coaching staff are like, etc... This would be information that the MANAGER would seek HIMSELF, he wouldn't necessarily rely on others to give it him - why should you?

Stop with the attitude, it's not conducive to constructive discussion. One more time and I'll report your post.

You seem to think that extracting relevant information and presenting it to the player is a sign of laziness.

I would call that accessibility and user-friendliness of the game.

It's not like this is some ultra secret information that the player is not aware of otherwise and would break the game if made known.

You seem to want to introduce tedium into FM just because "real-life is filled with tedium".

I say bollocks to that; this is a game after all and a certain degree of extraction and user-friendliness is required.

report the post for what?

I find his tone unnecessarily offensive.

report the post for what?

The sarcasm was unnecessary.

SI is a non-human, faceless third party. Criticism, justified or not, of such an "entity" does not open for equally justified or unjustified answers/defense from a human to the critic.

Unrealistic area: The motivation/morale "engine" is so volatile that the AI teams fail to uphold a good form over time, and fail to turn bad form around. This results in an exaggerated amount of relegation candidates going down with virtually no wins during an entire season, and that title candidates - both human and AI - go on prolonged no-win streaks.

Problem (as I see it): Results are always tied together as a trend. In real life, they are not. Morale is always either on the way up or on the way down.

Solution: Morale should be more tied to general happiness rather than to the player's average rating last game. Morale should fluctuate less. Motivation in-match should as a rule be OK, not either nervous/complacent or motivated/fired up: in other words, it should be as difficult and rewarding to have a player motivated in a match as it should be a failure you learn from that he becomes nervous or complacent.

Unrealistic area: Don't see enough players forcing themselves out of your club like Nasri or Ronaldo or Cesc or Tevez.

Problem it is very easy to get to the top and feel settled and the players will keep signing the contracts

Solution: erm make players feel unsettled more easily

Unrealistic are: When you're untop it is very easy to stay there the AI doesn't try and overtake you particularly i have found

Solution: The AI needs to smarten up especially in the transfer market I shoudn't be the only club bidding for Hazard ffs.

Very unrealistic issue :

Players from clubs like Lens or Montpellier won't move to Olympique Marseille or Lyonnais because the clubs are listed in the other or fierce rivals sections, this issue is present also in Italy where when you manage Inter you cannot transfer players from Sampdoria or Fiorentina, when in real life, players are even loaned between these clubs, see Andrea Poli, loaned from Sampdoria to Inter, try signing him when you manage Inter, it's impossible, this happens also in France and in almost every league, what a let-down, SI. In previous versions like FM10 or 09 this issue wasn't present. I hope it will be fixed.