Why are the fans so stupid in this game?

[bolulu]

I got promotion last season (Aachen from L2 to L1) & board have set season expectations to "achieve safe position in league".
So, about 6 games into the season (win some, lose some) I am in the top half of table & believe the team is doing ok. It annoys the buggery out of me though, because after every game that I feel pretty happy with the result (just got a creditable 2-2 draw away @ Hoffenheim) the fans are constantly dissapointed.
What do they expect? Where are they coming from? I am only mandated to survive in this league, so any away draw should get some sort of satisfied acclamation from knowing fans; not condemnation! Who are these arrogant, spoilt, stupid bunch that follow my team? It is really discouraging!
Don't consider this a bug, but it certainly smacks of a fault in the programming. Fans should have a more reasonable response to the team's more than acceptable performance, especially when it is totally within board requirements.
Anyone else troubled by this?

[ArsenalFan7]

Fans have always been stupid on FM

[phnompenhandy]

Too true. Actually, their CA and PA is 1 - so what you expect? Next year I'd like to editor to enable me to make my wife my fans' spokesperson - she's far more knowledgeable about the game.

[Robioto]

I started ignoring that TBH. I got Chelsea in the FA Cup at Stamford Bridge with my Alfreton Team while in the Conference North, I lost 2-0 and the fans were 'slightly concerned' by the result. :S

[Crazy Billy-Jay Jones]

I started ignoring that TBH. I got Chelsea in the FA Cup at Stamford Bridge with my Alfreton Team while in the Conference North, I lost 2-0 and the fans were 'slightly concerned' by the result. :S

A similar sort of thing happened with me at Swindon. Managed to get all the way to the quarter finals of the League Cup (No mean feat considering we were barely in the League One playoffs, and the game seemed intent on giving us nothing but away ties against teams in the leagues above ours), played out of our skins at Old Trafford but were outclassed and lost 4-2. The fans? "Disappointed".

[Woodmansee]

It's the fans, and the board. They expect way to much from some teams.

[Swindon69]

A classic example of this happened to me in Spain. I was managing Sestao in the 3rd tier playing away to Barcelona in the Cup. I drew 1-1 and my fans were disappointed.

[Black_Waltz]

Are fans logical in reality?

[Xcel]

Its been like this for a few years, its dumb and should be ignored. No matter who your playing, they only care whether you lost or won and not how you played. So their happy with a win and not with a loss, and there is very little in between.

[Wavelberry]

The fan interaction still seems to black and white no matter who you're playing. It has slightly improved, but usually if you lose or draw at home (no matter who) the fans are angry, while a draw away at the bottom club might mean that they're pleased.

I like that now last minute equalisers are noted and make the fans happy, but still needs tweaking.

Also fans are stupid though.

[robertcornell68]

I think the fans a a bit less stupid than last year.

It would make more sense if their reactions were based on league position rather than reputation, and they accepted that in some games keeping the score respectable is the best you can hope for.

[MrPompey]

Of course reputation comes into it - Thats the expactation of all fans real or FM. It does need to take a few factors into account:

Club finances
Time the Manager is in role e,g, hasn't just started etc
Club reputation, especially now as this is a dynamic attribute e.g. the expectation of Liverpool for a top 4 place must be an overstatement irl these days
Games in hand - You could be 3rd with games in hand yet get silly comments made in game because you are 3rd and not 1st. Winning these games could put you comfortably in the 1st

[pb1uk]

Agreed. With Stockport in the Prem in 5 seasons I lose away 2-0 at Man City. They've won the league the previous season. They have players on a weekly wage double what my whole budget is and the supporters were disappointed. Did they really expect me to get anything?!?!?

[stevvy]

I have a better idea. Ditch the fans opinions. In all honesty, it's basically broken. So ditch it unless it can be sorted properly, and made remotely realistic (and not just for the 1st season, but over the course of say a 50yr game).

[dontask]

im playing as dundee united, had to play bayern munich away who had cristiano ronaldo in their side. we played 65 mins with 10 men and lost 3-2. my fans were slightly concerned!!! what result did they expect???

[ommerson]

Same goes for expectations before a game. I was 3rd from bottom and had to play the league leaders away. I was expected to win it comfortably... Turned out I did (1-3), but that's not the point.

Fan reactions afterwards seem to be random in most cases and mostly dont make any sense. Narrowly went out of the cup with my 4th tier side (3-2) away to 1st tier NEC. Dissapointed the fans.

