higgins Posted December 23, 2010 Share Posted December 23, 2010 New Zealand 3-4-3 Yesterday I was reading this old article on zonal marking, it talks about New Zealand national team risky tactic, a weak team playing with a 3-4-3, Ricky Herbert tactic really impressed me during the last World cup and I think it deserves attention. Even if they didn't qualify for the knockout round, they finished their group stage unbeaten, some surprising performance come from them. Herbert used a not so common tactic, at least at this level, he employed 3 real strikers, not 2 winger beside a central advanced forward, these strikers had few defensive duties (they rarely put pressure on the opponent full-backs, for example) and stayed very close in a central position, creating problems in the heart of the penalty box with their aerial skills. So three upfront and three at the back, a risky asset that surely payed off last summer, if you consider the level of the players coach Herbert had at his disposal you could agree with me about that. Alberto Zaccheroni Thinking about the past I remenber the brilliant 3-4-3 played by Alberto Zaccheroni's Udinese from 1995 to 1998, an entertaining but formerly average team that reached an amazing 3rd place at the end of 1997/98 season, showing some impressive and well thought attacking moves. Zaccheroni (now Japan's coach) employed often a versatile attacking trio upfront: Poggi, Bierhoff (best Serie A scorer with 27 goals) and Marcio Amoroso, consistency, aerial dominance and flair, to put it simply. But now back to FM, after this brief intro I want to explain my aim here: create a flat 3-4-3 that could work for small/average teams in FM 11 I'd like to know your own experience with such a system, if any, and to discuss here about tactical ideas to develop a consistent tactic, I'll mainly use the tactics creator to build this one, maybe tweaking something manually if required to reach the desired balance. I know this is not a very popular tactical framework in FM but I think it could be a worthwhile experiment, comments and thoughts are welcome, of course. I decided to choose a newly promoted team to develop my 3-4-3, Blackpool. Balance is the key to build a successful 3-4-3, wingers role is vital here, they need to make the right movements while attacking or defending, if they remain to high on the pitch you will be exposed to counters on the flanks, if they stay too close to your flat back trio, they won't assure enough good passing options to launch your attacking moves, a fluid mentality framework should help in that sense. Other interesting choices regard what kind of attacking line to employ, what kind of roles you'll choose upfront, three target men like Frank Herbert or a more complex combination like Zaccheroni did for his Udinese side? You could easily see this system bring on lots of tactical challenges to be solved... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted December 24, 2010 Author Share Posted December 24, 2010 After some friendlies and some dealings on the market I came out with this asset, it's just a starting point, but here we are: I mixed up roles upfront as I wanted attackers to make different things, to challenge the opposite defensive line in several ways and to provide different passing options to my midfielders. My right flank is more attacking then the left one, the ball winner (Vaughan) in the middle of the pitch should provide cover when the right winger attacks Team settings: I built the tactic with the creator then I tweaked something to play the football I had in mind, my tactic is based on a high defensive line not to concede spaces between lines (defense and midfield), I'm aware it could be risky but playing without a dmc it's nearly an obliged choice. A tweaked passing system: The idea behind that was to reach as soon as possible my midfielders or attackers, then we could start to play more on the deck adopting very short passings. Creative freedom Central defenders don't need to be creative they have to be steady and consistent. Do you like long shots? I always found long shots to be quite unproductive, so I set them to rarely for every player, Charlie Adam apart. Soon I'll post a report about my first official match using the tactic, I'm going to have a difficult first game, away to Chelsea! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucatonix Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 I think setting your passing to that short is going to limit your passing options. Short passing is probably the way to go but since you are playing reasonably wide I suggest much closer to mixed. Either first notch of mixed passing down to maybe 3 or 4 notches below this should be enough to keep the passes on the deck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted December 24, 2010 Author Share Posted December 24, 2010 I think setting your passing to that short is going to limit your passing options. Short passing is probably the way to go but since you are playing reasonably wide I suggest much closer to mixed. Either first notch of mixed passing down to maybe 3 or 4 notches below this should be enough to keep the passes on the deck. Yep, I thought about that, the idea here would