Talking about fan reaction. I only have a handful of away-fans usually and 4 out of five seem to always have their hands in their hands during the entire match. Okay, I'm third from bottom, so it is a bit worrysome at times, but heads in hands all game... ;-)

[Chris Waddle]

I completely agree. I've just started a new game as manager of Sheff Wed. I'm just over half way through the season and am dominating the league; are you reading this Alan (I make Sam Allardyce look like an all out attacking god, style of manager) Irvine?

We have been on a great run of form and drew Man Ure at home in the FA cup. Funny how I drew them after slagging off several of their stars (yes it's unprofessional, yes it annoys my players - but I just can't resist doing it). Anyway I didn't expect anything from the game, said so in the press conference, put 11 men behind the ball, hit them on the counter attack and won 1-0 (Heff with a header 82mins). Needless to say, I was dancing about the room. There is nothing I like more than beating the scum (in game).

The fans reaction - Disappointed that we let the opposition have so many opportunities. What bloody planet are they on? I think my words were along the lines of 'screw you then'. Good job I hadn't been drinking, I may well have found myself resigning immediately.

[eddiesenior]

Does anyone have an example of the fans opinion actually effecting their job? i.e. getting fired with the board happy but the fans not?

To add my almost identical story, in my last game I was 1-0 down against league leaders Wigan (championship), my Orient team are predicted 14th and sitting in 12th, I score an 85th minute equaliser and the fans areeeeeeeee 'slightly disappointed', no reason given, they're just not happy!

[MrPompey]

IRL Fans are disappointed when the lose regardless of the opposition. Its the justification that maybe different. I see no difference url to be honest

[Jord @S]

IRL Fans are disappointed when the lose regardless of the opposition. Its the justification that maybe different. I see no difference url to be honest

Have you read some of the circumstances? Like Dundee losing 3-2 against Bayern Munich with Cristiano Ronaldo, or Stockport losing 2-0 to Man City while City have players earning double his whole squads wage per week? I mean sure it's dissapointing but in these circumstances it's more of a 'it could've been worse scenario'.

Alan (I make Sam Allardyce look like an all out attacking god, style of manager) Irvine?

Brilliant!

[fergalb]

I'm getting the game on christmas day so I'don't know what to say

[bolulu]

The press have similar misguided views (as the fans) on what is a perfectly acceptable performance!
Now 6th in the league, doing well in a season the board require that I only need to survive, Aachen get a creditable 1-1 away draw against strong opposition but, according to press reports, "The manager has no right to be happy with this performance...."
It's annoying to say the least. IMHO the fans should comment on those games when there is a clear case for disappointment, or joy. These fatuous comments on closely contested drawn games show clearly that the game fans are simply out of touch with the reality of what is going on on the pitch.

[x42bn6]

IRL Fans are disappointed when the lose regardless of the opposition. Its the justification that maybe different. I see no difference url to be honest

Havant & Waterlooville looked fairly delighted when they lost to Liverpool. The Liverpool players even went out for a drink with them afterwards.

The fans will be disappointed, but this should be vastly outweighted by a sense of pride and happiness that they exceeded expectations and performed really well, even if the result was disappointing.

[Face_Plant]

Who are these arrogant, spoilt, stupid bunch that follow my team? It is really discouraging!
Don't consider this a bug, but it certainly smacks of a fault in the programming. Fans should have a more reasonable response to the team's more than acceptable performance, especially when it is totally within board requirements.
Anyone else troubled by this?

Ask any fan what they want, and it is the richest dude on the planet to pump zillions into their club to win everything in sight, and they want it yesterday.

The reality of fans unrealistic nature is pretty well reflected here me thinks.

[betts1411]

Given the fact that 90% of fans are absoloute numpties they may aswell just get rid of it all together anyway. Just had a 1-1 home draw managing Coventry (media prediction 20th) Vs Nottingham forest (media prediction 1st) who are currently top , fans are disappointed. Next game is away at Sheff Utd (media prediction 8th) who are now top. Get a 1-1 draw after going 1-0 down and fans are slightly concerned. rofl. Either way a pretty productive season being 12th with 3 games left, 2 of the bottom 3 to play

[lhinchliffe]

They clearly come from the Mike Ashley school - were a 1-1 draw with Chelski is not acceptable! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYpWlUTf0mU

[betts1411]

Scratch that 1-1 away draw at top of the league ffs, cheers for a crash dump!!!!!

[StormenDK]

IRL Fans are disappointed when the lose regardless of the opposition. Its the justification that maybe different. I see no difference url to be honest

That is ridiculous :|

I am a big fan of a danish (currently) lower league team. A few seasons ago (before they went bankrupt and got relegated three levels) they were in the 2nd tier, and we had to play against FC Copenhagen (champions I believe at the time) in the cup. Since it was winter and we had no heating or lighting in the local stadium, we played in their stadium. So effectively an away game.

Did we expect to lose?? .. sure ... might even be a big loss. We eventually lost 3-1 (after getting an equalizer, which sent our fans into raptures). Were we sad?? .. of course, we don't like losing. Were we disappointed in the manager and the team?? .. no friggin' way. We loved them for fighting, and not getting slaughtered. And we still speak of that game with pride, especially as it was the Quarter Final.

In FM we would probably have been disappointed with the lack of chances we created, or letting the opposition have too much possession. Makes no sense in many cases.

[Bicycle]

I've just learnt to ignore this part of the game. If they ever fix it I probably wouldn't even notice.

[Tulley11]

IRL Fans are disappointed when the lose regardless of the opposition. Its the justification that maybe different. I see no difference url to be honest

Do you ever attend football matches? When we lost to Tottenham I was hardly dissapointed.

[manworker]

Managing Hearts I drew Inter in the fourth qualifying round of the Europa League, my board expectations are that i learn from the experience.

The away leg I lose 2-0. and the home leg I lost 2-1.

I am extremely proud of that one goal that i scored despite being manhandled the whole game, because my team was way outclassed and i had no hope of scoring or stopping them from scoring. all of the players i the Inter squad make more than my highest paid player who is on $6,600 p/w.

I am happy with the result, the board doesnt care how it turned out and the fans are slightly concerned. Why? My defense played their hearts out, and the rest of the team played well considering how outclassed they all were

[Robert the Spud]

I(Spurs) beat Barca away at the nou camp 1-0, fans were only satisfied.

But if i lose to chelsea in the league cup fielding youngsters they are devastated.

Fans are stupid in this game, but then again they are stupid in real life. Just watch Sky sports news when they are interviewing the fans(esp.liverpool ones)

[TSH]

I(Spurs) beat Barca away at the nou camp 1-0, fans were only satisfied.

But if i lose to chelsea in the league cup fielding youngsters they are devastated.

Fans are stupid in this game, but then again they are stupid in real life. Just watch Sky sports news when they are interviewing the fans(esp.liverpool ones)

Fans may generally be stupid, but if Spurs beat Barca 0-1 at the Nou Camp they will be thrilled. They certainly won't be devastated if in the next week they lose in the LC.

Fans module in the game is not working properly, but that always happens in the game. SI just don't care to fix it or they simply can't make it work.

Just ignore it.

[Dekker2]

Do any of you actually look at the confidence bars, instead of the comments?
If you put in a decent performance but lose to Man Utd, or whatever other examples you've all been citing, your fan bar will go down to like 49%, maybe 45% at the lowest.
That's negligible. It'll say that they're slightly disappointed, but it's more like they're nonplussed.

It just means that a loss will never contribute to your reputation at the club (because anything over 50% actively encourages your board to maintain your stay at the club) but if it's above 45% it will not exactly detract from your board confidence.

If West Brom played 5 games next month, against Man Utd, Chelsea, Tottenham, Man City and Arsenal and lost them all but put in decent performances, it would not be used as a reason to keep the manager (and anything over 50% confidence is just that - a reason to keep the manager), but it wouldn't be held against him too much, like the drubbings that earn you 10% confidence do: so >40% but <50% is a perfect in-game level.

Maybe in a cup run, where you play teams actually outside your division, then fans should be actively happy with you losing a match (ie a gutsy extra-time loss to a team two divisions above) because it shows encouraging signs of your ability to compete at a higher level; but within the division, games that don't earn you points are not a reason not to sack you, if you can follow the double negative. And to get a >50% on a confidence bar, then you have to be doing something that makes it harder for a boss to sack you.

There is stuff that needs to be adjusted, because fans don't make allowances for injury crises, or when one side has rested their players, (this can work for or against the player) but the general idea works fine.
The comments could be spruced up a bit too, but SI have always focused more on mechanics than the presentation - when they left it as a mass of sliders and spreadsheets, people used their imagination, but now that there's a half-hearted attempt to translate things into comon parlance, people just get confused by the text, and never look at the underlying mechanics.