be to play first touch football, maybe I'm a bit too ambitious, but of course I'm ready to tweak my settings if I see that something doesn't work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted December 24, 2010 Author Share Posted December 24, 2010 My first official match of the season is going to be a tough one, away to Chelsea will be a serious test for my new tactic. Lineups Chelsea play their usual 4-5-1, here we have a central midfield trio vs. my two midfielders, then I'll have to face a lone striker formation with my flat back trio, of course my right and left midfielders will have to give a huge contribute to stop their marauding wingers. I started with the settings I showed in my opening post, no tweaks for now. 12' min. Chelsea are attacking, we have to withstand a heavy pressure and our shape is really compressed, but Malouda makes a wrong back-pass, Charlie Adam makes it first to the ball and intercepts it, he clearly sees Chelsea unbalanced and gives an interesting through ball for Griffiths, suddenly a counter-attack starts, Griffiths vs. Alex, my forward is quicker, beats his opponent and scores. Chelsea - Blackpool 0-1 29' another interesting move from Blackpool, my DCr (Baptiste) he's aware that my 2 central midfielders are well marked but his mixed passing let him try a long ball to DJ Campbell, he runs beating the offside trap and Ivanovic, his marker, only a great save from Cech avoid the 0-2 for us. By the way, look at Mikel position (the man in the middle of the pitch), he's not so useful there as he has not a man to pick out. 30' Keinan scores after a corner kick, have in mind that I'm not using any corner routine, just the default one. Chelsea - Blackpool 0-2 A surprising result so far, we're counterattacking them well. continue.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucatonix Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 I think one advantage of the 3 strikers is that you are ruining Chelsea's normal game plan of having attacking fullbacks or they would be destroyed by having a 3 on 2 for all your attacks. Mikel is also very cautious in attacking providing a lot of cover it seems from your screenshots and he is eager not to get too far forward into attacks meaning your midfield isn't too overrun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted December 24, 2010 Author Share Posted December 24, 2010 I think one advantage of the 3 strikers is that you are ruining Chelsea's normal game plan of having attacking fullbacks or they would be destroyed by having a 3 on 2 for all your attacks. Mikel is also very cautious in attacking providing a lot of cover it seems from your screenshots and he is eager not to get too far forward into attacks meaning your midfield isn't too overrun. Yes, Mikel is very cautious and plays in a holding position and Ivanovic is having problems to control Campbell, it seems there's room to be exploited between him and Terry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romanista. Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 an interesting formation, how do the wing players play? in FM10 they never attacked when you played with a 3-man defense and the attack suffered as a result of them constantly playing like fullbacks. and against chelsea did you play with the fluid attacking strategy or did you change to counter attack? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucatonix Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 It will be interesting to see how it fares against a 4-4-2 and the 4-4-1-1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted December 24, 2010 Author Share Posted December 24, 2010 ....continue 36' min. this screenie shows quite well the main problem when you play 3 at the back vs a lone striker, as you see I've got a 5 men defensive line here, Essien is passing the ball to Drogba, Keinan makes the wrong choice and decides to pick Drogba, he's dragged away and leaves a hole in our line..... Drogba with a through ball to Donovan, Bengtsson marks him too softly, meanwhile Keinan is out of position, we'll pay that soon.... Donovan has acres of space, he's free to cross and the ball reaches Essien who exploits the hole left by Keinan (still marking Drogba) and scores an easy goal. Chelsea - Blackpool 1-2 42' min. Donovan from the left with a free-kick and Terry is free to score with a header, a clear positional mistake, I'll have to address that. Chelsea - Blackpool 2-2 I think I was too ambitious, maybe when I was leading 2-0 I should have opted for a more cautious strategy, from attacking to control.....who knows? .....continue Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coentrao Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 Quite interesting and a very good presentation i must say.. will follow this thread closely! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucatonix Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 I feel what probably happened was that Chelsea went more attacking and gave their FBs and DM a little more freedom to go forward in attacks. This allows them to recycle possession more easily and control the game more easily since they could outnumber you in midfield: 5 to 2. Their FBs, DM and CMs to your CMs spelt trouble as they went more attacking. To counter this you should have either moved a CB to DM or brought your outside strikers to more AMR/AML or FR/FL to cover the FBs. You could also have switched to a 3-5-2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted December 24, 2010 Author Share Posted December 24, 2010 an interesting formation, how do the wing players play? in FM10 they never attacked when you played with a 3-man defense and the attack suffered as a result of them constantly playing like fullbacks. and against chelsea did you play with the fluid attacking strategy or did you change to counter attack? I saw them tracking back a lot, but it's too early to judge cause they have to withstand a heavy pressure in this match, so they played quite compressed. I didn't change anything from the settings you can see in my OP, I still employed a fluid attacking strategy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObaMartins09 Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 Essien's goal hardly exploits the fact that Keinan is marking Drogba. In fact surely it is Keinan's job to mark Drogba and close him down when he has the ball. Look at the cross from Donovan, you still have 4 players around Essien so it probably isn't as big a tactical problem as you think, more a player problem in that those 4 players were not good enough at deciding who blocks the cross/marks Essien. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted December 24, 2010 Author Share Posted December 24, 2010 Quite interesting and a very good presentation i must say.. will follow this thread closely! Thanks mate. I feel what probably happened was that Chelsea went more attacking and gave their FBs and DM a little more freedom to go forward in attacks. This allows them to recycle possession more easily and control the game more easily since they could outnumber you in midfield: 5 to 2. Their FBs, DM and CMs to your CMs spelt trouble as they went more attacking. To counter this you should have either moved a CB to DM or brought your outside strikers to more AMR/AML or FR/FL to cover the FBs. You could also have switched to a 3-5-2. I think so, but I don't like to make too many in game changes, when I fix something I like to make just little tweaks, trying to retain the original shape, as I dislike too much micro-management. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucatonix Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 Yes upon second viewing you even have midfielder covering for Keinan who should have picked up Essien. Plus atleast one of the other CBs should have picked him up or the back line should have tightened up to close the gap which Essien ran through. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted December 24, 2010 Author Share Posted December 24, 2010 Essien's goal hardly exploits the fact that Keinan is marking Drogba. In fact surely it is Keinan's job to mark Drogba and close him down when he has the ball. Look at the cross from Donovan, you still have 4 players around Essien so it probably isn't as big a tactical problem as you think, more a player problem in that those 4 players were not good enough at deciding who blocks the cross/marks Essien. It's possible, but watching the whole move I clearly saw Essien running through the hole left by Keinan, as Drogba was far from the box and in my opinion Keinan was out of time with his movement, too early or too late. Of course the players around Essien could have done better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucatonix Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 I've also been wondering about your 3 man defence. In attack do you really need 3 men staying back at all times and 2 midfielders holding station. I would say try giving a CB forward runs to join the midifield perhaps and then give a CM mixed forward runs to stagger your midfield a little. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted December 24, 2010 Author Share Posted December 24, 2010 I've also been wondering about your 3 man defence. In attack do you really need 3 men staying back at all times and 2 midfielders holding station. I would say try giving a CB forward runs to join the midifield perhaps and then give a CM mixed forward runs to stagger your midfield a little. Well, I was considering to stagger a bit my central midfield, but like they are now they act as a shield for my defense and it's not that bad, we'll see further on, maybe it could work for easier games. The idea regarding the centre-back would require a better central defender, quicker and with very good mental skills, otherwise it could be really, really dangerous. Thanks for your feedback. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucatonix Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 I can see what you mean but with 2 others staying back it could be worth a try against a poor team to see how it works. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted December 24, 2010 Author Share Posted December 24, 2010 .....continue 50' min. Mares, my right midfielder, sent off for a useless foul, I had to change DJ Campell for E. Grandin, now I'm playing with a strange 3-4-2, switched to control strategy too; 40 min. to be played for a ten men Blackpool... 80' min. another terrific counter from Blackpool while Chelsea are overloading to find a late winner, from Keinan to Griffiths who finds Avdic, Terry and Alex are a bit confused and Avdic (11 acc. 12 pace, so not the quickest...) runs away to score a great goal. Chelsea - Blackpool 2-3 85. min for the first time in the match Ivanovic put in the box a lethal cross (after DJ Campbell sub. he has more freedom, not having anyone to mark on that side) Drogba challenges Keinan and Rachubka (unconvincing, like a wax figure) for the ball and succeeds to score with a powerful header Final - Chelsea - Blackpool 3 - 3 !! A good match we could have won, however I'm fairly satisfied , my players have their weaknesses, but I saw some interesting things tactically, of course more tests are needed but we're going in the right direction, this 3-4-3 could work, we'll see vs. different opponents. Keep in touch and feel free to share your thoughts. Merry Xmas!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle_Sam Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 Watching the World Cup, I wondered if anyone would try and give New Zealand's system a go. Glad to see this thread. Also glad to see a thread that's a discussion, not just a download my tactic thread. I honestly believe that the AI has become so dynamic that plug-and-play tactics are almost obsolete. The CPU changes the way it plays against you constantly, so you have to alter your strategy to match. I'll follow this thread pretty close. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted December 25, 2010 Author Share Posted December 25, 2010 Watching the World Cup, I wondered if anyone would try and give New Zealand's system a go. Glad to see this thread. Also glad to see a thread that's a discussion, not just a download my tactic thread. I honestly believe that the AI has become so dynamic that plug-and-play tactics are almost obsolete. The CPU changes the way it plays against you constantly, so you have to alter your strategy to match.I'll follow this thread pretty close. Thanks bro, the plan here is to show weaknesses and strengths of 3-4-3 vs. other tactics, I hope other managers could try this kind of asset so to be able to compare how it works using different settings like tempo, width, d-line, passing system, marking etc.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wijnand fens Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 Do you have a Link, so we can test the tactic..... Merry Christmas!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ne1 Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 Hey i have started a game with Fiorentina, trying to make a 343 similar to yours. Have you made any considerations around your Deep lying playmaker - do you use playmaker in your team instructions and why have you short passing on him to, wouldnt it benefit more to make it mixed so he would have more options when he receives the ball? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted December 25, 2010 Author Share Posted December 25, 2010 Do you have a Link, so we can test the tactic.....Merry Christmas!! The tactic is a work in progress, so for now there's not a download link, of course you could easily reproduce my starting settings following my op, I'll keep you updated when and if I'll tweak something. Hey i have started a game with Fiorentina, trying to make a 343 similar to yours.Have you made any considerations around your Deep lying playmaker - do you use playmaker in your team instructions and why have you short passing on him to, wouldnt it benefit more to make it mixed so he would have more options when he receives the ball? As I said my first idea was to play first touch football, I just need to make some tests about my players passing ratio, then I'll probably tweak some of their settings. I already considered to give my central midfielder the chance to play a more expansive game, and regarding your other question, no playmaker in the team instructions panel. Keep us updated about your progress and good luck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathxxx Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 Great thread higgins and some good analysis and observations you're highlighting. My only problem however, is every time I try to implement three at the back, I get a nervous tick in my right eye and things all go horribly wrong! Certainly going to be keeping an eye on how you do though. You never know, one day I might have a moment of madness and try a back three again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted December 25, 2010 Author Share Posted December 25, 2010 Great thread higgins and some good analysis and observations you're highlighting.My only problem however, is every time I try to implement three at the back, I get a nervous tick in my right eye and things all go horribly wrong! Certainly going to be keeping an eye on how you do though. You never know, one day I might have a moment of madness and try a back three again. Thanks man, I understand what you're saying, 3 at the back could be an epic failure sometimes, but I liked to play 3-4-3 in previous FM/CM versions (not last year) and I thought it was time to give this a try, again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted December 25, 2010 Author Share Posted December 25, 2010 Blackpool - Wigan This time we'll play vs. a 4-5-1 with 2 defensive midfielders, after Chelsea another lone striker formation, just more defensive, they should be difficult to break in the middle, let's see what happened. We're going to adopt our usual tactic, no tweaks since last match. Have a look here, our shape when we're defending looks like a 5-2-3, with right and left midfielders dropping back to join my flat back three. Notice the position of their lone striker (Boselli) very wide on the left, of course he's waiting to cut in, our 3 central defenders are idle at the moment. 