[MidnightSoul]

The problem is that the confidence bar doesn't always stay around 40-50% when you get a loss.... I'm R Madrid and my opponent is PSG on a CL last group match. There's no point in winning because I'm already the group winner with 15 points, while PSG is 2nd and has 8. I fielded eight 19-20 y/o just to let them have some fun and I loss 2-0 away.

My fans are devastated and gave me a 2% match confidence... I understand that there's a big reputation difference between the two of us and my team is considered as clear favorite (if I had fielded my 1st team). Now, my board and fans expect me to make amend for that loss. But IRL, you can see that Man U or Barca not fielding their top players in those matches, and if they loses, you can just say "oh well"...

This also always happen when I'm already the league winner with 2 or 3 games to spare, and if I fielded my U19s squad to get them match experience, my fans always get disappointed when I lose or devastated when I lose to a low rep team. And if I lose to Barca, my fierce rival, for a meaningless match, then they are always devastated. That's somewhat understandable but still, my thought is that they should only be disappointed, dissatisfied, etc because the title is already in the bag.

Sometimes, even when i win 3-0 or 4-0 the fans is just satisfied. Unless I'm pulling off 7-0 8-0 result, they aren't going to be very very happy.

I'm thinking FM is calculating the expectation based on reputation difference alone for normal teams. And they'll weight it more if it's up against a fierce rival.

But I'd agree with Dekker2 that these confidence wouldn't result in my sacking at all. My overall board confidence is still standing at "untouchable" status, so I can simply ignore that but what I'm saying is that I hope the fans can be more understanding on these results, and stop expecting a win on every single game.

Here're some ideas though to improve the current confidence calculation:

Since AI doesn't know who are my 1st team and my reserves, so here's a scenario:

1. If a team is already qualified or winner of a group system, maybe there should be a press conference question pop up and asking if I'm planning to make changes to my 1st team squad and gives youngster a chance.
2. If I say "yes, we will try out the youngsters and rest most of the 1st team", then the confidence should stay around 40-50% when we lose by 1 or 2 goal difference. If we lose by 7-0 8-0, then to heck with it... it's not just the fan, I'll also be devastated lol
3. If I say "No, we don't plan to do change our squad and planning on destroying the opponent, and make their lives miserable", then the confidence should be calculated like it has already been.

Here's a different scenarion:
1. If it's a cup match and our opponent is 1 or 2 tier above us, the team should be given more merit. Depending on the stage of the cup, the fans should definitely be more understandable to the result.
2. If it's a first or second round of the cup and the team crashed out, sure... the fans has the right to be disappointed.
3. If the manager managed to carry the team into quarter final or semi final of a cup game from a lower league, and lose to a top tier-ed team, the fans should be more forgiving. If it's only a 1-0 2-0 loss, the fans should still satisfied with the overall cup run and agree with the result.

Here's another scenario:
1. Depending on the media prediction and board expectation, the match confidence should adjust dynamically.
2. If the media predict us to be relegated and the board just want to avoid relegation, the fans shouldn't be very disappointed when we lose by a close margin to a top team (e.g., Barca vs Levante match the other day on Barca ground... Levante just parked the bus for the entire first half, simply expecting for a draw. When they lose 2-1 as a final result against Barca, I don't think their fans will be disappointed at all, because a draw on Barca ground is a happy result and a 1 goal margin is also a good result IMO. I'm not Levante's fan so I don't say for themselves, but I still think they really fight off Barca anyway)

And lastly, the current FM already has "Best Eleven" implemented already. The AI can simply takes those best eleven + substitutes, I'm pretty sure the AI can figure out if the team is fielding 1st team or reserves for a match. That could possibly takes out the need to ask in press conference But this idea will be tough though to implement because there's always the unexpected and injuries...

Edit: Just for an update on my loss to PSG.. my coaching meeting is now saying that we have a tendency to become complacent against lower rep teams. I don't know how they get it but it's mid December and we are having a perfect season... and won every single matches so far except the last one...

[Chongtom]

Agree. Credible results often get a 'slightly concerned'

[busngabb]

The problem is the fans bits are really poorly worded. What they should have is a 'long term' and 'short term' split. So instead of saying "The fans were slightly concerned by the 1-1 away draw at Chelsea (When playing as a lower rep side)" it should say something like, "The fans thought the result at Chelsea was very credible, but are slightly concerned about the progress the club is making".

[Dekker2]

This also always happen when I'm already the league winner with 2 or 3 games to spare, and if I fielded my U19s squad to get them match experience, my fans always get disappointed when I lose or devastated when I lose to a low rep team. And if I lose to Barca, my fierce rival, for a meaningless match, then they are always devastated. That's somewhat understandable but still, my thought is that they should only be disappointed, dissatisfied, etc because the title is already in the bag.

If you read my post, I think you'll see that I never agreed with of your points (the AI's crapness at realising when you are wise to rest players, as your example in the CL shows) but I thought, or rather I know that they removed the issue of fans expecting results after the league is already won in FM10, certainly by the time of the last patch - is it back again? Or were you citing an example from an earlier FM game?
I'd hate to think they were going backwards in in developing this feature.

3. If the manager managed to carry the team into quarter final or semi final of a cup game from a lower league, and lose to a top tier-ed team, the fans should be more forgiving. If it's only a 1-0 2-0 loss, the fans should still satisfied with the overall cup run and agree with the result.

There's a separate confidence bar for measuring your overall performance in the cup - the competition confidence bar. The game-by-game confidence bars are there to measure your recent form. If you lost in the semi-finals of the cup during a 10 match slump, the fans wouldn't really be perked up, until you translated that into points - but they would acknowledge, with a more long-term view, the achievement of getting them that far through the cup in the first place.

Sometimes, even when i win 3-0 or 4-0 the fans is just satisfied. Unless I'm pulling off 7-0 8-0 result, they aren't going to be very very happy.

Barca win 3-0 every week. Whilst their fans are happy, I'm sure, I doubt they were dancing in the streets. The 5-0 over Real? Of course.
But 3-0 against Racing? Well done and on to the next game.
If Man Utd had beaten Stoke 3-0, I would've thought "job well done", not "wow, that was breathtaking," as I did during the 7-1 against Blackburn. And when Utd only won 2-1, I was happy with a solid win, but disappointed that it wasn't a more comfortable 3-1 or 4-1 scoreline.

When Newcastle win 4-0, I'm sure they're delighted, but the top clubs of the league begin to expect to pick up a few 4-0 victories every season. And if you turned your team into a super-team, then they'll expect a lot (see Barca).

2. If the media predict us to be relegated and the board just want to avoid relegation, the fans shouldn't be very disappointed when we lose by a close margin to a top team (e.g., Barca vs Levante match the other day on Barca ground... Levante just parked the bus for the entire first half, simply expecting for a draw. When they lose 2-1 as a final result against Barca, I don't think their fans will be disappointed at all, because a draw on Barca ground is a happy result and a 1 goal margin is also a good result IMO. I'm not Levante's fan so I don't say for themselves, but I still think they really fight off Barca anyway)

This already happens. If you lose to a team a lot higher than you, you'll just get into that >40% - <50% corridor that I alreayd mentioned last post. It's only if you get stuffed by a really bad scoreline, especially if it's at home, that you'll really see their wrath. It might need tweaking, but the idea's already there.

[nbrethe]

I'm top of the league with 3 games to go, 3 points ahead of Burnley. I lose heavily at home to QPR 3-0, and Burnley pull level on points. The fans are satisfied with the result. Eh?

[aderow]

Fans have always been stupid on FM

This. AI interaction have not been as good as they could be.

[Sussex Hammer]

Thought I would bump this as I have just had a classic. 3rd season with West Ham. Came 4th in Second season so have made it through to Group stage of Champions League. 3rd in the Premier League at present and beat Marseille in my first Champions League Group game. Next game away at Barcelona. We lose 1-0 but it's fairly even and I even have better possession and more CCC's but to be fair Barcelona sneaked it. After the game the fans are "Slightly concerned at the result". I had to laugh!!!

[Elliot Allagash]

Sort this out please

[roxy]

another stupid thing I've just discovered about fans: I bought a very cool 16 year old boy with PA 181 for just 1M. But... I bought the poor thing from RIVALS!! and fans keep moaning about in EVERY board confidence update: "fans are concerned that you bought a player from rivals"!! They cannot find anything better to moan about? Who cares?? big deal.. Comon, he is just a kid!!! Besides, they should be happy that we stole a hot prospect from rivals! Ugh...

[deltablue]

Haven't looked at the specific messages in-game for ages given how they sould just be ignored but as I remember it it's not so much the result as things like being disappointed at giving them loads of chances or being happy they we made loads ourselves.