42' min. but while we're attacking our flankers provide the required width stretching Wigan defense, here Bengtsson after a run hugging the touchline crosses a dangerous ball to Campbell, who was cutting into the box, a penalty will be awarded. Admire Wigan cautious 7-men defensive line, very difficult to break without men on the wings. 68' min. Another interesting highlight, after Goncalves stopped Wigan's attack , Avdic, our supporting target man, recovers the ball and acting as an advanced playmaker quickly gives a through ball to DJ Campbell on the left, at the end of that move we'll lead 2-0 thanks to an own goal. Goncalves has two easier passes, two team mates, Adam and Vaughan, are closer than Advic, but his attacking mentality and his passing settings (mixed) advises him to try a more direct pass. A great counter, Wigan were trying to equalise but we caught them really unbalanced. A target man in a support role with decent passing, anticipation and creativity could be really useful, as he will be often an interesting passing option for your defenders. 80' a stunning strike from DJ Campbell closes the match. Blackpool - Wigan 3-0 (Final) continue... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle_Sam Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 The only 3 back system I've used in FM11 was with wingbacks. I know that on FM10 is down right impossible to get ML/R's to act like wide midfielders or wingers, do you find that to be the case in FM11? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted December 25, 2010 Author Share Posted December 25, 2010 The only 3 back system I've used in FM11 was with wingbacks. I know that on FM10 is down right impossible to get ML/R's to act like wide midfielders or wingers, do you find that to be the case in FM11? From what I saw so far I could say that ML/R's play more like wingbacks than real wingers/wide midfielders , but have in mind I gave them a supporting role and to be honest I'm satisfied with their attacking contribute so far, but I'll post more about that soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucatonix Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 To be honest I think a 4-5-1 formation is the strongest against a 3-4-3 because they should overload you in midfield. I think the tactic might also struggle against 5 man midfields but perhaps do better against 4 man midfields where your opponents won't have such a numerical advantage in the centre. You could counter this by.dropping the mentality of one or two of the strikers to add some support to your midfield Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted December 26, 2010 Author Share Posted December 26, 2010 To be honest I think a 4-5-1 formation is the strongest against a 3-4-3 because they should overload you in midfield. I think the tactic might also struggle against 5 man midfields but perhaps do better against 4 man midfields where your opponents won't have such a numerical advantage in the centre. You could counter this by.dropping the mentality of one or two of the strikers to add some support to your midfield They should, but they didn't so far ( at least in these first games), probably because my 2 central midfieders play quite deep, above all Adam, so he has time and space to pass the ball, then my target man often drops back and help the midfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle_Sam Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 I think with 5 players in defending roles, you could set your wingers to attacking roles. My guess is they will still defend the flanks but will get up the pitch a little better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted December 26, 2010 Author Share Posted December 26, 2010 I think with 5 players in defending roles, you could set your wingers to attacking roles. My guess is they will still defend the flanks but will get up the pitch a little better. I could try in the future, when my players will have a better knowledge of the tactic and team blending will have reached higher levels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeEp Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 pitch size? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfiress Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 I tried this little experiment with Porstmouth in the CH, i had a 6 games winning streak in my first 6 games, nugent and utake were unstoppable. soon as i lost the first game after a corner kick in the 94 minute, i lost the other 3 games in row. i dunno what's rly going, i havent been able to find the corect OI to counter a 4-5-1 formation.. those are the ones that really pwn me :/ through balls :/ i think what i need to do is make the central dc abit more stopper like.. to rebound any through balls :/ cus if the def line is up, a through ball behind my 3 defenders, wich arent rly pacey is a killer :/ , besides that, my gk has poor 1 on 1 skill and poor rushing out :/ anyway this 3-4-3 works good attacking wise imo , i got alot of assists from all my 3 strikers , utaka crosses like mad and kitson and nugent are in the box to finish, thats rly nice, and the deep lying playmaker, signed on free mind you, gives some nice long passes over the opposition defence. anyway, i need a way to improve the marking for my defenders. i also use wingbacks as wingers, they work ok . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted December 26, 2010 Author Share Posted December 26, 2010 I tried this little experiment with Porstmouth in the CH, i had a 6 games winning streak in my first 6 games, nugent and utake were unstoppable.soon as i lost the first game after a corner kick in the 94 minute, i lost the other 3 games in row. i dunno what's rly going, i havent been able to find the corect OI to counter a 4-5-1 formation.. those are the ones that really pwn me :/ through balls :/ i think what i need to do is make the central dc abit more stopper like.. to rebound any through balls :/ cus if the def line is up, a through ball behind my 3 defenders, wich arent rly pacey is a killer :/ , besides that, my gk has poor 1 on 1 skill and poor rushing out :/ anyway this 3-4-3 works good attacking wise imo , i got alot of assists from all my 3 strikers , utaka crosses like mad and kitson and nugent are in the box to finish, thats rly nice, and the deep lying playmaker, signed on free mind you, gives some nice long passes over the opposition defence. anyway, i need a way to improve the marking for my defenders. i also use wingbacks as wingers, they work ok . Uhmm..I don't have pacey centre-backs and I didn't experience the through balls issue, so if you win six in a row and then lost 3 I'm not sure this could be tactics related problem, maybe some wrong team talk? By the way, I never use OI. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted December 26, 2010 Author Share Posted December 26, 2010 pitch size? The usual Blackpool size 112 x 74 yds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfiress Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 yes higgins, its prolly because, i changed my half time talks :/ fm2011 pwned me there no ois.. interesting anyway, i should juse weaker foot on most forwards and dangerous mcs and i close down wingers. no hard tackling tho Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted December 26, 2010 Author Share Posted December 26, 2010 Tomorrow I'll post the analysis of my next two matches, where I have to cope with two different 4-4-2, one more offensive, away to Bolton, and one a bit more defensive, Newcastle at home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojojojo101 Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 This tactic seems intresting and as im a big fan of using the more unusual tactics im looking to do some adaptation of this to make it more like my style. Was wondering If you had tried this with your more central defender being used as a ball-playing CB. In your pictures from the Wigan game Keinan seems very deep for my liking. I'd maybe like to see one CB step up into midfield to give an extra passing option when you have possesion (slightly deeper and in between Mares/Vaughn in your picture for reference) This would obviously allow for better ball retention in the final third aswell as allowing Mares the chance to push wider, maybe making a run down the right to strech Wigan's defense. I expect that you would need someone technically proficient though aswell as having good positioning/pace to get back in position in your flat back 3 if/when possesion is lost. I guess it would be possible to play him as a Libero but that would rremove the 'flat' back 3 staple. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted December 27, 2010 Author Share Posted December 27, 2010 This tactic seems intresting and as im a big fan of using the more unusual tactics im looking to do some adaptation of this to make it more like my style.Was wondering If you had tried this with your more central defender being used as a ball-playing CB. In your pictures from the Wigan game Keinan seems very deep for my liking. I'd maybe like to see one CB step up into midfield to give an extra passing option when you have possesion (slightly deeper and in between Mares/Vaughn in your picture for reference) This would obviously allow for better ball retention in the final third aswell as allowing Mares the chance to push wider, maybe making a run down the right to strech Wigan's defense. I expect that you would need someone technically proficient though aswell as having good positioning/pace to get back in position in your flat back 3 if/when possesion is lost. I guess it would be possible to play him as a Libero but that would rremove the 'flat' back 3 staple. The difference between a ball playing defender and a central defender is that the first one will have more creative freedom and through ball set to often, I think I would need a more skilled defender than Keinan, however to obtain what you were talking about, to step up into midfield, he'd need to have higher forward runs instructions, a bit dangerous in my opinion, with the defenders I have at the moment. But it could be worthwhile to try with better defenders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted December 27, 2010 Author Share Posted December 27, 2010 Bolton - Blackpool click for full match stats My after action report continues with this away game to Bolton, we'll employ our usual 3-4-3 but this time I'm going to chenge something, Charlie Adam (passing 16, anticipation 14, creativity 17 , flair 16 and decision 10), my deep lying playmaker will have mixed passing settings so to have more passing options, he's my best passer and during last games he had an impressive completion ratio, this will add more unpredictability to my midfield. Then Chris Wood will be my target man upfront instead of Avdic, with the same settings of course. Let's see how a four men defense cope with my 3-4-3, in this screenie you could see some positional mistakes made by Bolton's players. Wood plays with his back to goal, as his ppm and his role suggests him to do, and makes a back pass to Adam, my playmaker, who has lots of choices: - on the left Bengtsson is unmarked and could easily receive a pass while he's running towards the byline. - in the middle there are two options, DJ Campbell and Griffiths (unmarked too). Adam (notice that no one is closing him down..) chooses a through ball in the middle, Campbell he's quicker than his markers and connects well with Adam's through ball, 1-0 Blackpool. A sort of Rocky horror picture show from Bolton's defense, however my creative midfielder had 3 good options, this is always an ideal scenario for a playmaker. This is a Bolton's attacking move, similar to mine, their midfielder is passing the ball to their target man, Davies, who wil immediately play a through ball to Elmander, on the right. As you see my high defensive line is in action here, my left centre back, Goncalves ( 16 pace, 16 acceleration) is the quickest man of my line and he tries to put some pressure on Elmander, trying to anticipate him. Playing with a high defensive line there's more space to cover for Elmander before he could shoot and my keeper has more time to rush out and close his shooting angle (this a real football rule that is well reproduced in FM), then Goncalves is quicker than Elmander and can close his shooting angle further on. Rachubka will stop Elmander's shot easily. Playing with a flat back trio you should always have, at least, one pacey defender and you should use him in DC (left) or DC (right) spot, so to cover the central defender that, as seen here and in other examples, will often advance to pick out the attacker playing deeper on the pitch. DJ Campell's hat-trick gave us a deserved 3-0 win in this match. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaşar Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 higgins can we try or test your interesting tactic ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted December 27, 2010 Author Share Posted December 27, 2010 higginscan we try or test your interesting tactic ? There's no download available at the moment as I'm still making some tweaks while my game goes on, you could easily reproduce it following what I wrote in my first post and then make the tweaks I'm suggesting when I report about my matches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle_Sam Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 higginscan we try or test your interesting tactic ? You said this in my thread iirc, all you need to create the tactic yourself is in the the thread, mostly in the first post or two. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaşar Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 You said this in my thread iirc, all you need to create the tactic yourself is in the the thread, mostly in the first post or two. yes i did it coz ım really try something different . thats all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucatonix Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 Do you think you could show your other goals as well, and glad to see you took my advice on increasing Adam's passing range and looks like it really paid off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted December 27, 2010 Author Share Posted December 27, 2010 Do you think you could show your other goals as well, and glad to see you took my advice on increasing Adam's passing range and looks like it really paid off. Surely,the third was a penalty, this is the second, Campbell scored after a cross from Griffiths, Wood deflected the ball before Campbell's shot. [video=youtube;an74pP8_F70] By the way, Adam played a good match with an assist, so his new passing setting seems to work well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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